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View Full Version : the game may not have passed Martina by, but it sure did Seles and Capriati...


Jennifer North
Mar 2nd, 2006, 11:46 AM
there should be little doubt that, even if fully healthy and fit, a Capriati's or Seles' return would be nowhere as successful as Martina's, a sign of the Swiss Miss more timeless skills and strategies maybe...

Andrew..
Mar 2nd, 2006, 11:58 AM
I'm not sure that the game has "passed them by". I think if Capriati and Seles were both fully fit and played a full schedule, they'd be solidly in the top 20. Anything above that, I'm not sure. It's not suprising that Martina is likely going to have a better comeback. Her results have always been better than their's (with the obvious exception of Seles pre-1993). Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati.

Carmen Mairena
Mar 2nd, 2006, 12:07 PM
I'm not sure that the game has "passed them by". I think if Capriati and Seles were both fully fit and played a full schedule, they'd be solidly in the top 20. Anything above that, I'm not sure. It's not suprising that Martina is likely going to have a better comeback. Her results have always been better than their's (with the obvious exception of Seles pre-1993). Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati.

I agree.

TeamUSA#1
Mar 2nd, 2006, 12:57 PM
It's not suprising that Martina is likely going to have a better comeback. Her results have always been better than their's (with the obvious exception of Seles pre-1993). Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati.


What :confused: No way did Martina have a better 2002 than Capriati

Martina 2002 34 wins 10 losses; 2 titles (Tokyo, and Sydney -Tier II); no other Finals playedlost to Jen the 1 time they played that year

Capriati 48-16 win vs. losses; 1 Grand Slam Title; 3 Finals and 5 SFs

LostInThe80s
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:00 PM
there should be little doubt that, even if fully healthy and fit, a Capriati's or Seles' return would be nowhere as successful as Martina's, a sign of the Swiss Miss more timeless skills and strategies maybe...

I completely disagree particularly in the case of Monica (though Jennifer's no slouch either). You don't have their respective careers by sheer luck. Monica's mental strength alone is the equivalent of 50 players combined.

LostGlory
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:02 PM
I completely disagree particularly in the case of Monica (though Jennifer's no slouch either). You don't have their respective careers by sheer luck. Monica's mental strength alone is the equivalent of 50 players combined.

Is that Lindsay in your avatar???

TeamUSA#1
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:04 PM
there should be little doubt that, even if fully healthy and fit, a Capriati's or Seles' return would be nowhere as successful as Martina's, a sign of the Swiss Miss more timeless skills and strategies maybe...


Completetly disagree........ Jennifer has been in the Top 10 since 2001 through to the early part of 2005.... a longer, consistent stretch than anyone else currently in the top 10. #s 6-10 could all easily be replaced by Jen in the current top 10. Jen has only been away from the game for 14 months and has already begun training for her return...

Monica would only return if she could compete at a high level...

LostInThe80s
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:05 PM
Is that Lindsay in your avatar???

Linds and Corina. :hearts:

LostGlory
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:08 PM
Linds and Corina. :hearts:

I know this is off topic but were they ever an item?

LostInThe80s
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:12 PM
I know this is off topic but were they ever an item?

Lol! No, they're just close and don't mind showing public affection. :)

Direwolf
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:22 PM
Completetly disagree........ Jennifer has been in the Top 10 since 2001 through to the early part of 2005.... a longer, consistent stretch than anyone else currently in the top 10. #s 6-10 could all easily be replaced by Jen in the current top 10. Jen has only been away from the game for 14 months and has already begun training for her return...

Monica would only return if she could compete at a high level...


Consistent, I guess shes kinda similar to Mauresmo and Dementieva. The only thing good bout her is that, unlike the Williams sisters she doesnt retire in a tournament that often.

BEEILOVEYA
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:24 PM
I think that Martina's comeback is unique. No one can have such an amazing comeback, because no one is such an incredible player as she is.

TonyP
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:26 PM
I think it is safe to say that a fully fit Monica or Jennifer would do quite well. Martina would not have done as well were she not injury free for now. But neither Jen nor Monica have outdated games any more than anyone else does. And both were fierce competitors, so if truly fit, both would win their share of matches.

SelesFan70
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:27 PM
I think that Martina's comeback is unique. No one can have such an amazing comeback, because no one is such an incredible player as she is.


The greatest comeback ever in the Summer 1995....comes to mind for me. :wavey:

jfk
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:29 PM
I'm not sure that the game has "passed them by". I think if Capriati and Seles were both fully fit and played a full schedule, they'd be solidly in the top 20. Anything above that, I'm not sure. It's not suprising that Martina is likely going to have a better comeback. Her results have always been better than their's (with the obvious exception of Seles pre-1993). Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll grant you the point on Seles though, since Hingis was still consistently beating her in their final years on tour.

BEEILOVEYA
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:35 PM
The greatest comeback ever when there were only 2 or 3 player who could win? Don't get me wrong i know what a great comeback was that. But it is different today, when you have almost 20 players who are able to win slams. That's why everyone is so in shock that Princess is doing so good. Because the game has IMPROVED.

dinhd82
Mar 2nd, 2006, 01:37 PM
I"m not sure how the game has passed them because the game that both of them played is still how the game is played today!!

Mother_Marjorie
Mar 2nd, 2006, 02:14 PM
there should be little doubt that, even if fully healthy and fit, a Capriati's or Seles' return would be nowhere as successful as Martina's, a sign of the Swiss Miss more timeless skills and strategies maybe...

Well, consider that Jennifer's original comeback included three grand slam titles, I think you are dead wrong. Its already been done. Hingis hasn't won a grand slam title since 1999 and will be lucky to ever win another.

DevilishAttitude
Mar 2nd, 2006, 02:47 PM
I'm not sure that the game has "passed them by". I think if Capriati and Seles were both fully fit and played a full schedule, they'd be solidly in the top 20. Anything above that, I'm not sure. It's not suprising that Martina is likely going to have a better comeback. Her results have always been better than their's (with the obvious exception of Seles pre-1993). Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati.

I think fan bias is in that post a lot. Capriati was much better than Hingis in 2001 and had a better 2002. If Martina had had a better 2002 than someone like Jen they would have been no retirement for 3 years.

Capriati was destroyed by the shoulder injury, Seles was already going slowly downwards since AO 2002. I mean she was losing to Petrova, Krasnoroutskaya and Koukalova and was losing sets to the likes of Barna, Casanova and Sugiyama in 2003. All good players but players Seles would beat easily before.

Seles won't come back, whatever she says, and I don't think Jen will either :sad:

Aquanetta
Mar 2nd, 2006, 02:48 PM
there should be little doubt that, even if fully healthy and fit, a Capriati's or Seles' return would be nowhere as successful as Martina's, a sign of the Swiss Miss more timeless skills and strategies maybe...

But a "healthy and fit" Seles and Cappy can still beat 95% of the players so your assertion holds no validity.

VivalaSeles
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:00 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll grant you the point on Seles though, since Hingis was still consistently beating her in their final years on tour.

Was she ? (Head-to-head 2001/2002) ;)

2001 Acura Classic (San Diego) Semifinal 6-3, 6-4 Monica Seles
2001 estyle.com Classic (Manhattan Beach) Semifinal 6-3, 1-6, 6-4 Monica Seles
2001 Hopman Cup (Perth) Final 7-5, 6-4 Martina Hingis
2002 Australian Open (Melbourne) Semifinal 4-6, 6-1, 6-4 Martina Hingis
2002 Pacific Life Open (Indian Wells) Semifinal 6-3, 6-2 Martina Hingis
2002 Pan Pacific Open (Tokyo) Final 7-6, 4-6, 6-3 Martina Hingis
2002 US Open 4th round 6-4, 6-2 Monica Seles

DannerCal
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:02 PM
Capriati is trying to get ready for the clay season - and already has a protected ranking (#10). Don't think she would be going to the trouble of training if she was all done ;).

selesbooz
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:02 PM
Capriati was destroyed by the shoulder injury, Seles was already going slowly downwards since AO 2002. I mean she was losing to Petrova, Krasnoroutskaya and Koukalova and was losing sets to the likes of Barna, Casanova and Sugiyama in 2003. All good players but players Seles would beat easily before.

Seles won't come back, whatever she says, and I don't think Jen will either :sad:[/QUOTE]

Well considering she trip and fell hurting herself in the process also having an bum foot caused those loses. If i remember correctly, did Petrova send Martina packing.
Plus at the FO when Monica lost, she knew that she was not going to win that match but still put up a fight and played the entired thing, she did pull out like a little bitch complaining about her injury :rolleyes: .
If that tramp Martina can make a come back, so can my girl Mon.

Brandon85
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:05 PM
we cant say anything about capriati or sele's comeback when the comebacks for them haven't even begun. jen or nmonica might come back and win a major as their first tournament you never know.

Kart
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:26 PM
Monica doesn't need to come back because she hasn't left any unanswered questions.

L.J.
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:33 PM
I think they can't be compared. If Monica and Jennifer were fully fit and were the same age as Martina, with many years of good tennis still ahead, I think they could both be in the top 5 against the current players. Let's face it, Monica is similar to Sharapova and Davenport and I they are both in the Top 5 so I think Monica would be a genuine chance at No.1 IF she was about 18-25, but I don't think so now. It is just natural she is ageing and unlikely to be as good again, however if she hadn't had this injury her game would still hold up well and she would still be in the Top 10 along the lines of Mary Pierce now.

candystripe
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:40 PM
I reackon they would do well

joeslim
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:43 PM
I think that Jennifer can make a successful comeback but for Monica her time is gone she's 32 now. I wish she could but she just can't :(

meyerpl
Mar 2nd, 2006, 03:48 PM
Regarding the title of this thread; that's what everybody said about Martina Hingis before she came back.

Andrew..
Mar 2nd, 2006, 04:42 PM
What :confused: No way did Martina have a better 2002 than Capriati

Martina 2002 34 wins 10 losses; 2 titles (Tokyo, and Sydney -Tier II); no other Finals playedlost to Jen the 1 time they played that year

Capriati 48-16 win vs. losses; 1 Grand Slam Title; 3 Finals and 5 SFs
I said "Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati." That means the last year any of them played on tour. Martina's 2002 was better than Capriati's 2004 and Seles' 2003. Obviously, Seles only played a third of that year, but you could even make a case that Martina's last year was better than Seles 2002.

Andrew..
Mar 2nd, 2006, 04:44 PM
I think fan bias is in that post a lot. Capriati was much better than Hingis in 2001 and had a better 2002. If Martina had had a better 2002 than someone like Jen they would have been no retirement for 3 years.

Capriati was destroyed by the shoulder injury, Seles was already going slowly downwards since AO 2002. I mean she was losing to Petrova, Krasnoroutskaya and Koukalova and was losing sets to the likes of Barna, Casanova and Sugiyama in 2003. All good players but players Seles would beat easily before.

Seles won't come back, whatever she says, and I don't think Jen will either :sad:
Sigh. Why can't people fucking read.

TeamUSA#1
Mar 2nd, 2006, 06:04 PM
I said "Even in Martina's last year before she retired, she had a stronger final year than Seles or Capriati." That means the last year any of them played on tour. Martina's 2002 was better than Capriati's 2004 and Seles' 2003. Obviously, Seles only played a third of that year, but you could even make a case that Martina's last year was better than Seles 2002.


You need to re-think your wording then in your original post because that is not how it read at all!

patricio
Mar 2nd, 2006, 06:07 PM
Completetly disagree........ Jennifer has been in the Top 10 since 2001 through to the early part of 2005.... a longer, consistent stretch than anyone else currently in the top 10. #s 6-10 could all easily be replaced by Jen in the current top 10. Jen has only been away from the game for 14 months and has already begun training for her return...

Monica would only return if she could compete at a high level...
Sorry if Petrova and Schnyder are top 10 players, Jennifer could be there easily too.

fammmmedspin
Mar 2nd, 2006, 06:14 PM
Jen was competitive with all the top ten when she left. I doubt if any of them are playing anybetter now.

pcrtennis
Mar 2nd, 2006, 06:19 PM
Seles wouldn't be as successful because she's into her thirties now...not because she is incpapble talent-wise...she's like 8 years older than Hingis... :rolleyes:

jenny161185
Mar 2nd, 2006, 07:06 PM
the game(which is mainly power play) has passed seles and capriati by? If they canc ome back at full fitness - they could be a force again

Mother_Marjorie
Mar 2nd, 2006, 07:09 PM
Monica doesn't need to come back because she hasn't left any unanswered questions.

Isn't that the truth. What Monica did before the age of 20, Martina Hingis will spend a career attempting to achieve.

butch
Mar 2nd, 2006, 07:17 PM
What :confused: No way did Martina have a better 2002 than Capriati

Martina 2002 34 wins 10 losses; 2 titles (Tokyo, and Sydney -Tier II); no other Finals playedlost to Jen the 1 time they played that year

Capriati 48-16 win vs. losses; 1 Grand Slam Title; 3 Finals and 5 SFs

Martina's winning percentage = 77%
Capriati's = 75%

just for the record

DevilishAttitude
Mar 2nd, 2006, 09:19 PM
Capriati is trying to get ready for the clay season - and already has a protected ranking (#10). Don't think she would be going to the trouble of training if she was all done ;).

She's trying to get ready for the FO which is not exactly the clay season. The protected ranking doesn't mean much and she's form what I've heard hasn't hit a ball for over a year.

I know I'm being negative but my hope has gone :sad: :sad: :sad:

Capriati was destroyed by the shoulder injury, Seles was already going slowly downwards since AO 2002. I mean she was losing to Petrova, Krasnoroutskaya and Koukalova and was losing sets to the likes of Barna, Casanova and Sugiyama in 2003. All good players but players Seles would beat easily before.

Seles won't come back, whatever she says, and I don't think Jen will either :sad:

Well considering she trip and fell hurting herself in the process also having an bum foot caused those loses. If i remember correctly, did Petrova send Martina packing.
Plus at the FO when Monica lost, she knew that she was not going to win that match but still put up a fight and played the entired thing, she did pull out like a little bitch complaining about her injury :rolleyes: .
If that tramp Martina can make a come back, so can my girl Mon.

Dementieva sent Martina packing. If Monica played even though she knew she would lose, that's a little :retard:

Martina and Monica are much different players and circumstances. Martina is at perfect age, Monica is not, Martina's game is still a threat, Monica's probably wouldn't

Sigh. Why can't people fucking read.

Why couldn't you have made your statement CLEAR. Martina's final year was stronger than Seles and Capriati sounds like her 2002 was stronger than there's. I can see where your coming from, but you didn't make it obvious.

TonyP
Mar 2nd, 2006, 09:28 PM
selesbooz, you are way out of line, especially when talking about Martina. She and Monica have been friends ever since Martina came on the tour. I can't believe Monica would in any way endorse your comments.

switz
Mar 2nd, 2006, 09:29 PM
You need to re-think your wording then in your original post because that is not how it read at all!

that's not how it read to posters with little common sense ;)

vicky116_is_back
Mar 2nd, 2006, 10:35 PM
selesbooz, you are way out of line, especially when talking about Martina. She and Monica have been friends ever since Martina came on the tour. I can't believe Monica would in any way endorse your comments.

I agree with you Tony. those comments are totally uncalled for!