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View Full Version : The Federer connection. You are not gonna believe this....


tennisrox
Apr 20th, 2006, 06:11 PM
I posted an opinion-piece by a coach from tennis-one.com a while ago. This is what he said:
Similarly, at the Bank of the West tournament in Stanford, watching both the matches and the practice courts, I observe effort, I hear unimaginable grunting, I note players warming up around the practice courts with a jogging routine that appears more plodding than gliding, and all the time I am looking for grace, for fluidity, for the real thing.

Well enough about where I am coming from – I have watched Sania Mirza both in a qualifying match, and then in the first round of the main draw. She plays with uncanny precision, but without a trace of effort. She hits with disguise, she brings it to the opponent, but somehow without the customary grunting – I think Sania has the tools to go quite far in the women’s game, to my eye she is the next “real thing.”

To my eye, Sania plays with just this type of pinpoint offense, with equal parts disguise and economy. One of her opponent’s coaches has termed her style “first strike tennis” but I would add first strike with unusual accuracy, without a trace of effort, and with disguise that I more associate with the maestro Federer. Watch this young player - she is on the way up!



This was written by a fellow-poster a while ago for which he recieved much ridicule it must be said :

All I can say for sure is that Sania has the potential to be entertaining in the same way that Federer is today. She's just that special.

Now take a look at this. Its incredible....

http://web.mid-day.com/ArticleImages/images47/sania-playing.jpg



http://images.picsearch.com/is?8432028796220



http://www.tsf.pt/imagens/2004/06/noticias/imgs/28/pequeno/roger_federer_epa.jpg

http://www.its.uci.edu/~jaykay/lpmbpics/sania-nat-games-01-1.jpg


http://www.roger-federer.org/pictures/wimbledon/roger%20federer%2027.jpg

http://in.yimg.com/xp/reuters_ids_new/20050302/3154444338.jpg



http://img.interia.pl/sport/nimg/Roger_Federer_pewnie_copy_549907.jpg

http://expressen.se/content/1/c6/43/46/70/3535041c.jpg

http://www.tennisboxoffice.com/wimbledon_images/stevesimages/EMP%20Federer3.jpg

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/images/2006/01/05/20060105_Sania-Jan-4.jpg


http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/07/04/0407_wimbledon05_gallery__353x550.jpg

http://www.sania-mirza.in/photos/sania-mirza-124.jpg

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_images/2005-1-19-fedderer.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/09/10/wfatwa10.jpg

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2004/09/05/sp_us_open2.jpg

http://www.sania-mirza.in/photos/sania-mirza-155.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060402/i/r2273981778.jpg

http://www.sania-mirza.in/photos/sania-mirza-7.jpg

http://www.roger-federer.org/pictures/wimbledon/roger%20federer%201.jpg

http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/slideshow/44282/5.jpg

http://www.news.ch/news_img/article/68484-8.jpg

http://yogesh.bizhat.com/others/sm/smn%20(5).jpg

http://mud.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/2484913124

http://www.espnstar.com/photo/1119494534000sania_mirza_230605.jpg


http://mud.mm-a7.yimg.com/image/2496399667

http://saniamirza.ewestpost.com/pictures/SaniaMirzaAustralianOpen2006Picture.jpg

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/sport/tennis/wimbledon/federer_forehand_d.jpg

http://yogesh.bizhat.com/others/sm/sm%20(53).jpg


http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/oct30/img/spcaps.jpg
http://www.nos.nl/archief/nieuws/images/sport/165/tennis/abn_amro_2003/federer_220203.jpg

http://yogesh.bizhat.com/others/sm/nayasm%20(37).jpg

http://www.roger-federer.org/pictures/western_southern_financial_masters/roger%20federer%207.jpg

http://www.tennisfreunde-much.de/Impressionen/Tennisspieler-Bilder/Federer-Roger/roger-federer-switzerland_12_small.jpg

http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00180/Sania_Mirza_180797c.jpg

Any questions? :cool:
I made a post in the steffi graf thread a while ago, about how exceptional muscular co-ordination, and balance was the basis for the wrist-snap that makes sania, roger, and steffi's forehand's special. You'll understand why i've posted some of these pictures. There's clearly something similiar in the way that they both maintain their centre of balance.

BTW' i'd appreciate it if y'all don't rush to post this on GM or something. The board will crash. Save it for when she starts to figure out what to do with that forehand. ;)

Mightymirza
Apr 20th, 2006, 09:11 PM
yes done..it does look realy simlar though..But roggie somehow manages to give a lot of topspin on the ball and sani baby hits basically flat...But yeah the body balance is veryy simlilay..:yeah: ..never noticed that before must say..Also Sani baby can actually think of changing racket to something like rogers I personally think...She has such a good technique power will come automatically..She can definately do with a smaller racket head maybe..But nice job tennisrox

abdullah
Apr 21st, 2006, 09:29 AM
hey nice job dude... luved this post !

Apoorv
Apr 21st, 2006, 10:02 AM
the body posture and angle of racket face are amazingly similar. if a coach speaks like that then sania's game has definitely got something special. i think we just need to wait some time and see her game blossom for good.

tennisrox
Apr 21st, 2006, 02:53 PM
yes done..it does look realy simlar though..But roggie somehow manages to give a lot of topspin on the ball and sani baby hits basically flat...But yeah the body balance is veryy simlilay..:yeah: ..never noticed that before must say..Also Sani baby can actually think of changing racket to something like rogers I personally think...She has such a good technique power will come automatically..She can definately do with a smaller racket head maybe..But nice job tennisrox

Its not that noticable to the naked eye unless you look really closely at their strokes. I think a lot of people have noticed a similiarity between their forehands, topspin or flat their mechanics are very similiar (and as these pictures show, they are actually identical). But what really connects them is the exceptional sense of balance which makes this shot possible. You'll see it very clearly in the way sania shifts her weight when switching from closed to open stance forehand. She looks startlingly similiar to federer. What makes federer so special amongst other things, is that he is probably the most well balanced player ever in the men's game. Thats where his superb mechanics, and accuracy comes from. He keeps his upper body so still, and rotates his body around a perfect vertical axis during his shots.

Another thing you'll notice is that federer has the ability to come to a complete standstill from a dead run in a single step without sliding around, while other players take two or three steps to absorb the momentum. He does this by getting down on his haunches, lowering his centre of gravity such that he can absorb all the momentum without overbalancing. Tell me, what do you see sania doing here? ;)

http://yogesh.bizhat.com/others/sm/zasm%20(21).jpg

The most interesting point about these pictures is the head position. Federer keeps his head still and eyes on the ball almost upto, and perhaps even after the point of contact with the ball. Its not until halfway through the follow-through that he actually lifts his head.
Sania is very similiar, and you can see it in these pics. Absoutely erect back, head still eyes on the ball uptil the point of contact. She watches the ball after it leaves the racquet through her peripheral vision so there isn't too much movement or instability of the head, which of course would mess up the vertical axis. Watch her very closely, and you'll see her snap her head forward only halfway through the follow-through. A lot of players, from davenport, clijsters, serena, to sampras and agassi himself turn to face the net before the ball even makes contact with the racquet. Juan Carlos Ferrero is another player with exaggerated stillness like Federer, although I don't know how aware he is of the point of contact.
Actually you should try it yourself and you'll see that your accuracy improves by keeping your head still, and eye on the ball. I find it impossible to watch the ball at point of contact, as my hand-eye co-ordination isn't great, but delaying it as long as possible has improved my accuracy a bit. This picture you posted illustrates the point beautifully. Her head is still facing the point of contact rather than the trajectory of the ball, even though she is halfway into the follow-through:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060116/sp3.jpg

Mightymirza
Apr 21st, 2006, 08:28 PM
Its not that noticable to the naked eye unless you look really closely at their strokes. I think a lot of people have noticed a similiarity between their forehands, topspin or flat their mechanics are very similiar (and as these pictures show, they are actually identical). But what really connects them is the exceptional sense of balance which makes this shot possible. You'll see it very clearly in the way sania shifts her weight when switching from closed to open stance forehand. She looks startlingly similiar to federer. What makes federer so special amongst other things, is that he is probably the most well balanced player ever in the men's game. Thats where his superb mechanics, and accuracy comes from. He keeps his upper body so still, and rotates his body around a perfect vertical axis during his shots.

Another thing you'll notice is that federer has the ability to come to a complete standstill from a dead run in a single step without sliding around, while other players take two or three steps to absorb the momentum. He does this by getting down on his haunches, lowering his centre of gravity such that he can absorb all the momentum without overbalancing. Tell me, what do you see sania doing here? ;)

http://yogesh.bizhat.com/others/sm/zasm%20(21).jpg

The most interesting point about these pictures is the head position. Federer keeps his head still and eyes on the ball almost upto, and perhaps even after the point of contact with the ball. Its not until halfway through the follow-through that he actually lifts his head.
Sania is very similiar, and you can see it in these pics. Absoutely erect back, head still eyes on the ball uptil the point of contact. She watches the ball after it leaves the racquet through her peripheral vision so there isn't too much movement or instability of the head, which of course would mess up the vertical axis. Watch her very closely, and you'll see her snap her head forward only halfway through the follow-through. A lot of players, from davenport, clijsters, serena, to sampras and agassi himself turn to face the net before the ball even makes contact with the racquet. Juan Carlos Ferrero is another player with exaggerated stillness like Federer, although I don't know how aware he is of the point of contact.
Actually you should try it yourself and you'll see that your accuracy improves by keeping your head still, and eye on the ball. I find it impossible to watch the ball at point of contact, as my hand-eye co-ordination isn't great, but delaying it as long as possible has improved my accuracy a bit. This picture you posted illustrates the point beautifully. Her head is still facing the point of contact rather than the trajectory of the ball, even though she is halfway into the follow-through:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060116/sp3.jpg
thats really good observation..I will try this with my forehand too..I also saw some JHHs pictures and it looks similar too...

mirzalover
Apr 21st, 2006, 09:34 PM
I was trying to figure out why her head was like that in alot of her pictures so thanks for figuring it out

tennisrox
Apr 22nd, 2006, 01:36 AM
thats really good observation..I will try this with my forehand too..I also saw some JHHs pictures and it looks similar too...

Absolutely correct. I forgot to mention her. Another one is Richard Gasquet. His backhand is just exquisite, and his head position is very similiar to Federer on the backhand.

tennisrox
Aug 25th, 2006, 07:02 AM
Ok forget the stuff about the stillness of the head. Thats important, but it is not unique to him and its only a very small part of what makes Roger federer the player he is today. What makes one player a genius and another just a champion? I think I may have the answer. This is going to be a long post, but bear with me. Its worth it.

A month ago I made a post about how my tennis had improved beyond belief through meditation. I have been practising meditation for two years now. It started out as a way to kick my smoking habit ( :o ) , but I never realised just how powerful it is. Two months ago I had my first glimpse of the immense powers of the mind. I won't tell you what happened because it'll sound crazy, and I have plenty more crazy stuff to tell you anyway. Let me tell you, every one of us uses less than ten percent of our brains. The other 90% is capable of things you could never imagine.

Two weeks ago something incredible happened to me. I learned how to go into suspended animation. Its is a state in which the body shuts down completely. It is in fact the state between life and death. I was wondering whether i'd fallen asleep, but it was so much more intense than that. I asked a freind of mine to keep an eye on me to see what exactly I was doing. He said I stopped breathing completely and I stayed like that for 14 minutes. He even threw a glass of water over me b/c he thought I'd die if I didn't breath. I was completely oblivious, and i'm still very much alive. Suspended animation is the most intense form of meditation that the brain is capable of (think about it. 14 minutes without air). There are very few people in the world who have experienced it. Even many people who teach mediation haven't experienced it. I was very lucky.
This is the incredible part: ever since that day I have been able to hit Sania's forehand. Not merely a shot similiar to it, but the exact same shot! From the wrist-snap to the posture, to the timing, to the incredible power, to the stillness of the head everything is identical. I have a single handed backhand which used to be a pretty poor shot. Not any more. It is now almost identical to Roger Federer's backhand, but I think the timing of the shot is a little better than his. It is what his backhand could have been had he been gifted with the perfect backhand instead of the forehand. My slice backhand, and posture is very similiar too. Like him I hold my head still, back straight at all times, and my balance is perfect. And its very true. Add topspin and Sania's forehand turns into Federer's. Hit the ball late, and it turns into Steffi's. I have to say that having hit both, sania's forehand is actually slightly better than steffi's.

tennisrox
Aug 25th, 2006, 07:06 AM
So what does it all mean? What it means is that when it comes to hitting a tennis-ball Sania and roger have the most intense form of concentration that the brain is capable of, and that is why Federer is considered technically the greatest talent the game has ever seen. From the concentration comes the timing, the perfect muscular co-ordination, the perfect posture, and from all that comes the wrist-snap that sets him apart from the tour.

There are plenty of players who time the ball very well (Justine, Baghy, agassi etc.), so what sets Roger apart? Roger is not merely a good timer of the ball, his timing is absolute perfection (i'll say it because i've experienced what it feels like to time the ball like him). What is the difference between his level of concentration and agassi's?
To understand that we have to go back to the photographs I posted.
The first part of meditation is about learning to empty your mind of thought and focus on a single object. I learned using a candle. Even this part is very difficult. Most people take a couple of years to learn how to focus on a single thing for a even few minutes. Invariably you'll find yourself frowning with the effort of focusing on one thing and one thing only. This is what top players have the ability to do. They have the ability to focus only on the ball and the shot they are going to play, and that is why they are so good at hitting the ball. Most of them from Steffi, to agassi to Sampras focus on a single thing, and the effort shows on their face.

What do you notice about Federer? This is strange part. Federer's face, and sania's are almost expressionless. For them, hitting the ball is effortless.
The most advanced form of meditation is about learning to focus on absolutely nothing. Its is that absolute blankness inside us that you all experience in the few moments before you fall asleep (and thats why sleep is so relaxing). In advanced meditation you can hold on to it without falling asleep, and it is much more intense. When I first started to hold onto the blankness (this is where the expression 'as black as death' comes from), I noticed that my face started to change. I felt as if my skin was being stretched and pulled. I realised that for the first time in my life my facial muscles were completely relaxed. All the creases have disappeared, and now my face is always expressionless because I've learned to stay thoughtless even with my eyes open (trust me, this stuff works better than Botox!). In the last month I have seen only 3 people with an expressionless face because as I said, all of us just think too much to ever tap into our potential.This is what separates genius from the rest of us.

The most intense form of mediation is about losing yourself in that blankness (suspended animation) so that the concious brain ceases to exist for a few minutes. When you do that you can start to tap into the most advanced centres of the brain. And that is how I learned to play like Federer. Federer doesn't play with his concious brain. He plays tennis using the most advanced parts of his subconcious brain. He was gifted with the ability to focus on the blankness inside him when he hits the ball, and thats how he can do things that no-one else can. The purest form of concentration is so intense that it is completely effortless, and that is why sania and federer's faces are almost expressionless. Having hit sania's forehand (and her double-handed backhand is a killer too. I started hitting some unbelievable angles, but I prefer a one-hander), I can tell you that the shot is completely effortless. The kind of power you can generate from just perfect timing is simply unbelievable. The difference in timing between Federer's forehand and sampras is just a thousanth of a second. It is that level of concentration that separates genius from mere champions.
I think I also understand why sania can't seem to win matches anymore, and why federer spent his youth as a headcase. Its incredibly difficult to focus on nothing for any length of time. She improves her attention span through practice. Practice is a very primitive form of meditation because you focus on your work during practice. Through actual meditation you can improve your attention span infinitely faster, and learn new shots at record-breaking pace. In two weeks I have learned to hit some of the shots that it took Federer a decade to learn. Its just that simple when you stop thinking.

This post may sound insane, but I promise that every word I have typed is the gospel truth. I am not exaggerating in any way. Everyone on the planet has a Federer, or a Ronaldinho inside their heads.

saniarox
Aug 25th, 2006, 07:34 AM
tennisrox,

this is one of the best and most inspiring posts i've read in a while. thanks.

actually, yesterday, there was one tennisweek interview with sania in which she touched the same topic. she almost reached the same truth u were talking about but just missed it. :-)

Tennis Week: Have you been doing anything in terms of mental training?

Sania Mirza: Well, I'm not a yoga person. I've been told to try yoga. I just can't get myself to do yoga. I pray four or five times a day so it's about 10 minutes of total concentration God during those prayers so I really think that helps me. a lot with my game also because when you're trying to focus only on God, you're trying to get everything else out of your head and just have that single focus. Trust me, it's very hard to do that four or five times a day. I mean, it's hard enough to do it once a day, but four or five times a day to just switch off the world and focus everything on God is difficult to do and I do try to do that four or five times a day. I think that's one of the reasons yoga is not part of my routine and I feel this is better because I am actually being constructive, but in yoga I'm just going blank.

Kunal
Aug 25th, 2006, 08:27 AM
its exciting to hear that, but i dont know if it will ever come true to be realized

i would love for her to achieve half of that much

Mightymirza
Aug 25th, 2006, 01:20 PM
well thats really a fascinating read!! Sania definately has a lot of problems with the concentration level you mentioned..But also its much harder for sania as shes veryy temperamental..Shes veryy short tempered and hates it when she misses a shot maybe causing more distraction for herself!!

Anyways for those who r interested I saw her matches (esp part of yesterdays) and this is the exact type of player sania hates(Lino)..It would be a bigg step if she wins this match!! This player just mixes up everything in the world and trying that sania is well 10 meters behind baseline and sania has responded well to it..Esp those low slices,sania has no problems hitting short angles with those..(I saw her practicing with her coach with her coach giving her sliced BHs to her BH a lott of times!)Anyways hope she wins this one again..The weather looks grim again..Maybe more stupid rain

tennisrox
Aug 25th, 2006, 02:09 PM
well thats really a fascinating read!! Sania definately has a lot of problems with the concentration level you mentioned..But also its much harder for sania as shes veryy temperamental..Shes veryy short tempered and hates it when she misses a shot maybe causing more distraction for herself!!


Federer had a terrible temper when he was younger. In fact his parents were so embarassed by his behaviour they refused to watch his matches until he sorted himself out.
About Sania's temper, she has always had a short fuse, but I do think she's worse this year because she's being forced to curb her bashing. The thing is sania's temperament is a little unusual. She isn't like Marat who is ruled by his emotions. She blows her top, feels better, forgets it and gets on with the game. I actually think its good for her to let it out once in a while. When you keep your emotions locked up and let it fester you drive yourself crazy. She may never be as self-contained as federer, as she is much more emotional, but she doesn't let her emotions rule her. She is however ice cool under pressure, which is when it really counts.

This brings us to the part that is driving everyone crazy: if she is indeed a talent in the class of King Fed and i'm positive she is, why is she the wildest, most indisciplined waste of talent on the wtatour? I have the answer to that too.
The day I realised that I could hit a 100mph forehand, I couldn't wait to get out on the court and try it out. It wasn't as easy as I thought. It is very difficult to hit a ball with such immense power and keep it in the court without topspin. I am not fearless like sania. I am a complete wimp in tennis terms. I was holding myself back, playing conservatively so I wouldn't hit the ball out by miles and look like a moron. The wonderful forehand, and the federer-esque backhand completely deserted me. I couldn't time the ball at all, and I was even worse that I used to be. I couldn't fathom what had happened. When I was practising against the wall I could hit harder that I could believe (I even broke a small plastic swicthboard that would take an incredible amount of power to shatter). The key to sania's power is her fearlessness. She can hit it that hard, and hit insane shots because she's never afraid to hit the ball out and look like a fool (and quite a few people are under the grossly mistaken impression that she is not a smart player). So the next day I stopped worrying, and let rip. The next few days, I hit the ball out by miles, looked like a moron, and let it pass. Within a few days those shots had started to land in. This is how sania's game developed, and this is how her mind works (or rather doesn't ;) ). If she tried to curb her bashing instincts she wouldn't be able to do anything right, and the amazing groundies would disappear. I think that is what has happened to her this year. She has to develop patience, variety, and learn when to go for it, but everything has to be done through experimenting during practice. During a match, no matter what the situation, if she feels like bashing the ball she should go ahead and do it. It will take a while, but it will work in time. Will an instinctive power-hitter like her ever incorporate finesse? I think she will, because she's not afraid to try anything. I used to hate volleying because I have (had ;) ) pathetic hand-eye co-ordination, but over the last couple of weeks I used a different method to develop net instincts (thoughtlesness), and i'm improving. I'll see how it works, and i'll share it with you, because I think this technique might work for her too. She can if she wants develop, and in fact re-invent any shot in the book. She is that kind of talent. But for now, the instinct to bash must be given a free rein ;) . I doubt she will stagnate as a basher, because at this point, luckily its not enough for her to win. She is one of the few players out their with the timing to really develop all the shots. Most players today, because of coaching methods geared towards developing the concious brain simply don't have the timing to do so. Hopefully she doesn't waste that gift.

tennisrox
Aug 25th, 2006, 02:43 PM
Tennis Week: Have you been doing anything in terms of mental training?
Sania Mirza: Well, I'm not a yoga person. I've been told to try yoga. I just can't get myself to do yoga. I pray four or five times a day so it's about 10 minutes of total concentration God during those prayers so I really think that helps me. a lot with my game also because when you're trying to focus only on God, you're trying to get everything else out of your head and just have that single focus. Trust me, it's very hard to do that four or five times a day. I mean, it's hard enough to do it once a day, but four or five times a day to just switch off the world and focus everything on God is difficult to do and I do try to do that four or five times a day. I think that's one of the reasons yoga is not part of my routine and I feel this is better because I am actually being constructive, but in yoga I'm just going blank.
I'm extremely impressed by her answer. This is an incredibly mature answer for a 19 year old to give. Most people never realise this even at 50(ahem fatwa-declaring imams, messengers of god :o ). Prayer in its true form is meditation. Most people have no clue how to pray, or even why they are praying(which is why everyone seems to hate each other :rolleyes: ). She focuses on god. I used to focus on a candle. Now I focus on nothing. She is only a step away from doing what I did. If she can take that step, the rest of the tour is in deep shit, but she may not even need to take that step. :eek:

Its funny she should say this, because I actually started out with the exact same attitude as sania. A friend of mine reccomended yoga as a way to get me to quit. I was too lazy to try, so I opted for meditation. Mediatation is a step up from yoga. In Yoga you concentrate on a set of ecxercises, so the mind has something concrete to focus on, and doesn't wander. In meditation you have to focus with nothing to keep the mind busy. It requires even better concentration. Sania has gotten things the wrong way around, but she's got the gist right. She's past the stage of yoga.

genius
Aug 25th, 2006, 03:57 PM
This post may sound insane, but I promise that every word I have typed is the gospel truth. I am not exaggerating in any way. Everyone on the planet has a Federer, or a Ronaldinho inside their heads.

You are losing it a little bit in recent months. Pls take control of yourself.

Maybe meditation does have its plusses with amazing levels of concentration and i can certainly buy that. But to talk about that seperating the genius from the mortal i am certain is an hyperbole of unbelievable proportions.

Another thing is though i am totally nonmedical in expertise, i am aware in my few readings that research on brain has a LONG WAY to go. Your assertions regarding 90 percent and 10 % sounds rather outlandish and suspect considering the above situation. Can you give one expert reference reg the same?

The best thing is go on court and beat federer. Maybe i will believe you. I don't think its going to happen for the next millenium.

As for focussing on one thing, i can certainly say that passion and interest in the subject(apart from affinity/aptitude for the subject) plays a vital role.

saniarox
Aug 25th, 2006, 04:26 PM
actually, genius, i disagree with you here.
i am an indian and one of my friends in the US attended the art of living classes given by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. he noticed an immense difference in his health and life in just 1 month. what did they teach him ?

he said they thought him to learn to make his mind totally blank. for the first couple of weeks, he found it so tough. but he persisted until suddenly one day, it just happened. now he can do it more easily.

his performance at work simply shot up in the past few weeks. he said his colleagues were totally surprised with this sudden improvement.

there is a great book that talks exactly about what tennisrox experienced in his life. in fact, the book talks about experiences that make "tennisrox"'s experiences seem perfectly natural. the book is "the autobiography of a yogi" by sri Paramhansa Yogananda.

saniarox
Aug 25th, 2006, 04:30 PM
small correction to the above post.

it should be Sri Paramahansa Yogananda (not Paramhansa) who wrote two great books:

"the autobiography of yogi",
and "the second coming of Christ: the resurrection of the Christ within you"

Sorry, it's OT but i'll stop here.

saniarox
Aug 25th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Tennisrox,

here's another question from the same interview where she touches another aspect of what you mentioned (the ability to play with the subconcious mind instead of the concious):

Tennis Week: Did you always hit such a heavy, hard forehand? And if so is it because you had timing or were you a naturally strong girl even as a kid?

Sania Mirza: I was never a strong girl. I was naturally very small and petite. When I was younger, I was a tiny girl. They didn't even think I was gonna grow that much. I'm five-foot-seven and a half and they didn't think I would grow that tall. I think it was just timing, especially on my forehand. Interesting, I used to have a really Westernized grip. I mean, my grip now is semi-Western, but before it was like really, really almost (Alberto) Berasategui-like. I learned on clay, but the clay in India is very different. It's brown, orange-brown, but it is very fast, almost like a hard court and it's so much easier to slide on. It's like playing on a hard court, but you can slide on it. Thankfully, before I started the cow dung courts were going out (laughs). So I had this grip, but they wanted me to change it and everyone had their opinion. I got to this point where I am today where it is semi-western and I could not go any further because that is my natural shot. When you're eight you want to try different things to make it as perfect as you can. So I stopped at eight, but even at age nine they used to say I had one of the biggest forehands in the under-16s in the whole of India so today they say I have one of the biggest forehands on the WTA circuit so obviously people could see I had a big forehand even when I was nine. It just comes so natural and it comes so effortless it just seems like I can hit it as hard as I want when I'm relaxed. That's when the problem comes: when I try to hit it so hard that's when I make errors. It's like everything else: when you force it to much, you mess it up. So I have to be as natural as I can on that. I have this photographer in my room of myself hitting a forehand when I was seven. And I have the same photo from the Sharapova match at the U.S. Open last year and the style of my forehand in that photo looks exactly the same as the one I was hitting at age seven.

tennisrox
Aug 26th, 2006, 09:04 AM
You are losing it a little bit in recent months. Pls take control of yourself.
Maybe meditation does have its plusses with amazing levels of concentration and i can certainly buy that. But to talk about that seperating the genius from the mortal i am certain is an hyperbole of unbelievable proportions.

Another thing is though i am totally nonmedical in expertise, i am aware in my few readings that research on brain has a LONG WAY to go. Your assertions regarding 90 percent and 10 % sounds rather outlandish and suspect considering the above situation. Can you give one expert reference reg the same?

The best thing is go on court and beat federer. Maybe i will believe you. I don't think its going to happen for the next millenium.

Precisely. It has a LONG way to go. I'm sure you have never experienced a moment of thoughtlesness in your life, and having never experienced its immense power you think you know what is possible and what is not. Like anyone else who has never tapped into the power of his own mind, you dismiss what you can't understand. Science has not progressed to the stage where we have the expertise to understand the logic behind the workings of the mind. I was quite interested in psychiatry myself, but now I realise that the reason most psychiatric patients don't seem to get better is that psychiatrists have absolutely no clue how their subject matter works.
I do remember watching a programme about how electroencephalographic studies were used to map the brain, and it was found that the average human being uses less than 10% of our brains. What do you think the other 90% can do? Why are some people more gifted than others? It has been found that people who are gifted at certain things show higher levels of electrical activity in certain centres of the brain. Most of the brain has not even been mapped. We don't even know what most of the unused areas can do. In fact eeg studies were conducted on a yogi from india, and his readings went through the roof. They couldn't believe the results because he was using almost all of his brain.

The more we try to rationalise and find logic behind everything, the more we forget who we really are, and the less we tap into our own powers. I taught myself to meditate, and every experience that I have had, corresponds closely to what is written in the book that saniarox talks about. Strange coincidence don't you think? There is a science behind thoughtlessness. There are hundreds of books from the east, from Japan to China, and most of all India that talk about everything i've just spoken about. Mind control is the basis of martial arts.All this stuff has been known to us for thousands of years, we've just forgotten about it, we're so eager to rationalise that which we are not smart enough to understand. Do you have any explanation for how Nostradamus could predict events hundreds of years in the future?

Coming to my own case, how did I survive for 14 minutes without air? The brain suffers irreversible damage after just 3 minutes without air. Here I am, more alive than i've ever been in my life. After two months of work, I developed an amazing memory. I can read at an incredible pace, and recollect much more than I ever have. All this after 14 minutes without air. I should have died. What explanation do you have for this?

I said that what I managed to do is very rare. Anyone can meditate, but only upto the level where it has great benefits to health, concentration and energy. The reason most don't progress beyond that stage, is that they have too many mental blocks regarding what is possible and what is not. As long as you hold onto your emotions, you can never really free your mind of thought. People simply don't believe in their own abilities, and that is why they can't experience absolute blankness. It took an incredible effort of will for me to block out everything, including pain and the basic need for air, and focus on absolutely nothing. Like everyone else I could have believed that pain is an impassable obstacle and given up. I didn't. I gritted my teeth, and blocked it out, until it ceased to exist.
When you do that, you can indeed play like Federer. Besides, i've always been a very good musician ( I absolutely don't think when I pick up a guitar. The moment I start to think conciously about the notes, everything is a mess), but lately, my music has simply gone through the roof. Everyone I know is having a hard time believing it, but the evidence is right in front of their eyes. Whether or not you want to believe it is your own business. All I can say is that too much rationalisation deprives you of the opportunity to use everything you've always had.

tennisrox
Aug 26th, 2006, 09:29 AM
Tennisrox,

here's another question from the same interview where she touches another aspect of what you mentioned (the ability to play with the subconcious mind instead of the concious):

Tennis Week: Did you always hit such a heavy, hard forehand? And if so is it because you had timing or were you a naturally strong girl even as a kid?
Sania Mirza: I was never a strong girl. I was naturally very small and petite. When I was younger, I was a tiny girl. They didn't even think I was gonna grow that much. I'm five-foot-seven and a half and they didn't think I would grow that tall. I think it was just timing, especially on my forehand.
I learned on clay, but the clay in India is very different. It's brown, orange-brown, but it is very fast, almost like a hard court and it's so much easier to slide on. It's like playing on a hard court, but you can slide on it. So I stopped at eight, but even at age nine they used to say I had one of the biggest forehands in the under-16s in the whole of India so today they say I have one of the biggest forehands on the WTA circuit so obviously people could see I had a big forehand even when I was nine. It just comes so natural and it comes so effortless it just seems like I can hit it as hard as I want when I'm relaxed. That's when the problem comes: when I try to hit it so hard that's when I make errors. It's like everything else: when you force it to much, you mess it up. So I have to be as natural as I can on that. I have this photographer in my room of myself hitting a forehand when I was seven. And I have the same photo from the Sharapova match at the U.S. Open last year and the style of my forehand in that photo looks exactly the same as the one I was hitting at age seven.

Interesting stuff. Her forehand has never changed over the years. The same can't be said of her backhand, becuase in some of her old photographs the shot looks quite awkward, but now the balance of the shot is perfect.
This article also explains why she seems so uncomfortable moving on european red clay. I was wondering why she looked so hesitant.Theres another interesting point regarding sania's growth spurt. The funny thing is that larger amounts of growth hormone are released during meditation. ;)

I understand exactly how she feels when it comes to the errors. I have had the same experience in the last two weeks. The moment I start thinking or planning my shots, I can't time the ball at all. When i'm relaxed everything is effortless. Its like the way I feel when I play guitar. Her words more or less confirm what some of us have been saying for months now.
More than anyone, sania's game is played in her mind.

saniarox
Aug 26th, 2006, 06:45 PM
tennisrox,

i personally feel you are now open minded enough to read and appreciate the books "the autobiography of a yogi" by Sri Paramahansa Yogananda, and "living the himalayan masters" by Swami Rama.

if you get the time, and are interested, maybe you could try to read one of them.

also, i just had a question about your being able to stay without air for 14 min.
did you conciously think about not breathing ? or do you think that "not breathing" is just a by-product of keeping your mind blank for an extended period of time ?

Apoorv
Aug 26th, 2006, 07:22 PM
Hey saniarox i have read 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Sri Sri Paramahansa Yogananda. Infact my parents and sister are followers of him, i am too lazy to do meditation though. Its a good book and really inspires one to take on a spiritual path in life. i have an e copy of this on my comp.

tennisrox
Aug 27th, 2006, 05:44 AM
tennisrox,

i personally feel you are now open minded enough to read and appreciate the books "the autobiography of a yogi" by Sri Paramahansa Yogananda, and "living the himalayan masters" by Swami Rama.

if you get the time, and are interested, maybe you could try to read one of them.
I have already read 'the autobiography of a Yogi'. I told you that something unusual happened to me two months ago while meditating. I was a little worried at first, because I didn't how such a thing was possible. I spoke to a friend of mine who has been into this stuff for a few years. He said there was nothing to worry about, and he told me to read that book, and a book on zen meditation.
BTW everything that i've spoken about here is encompassed by Deepak Chopra's Seven spiritual Laws of success. Law no 1:The law of infinite potentiality ie creativity comes from union with pure conciousness. ;)

also, i just had a question about your being able to stay without air for 14 min.
did you conciously think about not breathing ? or do you think that "not breathing" is just a by-product of keeping your mind blank for an extended period of time ?
In the beginning I did conciously try to stop breathing when I realised that my respiratory rate had slowed to around 4 breaths per minute. I couldn't keep it up. I stopped trying, and one day it just happened.
Meditation is basically about focusing on the present. Most of us find it difficult to focus because we are always thinking about past events and the future, but we rarely focus on the present. When your concentration becomes so intense that you live each second, your metabolism just shuts down completely, and you stop needing even air. The first time I was out for 10 minutes, and when I came out of it, I was barely aware of time having passed. Its much more intense than sleep and much more refreshing. I meditate using a cd of Gregorian chants. The only reason I knew I was even out for a while, was that the cd was over.

genius
Sep 1st, 2006, 05:13 PM
[QUOTE=saniarox]actually, genius, i disagree with you here.
his performance at work simply shot up in the past few weeks. he said his colleagues were totally surprised with this sudden improvement.
[\QUOTE]

This has little to do with being a genius. That was not where i attacked conked arguments anyway.

your sania quote again is a clear misintrepretation on your part.the context in which she is saying is different than what you two are talking. for all you, know Sania may not even know what you are talking about.

Avoid the trap of superimposing your experiences/beliefs on others. Indivduals are different

genius
Sep 1st, 2006, 05:29 PM
All I can say is that too much rationalisation deprives you of the opportunity to use everything you've always had.

Sorry. I always found that facts and logic lead me as close to the truth as the info available to me. I have no reason to change my method.

You cannot expect me to believe weird claims.There are people claiming they have seen UFO's. why should i endorse such claims? tell me

I am open minded to anything but show me evidence and susbtantiation.It does not mean i can accept everything.

What i gather from this thread is you and saniarox are fascinated by the topic of meditation but are you careful enough not to take your interests and prejudices as fact? For example look at the way some of the Sania quotes have been made evidence of "a subconcious mind" though she at best had mentioned about prayers and natural ability. She has never remotely talked likw you or shakes .

A classic case of believing in something and twisting everything else to fit into that.but most others including federer or sania are far removed from your world.

genius
Sep 1st, 2006, 05:45 PM
Precisely. It has a LONG way to go. I'm sure you have never experienced a moment of thoughtlesness in your life, and having never experienced its immense power you think you know what is possible and what is not. .

Just think from my standpoint

1. Your record in the past of being loose in facts and often making your own assumptions/speculations a base for assertions. They are hardly substitute for hard facts or complete information. So does it look like the same thing is being continued in a different form here? do i have any reason to believe otherwise?

2. Your strategic insight. I felt i was better than you in this aspect than you though you can technically talk a lot more about tennis and my formal training in this sport is close to zip . So i don't trust the strategic significance of your observations. Infact I feel you some way to go.
This means while i can understand some of the dramatic improvements you atribute to meditation, i don't trust the tall claims like you have understood how geniuses work. That's too complex an issue for even great startegic minds.

AngelicSin
Jul 18th, 2007, 08:06 PM
That's really well observed tennisrox. She does have a phenomenal forehand and perhaps the likeness to that of federer's style is a primary reason as to why. The wrist position, balance etc. everything seems to just co-ordinate.

AngelicSin
Jul 18th, 2007, 08:08 PM
Oh and people, no need to argue. lol Okay, i'll just rather stay outta it.

tennisrox
May 17th, 2008, 06:17 AM
Hey ppl
Its been more than a year since I last posted on this forum. I haven't really watched much tennis lately (except for the recent beatings federer has taken. And I never miss his duels with Rafa!), but i've been playing tennis everyday, and i've learned more about myself, life, and the mind than I ever imagined I could from the simple act of hitting a ball.

Well I do believe I have finally unlocked Federer's secret, but Federer himself has fallen tantalisingly short of attaining absolute perfection as a tennis player. The secret is not in playing with his subconcious mind, as I said a year-and-a-half ago. You have to leave the subconcious way behind. In fact, funnily enough the only reason he can play as well as he can, is because of Mirka. Not that Mirka has anything to do with his shots, but his relationship with her is what enables him to access the state of mind that produces magic ie-not the mind at all, but spirit. He is truly god's gift to tennis. However, I believe that he may just lose that gift, because there is one thing that can block genius in the best of us, and that is the emotions of the ego. Federer's biggest weakness is his anger, and he never truly learned to control it, he just blocked it. Thats a very primitive method that most ppl use to control emotions, but such a state of mind can only be stabilised by a stable relationship.

This is where Sania Mirza is different. She is a player in the same mould as Roger federer, but she never blocked her emotions, and just lets them go on the court. That is what makes her truly special. If I deconstructed the exact nature of Sania's psyche we would be here for the next year, but suffice to say that she does not need an ordinary coach. What a coach teaches her on court will be of no use to her. The knowledge is already inside her. She is emotionally mature beyond her years, whatever her game may look like. Once she attains full emotional and physical maturity, the mental block that is hampering her serve will dissolve, and she will end up with one of the best serves in the game. What she truly needs is a friend who understands her and loves her unconditionally during this time, because it is a truly difficult time. All her current injuries are caused by trying to play logically on court. Logic, and tactics itself flow from the spirit once the emotions are controlled.

Only a spiritual master can teach you how to truly control your emotions, not a coach and not the current defenition of psychologist.
A spiritual master is not someone who can walk on fire, or turn sand into gold, but a person who understands and is capable of the deepest and most powerful form of unconditional love. I have begun to understand all this because I spent a year discovering myself, and my emotions. I helped people with emotional problems, and discovered the nature of human relationships, and the immense healing powers of unconditional and spiritual love (not conditional).
What is special about sania is that she is not merely religous, but already deeply spiritual which is highly unusual in a person of her age. She already has all the properties of a spiritual master, but not an understanding of her own abilities, for which she needs a teacher of the mind.

I do believe that sania will meet her teacher pretty soon, and that person need not necessarily be a coach. Her true teacher lies within, but sometimes you need someone to show you that, as I myself did. I do believe that she will overcome her basic fear of love which is the cause of the mental block (and i'm sure any good psychologist will find its because of something fairly obvious which must have happened in her childhood), and when that happens she will become the greatest player the game has ever seen. I truly mean that. Steffi, Roger, Pete all of them had the potential to attain the abilities that Sania will attain, but sania will be the first player to ever achieve full mental maturity because her role in this world extends far beyond the tennis court.

Two years from now you will all begin to understand the true nature of the inner potential that lies inside every human being. Can the existence of God be proven scientifically? You bet!
Is there a solution to human suffering? The secret has been lying dormant in India for four thousand years, used by the few wise men who have realised that the mind is no more than an illusion.

Mark the date and time of this prediction. One more thing: you wanna hit that ball like sania, all you have to do is live in the present moment!!

tennisrox
May 17th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Hey ppl
Its been more than a year since I last posted on this forum. I haven't really watched much tennis lately (except for the recent beatings federer has taken. And I never miss his duels with Rafa!), but i've been playing tennis everyday, and i've learned more about myself, life, and the mind than I ever imagined I could from the simple act of hitting a ball.

Well I do believe I have finally unlocked Federer's secret, but Federer himself has fallen tantalisingly short of attaining absolute perfection as a tennis player. The secret is not in playing with his subconcious mind, as I said a year-and-a-half ago. You have to leave the subconcious way behind. In fact, funnily enough the only reason he can play as well as he can, is because of Mirka. Not that Mirka has anything to do with his shots, but his relationship with her is what enables him to access the state of mind that produces magic ie-not the mind at all, but spirit. He is truly god's gift to tennis. However, I believe that he may just lose that gift, because there is one thing that can block genius in the best of us, and that is the emotions of the ego. Federer's biggest weakness is his anger, and he never truly learned to control it, he just blocked it. Thats a very primitive method that most ppl use to control emotions, but such a state of mind can only be stabilised by a stable relationship.

This is where Sania Mirza is different. She is a player in the same mould as Roger federer, but she never blocked her emotions, and just lets them go on the court. That is what makes her truly special. If I deconstructed the exact nature of Sania's psyche we would be here for the next year, but suffice to say that she does not need an ordinary coach. What a coach teaches her on court will be of no use to her. The knowledge is already inside her. She is emotionally mature beyond her years, whatever her game may look like. Once she attains full emotional and physical maturity, the mental block that is hampering her serve will dissolve, and she will end up with one of the best serves in the game. What she truly needs is a friend who understands her and loves her unconditionally during this time, because it is a truly difficult time. All her current injuries are caused by trying to play logically on court. Logic, and tactics itself flow from the spirit once the emotions are controlled.

Only a spiritual master can teach you how to truly control your emotions, not a coach and not the current defenition of psychologist.
A spiritual master is not someone who can walk on fire, or turn sand into gold, but a person who understands and is capable of the deepest and most powerful form of unconditional love. I have begun to understand all this because I spent a year discovering myself, and my emotions. I helped people with emotional problems, and discovered the nature of human relationships, and the immense healing powers of unconditional and spiritual love (not conditional).
What is special about sania is that she is not merely religous, but already deeply spiritual which is highly unusual in a person of her age. She already has all the properties of a spiritual master, but not an understanding of her own abilities, for which she needs a teacher of the mind.

I do believe that sania will meet her teacher pretty soon, and that person need not necessarily be a coach. Her true teacher lies within, but sometimes you need someone to show you that, as I myself did. I do believe that she will overcome her basic fear of love which is the cause of the mental block (and i'm sure any good psychologist will find its because of something fairly obvious which must have happened in her childhood), and when that happens she will become the greatest player the game has ever seen. I truly mean that. Steffi, Roger, Pete all of them had the potential to attain the abilities that Sania will attain, but sania will be the first player to ever achieve full mental maturity because her role in this world extends far beyond the tennis court.

Two years from now you will all begin to understand the true nature of the inner potential that lies inside every human being. Can the existence of God be proven scientifically? You bet!
Is there a solution to human suffering? The secret has been lying dormant in India for four thousand years, used by the few wise men who have realised that the mind is no more than an illusion.

Mark the date and time of this prediction. One more thing: you wanna hit that ball like sania, all you have to do is live in the present moment!!

genius
May 17th, 2008, 06:42 AM
I would like to welcome you. but Have you become a godman by now?

you may want to post your views.but you may want to consider where your audience lies and post wisely.

because if you are saying these things to the wrong audience, you are going to face ridicule again and will be risked seen as weird.

In this tennis forum, you are better off concentrating on tennis and leave the spiritual matters for similarly interested people elsewhere.

A few may be interested here but i don't think this is the right place either logically or practically.

shibi
May 17th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Welcome back tennisrox. Hope you are close to attaining Nirvana.