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View Full Version : Kenyans protest brutal killing of HIV-infected boy


Rocketta
Apr 20th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Kenyans protest brutal killing of HIV-infected boy

Thu Apr 20, 8:58 AM ET



Several hundred Kenyan AIDS activists took to the streets of Nairobi on Thursday to protest at the killing of an HIV-infected boy, whom they say was hacked with a garden fork by his uncle because of his status.

A week after 15-year-old Isaiah Gakuyo was killed in Nyeri in central Kenya, police were still looking for his uncle, who was the orphaned boy's guardian.

About 300 people demonstrated on Thursday, saying the killing highlighted the stigma faced by those living with HIV/AIDS in Kenya.

"The boy was facing violence on a daily basis," said Inviolata Mwali Mmbwavi, one of the march organisers who runs a group working with Kenyan AIDS victims.

"We don't want this to happen again," she added to Reuters.

Gakuyo was often beaten and denied food at home, added Asunta Wagura, executive director of the Kenya Network of Women with AIDS.

"We supported him as he was an unwelcome dependent in the family," Wagura said, adding that the organization had been trying to find him another home.

HIV/AIDS prevalence in the east African country has declined to seven percent in 2003 from about 10 percent in the late 1990s.

Thousands of Kenyans living with the virus cannot access even the cheapest anti-retroviral drugs, which are too expensive in private hospitals and not available in public ones.

Rocketta
Apr 20th, 2006, 11:56 PM
sad stuff. :tears:

meyerpl
Apr 21st, 2006, 01:20 AM
I'm frequently stunned by how cruel human beings can be.

Rocketta
Apr 21st, 2006, 01:23 AM
I'm frequently stunned by how cruel human beings can be.

I'm not....history has taught us that humans are the absolute worst thing this planet has to offer. :shrug:

meyerpl
Apr 21st, 2006, 01:41 AM
I'm not....history has taught us that humans are the absolute worst thing this planet has to offer. :shrug:
"In discarding the monkey and substituting man, our father in heaven did the monkey an undeserved injustice." -Mark Twain

"Such is the human race. Often it seems such a pity that Noah and his party did not miss the boat." -Mark Twain

"Man was made at the end of the week's work, when God was tired." -Mark Twain

"Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass." -Mark Twain

"If man had created man he would be ashamed of his performance." -Mark Twain

"Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." -Mark Twain

Crazy Canuck
Apr 21st, 2006, 01:55 AM
One can only hope that the man who hacked at him with a fork got a lot of blood on himself in the process.

Yes, I'm awful, but come on.

Rocketta
Apr 21st, 2006, 01:07 PM
One can only hope that the man who hacked at him with a fork got a lot of blood on himself in the process.

Yes, I'm awful, but come on.

Well they called it a garden fork, which probably means a pitch fork so I would have to say probably not. :(

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 21st, 2006, 02:04 PM
We really don't know enough about this story to make an accessment.
It really depends on why this kid is orphaned and if this kid contracted HIV while in the possession of his uncle.

If his parents happened to die from complications from HIV/AIDS, and this uncle decided to take it on himself to take care of this kid and then the kid goes and makes the same possible mistake that his parents did then I don't know if I wouldn't try to kill this kid myself.

meyerpl
Apr 21st, 2006, 08:47 PM
We really don't know enough about this story to make an accessment.It really depends on why this kid is orphaned and if this kid contracted HIV while in the possession of his uncle.

If his parents happened to die from complications from HIV/AIDS, and this uncle decided to take it on himself to take care of this kid and then the kid goes and makes the same possible mistake that his parents did then I don't know if I wouldn't try to kill this kid myself.
Creep? Is that you? 'Cause Creep is the only poster I've ever seen make a statement as fucked-up as this one on this board. Creep? I've missed you Creep. Say something derisive about people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances. Say something about killing puppies and kittens.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 21st, 2006, 09:23 PM
Creep? Is that you? 'Cause Creep is the only poster I've ever seen make a statement as fucked-up as this one on this board. Creep? I've missed you Creep. Say something derisive about people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances. Say something about killing puppies and kittens.

The statement is an if, a very big if i might add.
The if statement definately depends on the parents orphaning the child because of their HIV/AIDS condition and the kid contracting HIV/AIDS after being in the uncle's possession.

If that happens to be the case and the kid didn't learn from his parent unforunate situation, then I might try to kill him too.

It would be similar to a kid losing his parents because of a drug overdose and then doing the same thing after his guardian tried their best to protect them.
After the guardians find out the kid didn't OD, they probably might try to kill him too.

meyerpl
Apr 21st, 2006, 09:31 PM
So, if my sister and brother-in-law die of a drug overdose and I assume guardianship of my nephew, and I catch the kid messing around with dope, it's go time with a pitch fork?

hablo
Apr 21st, 2006, 09:31 PM
We really don't know enough about this story to make an accessment.
It really depends on why this kid is orphaned and if this kid contracted HIV while in the possession of his uncle.

If his parents happened to die from complications from HIV/AIDS, and this uncle decided to take it on himself to take care of this kid and then the kid goes and makes the same possible mistake that his parents did then I don't know if I wouldn't try to kill this kid myself.
you never cease to 'amaze' me.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 21st, 2006, 09:43 PM
So, if my sister and brother-in-law die of a drug overdose and I assume guardianship of my nephew, and I catch the kid messing around with dope, it's go time with a pitch fork?

I would at least give him the beating of his life.
He is not going to ruin his life with that stuff while in my house after I just had to deal with my sister dieing from a similar situation.
I would find the first thing I see and just start beating.
If that happened to be a shoe, then he's going to get beat with a shoe.
If that's a pitchfork, then...I don't have a pitchfork and I don't know anyone with a pitchfork so I don't know if I would try to use it.

meyerpl
Apr 21st, 2006, 10:29 PM
I would at least give him the beating of his life.
He is not going to ruin his life with that stuff while in my house after I just had to deal with my sister dieing from a similar situation.
I would find the first thing I see and just start beating.
If that happened to be a shoe, then he's going to get beat with a shoe.
If that's a pitchfork, then...I don't have a pitchfork and I don't know anyone with a pitchfork so I don't know if I would try to use it.
How can I argue with that? Kids who are beaten have much higher self-esteem. Kids with high self-esteem are much less likely to use illegal drugs and engage in other risky behavior. If you want to make a child or young person feel good about himself, grab the nearest object and start beating him vigorously. If you check any prison or juvenile detention facility, one thing you'll find is that the inmates weren't exposed to or subjected to violence during their formative years.

Rocketta
Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:54 AM
you never cease to 'amaze' me.

not me, it's actually getting predictable. :shrug:

Rocketta
Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:55 AM
We really don't know enough about this story to make an accessment.
It really depends on why this kid is orphaned and if this kid contracted HIV while in the possession of his uncle.

If his parents happened to die from complications from HIV/AIDS, and this uncle decided to take it on himself to take care of this kid and then the kid goes and makes the same possible mistake that his parents did then I don't know if I wouldn't try to kill this kid myself.

The only thing I have to say to this tripe is 'Thanks for the Vcash contribution.' :shrug:

Veritas
Apr 22nd, 2006, 04:02 AM
We really don't know enough about this story to make an accessment.
It really depends on why this kid is orphaned and if this kid contracted HIV while in the possession of his uncle.

If his parents happened to die from complications from HIV/AIDS, and this uncle decided to take it on himself to take care of this kid and then the kid goes and makes the same possible mistake that his parents did then I don't know if I wouldn't try to kill this kid myself.

:tape:

I have knives in my kitchen. If I have kids and found out that one of them did drugs, I sure wouldn't take them out of the draw and use it on him/her.

That's because the whole point about helping someone is just that - helping them out. Adding to their sufferings isn't included. And ending their sufferings doesn't mean ending their life.

tenn_ace
Apr 22nd, 2006, 04:07 AM
We really don't know enough about this story to make an accessment.
It really depends on why this kid is orphaned and if this kid contracted HIV while in the possession of his uncle.

If his parents happened to die from complications from HIV/AIDS, and this uncle decided to take it on himself to take care of this kid and then the kid goes and makes the same possible mistake that his parents did then I don't know if I wouldn't try to kill this kid myself.

this post is actually "sicker" than the news itself :rolleyes: Sounds like Hitler should be your idol.

Kunal
Apr 22nd, 2006, 04:35 AM
ghastly

Fingon
Apr 22nd, 2006, 06:26 AM
The statement is an if, a very big if i might add.
The if statement definately depends on the parents orphaning the child because of their HIV/AIDS condition and the kid contracting HIV/AIDS after being in the uncle's possession.

If that happens to be the case and the kid didn't learn from his parent unforunate situation, then I might try to kill him too.

It would be similar to a kid losing his parents because of a drug overdose and then doing the same thing after his guardian tried their best to protect them.
After the guardians find out the kid didn't OD, they probably might try to kill him too.

so you are telling that all the people that contracted HIV by their own acts (eg drugs, sex) should be killed?

you are a fucking asshole. And if you are being serious, a fucking sicko.

gentenaire
Apr 22nd, 2006, 07:38 AM
If you knew a little more about the culture in Kenya, you wouldn't be making these kind of statements, Wannabeknowitall.

Recentely, there was a very interesting documentary about Kenya and its AIDS problem by a Belgian journalist. She'd written a book about HIV positive people, from Europe, America, Africa...When writing this book, she came in touch with Achieng, a Kenyan HIV positive woman. Achieng had found a tiny baby that was left to die, and decided to take care of it. She named the baby Hope. At the time when the journalist came in contact with Achieng, Achieng was in a very bad state and was convinced she didn't have much longer to live. She was worried about who would take care of little Hope. So she asked the journalist if she wouldn't adopt Hope. The journalist did.

Now, for this documentary, the journalist went back to Kenya, to find out everything about Hope's background, find out how she was orphaned, who left her to die like that, where she was born, if she has any siblings, etc. So that in 15 years, when Hope is older and starts asking about her background, she'd have answers.

The things she'd learned about Kenyan culture are quite shocking. You could see the Kenyan women were almost begging for that the rest of the world would find out how terrible it is.

This journalist had previously been in Afghanistan and was convinced that Afghanistan was by far the worst place in the world for women. After making this documentary, she now feels women in Africa are much worse off. Afghan women have no rights, but in a way they're protected by Islam. African women are fair game.

Here are a few cultural aspects that help in the rise of AIDS. THe problem is far bigger than the 7% they claim. The majority simply doesn't want to be tested since they prefer not to know.

90% of Kenyan girls are raped before they're 20! 90%! Raped just isn't considered a big crime, it's almost considered part of their culture. Also, there's this belief in Kenya that men can be cured from AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. Even tiny babies are raped!

Women are not supposed to see men's privates, so it's impossible for a women to even suggest that the man use a condom.

Polygamy is big in Kenya. A man can have as many wives as he wants. If he gets one HIV infected wife, it doesn't take long until all his wives are HIV positive.

When a man dies, his wives and daughters need to be purified. Purifying is basicallly sleeping with a purifier. That's actually a profession over there. A man who just sleeps with all the widows and daughters! He's a walking AIDS bomb. The women can't refuse or else they're shunned by their community. It's truly awful.

When you hear about all these things, it's hard to find much hope for Africa. It really seems a lost continent. :( Fortunately, there are more and more strong Kenyan women who're trying to change things. Let's hope they succeed.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 22nd, 2006, 10:39 AM
If you knew a little more about the culture in Kenya, you wouldn't be making these kind of statements, Wannabeknowitall.

Recentely, there was a very interesting documentary about Kenya and its AIDS problem by a Belgian journalist. She'd written a book about HIV positive people, from Europe, America, Africa...When writing this book, she came in touch with Achieng, a Kenyan HIV positive woman. Achieng had found a tiny baby that was left to die, and decided to take care of it. She named the baby Hope. At the time when the journalist came in contact with Achieng, Achieng was in a very bad state and was convinced she didn't have much longer to live. She was worried about who would take care of little Hope. So she asked the journalist if she wouldn't adopt Hope. The journalist did.

Now, for this documentary, the journalist went back to Kenya, to find out everything about Hope's background, find out how she was orphaned, who left her to die like that, where she was born, if she has any siblings, etc. So that in 15 years, when Hope is older and starts asking about her background, she'd have answers.

The things she'd learned about Kenyan culture are quite shocking. You could see the Kenyan women were almost begging for that the rest of the world would find out how terrible it is.

This journalist had previously been in Afghanistan and was convinced that Afghanistan was by far the worst place in the world for women. After making this documentary, she now feels women in Africa are much worse off. Afghan women have no rights, but in a way they're protected by Islam. African women are fair game.

Here are a few cultural aspects that help in the rise of AIDS. THe problem is far bigger than the 7% they claim. The majority simply doesn't want to be tested since they prefer not to know.

90% of Kenyan girls are raped before they're 20! 90%! Raped just isn't considered a big crime, it's almost considered part of their culture. Also, there's this belief in Kenya that men can be cured from AIDS by sleeping with a virgin. Even tiny babies are raped!

Women are not supposed to see men's privates, so it's impossible for a women to even suggest that the man use a condom.

Polygamy is big in Kenya. A man can have as many wives as he wants. If he gets one HIV infected wife, it doesn't take long until all his wives are HIV positive.

When a man dies, his wives and daughters need to be purified. Purifying is basicallly sleeping with a purifier. That's actually a profession over there. A man who just sleeps with all the widows and daughters! He's a walking AIDS bomb. The women can't refuse or else they're shunned by their community. It's truly awful.

When you hear about all these things, it's hard to find much hope for Africa. It really seems a lost continent. :( Fortunately, there are more and more strong Kenyan women who're trying to change things. Let's hope they succeed.

I actually know about most of the things you happen to say about women under Islam in Africa.

I don't think it has much to do with a 15 year old boy who is under the possession of his uncle though.
The Kenya Network for AIDS supported him.
Why didn't they do a good enough job making sure he didn't become a second generation HIV/AIDS infectee while in the possession of his uncle (if that's what happened in the first place)?

You can't just expect the women to change things in these countries.
The men from an early age need to learn that the things that are going on in their culture puts them at a bigger risk for HIV/AIDS than other cultures.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 22nd, 2006, 11:07 AM
so you are telling that all the people that contracted HIV by their own acts (eg drugs, sex) should be killed?

you are a fucking asshole. And if you are being serious, a fucking sicko.

I'm a fucking asshole for sympathizing with a man who has seen a whole generation of the future of Africa just dissapear?
You're the asshole. This is just some story to you.

I did not at anytime say that all people that contracted HIV by their own acts should be killed.
This has nothing to do with HIV/AIDS.
This has to do with the possible second generation of the same mistake being done and a guardian who is suppose to just sit there and do nothing or just watch it become a third generation act or a fourth generation act.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 22nd, 2006, 11:15 AM
The only thing I have to say to this tripe is 'Thanks for the Vcash contribution.' :shrug:

You frowned at this man not getting blood on him which could have spread HIV/AIDS and you're calling me out on my post?
How dare you!!!
You're right. Humans are the absolute worse thing this planet has to offer and you're not helping that impairment either.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 22nd, 2006, 11:30 AM
this post is actually "sicker" than the news itself :rolleyes: Sounds like Hitler should be your idol.

My post isn't sick.
Again this is just a news story for you and that's really the sick part.
As long as it's just over there and away from you, you can deal with it.
You don't know what this man has been through.
Could it be any worse than anywhere else in Africa? Probably not.

I can't say how I would feel though to see my family and friends die around me (before most of them turned 35) and there was nothing I could do about it except pray and hope.
Maybe the uncle snapped.

You try to live in a place where all hope seems lost and see if you don't do the same.

gentenaire
Apr 22nd, 2006, 11:56 AM
I actually know about most of the things you happen to say about women under Islam in Africa.

I seeems you don't, because none of the things I mentioned are about Islam. These people aren't muslims, they're Christians.

I don't think it has much to do with a 15 year old boy who is under the possession of his uncle though.

My point is that this kid most likely was infected from the womb! Considering he's an orphan, it's not that far fetched to think his parents died from AIDS and passed the disease on to him. I felt you were a bit too quick to lay the blame on the boy. You compared it to drugs, whereas it's nothing like drugs. In Kenya, you can get HIV without doing anything wrong! The majority of HIV positive people there are entirely blameless! These people need help and support, no unfair judgement. You're talking about mistakes the parents made. Who says the parents made a mistake? You're convinced that if you have HIV, you've made a mistake.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:09 PM
I seeems you don't, because none of the things I mentioned are about Islam. These people aren't muslims, they're Christians.



My point is that this kid most likely was infected from the womb! Considering he's an orphan, it's not that far fetched to think his parents died from AIDS and passed the disease on to him. I felt you were a bit too quick to lay the blame on the boy. You compared it to drugs, whereas it's nothing like drugs. In Kenya, you can get HIV without doing anything wrong! The majority of HIV positive people there are entirely blameless! These people need help and support, no unfair judgement. You're talking about mistakes the parents made. Who says the parents made a mistake? You're convinced that if you have HIV, you've made a mistake.

Not all of them are Christians.
My viewpoint which I happened to say from the get go was a BIG IF was the kid contracting HIV while in the possession of the uncle.
If the kid was infected from the womb than I cannot or will not justify what this man did.
I don't consider it to be a mistake until the next generation get themselves caught into a similar situation IF the kid wasn't infected from the womb.
That to me means that not enough prevention wasn't taken to stop what has been considered an epidemic for over 2 decades.

gentenaire
Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:35 PM
Not all of them are Christians.

80% of them are! But that's besides the point because none of the things I mentioned had anything to do with relgion.
You seemed to think I was talking about abuse in Islam, I wasn't. And if you knew anything about the situation there, you wouldn't have made that presumption, nor would you have presumed from the start that the boy was guilty and that the uncle may have been right in killing the boy.
You've stigmatised this boy from the start, just like his uncle, just like the people who bullied him. It's because of those kind of actions, that people refuse to get tested, that they prefer not to know than te be stigmatised like that. Stigmatising HIV patients only adds in the spread of the disease.

Wannabeknowitall
Apr 22nd, 2006, 01:10 PM
80% of them are! But that's besides the point because none of the things I mentioned had anything to do with relgion.
You seemed to think I was talking about abuse in Islam, I wasn't. And if you knew anything about the situation there, you wouldn't have made that presumption, nor would you have presumed from the start that the boy was guilty and that the uncle may have been right in killing the boy.
You've stigmatised this boy from the start, just like his uncle, just like the people who bullied him. It's because of those kind of actions, that people refuse to get tested, that they prefer not to know than te be stigmatised like that. Stigmatising HIV patients only adds in the spread of the disease.

Not one of these again. It's my view that stops people from doing this and that.
What you happen to say was what Mary Robinson has been reiterating time and time again for the last couple of years.
It wasn't anything new. SHE was the one who put the Islam spin on it in Africa NOT I.
You go after her if you believe she's giving out false information about AIDS in Africa.
I at no time stigmatized HIV patients. I gave an if statement that could have been likely to explain how the situation was possible.
Although it was an unlikely possibility because of what the circumstances depended on it was still another outlook on it.
I also tried to take HIV/AIDS out of the equation by explaining that perhaps it was a generational impairment that was an issue and not the stigma of HIV at all.

Rocketta
Apr 22nd, 2006, 04:02 PM
You frowned at this man not getting blood on him which could have spread HIV/AIDS and you're calling me out on my post?
How dare you!!!
You're right. Humans are the absolute worse thing this planet has to offer and you're not helping that impairment either.


Thanks again for the vcash contribution...:hatoff:

meyerpl
Apr 22nd, 2006, 04:25 PM
Not all of them are Christians.
My viewpoint which I happened to say from the get go was a BIG IF was the kid contracting HIV while in the possession of the uncle.
If the kid was infected from the womb than I cannot or will not justify what this man did.
I don't consider it to be a mistake until the next generation get themselves caught into a similar situation IF the kid wasn't infected from the womb.
That to me means that not enough prevention wasn't taken to stop what has been considered an epidemic for over 2 decades.
You'd do better to say you were drunk when you stated that perhaps the uncle was justified in killing the boy with a pitchfork and simply retract the remark.

serenafan08
Apr 22nd, 2006, 04:54 PM
That is awful...that poor little boy couldn't help himself! That is just terrible that people would resort to killing him instead of offering some sort of help. :sad: