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View Full Version : What's the last match Venus williams actually got beat instead of losing it herself?


RobTheRusski
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:42 AM
It seems these days that Venus is only losing because she gets into that mode where she continuously makes errors for no reason.. I still think its almost impossible to beat Venus when she's playing amazing tennis and is always in the match.. So, I'm wondering, what's the last match where someone kicked her ass and she was playing well?

*roddicksinme*
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:44 AM
Roland Garros 2006 QF: Vaidisova d Williams 67 61 63

The Daviator
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:44 AM
I'd say Kim in Stanford...

Or Sveta in Warsaw, but she was quite rusty there, so I'd say the Kim match in Stanford...

CrossCourt~Rally
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:45 AM
:haha:

twight6
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Roland Garros 2006 QF: Vaidisova d Williams 67 61 63

agreed. Venus herself even said Vaidisova won it

RobTheRusski
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:47 AM
Venus was just saying that to be really nice, and classy.. But we all kn ow from watching the match that Venus broke down and started playing very erratic.. It's very obvious

vejh
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:49 AM
I would like to see Venus play good tennis again. Not just blast the ball hard with no placement or strategy. I too believe, really believe, that she's pretty much unbeatable when on. For some reason, she never got that consistency that players NEED to be succesful. Maybe because she was still so dominant even with the errors.

I didn't see the qfs of FO, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was more of the same ball bashing, lack of strategy, followed by errors.

hingisGOAT
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:50 AM
vaidisova, demonstrating a more powerful, aggressive game, pummeling the venus forehand into submission in two consecutive non-competitive sets

dreamgoddess099
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:22 AM
vaidisova, demonstrating a more powerful, aggressive game, pummeling the venus forehand into submission in two consecutive non-competitive sets
I wouldn't go overboard. Nicole hit 30 winners to Venus's 25, so Venus hit damn near just as many winners off Nicole as Nicole hit off Venus. The way you talk you'd think she went out there and hit 20 more winners than Venus instead of just 5. Nicole had almost 60 UF errors and Venus had almost 70, so neither played great. And I love the pummeling Venus' forehand part, because Venus' forehand is notorious for going wild all on it's on against anybody. Venus was forced to play defense because her shots were going wild when she tried to be aggressive (hence the 70 UFEs), but don't be mistaken to think Venus can't handle Nicole's power. She managed to handle the power of Pierce, Sharapova, and Davenport (all who hit just as hard if not harder than Nicole) just fine on her way to win Wimbledon last year. How soon we forget.

meyerpl
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:26 AM
Roland Garros 2006 QF: Vaidisova d Williams 67 61 63
Beaten like a red-headed step-child.

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:27 AM
What's more important is when's the last time a Venus fan admitted that Venus got beaten by her opponent instead of Venus beating herself? :tape:

kiwifan
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:31 AM
Dunno, but I know who beat her...

...Serena :nerner:

Jasmin
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:31 AM
I honestly can't remember.

mila_mail
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:32 AM
she was too powerful that she always hits the ball wide away from the court

RobTheRusski
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:32 AM
What's more important is when's the last time a Venus fan admitted that Venus got beaten by her opponent instead of Venus beating herself? :tape:


Probably once every blue moon, bc thats how often it happens.I'm a Venus fan, but I'm also a fair fan.. If someone gives someone an ass kicking, even if it is my fav player, I'm fine to admit it.. but you can't help but deny that when Venus loses, except to Serena, she does it to herself.. It's very obvious.. just look at her groundstrokes from when shes feelin good to when shes just spaced out.

Billabong
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:33 AM
Stanford 2005 (Kim), Miami 2005 (Maria), AO 2005 (Alicia played a fabulous match there:))

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:33 AM
As a side note, do any of the "Venus beat herself" crowd actually play tennis? I mean, I do play tennis, and what can you do when your opponent is spraying balls all over the place and committing dozens of unforced errors? :shrug:

Do you say to yourself, "I'm not winning. They are just losing. I'm not beating them ... they are beating themselves."

Part of "beating" your opponent is changing your strategy mid-match. If you're having trouble with unforced errors, fucking STOP trying to blast winners all over the place. Play some percentage tennis. Try to break down your opponent's shots instead of trying to paint the lines with your wildly erratic, technically unsound groundstrokes.

I mean, damn, lots of people are capable of beating anyone when their game is on.

RobTheRusski
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:36 AM
I do happen to play tennis, and when that happens , especially if the player is better than me, I know that they are having an off day... Its hard for me to call it a TRUE win when I barely p lace the ball in the court, and my opponent constantly sprays it wide or keeps double faulting..

SelesFan70
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:39 AM
What's more important is when's the last time a Venus fan admitted that Venus got beaten by her opponent instead of Venus beating herself? :tape:

:devil:

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:39 AM
Probably once every blue moon, bc thats how often it happens.I'm a Venus fan, but I'm also a fair fan.. If someone gives someone an ass kicking, even if it is my fav player, I'm fine to admit it.. but you can't help but deny that when Venus loses, except to Serena, she does it to herself.. It's very obvious.. just look at her groundstrokes from when shes feelin good to when shes just spaced out.

"When Venus loses, except to Serena, she does it to herself." With all due respect, that's utter nonsense. It's completely disrespectful to her opponent, and it's simply not true. Since when did trying to blast powerful winners become the only "acceptable" way to win a tennis match? Since when did exploiting your opponent's weaknesses stop becoming an acceptable way to beat someone?

Reuchlin
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Probably once every blue moon, bc thats how often it happens.I'm a Venus fan, but I'm also a fair fan.. If someone gives someone an ass kicking, even if it is my fav player, I'm fine to admit it.. but you can't help but deny that when Venus loses, except to Serena, she does it to herself.. It's very obvious.. just look at her groundstrokes from when shes feelin good to when shes just spaced out.

Both you and LoveFifteen have it wrong. When Venus loses to Serena it's neither up to Serena nor Venus: it's up to Richard. :tape:

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:45 AM
Both you and LoveFifteen have it wrong. When Venus loses to Serena it's neither up to Serena or Venus: it's up to Richard. :tape:

No wonder Oracene always looks like she's gonna fall asleep during their matches. Allez! :angel:

meyerpl
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:45 AM
Probably once every blue moon, bc thats how often it happens.I'm a Venus fan, but I'm also a fair fan.. If someone gives someone an ass kicking, even if it is my fav player, I'm fine to admit it.. but you can't help but deny that when Venus loses, except to Serena, she does it to herself.. It's very obvious.. just look at her groundstrokes from when shes feelin good to when shes just spaced out.
Wow. That is the biggest load of horseshit I've seen since I had a summer job cleaning out the stables at Churchill Downs.

I have to admit, following this logic, Venus has been simply awesome against herself for the last year. You go girl!

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 02:52 AM
Yeah, according to this logic, the only player that's ever beaten Venus Williams is Serena Williams. It completley disrespects all the players with winnings records over her: Hingis, Novotna, Davenport, Graf, etc.

I guess Venus' head to head against herself is 411-90. :rolleyes:

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:02 AM
I honestly can't remember.

Oh, so you haven't seen any of this year's claycourt season? :angel:

-jenks-
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:26 AM
Probablly Kim in Stanford. Kim played amazing that day. She kept lobbing up defensive high balls and the sun was too bright and it forced Venus to start to point over.

junlee_vee
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:27 AM
I'm not trying to be biased, honest to God I'm not, but when Venus is being aggresive and moves in and keeps her UE's down to a MINIMUM, she is damn near impossible to beat. This isn't saying that she hasn't truely been beatin' by a lot of the people she has lost to, but to say that Vaidisova just beat Venus while Venus was playing her best is extremely stupid and you should be banned for saying so. That being said, I do commend Vaidisova for keeping her nerves and staying tough in that 3rd set when Venus did try to raise her game.

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:40 AM
Neither Venus nor Vaidisova were playing their best. It was a hideous match riddled with unforced errors. Venus was nowhere near her peak form, but she was still beaten. A win is a win is a win.

CrossCourt~Rally
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:42 AM
RAAAWB is back! :spit:

junlee_vee
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:42 AM
You're right, it was an ugly match. I really want them to play each other at Wimbledon...that would be fun! :devil:

Jakeev
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:42 AM
I think the last time Venus got beat outright was against Serena at Nasdaq in 2002. Venus just couldn't do anything against younger sister that day.

1handedwonder
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:44 AM
Venus lost the match, period. Not taking anything away from nicole cause she did play well, but venus hit 70 UEFs, most were not because she was defending orbecause she was forced to go for something big, the east mistakes that we have grown to hate. if good venus had shown up, nicole would have been gone it 2 sets tou doubt!

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:45 AM
I think the last time Venus got beat outright was against Serena at Nasdaq in 2002. Venus just couldn't do anything against younger sister that day.

Would you like fries with that bullshit? :rolleyes:

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:49 AM
This whole threat invites circular reasoning. I mean, maybe the reason Venus hits errors is because her opponent forces her to go for more. Venus has learned to give credit where credit is due. As a fan of hers, I'd appreciate it if my fellow fans followed Venus' lead and stopped creating threads like this.

SF

Jakeev
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:49 AM
Would you like fries with that bullshit? :rolleyes:

Uh excuse me jackass?

MH0861
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:52 AM
The USO '04 4th Round Match was pretty high quality too where Lindsay was just too good that day, getting the one crucial break in each set.

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:54 AM
Uh excuse me jackass?

Venus hasn't been beaten since Miami 2002? That's the biggest load of bull I've heard in a while. Eat your fries, they are getting cold.

Jakeev
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:01 AM
Venus hasn't been beaten since Miami 2002? That's the biggest load of bull I've heard in a while. Eat your fries, they are getting cold.

Hey nitwit did you read the title of the thread? It asks "what's the last match that Venus got downright beatdown in a match without losing it herself."

And if you understand English or at least comprehend it, the poster's criteria was in a match when she didn't have 700 errors like she does in many of her losses.

So I stated the Miami 2002 to match when she got skunked 2-6, 2-6, against Serena in which Venus hardly had any winners or unforced errors because Serena was in a zone that day.

I might be a bullshitter but damn you put the J in Jackass for not understanding how to answer a simple question.

meyerpl
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:08 AM
This whole threat invites circular reasoning. I mean, maybe the reason Venus hits errors is because her opponent forces her to go for more. Venus has learned to give credit where credit is due. As a fan of hers, I'd appreciate it if my fellow fans followed Venus' lead and stopped creating threads like this.

SF
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
Venus is a class act. So are most of her fans. A few (very few) are jackasses and a few live in denial.

Any of the top players, when hitting on all cylinders, are virtually unbeatable. You could apply this "anytime they lose it's only because they beat themselves" nonsense about any of them.

meyerpl
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:12 AM
Hey nitwit did you read the title of the thread? It asks "what's the last match that Venus got downright beatdown in a match without losing it herself."

And if you understand English or at least comprehend it, the poster's criteria was in a match when she didn't have 700 errors like she does in many of her losses.

So I stated the Miami 2002 to match when she got skunked 2-6, 2-6, against Serena in which Venus hardly had any winners or unforced errors because Serena was in a zone that day.

I might be a bullshitter but damn you put the J in Jackass for not understanding how to answer a simple question.
Take a few deep breaths, have a glass of warm milk, count to 100, do something to relax before you have an aneurism. And it wasn't a simple question, it was a ridiculous question.

Jakeev
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:16 AM
Take a few deep breaths, have a glass of warm milk, count to 100, do something to relax before you have an aneurism. And it wasn't a simple question, it was a ridiculous question.

Yes mother.

sunset
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:41 AM
Roland Garros 2006 QF: Vaidisova d Williams 67 61 63


yessssssss!

meyerpl
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:51 AM
Yes mother.
:lol: :lol: :lol: O.K. but that should be "father" unless you left a word off the end of "mother".

Lulu.
Jun 9th, 2006, 05:00 AM
Stanford 2005. Lost to Kim....

TomTennis
Jun 9th, 2006, 08:31 AM
I think the better question was.......Whats the last match that Venus played near her best but got beat?

Because there are loads and loads of matches where she beats herself in a way, but its all down the the opponenet making the fewer UE's. E.g. Vaidisova did well in the quater-finals, ok it would be hard to say that if Venus played her best Vaidisova still would have won, but thats not the point, the point is that Vaidisova played the better match and won.

