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View Full Version : Martina: A Champion's Most Embarassing Match


AsGoodAsNew
May 4th, 2006, 06:44 PM
Sorry, I have posted on the VenusvMartina match already, but I have just seen on Eurosport the replay of the last part of the match, and I HAD to post again as I hadn't seen it being at college and had posted based on reports on here.

I can't believe that Martina lost this match. She didn't have a hint of injury. Venus was nearly crippled with agony at several points in the match. All credit to Venus. What an incredible inner strength she has. I had alway been a mild fan of Venus but now I bow down and kiss the hem of her skirt.

But Martina, I am stunned. This is for me the most embarassing loss I have seen by any player in such a big match. It's worse than the 99 loss to Steffi at Roland Garros which could be excused for various reasons. But this is simply HUMILIATING. I don't see how Martina can face Venus again on court. I really don't think she can do it again. And now every player knows they can beat her no matter what.

Which made me think. Is this Martina's most embarassing loss? And what are the most embarassing losses by Champions when they weren't injured? I can't think of any to come near this one. It is AWFUL!

A new Venus mega fan is born! Venus deserves a medal. If I have criticised her before I take it all back. I was wrong. And I was wrong about the glory of Martina's comeback.

Declan
May 4th, 2006, 06:57 PM
I didn't see the match, but I have to say -if a relatively match-fit Hingis can't beat a very rusty Venus Williams on arguably her (Venus') worst surface, what does that say about the long-term prospects of her comeback? Surely all the old doubts about her ability to withstand the power of the big-hitters will return with a vengeance?

Summer Snow
May 4th, 2006, 07:01 PM
:rolleyes: Venus whooped her ass. Get over it :rolleyes:

Jamie
May 4th, 2006, 07:03 PM
I will say just one thing. When Venus or Serena are on the verge of losing a game, the ALWAYS seem to come up with an injury. And the wham, it's a miricle. I won. My fav could have played a stronger game but she did not. :sad:

The_Pov
May 4th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Please people remember it was only Martina's 2nd match in 4 years, she still nees time to adapt.

I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't win a title this year. Next year will be the real test to see if she's still got what it takes.

Infiniti2001
May 4th, 2006, 07:05 PM
I will say just one thing. When Venus or Serena are on the verge of losing a game, the ALWAYS seem to come up with an injury. And the wham, it's a miricle. I won. My fav could have played a stronger game but she did not. :sad:


Oh get over yourself. Venus's cramps came in the 3rd set after she broke chucky in the 1st game of the set. She's served to go up 2-0 , but was broken because of the cramps idiot :rolleyes:


As for this thread--- what drama :lol: this is a 2nd rd of a tier 2 tournament for crying out loud :lol:

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Sorry, I have posted on the VenusvMartina match already, but I have just seen on Eurosport the replay of the last part of the match, and I HAD to post again as I hadn't seen it being at college and had posted based on reports on here.

I can't believe that Martina lost this match. She didn't have a hint of injury. Venus was nearly crippled with agony at several points in the match. All credit to Venus. What an incredible inner strength she has. I had alway been a mild fan of Venus but now I bow down and kiss the hem of her skirt.

But Martina, I am stunned. This is for me the most embarassing loss I have seen by any player in such a big match. It's worse than the 99 loss to Steffi at Roland Garros which could be excused for various reasons. But this is simply HUMILIATING. I don't see how Martina can face Venus again on court. I really don't think she can do it again. And now every player knows they can beat her no matter what.

Which made me think. Is this Martina's most embarassing loss? And what are the most embarassing losses by Champions when they weren't injured? I can't think of any to come near this one. It is AWFUL!

A new Venus mega fan is born! Venus deserves a medal. If I have criticised her before I take it all back. I was wrong. And I was wrong about the glory of Martina's comeback.
Martina should be embarassed by this lost, pure choking give away from Martina (that is not my thinking, its tour) and then you give Venus a medal? :lol: Dont get the double standard.

Solitaire
May 4th, 2006, 07:11 PM
People seem to be over reacting to this match. These ladies have lots of history this was their 20th meeting. So it's not that Martina didn't close out a rusty/cramping Venus there's more to it than that. It's embarrassing when u loose to player ranked in the 100's and of less talent. Martina is a champ and she lost to one.

As for Martina's most embarrassing match it's the 99 FO final. Her childish spoiled brat antics were very embarrassing and uncalled for. :o

dreamgoddess099
May 4th, 2006, 07:12 PM
I can't believe I'm coming to Hingis's defense, but I find it so funny that you guys are putting a 3 sets loss against a 5 time grandslam champion like Venus ahead of Hingis's straight sets first round grandslam loss to a player like Ruano Pasqual. :lol:

fammmmedspin
May 4th, 2006, 07:13 PM
I didn't see the match, but I have to say -if a relatively match-fit Hingis can't beat a very rusty Venus Williams on arguably her (Venus') worst surface, what does that say about the long-term prospects of her comeback? Surely all the old doubts about her ability to withstand the power of the big-hitters will return with a vengeance?

Actually the tennis was going Martina's way - Venus just misses to much and the minutes of brilliance are rare. and the body fell apart. It wasn't Martina being out-hit because Venus couldn't capitalise. The problem was Martina's head from half way through the second set in sight of winning. She had unlucky netcords, hit unwise shots and missed a crucial point on a volley to get to 0-40 effectively for the win- she then insisted it was in argued with the umpire and seemed unsettled for the rest of the match.Her UE came when it mattered as Venus managed to take advantage on no legs. Basically she was too nervous and did a FO 99 again. The question is if this is a long term problem closing out or one she had today because of the mental baggage on the match.

selking
May 4th, 2006, 07:17 PM
hingis' most embarassing loss was 99 french open. period.

alfonsojose
May 4th, 2006, 07:17 PM
It's a bad loss, but it's not the biggest. A QF macth would have been better. Hingis hasn't played on clay in four years and she always needs a few matches in her belt. Venus doesn't need it that much.

vogus
May 4th, 2006, 07:25 PM
i think we're going to see a lot of this from Hingis. Every player in the Top 20 believes they can beat her. Hingy has been fortunate that her losses have mostly been against the top players so far. She hasn't had to face the Schiavone's and Groenfeld's and Safina's and Ivanovic's and Golovin's yet, but i don't think those matches are going to be much fun for her when they inevitably happen sooner or later.

GrandSlam05
May 4th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Martina got tight, so does everybody else at times. One disgusting loss at a tier 2 tournament should not make everyone so riled up.

PLP
May 4th, 2006, 07:43 PM
i think we're going to see a lot of this from Hingis. Every player in the Top 20 believes they can beat her. Hingy has been fortunate that her losses have mostly been against the top players so far. She hasn't had to face the Schiavone's and Groenfeld's and Safina's and Ivanovic's and Golovin's yet, but i don't think those matches are going to be much fun for her when they inevitably happen sooner or later.
Actually Martina played Fran already and I believ she managed 2 or 3 games against Martina :kiss: .
Martina will be ok everybody, if you're a fan just breath, it will be ok, if you aren't, please be considerate after such a heartbreaking loss.

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 07:43 PM
i think we're going to see a lot of this from Hingis. Every player in the Top 20 believes they can beat her. Hingy has been fortunate that her losses have mostly been against the top players so far. She hasn't had to face the Schiavone's and Groenfeld's and Safina's and Ivanovic's and Golovin's yet, but i don't think those matches are going to be much fun for her when they inevitably happen sooner or later.
This year:
Hingis upset 4th seeded Schiavone 6-1 6-2 at Doha
Hingis upset 10th seded Safina 6-3 6-4 at Indian Wells.
So your comment. You keep being ridiculous as your usual Hingis-Hate attitude Vogus.

Hingis has not been fortunate of losing to the top players, that is not a mere coincidence, thatīs consistency.

Had Hingis lost today 6-0 6-0 to Venus, then i would say "Embarassing".
But losing 6-4 in the third to the latest crowned Wimbledon Champion and Winner of 4 clay court events in the past two years, and owner of the second best winning % on clay for the past two years behind only to Justine, is nothing to be ashamed of.
Add to that a player coming back from years off the tour, no wonder.

PLP
May 4th, 2006, 07:45 PM
I can't believe I'm coming to Hingis's defense, but I find it so funny that you guys are putting a 3 sets loss against a 5 time grandslam champion like Venus ahead of Hingis's straight sets first round grandslam loss to a player like Ruano Pasqual. :lol:
:worship: Thank you! Martina will be back with a vengeance IMO! By the way, congrats to Venus again! I know I have said this about 10 times already, but she really earned it today!

moby
May 4th, 2006, 07:49 PM
I doubt it was worse than her absolutely deplorable performance in the 2001 RG semis against Jennifer. It's kind of hard to top that, cause she wasn't even trying in that match.

If she at least tried in this match which I'm sure she did, then it's not too bad despite the unfortunate conclusion.

Drake1980
May 4th, 2006, 07:49 PM
Oh Martina :hysteric:

griffin
May 4th, 2006, 08:02 PM
beware of bacon on the wing

In Hingis' defense - Venus is one of the best fighers on the tour. She may blow up, but she does not give up. And playing an injured opponent is not always easy. An obvious injury can distract you and help them focus/rally. Just ask Ivan Lendl.

Nickk
May 4th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Embarrassment? lmao

Yeah, Venus was suffering due to her cramps, but that mostly happened BETWEEN the points. During them, she got a grip on herself and played quite normally.

Gosh.

Yonexforever
May 4th, 2006, 08:21 PM
How is this more embarrassing than Sharapova losing 0 n 0 to Davenport or Navratilova losing 0 n 0 to Evert Llloyd in the early 80s?

Geisha
May 4th, 2006, 09:19 PM
I will say just one thing. When Venus or Serena are on the verge of losing a game, the ALWAYS seem to come up with an injury. And the wham, it's a miricle. I won. My fav could have played a stronger game but she did not. :sad:

The match between Hingis and Venus was tied 1-1 in the third set when Venus took her injury timeout, was it not?

Geisha
May 4th, 2006, 09:20 PM
I doubt it was worse than her absolutely deplorable performance in the 2001 RG semis against Jennifer. It's kind of hard to top that, cause she wasn't even trying in that match.

If she at least tried in this match which I'm sure she did, then it's not too bad despite the unfortunate conclusion.

'99 Wimbledon R128 vs. Dokic
'01 US Open SF vs. S.Williams
'02 Miami QF vs. S.Williams

There are plenty of embarassing ones.

Geisha
May 4th, 2006, 09:21 PM
i think we're going to see a lot of this from Hingis. Every player in the Top 20 believes they can beat her. Hingy has been fortunate that her losses have mostly been against the top players so far. She hasn't had to face the Schiavone's and Groenfeld's and Safina's and Ivanovic's and Golovin's yet, but i don't think those matches are going to be much fun for her when they inevitably happen sooner or later.

Hasn't she already played Safina and Schiavone? And beat them?

vogus
May 4th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Hasn't she already played Safina and Schiavone? And beat them?


yeah, my bad. My memory is getting unreliable. Too much rattling around.

Sally Struthers
May 4th, 2006, 09:34 PM
I didn't see the match, but I have to say -if a relatively match-fit Hingis can't beat a very rusty Venus Williams on arguably her (Venus') worst surface, what does that say about the long-term prospects of her comeback? Surely all the old doubts about her ability to withstand the power of the big-hitters will return with a vengeance?


I would argue that Venus' worst surface is rebound ace. :o

And contrary to popular thought, I have never been impressed with Hingis on clay. Yes it gives her more time to set up for shots but also neutralizes her already cream puff shots for the big hitters to destroy. She's better on hard courts and indoors by far.

Pureracket
May 4th, 2006, 09:40 PM
I will say just one thing. When Venus or Serena are on the verge of losing a game, the ALWAYS seem to come up with an injury. And the wham, it's a miricle. I won. My fav could have played a stronger game but she did not. :sad:LOL!!!!!

C'mon, did you even try to veil that lie?!?!?!?:lol:

Couver
May 4th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Overeaction much? Hingis has been off the tour for 4 years, and in the span of four months she's managed to get her ranking back up into the top twenty:eek: That in itself is impressive. There is no champion of late that hasn't been beaten by someone else, tennis is just like that these days. To say she is totally finished though is silly, I'm not even a fan but she deserves respect for everything she's accomplished.

thrust
May 4th, 2006, 09:47 PM
This was not an embarrassing loss for Hingis, especially because she has not played on clay for a long time and that clay was never her best surface. Throwing the FO final to Graf was disgusting!

Volcana
May 4th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Which made me think. Is this Martina's most embarassing loss?No. She lost to the reigning Wimbledon champ. Generally, whoever that is can play, regardless of surface.

And what are the most embarassing losses by Champions when they weren't injured?This wasn't nearly as bad as losing in the first round to Dokic at Wimbledon. I think Venus has lost in the first of of RG and OZ. I mean, after her first GS win. Sharapova will always have being double-bageled by Davenport while she was reigning Wimbledon champ. Dementieva, the 2004 RG final.

There are loads of embarassing losses out there.

Summer Snow
May 4th, 2006, 10:08 PM
I will say just one thing. When Venus or Serena are on the verge of losing a game, the ALWAYS seem to come up with an injury. And the wham, it's a miricle. I won. My fav could have played a stronger game but she did not. :sad:
:awww: This doesn't look good for Hingis. If she can't beat an injured/cramping Venus, what does that say about her :tape:


On the real side though, Hingis didn't choke, nor was this loss embarrassing. Venus straihgt up fired some winners at her ass at improtant moments. You try and return 90 mph ground strokes on clay :kiss:

miffedmax
May 4th, 2006, 10:10 PM
Losing a close three-set match to Venus is now officially more embarrassing than being completely dismantled by a headcase with the worst serve on the tour, a .250 winning record in finals and only one Tier I title in six years?

Yeeeesssssssss!!!!!

Helen Lawson
May 4th, 2006, 10:11 PM
I was named Harvard Lampoon's Worst Actress of the Year, 1961, for Backstreet. That's way more embarassing, considering it was a mere two years since winning Oscar gold. But I got like $500K for Backstreet, and custom gowns I got to keep. Martina got less than $10K for being a second-round casualty.

Volcana
May 4th, 2006, 10:13 PM
ifa relatively match-fit Hingis can't beat a very rusty Venus Williams on arguably her (Venus') worst surfaceVenus has won a Tier I, and three Tier II's on red clay. Her best result on Rebound Ace is winning a Tier III. (She has made GS finals on both surfaces, so obviously she CAN play on either.)

The last few years, she's also been better on red clay than on carpet.

dinhd82
May 4th, 2006, 10:13 PM
:rolleyes: Venus whooped her ass. Get over it :rolleyes:

I don't think you watched the same match we all watched, there was no ass whooping from vee whatsoever. Hingis totally gave it away.

Why is everybody saying that this is a bad loss for Hingis? Shouldn't it be a bad win for Vee instead, still having trouble with Hingis, who's been away from the game for years, even though Vee is coming back from injury, she is far in better shape than Hingis as of late. The fact that Martina can still take Vee to 3 sets and also have the opportunity to give it away at the end and not let Vee dominate is saying something isn't? (of course Vee would have to say the cramping affected her play, but we all know the Williams sisters...eh) The short Hingis can still hit with the big girls. War is not over Vee, the french is just around the corner, congrats on today's battle though...but it's clearly not over. Martina is mad now. :fiery: :devil:

LoveFifteen
May 4th, 2006, 10:19 PM
Holy fucking shit, people! How is this loss embarrassing? It was 6-4 in the third set. It was against a Williams sister.

Everyone, everyone, has had an embarrassing loss, but this isn't one of them.

Summer Snow
May 4th, 2006, 10:30 PM
I don't think you watched the same match we all watched, there was no ass whooping from vee whatsoever. Hingis totally gave it away.

Why is everybody saying that this is a bad loss for Hingis? Shouldn't it be a bad win for Vee instead, still having trouble with Hingis, who's been away from the game for years, even though Vee is coming back from injury, she is far in better shape than Hingis as of late. The fact that Martina can still take Vee to 3 sets and also have the opportunity to give it away at the end and not let Vee dominate is saying something isn't? (of course Vee would have to say the cramping affected her play, but we all know the Williams sisters...eh) The short Hingis can still hit with the big girls. War is not over Vee, the french is just around the corner, congrats on today's battle though...but it's clearly not over. Martina is mad now. :fiery: :devil:
At the end of the day, Venus is in the Quarter-Finals, and Hingis is in her hotel packing :rolleyes: Ok?! :wavey:

WF4EVER
May 4th, 2006, 10:32 PM
I find it hard to swallow the excuse that Martina hasn't played for 4 years, yada, yada yada, when Martina recently had one of the best records on the tour this year, with more wins in 2006 than maybe 90+% of the active players.

In all fairness Venus is only playing her 2nd match since her 1st round loss in Australia. Martina should be in much better shape than Venus whether they're playing on clay or water.

Martina should have won that match but she partly choked-partly brainfarted the match away. On top of that she allowed herself to be intimidated by a less than confident, albeit highly determined Venus WIlliams. It reminded me a lot of the 2001 Oz Final that she should have won but just couldn't close out. Strangely enough I can't recall hearing of Hingis choking away any matches this year as badly as she did before she 'retired'.

Venus is really lucky to be in the QF considering how many times she lost serve and her cramping in the end. She really needs some match play and she'll be fine. She just needs to find her range cause from what I hear that forehand is working well, even though her serve is rather shaky.

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2006, 10:32 PM
Do some of you even understand the concept of sport? Venus vrs Hingis is like ALi vrs Frazier!!! Someone had to get knocked out.

They both play awsome tight matches and they both want it. Hingis has been out for 4 years. She is back now and ready to compete. You win some and you lose some.

Bottomline: If Hingis weren't so good we would not even be having this thread right now. Nobody even me thought she would come back and compete the way she has so soon after being gone from the game. People are pissed at Hingis but it only shows how good she really is. The way it looked Hingis should still be in the 100's by now.

They both deserve credit it wasn't easy with all the media and there past history. Neither of them wanted to lose. I enjoy the match up between these two and the older they become the more respect I have for this chemistry filled match-up.

dinhd82
May 4th, 2006, 10:43 PM
I find it hard to swallow the excuse that Martina hasn't played for 4 years, yada, yada yada, when Martina recently had one of the best records on the tour this year, with more wins in 2006 than maybe 90+% of the active players.



Well when a Vee beats Hingis, it's like a really big a accomplishment, with Martina having one of the best records this year and all, well quite frankly nobody else has been playing as much, but when somebody like a Kutsnetsova beats her it's more like Hingis "the top 25 player who can only do so much".

Nobody is giving martina enough credit for taking Vee to 3 sets once again.

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 10:45 PM
I will say just one thing. When Venus or Serena are on the verge of losing a game, the ALWAYS seem to come up with an injury. And the wham, it's a miricle. I won. My fav could have played a stronger game but she did not. :sad:really?! examples, please. The only other time I can think of that Venus took a medical time-out in a big match and was losing and then came back to win was Wimbledon SF 2003 against Cjisters and there she had an ab injury that kept her out of the sport for six months. It was a real injury. really! :confused:

Errinella
May 4th, 2006, 10:46 PM
I was disappointed for Martina. This was a very win-able match in the second set, but as often happens when you don't close the match out there and then, if it goes to a third set you're on trouble. Venus deserved it for guts - though she made a ton of errors in the first two sets.

Hingis was negative in the second set - she took her foot off the throttle hoping for Venus to make errors instead of pressing home her advantage. She can't afford to play like that against the very top players.

I still have huge doubts about Hingis ever winning majors again though. That serve is still a huge weakness. Even with cramp in both her legs Venus was able to just stand there and whack it back in the third set and Martina couldn't do anything about it.

Summer Snow
May 4th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Well when a Vee beats Hingis, it's like a really big a accomplishment, with Martina having one of the best records this year and all, well quite frankly nobody else has been playing as much, but when somebody like a Kutsnetsova beats her it's more like Hingis "the top 25 player who can only do so much".

Nobody is giving martina enough credit for taking Vee to 3 sets once again.


All of a sudden Hingis is the victim! :rolleyes: With the pools on this thread, about 62% of people thought that Hingis would beat Venus. Don't try to act as if you didn't think Hingis would have won! Now that she got her ass whooped you're tyring to turn the story around.


I definitely do think that this thread starter is trying to upset Hingis or put down Venus' amazing win! :D Venus was 2 points away from losing. I don't see how it's embarssing for Hingis to have lost. She didn't lose this match, Venus won it, and people need to just accept that :angel:

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 10:51 PM
This year:
Hingis upset 4th seeded Schiavone 6-1 6-2 at Doha
Hingis upset 10th seded Safina 6-3 6-4 at Indian Wells.
So your comment. You keep being ridiculous as your usual Hingis-Hate attitude Vogus.

Hingis has not been fortunate of losing to the top players, that is not a mere coincidence, thatīs consistency.

Had Hingis lost today 6-0 6-0 to Venus, then i would say "Embarassing".
But losing 6-4 in the third to the latest crowned Wimbledon Champion and Winner of 4 clay court events in the past two years, and owner of the second best winning % on clay for the past two years behind only to Justine, is nothing to be ashamed of.
Add to that a player coming back from years off the tour, no wonder.Exactly. There is so much history between these two that this was a match of wills as much a match of tennis. Today, Venus just wanted it more and was not prepared to lose and Hingis allowed herself to see defeat as possible.

LoveFifteen
May 4th, 2006, 11:11 PM
Hingis did not get her "ass whupped". An ass-whooping is a scoreline like 6-3 6-2.

vwfan
May 4th, 2006, 11:27 PM
I don't think you watched the same match we all watched, there was no ass whooping from vee whatsoever. Hingis totally gave it away.

Why is everybody saying that this is a bad loss for Hingis? Shouldn't it be a bad win for Vee instead, still having trouble with Hingis, who's been away from the game for years, even though Vee is coming back from injury, she is far in better shape than Hingis as of late. The fact that Martina can still take Vee to 3 sets and also have the opportunity to give it away at the end and not let Vee dominate is saying something isn't? (of course Vee would have to say the cramping affected her play, but we all know the Williams sisters...eh) The short Hingis can still hit with the big girls. War is not over Vee, the french is just around the corner, congrats on today's battle though...but it's clearly not over. Martina is mad now. :fiery: :devil:Because it is Venus' third match this year. How many matches has Hingis played? Given that, Hingis was heavy favorite to win, just look at the poll in another thread to see how much Venus was discounted on this very discussion board.
I said before the match that I didn't think this match could tell us much. Venus has three matches this year and Hingis hasn't played on tour in four. But I was wrong, what the match did tell us is that Venus refused to say die and just didn't want to lose to Hingis today (maybe it also says that Hingis just didn't want to win, too). Venus won; Hingis lost; their rivalry continues.

PLP
May 5th, 2006, 12:12 AM
All of a sudden Hingis is the victim! :rolleyes: With the pools on this thread, about 62% of people thought that Hingis would beat Venus. Don't try to act as if you didn't think Hingis would have won! Now that she got her ass whooped you're tyring to turn the story around.


I definitely do think that this thread starter is trying to upset Hingis or put down Venus' amazing win! :D Venus was 2 points away from losing. I don't see how it's embarssing for Hingis to have lost. She didn't lose this match, Venus won it, and people need to just accept that :angel:
I am very Happy that Venus held on and was the winner today, but I don't see how anyone could deny the fact that Martina lost this match, just my opinion.

Summer Snow
May 5th, 2006, 12:15 AM
I am very Happy that Venus held on and was the winner today, but I don't see how anyone could deny the fact that Martina lost this match, just my opinion.
Please tell me how she lost it? :shrug: Venus blasted aces and winners to prevent Hingis from winning that match. Nothing in which Hingis could really do if and when Venus decides to hit a winner, or serve an ace :lol:

PLP
May 5th, 2006, 12:19 AM
Please tell me how she lost it? :shrug: Venus blasted aces and winners to prevent Hingis from winning that match. Nothing in which Hingis could really do if and when Venus decides to hit a winner, or serve an ace :lol:
First of all, I am not denying Venus 'won' the match...I am just saying that Martina definitely lost it as well...Secondly this shouldn't have gone to third set. Martina was 2 points away and before that she was up 3-0 in the 2nd. She wasn't aggressive and she paid the price. Then in the 3rd she couldn't take adv. of an injured opponent becasue of the same reasons...she lost it!

moby
May 5th, 2006, 01:17 AM
'99 Wimbledon R128 vs. Dokic
'01 US Open SF vs. S.Williams
'02 Miami QF vs. S.Williams

There are plenty of embarassing ones.Perhaps the Dokic one. Even then, Jelena and especially Serena were both playing amazingly in those matches and would probably have beaten anyone easily on those days. How is that embarassing? That US Open semis, in particular, was the best match that Serena has ever played.

moby
May 5th, 2006, 01:22 AM
Please tell me how she lost it? :shrug: Venus blasted aces and winners to prevent Hingis from winning that match. Nothing in which Hingis could really do if and when Venus decides to hit a winner, or serve an ace :lol:If hitting winners were so easy, perhaps Venus (or any other player) should simply decide to hit a winner on every point in the future. The way to prevent your opponents from hitting winners is to be more aggressive yourself, or give them difficult shots from which attempting winners is extremely risky. If Martina did not do either of that, then perhaps she did lose the opportunity to close it out on her own terms.

Summer Snow
May 5th, 2006, 01:34 AM
If hitting winners were so easy, perhaps Venus (or any other player) should simply decide to hit a winner on every point in the future. The way to prevent your opponents from hitting winners is to be more aggressive yourself, or give them difficult shots from which attempting winners is extremely risky. If Martina did not do either of that, then perhaps she did lose the opportunity to close it out on her own terms.
Guess what?























Venus won, Martina lost :p

moby
May 5th, 2006, 01:41 AM
Venus won, Martina lost :pEvidently. That, however, does not constitute proof for what semblance of an argument you had going on. In fact, it is somewhat irrelevant. ;)

Summer Snow
May 5th, 2006, 01:55 AM
Evidently. That, however, does not constitute proof for what semblance of an argument you had going on. In fact, it is somewhat irrelevant. ;)
Champions don't choke baby love. They force their opponents to win. Since I consider Hingis to be a champion, I am assuming she didn't create an unforced error that was irrelevant on match point. I will also assume that if she was close to match point, Venus was the 1st to begin dictating play in the rally that followed it :kiss: ;)

morningglory
May 5th, 2006, 01:58 AM
Champions don't choke baby love. They force their opponents to win. Since I consider Hingis to be a champion, I am assuming she didn't create an unforced error that was irrelevant on match point. I will also assume that if she was close to match point, Venus was the 1st to begin dictating play in the rally that followed it :kiss: ;)
even champs do choke, I think ;) just not very often...

lukehingis
May 5th, 2006, 02:00 AM
Evidently. That, however, does not constitute proof for what semblance of an argument you had going on. In fact, it is somewhat irrelevant. ;)

:yeah:
don't bother about such pointless comments...

we'll discuss the issue at hand... Losing to venus in 3 sets is by no means embarassing, perhaps she should have closed it out, but Venus was going for her shots towards the end due to her cramps and her gamble paid off. Hingis not being able to close out matches is a growing concern but I wanna give her a few more tough matches to know for sure...

And we must remember that both Venus and Martina are determined to beat each other, so Martina probably got extra tight towards the finish line since it was venus she's facing...

WF4EVER
May 5th, 2006, 02:16 AM
Well when a Vee beats Hingis, it's like a really big a accomplishment, with Martina having one of the best records this year and all, well quite frankly nobody else has been playing as much, but when somebody like a Kutsnetsova beats her it's more like Hingis "the top 25 player who can only do so much".

Nobody is giving martina enough credit for taking Vee to 3 sets once again.

Um, Martina did not take Venus to 3 sets. Martina has played tons more matches than Venus this year and was up 6-4 5-4 0-30 on Venus' serve that she had broken about 6 times at this point in the match.

Martina got taken to 3 sets my friend; the match was hers to win.

It's amazing that Martina is being treated like such a huge underdog against Venus who was only playing her second consecutive match of the year and who many scoffed at for losing 6 games to the 15-year-old Radwanska!

Y'all can't have it both ways.

Rub
May 5th, 2006, 03:08 AM
martina's losses in close matches are really beginning to be a huge problem! maybe this started at ausopen 2002... that was more humiliating than anything else!

oh martina... best of luck to you!

SAEKeithSerena
May 5th, 2006, 04:29 AM
just because she lost it's her most embarassing match?!? right.......venus just stepped it up one notch, it was such a close match. hingis will get even stronger from this

Sadka
May 5th, 2006, 04:45 AM
:( Martina ..

Williams Rulez
May 5th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Well when a Vee beats Hingis, it's like a really big a accomplishment, with Martina having one of the best records this year and all, well quite frankly nobody else has been playing as much, but when somebody like a Kutsnetsova beats her it's more like Hingis "the top 25 player who can only do so much".

Nobody is giving martina enough credit for taking Vee to 3 sets once again.maybe, just maybe, this is only e second tournament venus has played this year, and it also happens to be the 2 match she won this year. and also, the fact tt hingis was favoured to wiin this match.

Summer Snow
May 5th, 2006, 05:30 AM
even champs do choke, I think ;) just not very often...
I retarct my staments. i wasn't thinking, just talking :lol:

Stamp Paid
May 5th, 2006, 07:10 AM
What about when Serena owned her ass in grand fashion at the USO and Miami..

F-R-E-A-K
May 5th, 2006, 07:22 AM
:retard:

Hingie
May 5th, 2006, 09:43 AM
This year:
Hingis upset 4th seeded Schiavone 6-1 6-2 at Doha
Hingis upset 10th seded Safina 6-3 6-4 at Indian Wells.
So your comment. You keep being ridiculous as your usual Hingis-Hate attitude Vogus.

Hingis has not been fortunate of losing to the top players, that is not a mere coincidence, thatīs consistency.

Had Hingis lost today 6-0 6-0 to Venus, then i would say "Embarassing".
But losing 6-4 in the third to the latest crowned Wimbledon Champion and Winner of 4 clay court events in the past two years, and owner of the second best winning % on clay for the past two years behind only to Justine, is nothing to be ashamed of.
Add to that a player coming back from years off the tour, no wonder.

Vogus - you really need to be a little more subtle with your Hingis-hating ways! The fact of the matter is that anyone of the top players can lose to the handful of players you mention... including your beloved Venus.

Hingis is not unbeatable. She doesn't blow players off the court, she's gotta work her butt off for her victories because her game is about strategy and moving players around - i admire her even more for her style of play. You on the other hand seem to think she is going to fade away into oblivion. I hate to break it to you, but she will continue to compete and will compete well.

In terms of her losing to players other than those at the top - her consistency has always allowed her to get through draws, she struggles against top players (as they all do against each other). Once her ranking improves and she can avoid high seeds until later in the tournament i don't see why she cannot claim titles. As for your fact-less argument :retard: - thanks spencercarlos for proving you wrong... again.

LostGlory
May 5th, 2006, 09:57 AM
Today will decide ....it all depends on how well venus will play today.....

spencercarlos
May 5th, 2006, 12:35 PM
maybe, just maybe, this is only e second tournament venus has played this year, and it also happens to be the 2 match she won this year. and also, the fact tt hingis was favoured to wiin this match.
Having played more matches this year means nothing, Hingis had not played for 4 years which is way more time than Venusīs 3 month abscense, Hingis btw had taken a month off the tour, so both in a way were coming back. Plus Venus is the one with the much more powerful game, higher ranking, and the one with better results in the past years, make that 6 years. Itīs ridiculous to say Hingis was the FAVORITE :lol:

The same happened when Hingis faced Henin in Sydney, Henin had been out with injury and cameback and beat Hingis 6-3 6-3, after Hingis had played more matches during the year, but it was Henin the one favorite to take out Martina.

Jakeev
May 5th, 2006, 12:59 PM
Oh my gosh cut out the freaking drama would you. It was Martina's what second clay-court match in how long?

The fact she had to face Venus, who isn't playing quite like peaches and cream herself, had to be a huge factor in that match.

After all, it could have went either way.

Congrats Venus. Bad Luck Martina. And hopefully your silly fans will freaking calm down.

WF4EVER
May 5th, 2006, 01:32 PM
Having played more matches this year means nothing, Hingis had not played for 4 years which is way more time than Venusīs 3 month abscense, Hingis btw had taken a month off the tour, so both in a way were coming back. Plus Venus is the one with the much more powerful game, higher ranking, and the one with better results in the past years, make that 6 years. Itīs ridiculous to say Hingis was the FAVORITE :lol:

The same happened when Hingis faced Henin in Sydney, Henin had been out with injury and cameback and beat Hingis 6-3 6-3, after Hingis had played more matches during the year, but it was Henin the one favorite to take out Martina.

The first part of your defence I find very hypocritical. Even though HIngis was not playing competitively in the past 4 years she played WTT all last year and she played for the full three months of this year which is much more than Venus.

But you're absolutely right, Venus is the one with the much better results in the past 6 years. Remember that's why Hingis retired in the first place. But Venus has been suffering and trying to recover from a host of injuries, not least among them that stomach tear. Stop making excuses. Hingis had no business losing that match. So she took a month off? Wow. She took 4 years off and took the tennis world by storm in the first three months of 2006.

You know what's happened to Hingis? Reality is setting in.

As for that Henin match, is it possible that Justine is just better than the un-retired Hingis? I'm sure Justine didn't return to Sydney until she was properly healed. She may have lacked matchplay but that didn't stop her from demonstrating that she is the better player of the two at this current space in time.

Like I said before if Hingis can't beat Venus (undoubtedly one of the most inconsistent of the top players) with muscular or menstrual cramps, she should hang it up.

This match she should have won; the one in Sydney was totally out of her control.

griffin
May 5th, 2006, 02:12 PM
:eek: wow. for a minute there I thought I was back on the old Sanex board... :tape:

toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore...

Mark for Martina
May 5th, 2006, 03:51 PM
That was a fun match! Aren't we all glad Hingis is back! I'm sure all of this kind of talk was not here same time last year. Better matches. Lots of drama. And tennis lore is made!

All hail the gods of tennis! And let the rivalries continue!

RAA
May 5th, 2006, 04:14 PM
well regardless i'm still surprised that venus beat her. I mean, I think Venus is the better player, but, well, I thought Hingis was much more "in form" than Venus right now..

but i'm happy with the result and look forward to more match ups between the two. its neat to just be talking about venus playing hingis in 2006!

alibaby
May 5th, 2006, 04:46 PM
Do some of you even understand the concept of sport? Venus vrs Hingis is like ALi vrs Frazier!!! Someone had to get knocked out.

They both play awsome tight matches and they both want it. Hingis has been out for 4 years. She is back now and ready to compete. You win some and you lose some.

Bottomline: If Hingis weren't so good we would not even be having this thread right now. Nobody even me thought she would come back and compete the way she has so soon after being gone from the game. People are pissed at Hingis but it only shows how good she really is. The way it looked Hingis should still be in the 100's by now.

They both deserve credit it wasn't easy with all the media and there past history. Neither of them wanted to lose. I enjoy the match up between these two and the older they become the more respect I have for this chemistry filled match-up.very good comment,dawn!and i think,we should not take anything away from venus,being a fan or not,but how she got through that period was more than impressive.period.

and martina played a class game too,so whats anyones problem?some one had to lose...

LUIS9
May 5th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Um, Martina did not take Venus to 3 sets. Martina has played tons more matches than Venus this year and was up 6-4 5-4 0-30 on Venus' serve that she had broken about 6 times at this point in the match.

Martina got taken to 3 sets my friend; the match was hers to win.

It's amazing that Martina is being treated like such a huge underdog against Venus who was only playing her second consecutive match of the year and who many scoffed at for losing 6 games to the 15-year-old Radwanska!

Y'all can't have it both ways.

The problem remains that despite Venus' injuries over the past years and her lack of not playing all that much, she has still been playing professionally far longer than Hingis the past 3 and a half years. Therefore, eventhough Hingis had played for 4 months this year and Venus had not. Venus is still the favorite going into their matches.

spencercarlos
May 6th, 2006, 03:33 AM
The first part of your defence I find very hypocritical. Even though HIngis was not playing competitively in the past 4 years she played WTT all last year and she played for the full three months of this year which is much more than Venus.

But you're absolutely right, Venus is the one with the much better results in the past 6 years. Remember that's why Hingis retired in the first place. But Venus has been suffering and trying to recover from a host of injuries, not least among them that stomach tear. Stop making excuses. Hingis had no business losing that match. So she took a month off? Wow. She took 4 years off and took the tennis world by storm in the first three months of 2006.

You know what's happened to Hingis? Reality is setting in.

As for that Henin match, is it possible that Justine is just better than the un-retired Hingis? I'm sure Justine didn't return to Sydney until she was properly healed. She may have lacked matchplay but that didn't stop her from demonstrating that she is the better player of the two at this current space in time.

Like I said before if Hingis can't beat Venus (undoubtedly one of the most inconsistent of the top players) with muscular or menstrual cramps, she should hang it up.

This match she should have won; the one in Sydney was totally out of her control.
Donīt tell me you are comparing an exhibition like WTT to real tennis tournaments? :lol:
Anyway i agree with the fact that Hingis should have beaten Venus, she was up a set and a break and should have closed it out in two sets, but, itīs well understood that this problems closing out matches can happen for someone who had been away from competitive tennis for 4 years.

Once again, Venus was the favorite to win the Hingis match, ranking and recent results speak for themselves, Venus is a grand slam defending champion no less, and there Hingis is abosolutely far away from Venus at this point.

Were you expecting that Hingis, 4 years off WTA, to comeback and beat Venus in their first meeting? :lol:
Plus Venusīs cramping just happened during the match after 2 hours of battle, its not like Venus was cramping right from the start :rolleyes:
2006 at least Hingis is not supossed to beat Venus, and neither some of the players that she has already beaten this year, but im not one to complain, just shows how great she is, despite her eventual circunstances.

Lulu.
May 6th, 2006, 03:46 AM
:rolleyes: Venus whooped her ass. Get over it :rolleyes:



I know right....

Hingie
May 6th, 2006, 03:49 AM
I know right....

Yep - 6-4 in the third is a real whooping! :rolleyes:

From what i've heard Marti handed it to her on a platter!

Lulu.
May 6th, 2006, 03:51 AM
Yep - 6-4 in the third is a real whooping! :rolleyes:

From what i've heard Marti handed it to her on a platter!




Thats what your trying to convince yourself happend but it didnt, Vee sent her ass home :)

Hingie
May 6th, 2006, 06:05 AM
Thats what your trying to convince yourself happend but it didnt, Vee sent her ass home :)

Just like Kuzzie sent Vee's butt home in a hurry huh?

Lulu.
May 6th, 2006, 06:08 AM
Just like Kuzzie sent Vee's butt home in a hurry huh?


True. But Venus was tired so that helped ;)

lecciones
Nov 6th, 2006, 10:03 AM
Martina beat Venus for her 500th win at Rome. :) It was a whooping also.
But of course with the history of these two (and with anybody else out there) a chance to play with Martina always means that even if they are rusty they will do anything, I MEAN ANYTHING, to beat Martina. She is in the historical profiles of WTA website so to beat her would be a dream come true for many out there.

Kunal
Nov 6th, 2006, 10:49 AM
I can't believe I'm coming to Hingis's defense, but I find it so funny that you guys are putting a 3 sets loss against a 5 time grandslam champion like Venus ahead of Hingis's straight sets first round grandslam loss to a player like Ruano Pasqual. :lol:

word

Shonami Slam
Nov 6th, 2006, 10:53 AM
btw - you asked if there were more embarresing shows in history of champs - well, of course.
Graf handed out some players worst losses ever, evert double bageled Nav, zvonareva clearly smacked Jcap at phily and heaps more.
this wasn't exactly the best example of ass kicking, even on the two's personal careers - hingis lost a miserable loss to dementieva after just getting through sharapova, venus wasn't too great against radwanska this year as well, and sharapova's double bagel loss is famous at these areas.
so just to sum it up - this match was far from history's top ass-whippings.

LoveFifteen
Nov 6th, 2006, 12:14 PM
I can't believe people were saying that Hingis should just hang up her racket again after this match, and then she wins Rome a few weeks later (beating Venus, no less). :lol:

The people on this board never make extreme blanket statements after a player has a bad loss! :angel:

barmaid
Nov 6th, 2006, 01:54 PM
I can't believe people were saying that Hingis should just hang up her racket again after this match, and then she wins Rome a few weeks later (beating Venus, no less). :lol:

The people on this board never make extreme blanket statements after a player has a bad loss! :angel:


Exactly, I have some clips of the earlier match J & S Tournament and it was so compelling and competitive on both sides ....fantastic shots by both players...yes, maybe Martina should have taken advantage over Venus in the end but Venus just "dug down deep" and came up with a fantastic winner down the line that the commentators remarked on as "unbelievable"..but they fought hard for each and every point....Martina sure remembered her failing in closing out that match and reversed the tide in Rome...but no embarassment for Martina in the earlier contest...it was hard fought by both gals!:worship:

barmaid:wavey: