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WF4EVER
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:07 PM
Pagliacci, I'm just too lazy to look for your thread about Justine's retirement from the AO Open, but I've realized that on the men's side Djokovic retired in the QF against Nadal with illness and now Nalbandian has retired from the SF against Roger with issues (can't say what was wrong with him because the commentators don't know either).

I have yet to hear Djokovic get flack for retiring from the QF, which IMO is a big match, for him his biggest yet. I would be shocked if Nalby got any because the excuse has already been stated that he must really be bothered by whatever's wrong with him because he wouldn't retire from such a big match (SF).

Yet Justine got so much shit for retiring from the FINALS of OZ, a title she has won before and was in a position to win (because she was in the finals). It was useless defending that to people who just hate Justine or were looking for a reason to hate her.

Personally I am not a die-hard fan of Justine's; I love her game and I love her work ethic but she has admittedly done some questionable things in the past which have brought her reputation into disrepute. But to think that a four-time GS champion would pull out of a Championship match because she was getting badly beaten is ridiculous, especially someone of Justine's mental fortitude.

I think Justine was treated extremely unfairly considering how important winning a Slam is to any person and in particular to her, because she would have added another to her collection.

Frankly I don't know what Amelie was so upset about because she won, whether she won by default or not isn't her problem. Bottomline is she won.

But it's just so funny that Justine gets criticized from pillar to post by commentators and fans alike for retiring when she felt she couldn't continue in a CHAMPIONSHIP FINAL, but the same does not extend to the men and they have been retiring in lesser rounds.

My opinion about Justine's retirement in AO will never change: I think she retired because she felt she couldn't play anymore and that seems fair to me, at least there was no drama like her puking up the court and stretching out for back massages, taking bathroom breaks, etc. She knew there was nothing more that could be done for her so she retired. I don't know how anyone can fathom it being an easy thing to give up an opportunity to win another major. Totally ridiculous.

azmad_88
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:10 PM
i have to say u r right..
im VERY sure justine wants that AO as bad as anyone else...and she would have faught hard like she did in those QF and SF if she wants it..
its stupid to think she wanted to retire for something not serious...maybe she just couldnt play and thats it i guess...

mc8114
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:13 PM
I think Nalby's retirement was for real not some excuse, he was not movin' well at all in the 3rd set.

selyoink
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:14 PM
Personally I'm not a fan of retiring in any match but especially the latter stages of a grand slam. If the player has broke his ankle or something like that then of course they have to retire. But I think Justine should have finished the match, as I think Djokovic and Nalbandian should have finished as well. I don't know what their pains were but they should be a able to tough it out in my opinion. I don't question their desires to win but I do question there toughness some.

azmad_88
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:20 PM
if justine would have continued that match and win it(somehow), wouldnt some people be saying she used it as a time to break mauresmo's momentum or to slow things down...

man people just have something to say all the time

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:22 PM
The difference is that (1) Henin was in a grand slam final and (2) there was nothing apparently wrong with her. Djokovic fell in a previous game, obviously hurting his back. Think back to the earlier matches of Amelie at the AO. No one gave Kim Clijsters shit for retiring in the SF vs. Amelie...because she was in obvious stress and it was not the final. There was nothing preventing Justine from playing and finishing the match. She just didn't want to because she was going to lose.

SF

FedExpress
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:24 PM
I think Nalby's retirement was for real not some excuse, he was not movin' well at all in the 3rd set.

Yes that's true. I saw the match. Too bad that they couldn't play until the end.

Justine Fan
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:32 PM
The difference is that (1) Henin was in a grand slam final and (2) there was nothing apparently wrong with her. Djokovic fell in a previous game, obviously hurting his back. Think back to the earlier matches of Amelie at the AO. No one gave Kim Clijsters shit for retiring in the SF vs. Amelie...because she was in obvious stress and it was not the final. There was nothing preventing Justine from playing and finishing the match. She just didn't want to because she was going to lose.

SF

:lol: :lol:

How do you know there was nothing preventing Justine from playing and finishing the match?

Again, the board knows you hate her, why post about her if you hate her?

Justine Fan
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:33 PM
Just heard on the BBC that they are saying Nalbandian retired due to stomach problems!

:tape:

Helen Lawson
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:35 PM
Listen, I like Justine a lot, she's one of my favorites, but it looks strange to have your ass handed to you on a plate in the first set and then the second set starts the same way, and then you retire. It looks like quitting.

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:41 PM
Justine's illness sure seemed to come upon her suddenly. Losing a break point can in the second set after losing the first can certainly do that sometimes.

BTW - Justine Fan - Nalbandian retired with an "abdominal strain" - while you may say this is a "stomach problem" I think there is a difference between simply having digestive issues and pulling a muscle. You're spinning the facts more than Conchita Martinez spins tennis balls.

SF

per4ever
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:09 PM
Justine's illness sure seemed to come upon her suddenly. Losing a break point can in the second set after losing the first can certainly do that sometimes.

SF

and that for one of the best fighters on tour? Give it a break :lol:

When you don't fool well, then you have every right to quit just to avoid to have more problems later on. This is not just sports, this is also a job for these players. They have to take care of themselves.

Playing when you're having problems, just for your opponent to have a decent victory (although would it be that nice to win when you obviously can see that your opponent is sick or injured) is plain stupid :)

SharapovaFan16
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:10 PM
It was a Grand Slam final... your argument here has no leverage!

GoDominique
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:14 PM
It was a GS final, and it were like 12 more points.

ZeroSOFInfinity
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:55 PM
Sfselesfan... you just love to bash Justine don't you? :lol:

No wonder you are an irritating scum to us Justine fans here... so mind you, shut up and stop commenting about her anymore :tape:

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:57 PM
:p

SF

xin_hui
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:00 PM
scum

what a nice word to address people just because he/she's not a fan :o

WF4EVER
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Personally I'm not a fan of retiring in any match but especially the latter stages of a grand slam. If the player has broke his ankle or something like that then of course they have to retire. But I think Justine should have finished the match, as I think Djokovic and Nalbandian should have finished as well. I don't know what their pains were but they should be a able to tough it out in my opinion. I don't question their desires to win but I do question there toughness some.

I take it, then, that you have never retired from a GS match.

Oh, wait! You've never played one, have you?

Rexman
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Yeah, with Novak and David, there was a whole said yet to be played. With Justine just a couple games.

And Novak has gotten some slack from commentators and journalist saying he "has no heart"

Please. No one retires from a grand slam because they are getting beat. Not Justine. Not Novak. Not David.

No.1Hingis
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:43 PM
Uff.. new record for retirements from a GS.. thats says all..

I prefer player with heart.. that over almost all circunstances play to the final.. no matter what.. without EXCUSES...

vejh
Jun 9th, 2006, 05:27 PM
And I think we'll see more retirements in the future because it's not worth it playng with your health for ONE match. That can endanger a whole future.

Frankly, as a budding doctor, I'm all for healthy living.lol. And if juju had to retire, you best believe it was because she was in pain. Because we know she will fight for it at all cost.

I kinda get annoyed when players go out and play for the 'crowd' while they're suffering. Yes I understand they have to satisfy the ticket holders, but while sports is happening, real life still happens. Sorry, but it does. My sister said sports is 'too traumatic' and therefore she doesn't follow it.lol

suzie
Jun 9th, 2006, 05:48 PM
David Nalbandian has a stomach muscle strain that may prevent him from playing Wimbledon...It would have been very silly to keep playing with an injury. I always believe that if I a top player retires, (s)he must have a good reason to do it. Didn't we discussed Justine's AO retirement to exhaustion?? I thought we did.

WF4EVER
Jun 9th, 2006, 06:25 PM
Suzie, I agree: the Ao 'debaucle' was exhausted, but this is about double standard.

I have seen players retire from matches when it really seemed like nothing was wrong with them except they were losing.

Actually where Djokovic was concerned I heard Jimy Arias calling his problem a 'phantom back problem' today during the Fed/Nalby SFwhich I think was totally ridiculous. While I was watching the QF match he kept saying that Novak was playing fine during the points but was pulling up lame after the point. DUH! If youre going to play lame during the point it makes sense to retire! Obviously the guy was saving whatever little game he had for the point. Doesn't mean his injury was 'phantom'.

I thought that was quite unfair to Novak, whom I thought was genuinely injured, and I don't believe he retired because he was losing, but because he was in pain and knew he couldn't put up much of a fight. So should he have stayed out there just for the sake of completing the match? I don't think so.

Didn't Monica get booed a couple of years ago for playing on a twisted ankle and losing 6-0 6-0 to Hingis?

It's fine for fans to want the entertainment but players are human and they have to look out for themselves, because we just want to be entertained, then when they're out for months with injury we moan and groan about it.

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 06:29 PM
Think what you want to think...but it was a grand slam-friggin-final, she had a few games to go, she did not appear (objectively) to be suffering, and Djokovic/Nalbandian were genuinely hurt with a back injury and an abdominal strain...not just "feeling unwell."

SF

ezekiel
Jun 9th, 2006, 06:36 PM
why justine fan brings this again? :lol:
The fact is she was not injured and just quit that final and final it was

Both Nalbandian and Djokovic were seriously hurt in game where it prevented their movement and serve and I don't need no biased commentator telling me otherwise, Get a grip of yourself :(

Floydrose
Jun 9th, 2006, 06:44 PM
Looks like we are still in the romanian period of gladiators.
Looks like a lot of nonfans of tennis prefer players dying on court instead of retire.
Looks like some of them prefer blood than tennis.
Looks like those persons know perfectly how to prepare a slam and play so long and hard during it.
Looks like we have a lot of potential GS winners on this board.
Looks like those potential winners have a telepathic medicine licence too.

When a player is burned, he is really burned, and I don't think he seems it.
For Justine, she was in the red against Davenport and against Sharapava under the very hot weather of Australia. Amelie was not. Point. Justine retired and lose. Amelie Won. Point.

Next please. :fiery:

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 06:58 PM
For Justine, she was in the red against Davenport and against Sharapava under the very hot weather of Australia. Amelie was not.

Yet another excuse. Now it was the weather.

SF

nick66
Jun 9th, 2006, 08:31 PM
I suppose though that when Justine is up a set and 2-0 tomorrow she won't retire even if she she falls over and breaks her wrist

Direwolf
Jun 9th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Justines issues..no comment...
And I think that that Djokovic guy has retired atleast 3 times in his past 3-5 grandslams??
Nalbandian....just a little unfortunate...he retired in a right time...I mean.. he didnt he knew he couldnt play..and he just stopped...unlike...mm

Bitter Blue Bong
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Djokovic got a lot of slack for retiring in his match, and I've heard references to some "stunt" he pulled against Monfils (or somebody) last year. With Nalbandian, you'd have to think that something was seriously wrong. He was beating Federer, of all people, so I doubt he would give that up for something trivial.

Il Primo!
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:21 PM
Once again,it's so ridiculous to say Justine retired cause she couldn't have accepted to be swept by Momo :rolleyes: Only biased people can say that. We all know how determinated and brave she is. You're true,it's not fair the way media critisised her. But surely it's the price to pay when you're extremly strong and mysterious :o

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:23 PM
But surely it's the price to pay when you're extremly strong and mysterious :o

...and a repeated liar and cheater...

SF

Zauber
Jun 10th, 2006, 12:42 AM
If you are in the final, the big television networks have ads sold worth millions which they need to show during the match.
Therefore you are allowed to do anything except quit.

Reuchlin
Jun 10th, 2006, 01:11 AM
Honestly, Justine, with her weak system, could have caused herself MAJOR HARM if she kept playing. She wasn't playing with one of us, she was playing another pro.

.ivy.
Jun 10th, 2006, 01:14 AM
Justine's illness sure seemed to come upon her suddenly. Losing a break point can in the second set after losing the first can certainly do that sometimes.


At 1-4 in the first set against Amelie, Carlos had signaled to her to stop playing, because he could tell that something was wrong with her. So, no, I wouldn't say that it was 'sudden' because she was a set and a break down. She wanted to be able to play in more slam finals, and wanted to keep her health. Tennis players are only human (with the possible exception of Feds).

KBdoubleu
Jun 10th, 2006, 01:18 AM
Honestly, Justine, with her weak system, could have caused herself MAJOR HARM if she kept playing. She wasn't playing with one of us, she was playing another pro.
I don't see how much damage could be done to her immune system by playing 12 more points (or however many it was).

TomTennis
Jun 10th, 2006, 01:21 AM
I kinda feel for Amelie.

Looking at the likes of Hingis/Davenport/Venus/Serena, not once (to my own recall) did they have a walkover in any slam that they won. This is 20 slam tournaments between them, yet Amlie wins one, has has three. Its a bit of a shame.

anlavalle
Jun 10th, 2006, 04:10 AM
Roger in his press conference said
. At the end of the match, what did you feel? Are you satisfied that you won, but at the same time it's a match that's incomplete?

ROGER FEDERER: Well, it was over. He gave up. But if he'd been leading 5‑Love in the third set, he wouldn't have given up. I tried to push him, and I think it doesn't usually happen that someone actually starts playing a match and then gives up halfway through. So he wished me good luck for the final, which was very nice. It's true, it's a bit unfortunate to win a match like this in a semifinal. But I think I worked to put myself in that position. I think I deserve it.

Mother_Marjorie
Jun 10th, 2006, 04:21 AM
Looks like a lot of nonfans of tennis prefer players dying on court instead of retire.

Yeah, and then you hear bitch, whine and moan for months when the top players are out injured. Of course they want players to "die out there." Then the sadistic ones would have something to talk about for a while.

SelesFan70
Jun 10th, 2006, 04:26 AM
:o If Justine wins the French, it'll all be a distant memory. But she'd better not show any sort of inclination of quitting or stalling or gamesmanship or she'll be boo'd off the court.

Volcana
Jun 10th, 2006, 06:09 AM
Henin-Hardenne said it herself. I'm just going on her interviews after the match. She quit because she knew she couldn't win, NOT because she was unable to play. She wasn't risking further injury She WAS able to continue. Could she WIN? No, not unless there was a miracle.

There is a difference between quitting because you're unable to win, and quitting because you're unable to play. In some sports, quitting because you can possibly win is honorable. In martial arts, you aren't obligated to fight a choke hold til you pass out. Once it's locked in, you can quit honorably. In chess, once a player realizes that his opponent has a position that will result in a win, and believes his opponent will not make a mistake, you can quit honorably.

Tennis isn't like that. Feeling good, feeling bad, you're expected to stay out on the court and get your ass kicked if you CAN play. Venus Williams at the 2003 Wimbledon final comes to mind. She was suffering from an injury that was going to keep her off the tour the rest of the year. But she wouldn't retire from a GS final, because she COULD play. Not as well as she needed to win, but she COULD play.

There was a time, and not so long ago, when saying someone had no honor was legitemate grounds for them to challenge you to a duel to the death. Now, a lot of people have no idea what honor is. If Henin-Hardenne knew, she could never have retired from a GS final over a stomach ache.

vejh
Jun 10th, 2006, 06:36 AM
Now she has a nice little peptic ulcer to show for it, not mentioning the classic side effects of fatigue, breathing problems, and pain, from the anti-inflammatories. I believe Henin's first words were: "I have nothing left to give." Give her the benefit of the doubt. We have no idea how she felt (considering she gained an ulcer, some of us can imagine how she must have felt running up and down with that).

I say let the player's quit if they feel too much pain. Venus was gracious enough to play for the crowd, as she admitted, but who's to compare what those two were feeling? It's not like jhh could take anti-inflammatories for a budding ulcer.lol