The last time that Venus played great tennis and was still beaten.....mmmm...I dont think Kim in Stanford was when Venus was playing great (pretty tired)....


......I think maybe the Maria match in Miami 2005. In the first set, both were hitting the ball great (apart from one lose service game by Venus). In the second, towards in the end and especially in the last two games, both were hitting really well, and the rallies were amazing! She got beat in that match.

pav
Jun 9th, 2006, 09:23 AM
Some of the statements in this thread are classics in the theory of never letting a little bitty thing like the truth get in the way of blind fanism(not a proper word I know) hell, i thought i could come out with some bullshit,but I'm just a beginner:)

saki
Jun 9th, 2006, 09:41 AM
So, if Nicole had made just a few more unforced errors would she have beaten herself?

Someone else already said this but it bears repeating: all of the top players when they're playing well are damn near impossible to beat, the most successful are those that actually step up and play their best consistently and who know how to adapt their game to their opponent's game and exploit their weaknesses.

Hagar
Jun 9th, 2006, 09:54 AM
What's more important is when's the last time a Venus fan admitted that Venus got beaten by her opponent instead of Venus beating herself? :tape:

LOL!
It's so typical that some Venus fans cannot give any credit to Venus' opponents.

TomTennis
Jun 9th, 2006, 09:57 AM
LOL!
It's so typical that some Venus fans cannot give any credit to Venus' opponents.

thats just an over-emphaisesd generalization and you all know it. Not all fans are the same.

Louis Cyphre
Jun 9th, 2006, 10:17 AM
It seems these days that Venus is only losing because she gets into that mode where she continuously makes errors for no reason.. I still think its almost impossible to beat Venus when she's playing amazing tennis and is always in the match.. So, I'm wondering, what's the last match where someone kicked her ass and she was playing well?
According to Venus fans - No one can beat Venus
According to other players fans - This is ridiculous

faste5683
Jun 9th, 2006, 10:37 AM
The idea of winning tennis is simple: hit one more ball over the net than your opponent and you win the point. If you haven't the ability to do that, than your opponent is obviously a better player than you are on that particular day. "Beating oneself" is a sign of bad technique or shot selection, not some mystical force issued randomly by the Tennis Gods.

:wavey:

DomenicDemaria
Jun 9th, 2006, 10:38 AM
The Sprem match. The umpire lost that one for her :haha:

Jakeev
Jun 9th, 2006, 10:46 AM
According to Venus fans - No one can beat Venus
According to other players fans - This is ridiculous

Yet that is not what is being said or asked. So again, you are another poster unable to answer the question of the thread starter.

So why even bother?:shrug:

bellascarlett
Jun 9th, 2006, 10:48 AM
......I think maybe the Maria match in Miami 2005. In the first set, both were hitting the ball great (apart from one lose service game by Venus). In the second, towards in the end and especially in the last two games, both were hitting really well, and the rallies were amazing! She got beat in that match.

Yup. I didnt see the Kim match but the Miami one against Maria immediately came to mind. Maria really won that match with both playing well I thought.

treufreund
Jun 9th, 2006, 10:51 AM
hmmm, do you think PRESSURE created by her opponent playing well and making it difficult to execute your shots could be causing the errors? :rolleyes:

I agree with the poster asking since when is hitting winners to the only "legitimate" way to win a match. Hey I have an idea, how about we just arm wrestle, tug of war or run a 100 meter dash in the future to decide who wins? or just see who can win on the radar gun for serves and groundstrokes and just leave it at that? no need then to worry about those silly things like strategy, defense, placement, etc. :haha:

oh and btw, you don't get "beat", you get BEATEN. again,details, just details ;)

TomTennis
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:23 AM
Yup. I didnt see the Kim match but the Miami one against Maria immediately came to mind. Maria really won that match with both playing well I thought.


I didnt see the Kim match either.

Yeh the Maria was great. I hope they play again, because the last two times they have played some of the shots and rallies have been great. Really high quality. Its like they have to play great tennis to beat one another.

bellascarlett
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:28 AM
I didnt see the Kim match either.

Yeh the Maria was great. I hope they play again, because the last two times they have played some of the shots and rallies have been great. Really high quality. Its like they have to play great tennis to beat one another.

I agree and I hope they play each other too. Wimbledon final maybe. ;) Hope they find each other in opposite sides of the draw. Both seem to be extra motivated when they play one another. Well I think it's generally been the case between Maria and a Williams sister.

up!
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:32 AM
Kim in US Open

TomTennis
Jun 9th, 2006, 11:41 AM
vaidisova, demonstrating a more powerful, aggressive game, pummeling the venus forehand into submission in two consecutive non-competitive sets

ahhh bless.

The newbie is trying out the whole 'good/bad rep' system. You know, they are all the same. Give them a few more weeks and they will settle down. Right now its bad-rep this and bad-rep that, trying to prove how opiniated and sophisitaced he/she/it all are :rolleyes: :lol:

tenn_ace
Jun 9th, 2006, 12:06 PM
I like Venus and completely dislike Vaidisova, but, c'mon, Vaidisova did play really well and did beat Venus. Some of the ue were not really ue, but were either forced or pressured into by Nicole's good play.

new-york
Jun 9th, 2006, 12:37 PM
According to Venus fans - No one can beat Venus
According to other players fans - This is ridiculous

you obviously like generalisations.

Tom is right, the question is not really well put cause it's kinda ignoring the other player. But to me, even when she self-destruct, she got beaten, at least by the fact that the opponent handled the match better.

and that's all about it.

TonyP
Jun 9th, 2006, 12:45 PM
What would you call Venus' loss in Rome, where she won the first set at love, then lost the next two sets 3-6, 3-6?

What makes this such a silly concept is the fact that almost every player has occasions when they are unbeatable. Ever see Mary Pierce when she is playing at the very top of her game? She blew Graf off the court in '94 playing that way.

Venus went through a patch where she cut down on her unforced errors and played much more controlled tennis. But that patch appears to be the abberition, not the norm. Her norm once again seems to be making about 20 unforced errors per set --not per match, per set -- and that is costing her matches and at times allowing young or unheralded players to beat her.

Pureracket
Jun 9th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Was this thread started by Karl Rove for Republicans voters or something?!?!?!

It's obvious that it's a smokescreen for a Venus bashing festival that has already welcomed the usual suspects. When people wake up and read this thread, the Venus bashing will continue. At this posting, the threadstarter has only 10 posts. To start a thread like this about Venus has "Troll" written all over it.

Love15, pag, TonyP,treufriend, wipe the saliva from around your lips, and get back to what you were doing before you saw this thread.

RAA
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:06 PM
This whole threat invites circular reasoning. I mean, maybe the reason Venus hits errors is because her opponent forces her to go for more. Venus has learned to give credit where credit is due. As a fan of hers, I'd appreciate it if my fellow fans followed Venus' lead and stopped creating threads like this.

SF

Yes I agree. look, I love venus but she has gotten beaten a lot lately. and maybe its cuz she is hitting 2950282905809i8 UEs but a lot of the time that is because she is feeling pressure from her opponent who is actually, gasp, keeping the ball in play.

lets give credit where it is due. Venus gets beat. her opponents play better than she does. Venus usually admits this herself.

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:25 PM
So, if Nicole had made just a few more unforced errors would she have beaten herself?

:haha: So true. Amazing how Venus' opponents never "beat themselves" ...

Paneru
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:29 PM
Tough one.

02' USO'

StarDuvallGrant
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:29 PM
LOL!
It's so typical that some Venus fans cannot give any credit to Venus' opponents.

When the opponenets and especially fans are like you why bother :shrug:

Paneru
Jun 9th, 2006, 01:33 PM
When the opponenets and especially fans are like you why bother :shrug:
Makes them feel better about
certain players.

They profess their dislike for anything
Williams yet always up in everything Williams!

Go figure! ;)

hingis-seles
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:28 PM
I don't care about the last time she got beat, but my favourite Venus bitchslapping is:

M.Hingis def V.Williams 6-1, 6-1 at the 2001 Australian Open. :worship:

LoveFifteen
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:32 PM
I don't care about the last time she got beat, but my favourite Venus bitchslapping is:

M.Hingis def V.Williams 6-1, 6-1 at the 2001 Australian Open. :worship:


No, remember, Venus bitch-slapped herself during that match. Martina just stood there. A quadroplegic would've handed Venus two breadsticks on that day. Venus Williams beat Venus Williams that day. It had NOTHING to do with her opponent. :tape:

hingis-seles
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:37 PM
No, remember, Venus bitch-slapped herself during that match. Martina just stood there. A quadroplegic would've handed Venus two breadsticks on that day. Venus Williams beat Venus Williams that day. It had NOTHING to do with her opponent. :tape:

Queen Vee, how could you?! :sad:

I'll bet it was those RACIST CHEATING UMPIRES WHO DON'T KNOW THAT FEARLESS QUEEN VEE RULEZZZ!!!111~~ :fiery: :mad:

Pureracket
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:37 PM
No, remember, Venus bitch-slapped herself during that match. Martina just stood there. A quadroplegic would've handed Venus two breadsticks on that day. Venus Williams beat Venus Williams that day. It had NOTHING to do with her opponent. :tape:Again, it was soooo obvious what the motive of this thread is.

Pureracket
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:39 PM
Queen Vee, how could you?! :sad:

I'll bet it was those RACIST CHEATING UMPIRES WHO DON'T KNOW THAT FEARLESS QUEEN VEE RULEZZZ!!!111~~ :fiery: :mad:Oddly enough, I was wondering, "When's the first post that makes fun of the horrors of racism going to be posted?"

Here it is.

Kworb
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:40 PM
No, remember, Venus bitch-slapped herself during that match. Martina just stood there. A quadroplegic would've handed Venus two breadsticks on that day. Venus Williams beat Venus Williams that day. It had NOTHING to do with her opponent. :tape:
:lol:

Seriously, this thread is just stupid. Vaidisova beat Venus, deal with it.

Pureracket
Jun 9th, 2006, 03:44 PM
:lol:

Seriously, this thread is just stupid. Vaidisova beat Venus, deal with it.. . .and now, they're coming out of the woodworks.

Denise4925
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:03 PM
No wonder Oracene always looks like she's gonna fall asleep during their matches. Allez! :angel:
Your posts are so funny, because you always come off as trying to be unbiased against the WS. Chastising their fans for being so biased, unfair and disrespectful to their opponents, but then you post some bullshit like this. Kind of makes you lose credibility with people who don't already know where your WS hating, biased, hypocritical ass is coming from.

:wavey:

Denise4925
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Both you and LoveFifteen have it wrong. When Venus loses to Serena it's neither up to Serena nor Venus: it's up to Richard. :tape:
At least you're consistent with your hate. :shrug: You don't try to hide it. :lol:

RobTheRusski
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:06 PM
Look, I'm new to the board here... I've been a reader for quite some time, but I just joined to talk about tennis.. If this thread has "troll" written all over it, i apologize, but honesty I don't even know what that is... Remember I'm new here, but I acutally don't see why I joined if you barely can express your opinion without being criticized for your opinions, how many threads have you done, how much V-Cash, etc.
Are we forgetting what we are here for? Tennis folks! there's no need to call me a stupid fucker for expressing my opinions, everyone is entitled to think what they want to, and if we can't express it, why does this message board even exist? Yes, I may have a few posts to my name and started very few threads, but I didn't know there was a quantitative requirement here in order to be heard. So again, sorry if this is a "troll" post, or whatever it is... but maybe I'll just stick to the days of reading the board instead of talking about it, because obviously people take this stuff WAY too seriously.

meyerpl
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:34 PM
I acutally don't see why I joined if you barely can express your opinion without being criticized for your opinions, how many threads have you done, how much V-Cash, etc.
Are we forgetting what we are here for? Tennis folks! there's no need to call me a stupid fucker for expressing my opinions, everyone is entitled to think what they want to, and if we can't express it, why does this message board even exist? .
Remember, it is a message board and attracts all types of people and responses, so don't take it too seriously.
I've figured out that any sort of joke or comment about either the Williams sisters or Maria Sharapova is going to light a fire under somebody.
I consider myself to have a very friendly relationship with many Williams sisters fans. I have learned that they are often quite sensitive about jokes and comments directed at the sisters. I think I understand some of the reasons. Some folks obviously take delight in pushing people's buttons. I try to be considerate, but I know I have made comments that have rubbed people the wrong way, and they let me know about it.
I joke about most of the players at times and come to their defense at others. I genuinly like and respect all the players. The players I joke about the most are my own favorites and I often poke fun at myself. I think most people recognize patterns in their fellow posters and figure out where they're coming from.
Bottom line: If you genuinly don't want to piss people off, just try to be a little understanding. When you do piss people off and get rude comments and bad reps, don't take it too seriously, but remember, there are actual people with feelings behind the words on this board. It doesn't hurt to keep that in mind and have a little consideration.

Denise4925
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:37 PM
Yeah, according to this logic, the only player that's ever beaten Venus Williams is Serena Williams. It completley disrespects all the players with winnings records over her: Hingis, Novotna, Davenport, Graf, etc.

I guess Venus' head to head against herself is 411-90. :rolleyes:

H2H
Hingis/Venus 11-10 :eek: What a wide margin. :rolleyes:

Novotna/Venus 3-1 ( :secret: Novotna retired in 1999 and Venus had only started playing a full season, if you want to call it that, in 1997)

Davenport/Venus 14-13 :rolleyes: Another Grand Canyon :smash:

Graf/Venus 3-2 (Graf also retired in 1999)

etc./Venus :shrug: etc. is not listed on the WTA Tour.

Maybe if the H2Hs weren't so close, you could argue that Venus gets outplayed every time she loses to them. But, that's just not true and you know it. That is also not to say that she outplays them every time either. All players have off days.

G1Player2
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:42 PM
What's more important is when's the last time a Venus fan admitted that Venus got beaten by her opponent instead of Venus beating herself? :tape:

:lol: You're hilarious. You try to appear objective when it comes to the WS, their matches, fans, but I know you are a WS hater. You try to hide it, but slowly but surely it is becoming evident in your posts. I suggest you stop now because I think most people with even a grain of intelligence can and WILL read between the lines if they haven't already.

Denise4925
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:55 PM
Was this thread started by Karl Rove for Republicans voters or something?!?!?!

It's obvious that it's a smokescreen for a Venus bashing festival that has already welcomed the usual suspects. When people wake up and read this thread, the Venus bashing will continue. At this posting, the threadstarter has only 10 posts. To start a thread like this about Venus has "Troll" written all over it.

Love15, pag, TonyP,treufriend, wipe the saliva from around your lips, and get back to what you were doing before you saw this thread.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pureracket again.
:lol:

Denise4925
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:57 PM
Makes them feel better about
certain players.

They profess their dislike for anything
Williams yet always up in everything Williams!

Go figure! ;)
Actually, Hagar needs to answer the pressing question of why Kim chokes every time she looks at Justine. :rolleyes:

sfselesfan
Jun 9th, 2006, 04:57 PM
This whole threat invites circular reasoning. I mean, maybe the reason Venus hits errors is because her opponent forces her to go for more. Venus has learned to give credit where credit is due. As a fan of hers, I'd appreciate it if my fellow fans followed Venus' lead and stopped creating threads like this.

SF

Last time a Venus fan credited an opponent.

I wish I could nuke this whole thread because it's stupid.

SF

BUBI
Jun 9th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Roland Garros 2006 QF: Vaidisova d Williams 67 61 63
I agree.

Zauber
Jun 9th, 2006, 05:11 PM
you guys really believe the headline?
I thought it was a tongue and check statement.
please onece and for all
please accept a simple fact.
If a player looses a match the other player won the match.
saying I lost the match is just sour grapes and childisch.
If you cannot win the game you are just not as good as the other player during that game.

TonyP
Jun 9th, 2006, 05:15 PM
To me, the issue here is defining "beat herself." For me, that sort of means having been in control of the match, but losing the lead and eventually, the match. That would also sort of be the definition of choking.

IN the match against Vaidisova, Venus made more than 20 unforced errors each set, and half that many winners in each set. When you add up the winners and unforced errors and the unforced errors are double the number of winners, you are most likely going to lose. Anyone is. So, if Venus hit smore winners than unforced errors, will she win? Most of the time, of course she will.

But won't anyone?

We see all players at times play "below their level," but we also see players performing "above their level." But if they play for awhile at either of these extremes, they lower what we think of as their level.


Actually, you could probably chart this if you had the time, the energy and all the match stats, but its too complicated to worry about.