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Fingon
May 25th, 2002, 07:31 PM
This article appeared on the BBC website. I am too lazy to find it there so this is a link to a textual copy on my page :)

http://www.justine-henin.net/article.asp?id=124

theheninfan
May 25th, 2002, 07:42 PM
Henin, arguably the most naturally talented player in the world in terms of shot-making...

Yeah! I totally agree! :bounce:

Crazy Canuck
May 25th, 2002, 07:44 PM
:D

I agree (though I may lean towards a healthy Hingis :o)- she has the nicest game to watch too, IMO.

Freefall
May 25th, 2002, 07:46 PM
I think it's a tie between Henin & Hingis!

tennisfun
May 25th, 2002, 08:11 PM
can someone explain to me what does it mean by naturally talented? Her shots look to me too much of an effort because she has to use her whole body to generate the power. While on the other hand, serena just hit the ball effortlessly, and with amazing angles. Did anyone see that shot she made against Henin at the Italian open that even Henin had to clapped her hands? That's pure touch and court savvy. Is that naturally talented or what?

Playa
May 25th, 2002, 08:15 PM
Sorry to spoil the fun or joy , but what's the brits knows about tennis?

they must be kidding...

Master Lu
May 25th, 2002, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Playa
Sorry to spoil the fun or joy , but what's the brits knows about tennis?

they must be kidding...


Oh, they just invented the game, nothing else... :rolleyes:

Couver
May 25th, 2002, 08:20 PM
I agree, it's always nice to watch Justine play. Although I have to say most of the top players, are all very talented.

Also I believe Tennis was invented by french monks.

Cersei
May 25th, 2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Playa
Sorry to spoil the fun or joy , but what's the brits knows about tennis?

they must be kidding...

do i even have to guess who u think are the most talented players?

Fingon
May 25th, 2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Playa
Sorry to spoil the fun or joy , but what's the brits knows about tennis?

they must be kidding...

The fact that Great Britain has been unable to produce top players in a very long time doesn't mean they don't know about tennis.

I find that the british media (at least BBC, The Guardian and other serious sitles) is far less biased than the americans for example, who only pay attention to their own players.

The UK hosts the most important and traditional tennis tournament in the world, and I find the BBC articles to be most of the time very objective and accurate.

Of course, when you use the words "better", "best" "most talented" you are introducing a bit of subjectivity, but it can be taken seriously if the writed is well based.

Fingon
May 25th, 2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by tennisfun
can someone explain to me what does it mean by naturally talented? Her shots look to me too much of an effort because she has to use her whole body to generate the power. While on the other hand, serena just hit the ball effortlessly, and with amazing angles. Did anyone see that shot she made against Henin at the Italian open that even Henin had to clapped her hands? That's pure touch and court savvy. Is that naturally talented or what?

And since when using the whole body to generate power isn't talent? :confused:

Serena hits the ball effortlessy? so? that means she is stronger, it's obvious to anyone who has ever seen them that Serena is way bigger and stronger than Justine, Serena can generate power with her arms only, which allows her to hit winner when she is out of balance. Justine can't, that doesn't mean she isn't naturally talented, only that she isn't as naturally strong, the fact that she can generate power with her body build says a lot about her technique doesn't it?

Serena is one of the quickest, if not the quickest players in the tour, that allows her to get in a good position to shot the ball most of the times.

I am not saying Serena isn't naturally talented, just that you are totally confusing concepts.

On a side note, nobody taught Justine how to hit the backhand, if that's not natural talent, then what natural talent is?

irma
May 25th, 2002, 08:32 PM
nothing against Justine but the greatest and best backhand ever talk after each beautiful point she makes with it is sometimes very annoying(I blame that on the commentators though, not on her)

Martian KC
May 25th, 2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by Master Lu



Oh, they just invented the game, nothing else... :rolleyes:

LMAO! Oh that's all!;)

tennisfun
May 25th, 2002, 09:23 PM
I am not sure if technique = natural talent. when I saw Justin's ground stroke, I don't feel that she is that naturally talented. her backhand is great, but there are lots of players who have great backhand. The only difference is that she uses one handed backhand. But if you talk about her volly, yeah, I THINK SHE IS very naturally talented in that department.

Venus+Serena#1fan
May 25th, 2002, 09:25 PM
I don't know if she is the most talented, but she certainly is talented.

Fingon
May 25th, 2002, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by tennisfun
I am not sure if technique = natural talent. when I saw Justin's ground stroke, I don't feel that she is that naturally talented. her backhand is great, but there are lots of players who have great backhand. The only difference is that she uses one handed backhand. But if you talk about her volly, yeah, I THINK SHE IS very naturally talented in that department.

I never said that technique=natural talent. I meant that her technique is a result or her natural talent, you can have natural talent for many different thing, you are confusing it with the application of that natural talent.

About the backhand, anyone is entitled to his own opinion. However, unless you think Justine is a liar, she has said she was never taught that shot.

Are there a lot of players who have a great backhand? :confused:
so? what does it have to do with Justine being naturally talented?

The only difference is that she uses a single-handed backhand? :rolleyes:

ok, I think we have seen completely different players, if the only difference is that she use a one-handed one, why do Venus and Serena constantly avoid playing to that side?

Name me how many players can change the spin at the very last second, how many players can hit it with topspin, slice or flat, down the line or crosscourt, standing or running, without a perceptive difference in how she prepares the shot?

How many players can overpower everyone with the backhand being 5'6"?

And how many players develop a backhand as such a weapon without being taught how to hit it?

Hagar
May 25th, 2002, 09:33 PM
You should once watch her play from close by (I was lucky to do that a month ago during the Fed Cup in Brussels) and you might understand why she's seen as the most talented.
What's so amazing about Justine is the instinctive touch she has. She was not playing particularly consistent when I saw her (match against Pratt) but at times the way she played was sending shivers down the spines of the people in the audience.
That's why Justine plays so great when she's not nervous. If she's nervous, she thinks too much, is not able to just let her racket go. But if she can do that, she's absolutely terrific. As I said in my report of the Fed Cup: a mix of dance and martial arts. Fantastic!

Fingon
May 25th, 2002, 09:58 PM
Hagar, a great definition :)

I've seen Justine play in person and she wasn't also at her best then (Canadian Open 2001), but at some points she really sent shiver down my spine, you could hear the crowd's oh!

Probably the best example of how instinctive she is would be the drop shop volley she hit against Serena at Berlin :)

Mazza
May 25th, 2002, 10:06 PM
I find that the british media (at least BBC, The Guardian and other serious sitles) is far less biased than the americans for example, who only pay attention to their own players.
I have to say I disagree with that comment.... Tim Henman- I think that explains itself.

But I do agree with what the BBC have said about Justine. She has a great game with an excellent backhand.

Fingon
May 25th, 2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by cmon kim

I have to say I disagree with that comment.... Tim Henman- I think that explains itself.

But I do agree with what the BBC have said about Justine. She has a great game with an excellent backhand.

You might be right on that, I never read articles about ATP players

Hagar
May 25th, 2002, 10:11 PM
That was a HUGE shot.
I was watching the match on the German TV and the commentator is an older guy who must have seen a lot of tennis matches in his life and he was YELLING when he saw this shot.
Yeah, there are a lot of "Oh's" and "WOW's" in the crowd when Justine is playing.
I'm a bit more a Kim-fan than a Justine-fan and Kim is spectacular because she's so lethal, but Justine is absolutely sensational. What a bless for women's tennis. One of the great things about Justine is that she generates so much power in her strokes just because of her technique; she just hits the ball at the right moment.
Have to stop here, I'm just drooling when I think of what we are about to see the next two weeks...

:drool:

irma
May 25th, 2002, 10:17 PM
no fingon you are lucky that you don't have to watch the bbc during wimbledon :o;)

Shane54
May 25th, 2002, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by irma
nothing against Justine but the greatest and best backhand ever talk after each beautiful point she makes with it is sometimes very annoying(I blame that on the commentators though, not on her)

I have to agree on that one. Although I do like Justine, it does get annoying. I think everyone knows by now that Justine has a "fluid, beautiful, mesmerizing, out of this world" backhand. Unfortunately, in tennis you have to hit forehands, serves, and returns also.

I mean do we hear that kind of talk when Venus smacks an ace down someone's throat?

the cat
May 25th, 2002, 11:26 PM
For months bow, I've said that Henin is pound for pound the most talented player in women's tennis. The big difference between Justine and Martina is that Martina can't hit winners from all over the court the way Juju can. And Martina, despite being bigger than Henin, doesn't have nearly as much pop and power as Justine.

Williams Rulez
May 26th, 2002, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Shane54


I have to agree on that one. Although I do like Justine, it does get annoying. I think everyone knows by now that Justine has a "fluid, beautiful, mesmerizing, out of this world" backhand. Unfortunately, in tennis you have to hit forehands, serves, and returns also.

I mean do we hear that kind of talk when Venus smacks an ace down someone's throat? I agree with this too... :D

And for that matter, I do think that she is very talented, but in my opinion... Lindsay is more talented. To win so often while being so slow and relatively unatheletic, you must be talented... ;)

But seriously, Lindsay has a lot of touch with power, she can do almost anything, but that is just my opinion... :)

Asmus
May 26th, 2002, 02:51 AM
I still think Hingis has more natural talent. Williamses, Capriati, Clijsters, Mauresmo are the best athletes but not the most talented.

barmaid
May 26th, 2002, 02:55 AM
No question Justine possesses the best backhand in women's tennis...but natural talent wise I'd have to give the nod to Martina at the moment because of her versatility but there is no doubt about the fact that Henin has a talent to be recognized for some time to come! :D Good luck to the Belgium gals at RG!!:)


barmaid:wavey:

Mercury Rising
May 26th, 2002, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Shane54


I have to agree on that one. Although I do like Justine, it does get annoying. I think everyone knows by now that Justine has a "fluid, beautiful, mesmerizing, out of this world" backhand. Unfortunately, in tennis you have to hit forehands, serves, and returns also.

I mean do we hear that kind of talk when Venus smacks an ace down someone's throat?
Yes, we do here this kind of crap about how powerful they are, how hard they can hit, for years now.
Justine is only one year in the spotlights and you are allready annoyed. :rolleyes: pffffffffffffffffffff

rhz
May 26th, 2002, 11:11 AM
Isn't Tennis invented in India?

ot1962
May 26th, 2002, 04:11 PM
Guys,
We have to stop comparing talent in relation to size!
Henin is very talented, so is Hingis. But the most talented? I beg to differ. If one is judged to be most talented based on their deft touch, beauty of a particular shot, intricasy of pley etc., then tennis players are not Athletes then. In that case the most talented player must be that Iranian guy who plays in the Senoir circuit with amazingly unbelievable shots.

Tennis is not a circus, it's a sports! You guys again and again try to convince yourselves that because she is smaller and the other top players are "BIGGER" and "POWERFUL". Since when did size started being an issue in tennis? When the sisters came around.
Monica, during the early 90's was considerably bigger that most of the other players, so was Sabatini, Graf. But did we hear anything about their size being a facor why they beat the other smaller players? Amanda used to clean Graf a lot and we know Graf substantially BIGGER than Amanda.

Now Testud and Pierce have has always been BIG, right? But Testud has always lost to Hingis. They were playing years before the Sisters came around. I never people talk about Mary's size when she won the Australian in 1995. Lindsay was even BIGGER before the sisters came around. If Size is such a huge reason why the "BIG" players are winning then most of the Basketbal players would be better off converting to tennis then.

The fact is, there is a NEW kind of tennis with the players been able to do thing unimaginable some few years back, and people are finding it difficult to accept enormous talents of this BIG, POWERFUL players. If Henin is able to generate so much power but players like Testud (just under 6 ft), Pam Shriver and even Sabatini couldn't, does that not convince you that power generation is not mainly about size? Unless Henin has this magnificent built-in force that she uses???

By the way i have heard more Ohs, AHs and WOws when Venus is playing than when Henin is playing, if that's a measure of Natural talent. Even if people believe SIZE is the deciding factor (Note, i am not claiming people say SIZE is the ONLY factor), DOes size not come naturally as well.

Of i could be construed as biased when i say Venus is the most talented because i am a fan. But i am open-minded, so please give me more convincing reasons why Henin could be the most talented? For me, watching Venus play is like watching a Ballerina in full flight. She floats on the court and she hits the most amazing shots, but of course people would say because she is bigger stronger etc. But people wake up!!! Size inders one's movement in tennis!!!!! Size is definitely a disadvantage, that's why we don't have wrestlers playing tennis.

nander
May 26th, 2002, 06:15 PM
I have some difficulty with the 'naturally' talented concept. No one is born knowing how to play tennis - good forehand/backhand.. the type of game that a player has, in my opinion reflects the type of training and coaching that they were exposed to during the formative years, the conditions under which they learned the game, their body type, the age at which they started to play and how their bodies reacted to the stresses of playing as they developed.
At one time, the suceess of black athletes at at the sprint races was supposedly due to their 'natural' talent which could only last for 100-maximum 400 metres. There was also a bit of talk re the Williams' sisters 'natural athleticism' often juxtaposed against Hingis' thinking/cerebral' game..not heard so much anymore. Need I continue?
I think Henin's great game reflects all the factors mentioned above...sometimes there are good resulta and sometimes not. Nobody wins at whatever their sport is all the time.

Cybelle Darkholme
May 26th, 2002, 06:25 PM
I agree. This natural talent crap is just good old fashioned BS! These athletes trained hard and long and worked their bodies into shape. No one is born with the ability to play tennis, it must be taught.

The only thing you can have going for you that is natural is your height. Everything else takes hard work, if not for their work ethic these same tennis players could have ended up couch potatos!

Fingon
May 26th, 2002, 06:35 PM
Ot, I can't convince you otherwise not I intend so, if you think Venus is the most talented, fine for me.

For me Justine is way more talented, and it size does matter to deny it is just plain silly. You can't deny that a larger girl will be probably stronger than others. Maybe size is too limited, you should say athleticsm, quickness, strenght.

I haven't seen Venus in person, I have seen Serena and I didn't hear any oh! wow!, not that it defines anything but it does give the crowd's perception of the player's talent.

You find Venus fun to watch? well, to each his own, I recognize she is a terrific player but I find watching her quite boring. If she doesn't play one of my favourites I just don't watch her matches.

Regarding those who disregard "natural talent", so, in your opinion is all hard work and training.

Anyone can play basketball like Michael Jordan, anyone can play soccer like Maradona?

So, all the genetic theory is wrong, there are not intrinsic factors, there are not natural tendencies.

If you work hard enough, start at the right time, have the right coach you will be a succesful sport person :confused:

interesting.

Fingon
May 26th, 2002, 06:37 PM
One interesting thing to add. Maradona was one asked how he knew where his team mates where on the field without looking.

His answer was: "I don't know, I just know where they are"

Try to learn that

Mercury Rising
May 26th, 2002, 06:51 PM
Are there really people who don't believe in talent? That surprises me.

I just saw a Brazilian youth soccercoach, who said he didn't teach them their talent, they're born with it.

Martian KC
May 26th, 2002, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by irma
nothing against Justine but the greatest and best backhand ever talk after each beautiful point she makes with it is sometimes very annoying(I blame that on the commentators though, not on her)

Even Justine is annoyed by that comment. She's tired of people making a big deal about her backhand, plus she thinks her forehand is much better.;)lol

nander
May 26th, 2002, 06:53 PM
Fingon
Having difficulty with a concept is not to disregard it ... it is to invite discussion of the topic.
Please note that I talk of a combination of factors and the impact of environment ... maybe overiding all of this is the intense passion for the game.
NB...please note that the more information that we get about the human genome (from the Human Genome Project), the more surprised we are at how similar we in fact are!!

Not to be taken seriously, ... re Maradonna's answer - it just makes me wonder where his head was 'at'' when he gave that reply!!!

Fingon
May 26th, 2002, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by nander
Fingon
Having difficulty with a concept is not to disregard it ... it is to invite discussion of the topic.
Please note that I talk of a combination of factors and the impact of environment ... maybe overiding all of this is the intense passion for the game.
NB...please note that the more information that we get about the human genome (from the Human Genome Project), the more surprised we are at how similar we in fact are!!

Not to be taken seriously, ... re Maradonna's answer - it just makes me wonder where his head was 'at'' when he gave that reply!!!

Ok, point taken :)

Of course it's a combination of factors to make a great player.

But notice that the article doesn't say that Justine is the best player, it says she is the most naturally talented, that means she had a good structure to start off, the rest depended (and depens) on her and other factors.

Regarding Maradona, he was an instinctive player. He learned how to play soccer in what it's called "potreros" in Argentina. Those are open areas surrounding very poor neighbourhoods where children play soccer all day. It's said that increases the ability because it's way more difficult to dominate the ball there than on a normal field, and there must be some truth on that because most of the most talented argentinian players are from that environment. That's true in the case of Brazil as well.

Cybelle Darkholme
May 26th, 2002, 08:20 PM
I am all for intuition thats a given. Everyone has intuition, some may have it more than others. However I strongly disagree that michael jordan, Beckham or any athlete you care to name can just be born live any kind of life and then just step into a sport and become a world class athlete with no training or anything. how much sense does that make?

ot1962
May 26th, 2002, 11:00 PM
Fingon,
I know i cannot convince you Venus is the most naturally talented player. But the reason is in your posting. I mean, by natural i assume we are talking about inate talent rather than thought one? From that premise the ONLY natural talent that Nenin ( at least that i know of) is her one-handed back hand.

I admit that power tennis is not the cup of tea for some fans here but one cannot ignore "Venus floating like a Butterfly, stinging like a Bee" when hitting those schwing volleys. If you have tapes of US Open 2000 against Hingis, please go back and replay in slow motion. Please put your emotions of Hingis's bitter loss aside;)

Fingon, again you are right size does matter (as in other things;) ), but it is a LIABILITY not an advantage. It inhibits your movement. So these "Big" girls floating and moving so fluently on court are extra special. Danvenport compared Venus' ability to retrieve to the Legendary retriever, ASV, the difference is Venus return with a BITE. It's easy for us to not realize how difficult it is to play that way. If it's easy you would see a lot of other players doing it. That's more likely to be a Natural ability.

Fingon, before the Sisters came along, could you tell me if a players incredible ability has been attributed to their size? Why has it started been an issue all of a sudden. To me, it's just a way of refusing to give credit where oit's due. I know most people would agree the Sisters are great players. That's no rocket science. It would be STUPID for anyone to say otherwise. They are MORE that just great players!!! Because they have exhibit talents which the top tennis pundits thought were impossible. People have now started to get used to theur talents.

Hitting winners from awkward positions does not have a lot to do with size. It has everything to do with technique, racket speed and strength (strength does not eqauate size, otherwise Mike Tyson would not be knocking down fighters twice his size). That why Henin is able to do it as well. The evidence is right in your face but people try to explain the Sisters ability to do that to Size but says Henin does it for the above reasons. They all do it for exactly the same reason. The difference is the Sisters' ball would come to you a bit faster than Henin's.

Fingon
May 26th, 2002, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by ot1962
Fingon,
I know i cannot convince you Venus is the most naturally talented player. But the reason is in your posting. I mean, by natural i assume we are talking about inate talent rather than thought one? From that premise the ONLY natural talent that Nenin ( at least that i know of) is her one-handed back hand.

:confused: did you see that drop shop volley against Serena? Of course, you have your opinion, I have mine.

I admit that power tennis is not the cup of tea for some fans here but one cannot ignore "Venus floating like a Butterfly, stinging like a Bee" when hitting those schwing volleys. If you have tapes of US Open 2000 against Hingis, please go back and replay in slow motion. Please put your emotions of Hingis's bitter loss aside;)

If I liked to see people "floating like a butterly" (which is of course how you see it, I would follow ballet, or figure skating, the swinging volley isn't a particulary appealing shot to me and believe me, shot making is way more than that.

And thank you, I don't watch Venus' current matches, you don't want me to watch her old one do you? I have seen enough of her and I found Venus "floating like a butterfly" quite boring, sorry.


Fingon, again you are right size does matter (as in other things;) ), but it is a LIABILITY not an advantage. It inhibits your movement. So these "Big" girls floating and moving so fluently on court are extra special. Danvenport compared Venus' ability to retrieve to the Legendary retriever, ASV, the difference is Venus return with a BITE. It's easy for us to not realize how difficult it is to play that way. If it's easy you would see a lot of other players doing it. That's more likely to be a Natural ability.

Excuse me???? what??? where??? size a liability?

1) Capriati: 5'8.5" (heavily built)
2) V. Williams: 6'1" (slim)
3) S. Williams: 5'8" (heavily built)
4) Kim Clijsters: 5'8.5" (heavily built)
5) Justine Henin: 5'5 3/4" (slim)
6) Monica Seles: 5'10.5" (heavily built)
7) Lindsay Davenport: 6'2.5" (heavily built)
8) Martina Hingis
9) Jelena Dokic
10) Sandrine Testud

you get the point, I don't need to keep looking do I?

Basically, for you natural talent is the ability to run fast and smoothly on the court, isn't that athletism? :confused:


Fingon, before the Sisters came along, could you tell me if a players incredible ability has been attributed to their size? Why has it started been an issue all of a sudden. To me, it's just a way of refusing to give credit where oit's due. I know most people would agree the Sisters are great players. That's no rocket science. It would be STUPID for anyone to say otherwise. They are MORE that just great players!!! Because they have exhibit talents which the top tennis pundits thought were impossible. People have now started to get used to theur talents.


Nope that would be stupid and I wouldnever say that a player's ability is due to her size, we first need to define ability for what?

The Williams are good players? no doubts about that, what makes them different? their power, you don't want to call it size? call it muscles, athletism.

Do one thing, take Serena, reduce her serve speed to hmmm 100 mph in average, reduce her groundstrokes power to Justine's level, reduce her speed on the court, reduce her reachment.

Do you honestly think she would be winning that much?

The Williams have a lot of talent, power and speed, Davenport has power and talent, but not speed, Hingis has talent and speed, but not power, Mary has talent and power but not speed, do you ask why they win? there you go.

I don't understand why for some fans it's a personal offense that their favourites are regarded because of their power, it's evident in the Williams sisters that power is a key component of their game, it's not the only thing they have but it's certainly very, very important, their shot making, footwork isn't good enough to take them to the top without that power and speed.

Hitting winners from awkward positions does not have a lot to do with size. It has everything to do with technique, racket speed and strength (strength does not eqauate size, otherwise Mike Tyson would not be knocking down fighters twice his size). That why Henin is able to do it as well. The evidence is right in your face but people try to explain the Sisters ability to do that to Size but says Henin does it for the above reasons. They all do it for exactly the same reason. The difference is the Sisters' ball would come to you a bit faster than Henin's.

The comparisson with Tyson isn't very happy, anyways, hitting winners from awkward positions does have a lot to do with size, if you are not tall enough you need to add topspin to your shots, if you are tall, you can hit the ball flat, also, as strenght is related to size, if they didn't hit so hard, they wouldn't be winners. Martina Hingis can have perfect placement from anywhere on the court, but without enough power, they are often not winners.

If you see Justine and Serena side to side, can you honestly say there isn't a difference? huh?, the fact that Justine can generate power with her size is was makes her special.

Plus, the day I see Venus and Serena hitting the type of shots Justine do I will change my mind.

Plus you are confusing talent with being the best, there are related but they are not the same thing.

ot1962
May 27th, 2002, 04:41 AM
Henin hits with more power than Martina although Martina is bigger. So that tells me strength is not related to size. Otherwise the Pam Shrivers and Sabatinis of the past tennis era would have been able to hit with power.

Well if you reduce Serena Serve speed etc. as you described earlier then Henin would be most powerful player when they play, Would you then turn on Henin and say she relies on power to win her matches.

No doubt Henin is talented, and i admired the volley she played against Serena but do you honestly tell me she planned to play it that way. You see, i could have looked at it from a different perspective and say her movement was all screwed up, that's why she ended up in that situation in the first place. SHe improvised very well! It was by choice that she was ahead of the ball, she was put in that position by a superb play by Serena.

I agree with you that the power is a key element in the games of the sisters. Just as it is a very key element in a player like Henin's game. Power is a very crucial element for the success Henin is having. It seems her power seems understandable because she is of smaller frame. POWER is POWER is POWER wheter it's generated by a 5 year, 10 or 19 year old. There are a lot of big players who cannot generate the power Henin generates.
Henin without power, would not be fit to clean Martina's shoes. So i would say Henin relies just any of the power players.
Okay, do you compare the fantastic volleys of Henin to the shot Serena played when even Henin herself was applauding? But that was one off, right? It doesn't count. The difference was Serena actually planned that shot because she had another option of playing down the down, which was a far easier option but CHOSE to play that unbelievable shot. Henin's case, she was WRONG-FOOTED and she had only one CHOICE!!! Most players would not have been succeful with that shot because it is a very low-percentage shot.

Are you saying Athletism is not talent??? The last time i checked tennis is a sport not a CIRCUS. I know the Sisters do not get a lot "Ohs, Ahs and Wows" from you;) I am saying they have in the past got more "Ohs, Ahs and Wows" from tennis crowds than Henin has. Their amazing athletism speed etc. are unmatched and these are built on NATURAL TALENTs. Henin's game is broad based on power and speed, BROADLY. Now if you say Martina's game is BROADLY based on touch and intricate play the n YES, i would agree but not Henin. No matter how you convince yourself that's the fact, otherwise people would not be comparing her to Martina and wonder why Martina cannot generate such P-O-W-E-R.