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GoDominique
May 4th, 2006, 03:06 PM
... and beyond.

You think? :confused:

alfonsojose
May 4th, 2006, 03:12 PM
Venus is 2nd round isn't easy for anyone.

Relax :yeah:

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2006, 03:14 PM
I think you should RESPECT Martina. Venus has always been a thorn in Hingis's side as well as Martina being a thorn in Venus's. They both bring out the best in each other. In fact in order to get to the top level you NEED each other to feed off of and to compete in a tough level. Players need the competiton in order to evolve become better.

Give Hingis a break. She's been out for 4 years and takes Venus to a three setter. Venus didn't do so bad either.

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2006, 03:15 PM
You're an idiot anyway. You're pissed that Venus won in the fashion that she did more so than Hingis losing. You are NOT A TENNIS fan. Only a VENUS HATER.

kaki
May 4th, 2006, 03:17 PM
At 6-4 5-4 0-30 When Hingis argued,it remind me of the french open against Steffi and at that special moment I knew Hingis will loose again

Martian KC
May 4th, 2006, 03:17 PM
LOL. I think we're still expecting way too much out of Martina so soon.

Foot_Fault
May 4th, 2006, 03:17 PM
You're an idiot anyway. You're pissed that Venus won in the fashion that she did more so than Hingis losing. You are NOT A TENNIS fan. Only a VENUS HATER.

OUCH...i think this deserves a big ass.....

NUFF SAID!!!:tape: :tape: :tape: :tape:

Foot_Fault
May 4th, 2006, 03:19 PM
LOL. I think we're still expecting way too much out of Martina so soon.

As well as Williams fans of Venus. 80 UE's and over 30UE's for Hingis, unheard of for her.

So yeah there was tensions and things....both ladies played deep within themselves. As for Hings/Venus, they've ALWAYS brought the best out of each other.

Stamp Paid
May 4th, 2006, 03:21 PM
She had a chance at Roland Garros....?

this is news to me...

Il Primo!
May 4th, 2006, 03:22 PM
She had a chance at Roland Garros....?

this is news to me...

:lol: Consedering that they all seem weak on clay,yes she had ;)

jj74
May 4th, 2006, 03:27 PM
Why everybody in this forum use the word choke for every defeated, a choke is when a player has the match almost won and suddenly her game goes down and her rival wins (like Novotna against Graf in 93 wimbledon final). Sorry bur serving for set with only one break of advantage and finally losing in a tight third set is not a choke, maybe not taking profit of her advantages but defenitely not a choke, specially when your rival is Venus Williams. Maybe Venus isn't at her best, but she is always dangerous, remember last year wimbledon

eugreene2
May 4th, 2006, 03:29 PM
Martina is NOT winning RG & it has nothing to do with the match today. Come on people, Hingis is not winning a slam this year. It's GREAT to have her back on the court though. Now, if only God would heal Capriati & Seles & give us one more glimpse of the tour 5-6 years ago.

vogus
May 4th, 2006, 03:29 PM
it's a setback for Hingy for sure. So far in her comeback she hasn't shown that she is Top 10 material. If she disappoints through FO and Wimby, she's in danger of people starting to perceive her as just another player in the Top 30. That's not a bad level but is it good enough to satisfy her?

griffin
May 4th, 2006, 03:29 PM
... and beyond.

You think? :confused:

I appreciate the attempt at parody, I do, I just don't think it's working.

GoDominique
May 4th, 2006, 03:31 PM
I appreciate the attempt at parody, I do, I just don't think it's working.
It never does. I keep trying though.

venus_rulez
May 4th, 2006, 03:32 PM
I would highly doubt this is a choke, simply because any reasonable person, despite the lack of play from Venus, knew that this match was in Venus' hands. If she could find a way to have flashes of her best stuff she'd win this match or she could collapse on a pile of errors. Lots of changes have happened since the last time these two played, but one thing hasn't: Martina still needs a lot of help to beat the biggest and very best players on tour. She had a lot to day and still couldn't pull it out because she ran into the FUCKING VENUS WILLIAMS!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship:

ZeroSOFInfinity
May 4th, 2006, 03:36 PM
Well... losing today's match doesn't mean Hingis have no chance of winning RG... who knows what will happen in the tournament....

