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View Full Version : Should RG raise Justine to the #4 seed and demote Sharapova to #5?


vogus
May 25th, 2006, 04:01 PM
right now, Henin is listed at #5 and Sharapova at #4. Everybody knows that this is a skewed seeding. The RG committee has the power of discretionary seeding, so why don't they step in and do something about this, like Wimbledon would? The French are so passive.

morningglory
May 25th, 2006, 04:03 PM
they've never done it b4 and they go by the rankings no matter what.

goldenlox
May 25th, 2006, 04:03 PM
Sharapova has reached at least the semis all year.
She earned her ranking

saki
May 25th, 2006, 04:05 PM
No. Justine won it last year seeded #8, she can win it seeded #5. It doesn't really make that much difference to her. Maria earned her ranking.

xin_hui
May 25th, 2006, 04:07 PM
no point discussing. it did not happen

Paneru
May 25th, 2006, 04:17 PM
right now, Henin is listed at #5 and Sharapova at #4. Everybody knows that this is a skewed seeding. The RG committee has the power of discretionary seeding, so why don't they step in and do something about this, like Wimbledon would? The French are so passive.

Wimbledon wouldn't either,
you actually think they'll boost
Venus' seeding? Don't think so.

they only ever do it for the men.

tennisjay
May 25th, 2006, 04:21 PM
right now, Henin is listed at #5 and Sharapova at #4. Everybody knows that this is a skewed seeding. The RG committee has the power of discretionary seeding, so why don't they step in and do something about this, like Wimbledon would? The French are so passive.


I think it really doesn't matter to Justine, because she knows whos the better player.

RJWCapriati
May 25th, 2006, 04:22 PM
It really doesn't matter what seed Justine is, she can beat anyone on clay.

tennisjay
May 25th, 2006, 04:31 PM
It really doesn't matter what seed Justine is, she can beat anyone on clay.


I was thinking the same thing.

msharafan
May 25th, 2006, 04:34 PM
you would tennisjay but ill just ignore you, sharapova has earnt her ranking and if we were to follow the rankings its fair to say sharapova is better than justine. justine may be better on clay, but you could say the same about maria on grass. the seedings should stay as they are.

vogus
May 25th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Wimbledon wouldn't either,
you actually think they'll boost
Venus' seeding? Don't think so.

they only ever do it for the men.


no, they've done it for the women as well, although not as prominently.

If Venus gets seeded 12th as a 3-time champion and 5-time finalist, i'll be shocked. At minimum Wimby will bump her up to top 8, and maybe even top 4. So to change Henin from 5 to 4 at RG is not a big step really.

Paneru
May 25th, 2006, 04:37 PM
no, they've done it for the women as well, although not as prominently.

If Venus gets seeded 12th as a 3-time champion and 5-time finalist, i'll be shocked. At minimum Wimby will bump her up to top 8, and maybe even top 4. So to change Henin from 5 to 4 at RG is not a big step really.

They didn't last year as she was a two time champ
and four time finalist so I don't see what one more
final and title would change.

Roddick hasn't won or nearly been in as many finals
and he always gets bumped up by them.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if
Venus' seeding didn't get a boost
regardless of her great record there.

GoDominique
May 25th, 2006, 04:38 PM
No.

tennisjay
May 25th, 2006, 04:51 PM
you would tennisjay but ill just ignore you, sharapova has earnt her ranking and if we were to follow the rankings its fair to say sharapova is better than justine. justine may be better on clay, but you could say the same about maria on grass. the seedings should stay as they are.


Iím not hear to argue, Iím just hear to have a friendly discussion about tennis. Now stop it. :kiss:

No.1Hingis
May 25th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Nop.. Sharapova.. deserve the rank.. Justine can really play as good in every draw part... diference is not in her rank.. is in her game..

FrOzon
May 25th, 2006, 04:56 PM
If Venus gets seeded 12th as a 3-time champion and 5-time finalist, i'll be shocked. At minimum Wimby will bump her up to top 8, and maybe even top 4. So to change Henin from 5 to 4 at RG is not a big step really.

As far as I know isn't it just a bump but a formula including grass tournaments within the last (two???) years...

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:02 PM
if we were to follow the rankings its fair to say sharapova is better than justine. justine may be better on clay, but you could say the same about maria on grass. the seedings should stay as they are.
No sorry. Justine is just better. She taught Maria a lesson last year at RG. And if they were to meet on grass, it would be close. Not saying Maria can't win, but I guarantee you, it's a tight match. On hardcourts and clay, Justine wins almost 100% of the time against Maria.

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:05 PM
They didn't last year as she was a two time champ
and four time finalist so I don't see what one more
final and title would change.

Roddick hasn't won or nearly been in as many finals
and he always gets bumped up by them.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if
Venus' seeding didn't get a boost
regardless of her great record there.
Yeah, but it's different. Queen Vee went out early at Wimbledon 2004 and didn't do much for the whole year. There was no reason to think she deserved a higher seed. Whereas Justine was RG champ last year and has already made a slam final this year. And even though she hasn't done quite as well in the warmup tourneys this year, she's still a better clay court player than Maria.

hingis-seles
May 25th, 2006, 05:11 PM
No.

tennisjay
May 25th, 2006, 05:11 PM
They didn't last year as she was a two time champ
and four time finalist so I don't see what one more
final and title would change.

Roddick hasn't won or nearly been in as many finals
and he always gets bumped up by them.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if
Venus' seeding didn't get a boost
regardless of her great record there.


You know itís a different set of rules for different people. In most cases they would boost Mariaís ranking in hopes for higher ratings, but thatís not going to cut it know that Venus and Martina rivalry has been renewed.

Paneru
May 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Yeah, but it's different. Queen Vee went out early at Wimbledon 2004 and didn't do much for the whole year. There was no reason to think she deserved a higher seed. Whereas Justine was RG champ last year and has already made a slam final this year. And even though she hasn't done quite as well in the warmup tourneys this year, she's still a better clay court player than Maria.

True, yet if they went by the last two years
and only by grass results she was still a finalist
in those two years so i still thought she would
deserve one. But she obviously doesn't and didn't
need it so it's all good. :D

I also guess because Roddick supports their
grass tune-up event as well they give him more
favor despite not having as stellar a record at
Wimbledon compared to Venus'.

I'm just saying that even being the defending Champ
I still don't see them giving Venus any boost and I'd be
very surprised if they did.

furrykitten
May 25th, 2006, 05:13 PM
The ranking is correct.

tterb
May 25th, 2006, 05:15 PM
I would say no, because in women's tennis, surface isn't nearly as big a factor for the top players as it is in men's tennis. And I wouldn't want to see a player who earned a high seed demoted simply because the lower ranked player either didn't play enough or didn't win enough to pass her.

That said, I would understand it if RG were to switch the seedings. It's not done to help Justine, as many people seem to think - obviously, she can beat anyone on clay, regardless of seed. Rather, the idea would be to make a fairer draw... as it stands Mauresmo or Petrova could face Justine in the QF, which would be one hell of a bad draw considering Justine is the best claycourter in the world. So the seeding change would be done to protect the other players from facing Justine earlier than they probably should. The same would be true for Venus, one of the best grass court players in the world, at Wimbledon (although it's easier to bump a player up one seed than to move her from a #12 to a #8, since there's only about 100 points separating the #4 and #5 in the rankings, as opposed to almost 700 separating #8 and #12).

Hopefully, Maria will draw Justine and this will all be a moot point.

xin_hui
May 25th, 2006, 05:18 PM
Hopefully, Maria will draw Justine and this will all be a moot point.

:bowdown: yes justine. please draw sharapova and leave kim/amelie alone :scared:

tterb
May 25th, 2006, 05:23 PM
Yeah, but it's different. Queen Vee went out early at Wimbledon 2004 and didn't do much for the whole year. There was no reason to think she deserved a higher seed. Whereas Justine was RG champ last year and has already made a slam final this year. And even though she hasn't done quite as well in the warmup tourneys this year, she's still a better clay court player than Maria.
Good points. This year, though, I'd say there's more merit to the idea of raising Venus' seed at Wimbledon. Hopefully her ranking will be up by then anyway, but if not it will be interesting to see what they decide to do.

Chris 84
May 25th, 2006, 05:29 PM
No, no and no. Wimbledon's seeding committee makes a mockery of the ranking system every year, no need for RG to follow suit. Its so open to abuse as well. For years Wimbledon has helped British players by seeding them higher than they ever should have been....heck, I bet Henman is seeded at Wimbledon this year :rolleyes:

furrykitten
May 25th, 2006, 05:31 PM
:bowdown: yes justine. please draw sharapova and leave kim/amelie alone :scared:

Scared Kim would take a whipping off Justine then?

terjw
May 25th, 2006, 05:32 PM
Wimbledon wouldn't either,
you actually think they'll boost
Venus' seeding? Don't think so.

they only ever do it for the men.


no, they've done it for the women as well, although not as prominently.

If Venus gets seeded 12th as a 3-time champion and 5-time finalist, i'll be shocked. At minimum Wimby will bump her up to top 8, and maybe even top 4. So to change Henin from 5 to 4 at RG is not a big step really.

Yes they did used to do it for the women at Wimbledon - but you're talking ages ago.

I agree with Paneru for nowadays. A precedence of not changing the women's seeds from the rankings seems to have been set. And I'd be amazed if 2006 was any different.

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Yeah, but it's different. Queen Vee went out early at Wimbledon 2004 and didn't do much for the whole year. There was no reason to think she deserved a higher seed. Whereas Justine was RG champ last year and has already made a slam final this year. And even though she hasn't done quite as well in the warmup tourneys this year, she's still a better clay court player than Maria.

You know what's missin' in my life?

xin_hui
May 25th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Scared Kim would take a whipping off Justine then?

yes, i acknowledge justine's the best on clay. any problem with that?

and since sharapova's the weakest on clay amongst the top 4 seeds, it'd be better for justine to draw sharapova so she becomes the de facto 4th seed and then we can have a great semi final line up ;)

tenn_ace
May 25th, 2006, 05:39 PM
no point discussing. it did not happen


exactly :worship:

hablo
May 25th, 2006, 05:41 PM
:bowdown: yes justine. please draw sharapova and leave kim/amelie alone :scared:
:bowdown::lol:

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:41 PM
You know what's missin' in my life?
A hit movie.

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:43 PM
Hopefully, Maria will draw Justine and this will all be a moot point.
Indeed. I'll never get tired of seeing Maria take a clay-court beat down from Justine.

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 05:46 PM
A hit movie.

Pfft. I want a kid, a baby.

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Pfft. I want a kid, a baby.
You're too vain to be pregnant.

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 05:49 PM
You're too vain to be pregnant.

I can't have any. I was pregnant 7 times with Franchot. I lost them all.

I'm going to adopt one.

The_Pov
May 25th, 2006, 05:50 PM
Indeed. I'll never get tired of seeing Maria take a clay-court beat down from Justine.

Wouldn't it be more satisfying to see Justine 'trash' Maria on grass? cos we all know clay is Maria's worst surface and she's not going to push herself against Justine on Clay because she knows she'll lose and she'd rather save her energies for Wimby.

xin_hui
May 25th, 2006, 05:51 PM
Wouldn't it be more satisfying to see Justine 'trash' Maria on grass? cos we all know clay is Maria's worst surface and she's not going to push herself against Justine on Clay because she knows she'll lose and she'd rather save her energies for Wimby.

you're finding excuses already? :eek:






j/k :p

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:54 PM
I can't have any. I was pregnant 7 times with Franchot. I lost them all.

I'm going to adopt one.
Out of the question. No agency would give you a baby.

furrykitten
May 25th, 2006, 05:55 PM
No one expects Maria to do anything at RG, getting to the 3rd would be anchievement given her Injury problems and lack of matches.

faboozadoo15
May 25th, 2006, 05:56 PM
I was thinking the same thing.
but you feel the need to say it ten times as big.

you, and your posts, are a waste of space.

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 05:56 PM
Out of the question. No agency would give you a baby.

Why not? I could take care of kid, teach to amount to something, I know I could!

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 05:57 PM
Why not? I could take care of kid, teach to amount to something, I know I could!

Maybe you could. You're an actress, you've been divorced twice. Adoption agencies can be brutal. Besides, a baby needs a father.

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Maybe you could. You're an actress, you've been divorced twice. Adoption agencies can be brutal. Besides, a baby needs a father.

A father? A father? I never had a father! Ma changed husbands faster than she changed bedsheets. Ma! With her sloppiness and her dirt. I could be a mother and a father to a kid.

GrandSlam05
May 25th, 2006, 06:03 PM
A father? A father? I never had a father! Ma changed husbands faster than she changed bedsheets. Ma! With her sloppiness and her dirt. I could be a mother and a father to a kid.
One thing's certain, you'd sure get a lot of publicity.

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 06:06 PM
One thing's certain, you'd sure get a lot of publicity.

Is that all you think about? Publicity. Deeeals. Box Office. Why don't you try to understand a woman?

vogus
May 25th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Is that all you think about? Publicity. Deeeals. Box Office. Why don't you try to understand a woman?


Helen and GrandSlam, please, pretty please, don't hijack my thread, use the PMs for your private conversations, thanx...

Helen Lawson
May 25th, 2006, 06:11 PM
Helen and GrandSlam, please, pretty please, don't hijack my thread, use the PMs for your private conversations, thanx...

Alright, hon, only for you (and maybe a few others) would I stop my hijacking ways. I didn't notice it was yours, sorry.

Anyway, I think it's bullshit to monkey with the seedings at any tournament.

vogus
May 25th, 2006, 06:16 PM
Alright, hon, only for you (and maybe a few others) would I stop my hijacking ways. I didn't notice it was yours, sorry.

Anyway, I think it's bullshit to monkey with the seedings at any tournament.


most of the time i don't mind, but for this thread i'm really trolling for some juicy on-topic responses. Thanx.

Scots Kim Fan
May 25th, 2006, 06:19 PM
yes justine should definitely get the number 4 seeding ahead of maria.

The_Pov
May 25th, 2006, 06:25 PM
you're finding excuses already? :eek:






j/k :p

No not yet:p

Just saying that Justine beating Maria is nothign special and nothing to make a song and dance about, on grass and that'd be another matter.

Dexter
May 25th, 2006, 06:26 PM
It doesn't really matter for Justine :)

mr_burns
May 25th, 2006, 06:27 PM
at the end they will draw 4 and 5 in the same quarter an we don't have to discuss this

thrust
May 25th, 2006, 06:40 PM
Justine has beaten Maria in the AO smenfinals and Dubai finals, both non clay court torunaments. Whatever, either 4 or 5 will make little difference to Justine at the FO. I would not be surprised if Maria didn^t even make the semis this year, considering she has not played any tournament since Miami. Not having played any clay court tennis for nearly a year is bad for Maria chances at this year^s FO.

WIMBLY2004
May 25th, 2006, 11:11 PM
Why just move JHH ahead of Maria, if they want to mess the seeding, why not re-rank the players with their ability on clay, no way Clijsters, Mauresmo and Petrova are ahead of JHH, bump them down as well. And do it again in Wimbledon, move Maria, Davenport and Venus ahead and bump the likes of Clijsters/Petrova down, I want to see what the people in the board will say :lol:

IceHock
May 25th, 2006, 11:14 PM
nope,the ranking besides their name shoul stick because that is what they've earned and to give someone a higher ranking than someone based on tournament past is wrong,i hate wimbledon for doing it this way

Buitenzorg
May 25th, 2006, 11:39 PM
well, no matter what the seeded will be for Justine or Maria

I reckon seed #4 & #5 would probably face each other in the QF!

Kart
May 25th, 2006, 11:48 PM
most of the time i don't mind, but for this thread i'm really trolling for some juicy on-topic responses. Thanx.

It's warming up.

Greenout
May 25th, 2006, 11:52 PM
well, no matter what the seeded will be for Justine or Maria

I reckon seed #4 & #5 would probably face each other in the QF!


The seeding doesn't really matter among the top 8 Justine would have to face Amelie, Nadia or Kim in some combination anyway. What matters is bumping Sveta up to #8 instead of now 9, and dropping Mary.

vogus
May 25th, 2006, 11:58 PM
The seeding doesn't really matter among the top 8 Justine would have to face Amelie, Nadia or Kim in some combination anyway. What matters is bumping Sveta up to #8 instead of now 9, and dropping Mary.


well, they couldn't really drop Pierce with her being a former champ and last year's finalist - even though she is a pigeon seed who will probably be upset in the first 3 rounds.

Scots Kim Fan
May 26th, 2006, 12:02 AM
Why just move JHH ahead of Maria, if they want to mess the seeding, why not re-rank the players with their ability on clay, no way Clijsters, Mauresmo and Petrova are ahead of JHH, bump them down as well. And do it again in Wimbledon, move Maria, Davenport and Venus ahead and bump the likes of Clijsters/Petrova down, I want to see what the people in the board will say :lol:

If the tournament organisers are going to alter the seedings for grand slams then I think it should take into account both current form and past success at the tournament.

So were Kim still to be at no.2 or even no.1 in the world by the time Wimbledon comes round, then I agree that she should not be one of the top two seeds and should perhaps drop down to 3 or 4 based on her past performances on grass.

Therefore you can see that I am not a biased Kim fan and so hope that you appreciate I am making an honest judgement on the Justine issue by saying that she should be ranked higher than Maria. This is in no way a slight on Maria because I actually have a lot of respect for her.

That said however, altering seedings according to both past and current form is very subjective (e.g there is case for Kim having a high seeding at RG because she has reached two finals but there is also those who would say she does not deserve to be in the top four on clay due to her inconsistency on the surface). Therefore, perhaps it would be easier if the seedings were based purely on world rankings.

Hope that makes sense! :D :angel: