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View Full Version : Martina STILL intimidated by Venus?


spokenword73
May 4th, 2006, 06:07 PM
WARSAW, Poland -- Venus Williams overcame leg cramps and an inconsistent serve to beat Martina Hingis 4-6, 7-5, 6-4 Thursday in the second round of the J&S Cup.



http://espn-att.starwave.com/photo/2006/0504/ten_a_mhvw_275.jpg
AP Photo
Martina Hingis, left, and Venus Williams hadn't played since 2002.




It was the first meeting between the former top-ranked players since 2002 in Hamburg, Germany.

"I'm very elated," Williams said. "This is a match that seems like I should have lost toward the end, but I didn't feel that way even though I was in a lot of pain and dire circumstances."

The 13th-ranked Williams received medical treatment for leg cramps at 1-1 in the third set.

Williams played only her third match of the year, having been sidelined since the Australian Open with a strained right elbow. The 25th-ranked Hingis is back on the WTA Tour after an almost three-year hiatus.

Both players struggled with their serve, and both broke twice to open the match.

Hingis held serve to lead 5-4 in the first set, then needed five break points before Williams netted a two-handed backhand.

Trailing 3-1 in the second set, Williams earned a break point when her backhand clipped the net and fell in, then hit a forehand winner to go back on serve.

At 5-4, Williams double-faulted twice to fall to 0-30, but rallied to hold with forehand winners, a Hingis error, and an ace down the middle. She then broke Hingis at 5-5 and served out the set.

"I felt like in the first game of the third set I was finally getting back to normal and hitting my shots and less errors and then boom, here come the cramps," Williams said. "I was thinking, if this keeps happening, hopefully I can move, but I definitely wanted to finish the match."

The players traded breaks early in the third. Tied 4-4, Williams won a break point with a two-handed backhand crosscourt winner, then Hingis hit a backhand long to trail 5-4. Williams served out the match.

Hingis called her own serve "disgusting."

"When she's standing there you get maybe a little intimidated," Hingis said. "I was trying to go for too much and missed it by a little bit."

Also Thursday, Svetlana Kuznetsova of Russia beat Tsvetana Pironkova of Bulgaria 6-3, 6-1, and Ana Ivanovic of Serbia-Montenegro defeated Patty Schnyder of Switzerland 6-3, 6-2. Anna Chakvetadze of Russia beat Daniela Hantuchova of Slovakia 6-4, 6-3.

Infiniti2001
May 4th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Martina STILL intimidated by Venus?

Nah, she just hasn't realized that the days of waiting for Venus to self-destruct are long gone :shrug:

darrinbaker00
May 4th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Nah, she just hasn't realized that the days of waiting for Venus to self-destruct are long gone :shrug:
Like January 16 in Melbourne, perhaps? :tape:

I tried to resist, but I couldn't.

Foot_Fault
May 4th, 2006, 06:14 PM
WHOA, did she admit this???

"When she's standing there you get maybe a little intimidated," Hingis said. "I was trying to go for too much and missed it by a little bit."

aholloway
May 4th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Of course she is still intimidated by Venus. The pair have not played since 2002, and The Williams Sisters were a large part of her decision to quit the tour. She was facing her greatest fear.

GrandSlam05
May 4th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Well, she is but she shouldn't be. Vee is not nearly the player she was when she was handing beat-downs to Hingis. Get over it Martina!

dreamgoddess099
May 4th, 2006, 07:02 PM
I think she means she was intimidated when serving because of where Venus was standing to recieve. Which is exactly why Venus stands so far inside the court when recieving. :lol:

Paneru
May 4th, 2006, 07:07 PM
Well, she is but she shouldn't be. Vee is not nearly the player she was when she was handing beat-downs to Hingis. Get over it Martina!

True, she's better.

Venus used to be all or nothing which got her victories
over Hingis but which also handed her losses and down
in their h2h until today.

Venus can still hit hard, but she's thiknking
out there more as well. True that it's harder
for venus to play consistently these days
especially with all the injuries but she's still as
dangerous as she ever was.

And neither handed each other beatdowns except
for the beginning and in the middle for Martina(i.e. 01' AO)

Diesel
May 4th, 2006, 07:09 PM
I think she means she was intimidated when serving because of where Venus was standing to recieve. Which is exactly why Venus stands so far inside the court when recieving. :lol:

Yeppers :lol:

GrandSlam05
May 4th, 2006, 07:40 PM
True, she's better.

Venus used to be all or nothing which got her victories
over Hingis but which also handed her losses and down
in their h2h until today.

Venus can still hit hard, but she's thiknking
out there more as well. True that it's harder
for venus to play consistently these days
especially with all the injuries but she's still as
dangerous as she ever was.

And neither handed each other beatdowns except
for the beginning and in the middle for Martina(i.e. 01' AO)
BS. There were no weaknesses at all when she went through her dominant periods. Nowadays, she rarely shows her best form and even when it pops up she can't keep it up for the whole match very often.
There is no way she is better nowadays. She stunk up the place at RG. Then shehe played great at Wimbledon last year, but no better than 00-01. And she couldn't keep it up like in the old days. She should've beaten Kim at the USO and couldn't.
Thinking more out there? Thinking is what gets Vee into trouble. Her game isn't made for thinking. Hit and run. That's what she needs to do to win.

Infiniti2001
May 4th, 2006, 07:43 PM
Like January 16 in Melbourne, perhaps? :tape:

I tried to resist, but I couldn't.

:haha: :haha: :rolls: Okay I'll give you that one, but I meant against chucky :lol:

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 08:40 PM
Well, she is but she shouldn't be. Vee is not nearly the player she was when she was handing beat-downs to Hingis. Get over it Martina!yeah, but still good enough to send Hingis packing and be the reigning Wimbledon Champion. :lol:

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 08:44 PM
BS. There were no weaknesses at all when she went through her dominant periods. Nowadays, she rarely shows her best form and even when it pops up she can't keep it up for the whole match very often.
There is no way she is better nowadays. She stunk up the place at RG. Then shehe played great at Wimbledon last year, but no better than 00-01. And she couldn't keep it up like in the old days. She should've beaten Kim at the USO and couldn't.
Thinking more out there? Thinking is what gets Vee into trouble. Her game isn't made for thinking. Hit and run. That's what she needs to do to win.Venus had the same weaknesses in her game now that she did then: 1)Weak second serve causing her either to default or roll it in to get it into play or 2)Loss of concentration/let down during a match or 3)fh goes off.
With all the same faults, she is still better than most of the tour easily and even the best players she can smack down at will.

GrandSlam05
May 4th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Venus had the same weaknesses in her game now that she did then: 1)Weak second serve causing her either to default or roll it in to get it into play or 2)Loss of concentration/let down during a match or 3)fh goes off.
With all the same faults, she is still better than most of the tour easily and even the best players she can smack down at will.
Smack down at will? Do you think she wanted to lose to Karantancheva, Clijsters, Pironkova?
Of course she is still better than the rest of the tour even when not at her best. So is Serena, Lindsay, Justine, Kim, etc.
And those weaknesses you mention pop up far more often nowadays than they did back then though, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to dominate.
She found her groove last year at Wimbledon, but she has yet to prove she can sustain that level for more than 2 weeks.

Lulu.
May 4th, 2006, 09:06 PM
Of course she is still intimidated by Venus. The pair have not played since 2002, and The Williams Sisters were a large part of her decision to quit the tour. She was facing her greatest fear.



Excatly...

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 09:07 PM
Smack down at will? Do you think she wanted to lose to Karantancheva, Clijsters, Pironkova?
Of course she is still better than the rest of the tour even when not at her best. So is Serena, Lindsay, Justine, Kim, etc.
And those weaknesses you mention pop up far more often nowadays than they did back then though, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to dominate.
She found her groove last year at Wimbledon, but she has yet to prove she can sustain that level for more than 2 weeks.still bitter are we?! :lol: She only has to sustain it for 2 weeks. When was the last time Lindsay sustained her great play for 2 weeks to the end of a grand slam final and hoisted the trophy?!! :tape:
Every player has weaknesses and Venus is no different, some days and some players are able to exploit those weaknesses. for Lindsay and Maria, it's their movement, Kim her fh and lack of aggression, Justine her size, Serena her fh and lack of fitness these days. All those players, Venus has beaten more often then not so for now h2hs tell us that she has been better than the best when she played them; Lindsay leads h2h, but is 0-3 against Venus in grand slam finals. smack down at will!

GrandSlam05
May 4th, 2006, 09:19 PM
still bitter are we?! :lol: She only has to sustain it for 2 weeks. When was the last time Lindsay sustained her great play for 2 weeks to the end of a grand slam final and hoisted the trophy?!! :tape:
Every player has weaknesses and Venus is no different, some days and some players are able to exploit those weaknesses. for Lindsay and Maria, it's their movement, Kim her fh and lack of aggression, Justine her size, Serena her fh and lack of fitness these days. All those players, Venus has beaten more often then not so for now h2hs tell us that she has been better than the best when she played them; Lindsay leads h2h, but is 0-3 against Venus in grand slam finals. smack down at will!
Bitter? All I was saying was that Venus is not as consistently good as she was a few years back when she was dominating. You're obviously wanting to turn this into personal war so you can bash Lindsay and others.
You're just too stupid to argue with, sorry. :lol:

WF4EVER
May 4th, 2006, 09:58 PM
Well, she is but she shouldn't be. Vee is not nearly the player she was when she was handing beat-downs to Hingis.

And Martina is? If you are suggesting that she is, then maybe she should re-retire because that leaves her right back where she was befroe she retired in the first place!

Neither player is the same as they were the last time they played but Martina today stood a much better chance than Venus. Damn! The girl was 2 points away from the match and Venus had all sorts of drama going on with her.

If Martina couldn't beat Venus today of all doubts, she'll have to do a whole lot more than just get over it; she'll have to get with it.

Summer Snow
May 4th, 2006, 10:01 PM
:bounce: I'd be scared too! :scared:

Pureracket
May 4th, 2006, 10:08 PM
You all are really falling for that?! LOL! Maybe we don't watch the same Martina Hingis.

The most admirable thing about Hingis' game is the fact that she is NOT intimidated by anybody. She is renowned for her flippancy, and now we really think she's intimidated?!?!? LOL!!!!!

Dana Marcy
May 4th, 2006, 10:17 PM
You all are really falling for that?! LOL! Maybe we don't watch the same Martina Hingis.

The most admirable thing about Hingis' game is the fact that she is NOT intimidated by anybody. She is renowned for her flippancy, and now we really think she's intimidated?!?!? LOL!!!!!

Couldn't agree more!!! Hingis didn't get to the top by being intimidated by anyone. She's too confident and knows she is better than 97% of the players on the tour to fear anyone.

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Bitter? All I was saying was that Venus is not as consistently good as she was a few years back when she was dominating. You're obviously wanting to turn this into personal war so you can bash Lindsay and others.
You're just too stupid to argue with, sorry. :lol:I like Lindsay; it's you I am starting not to like. Don't start no stuff, won't be any. Don't start dissing Venus and saying she's not the player she used to be. . .blah, blah, blah. Venus' weaknesses are no more glaring that anyone else's on tour. If Venus losses are attributed only to Venus' decline and not to everyone's elses improvement, then that's saying even more about her ability and giving no credit to your favs and the rest of the field. That's what is stupid! :wavey:

Summer Snow
May 4th, 2006, 10:39 PM
GrandSlam05 :retard:

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 10:39 PM
You all are really falling for that?! LOL! Maybe we don't watch the same Martina Hingis.

The most admirable thing about Hingis' game is the fact that she is NOT intimidated by anybody. She is renowned for her flippancy, and now we really think she's intimidated?!?!? LOL!!!!!They're Martina's words and she ought to know.
Either way, intimidated or not, she didn't have what it took today to take out Venus Ebony Starr Williams.

DemWilliamsGulls
May 5th, 2006, 12:06 AM
Hell I still say the whole WTA tour is still intimidated by Venus and Serena....I think they are just preying on them because they know their games are rusty and they dont play as much as they did when they dominating....when those girls are at their best....you better believe the WTA tour has something to be intimidated for! ;)

venus_rulez
May 5th, 2006, 01:23 AM
The whole intimidaton or "fear factor" thing is hard to measure and doesn't mean much anyway. The very best players don't need it to win matches, it just makes their job MUCH easier.

StarDuvallGrant
May 5th, 2006, 01:27 AM
Intimidation probably was the wrong word. She knew she was in trouble and she couldn't rectify her serve so the space was closing in on her with an opponent that wouldn't go away.

SAEKeithSerena
May 5th, 2006, 03:32 AM
wouldn't you be too? lol....loves venus

SAEKeithSerena
May 5th, 2006, 04:31 AM
venus:) so proud of you

junlee_vee
May 5th, 2006, 06:24 AM
So wait....sure Hingis had an injury, but didn't she retire because she couldn't compete with the Williams sisters, therefore; she was intimidated by them?

And I'm not saying this is fact, I'm just asking.

Hingie
May 5th, 2006, 07:48 AM
So wait....sure Hingis had an injury, but didn't she retire because she couldn't compete with the Williams sisters, therefore; she was intimidated by them?

And I'm not saying this is fact, I'm just asking.

I am sure it was a combination of her injury and the fact it was all getting a lot more difficult - she struggled to stay at the top and i think lost motivation to put in the hard work to maintain it or get better.

Sharapova's_Boy
May 5th, 2006, 08:53 AM
Like January 16 in Melbourne, perhaps? :tape:

I tried to resist, but I couldn't.

:haha:

vwfan
May 5th, 2006, 11:50 AM
I watched the clip. One of the things Venus did in the last couple service games of Hingis was to stands several feet inside the baseline to return serve. She sent a not so subtle message that: "if you get that ball anywhere in this box, i'm going to make you eat it." :lol: Then, she hit a few winners and deep returns in case her positioning was not clear enough.
That's pretty intimidating!

spencercarlos
May 5th, 2006, 12:05 PM
They're Martina's words and she ought to know.
Either way, intimidated or not, she didn't have what it took today to take out Venus Ebony Starr Williams.
It would have been a shame for Venus that a player that had been out for 4 years, and having played for only 8 tournaments, having fairly good results in most of them though, but still rusty, adapting to the tour after the layoff would beat the Today´s Defending Wimbledon Champion. You Venus´s fans act like Martina never retired and as if she was the big favorite against Venus today :lol:
Remmember last match they played it was a fairly easy 7-5 6-3 for Venus on this same surface.

Martina did not have enough sure, but it was just, just a litttle what separated Hingis from upsetting Venus.

spencercarlos
May 5th, 2006, 12:09 PM
I watched the clip. One of the things Venus did in the last couple service games of Hingis was to stands several feet inside the baseline to return serve. She sent a not so subtle message that: "if you get that ball anywhere in this box, i'm going to make you eat it." :lol: Then, she hit a few winners and deep returns in case her positioning was not clear enough.
That's pretty intimidating!
And indeed you know you are playing against a player that can´t move if the rally goes on, but Venus had the big return of serve to step in there and make you think, especially since Venus was going for off the return more than usual, because she needed to end the point soon.
It was the only strategy for Venus to win, in those cramp circunstances, and it worked for her, total credit for her.
Martina probably is still thinking that she should have done/ put more on her serve, and not being as helpless against those returns.

vwfan
May 5th, 2006, 12:12 PM
It would have been a shame for Venus that a player that had been out for 4 years, and having played for only 8 tournaments, having fairly good results in most of them though, but still rusty, adapting to the tour after the layoff would beat the Today´s Defending Wimbledon Champion. You Venus´s fans act like Martina never retired and as if she was the big favorite against Venus today :lol:
Remmember last match they played it was a fairly easy 7-5 6-3 for Venus on this same surface.

Martina did not have enough sure, but it was just, just a litttle what separated Hingis from upsetting Venus.What the heck are you talking about?! If Venus had whipped Martina in routine fashion then you're right there is nothing to be too excited about. Most on this board heavily favored Martina: it was clay, Venus would be rusty, and Martina's style of play has always bothered Venus even when she was dominating the rivalry. But you add cramps in the final set, and the match is even more tilted to Martina. Even the commentators were incredulous that Venus could pull it off under those circumstances.
This was one match on a long road back for Venus, so it's not everything, but it is still a good sign.

Infiniti2001
May 5th, 2006, 12:54 PM
What the heck are you talking about?! If Venus had whipped Martina in routine fashion then you're right there is nothing to be too excited about. Most on this board heavily favored Martina: it was clay, Venus would be rusty, and Martina's style of play has always bothered Venus even when she was dominating the rivalry. But you add cramps in the final set, and the match is even more tilted to Martina. Even the commentators were incredulous that Venus could pull it off under those circumstances.
This was one match on a long road back for Venus, so it's not everything, but it is still a good sign.


Why are you bothering ?:shrug: People see what they want to especially when Venus is in the mix :rolleyes:

Krystell
May 5th, 2006, 01:38 PM
WARSAW, Poland -- Venus Williams overcame leg cramps and an inconsistent serve to beat Martina Hingis 4-6, 7-5, 6-4 Thursday in the second round of the J&S Cup.



http://espn-att.starwave.com/photo/2006/0504/ten_a_mhvw_275.jpg
AP Photo
Martina Hingis, left, and Venus Williams hadn't played since 2002.




It was the first meeting between the former top-ranked players since 2002 in Hamburg, Germany.

"I'm very elated," Williams said. "This is a match that seems like I should have lost toward the end, but I didn't feel that way even though I was in a lot of pain and dire circumstances."

The 13th-ranked Williams received medical treatment for leg cramps at 1-1 in the third set.

Williams played only her third match of the year, having been sidelined since the Australian Open with a strained right elbow. The 25th-ranked Hingis is back on the WTA Tour after an almost three-year hiatus.

Both players struggled with their serve, and both broke twice to open the match.

Hingis held serve to lead 5-4 in the first set, then needed five break points before Williams netted a two-handed backhand.

Trailing 3-1 in the second set, Williams earned a break point when her backhand clipped the net and fell in, then hit a forehand winner to go back on serve.

At 5-4, Williams double-faulted twice to fall to 0-30, but rallied to hold with forehand winners, a Hingis error, and an ace down the middle. She then broke Hingis at 5-5 and served out the set.

"I felt like in the first game of the third set I was finally getting back to normal and hitting my shots and less errors and then boom, here come the cramps," Williams said. "I was thinking, if this keeps happening, hopefully I can move, but I definitely wanted to finish the match."

The players traded breaks early in the third. Tied 4-4, Williams won a break point with a two-handed backhand crosscourt winner, then Hingis hit a backhand long to trail 5-4. Williams served out the match.

Hingis called her own serve "disgusting."

"When she's standing there you get maybe a little intimidated," Hingis said. "I was trying to go for too much and missed it by a little bit."

Also Thursday, Svetlana Kuznetsova of Russia beat Tsvetana Pironkova of Bulgaria 6-3, 6-1, and Ana Ivanovic of Serbia-Montenegro defeated Patty Schnyder of Switzerland 6-3, 6-2. Anna Chakvetadze of Russia beat Daniela Hantuchova of Slovakia 6-4, 6-3.


One of Martina's comments was that she was waiting for errors, a pro shouldn't ever play like that,so hopefully she just got a wake up call.

GrandSlam05
May 5th, 2006, 01:43 PM
One of Martina's comments was that she was waiting for errors, a pro shouldn't ever play like that,so hopefully she just got a wake up call.
I agree esp. when you're opponent is "injured" they're going to go for even more.

Carmen Mairena
May 5th, 2006, 01:56 PM
I didn't see the match so... :shrug:

vwfan
May 5th, 2006, 02:00 PM
Why are you bothering ?:shrug: People see what they want to especially when Venus is in the mix :rolleyes:you're right. i'm done! thanks for pulling me back.

WF4EVER
May 5th, 2006, 02:13 PM
It would have been a shame for Venus that a player that had been out for 4 years, and having played for only 8 tournaments, having fairly good results in most of them though, but still rusty, adapting to the tour after the layoff would beat the Today´s Defending Wimbledon Champion. You Venus´s fans act like Martina never retired and as if she was the big favorite against Venus today :lol:
Remmember last match they played it was a fairly easy 7-5 6-3 for Venus on this same surface.

Martina did not have enough sure, but it was just, just a litttle what separated Hingis from upsetting Venus.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Whatever makes you sleep at night. Or helps you get over it.

serenafan08
May 5th, 2006, 03:17 PM
All Martina's saying is that Venus has a big return game. She can take control of points with her return of serve, and knowing that, it can be intimidating seeing her standing there ready to pounce on whatever you give her. That's how I took it. I don't think she's intimidated by Venus because she knows what to do against her; she's just wary of Venus's ability to hit winners off of the return of serve - something a lot of players don't do.