MLF
May 4th, 2006, 03:38 PM
I think this match really highlighted the problems Hingis is going to have and why she left the game in the first place. Venus was very rusty but still was dictating the match. Hingis can't play every event with her fate being in the hands of the opponent. I don't doubt that she can be top 8-10 again but is that really what she came back for?

jenny161185
May 4th, 2006, 03:42 PM
martina still needs alot of help beating the top players please? I mean that just sounds so stupid. Ok so Venus hasnt played much lately but she won a slam last year its not as if Hingis lost to some unknown qualifier

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2006, 03:43 PM
It never does. I keep trying though.


I call it a RED HERRING. Maybe you should give up and enjoy the TENNIS fans. HATER. Parody my behind.

You're ticked that VENUS lost more than you are anything else.

tennisluver99
May 4th, 2006, 03:43 PM
She had a chance at Roland Garros....?

this is news to me...

My thoughts exactly :lol:

Infiniti2001
May 4th, 2006, 03:47 PM
You're an idiot anyway. You're pissed that Venus won in the fashion that she did more so than Hingis losing. You are NOT A TENNIS fan. Only a VENUS HATER.


http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3426/box1hh.gif OUCH :lol:

GoDominique
May 4th, 2006, 03:54 PM
You are NOT A TENNIS fan.
If you consider yourself an example for a TENNIS fan, then yeah, I have to agree. :)

morningglory
May 4th, 2006, 03:55 PM
ah well... every player chokes some time...

SAEKeithSerena
May 4th, 2006, 04:01 PM
lmao off that she "choked." she didn't choke, venus showed her who really has the game and determination

AsGoodAsNew
May 4th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Martina is NOT winning RG & it has nothing to do with the match today. Come on people, Hingis is not winning a slam this year. It's GREAT to have her back on the court though. Now, if only God would heal Capriati & Seles & give us one more glimpse of the tour 5-6 years ago.
:worship: :worship: :worship: I agree, the glory years.

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 04:08 PM
... and beyond.

You think? :confused:
I agree somehow, not that i think Hingis will win Roland Garros this year, but she has lost the last two matches on choking, the Svetlana match in miami Hingis was leading 3-1 4-2 had match points in the TB and her serve played a big role, today she wasted a 6-4 3-0 lead, then 0-30 at 5-4 in the second set,she defineltly needs to fix that soon otherwise she wonīt reach the top of the rankings any time soon.
By the way i donīt think these two loses are BAD loses for Martina, after all she lost to two power players, recent grand slam champions, and she is taking them to three sets, barely losing..... but still Martina needs that big weapon to carry her on matches, or at least make her serve more reliable and not as attackable...
I hope to get this match soon!! ;)

Kworb
May 4th, 2006, 04:10 PM
Yep, this is bad for her RG chances. She has to be 100% or players like Venus can bash right through her. Most of the third set Hingis played like an amateur. I think that line call at 5-4 in the second definitely affected her, a lot like the classic final vs. Graf.

Joana
May 4th, 2006, 04:12 PM
By the way i donīt think these two loses are BAD loses for Martina, after all she lost to two power players, recent grand slam champions, and she is taking them to three sets, barely losing..... but still Martina needs that big weapon to carry her on matches, or at least make her serve more reliable and not as attackable...
I hope to get this match soon!! ;)

Yes, this was a bad loss for Martina. Venus could barely stand on her feet late in the 3rd set, and Martina totally lost it, serving double faults and weak serves straight at Venus, not doing anything with the ball, just feeding Venus with short, powder puff shots and in general looking very distraught. She can't possibly be satisfied with this performance.

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 04:16 PM
lmao off that she "choked." she didn't choke, venus showed her who really has the game and determination
Both have game and determination, i believe neither player wanted to lose today and gave her all, and its really a shame, that this match is taking place on a second round.
Hingis should be dissapointed to being so near victory and not closing out, but she has to realize the caliber of the player that she faced today, and that she improved her result from the past meeting against Venus on the red dirt.

Julian
May 4th, 2006, 04:17 PM
only way Martina can win RG is how Nastya won in 2004

LUCK and beating players who beat themselves

its possible!

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 04:26 PM
Yes, this was a bad loss for Martina. Venus could barely stand on her feet late in the 3rd set, and Martina totally lost it, serving double faults and weak serves straight at Venus, not doing anything with the ball, just feeding Venus with short, powder puff shots and in general looking very distraught. She can't possibly be satisfied with this performance.
Well actually we donīt know how Hingis was phisically feeling either, she was probably very tired as well, remmember she is coming from a 4 year retirement, you canīt expect her not to choke, and upset every single player she face.
Hingis is also coming back from a month off the tour, she last played March 27 vs Kuznetsova.
People should remmember how Venus came back from a 6 month injury in 2004 and took her a year to beat a top ten player. Martina has already acomplished that feat twice in less than 2 months of her being back. We should give her time to get used to everything, and if the proper work is done, probably being on the tournament winners circle, who knows, she can do it. Question is will she?

alex14
May 4th, 2006, 04:28 PM
one loss and everyones already counting her out!! shes doing pretty damn good for first yr back, shes still got lots to work on, and shes slowly gonna get it together...lost to the reigning wimbledon champion...in 3 tough sets, nothing to be ashamed of...so why is everyone being so negative? it wasnt as if it was a 6/1 6/1 flogging..

GoDominique
May 4th, 2006, 04:31 PM
Why are so many people assuming that Martina will only get better in the months to come?
It's just as well possible that, when the initial buzz and excitement about her comeback is gone, she'll stagnate or get worse and give it up.

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Why are so many people assuming that Martina will only get better in the months to come?
It's just as well possible that, when the initial buzz and excitement about her comeback is gone, she'll stagnate or get worse and give it up.
No one knows what will happen, at this time last year no one expected Martina to be part of the circuit, today she is back as a top 25 player and improving her ranking, and beating some top ten players, taking also some of them to three sets, which was really unexpected, so fast. If she cameback is because she has the will to take every challenge ahead of her, she is up to the challenge now, and well see if she figures out a way to come out on top or just simply give up, she will decide its up to her.

griffin
May 4th, 2006, 05:07 PM
If she cameback is because she has the will to take every challenge ahead of her, she is up to the challenge now,

I hate to quibble, but having the will to take on a challenge - which I agree she does have now - is not the same as being up to that challenge.

I'm not as down on her chances in general as GoDom is, and I do think her ranking will continue to climb. For a while. But I think once people get over the "omg she's back" and figure out what to do with her game - which some players remember but haven't seen in awhile - those wins over the top 10 are going to get less frequent.

hingis-seles
May 4th, 2006, 05:14 PM
Hingis is mentally weak. This performance was pathetic. She didn't deserve to win. Disgusting.

Brooks.
May 4th, 2006, 05:21 PM
I hate to quibble, but having the will to take on a challenge - which I agree she does have now - is not the same as being up to that challenge.

I'm not as down on her chances in general as GoDom is, and I do think her ranking will continue to climb. For a while. But I think once people get over the "omg she's back" and figure out what to do with her game - which some players remember but haven't seen in awhile - those wins over the top 10 are going to get less frequent.

and I think Hingis should expect this...but let's remember that Martina watched everything that happened in 04' ...she watched Myskina win the French Open by mostly just being consistent...I think Martina came back not because she wants to dominate the sport ...I think she kinda realizes it's not going to happen...but she will have opportunities to win big tournaments...the tour is very open right now

LoveFifteen
May 4th, 2006, 05:23 PM
I think once her ranking is a bit higher, she'll be able to get some easier first and second round matches. She'll be able to play herself into better form and get some confidence. I think people are being too hard on her. I remember when Sharapova lost to her in Tokyo, and people were saying that Sharapova should just retire. People tend to be a bit extreme around here. LOL

It's been tough to see Martina lose so many matches this year where she's won the first set and gets very close to closing it out in the second, only to lose it in the third. She's going to get more and more match-tough as the season progresses, and she's also going to get better and better fitness. I'm not going to count her out yet. Her losses to Kuznetsova and Venus were not beatdowns. They were very close matches.

Having returned to playing tennis recently, I find myself having the same struggle. I start out well, but as I get closer to serving it out, I have mental weakness because my serve is a big weakness. In fact, I hate serving. I prefer to return. In any case, I can imagine Martina still isn't as mentally tough as she will be as the year progresses.

Paneru
May 4th, 2006, 05:25 PM
Venus is 2nd round isn't easy for anyone.

Relax :yeah:

Exactly!

griffin
May 4th, 2006, 05:28 PM
...I think Martina came back not because she wants to dominate the sport ...I think she kinda realizes it's not going to happen...but she will have opportunities to win big tournaments...the tour is very open right now

I don't think she'd quit either, I'm guessing one of the things she realized during her leave of absence was that she really did love playing tennis and competing.

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 05:31 PM
I hate to quibble, but having the will to take on a challenge - which I agree she does have now - is not the same as being up to that challenge.

I'm not as down on her chances in general as GoDom is, and I do think her ranking will continue to climb. For a while. But I think once people get over the "omg she's back" and figure out what to do with her game - which some players remember but haven't seen in awhile - those wins over the top 10 are going to get less frequent.
Certainly each tournament she is playing simply are not supporting what you are saying.
A 4 year retired Hingis comesback and right now is ranked in the top 30 with 8 events played only (26 today and will move up with her performance this week).
Hingisīs consisntecy is amazing, apart from the Penetta loss she has been losing only to top 15 ranked players. And from the top 22 of today Martina has beaten 8 of them this year already (and Kirilenko twice make up 9 wins against this group of players). Also Taken 2 others from this group to 6-4 in the third battles (Kim and Venus).
To deny her competitiveness, and deny how competitve her game is today, and her chances is simply silly. Results speak for themselves.

LUIS9
May 4th, 2006, 05:32 PM
LOL. I think we're still expecting way too much out of Martina so soon.

Precisely, infact I thought Venus would have won in straights not the other way around. Hingis did more than well enough to push a resurgent and hungry Venus Williams.

Good to see this rivalry has still not banished. :worship:

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 05:36 PM
and I think Hingis should expect this...but let's remember that Martina watched everything that happened in 04' ...she watched Myskina win the French Open by mostly just being consistent...I think Martina came back not because she wants to dominate the sport ...I think she kinda realizes it's not going to happen...but she will have opportunities to win big tournaments...the tour is very open right now
She cameback to see how she would fare against the top players. She has not said she would dominate again :rolleyes:.
Canīt believe how some of you can expect Martina to dominate the sport after 4 years of abscense. And to take in consideration that when she left the tour she was struggling big time with power tennis, and was barely ranked in the top ten then.

Minotaur
May 4th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Hingis lost to injured Venus in a very pathetic way. Stupid errors by Martina in the end of the match... And yes.. she choked... putting very unnes. errors and double faults on the key points of the match

Randy John Andy
May 4th, 2006, 05:46 PM
I think it’s unfair to say Martina choked; it’s not fair for Martina, and neither for Venus. I think Venus managed to step up her game when the cramps started to happen, and that shows how great a fighter she is. It was a difficult match for both of them, and the one who was mentally stronger won.

We shouldn’t ignore the incredible season Martina is having. I don’t see any other player coming back from a three years absence, climbing the rankings, and being close to the top twenty in five months. It’s just unbelievable. Her game has evolved, has improved, and I can see how she responds a lot better to the other player’s attacks. This has been her first clay tournament in a lot of time, so just let her take her time.

Hopefully, both ladies will be at he best in a month or so, so we could enjoy a mouth-watering Roland Garros.

Dawn Marie
May 4th, 2006, 06:04 PM
I hate to quibble, but having the will to take on a challenge - which I agree she does have now - is not the same as being up to that challenge.

I'm not as down on her chances in general as GoDom is, and I do think her ranking will continue to climb. For a while. But I think once people get over the "omg she's back" and figure out what to do with her game - which some players remember but haven't seen in awhile - those wins over the top 10 are going to get less frequent.

Griff, I'm not so sure about that "wow factor". I use to feel that way but Hingis is just to strong naturally. Her skillz are natural. A gift that some players will never know how to play against. I think the opposite now. I think Hingis is going to upset more top ten players. In fact make that top nine players. Hingis will be top ten soon enough. The more match fit she gets and the more she plays I think she has a shot at being a major force in the slams. It will be most fun to see how her career pans out after her retirement and then her return.

griffin
May 4th, 2006, 06:26 PM
Griff, I'm not so sure about that "wow factor". I use to feel that way but Hingis is just to strong naturally. Her skillz are natural. A gift that some players will never know how to play against. I think the opposite now. I think Hingis is going to upset more top ten players. In fact make that top nine players. Hingis will be top ten soon enough. The more match fit she gets and the more she plays I think she has a shot at being a major force in the slams. It will be most fun to see how her career pans out after her retirement and then her return.

I have never discounted her natural abilities - or her natural athleticism, something people have always tended to overlook because they were too busy focusing on the "power vs brains" storyline bs. But I do think a lot of adjustment going on: certainly Hingis is adjusting to the game on the tour, but the tour is still adjusting to her. I think her ranking will continue to climb, but in the long term, things are going to get harder for her.

It would be fun to have her prove me wrong.

faboozadoo15
May 4th, 2006, 06:42 PM
she put in the poorest performance of her return today, that's for sure. stupid error after error. i consider it a choke.

but anyhow, it was against venus, not some uknown qualifier, so hopefully this will make her want to do better.

spencercarlos
May 4th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Things in the short run, are going well for Martina, actually better than expected, as you said she is adapting to the tour, the power game, her body, the serve, her groundies, figuring out what to do on the tennis court to compete against todayīs game, why then in the long run will be harder? Do you think she canīt adapt to the tour? :lol:
Afterall was not Hingisīs game out dated to compete against the power players in 2002 when she left the tour?

PLP
May 4th, 2006, 07:23 PM
I think this match really highlighted the problems Hingis is going to have and why she left the game in the first place. Venus was very rusty but still was dictating the match. Hingis can't play every event with her fate being in the hands of the opponent. I don't doubt that she can be top 8-10 again but is that really what she came back for?
As a huge Martina fan I think you make a great point. However, I think even Marrtina would admit that she let that happen today. She could have been more aggressive when she was very close to victory but CHOSE not to, she has to realzie that and she has to change it to win in a match against an Opponenet like Venus, not that there really are many like Venus, but you know what I mean!

PLP
May 4th, 2006, 07:35 PM
As a Hingis fan I felt very negative about her loss at first but after taking a nap and coming back to all of this Martina-trashing I have some thoughts:

1. Venus was psyched up for this match! She fought harder than anyone, as usual, and Martina still ALMOST beat her. That's very encouraging. Venus deserved to win becasue she brought it...Martina has to remember that and go for it at the end.
2. Martina has 2 more clay warmups before RG. It really doesn't matter if she only wins a few rounds in those tournaments as well, she is getting valuable match experience and I would rather not see her play until the final every week as that would tire anyone out. Would she have entered all three of these tourni's if she thought she would win them all?? Of course not!
3. She didn't play well today but was still in this match until the last point, she didn't go away, she fought, she made mental errors, Her shots didn't go in on GP's, but she still fought. I know it's tough but this an encouraging , if frustrating performance by Martina IMO. She will continue to improve from these tough losses.

griffin
May 4th, 2006, 07:37 PM
why then in the long run will be harder? Do you think she canīt adapt to the tour? :lol:
Afterall was not Hingisīs game out dated to compete against the power players in 2002 when she left the tour?

She will I just think the top players will do a better job of adapting to her.

I think you're last sentence may not have come out as you intended, but I wouldn't argue with it as stated.

raquel
May 4th, 2006, 08:19 PM
At 6-4 5-4 0-30 When Hingis argued,it remind me of the french open against Steffi and at that special moment I knew Hingis will loose againThat was the moment I knew Hingis was getting really edgy, even though she was still in a good position. The umpire came down and called it out, yet Hingis was still desperately querying. I knew then she wasn't particularly confident.

^bibi^
May 4th, 2006, 08:21 PM
LOL. I think we're still expecting way too much out of Martina so soon.

definitely... :sad:

But I so wanted her to win that one :sad:

raquel
May 4th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Martina is NOT winning RG & it has nothing to do with the match today.
I agree, and I think it is do with the second serve. Dementieva's much maligned serve is actually more effective than Hingis's second serve. Hingis is too breakable and I will be very surprised if serving like that she gets to a clay final. A couple of quarter finals, maybe a semi final, but that serve is a major achilles heel.

I also thought she lacked confidence today, which is unlike her. At 6-4, 3-0 she seemed content to let Venus error the match away. Hingis stopped making the play and relied on Venus making errors. When Venus cut down on the errors and got it level again, Hingis still played very passive tennis rather than try and take control of rallies.