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PaulieM
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:33 PM
Davis walks his talk with gold in 1,000 meters
Cheek takes second; Hedrick fails to medal in quest for second gold

TURIN, Italy - Shani Davis knew what he was talking about.

Davis became the first black to win an individual gold medal in Winter Olympic history on Saturday, capturing the men’s 1,000-meter speedskating race. Joey Cheek made it a 1-2 American finish, adding a silver to his victory in the 500.

Erben Wennemars of the Netherlands captured the bronze.


Chad Hedrick, skating the weakest of his individual events, put up an early time that stood until Davis bested it in the 19th of 21 pairs with a time of 1 minute, 8.89 seconds.

Four other skaters passed Hedrick as well, leaving the Texan in sixth place — still an impressive showing considering he was skating the 1,000 for only the seventh time in his career.

Davis came under scrutiny from Hedrick for skipping the team pursuit — especially when the Hedrick-led squad was knocked out in the quarterfinals, doomed by a slow skater who might not have been on the ice if Davis was available.

But Davis, world record holder in the 1,000, wanted to focus on his signature event. It certainly paid off.

congrats to him! :yippee:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060218/060218_davis_vmed_10a.widec.jpg

James
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Congrats to Shani. A deserved winner. :worship:

ampers&
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:41 PM
woot. :yippee:

Rtael
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:41 PM
That white guy is bulging... :o

Scotso
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:42 PM
Good for him, but it would have been nice for him to skate for the US team and get us gold in pursuit. Not a good team player.

CrossCourt~Rally
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:43 PM
GO USA!!! :woohoo:

VeeDaQueen
Feb 18th, 2006, 05:43 PM
But Vonetta will always be THE first!! I love that girl!

moon
Feb 18th, 2006, 06:06 PM
But Vonetta will always be THE first!! I love that girl!

That's what I thinking. what about her?
I forget what she won for tho. Was it an individual event?

harloo
Feb 18th, 2006, 06:28 PM
:bounce: :bounce: Yes!! :D

timafi
Feb 18th, 2006, 07:24 PM
congrats buddy :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Marcell
Feb 18th, 2006, 07:36 PM
Good for him, but it would have been nice for him to skate for the US team and get us gold in pursuit. Not a good team player.

You obviously don't know the background on Shani Davis. I would encourage you to do a yahoo search search and see how the US Speed Skating Association treated him in the 2000 games and then you will see how team player is a two way streak. Things are so bad that he trains in Canada and not in the US.

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 18th, 2006, 07:51 PM
Good for him, but it would have been nice for him to skate for the US team and get us gold in pursuit. Not a good team player.

The 'team' part was just as much about Chad Hendrick than it was anything about team. Shani was right to skip it as the criticism has only been about him costing Chad the gold.

geoepee
Feb 18th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Respect! :worship: :worship: :worship:

Davis and Ohno are best friends....

Does anyone know if the following is true? I read it somewhere....

"Joey Cheek, the guy who donated all of his prize money from an earlier gold medal win refugees Darfur, finished second, collecting a silver medal and $15,000 more to donate.....

Another American skater, Chad Hedrick (Chad's the skater who won the first gold medal for US in speed skating this Olympics), was mad at Davis because Davis skipped out on an earlier relay event, leaving Hendrick, who was hoping to challenge Eric Heiden’s record of five golds in one Olympics, stuck with a slower skater, and ultimately doomed to lose in the quarterfinals. Someone asked Hedrick afterwards if he was happy for Shani Davis, and he said, “I’m happy for Joey.” ....

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 18th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Respect! :worship: :worship: :worship:

Davis and Ohno are best friends....

I love this.

Does anyone know if the following is true? I read it somewhere....

"Joey Cheek, the guy who donated all of his prize money from an earlier gold medal win refugees Darfur, finished second, collecting a silver medal and $15,000 more to donate.....

Yes, he's donating his money to an organization Olov Kos (sp) developed. And he'll visit to see just how his money is being used. And he was also happy for Shani :yeah:

Another American skater, Chad Hedrick (Chad's the skater who won the first gold medal for US in speed skating this Olympics), was mad at Davis because Davis skipped out on an earlier relay event, leaving Hendrick, who was hoping to challenge Eric Heiden’s record of five golds in one Olympics, stuck with a slower skater, and ultimately doomed to lose in the quarterfinals. Someone asked Hedrick afterwards if he was happy for Shani Davis, and he said, “I’m happy for Joey.” ....

Which is why I don't care for the 'team' crap being pushed Shani's way. Chad wanted to be the star and he wanted the gold for his legacy. He's spinning this to be about the team when it was about his individual stats. Shani didn't oblige and now Shani is the bad guy? Chad sucks.

darrinbaker00
Feb 18th, 2006, 08:02 PM
That's what I thinking. what about her?
I forget what she won for tho. Was it an individual event?
No, it was for the two-woman bobsled. It was still an historic accomplishment, though. ;)

A black man wins a gold medal in an individual sport, and people say he's not a team player. Could you imagine the comments if we ever win gold in the biathlon? "Those people get so much practice shooting each other, I'm surprised they haven't won this event sooner!" :rolleyes:

James
Feb 18th, 2006, 08:04 PM
This whole Hedrick-Davis is stirred up by the media. He said before he got tired of always having to answer questions about Shani. He also said everyone prepared for the Olympics in a different way. He wants to put the team's interest above his own. But he also stressed everyone should make up their own mind as to whether Shani is selfish.

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 18th, 2006, 08:53 PM
If Chad was tired about talking about Shani he should have stopped talking about him. Chad helped stir the media stuff by statements like he wouldn't beg anyone to participate, or that if Shani had been a part of the team it would have meant a sure gold and then by going and saying he's only happy for Joey -- this is one sided and largely created by Chad himself. He wanted five and didn't get it and he's angry that Shani didn't help him live up to the NBC hype.

tennislover
Feb 18th, 2006, 09:02 PM
:worship:

(a navrailova fan like me usually praises record breakers) ;)

harloo
Feb 18th, 2006, 09:07 PM
If Chad was tired about talking about Shani he should have stopped talking about him. Chad helped stir the media stuff by statements like he wouldn't beg anyone to participate, or that if Shani had been a part of the team it would have meant a sure gold and then by going and saying he's only happy for Joey -- this is one sided and largely created by Chad himself. He wanted five and didn't get it and he's angry that Shani didn't help him live up to the NBC hype.

Exactly because I've heard Chad speak freely about the Shani controversy to the media without a problem. He could of just said no comment if he was bothered by the line of questioning.

RVD
Feb 18th, 2006, 09:31 PM
Great achievement!! :worship:
Great picture!! :)
It's kewl when barriers like these are broken. :cool:

RVD
Feb 18th, 2006, 09:40 PM
You obviously don't know the background on Shani Davis. I would encourage you to do a yahoo search search and see how the US Speed Skating Association treated him in the 2000 games and then you will see how team player is a two way streak. Things are so bad that he trains in Canada and not in the US.Whoa! Did not know this. Seems it's usually our fault when something doesn't go right. :shrug: But I'm not surprised. *sigh - shakes head*

Diesel
Feb 18th, 2006, 10:50 PM
Some nice reading: Davis provides America true Olympic hero (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11429930/)

Gonzo Hates Me!
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Yay!!! And so annoyed that people got in his face about not skating in the team competition. Ever heard the phrase "do you?" Sometimes you have to follow your heart and gut and do what's best for yourself instead of an *obligation* to other people. Why people have to make others feel guilty all the time for doing what their heart tells them to do? I dunno. Plus US woulda lost with or without him b/c that third skater fucked it up for us royally anyway

Gonzo Hates Me!
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:20 PM
Which is why I don't care for the 'team' crap being pushed Shani's way. Chad wanted to be the star and he wanted the gold for his legacy. He's spinning this to be about the team when it was about his individual stats. Shani didn't oblige and now Shani is the bad guy? Chad sucks.

:worship: :worship:

Chad Hedrick, Hendrick... whatever, just went down 8 notches in my respect level

PaulieM
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:22 PM
Some nice reading: Davis provides America true Olympic hero (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11429930/)
thanks for the link, that was a good read. :)

RVD
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:22 PM
Some nice reading: Davis provides America true Olympic hero (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11429930/) :worship: It was one of those head-scratching moments. How did anyone get sucked into this idea of five gold medals when one was in a race he knew he wasn’t going to win?

Hedrick didn’t explain that, because once he didn’t medal, all the five-medal talk was just that. Even if Davis had run the pursuit, Hedrick couldn’t have won five of any color. End of controversy. :worship:

hablo
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:26 PM
You obviously don't know the background on Shani Davis. I would encourage you to do a yahoo search search and see how the US Speed Skating Association treated him in the 2000 games and then you will see how team player is a two way streak. Things are so bad that he trains in Canada and not in the US.congrats to him :yeah:
I was wondering why he trained in Canada...interesting!

Gonzo Hates Me!
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Hedrick/Hendrick, whatever = selfish bitch, DIVO

@m@nd@
Feb 18th, 2006, 11:27 PM
congrats to davis :yeah:

Solitaire
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:31 AM
Congrats to Shani well done.


But isn't the whole Olympic thing about winning for ur country rather then urself? I understand Shani and his mother hava probs with US SSA but couldn't they put that aside for the Olympics? If he won't do team then why skate at all if things are so bad between Shani/Mother & US SSA? Hopefully both parties can find a common ground.

SelesFan70
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:37 AM
*paging Bryant Gumbel*

Infiniti2001
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:43 AM
*paging Bryant Gumbel*

Why?? The US has 2/200 blacks on the team, I don't think this is something to gloat about :rolleyes:

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:48 AM
Congrats to Shani well done.


But isn't the whole Olympic thing about winning for ur country rather then urself? I understand Shani and his mother hava probs with US SSA but couldn't they put that aside for the Olympics? If he won't do team then why skate at all if things are so bad between Shani/Mother & US SSA? Hopefully both parties can find a common ground.


Shani skates under the US flag, therefore he represents and skates for the US and won for the US today. He didn't skate under the Shani Davis flag.

drake3781
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:48 AM
He wanted five and didn't get it and he's angry that Shani didn't help him live up to the NBC hype.

This is the third time you have said this in this thread. Obviously you want people to know this fact or opinion of yours. Where does it come from? Do you have an inside track to Hendrick's motivations, or is this your opinion?

I can see it either way, but I would never speak publicly the worst way to perceive something, about someone, unless it was a known fact. It could at least as easily be that Hendrick values team competition and it has always been an expectation of his that the top 4 US athletes skate in the pursuit.

I'm not saying Hendrick is right in this matter, just that I don't have enough information to know. Where are you getting your inside factual information of developments of the past day-two?

If it were just you and Hendrick in a room together talking, would you say three times to him that he is selfish and just wanted something for himself, or would you ask him his motivations? Wouldn't you talk with him to understand where he is coming from? What gives you the right to express his opinion for him three times in a public forum and why are you so investe in it?

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:48 AM
His (Davis) interview on NBC was revolting. He is so offended with the whole world :rolleyes: Poor thing - everyone is after him :tears: :p

Solitaire
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:54 AM
Shani skates under the US flag, therefore he represents and skates for the US and won for the US today. He didn't skate under the Shani Davis flag.


Yea thanks for clearing that up.

selking
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:55 AM
he is such an asshole. His interview with that woman was ridicilous, hes just a jerk. too cocky

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:56 AM
Yea thanks for clearing that up.

:yeah: It was my pleasure :D

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:57 AM
he is such an asshole. His interview with that woman was ridicilous, hes just a jerk. too cocky


yeap

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:57 AM
It could at least as easily be that Hendrick values team competition and it has always been an expectation of his that the top 4 US athletes skate in the pursuit.




from my understanding of it, hendrick himself said earlier in the week that the pursuit event was the least important to him. i think it's easy for him to say he was thinking about the team, when helping the team helps further his goals at the same time. if participating in that event was going to risk his chances at his best event, i'm not so sure he'd be this upset.:shrug: his comments after davis' win today were very rude, so i don't exactly feel a lot of sympathy for him. if the team was really his priority that's fine but not everyone has to have the same priorities there's no need to make this the big deal that he's done so far. speedskating has always been a individual sport, and the olympics in general are about individual achievement, your country gets to share in the achievement, but these athletes spend their lives working towards single events, people need to get off their high horse and stop acting like they'd risk their dreams in a second like that, especially for people you've always had a less than cordial relationship with.

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:00 AM
His (Davis) interview on NBC was revolting. He is so offended with the whole world :rolleyes: Poor thing - everyone is after him :tears: :p
who are you to ridicule his experiences. the same people doing that interview with him for nbc are the same news team that had plenty of really nasty things to say about his decision just the other day. i wouldn't want to talk to them either. :shrug:

selking
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:04 AM
who are you to ridicule his experiences. the same people doing that interview with him for nbc are the same news team that had plenty of really nasty things to say about his decision just the other day. i wouldn't want to talk to them either. :shrug:

haha im sure thats why he was an asshole to the woman interviewer. hes just an asshole from this point of view.

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:04 AM
he is such an asshole. His interview with that woman was ridicilous, hes just a jerk. too cocky

I couldn't agree with you more. Hedrick is an ass, cocky too :yeah:

drake3781
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:04 AM
from my understanding of it, hendrick himself said earlier in the week that the pursuit event was the least important to him. i think it's easy for him to say he was thinking about the team, when helping the team helps further his goals at the same time. if participating in that event was going to risk his chances at his best event, i'm not so sure he'd be this upset.:shrug: his comments after davis' win today were very rude, so i don't exactly feel a lot of sympathy for him. if the team was really his priority that's fine but not everyone has to have the same priorities there's no need to make this the big deal that he's done so far. speedskating has always been a individual sport, and the olympics in general are about individual achievement, your country gets to share in the achievement, but these athletes spend their lives working towards single events, people need to get off their high horse and stop acting like they'd risk their dreams in a second like that, especially for people you've always had a less than cordial relationship with.
\

I don't disagree with you, but clearly there was a communicaion problem. Why? :confused:

If it were me, I would've wanted a team decsion to skate it or not, altogether. Maybe Hendrick was unable to pull out even though it would've been smarter choice for him too. Maybe he felt if he was obligated then the others should be obligated too.

And the way you express this is more fair and considered, not like the other poster I was answering who took three opportunites to cut down another person.

Tennis Fool
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:06 AM
I guess the medal ceremonies are not until tomorrow for Davis and Ohno...

drake3781
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:07 AM
who are you to ridicule his experiences. the same people doing that interview with him for nbc are the same news team that had plenty of really nasty things to say about his decision just the other day. i wouldn't want to talk to them either. :shrug:

Are you sure NBC had nasty things to say about his decision? I heard it brifely discussed but it seemed balanced and somewhat dispassionate, not nasty.

Do you have a quote or two from NBC commentators? I'd like to see what you mean, that NBC was nasty to Davis.

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:07 AM
who are you to ridicule his experiences. the same people doing that interview with him for nbc are the same news team that had plenty of really nasty things to say about his decision just the other day. i wouldn't want to talk to them either. :shrug:


it just looked VERY immature. the little kiddo needs to grow up and to learn how to handle deserved critisism.

ps. nothing "nasty" was said, except for questions to his ability to be a team player and THAT was well deserved.

SelesFan70
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:08 AM
Why?? The US has 2/200 blacks on the team, I don't think this is something to gloat about :rolleyes:

I'm not gloating...I'm just glad an American won. :wavey: :rolleyes: I couldn't care less about anything else. :angel:

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:11 AM
haha im sure thats why he was an asshole to the woman interviewer. hes just an asshole from this point of view.
uh ok. imo the media likes to dog on people and create unnecessary controversy without considering all points of view. they were really nasty to when talking about him the other night, totally ignoring that he did in fact have a point. but as soon as you win a medal for good old usa they want to talk and celebrate with you. he didn't pretend to be happy to talk with them, so what. interviews are supposed to get an insight into the athlete's feelings, they got it. he was happy with winning, and not with them. :shrug:

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:12 AM
I didn't care for his pathetic attempt of an interview after the race. Even the interviewer was like "are you mad?" as he was short and curt with his answers. He was just not very nice, and showed nothing to get the tv viewers/casual Olympic sport audience behind him or his sport.

He's clearly the best in his field, but he didn't do much at ALL to endear himself to his country.

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:16 AM
I didn't care for his pathetic attempt of an interview after the race. Even the interviewer was like "are you mad?" as he was short and curt with his answers. He was just not very nice, and showed nothing to get the tv viewers/casual Olympic sport audience behind him or his sport.

He's clearly the best in his field, but he didn't do much at ALL to endear himself to his country.
he was curt no doubt, was it nice? no. but from what i've read and seen he didn't come to torino to endear himself to anyone, he came to win a medal and he did. to each his own. :shrug:

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:17 AM
I didn't care for his pathetic attempt of an interview after the race. Even the interviewer was like "are you mad?" as he was short and curt with his answers. He was just not very nice, and showed nothing to get the tv viewers/casual Olympic sport audience behind him or his sport.

He's clearly the best in his field, but he didn't do much at ALL to endear himself to his country.

I think the question is why would he have to? Shouldn't being the first to do something be enough to endear him to his country? :confused:

Tennis Fool
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:17 AM
Are you sure NBC had nasty things to say about his decision? I heard it brifely discussed but it seemed balanced and somewhat dispassionate, not nasty.

Do you have a quote or two from NBC commentators? I'd like to see what you mean, that NBC was nasty to Davis.
I think NBC's coverage was pretty biased too. The network has been losing eyeballs because of lack of stars and thrilling controversies so it wants to stir something out of thin air.

When showing Shani preparing to race the first thing NBC brought up was how he didn't join the relay and cost US the gold. NBC were also upset that he hasn't been talking with the reporters, you know, because you are supposed to talk with reporters. Not talking with reporters=villian, even though doing so can be dicey if you don't live up to expectations (ie Miller, Kwan, Ohno, etc).

Joey Cheek, on the other hand, has been the Hero for winning two medals and giving away his prize money. Of course, NBC left the Olympics tonight on that note and how you can log onto his website and help. (I roll my eyes at this. Just call me "Dr. House".)

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:18 AM
He's clearly the best in his field, but he didn't do much at ALL to endear himself to his country.

To be fair to Shani I ask why he would want to endear himself to people who he's heard call him unpatriotic, not a team player and some who've gone to the extent to call him the N-word? Shani isn't without his fans and I have become a new fan since the Games of his and I'm sure there are others like me who are on his side.

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:19 AM
he was curt no doubt, was it nice? no. but from what i've read and seen he didn't come to torino to endear himself to anyone, he came to win a medal and he did. to each his own. :shrug:
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he won. He's clearly the best. But for the casual long-track skating fan, like me... he didn't win the heart or respect of his country/tv viewing audience. I didn't expect him to be bouncing and stuff... just maybe a smile and a polite answer in the interview where most of America will get to know him as a Gold Medal winner. I feel bad that he's clearly trouble with something.

drake3781
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:19 AM
I didn't care for his pathetic attempt of an interview after the race. Even the interviewer was like "are you mad?" as he was short and curt with his answers. He was just not very nice, and showed nothing to get the tv viewers/casual Olympic sport audience behind him or his sport.

He's clearly the best in his field, but he didn't do much at ALL to endear himself to his country.


Agree. He should've skipped the interview.... that would've been fine. But to do it that was was wrong. I wonder if he was forced to do it? Seemed that way.

Although I can say myself that at times I have been so overcome with emotions including anger that I truly cannot speak to someone, but have been unable to get out of the situation and been forced to continue together.... so I acted the same way. So I understand, if he was forced to do the interview.

I think NBC should've omitted Hendrick's comment at the end of the race... now that was trying to stir up controversy and it was unnecessarily ugly. They justify it by saying this will be important in the next race where the two skate together. It's pandering and if the athletes are gonna act like schoolkids the broadcasters don't have to be at the same level.

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:20 AM
No, it was for the two-woman bobsled. It was still an historic accomplishment, though. ;)



She was sooo cute when she won....on the medal stand! :worship:

:sad: I missed Shani's win...

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:21 AM
I think the question is why would he have to? Shouldn't being the first to do something be enough to endear him to his country? :confused:
Well it should be... but it would better his cause if he was at least lukewarm. I don't think his casual, pedestrian-like interview will make people remember him for his results. Most may be reticent to remember him as the almost impolite winner.

Feign something if you must, but don't be disrepectful, which I feel he was almost in his interview.

drake3781
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:21 AM
I think NBC's coverage was pretty biased too. The network has been losing eyeballs because of lack of stars and thrilling controversies so it wants to stir something out of thin air.

When showing Shani preparing to race the first thing NBC brought up was how he didn't join the relay and cost US the gold. NBC were also upset that he hasn't been talking with the reporters, you know, because you are supposed to talk with reporters. Not talking with reporters=villian, even though doing so can be dicey if you don't live up to expectations (ie Miller, Kwan, Ohno, etc).

Joey Cheek, on the other hand, has been the Hero for winning two medals and giving away his prize money. Of course, NBC left the Olympics tonight on that note and how you can log onto his website and help. (I roll my eyes at this. Just call me "Dr. House".)


I agree with everything, just not that it was nasty. It was brought up and statements from Davis and Hendrick were read. That was about it.

Tennis Fool
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:22 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he won. He's clearly the best. But for the casual long-track skating fan, like me... he didn't win the heart or respect of his country/tv viewing audience. I didn't expect him to be bouncing and stuff... just maybe a smile and a polite answer in the interview where most of America will get to know him as a Gold Medal winner. I feel bad that he's clearly trouble with something.
After the race he smiled and waved a stuff bear around to the audience. I think he's just been upset with NBC. He was relaxed in that profile they did of him before his skate. Maybe he'll show more emotion at the medal ceremony.

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:22 AM
Agree. He should've skipped the interview.... that would've been fine. But to do it that was was wrong. I wonder if he was forced to do it? Seemed that way.

Although I can say myself that at times I have been so overcome with emotions including anger that I truly cannot speak to someone, but have been unable to get out of the situation and been forced to continue together.... so I acted the same way. So I understand, if he was forced to do the interview.

I think NBC should've omitted Hendrick's comment at the end of the race... now that was trying to stir up controversy and it was unnecessarily ugly. They justify it by saying this will be important in the next race where the two skate together. It's pandering and if the athletes are gonna act like schoolkids the broadcasters don't have to be at the same level.
I agree - and taken completely OUT of context. Hedrick wasn't derogatory to Shani, however the media is sure trying to go there and make an intercountry episode for viewership of their head-to-head next race. It's a shame that NBC couldn't have at least provided some modicum of damage control for BOTH skaters....

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:24 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he won. He's clearly the best. But for the casual long-track skating fan, like me... he didn't win the heart or respect of his country/tv viewing audience. I didn't expect him to be bouncing and stuff... just maybe a smile and a polite answer in the interview where most of America will get to know him as a Gold Medal winner. I feel bad that he's clearly trouble with something.
he smiled and was more friendly in other interviews. so perhaps casual fans saw those. but he did say that the medal was for his fans who have been supporting him all along, i guess that's what mattered to him. :)

Tennis Fool
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:24 AM
I agree with everything, just not that it was nasty. It was brought up and statements from Davis and Hendrick were read. That was about it.
Why bring it up at all? Let Dan Jansen mention it before the start of the race, but don't do a whole pre-race profile on it. That's where I think many had a problem.

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:25 AM
She was sooo cute when she won....on the medal stand! :worship:


Cute... she was hot :hearts:

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:25 AM
he smiled and was more friendly in other interviews. so perhaps casual fans saw those. but he did say that the medal was for his fans who have been supporting him all along, i guess that's what mattered to him. :)
He sure is an AMAZING long-tracker! Was fun to watch, I hope he does well in his next race.

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:28 AM
Cute... she was hot :hearts:

ah, I guess so if you are into women. :o :lol:

harloo
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:29 AM
This is what I don't get? The same American media criticizes him and says some of the most nastiest things about his decision throughout the coverage and he is supposed to act like he is not offended?

The American public was already swayed that Shani was a traitor by the talking heads, and no amount of graciousness would of swayed their opinion. The only thing they see is someone that was unpatriotic and prevented their golden boy from winning his five gold medals.

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:30 AM
He sure is an AMAZING long-tracker! Was fun to watch, I hope he does well in his next race.
lol he looked pretty darn good. i'm not even a longtime fan of his but i just feel like he's been unfairly portrayed. so i'm in no way offended by your view of his interview. i thought he could have come off nicer for sure but i get where he was coming from. :)

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:30 AM
Harloo, u know we are always suppose to smile and be gracious through it all...no matter how we are treated. :shrug:

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:31 AM
This is what I don't get? The same American media criticizes him and says some of the most nastiest things about his decision throughout the coverage and he is supposed to act like he is not offended?

The American public was already swayed that Shani was a traitor by the talking heads, and no amount of graciousness would of swayed their opinion. The only thing they see is someone that was unpatriotic and prevented their golden boy from winning his five gold medals.

Shani didn't do the ole massa routine enough for some of them. But the great thing is that from what I'm reading it is limited to a select few and the rest recognize his achievement and his character.



“I like him as a person, I like him as a speedskater,” Wennemars said. “What the United States thinks about him doesn’t matter because Shani is the Olympic champion, so he is right.” :yeah:

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:32 AM
lol he looked pretty darn good. i'm not even a longtime fan of his but i just feel like he's been unfairly portrayed. so i'm in no way offended by your view of his interview. i thought he could have come off nicer for sure but i get where he was coming from. :)

Well it sounds like he was pretty angry and under that circumstance ... I bet he doesn't really care how he came off. :shrug:

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:33 AM
Well it sounds like he was pretty angry and under that circumstance ... I bet he doesn't really care how he came off. :shrug:
:secret: i agree, read my earlier post. :)

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:35 AM
He could have made his point much more effectively by speaking directly to the camera and his fans with excitement, but instead he looked like a petulant child. Whether or not his irritation was warranted, he could have handled it better. :shrug: Nobody's perfect, tho...

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:36 AM
ah, I guess so if you are into women. :o :lol:

:lol:

I'm looking forward to her repeating.

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:39 AM
for Gods sakes what so nasty was said about him? and was it really undeserved?

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:40 AM
for Gods sakes what so nasty was said about him? and was it really undeserved?

I guess the same could be said about what was so nasty about what he said? Can someone say exactly what he said that was so mean, petulant or rude?

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:41 AM
:lol:

I'm looking forward to her repeating.

that would be great! :yeah:

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:49 AM
I guess the same could be said about what was so nasty about what he said? Can someone say exactly what he said that was so mean, petulant or rude?

I don't think he was rude or mean, but petulant yes. immature. a little baby who didn;t get a favorite candy and is angry at the whole world.

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:52 AM
I guess the same could be said about what was so nasty about what he said? Can someone say exactly what he said that was so mean, petulant or rude?
It's what he didn't say. He acted as if he couldn't be bothered to even be there. The commentator was very nice and seemed genuinely exited. She asked about how he felt to make history and he uttered about 3 words. She then asked about his mom, again he could barely speak to her. Finally she said "Are you mad?", meaning upset, pissed, angry, since he wasn't even talking to her or looking at her. Then when he left, she was like "ummm,...." She didn't know what to say but you could tell she was thrown off and never expected a Gold Medal interview to go down like it did. Even the (idiot) anchormen or whatever they're called were like 'that's not a typically interview for someone who just won gold'. He just seemed very indifferent and like he was being completely bothered to even be asked anything.

It's a shame that it's put his efforts into a negative connotation, and that of course the media will/has jumped all over this to show an even more fractured USA longtrack team.

They wanted to create drama, and unfortunately Shani helped them do just that.

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:53 AM
I don't think he was rude or mean, but petulant yes. immature. a little baby who didn;t get a favorite candy and is angry at the whole world.

Why are people describing Hedrick to the letter? This is supposed to be about Shani's history making victory.

:)

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:53 AM
:lol:

I'm looking forward to her repeating.
:yeah: Me too!

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:54 AM
I don't think he was rude or mean, but petulant yes. immature. a little baby who didn;t get a favorite candy and is angry at the whole world.

and some people felt the media's coverage was biased, slanted toward the negative, inappropriate....it's called an opinion based on how you see things....no different in either situation.

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:55 AM
and some people felt the media's coverage was biased, slanted toward the negative, inappropriate....it's called an opinion based on how you see things....no different in either situation.
The media... ie NBC sure didn't do any of the athletes involved ANY favors. Why create a derisive environment. Isn't this the Olympics? I hate how they (NBC/mass media) try to create drama. Just let the athletes go and let us enjoy it.

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:58 AM
the last thing I'm going to say: in US (and you know it) media can make or brake anybody. Behaving like this does not help his cause or will add to his popularity.



PS. i could care less about Hedrick. I didn't care about either one of them. I was rooting for Joe. Too bad he couldn't get a second gold medal.

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:58 AM
I love the dimples
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/oly/athletes/torino2006/606864.jpg

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:59 AM
It's what he didn't say. He acted as if he couldn't be bothered to even be there. The commentator was very nice and seemed genuinely exited. She asked about how he felt to make history and he uttered about 3 words. She then asked about his mom, again he could barely speak to her. Finally she said "Are you mad?", meaning upset, pissed, angry, since he wasn't even talking to her or looking at her. Then when he left, she was like "ummm,...." She didn't know what to say but you could tell she was thrown off and never expected a Gold Medal interview to go down like it did. Even the (idiot) anchormen or whatever they're called were like 'that's not a typically interview for someone who just won gold'. He just seemed very indifferent and like he was being completely bothered to even be asked anything.

It's a shame that it's put his efforts into a negative connotation, and that of course the media will/has jumped all over this to show an even more fractured USA longtrack team.

They wanted to create drama, and unfortunately Shani helped them do just that.

So they question (talk about) his patriotism for a decision he made, give a team mate that questions his patriotism air time and then try to interview him like nothing happened? Yeah we won the gold! :lol:

Classic! :yeah:

I hope he wears a black glove during the medal ceramony.. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

now that would stir some shit.... :rolls:

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:59 AM
the last thing I'm going to say: in US (and you know it) media can make or brake anybody. Behaving like this does not help his cause or will add to his popularity.



PS. i could care less about Hedrick. I didn't care about either one of them. I was rooting for Joe. Too bad he couldn't get a second gold medal.
or his sport... they are all embassadors of their sport before themselves as athletes.

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM
The media... ie NBC sure didn't do any of the athletes involved ANY favors. Why create a derisive environment. Isn't this the Olympics? I hate how they (NBC/mass media) try to create drama. Just let the athletes go and let us enjoy it.

Maybe you hit the nail on the head of part of his anger?? ;)

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM
So they question (talk about) his patriotism for a decision he made, give a team mate that questions his patriotism air time and then try to interview him like nothing happened? Yeah we won the gold! :lol:

Classic! :yeah: I don't understand what you're saying here... sorry :o

I hope he wears a black glove during the medal ceramony.. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

now that would stir some shit.... :rolls:'cuz that's helpful and would for sure prove the negativity that the naysayers are spewing. ;)

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM
Why are people describing Hedrick to the letter? This is supposed to be about Shani's history making victory.

:)
:lol: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Diesel again.

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM
PS. i could care less about Hedrick. I didn't care about either one of them. I was rooting for Joe. Too bad he couldn't get a second gold medal.

Couldn't care less about Hedrick either but he started this mess and Shani finished it tonight.

Joey Cheeks is one of the best stories and athletes to come out of this Olympics. Donating his winning earnings to charity and children at that is awesome. It wasn't a matter of gold or silver for him because he was a winner either way and he's making sure others are too. Good stuff.

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:02 AM
and some people felt the media's coverage was biased, slanted toward the negative, inappropriate....it's called an opinion based on how you see things....no different in either situation.


:shrug: All I read is media questionning Davis's ability to be a team player, to care about team. These questions were very legitimate after his refusal to run pursuit and were confirmed by his statement.

What was so biased? beats me...

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:03 AM
or his sport... they are all embassadors of their sport before themselves as athletes.

controversy always add to the popularity of a sport...if ice skating can come out of the Tonya Harding incident more popular then this is nothing but a reason for new people to watch.

I don't see how this is/can/will do anything other than bring some attention to his sport and therefore more people will watch.

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:04 AM
:shrug: All I read is media questionning Davis's ability to be a team player, to care about team. These questions were very legitimate after his refusal to run pursuit and were confirmed by his statement.

What was so biased? beats me...

I think all you have to do is read what others have said was negative about the press and you'll have your answer but somehow I'm thinking those opinions are not good enough since you clearly don't agree with them. :shrug:

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:06 AM
I love the dimples
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/oly/athletes/torino2006/606864.jpg
:hearts:

AjdeNate!
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:07 AM
Maybe this is the only answer we'll ever need:

"I'm one of a kind," Davis said, fully aware of how much he stands out in the mostly white sport. "I'm a different type of person. I have a different charisma. A lot of people don't understand me."

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:08 AM
I don't understand what you're saying here... sorry :o

The media spreads negativity leading up to the race and after he wins it's all sweetness and light and then they are shocked when he won't fake the funk with them....Classic! :yeah:



'cuz that's helpful and would for sure prove the negativity that the naysayers are spewing. ;)

I've thought we've all figured out by now, It seems he doesn't give 2 shits what the naysayers are/will say. :lol:

but I'd love him forever if he did that. :hearts:

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:08 AM
:shrug: All I read is media questionning Davis's ability to be a team player, to care about team. These questions were very legitimate after his refusal to run pursuit and were confirmed by his statement.

What was so biased? beats me...
the fact that he offered a very clear explanation of why he didn't run pursuit and they acted like he didn't have a point at all.
And none of them had the pressure that was on Davis. He and his mother had kept up a running battle with the U.S. Speedskating Association for years, some of it going back to Salt Lake City in 2002 when he was a short-track specialist who was put on the team to skate in a relay event, then was never allowed to go on the track, not even in a preliminary heat.

He swore then he’d never take an opportunity from another skater to have an Olympic moment. That, he finally said Saturday, was why he didn’t skate the pursuit — because the team had brought skaters here for that purpose, and he wouldn’t take that chance away form them as it had been taken from him.
apparently he didn't see the point in running the event when they had already brought skaters there for that purpose and he wanted to be ready for his biggest event. sounds valid to me, and that was nowhere in their coverage the other night. :shrug: like it said it's easy for hendrick to say he cared about the team, the team doing well was in line with his individual goals and wouldn't risk his chances in his best event. in that situation i'd care about my goals, oops i mean the team too. if he didn't want to take someone else's spot you could say davis cared about the team, just not the teammates hendrick wanted him to care about:p

nbaker53
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:09 AM
Although this is great to hear, it's quite shocking for me that only now, in the year of 2006 is an African-American winning an individual gold medal. Does that not seem odd to anyone else?

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:09 AM
I love the dimples
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/oly/athletes/torino2006/606864.jpg

cute especially her reaction on the stand...she knew what her accomplish meant. :worship:

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:14 AM
Although this is great to hear, it's quite shocking for me that only now, in the year of 2006 is an African-American winning an individual gold medal. Does that not seem odd to anyone else?

not surprising to me...we don't really like cold weather and stuff plus things like skiing are expensive and is just not a traditional activity in many African-American homes. :lol:

Sam L
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:17 AM
So why was he acting all pissed off? It doesn't make sense.

You want a smiling, humble champion that you can reach out to. Not an arrogant, angry baboon.

What's up with this?

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:20 AM
So why was he acting all pissed off? It doesn't make sense.

You want a smiling, humble champion that you can reach out to. Not an arrogant, angry baboon.

What's up with this?

No that's what you want...

I prefer someone with a mind and personality of their own...also find it funny the person who started a thread about being angry all the time is having a problem with someone who is angry... :haha:

Sam L
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:23 AM
No that's what you want...

I prefer someone with a mind and personality of their own...also find it funny the person who started a thread about being angry all the time is having a problem with someone who is angry... :haha:
Winning an Olympic medal or other competition is special enough and I wouldn't be selfish enough to make it just about me me me. I would also think about my sport, my country and my fans and even if I didn't feel happy or felt angry (for whatever reason), I'll show otherwise. It's NOT just about you.

Oh yeah, he won a Gold medal, what are we supposed to do, stop everything we're doing and bow down? Please!

Diesel
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:26 AM
There are people who are happy for him. I'm part of that we, I may not be bowing down, but I'm a happy we :)

Some more of the gorgeous Vonetta:

http://espn.go.com/media/oly/2002/0223/photo/a_flowers_i.jpg

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/olympics_winter_2002/news/2002/02/21/day13/2.jpg

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:30 AM
Winning an Olympic medal or other competition is special enough and I wouldn't be selfish enough to make it just about me me me. I would also think about my sport, my country and my fans and even if I didn't feel happy or felt angry (for whatever reason), I'll show otherwise. It's NOT just about you.

Oh yeah, he won a Gold medal, what are we supposed to do, stop everything we're doing and bow down? Please!

So you say about the first part...as for the 2nd, who said anyone should bow down to him?

RVD
Feb 19th, 2006, 07:05 AM
His (Davis) interview on NBC was revolting. He is so offended with the whole world :rolleyes: Poor thing - everyone is after him :tears: :pExcuse me, but you sound like an ignorant little child whose candy just got swiped. Tell us all how you know what this young man went through? I've just finished reading about him, and also witnessed a TV interview his mother gave. People like you are why this young man and his mother don't talk...
Because regardless of what they say, people allow their ignorance to cloud reality. And as usual, you rise to the top.
Why am I not surprised. :rolleyes:
In retrospect, it seems you aren't the only child here. :lol:

RVD
Feb 19th, 2006, 07:36 AM
PaulieM, I wish I could give you 50 good reps because you are doing a lot to explain to people who have their eyes closed.
For anyone who watched this event, Shani made a few laps smiling and waving to the crowd. He picked up flowers thrown to him, and shook the hands of everyone who approached.
I find it very interesting that since he answered the question posed, but didn't shuck and jive, that he is rude. Yet no one says anything about his mother's comment in reference to the U.S. Olympic folks trying to intimidate them.

Why is it that something has to be posted and pointed out several times before people READ shit here. Diesel posted this once already, but I suppose some of the slower posters need the link BOLD and re-sized ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11429930/
:lol: :lol:

Personally, I can fully understand this young man's position, and feel that he did exactly what he was supposed to do; which was to directly answer the questions posed, say as little as possible, and leave. :cool:

geoepee
Feb 19th, 2006, 11:32 AM
Thanks for the article!
:hug:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060218/060218_davis3_hmed_2p.hmedium.jpg

brickhousesupporter
Feb 19th, 2006, 02:18 PM
Whey can't you people act right when you win something? :bolt:

GoDominique
Feb 19th, 2006, 02:57 PM
Harloo, u know we are always suppose to smile and be gracious through it all...no matter how we are treated. :shrug:
Crocketta at it again. :lol:

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:12 PM
I think what really blows me away is that Shani handled all the crap thrown at him, including that blowhard Hedrick, with aplomb. And then, in the easiest most straightforward PR moment of his life, the soft pitch gold medal interview (which unfortunately will be most people's only exposure to him), he decides to show his ass all over network television. Why bother giving the thoughtful, insightful press conferences that he did before and after the event, if you are going to act like a child when the bright lights are on you?

Maybe in the heat of the moment and adrenaline, he just lost his cool, which is understandable and very human. As I said, no one is perfect.

Or maybe, he really doesn't care what most people think of him, as has been asserted. But unlike some folks, I guess I'm just one of the many people that wishes he did care just a little bit.

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:20 PM
PaulieM, I wish I could give you 50 good reps because you are doing a lot to explain to people who have their eyes closed.
For anyone who watched this event, Shani made a few laps smiling and waving to the crowd. He picked up flowers thrown to him, and shook the hands of everyone who approached.
I find it very interesting that since he answered the question posed, but didn't shuck and jive, that he is rude. Yet no one says anything about his mother's comment in reference to the U.S. Olympic folks trying to intimidate them.

Why is it that something has to be posted and pointed out several times before people READ shit here. Diesel posted this once already, but I suppose some of the slower posters need the link BOLD and re-sized ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11429930/
:lol: :lol:

Personally, I can fully understand this young man's position, and feel that he did exactly what he was supposed to do; which was to directly answer the questions posed, say as little as possible, and leave. :cool:

Having read the article, and others, I respect what Shani has faced and dealt with. I get that. He is to be commended in many ways. But no amount of spin, or inflamatory words ("shuck and jive") can change the fact that he acted like an ass on national television.

Being unable to see any bad in a person is just as ridiculous as being unable to see any good in a person.

harloo
Feb 19th, 2006, 03:58 PM
I think what really blows me away is that Shani handled all the crap thrown at him, including that blowhard Hedrick, with aplomb. And then, in the easiest most straightforward PR moment of his life, the soft pitch gold medal interview (which unfortunately will be most people's only exposure to him), he decides to show his ass all over network television. Why bother giving the thoughtful, insightful press conferences that he did before and after the event, if you are going to act like a child when the bright lights are on you?

Maybe in the heat of the moment and adrenaline, he just lost his cool, which is understandable and very human. As I said, no one is perfect.

Or maybe, he really doesn't care what most people think of him, as has been asserted. But unlike some folks, I guess I'm just one of the many people that wishes he did care just a little bit.

For all the criticism that was thrown his way for not helping Chad win the team competition, I'm suprised that he didn't refuse to be interviewed after he won. The media made it seem like he was a traitor when that wasn't the case. And I guess you don't understand why Shani didn't "shuck and jive" to give the impression that everything was alright.

Shani has stated that he went to his website and saw AMERICANS wishing he would break his leg, hoping that he would fall, and calling him the N word left and right. After reading that and hearing all the mess from the commentators would you feel like "shucking and jiving" so the media can get their feel good story?

Enough said.;)

Shani had nothing but good things to say about Chad, but he couldn't even muster up a bit of class to congratulate the man on his gold medal performance? That's why I'm not buying any of the media hyped controversy. If Chad wasn't in the equation and seeking another gold for his trophy case noone would give a damn if Shani was on the team on not.
:o :D

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:01 PM
I think what really blows me away is that Shani handled all the crap thrown at him, including that blowhard Hedrick, with aplomb. And then, in the easiest most straightforward PR moment of his life, the soft pitch gold medal interview (which unfortunately will be most people's only exposure to him), he decides to show his ass all over network television. Why bother giving the thoughtful, insightful press conferences that he did before and after the event, if you are going to act like a child when the bright lights are on you?

Maybe in the heat of the moment and adrenaline, he just lost his cool, which is understandable and very human. As I said, no one is perfect.

Or maybe, he really doesn't care what most people think of him, as has been asserted. But unlike some folks, I guess I'm just one of the many people that wishes he did care just a little bit.

I don't see how what he did in the interview was any different than how he acted while waiting to see if he won the gold? When he won, he didn't get animated...he gave a brief smile. I don't see why just because he got in front of the camera he should've been any different?

Also, I don't see anyone in this thread talking about how Hendrick showed his ass on national television by not supporting his fellow American and clapping for him or being happy for him when he won? How come that won't linger in people's minds?

The funny thing was if the girl giving the interview had just let his answers stand as he gave them very little would've been thought of his interview. He answered every questioned asked. Are you happy? yes. What does it mean to be the first AA~~ It means alot, etc. Your mother~~She worked hard too. Are you Angry? ~ No (This is the useless question)

and at then end of the interview he gave her a genuine smile.

So I don't see what the big deal is...we don't know if someone pissed him off right before the interview or if the interviewer pissed him off right before? He didn't curse her, He didn't walk away from her, he answered the questions asked truthfully...he just didn't do it with the attitude or demeanor that some of you clearly expected of him but so what how is that even close to being a big deal?

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:08 PM
Having read the article, and others, I respect what Shani has faced and dealt with. I get that. He is to be commended in many ways. But no amount of spin, or inflamatory words ("shuck and jive") can change the fact that he acted like an ass on national television.

Being unable to see any bad in a person is just as ridiculous as being unable to see any good in a person.

did you notice the amount of air time given to Chad during Shani's personal story piece before he started his race? Did they spend that much time on Shani when they did Chad's? (legit ?? I didn't see Chad's)

and where has anyone said they don't see bad in Shani? Everyone knows that he was pissed off and was deliberately curt in his interview...the difference is some of us feel that if that was what he was feeling it was his right to be curt while others feel that he should've forgotten all and *pretended* for the camera.

the cat
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:24 PM
Congrats to Shani Davis on winning gold and becoming the first African American to win an individual gold medal in the Winter Olympics. :D I hope big mouth Bryant Gumble was watching this history being made. ;) But he was probably too busy playing golf or tennis. :rolleyes:

And it was a shame NBC's Melissa Stark ruined her interview with Davis after he won the gold medal. :( He was obviously short on words for whatever reasons. She needed to pull back a bit once his reticence to speak and show joy was obvious. And Stark should have shown respect to Davis by not mocking him at the end of the interview by scarcastically saying something like "you're obviously so happy" to Davis and then turning to the camera with a dumbfounded look on her face. :rolleyes: What a dumbass! :mad:

Yes Rockie I noticed how much NBC showed Chad Hedrick sitting in the crowd during Shani's race. Chad was stewing that Davis won gold and that he didn't medal. It's unfortunate that they don't get along. But that's life in the sportd world. They are having a great Winter Olympics and so is the United States speed skating team. I must say the athlete that has done the most to win me over has been Joey Cheek. He's going for gold on and off the ice. :)

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Congrats to Shani Davis on winning gold and becoming the first African American to win an individual gold medal in the Winter Olympics. :D I hope big mouth Bryant Gumble was watching this history being made. ;) But he was probably too busy playing golf or tennis. :rolleyes:

And it was a shame NBC's Melissa Stark ruined her interview with Davis after he won the gold medal. :( He was obviously short on words for whatever reasons. She needed to pull back a bit once his reticence to speak and show joy was obvious. And Stark should have shown respect to Davis by not mocking him at the end of the interview by scarcastically saying something like "you're obviously so happy" to Davis and then turning to the camera with a dumbfounded look on her face. :rolleyes: What a dumbass! :mad:

Yes Rockie I noticed how much NBC showed Chad Hendrick sitting in the crowd during Shani's race. Chad was stewing that Davis won gold and that he didn't medal. It's unfortunate that they don't get along. But that's life in the sportd world. They are having a great Winter Olympics and so is the United States speed skating team. I must say the athlete that has done the most to win me over has been Joey Cheek. He's going for gold on and off the ice. :)

Thanks the cat...I'm glad someone else noticed the part the interviewer played in that mess. :)

Chad was beyond pissed that Shani won. :lol:

The media was also pissed that there were no signs of his mother...I mean how can you harp on him being a momma's boy when you can't put momma on camera? :o :rolls:

harloo
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:38 PM
did you notice the amount of air time given to Chad during Shani's personal story piece before he started his race? Did they spend that much time on Shani when they did Chad's? (legit ?? I didn't see Chad's)

and where has anyone said they don't see bad in Shani? Everyone knows that he was pissed off and was deliberately curt in his interview...the difference is some of us feel that if that was what he was feeling it was his right to be curt while others feel that he should've forgotten all and *pretended* for the camera.

I was under the impression that Shani refused many of their additional requests for interviews so they might of taken it out on him. :o

And personally I feel that Shani just really hasn't had proper media training. He doesn't know how to deal with their ignorance with finesse like the sisters.;) However, in this case I felt no amount of graciousness would change the perception of his alleged "team" slight in the eyes of Americans. He could of came off in the interview more polished, or put on a big smile to please the media but that would of been pretentious. His expression summed up how he really felt about the criticism and it wasn't pretty, but was very REAL.

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:39 PM
For all the criticism that was thrown his way for not helping Chad win the team competition, I'm suprised that he didn't refuse to be interviewed after he won. The media made it seem like he was a traitor when that wasn't the case. And I guess you don't understand why Shani didn't "shuck and jive" to give the impression that everything was alright.

Shani has stated that he went to his website and saw AMERICANS wishing he would break his leg, hoping that he would fall, and calling him the N word left and right. After reading that and hearing all the mess from the commentators would you feel like "shucking and jiving" so the media can get their feel good story?

Enough said.;)

Shani had nothing but good things to say about Chad, but he couldn't even muster up a bit of class to congratulate the man on his gold medal performance? That's why I'm not buying any of the media hyped controversy. If Chad wasn't in the equation and seeking another gold for his trophy case noone would give a damn if Shani was on the team on not.
:o :D


Clearly, Hedrick is a low class loudmouth. (with bad eyebrows) But that's not my point.

I don't think it is about shucking and jiving for NBC. It's not about NBC, or Hedrick, or the National team. That interview was not watched by the National team, or just by NBC suits. It was watched by average Americans, that wanted to see what kind of guy he is, and his viewpoint. It's just unfortunate.

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I don't see how what he did in the interview was any different than how he acted while waiting to see if he won the gold? When he won, he didn't get animated...he gave a brief smile. I don't see why just because he got in front of the camera he should've been any different?

Also, I don't see anyone in this thread talking about how Hendrick showed his ass on national television by not supporting his fellow American and clapping for him or being happy for him when he won? How come that won't linger in people's minds?

The funny thing was if the girl giving the interview had just let his answers stand as he gave them very little would've been thought of his interview. He answered every questioned asked. Are you happy? yes. What does it mean to be the first AA~~ It means alot, etc. Your mother~~She worked hard too. Are you Angry? ~ No (This is the useless question)

and at then end of the interview he gave her a genuine smile.

So I don't see what the big deal is...we don't know if someone pissed him off right before the interview or if the interviewer pissed him off right before? He didn't curse her, He didn't walk away from her, he answered the questions asked truthfully...he just didn't do it with the attitude or demeanor that some of you clearly expected of him but so what how is that even close to being a big deal?

Again, Hedrick is his own mess.

But I have TIVO. I watched it again I was so incredulous. And no, Rocketta, I don't think that smile was genuine. He smiled, dipped behind her head with a smile, and a nanosecond later, emerged from behind her head, absolutely smileless. So, IMO, that was not natural.

To me it is not a big deal, but I just wish that he could have shown the best side of himself in the interview that Americans that like him wanted to see.

harloo
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:46 PM
Clearly, Hedrick is a low class loudmouth. (with bad eyebrows) But that's not my point.

I don't think it is about shucking and jiving for NBC. It's not about NBC, or Hedrick, or the National team. That interview was not watched by the National team, or just by NBC suits. It was watched by average Americans, that wanted to see what kind of guy he is, and his viewpoint. It's just unfortunate.

Of course he could of came off more a bit more graceful, but I take any American who was watching this event were very aware of the the Shani controversy. And most likely they already considered him a traitor because any resistance to the system in this country is construed as diss to patriotism.

The talking heads were already pouncing on Shani for his decision from day one. Call me cynical, but I don't believe any amount of graciousness would of changed the American public's opinion about his decision. ;)

the cat
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Rockie, good point about Shani's mom not being seen by NBC. NBC was not pleased about that. ;) And Melissa Stark is normally a solid interviewer. But she should have realised that Davis may have been feeling all kinds of emotions winning the gold medal doing it his way and not as a U.S. speed skating team member. Once he showed her he wasn't going to be emotional and happy during the interview she should have backed off and relaxed. That may have gotten more out of Davis than badgering him did.

Did they show the medal ceremony? If so how did it go? Did Joey Cheek acknowledge Shani Davis on the podium? I would hope he did.

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:52 PM
BTW, if you really want to barf, go to www.goldmedalgreats.com and look up Chad Hedrick. He is already up and available for speaking engagements. :barf:

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Again, Hedrick is his own mess.

But I have TIVO. I watched it again I was so incredulous. And no, Rocketta, I don't think that smile was genuine. He smiled, dipped behind her head with a smile, and a nanosecond later, emerged from behind her head, absolutely smileless. So, IMO, that was not natural.

To me it is not a big deal, but I just wish that he could have shown the best side of himself in the interview that Americans that like him wanted to see.

Haha, I didn't mean genuine as I'm happy to be here talking to you...I meant genuine in a "kiss my ass bitch" way. :lol:

I think his fans will get to see that side of him when he feels comfortable and can trust the people who are conveying the message. I don't think he trusts NBC and didn't want to say one extra word for them but I suspect he'll give an interview for a media source he trusts and his fans will get to see his joy over winning.

also, I understand your worry for him and how he will be perceived. We all know that advertisers will not be calling because of this mess but I have to agree with Harloo, once they started spinning his decision to not race the pursuit as anti-team hence being anti-patriotic, the lack of endorsements were written on the wall. He seems to be ok with that. :shrug:

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 04:59 PM
BTW, if you really want to barf, go to www.goldmedalgreats.com (http://www.goldmedalgreats.com) and look up Chad Hedrick. He is already up and available for speaking engagements. :barf:

They showed some of his quotes and he is an ass. I believe one of them was, "I'm tired of people asking me about Shani, I'm the one who won a gold medal" :o Well not any more. :lol:

*edit*

that is a paraphrased quote. ;)

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:05 PM
so this whole thing has got me thinking. my country doesn't have any athletes at this olympics, and doesn't generally have a lot of olympians. and the way i see it, i'd be happy if someone on our olympic team did well, but i wouldn't be pissed if they decided not to participate in an event. i guess it's this whole patriotism issue, but i think people are too hard on these athletes, they are doing a job and chasing their dreams, why not just let them do their thing and be proud of them and your country when they do well. it seems to me people take the olympic team notion too far and turn it into a team sport which it isn't. sure you're skating under your country's flag but you're still skating for yourself. are all the other countries the same way about this so called patriotism and team comittment, where you're expected to give your left leg for your country? i'm seriously wondering because i live in the u.s. and to me someone choosing not to skate in an event shouldn't be a big thing? i see it that you're an individual athlete, and your country is there to offer support as a fan type thing, i guess along for the ride, not control your participation? does that make sense? i can't really explain it, but i guess my idea of the olympic spirit and national pride are different. maybe it's because we don't have the same media dominated culture. i dont know.:confused:

kabuki
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:07 PM
They showed some of his quotes and he is an ass. I believe one of them was, "I'm tired of people asking me about Shani, I'm the one who won a gold medal" :o Well not any more. :lol:

The whole comparing him to Eric Haiden thing just makes me want to hurl. He's just so damn full of himself. On that site, he says he's basically a household name in NED, but unknown in the US which is hard to swallow. Paris Hilton of Skating, my ass.

the cat
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:08 PM
Paulie dear, what's your country? :scratch: I thought you were an American.

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:11 PM
Paulie, what's your country? :scratch:
i'm a zambian citizen. but my family is south african as well. i've lived in europe for a lot of my life as well, and i don't think i remember a similar attitude. it just seems like a much bigger deal here. it just seems like the whole culture surrounding sports is really all or nothing, with or against the team/country. :unsure:

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:13 PM
The whole comparing him to Eric Haiden thing just makes me want to hurl. He's just so damn full of himself. On that site, he says he's basically a household name in NED, but unknown in the US which is hard to swallow. Paris Hilton of Skating, my ass.

Yeah the hype machine was seriously rolling on that one. :lol:

and since when has speed skaters ever been known in the states? :rolleyes: His quotes make it sound like others have been household names and he just isn't liked for some strange reason. :tears:

:lol:

tenn_ace
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:19 PM
Excuse me, but you sound like an ignorant little child whose candy just got swiped. Tell us all how you know what this young man went through? I've just finished reading about him, and also witnessed a TV interview his mother gave. People like you are why this young man and his mother don't talk...
Because regardless of what they say, people allow their ignorance to cloud reality. And as usual, you rise to the top.
Why am I not surprised. :rolleyes:
In retrospect, it seems you aren't the only child here. :lol:


blah-blah-blah total bullshit


call ACLU :rolleyes:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:20 PM
Just thought I would add this to the mix
http://www.thenewstribune.com/24hour/sports/olympic/story/3179493p-11888681c.html

RAY McNULTY: Shani Davis puts self above team


Scripps Howard News Service
Friday, February 17th, 2006 02:35 PM (PST)


TURIN, Italy (SH) - Is it OK for an American to root against an American?

Because I want to.

I want American speedskater Shani Davis to lose Saturday in the Olympic men's 1,000-meter race - and lose badly.

He's behaving like a selfish, me-first jerk isn't.

Davis, the reigning world all-around champion, had a chance to help the United States win a gold medal Wednesday in the team-pursuit competition. He had a chance to help his teammate, Chad Hedrick, chase history. He had a chance to embrace the Olympic spirit and put the team ahead of himself.

He had more than a chance, really. He had an obligation.

And he shrunk from it.

After failing to medal in the 5,000-meter race last Saturday, after watching Hedrick skate to Olympic gold, Davis turned his back on his U.S. teammates and went his own way.

He deserted. He has made these Winter Games all about him. He has become the Terrell Owens of his sport.

Rather than skate for the U.S. in the team-pursuit races, he withdrew, saying he wanted to focus his energy and efforts on the 1,000-meter - his best event.

"I didn't come here to skate the team pursuit," Davis said at the time. "I've been training all year for the 1,000-meter. I want to give myself the best opportunity in the 1,000-meter. Skating the pursuit would take away from that. It's not a difficult decision."

It should have been a no-brainer. http://www.thenewstribune.com/images/header/advertisement2.gif
He's here to skate for his country, which is supposed to be an honor, even a privilege. He should've skated for his country. He should've been a team player.

But, clearly, he isn't.

"It's my career," said Davis, 23, who grew up on the tough streets of Chicago's South Side. "I could care less what people say about me."

Then he won't mind me saying this: He's a disgrace to the uniform.

Davis might be a terrific skater, but he's a lousy teammate. He's a lone wolf. He's not exactly somebody you want in your foxhole.

It's bad enough that Davis, who is striving to become the first black competitor to win an individual gold medal in the Winter Olympics, put his pursuit of personal glory above the success of the team. But he did something every bit as deplorable. He knowingly, maybe intentionally, let down a teammate.

"There can be only one No. 1," he recently told a Chicago newspaper.

He wants it to be him.

And, please, for those of you who might disagree, let's keep race out of it.

The fact that Davis is black is irrelevent.

Hedrick came to Italy with a believable chance to become Eric Heiden, the American speedskating legend who won five gold medals at the 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid.

Just to put that in perspective: Heiden was Mark Spitz - on frozen water. He was unbeatable on ice. And if it hadn't been for Herb Brooks and his lovable U.S. hockey team, which pulled off a miraculous upset over the Soviet Union and went on to win an unimaginable gold medal, Heiden would've been the face of those Olympics.

Hedrick's quest was to share Olympus with such a skating god. But because the team-pursuit event was added to the Winter Olympics this year, he needed help to get there. He needed Davis to skate with him in the team pursuit.

"I'd like him to be in it because it would be a pretty sure gold medal, so it's tough to swallow," the 28-year-old Texan said after Davis backed out. "You would have the two best skaters in the world on the same team."

Davis, however, refused to skate. And the Hedrick-led U.S. team failed to medal, losing to eventual-champion Italy in the quarterfinals.

Afterward, Hedrick, a class act, said there was no one to blame. But he was wrong. And everyone knows it.

Even Heiden.

In an interview with NBC's Olympic Web site, Heiden tried to be diplomatic, saying Davis' dilemma was a "tough call." But he also said, given the same situation, he probably would've skated in the team pursuit.

"I think it would've been very easy to participate and come back well-rested for the 1,000-meter, and maybe even use that race as training," Heiden told NBCOlympics.com, later adding, "I can't imagine that racing on Wednesday, only one round, would limit his ability to race in the 1,000-meter on Saturday. That's a long time. Physically, I think he was more than capable of doing both. And he missed a great opportunity to test the ice at race speed."

Davis missed more than that.

He missed a chance to be a team player, to selflessly help Hedrick do something special, to endear himself to America, which loves to root for the good guy.

Now, no matter what happens today, Davis will come away from these Olympics as just another self-absorbed, all-about-me athlete who doesn't get it. I hope he doesn't get a medal, either.

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:28 PM
BHS, thanks for that article. :rolls:

"Hendrick is a class act." :spit:

The author talks about team and country in the beginning but then all he can talk about his Hendrick and his imagined quest for 5 golds. :lol: If everyone's outrage was really about Shani letting the team down wouldn't they be concentrating on the teammates who didn't get a medal at all as opposed to the one who's already got a medal? :tape:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:29 PM
BHS, thanks for that article. :rolls:

"Hendrick is a class act." :spit:

The author talks about team and country in the beginning but then all he can talk about his Hendrick and his imagined quest for 5 golds. :lol: If everyone's outrage was really about Shani letting the team down wouldn't they be concentrating on the teammates who didn't get a medal at all as opposed to the one who's already got a medal? :tape:

Stop making sense........:fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

wta_zuperfann
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:30 PM
RAY McNULTY: Shani Davis puts self above team


Perhaps McNUT-ty fails to understand is that when the medals ceremony is given for winning the 1000 sprint, it was the USA National Anthem that's being played. Therefore, the victory is for the USA.

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Just thought I would add this to the mix

that is an interesting take on it. but i disagree for several reasons.
1. from what i've read davis said he part of the reason he didn't want to skate was because he didn't want to take the chance of skating in the olympics from other athletes who had been brought there specifically to skate in that event. this seems to be that part that a lot of people are leaving out. people seem to be angry not because he wasn't thinking about team mates, but because he wasn't thinking about the hopes and dreams of the particular team member they wanted him to be thinking about. he let down one teammate but gave another the chance to skate at the olympics that he's been dreaming about.
2nd. as i said in another post from my perspective the role of your country is a lot different than that the media gives it. i think your country is there to share in your joy and success not dictate your dreams. i don't think of a country's olympic team in the same sense as a team in a regular team sport. his medal still counts as an american medal, i don't think you should ask much more than that.
i can see this writer's perspective though. :)

the cat
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Thanks for the info Paulie.

Thanks for the article brick. Now we know part of the reason why Chad Hedrick is down on Shani Davis. And Davis as Eric Heiden pointed out could have skated the team pursuit final on wednseday and still been well rested for the 1000 on saturday. But he chose not to which was his right. And being a U.S. team outsider probably made his decision to skip the team pursuit final an easy one.

Rocketta
Feb 19th, 2006, 05:38 PM
RAY McNULTY: Shani Davis puts self above team


Perhaps McNUT-ty fails to understand is that when the medals ceremony is given for winning the 1000 sprint, it was the USA National Anthem that's being played. Therefore, the victory is for the USA.

eh, the problem is that the wrong person is standing up there when the national anthem is being played, ie it doesn't count. :lol:

Infiniti2001
Feb 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM
And, please, for those of you who might disagree, let's keep race out of it.

The fact that Davis is black is irrelevent.

Hedrick came to Italy with a believable chance to become Eric Heiden, the American speedskating legend who won five gold medals at the 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid.

Just to put that in perspective: Heiden was Mark Spitz - on frozen water. He was unbeatable on ice. And if it hadn't been for Herb Brooks and his lovable U.S. hockey team, which pulled off a miraculous upset over the Soviet Union and went on to win an unimaginable gold medal, Heiden would've been the face of those Olympics.

Hedrick's quest was to share Olympus with such a skating god. But because the team-pursuit event was added to the Winter Olympics this year, he needed help to get there. He needed Davis to skate with him in the team pursuit.

"I'd like him to be in it because it would be a pretty sure gold medal, so it's tough to swallow," the 28-year-old Texan said after Davis backed out. "You would have the two best skaters in the world on the same team."

Davis, however, refused to skate. And the Hedrick-led U.S. team failed to medal, losing to eventual-champion Italy in the quarterfinals.

Afterward, Hedrick, a class act, said there was no one to blame. But he was wrong. And everyone knows it.

Even Heiden.

These words speak volumes. You know, at first I too thought Davis was a bit aloof, but after learning more about his situation with the team and seeing the arrogance of Hendrick , I say bravo to him for looking out only for himself. Winning the team gold was all about the mighty Hendrick , they didn't give a fuck about Davis :fiery:

PaulieM
Feb 19th, 2006, 07:00 PM
someone posted this as a response to the discusion of the davis situation on another board and i thought parts of it were interesting, especially the last part:
Davis’ curt answers to a reporter do not display a “gang mentality”, Lys (of Birmingham).
However, consider the bad sportsmanship of Hedrick and his “teammates” in the wake of Davis’ win. Their individual and collective inability to congratulate an American who just added a gold medal to the tally for the USA is telling. That is a gang mentality and the leader of the gang is Hedrick who is the most selfish, childish athlete, non-team player out there.
No amount of racially charged rhetoric will wipe away the fact that Hedrick is a cry baby who is miffed because Davis was not SUBSTITUTED for a slower, older skater that Hedrick wanted gone [that skater actually apologized to Hedrick because he was so slow]. This skater was scheduled to skate in the Team Pursuit not Davis and that race would tax Davis’ legs for the 1000m. It would have been as reckless as Jacobellis’ showboating for Davis to have participated. Hedrick, on the other hand, had no chance of winning in the 1000m, so he didn’t lose anything by participating. He wanted to sacrifice Davis so that he could beat Heiden’s record of gold. Hedrick is not a teammate and, if anyone, you should be ashamed of him and his gang mentality.
Ask yourself, why didn’t they just ask 1000m silver medalist Jeff Cheek participate in the team pursuit? [If you think it is because he had done the 500 m a day before then you must concede Davis’ concern over the effect of competing too soon thereafter]

hablo
Feb 19th, 2006, 07:10 PM
I'm shocked, I can't believe the drama about that athlete going for gold... he won the GOLD... I'm glad (even though he raced our Canuck :mad: ) even if he would have raced in the team event, I don't think the US would have won, sorry :shrug:

congrats to Davis :yeah::hug: , I read on RDS how he got angry letters and racist stuff on his web site or something
http://www.rds.ca/jo/chroniques/198517.html

Canada won a silver in bobsleigh :D ;)
http://www.rds.ca/images/chroniques/198491.jpg (Photo PC) Pierre Lueders et Lascelles Brown sont médaillés d'argent à Turin.

Kabezya
Feb 19th, 2006, 07:17 PM
Yes, the American sense of patriotism is showing itself at Shani's site and more specifically his message board.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:10 AM
Again, Hedrick is his own mess.

But I have TIVO. I watched it again I was so incredulous. And no, Rocketta, I don't think that smile was genuine. He smiled, dipped behind her head with a smile, and a nanosecond later, emerged from behind her head, absolutely smileless. So, IMO, that was not natural.

To me it is not a big deal, but I just wish that he could have shown the best side of himself in the interview that Americans that like him wanted to see. Though I respect your P.O.V., I'm wondering about an element of your post that is glaring in it's absence---The same level of admonition that you've slammed Shani with. Certainly Shani could have done things differently, but WHY?! And who cares what Americans WANT to see?! This is an INDIVIDUAL sport in the Olympics where this young man could have used some ASSISTANCE from these Americans of which you refer to. And who basically showed him what he and his mother meant to American UP UNTIL HE WON THE GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So are you saying that he should demonstrate the resolve, patience, and mercy of a prophet, kiss their feet and smile away the pain? JEEVUS!!
Unfortunately, Kabuki, you've and others have played right into the media's hands. :shrug:
I for one saw right through it. Shame too, because they've pulled the BS with Venus and Serena for 9 years. *sigh*

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Rockie, good point about Shani's mom not being seen by NBC. NBC was not pleased about that. ;) And Melissa Stark is normally a solid interviewer. But she should have realised that Davis may have been feeling all kinds of emotions winning the gold medal doing it his way and not as a U.S. speed skating team member. Once he showed her he wasn't going to be emotional and happy during the interview she should have backed off and relaxed. That may have gotten more out of Davis than badgering him did.

Did they show the medal ceremony? If so how did it go? Did Joey Cheek acknowledge Shani Davis on the podium? I would hope he did.Cat, this speaks to the very foundation of the problem, and also to what Rocky is saying.

No amount of emotion would have endeared him to the American public since most of what was stated in the mass media was how Shani was a traitor. :shrug: For peet sake, he's just a youngster trying to be the best in his sport!
And this Melissa Stark chick made me wonder how in the world she got her job, when all she could muster was a terse reply about him being 'Angry'. Now THAT brought back some pretty hurtful memories about how all black teens (people no less) are supposed to be angry all the time. :rolleyes: What an ignorant little woman to have tossed that myth into the mix. :fiery:

What made this even worse was the OREO COOKIE anchor on my local news station (Ch 11) by the name of DJ something or other, who had the nerve to reference Shani's attitude as if he himself couldn't understand (which I'm sure he couldn't, judging from his own terse commentary) and uppity attitude.
I find this all both very amusing, and very sad.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:48 AM
so this whole thing has got me thinking. my country doesn't have any athletes at this olympics, and doesn't generally have a lot of olympians. and the way i see it, i'd be happy if someone on our olympic team did well, but i wouldn't be pissed if they decided not to participate in an event. i guess it's this whole patriotism issue, but i think people are too hard on these athletes, they are doing a job and chasing their dreams, why not just let them do their thing and be proud of them and your country when they do well. it seems to me people take the olympic team notion too far and turn it into a team sport which it isn't. sure you're skating under your country's flag but you're still skating for yourself. are all the other countries the same way about this so called patriotism and team comittment, where you're expected to give your left leg for your country? i'm seriously wondering because i live in the u.s. and to me someone choosing not to skate in an event shouldn't be a big thing? i see it that you're an individual athlete, and your country is there to offer support as a fan type thing, i guess along for the ride, not control your participation? does that make sense? i can't really explain it, but i guess my idea of the olympic spirit and national pride are different. maybe it's because we don't have the same media dominated culture. i dont know.:confused:The way I see it, some people are not considered relevant until they place well in the Olympics. And the U.S. has had a long notorious history of possessing this kind of mind set for decades. I recall how they treated Jesse Owens. They used him politically, then cast him aside. It is this sort of thing that we remember when representing the U.S.
Moreover, there is also a huge element of white/black issues here that aren't being discussed, but I'm so tired of this story that I'm not about to embellish on the obvious.

Quite frequently, it seems that politics usually does find its way into the Olympics as well. However, in this case, where you have a young man who has let it be known that he is skating for himself, you have to wonder why HE is the one garnering all the hate when Hendricks made related statements. Yet Americans allow a scumbag like him have all the media time he wants to tarnish a teammate. You gotta love America.
I find it all very typical and expected.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:54 AM
that is an interesting take on it. but i disagree for several reasons.
1. from what i've read davis said he part of the reason he didn't want to skate was because he didn't want to take the chance of skating in the olympics from other athletes who had been brought there specifically to skate in that event. this seems to be that part that a lot of people are leaving out. people seem to be angry not because he wasn't thinking about team mates, but because he wasn't thinking about the hopes and dreams of the particular team member they wanted him to be thinking about. he let down one teammate but gave another the chance to skate at the olympics that he's been dreaming about.
2nd. as i said in another post from my perspective the role of your country is a lot different than that the media gives it. i think your country is there to share in your joy and success not dictate your dreams. i don't think of a country's olympic team in the same sense as a team in a regular team sport. his medal still counts as an american medal, i don't think you should ask much more than that.
i can see this writer's perspective though. :) :worship: :worship:
You are so on point on so many of your posts. :yeah:

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:59 AM
A black man wins a gold medal in an individual sport, and people say he's not a team player.

What does it matter that he's black? Are you implying that that is the only reason that he's criticized? :rolleyes:

And what does the gold medal in the individual event have to do with the team event? :confused:

Could you imagine the comments if we ever win gold in the biathlon? "Those people get so much practice shooting each other, I'm surprised they haven't won this event sooner!" :rolleyes:

Once again, you're obviously implying that all of the criticism on him is because he's black, since you liken it to some racist hypothetical biathlon comment that never happened.

:rolleyes:

Diesel
Feb 20th, 2006, 02:02 AM
What does it matter that he's black? Are you implying that that is reason that he's criticized? :rolleyes:

It is for the people who had the nerve to go to his site and call him a ****** and that his kind don't know a thing about loyalty. Don't act like his race isn't a factor and a major one here. It is partly why he's celebrated and why he's also denigrated.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 02:19 AM
You know, part of the reason why ths Shani / Hendricks issue has incensed me is because of the underlying messages. One in particular that he's not an individual.

For example, in the article posted by brickhousesupporter, http://www.thenewstribune.com/24hour/sports/olympic/story/3179493p-11888681c.html
The author attempts to take the racial element out of the discussion, but why? It is an obvious attempt to quell what the foundation of the problem is.

Here's what I see.

In the papers, on TV, all over the media, Shani's win is reported as FIRST BLACK TO WIN WINTER OLYMPIC GOLD!!!
Why can't he be an athlete who won Olympic gold first?! THEN be black? Yet this country always wants it both ways.
Black, then an individual.
An individual, then Black.

Whites are always considered individuals first regardless of the issues.
Why is that? [this is not a question I expect to get an answer from] :hehehe:

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 02:28 AM
It is for the people who had the nerve to go to his site and call him a ****** and that his kind don't know a thing about loyalty. Don't act like his race isn't a factor and a major one here. It is partly why he's celebrated and why he's also denigrated.

Yeah, for some people, it's about race.

But the article in the very first post references his teammate, Chad Hedrick, scrutinizing him for "skipping the team pursuit".

Do you not think Hedrick would have criticized a white teammate for the same thing?

kabuki
Feb 20th, 2006, 02:45 AM
Whites are always considered individuals first regardless of the issues.
Why is that? [this is not a question I expect to get an answer from] :hehehe:

:secret: Because they are the majority. Just like gays are gay first.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:06 AM
:secret: Because they are the majority. Just like gays are gay first.BINGO!! And therefore set the rules. :worship:

Next question: Who is in prime position to resolve such issues, and why don't they? ;)

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:08 AM
If the media doesn't put "First black person to win....", then people get upset at the "racist" media for not recognizing such an historic event.

If the media does put "First black person to win...", then they're still "racist" for bring color into things.

If the media says "So and so is the first white guy to win the slam dunk contest" (for example), then people would get pissed at the "racist" media for "gloating" that the white guy won a predominantly black event.

And if they don't mention that someone's "white", they still get criticized.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

(You can't please all of the people all of the time. And some people you can never please.)

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:25 AM
If the media doesn't put "First black person to win....", then people get upset at the "racist" media for not recognizing such an historic event.

If the media does put "First black person to win...", then they're still "racist" for bring color into things.Why use 'Black' at all? Why not just say, "Shani Davis Adds Another Gold To U.S. Total"?:shrug:

If the media says "So and so is the first white guy to win the slam dunk contest" (for example), then people would get pissed at the "racist" media for "gloating" that the white guy won a predominantly black event.It would be obvious to anyone who watches basketball that whoever wins is an individual. Who cares what color he is? :confused:

And if they don't mention that someone's "white", they still get criticized.Okay, again, why would people get upset? And specifically who would get upset?

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

(You can't please all of the people all of the time. And some people you can never please.)Obviously, you're playing on the theme that we Williams supporters use. :haha: Unfortunately, it doesn't apply in this case. Nice try anyway. ;)

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:37 AM
One other thing:

Why can't the media just post a name and a picture?
At that point it's nearly obvious what the individual is. :shrug:
This is a game the media loves to play chicken with, at peoples' expense.

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:49 AM
Why use 'Black' at all? Why not just say, "Shani Davis Adds Another Gold To U.S. Total"?:shrug:

Hey, I'm fine with that. But like I said, some people would get offended if the media didn't recognize the "historic event".

And, BTW, if I (as a white guy) said what you just said about leaving out the fact that a person is black, I would get called "racist" and I'm sure I'd hear at least one "It's a black thing...you wouldn't understand.".

It would be obvious to anyone who watches basketball that whoever wins is an individual. Who cares what color he is? :confused:

And the color would be obvious too, just based on the name, to anyone that watches basketball.

At least you're being consistent.

Okay, again, why would people get upset? And specifically who would get upset?

I don't know why people get upset. But specifically, YOU seemed to get upset that the media never mentions that someone is white.

Obviously, you're playing on the theme that we Williams supporters use. :haha: Unfortunately, it doesn't apply in this case. Nice try anyway. ;)

I'm not trying to copy anything that WS supporters say. That phrase has been around WAY before anyone here used it. And, yes, it DOES apply here....

Like I said, the media is "Damned if they do, damned if they don't." (In other words, as I also said, "You can't please all of the people all of the time.")

If they mention race, someone (you) criticizes them for it. ("damned if they do")

And if they don't mention race, someone else criticizes them for it. ("damned if they don't")

If the media didn't recognize V&S as the "first black women to....", some people would have a fit about it.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 04:33 AM
Hey, I'm fine with that. But like I said, some people would get offended if the media didn't recognize the "historic event". Sure, some people would get upset. But what's best for everyone at this point? That a few get upset, or that the majority of the emotinally balanced don't? :)

And, BTW, if I (as a white guy) said what you just said about leaving out the fact that a person is black, I would get called "racist" and I'm sure I'd hear at least one "It's a black thing...you wouldn't understand.".:lol: You're kidding, right?
Let me clue you in for a sec.
In this country, it is already assumed you are white , if a picture does not accompany the name. [I]That is why I posted 'name along with picture' above. ;)

And the color would be obvious too, just based on the name, to anyone that watches basketball.

At least you're being consistent.Again, as I've already written, if a name is accompanied by a picture, then that takes care of any questions. :cool:

I don't know why people get upset. But specifically, YOU seemed to get upset that the media never mentions that someone is white. HUH?!? I have?!! When? Maybe you are misreading my posts. I suggest a re-read. :yeah:

I'm not trying to copy anything that WS supporters say. That phrase has been around WAY before anyone here used it. And, yes, it DOES apply here....Not based on your examples. Sorry. :shrug:

Like I said, the media is "Damned if they do, damned if they don't." (In other words, as I also said, "You can't please all of the people all of the time.")

If they mention race, someone (you) criticizes them for it. ("damned if they do")

And if they don't mention race, someone else criticizes them for it. ("damned if they don't")Could you post one or two examples why this is true. It would help your case significantly. Anyway, I personally could care less and I'm a man of color.

If the media didn't recognize V&S as the "first black women to....", some people would have a fit about it.Yes, some would, but as I've stated above, these are a very minute number of who the media sell their papers to. The bulk of people, in this country, get tired of the constant division.
"First Black Woman In Space."
"First Black Man To Win Winter Olympic Gold."
"First Black Man To get Jones Stuck In Zipper." :lol:

I mean, Black people have no power what's printed in the papers. It's White people who find this stuff important enough to mention it. Do you really believe that the mass media gives a hoot what the Blacks in this country want? Pa-lease! :rolleyes:

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:35 AM
how many of you in here don't know shit about speedskating
but are just in here cause the guy's black?

Sevenseas
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:38 AM
Congratulations for such a magnificent accomplishment !!!!! :worship:

I wish him continuous success in his career...:worship:

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:14 AM
how many of you in here don't know shit about speedskating
but are just in here cause the guy's black? I'm just waiting for the Curling competition to end. :o Then the real partying starts. ;)

Don't laugh...
We just defeated Germany. http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-olyround0219.artfeb19,0,7532113.story?coll=hc-headlines-sports and have an opportunity to metal. :cool: :wavey:

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Sure, some people would get upset. But what's best for everyone at this point? That a few get upset, or that the majority of the emotinally balanced don't? :)

Hey, I agree. But I was under the impression that a lot of people here would be offended.

HUH?!? I have?!! When? Maybe you are misreading my posts. I suggest a re-read. :yeah:

Maybe I misunderstood this part....

In the papers, on TV, all over the media, Shani's win is reported as FIRST BLACK TO WIN WINTER OLYMPIC GOLD!!!
Why can't he be an athlete who won Olympic gold first?! THEN be black? Yet this country always wants it both ways.
Black, then an individual.
An individual, then Black.

Whites are always considered individuals first regardless of the issues....

I interpreted that as "Why do they always mention race for black people, but not for white people?" :confused:

Could you post one or two examples why this is true. It would help your case significantly.

I don't think I can spell it out any more clearly. We've already established the "damned if they do" part. The "damned if they don't" part exists too, we just disagree on the scale/number of people that it applies to.

I mean, Black people have no power what's printed in the papers. It's White people who find this stuff important enough to mention it. Do you really believe that the mass media gives a hoot what the Blacks in this country want? Pa-lease! :rolleyes:

Is BET owned/controlled by white people? :confused:

Check some of their articles....

http://www.bet.com/Entertainment/Archives/BET.com+-+Historic+Firsts+at+Oscars_+Halle_+Denzel_+Sidney+ Win+145.htm

Historic Firsts at Oscars: Halle, Denzel, Sidney Win

http://www.bet.com/News/tlscott_ricesupporters.htm

Rice Is First Black Woman Secretary of State

http://www.bet.com/News/FOWLERNFL.htm

Reggie Fowler Is Slated to Become NFL's First Black Owner

I can list more, but you get the picture....

:cool:

WF4EVER
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:39 AM
If Hedrick had done what Shani did youwouldn't be hearing all this controversy about him being selfish or that he should have put country first. SHani should have literally shown all of them his ass because none of them have helped him to get where he is. Team spirit my ass. He got where he is because he was determined not to give up no matter what roadblocks he met.

I am so sick and tired of this hypocrisy. If Shani were white he wouldn't have been getting all this shit.

He should tell them all to kiss his black behind and go on about his business.

Marcell
Feb 20th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Hey, I agree. But I was under the impression that a lot of people here would be offended.



Maybe I misunderstood this part....



I interpreted that as "Why do they always mention race for black people, but not for white people?" :confused:



I don't think I can spell it out any more clearly. We've already established the "damned if they do" part. The "damned if they don't" part exists too, we just disagree on the scale/number of people that it applies to.



Is BET owned/controlled by white people? :confused:

Check some of their articles....

http://www.bet.com/Entertainment/Archives/BET.com+-+Historic+Firsts+at+Oscars_+Halle_+Denzel_+Sidney+ Win+145.htm

Historic Firsts at Oscars: Halle, Denzel, Sidney Win

http://www.bet.com/News/tlscott_ricesupporters.htm

Rice Is First Black Woman Secretary of State

http://www.bet.com/News/FOWLERNFL.htm

Reggie Fowler Is Slated to Become NFL's First Black Owner

I can list more, but you get the picture....

:cool:

Sorry to tell you but BET is no longer black owned.

Infiniti2001
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:07 PM
Is BET owned/controlled by white people?

Yes fucktard!!! It's owned by Viacom which also own CBS, VH1, MTV, need I go on??

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:17 PM
I am so sick and tired of this hypocrisy. If Shani were white he wouldn't have been getting all this shit.


You are 100 % correct.

Canadian speed skater Cindy Klassen is White and she also refused to run in the pursuit for the same reason that Shani Davis did. Note how there was absolutely no controversy whatsoever.

Another Canadian Tanith Belbin who is an iceskater got American
citizenship on New Year's Eve in order to skate for the USA in ice dancing. Nobody called her unpatriotic and, again, there was no controversy whatsoever.

The same white America news media that has been saying all that shit about Shani said nothing about either of those girls.

PaulieM
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:19 PM
how many of you in here don't know shit about speedskating
but are just in here cause the guy's black?
and how many idiots came in to post nonsense without reading the thread first? i can think of one. :)

Lord Nelson
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:19 PM
:secret: Because they are the majority. Just like gays are gay first.
Are whites majority in China, India, South Africa, Congo, etc... I think not, Sorry to disappoint you but I believe that globally whites are not the majority. Maybe people of Mogoloid stock due to Chinese are the majority.
Gays are gay first. Well you may think that but I see you first as a human being. I am against categories and gap people are not a race anyways.
If you were just referring to winter games then don't forget that the majority, people of Mongoloid race, have won medals such as in short track race. If whites dominated sports here so what, don't blacks dominated NFL, NBA, track etc...

kabuki
Feb 20th, 2006, 01:41 PM
Are whites majority in China, India, South Africa, Congo, etc... I think not, Sorry to disappoint you but I believe that globally whites are not the majority. Maybe people of Mogoloid stock due to Chinese are the majority.
Gays are gay first. Well you may think that but I see you first as a human being. I am against categories and gap people are not a race anyways.
If you were just referring to winter games then don't forget that the majority, people of Mongoloid race, have won medals such as in short track race. If whites dominated sports here so what, don't blacks dominated NFL, NBA, track etc...

:secret: We were discussing the US.

We don't care about the rest of you people. :p

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 02:22 PM
Yes fucktard!!! It's owned by Viacom which also own CBS, VH1, MTV, need I go on??

So much for civilized discussion, eh? :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, BET is still probably controlled/edited/written by (and for) black people.

And even IF it were not....that doesn't change the fact that some people here (and I'm guessing that you're one of them) would call the media "racist" if they didn't "recognize such historic events" by including "... first black to...." in the title.

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 02:52 PM
I am so sick and tired of this hypocrisy.

If you wanna talk about hypocisy, why don't you talk about Bryant Gumble's comments about the Winter Olympics. :rolleyes:

Had a white guy made comments about a predominantly black sporting event and criticized their athletes as "pseudo-athletes", said how stupid it is (not my opinion) for basketball to be in the Olympics since the Ancient Greeks never played basketball, made racist implications by pointing out the low number of whites in the sport, and said "can't we get to hockey season, already", that guy would be slammed ALL OVER the media. There would be an outcry for his resignation. And there would be at least 10 threads here about it already.

Hypocrisy? Yeah, but it usually works the other way around.

Trent Lott and Rush Limbaugh get the front page, and get run out of town.

But when it's Robert Byrd and Bryant Gumble, what happens?

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:01 PM
:secret: Because they are the majority. Just like gays are gay first.

That's one thing that bugs me about fags...I'm an American above all else...but the majority of fags here in America that I know consider themselves to be a fag above everything else. It's quite bizarre to me to think that way, and I get ostracized a lot...but I'll be okay...and I'm sure this skater dude will be , too! :wavey:

harloo
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:12 PM
I'm just waiting for the Curling competition to end. :o Then the real partying starts. ;)

Don't laugh...
We just defeated Germany. http://www.courant.com/sports/hc-olyround0219.artfeb19,0,7532113.story?coll=hc-headlines-sports and have an opportunity to metal. :cool: :wavey:

ROTF!! This is my first time viewing curling and I almost pissed in my pants watching the spectacle of it all. Why do they need three people to sweep a rock? :lol:

Rocketta
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:14 PM
Wait Bryant Gumball isn't white? :speakles:

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:16 PM
Wait Bryant Gumball isn't white? :speakles:

Nope, but his wife is. :lol:

harloo
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:18 PM
That's one thing that bugs me about fags...I'm an American above all else...but the majority of fags here in America that I know consider themselves to be a fag above everything else. It's quite bizarre to me to think that way, and I get ostracized a lot...but I'll be okay...and I'm sure this skater dude will be , too! :wavey:

And one thing I can't understand about gay republicans is how they continue to support a party who thinks they are less than human and will burn in hell.

But I guess some people will settle for anything.:o :tape:

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:34 PM
how many of you in here don't know shit about speedskating
but are just in here cause the guy's black?

It is only natural to take more notice when someone different comes into a sport. Your words are sad and seemingly filled with anger (why?) but probably a lot of what he had to go through all through this white sport that didn't want to take notice of change.

harloo
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:47 PM
If you wanna talk about hypocisy, why don't you talk about Bryant Gumble's comments about the Winter Olympics. :rolleyes:

Had a white guy made comments about a predominantly black sporting event and criticized their athletes as "pseudo-athletes", said how stupid it is (not my opinion) for basketball to be in the Olympics since the Ancient Greeks never played basketball, made racist implications by pointing out the low number of whites in the sport, and said "can't we get to hockey season, already", that guy would be slammed ALL OVER the media. There would be an outcry for his resignation. And there would be at least 10 threads here about it already.

Hypocrisy? Yeah, but it usually works the other way around.

Trent Lott and Rush Limbaugh get the front page, and get run out of town.

But when it's Robert Byrd and Bryant Gumble, what happens?

Cheesestix, can I ask you a question?

What are you talking about? You are discussing many racial issues that are irrelevant to the topic. I don't see anyone besides you in this thread that has a problem with the "labeling" of the media. It's been going on for years and it's not exclusive to the "first black/African American" either.

Bryant Gumbel has been slammed for his comments on talk radio and on many other shows. I don't understand how you missed it because I've heard the criticism of his comments loud and clear.

And considering you defended the "aborting black babies" comment not to long ago, one would think you would agree that Gumbel has a right to speak his mind. Rush makes racist statements on his radio show every other day, where's your outrage then? As a matter of fact it seems some conservatives are selective when it comes to this issue. It's call HYPOCRISY.

IMO, what Gumbel said was inappropriate considering we have American's still competing in the competition. However, some conservatives really should take a long hard look at themselves. The question should be, Why do I have a problem with someone like Bryant Gumbel making a comment in reference to race, but then I see nothing wrong with the right wing nut jobs mouthing off racist comments regualry?

And if you didn't get the memo Bryant Gumbel stopped being black about 20 years ago. :o :lol:

harloo
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:54 PM
I am so sick and tired of this hypocrisy. If Shani were white he wouldn't have been getting all this shit.


You are 100 % correct.

Canadian speed skater Cindy Klassen is White and she also refused to run in the pursuit for the same reason that Shani Davis did. Note how there was absolutely no controversy whatsoever.

Another Canadian Tanith Belbin who is an iceskater got American
citizenship on New Year's Eve in order to skate for the USA in ice dancing. Nobody called her unpatriotic and, again, there was no controversy whatsoever.

The same white America news media that has been saying all that shit about Shani said nothing about either of those girls.

:worship: :worship: Thanks for that bit of information. Good rep to you.:wavey:

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 03:59 PM
I am so sick and tired of this hypocrisy. If Shani were white he wouldn't have been getting all this shit.


You are 100 % correct.

Canadian speed skater Cindy Klassen is White and she also refused to run in the pursuit for the same reason that Shani Davis did. Note how there was absolutely no controversy whatsoever.

Another Canadian Tanith Belbin who is an iceskater got American
citizenship on New Year's Eve in order to skate for the USA in ice dancing. Nobody called her unpatriotic and, again, there was no controversy whatsoever.

The same white America news media that has been saying all that shit about Shani said nothing about either of those girls.

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that they were Canadian? :confused:

Infiniti2001
Feb 20th, 2006, 04:00 PM
Cheesestix, can I ask you a question?

What are you talking about? You are discussing many racial issues that are irrelevant to the topic. I don't see anyone besides you in this thread that has a problem with the "labeling" of the media. It's been going on for years and it's not exclusive to the "first black/African American" either.

Bryant Gumbel has been slammed for his comments on talk radio and on many other shows. I don't understand how you missed it because I've heard the criticism of his comments loud and clear.

And considering you defended the "aborting black babies" comment not to long ago, one would think you would agree that Gumbel has a right to speak his mind. Rush makes racist statements on his radio show every other day, where's your outrage then? As a matter of fact it seems some conservatives are selective when it comes to this issue. It's call HYPOCRISY.

IMO, what Gumbel said was inappropriate considering we have American's still competing in the competition. However, some conservatives really should take a long hard look at themselves. The question should be, Why do I have a problem with someone like Bryant Gumbel making a comment in reference to race, but then I see nothing wrong with the right wing nut jobs mouthing off racist comments regualry?

And if you didn't get the memo Bryant Gumbel stopped being black about 20 years ago. :o :lol:


:worship: :worship: :worship:

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 04:14 PM
Cheesestix, can I ask you a question?

What are you talking about? You are discussing many racial issues that are irrelevant to the topic. I don't see anyone besides you in this thread that has a problem with the "labeling" of the media. It's been going on for years and it's not exclusive to the "first black/African American" either.

What are YOU talking about? Have you even read the last 2 pages of this thread? If you had, you woudn't have made that statement. Or are you selectively criticizing? :rolleyes:

Personally, I don't really care about the "labeling" of the media. The WHOLE discussion started because ReeVeeDynasty doesn't like it. :rolleyes: I was just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that NO MATTER WHAT the situation, SOMEONE will get offended.

But, therein lies the problem. You only see what you want to see. That really goes in line with everything I'm saying.

And considering you defended the "aborting black babies" comment not to long ago, one would think you would agree that Gumbel has a right to speak his mind.

Okay, you'll have to show me that one. I don't remember. I don't know if I even posted on such a thread, what I said, or in what context. Are you sure that you're not confusing me with someone else?

Nonetheless, that's not the point. I have no problem with free speech. And yeah, Gumbel absolutely has the right to speak his mind. When did I say otherwise? (Again, you're reading things that ARE NOT there, just as you ignore things that ARE there.) Does that mean that I have to agree with everything he says? No.

Rush makes racist statements on his radio show every other day, where's your outrage then?

Why do you assume that all Conservatives listen to Rush Limbaugh? I don't listen to talk radio. And as a matter of fact, the ONLY Rush Limbaugh that I've heard in the past 10 years were the comments about McNabb, but ONLY because they were blasted all over the media for a week or two.

BTW, I'm sure there are Democrat/black talk radio shows that say equally inflammatory statements. Do YOU get outraged then?

harloo
Feb 20th, 2006, 04:58 PM
What are YOU talking about? Have you even read the last 2 pages of this thread? If you had, you woudn't have made that statement. Or are you selectively criticizing? :rolleyes:

Personally, I don't really care about the "labeling" of the media. The WHOLE discussion started because ReeVeeDynasty doesn't like it. :rolleyes: I was just playing devil's advocate and pointing out that NO MATTER WHAT the situation, SOMEONE will get offended.

But, therein lies the problem. You only see what you want to see. That really goes in line with everything I'm saying.

I have read the last two pages of this thread(the BET references of the first "black" etc. you made were uneccessary). Obviously from your posts on the subject you have a problem with the labeling so why backpeddal now?



Does it get the scrutiny that Rush Limbaugh got for his comments about McNabb? I don't think so. When THAT happened, it was all over the media. I didn't have to look for, it was just there, all the time. The ONLY place I've heard Gumbel's comments talked about on TV was on that Bill Mahrer show, and he practically agreed with it.

I have seen the comments talked about on various channels including the main ones. As a viewer, it's been the hot topic on everyone's show. I don't see where their is any great difference in coverage.

Also what Rush Limbaugh said had more weight than Gumbel's comments. Gumbel compared the lack of black athletes in the Winter Olympics to a GOP convention. Limbaugh blamed affirmative action and critcized the league for having a quota for black quaterbacks on national tv.

I think one holds more weight that the other, but that's my opinion. I did say that I thought Gumbel's comments were inappropriate because we have Olympians still competing. As a matter of fact it was uncalled for in the Olympic setting, but again my question is can some conservatives do the same thing when someone they support makes a racial comment?:confused:



Okay, you'll have to show me that one. I don't remember that. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? Still, show me please. I wanna know what you're referring to, especially the context.

Nonetheless, that's not the point. I have no problem with freedom of speech. The problem is that some get scrutinized, and some don't.


Of course you would have amnesia when called on defending those comments. I am not in the business of searching for posts, but you were indeed one of those who defended the "aborting black babies" comment. Maybe you forgot, but I surely have not.


I don't listen to talk radio. Why do you assume that all Conservatives listen to Rush Limbaugh? In fact, the only Rush Limbaugh I've heard in the last 10 years were his comments on McNabb, because it was blasted all over the media.

The operative word is "some". I have repeatedly stated "some" because it would be foolish for me to assume that all conservatives listen to talk radio. However, a large portion of them do otherwise the likes of Rush Limbaugh, and Dr Laura would be off the air. ;) :worship:


Again, I don't listen to talk radio. However, I'm sure there are equally inflammatory comments (as whatever you're referring to) on Democratic/black talk radio. Do you get outraged then?

Talk radio is slanted on both sides, however the difference between conservative talk radio and leftist stations is that the righties unapolegtically makes racist statements to their audiences. I have listened to both sides and don't agree with either some of the time, but I find that lefty stations leave the racism at the door. I can't say the same thing about conservative talk radio. They simply don't care and most of their listeners even agree with hosts.

ONLY in AmeriKKKa.:o ;)

And peace out, gotta go. Would love to squabble with you. maybe later.:lol:

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 05:19 PM
And one thing I can't understand about gay republicans is how they continue to support a party who thinks they are less than human and will burn in hell.

But I guess some people will settle for anything.:o :tape:

For 117th time...I'm not a Republican. I'm a fiscal conservative! :wavey:

The Republicans are spending way too much money for my taste to even be considered fiscal conservatives.

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 05:50 PM
I have read the last two pages of this thread(the BET references of the first "black" etc. you made were uneccessary). Obviously from your posts on the subject you have a problem with the labeling so why backpeddal now?

I'm not backpedalling. Read a little more closely.

First, you ONLY see 1 person (me) mentioning labeling. But the fact is that ReeVeeDynasty is the one that had a problem with it, and he's the one that brought it up FIRST. Not me. But again, you only see what you want to see.

Second, the ONLY reason I brought up BET was in response to ReeVeeDynasty saying that the white media is the one who sees the need to "label". Again, he brought it up first.

Also what Rush Limbaugh said had more weight than Gumbel's comments. Gumbel compared the lack of black athletes in the Winter Olympics to a GOP convention. Limbaugh blamed affirmative action and critcized the league for having a quota for black quaterbacks on national tv.

Like you said, that's YOUR opinion that one is greater than the other. Obviously, some people see it differently.

As a matter of fact it was uncalled for in the Olympic setting, but again my question is can some conservatives do the same thing when someone they support makes a racial comment?:confused:

You mean something like THIS...

I seem to recall a lot of top Republicans (including YOUR favorite, GWB) denouncing Trent Lott's comments. Lott was eventually pressured to resign.

Of course you would have amnesia when called on defending those comments. I am not in the business of searching for posts, but you were indeed one of those who defended the "aborting black babies" comment. Maybe you forgot, but I surely have not.

Prove It. Show me the post, or retract your comments. :rolleyes:

Like I said, I don't know which thread your talking about, what my comments were (if I even posted), or in what context they were made.

If what you say is true, prove it. And if I made the comments in the first place, why would I have a problem defending them? :confused:

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Maybe it had something to do with the fact that they were Canadian?


Read it again. Tanith is now American.

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Maybe it had something to do with the fact that they were Canadian?


Read it again. Tanith is now American.

I read it right the first time...

She LEFT Canada to become American. So, if she was unpatriotic, it was to Canada, not America. So why would the American press criticize her for being unpatriotic to another country?

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:25 PM
The point being that she like Cindy and like Shani did what they felt was best for them. And they, unlike Shani, did so without even a word of criticism from anybody.

Is it too much to ask that everyone be treated equally?

Ryan
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Cinday skated in up to the Finals of the team Pursuit, so it's not like she didn't care at all. She skated 2 or more races to make the finals for Canada.

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 06:44 PM
so it's not like she didn't care at all.

Shani is still skating as well. And when he won it was the Star Spangled Banner that was played which means that the Gold was won for the USA.


BTW, congrats to Canada for its success in the Olympics. While we in St Paul, MN often make jokes about the Provinces we actually love you guys up there.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Hey, I agree. But I was under the impression that a lot of people here would be offended.Okay, we're making progress here. :bounce: Maybe we can all come together in peace and harmony. ;) Maybe I misunderstood this part....No problem. That's why I stuck with it in an attempt to fully clarify. :yeah: I interpreted that as "Why do they always mention race for black people, but not for white people?" :confused: Here's my position on the mentioning of race once again...
If the American media could ever find the heart to report stories without making them racially charged, we'd all be so much better off. The first thing that they could do is to eliminate the need to constantly remind the reader of 'color'. That would go for all ethnicities. For instance, just pick up a newspaper anywhere, anytime, and flip through it and you will immidiately understand. They do it because it sells papers.
When you bold caption 'BLACK', the many White readers damn near have an immidaite "fear orgasm"...."OH MY GOD, THE BLACKS DID IT AGAIN." :lol:
Look, it's the same reason why shows such as COPS do so well. Maybe White America has a weird desire to be afraid for reasons I don't understand. But clearly 'fear sells papers'. :shrug: But for us 'Blacks', it's nothing more than the propagation of myths and the pure definition of racism when written in this manner.

So bottom line: Humanize the reports, and eliminate the 'color' element.
All the media needs is a picture and a name to get the point across.

Now, as far as sporting events are concerned...
It's great that Shani Davis was the first Black to win gold in the Winter Olympics. However, the emphasis of the story isn't that he won gold first, but that he is black first, THEN won gold. See the difference?
Why not just print 'Shani Davis Adds Gold To America's Win Column'? Then, within the body of the text, write 'Shani Davis becomes the first man of color to win gold in the Winter Olympics'?
See the difference? It a matter of empirical degrees. It may not look to be a great difference to you, but it is those of us who constantly are reminded of the 'color' distinction.
Writers know what they are doing and what to emphasize to get a particular reaction from the reader.I don't think I can spell it out any more clearly. We've already established the "damned if they do" part. The "damned if they don't" part exists too, we just disagree on the scale/number of people that it applies to.We will just agree to disagree here. It depends mainly on one's viewpoint and experiences, and ability to view a topic from many sides. So no problem. :wavey: Is BET owned/controlled by white people? :confused:

Check some of their articles....

http://www.bet.com/Entertainment/Archives/BET.com+-+Historic+Firsts+at+Oscars_+Halle_+Denzel_+Sidney+ Win+145.htm

Historic Firsts at Oscars: Halle, Denzel, Sidney Win

http://www.bet.com/News/tlscott_ricesupporters.htm

Rice Is First Black Woman Secretary of State

http://www.bet.com/News/FOWLERNFL.htm

Reggie Fowler Is Slated to Become NFL's First Black Owner

I can list more, but you get the picture....

:cool:Many posters have already answered the BET ownership question; which was a very sore point to every man and woman of color I know. :mad: We now have no media representation whatsoever. :fiery:
Oh well, such is life I suppose. :shrug:

And as far as the links you attached...
Harloo [in post #178] is correct in that you completely missed the point I was trying to make. If you have the time, go back and re-examine my posted points. Honestly, it will help. Normally, I'd repost what I've written. But I'm currently nursing a migraine and therefore lack the patience. My apologies. :wavey:

Incidentally, this is still a civil debate. :)

Babolatpro880
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:05 PM
It's great that he won a medal for the US and everything. THe only thing that upsets me is what a selfish jerk he is.

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:17 PM
It's great that he won a medal for the US and everything. THe only thing that upsets me is what a selfish jerk he is.This link may help to dispell the 'jerk' notion...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11429930/
Be sure to read both pages. :wavey:

Also, for those who didn't catch the last Shani Davis interview...
It was on late last night, or maybe I should say VERY early this morning [1:15 A.M. or thereabouts].
He did a very good job in describing what he felt after winning gold. He was positive and came across as very mature. In retrospect, I have to question the timing of the interview, and why he was on so late.
Was this a recap of the earlier program?
If anyone knows, please post. :wavey:

Babolatpro880
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:30 PM
I doubt there were a ton of skaters from the American team who did congratulate him. He purposely alienated himself from the entire US Olympic team. Shown here: ''He also didn’t train with the team, hanging out with the Canadians instead.''

"He swore then he’d never take an opportunity from another skater to have an Olympic moment. That, he finally said Saturday, was why he didn’t skate the pursuit — because the team had brought skaters here for that purpose, and he wouldn’t take that chance away form them as it had been taken from him."

That ^, to me, is a load of crap. He did it to spite the rest of the team, because he knew they couldn't win without him.

Ryan
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:31 PM
so it's not like she didn't care at all.

Shani is still skating as well. And when he won it was the Star Spangled Banner that was played which means that the Gold was won for the USA.


BTW, congrats to Canada for its success in the Olympics. While we in St Paul, MN often make jokes about the Provinces we actually love you guys up there.


I never said Shani didn't care, I was refering to a post that made it seem like Cindy turned down the pursuit team, when in reality she just sat out of the final. Wasn't implying anything about Shani at all.

Ryan
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:34 PM
"So no problem. :wavey: Many posters have already answered the BET ownership question; which was a very sore point to every man and woman of color I know. :mad: We now have no media representation whatsoever. :fiery:
Oh well, such is life I suppose. :shrug: "



Just a question: why do you want them to "humanize" the reports, and then complain that you have no media representation? IMO BET still is focused on African-American's, so I'm just a little confused. :o

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:35 PM
That ^, to me, is a load of crap. He did it to spite the rest of the team, because he knew they couldn't win without him.

Doesn't make sense because if the logic is in spiting the team he takes a gold medal from himself. It would seem odd for a selfish person to turn away from a 'sure gold'.

Babolatpro880
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:35 PM
Just a question: why do you want them to "humanize" the reports, and then complain that you have no media representation? IMO BET still is focused on African-American's, so I'm just a little confused. :o

How exactly can Black Entertainment Television not be focused on African Americans?

Babolatpro880
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Doesn't make sense because if the logic is in spiting the team he takes a gold medal from himself. It would seem odd for a selfish person to turn away from a 'sure gold'.
I didn't say win, so don't put sure gold in quotation marks like it's something that I said. I don't even think the US made it out of the quarterfinals without him, and they would've gone farther if he skated. Period.

StarDuvallGrant
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:39 PM
I didn't say win, so don't put sure gold in quotation marks like it's something that I said. I don't even think the US made it out of the quarterfinals without him, and they would've gone farther if he skated. Period.


The sure gold was in reference to Chad Hedrick's words on the US having the gold if Shani participated. It fit in rather well with my response.

griffin
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:45 PM
If Hedrick had done what Shani did youwouldn't be hearing all this controversy...


If you mean putting his own goals above those of his teammates, Hedrick already did, imo.

He's basically pissed because Davis not skating cost HIM a shot at a 5-medal sweep; cost him HIS goal. That's doing exactly what he's accusing Davis of doing.

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:49 PM
It is only natural to take more notice when someone different comes into a sport. Your words are sad and seemingly filled with anger (why?) but probably a lot of what he had to go through all through this white sport that didn't want to take notice of change.

oh no, not at all, no anger here
sure, hurts that he's been beating our asses, lol
but no, nothing but respect for this man

he's a great athlete
skinny ass bugger, and ugliest style ever
but he's got dedication
and that's what you need, that's what wins you medals

i just don't think ppl should make a big deal out of the fact he's black
he's human, that's all that matters
does look kinda funky in a speedskating suit though ;)

so, for all you who thought i was bashing shani
or black people in general
sorry it came out wrong

and congratz to Shani and his big example, Erben Wennemars
(bronze medalist, 2004 world sprint champion, whose pic is on shani's fridge :D)

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:50 PM
and how many idiots came in to post nonsense without reading the thread first? i can think of one. :)

read post 202
then be quiet
:)

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:51 PM
I doubt there were a ton of skaters from the American team who did congratulate him. He purposely alienated himself from the entire US Olympic team. Shown here: ''He also didn’t train with the team, hanging out with the Canadians instead.''

"He swore then he’d never take an opportunity from another skater to have an Olympic moment. That, he finally said Saturday, was why he didn’t skate the pursuit — because the team had brought skaters here for that purpose, and he wouldn’t take that chance away form them as it had been taken from him."

That ^, to me, is a load of crap. He did it to spite the rest of the team, because he knew they couldn't win without him.Try going back to read what's already been posted. You'll gain a ton of insight as to how Shani and his mother were treated all the way back to the 2002 OLYMPICS, and why they were not welcomed to practice with team :rolleyes: America.

ampers&
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:53 PM
wow...all this negativity because a black guy won a gold medal in a white dominated sport. :help:

PaulieM
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:54 PM
I doubt there were a ton of skaters from the American team who did congratulate him. He purposely alienated himself from the entire US Olympic team. Shown here: ''He also didn’t train with the team, hanging out with the Canadians instead.''
perhaps he trained with the canadians because he trains in canada regularly and knows those guys well? i dunno, just a thought.


That ^, to me, is a load of crap. He did it to spite the rest of the team, because he knew they couldn't win without him.
i'd really love to know how you know that? :rolleyes: that's totally proposterous, it's about as reasonable as me saying that hedrick wanted davis to skate so badly because if they won the medal in pursuit and tired davis out at the same time, that improved his chances of gold in the 1000, one step closer to those 5 golds he wanted. i mean seriously, i think you're reaching there.
is there a reason you're dying to think that davis is the only one is the wrong here? it's perfectly possible that several people could have acted differently to perhaps arrive at a more desireable outcome for everyone. :shrug:

PaulieM
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:57 PM
read post 202
then be quiet
:)
yes because a post that was posted much earlier was clearly in response to something you just posted a minute ago. :rolleyes: your original post contributed nothing useful to the discussion and my evaluation of that post still stands. :)

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:59 PM
yes because a post that was posted much earlier was clearly in response to something you just posted a minute ago. :rolleyes: your original post contributed nothing useful to the discussion and my evaluation of that post still stands. :)

then i still think you're a bit of a git :hatoff:

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 08:59 PM
"So no problem. :wavey: Many posters have already answered the BET ownership question; which was a very sore point to every man and woman of color I know. :mad: We now have no media representation whatsoever. :fiery:
Oh well, such is life I suppose. :shrug: "



Just a question: why do you want them to "humanize" the reports, and then complain that you have no media representation? IMO BET still is focused on African-American's, so I'm just a little confused. :oTell ya what...
Let's take your question and turn it back on you. Why would you NOT want to 'humanize' the reports? What are you afraid of?
Also, BET is White owned, white driven, and modeled in a why as to not offend whites.
Do. you. un-der-stand n o w.
If you don't then there's no explaining it to you because you simply refuse to see it any other way. :shrug:

PaulieM
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:01 PM
then i still think you're a bit of a git :hatoff:
you're entitled to that. just like i'm entitled to think coming into a thread and saying the only reason posters care about the topic is because the guy is black is a comment that intended to be nothing other than offensive. your 2nd post was perfectly reasonable and i agree with it, but the first was still ignorant and obnoxious. :)

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:03 PM
you're entitled to that. just like i'm entitled to think coming into a thread and saying the only reason posters care about the topic is because the guy is black is a comment that intended to be nothing other than offensive. your 2nd post was perfectly reasonable and i agree with it, but the first was still ignorant and obnoxious. :)

i do think that ppl who know nothing about speedskating
shouldn't be glory hunters and love shani just cause he's black
not saying anyone in here is like that
but i just feel that way

ico4498
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:04 PM
why jeopardize your chances in the event you specifically trained for (and your best chance to medal) ... ???

and isn't asking a team mate to put their goal second to yours whats really selfish???

a bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

PaulieM
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:05 PM
i do think that ppl who know nothing about speedskating
shouldn't be glory hunters and love shani just cause he's black
not saying anyone in here is like that
but i just feel that way
well i agree that people shouldn't love him just because he's black. but that's not what it seemed you were saying from your post, that's all. :)

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:05 PM
oh no, not at all, no anger here
sure, hurts that he's been beating our asses, lol
but no, nothing but respect for this man

he's a great athlete
skinny ass bugger, and ugliest style ever
but he's got dedication
and that's what you need, that's what wins you medals

i just don't think ppl should make a big deal out of the fact he's black
he's human, that's all that matters
does look kinda funky in a speedskating suit though ;)

so, for all you who thought i was bashing shani
or black people in general
sorry it came out wrong

and congratz to Shani and his big example, Erben Wennemars
(bronze medalist, 2004 world sprint champion, whose pic is on shani's fridge :D) :eek: :eek: Wow!

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:08 PM
:eek: :eek: Wow!


funky in a good way
and his technique is ugly
but efficient :yeah:
and he is skinny..but again, who cares, works for him :yeah:

-edit-
so i say all these good things
and you have to ppick out the 2 lines that ppl might take the wrong way?
why is that? i don't get that :shrug:

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:10 PM
i do think that ppl who know nothing about speedskating
shouldn't be glory hunters and love shani just cause he's black
not saying anyone in here is like that
but i just feel that wayJust out of curiosity...
What's there to know about Speed Skating?
You skate fast, you win.
You skate slow, you lose.
:lol: :lol:
This ain't rocket science. :shrug:
However, if you're talking about relay racing, then okay.
But aren't we talking about a two man race here?

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Just out of curiosity...
What's there to know about Speed Skating?
You skate fast, you win.
You skate slow, you lose.
:lol: :lol:
This ain't rocket science. :shrug:
However, if you're talking about relay racing, then okay.
But aren't we talking about a two man race here?

if you don't understand what i mean, i can't explain it to you
but that's cool, everybody has their own things
speedskating is one of my passions
and for me it's more then just ppl racing
not a 2 man race by the way

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:18 PM
funky in a good way
and his technique is ugly
but efficient :yeah:
and he is skinny..but again, who cares, works for him :yeah:

-edit-
so i say all these good things
and you have to ppick out the 2 lines that ppl might take the wrong way?
why is that? i don't get that :shrug:Are you serious? :lol:
Oh my goodness! :lol:
You are the one who wrote 'ugly', 'skinny', 'funky', and you want ME to explain why I posted a damn smilie!? :haha:

if you don't understand what i mean, i can't explain it to you
but that's cool, everybody has their own things
speedskating is one of my passions
and for me it's more then just ppl racing
not a 2 man race by the wayIf it's not too much trouble.
I'm always interested in learning more. :cool:

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:31 PM
If it's not too much trouble.
I'm always interested in learning more. :cool:

There's a speedskating thread flaoting around in Non Tennis
learn
enjoy

I g2g, got work in the morning, early

:wavey:

mandy7
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:32 PM
one more thing before i go to bed
Chad H. is a prick!

brickhousesupporter
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:46 PM
If you mean putting his own goals above those of his teammates, Hedrick already did, imo.

He's basically pissed because Davis not skating cost HIM a shot at a 5-medal sweep; cost him HIS goal. That's doing exactly what he's accusing Davis of doing.

Like I told Rocketta, would you guys stop making sense....... :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: it ruins the fun of the thread! :fiery:

Rocketta
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:50 PM
Like I told Rocketta, would you guys stop making sense....... :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: it ruins the fun of the thread! :fiery:

pffft, you're a bossy one aren't you? :rolleyes:

btw, check your reps and answer questions! :wavey:

brickhousesupporter
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:53 PM
pffft, you're a bossy one aren't you? :rolleyes:

btw, check your reps and answer questions! :wavey:

Ok will do....my bad!!!!! :sad:

RVD
Feb 20th, 2006, 09:58 PM
one more thing before i go to bed
Chad H. is a prick!:haha: Glad we agree. :wavey:
And I'll try to locate that speed skating thread. :)

kabuki
Feb 20th, 2006, 10:16 PM
That's one thing that bugs me about fags...I'm an American above all else...but the majority of fags here in America that I know consider themselves to be a fag above everything else. It's quite bizarre to me to think that way, and I get ostracized a lot...but I'll be okay...and I'm sure this skater dude will be , too! :wavey:

Babe. We were discussing how groups are perceived, not how groups perceive themselves.

Sheesh.

drake3781
Feb 20th, 2006, 10:54 PM
I'm just gonna say that once the black/white topic came up, then dominated this thread, that's when I backed out. I find myself doing that a lot around here. Any time a mix of black and white people are involved in some type of issue, we get a group of people in the membership coming into the thread and insisting that the reason such and such happened such and such a way is that the person is black, and the white people have certain expectations of the black person, and they would never have those expectations of a white person. Instead of debating the issue on the merits of the issue. Then in a manner of speaking, high-fiving each other for agreeing wtih them, forming a tight-knit circle to congratulate each other on making the latest and best comments. I'm sure there are bad reps going around as well, to those who disagree, and good reps to enforce the behavior. Sure you can go ahead and continue to do this (and I know you will) but I just want to let you know that it is a big turnoff for some people, I'm sure of all races, and in the end you lose by doing this. Why? Because some people see the pattern repeating itself, and want to stay away because it is off-point and unproductive. Then you miss the input of this entire segment of the population. I know the typical response to that is " who cares about their opinion" or "they are naysayers just ignore them" but you have to understand how you are truly losing the ability to listen and increase your understanding by continuing to perpetuate this kind of behavior. I actually like most of the posters that I know :wavey: , that do this thing, when they post in other topics. But whenever it is something with at least one black person and one white person in real life, then I can count on this same group of people that I usually like turning into rabid dogs going for the throat, pack behavior, it's like a microchip is planted in your heads and you can be controlled with it. This is not to say that those same people who now avoid these threads would not be willing to discuss/debate issues where race truly is an issue or at the heart of it. I for example would be happy to, I am one of the most liberal and open-minded people you will meet and my life decisions and experience in race relations might be of interest. One thing that is very clear is different people approach these issues with their own perspectives, but if you are only here to debate your side and not learn from other perspectives then it's your loss. Only people who listen and learn will come out ahead in this world. Watch those tallk shows.. the people with problems who only want to speak and yell and argue that they are right, ususally with very ugly attitudes, are never gonna learn, never gonna get ahead. But every once in a while you see a guest who understands that it's a gift to have the support of people who can give good advice and they really do listen and you can see that the guest has gotten good information and changed her perspecitive and might do things differently after the show.

I know this is not gonna change because it's apparently just too fun and rewarding to stir these issues up this way. I can actually "feel" the high it gives you. But I just had to say it anyway. And that's why you'll always see me ducking out when an interesting thread gets taken over this way.

Tennis Fool
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:15 PM
Another Canadian Tanith Belbin who is an iceskater got American
citizenship on New Year's Eve in order to skate for the USA in ice dancing. Nobody called her unpatriotic and, again, there was no controversy whatsoever.

Actually she did get a lot of flack from a group of fellow ice skaters (I want to say the US group in second behind them in the ice dance competition). It just hasn't been raised at the Olympics, but it did make an article in the New York Times.

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:18 PM
SHANI DAVIS MAKES HISTORY AT WINTER OLYMPICS: First black athlete to win individual gold ruffles feathers en route to victory.

*So what’s the real story behind the first African American Olympic speedskating gold medalist Shani Davis, his devoted mother and their collective cold shoulder toward U.S. Speedskating?


After the 23-year-old repped Chicago’s South Side Saturday (Feb. 18) by winning the 1,000-meter speedskating event and entered record books as the first black athlete to claim an individual gold medal in Winter Olympic history – Davis showed little initial emotion after it became apparent he had won the event, and followed it up with an awkwardly-cold interview to NBC’s Melissa Stark. Why all the drama?


In a nutshell, Davis and his mother, Cherie, have issues with U.S. Speedskating dating back to his early years with the team. Cherie believes the organization did things to sabotage the success of her only child because of his skin color. The organization vehemently denies her allegations.


As a result of their long-running feud with U.S. Speedskating, Davis doesn't train with the national program, and frequently voices his opinion about a lack of marketing opportunities. He is also more than happy to let his mother voice her opinion of the organization – which she does willingly and often.


Davis has always had to battle haters who joked about his love of the sport. As folks in his neighborhood worshipped the Bears, the White Sox and Michael Jordan’s Bulls, Davis was into Bonnie Blair, and proudly wore a sweatshirt bearing the face of speedskating’s most famous female champion. Needless to say, he was teased quite a bit. The sport’s uniform, a tight-fitting body suit, didn’t help matters - and neither did the sport’s domination by Caucasians.

Davis said he would tell his childhood naysayers, “Maybe I can be the Michael Jordan of speedskating."


On the flipside, Davis said he received constant ill-will from white folks who didn’t think too much of him competing in the sport. He says hate-filled messages were sent to his personal Web site — "people saying they hoped I would fall, break my leg, using the n-word," he said.


As for his current Olympics run, much drama has been made over Davis’ decision not to compete in the team pursuit competition, and instead focus all of his energy on winning the individual races – such as Saturday’s 1000-meter and tomorrow’s 1500 meter race (Feb. 21). Davis’ choice to forgo the team sport has some critics denouncing the move as selfish. Former speedskating champion Eric Heiden said Davis was “not being a team player.”

There is also a nasty rivalry going on with U.S. teammate Chad Hedrick, whose time Davis clobbered Saturday en route to the gold medal. Hedrick has criticized Davis’ decision to forgo the team pursuit because it took away a great source of speed. The team was eventually knocked out by Italy in the quarterfinals. According to reports, Hedrick believed the team would’ve won with Davis in the lineup. The loss left Hedrick short of his goal to go after Heiden’s record of five gold medals at Lake Placid.


Throughout his time at the Olympics, Hedrick has been bombarded with questions about his rivalry with Davis. After Davis’ win on Saturday, reporters asked Hedrick if he was at least happy for the guy.

"Shani skated fast today," Hedrick said. "That's about all I have to say about that."


Davis will face Hedrick Tuesday night in the 1500 meter race, an event Davis dominated until Hedrick snatched away a world record. Sporting a Chicago White Sox cap following Saturday’s victory, a reporter asked Davis if he will specifically go after Hedrick’s record during the race.

"I'm not trying to beat Chad. I'm trying to beat everyone," he replied.

Davis’ breaking of racial barriers in the sport was downplayed when asked about it by reporters after Saturday’s performance. "It's a breakthrough," Davis said, "but it's what people make of it."


He did, however, take note of the hard work that led to his place atop the medal stand.

"If you put your mind to it and you believe it, you can achieve it," he said. "You cannot give up — even if the road is a tough road."

http://eurweb.com/story/eur24929.cfm

And that's the Olympic spirit! :D

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:20 PM
Babe. We were discussing how groups are perceived, not how groups perceive themselves.

Sheesh.

Okay, I went back and re-read most of the posts and I got that this time around. I totally missed that the first time. What can I say? However, I still stand by what I said. ;)

Babolatpro880
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:23 PM
Actually she did get a lot of flack from a group of fellow ice skaters (I want to say the US group in second behind them in the ice dance competition). It just hasn't been raised at the Olympics, but it did make an article in the New York Times.
Gregory and Pethukov? Because that would be ridiculous if it's true since Pethukov was Russian and just received his American citizenship around a year ago I think, but it could be longer.

There was one other American team, I can't remember the girl's name, but the guy's name is O'Meara, maybe it was them?

Diesel
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:25 PM
I'm just gonna say that once the black/white topic came up, then dominated this thread, that's when I backed out. I find myself doing that a lot around here. Any time a mix of black and white people are involved in some type of issue, we get a group of people in the membership coming into the thread and insisting that the reason such and such happened such and such a way is that the person is black, and the white people have certain expectations of the black person, and they would never have those expectations of a white person. Instead of debating the issue on the merits of the issue. Then in a manner of speaking, high-fiving each other for agreeing wtih them, forming a tight-knit circle to congratulate each other on making the latest and best comments. I'm sure there are bad reps going around as well, to those who disagree, and good reps to enforce the behavior. Sure you can go ahead and continue to do this (and I know you will) but I just want to let you know that it is a big turnoff for some people, I'm sure of all races, and in the end you lose by doing this. Why? Because some people see the pattern repeating itself, and want to stay away because it is off-point and unproductive. Then you miss the input of this entire segment of the population. I know the typical response to that is " who cares about their opinion" or "they are naysayers just ignore them" but you have to understand how you are truly losing the ability to listen and increase your understanding by continuing to perpetuate this kind of behavior. I actually like most of the posters that I know :wavey: , that do this thing, when they post in other topics. But whenever it is something with at least one black person and one white person in real life, then I can count on this same group of people that I usually like turning into rabid dogs going for the throat, pack behavior, it's like a microchip is planted in your heads and you can be controlled with it. This is not to say that those same people who now avoid these threads would not be willing to discuss/debate issues where race truly is an issue or at the heart of it. I for example would be happy to, I am one of the most liberal and open-minded people you will meet and my life decisions and experience in race relations might be of interest. One thing that is very clear is different people approach these issues with their own perspectives, but if you are only here to debate your side and not learn from other perspectives then it's your loss. Only people who listen and learn will come out ahead in this world. Watch those tallk shows.. the people with problems who only want to speak and yell and argue that they are right, ususally with very ugly attitudes, are never gonna learn, never gonna get ahead. But every once in a while you see a guest who understands that it's a gift to have the support of people who can give good advice and they really do listen and you can see that the guest has gotten good information and changed her perspecitive and might do things differently after the show.

I know this is not gonna change because it's apparently just too fun and rewarding to stir these issues up this way. I can actually "feel" the high it gives you. But I just had to say it anyway. And that's why you'll always see me ducking out when an interesting thread gets taken over this way.


Can I ask what you brought to this discussion? What did you share that would help someone see your or another perspective? Did you try to understand another person's perspective or did you just stand on the outside, disagree and then come up with this piece? Because if you didn't bring anything and didn't take anything away your ducking out on an event where other people actually read different sides, they may not have all agreed, but different sides were expressed, your ducking out has as much impact as the zero you brought in. I guess you can pat yourself on the back for that accomplishment.

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:30 PM
it did make an article in the New York Times.


Link?

I do not recall reading anything like it but, then, ice dancing is not my cup o' tea. Any articles in Canadian newspapers?

Rocketta
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:39 PM
Can I ask what you brought to this discussion? What did you share that would help someone see your or another perspective? Did you try to understand another person's perspective or did you just stand on the outside, disagree and then come up with this piece? Because if you didn't bring anything and didn't take anything away your ducking out on an event where other people actually read different sides, they may not have all agreed, but different sides were expressed, your ducking out has as much impact as the zero you brought in. I guess you can pat yourself on the back for that accomplishment.

he brought neg reps with zero comments in them. ;)

and for the record, I for one can't worry about other posters feelings about wanting to discuss race....sorry. :shrug:

The double standard how the media treated Shani is glaringly obvious if you compare it to how they treated that pompous vain Chad. Some people really and truly need to rationalize everything so they can feel better. I don't get it.

cheesestix
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:40 PM
it did make an article in the New York Times.


Link?

I do not recall reading anything like it but, then, ice dancing is not my cup o' tea. Any articles in Canadian newspapers?

I think you need a membership to read the article, but here's the link:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40C11F634540C738DDDA80894DE4044 82

"OLYMPICS; Citizenship Of Dancer Causes Stir"

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:46 PM
I'm just gonna say that once the black/white topic came up, then dominated this thread, that's when I backed out. I find myself doing that a lot around here. Any time a mix of black and white people are involved in some type of issue, we get a group of people in the membership coming into the thread and insisting that the reason such and such happened such and such a way is that the person is black, and the white people have certain expectations of the black person, and they would never have those expectations of a white person. Instead of debating the issue on the merits of the issue. Then in a manner of speaking, high-fiving each other for agreeing wtih them, forming a tight-knit circle to congratulate each other on making the latest and best comments. I'm sure there are bad reps going around as well, to those who disagree, and good reps to enforce the behavior. Sure you can go ahead and continue to do this (and I know you will) but I just want to let you know that it is a big turnoff for some people, I'm sure of all races, and in the end you lose by doing this. Why? Because some people see the pattern repeating itself, and want to stay away because it is off-point and unproductive. Then you miss the input of this entire segment of the population. I know the typical response to that is " who cares about their opinion" or "they are naysayers just ignore them" but you have to understand how you are truly losing the ability to listen and increase your understanding by continuing to perpetuate this kind of behavior. I actually like most of the posters that I know :wavey: , that do this thing, when they post in other topics. But whenever it is something with at least one black person and one white person in real life, then I can count on this same group of people that I usually like turning into rabid dogs going for the throat, pack behavior, it's like a microchip is planted in your heads and you can be controlled with it. This is not to say that those same people who now avoid these threads would not be willing to discuss/debate issues where race truly is an issue or at the heart of it. I for example would be happy to, I am one of the most liberal and open-minded people you will meet and my life decisions and experience in race relations might be of interest. One thing that is very clear is different people approach these issues with their own perspectives, but if you are only here to debate your side and not learn from other perspectives then it's your loss. Only people who listen and learn will come out ahead in this world. Watch those tallk shows.. the people with problems who only want to speak and yell and argue that they are right, ususally with very ugly attitudes, are never gonna learn, never gonna get ahead. But every once in a while you see a guest who understands that it's a gift to have the support of people who can give good advice and they really do listen and you can see that the guest has gotten good information and changed her perspecitive and might do things differently after the show.

I know this is not gonna change because it's apparently just too fun and rewarding to stir these issues up this way. I can actually "feel" the high it gives you. But I just had to say it anyway. And that's why you'll always see me ducking out when an interesting thread gets taken over this way.

But by you "ducking out", if what say is true, then the "tight-knit circle" you describe "wins" for lack of a better term...standing pat and relaying your ideas and thoughts is really the only way to go. Quitting because you're frustrated accomplishes nothing either. Believe in what you say and never apologize for believing it (unless, of course, you change your view). :angel:

Oh, and my god don't ever let a little red dot on your reputation board stop you from saying what you feel! That would be just plain ol' :retard: Now buck up, suck it up, and post! :wavey:

Tennis Fool
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Gregory and Pethukov? Because that would be ridiculous if it's true since Pethukov was Russian and just received his American citizenship around a year ago I think, but it could be longer.

There was one other American team, I can't remember the girl's name, but the guy's name is O'Meara, maybe it was them?
Ok, I was wrong. I couldn't get the NY Times article but here is another article that explains the same thing:


http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/olympics/bal-sp.oly.advance17feb17,0,3131112.story?coll=bal-sports-olympics

Ice Dancing

For Belbin, dance of politics



By Randy Harvey and Jeff Barker
Sun Reporters

February 17, 2006

TURIN, Italy -- Like most U.S. athletes who attended last Friday's opening ceremony, Tanith Belbin and Ben Agosto met first lady Laura Bush. Unlike most of the athletes, Belbin and Bush had some politics to discuss.
"It certainly was an honor for her to be so familiar with my case and my citizenship situation," Belbin said later. "She referenced that when she spoke with us and she's extremely supportive."

Belbin, 21, and Agosto 24, are one of the best ice dancing teams ever to represent the United States. But they were nervous as recently as December about whether they would be here for the Winter Olympics.

Their apprehension had nothing to do with whether they would be good enough at the national championships the next month in St. Louis, where the U.S. team would be selected. They were two-time defending champions and had finished second in the world championships in 2005, the first U.S. ice dancers to win a medal at that level in 20 years.

It had everything to do with political machinations on Capitol Hill.

The Canadian-born Belbin, who has lived in the United States since 1998 and applied for citizenship two years later, would not have had U.S. citizenship in time for the Games without an amendment attached to a spending bill by Sen. Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat. Belbin and Agosto train in Detroit.

Levin said the bill, which affected aliens of extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, business and athletics, was needed because Belbin and others were unfairly penalized because they sought citizenship at a time when their cases moved more slowly than those applying today.

In a news release, Levin said he was attempting to "correct an absurdity in the law." But the legislation did not follow a smooth path. As it neared approval, another ice dancer's family wrote a letter to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a New York Democrat, and Rep. James T. Walsh, a New York Republican.

The parents of the other skater, identified by ESPN - which obtained a copy of the letter - as David Mitchell, questioned the fairness of Congress providing Belbin's citizenship prospects a critical boost that could cost Mitchell and his partner an Olympic berth.

As a member of the House-Senate committee with jurisdiction over the Belbin amendment, Walsh was in a position to block the legislation, which he did - temporarily.

"He asked for clarification, which kind of put a hold on it," said Dan Gage, Walsh's spokesman. "He wanted more information on what was going on and the impact it was going to have obviously on his former constituent."

Gage declined to identify Mitchell by name, citing privacy considerations. After a day or so, Walsh decided the bill was fair to all concerned and lifted his objections, allowing it to move forward.

The bill passed on Dec. 21. President Bush signed it into law on Dec. 30.

The bill wasn't universally applauded. The Federation for American Immigration Reform linked to a blog by Debbie Schlussel, a political commentator who also serves as a sports attorney and agent, who wrote, "Belbin shouldn't be in the Olympics representing our country. She got special treatment, despite the fact that plenty of hard-working Amerian ice skaters who were born here ... don't get special treatment."

But the U.S. ice dancing community has been supportive. Even Mitchell and his partner, Loren Galler-Rabinowitz, released a statement to ESPN during the national championships that said his mother's letter to Clinton should not be interpreted as a personal attack against Belbin.

"It was no more than an expression of feeling by a loving and supportive parent, something for which no parent should be attacked," the statement said.

Belbin and Agosto, who previously were able to represent the United States even without her citizenship, won the national championships for the third time in St. Louis. Galler-Rabinowitz and Mitchell finished ninth. Only the first three teams earned Olympic berths.

Going into the first phase of the competition tonight, the compulsory dance, Belbin and Agosto are favorites to win the United States' first medal in the event since Colleen O'Connor and James Millns won bronze in 1976.

Belbin said it feels liberating to just be able to concentrate on skating.

"Not having that Plan A-Plan B scenario in our picture any longer is really nice," she said.



randy.harvey@baltsun.com jeff.barker@baltsun.com
Harvey reported from Turin, Barker from Washington.
Copyright © 2006, The Baltimore Sun | Get Sun home delivery

> Get news on your mobile device at www.baltimoresun.com

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:52 PM
you need a membership

Yes, a membership is needed. I'll take your word for it that some controversy took place. But it certainly is not likely that it created much of a stir compared to the hassles Hedrick is causing.

kabuki
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:54 PM
Okay, I went back and re-read most of the posts and I got that this time around. I totally missed that the first time. What can I say? However, I still stand by what I said. ;)

I just had to regulate and make sure you weren't Hedrick-ing me. You know, questioning my patriotism. :p

wta_zuperfann
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:56 PM
TF,


Thanx for that second article. Evidently, the difficulty was re immigration rules. But, was there any difficulty in Canada? Did Canadians call her unpatriotic or selfish?

Rocketta
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:56 PM
Sooooo where are the articles about Mitchell or his mother being unpatriotic? I mean weren't they trying to prevent America from getting a medal?

and

I sooo need to tell my Joao about this new bill as he's a scientist it might help his quest for citizenship. :bounce:

Tennis Fool
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Here's a terrific article that gives a 180 degree different perception of Shani Davis :)


Return to regular view
Shani's showing of spirit
Speedskating: Davis wins 1,000 meters, looks past feud to praise other skaters
- Gwen Knapp
Sunday, February 19, 2006


Turin, Italy -- So this is how the most selfish American Olympian sounds after winning a gold medal. He rattles off a teammate's accomplishments over the last year, cites one of the teammate's split times from memory and then turns poetic about the guy.

"He's like mercury. He just rises,'' Shani Davis said of Joey Cheek, the silver medalist, seated to his left.

Clearly, this was an impostor. The Shani Davis we've heard so much about doesn't blow kisses to fellow Americans. He doesn't even race with them. He races against them.

He allegedly bailed out of the team pursuit, a three-person race added to the Olympics this year, and cost Chad Hedrick a shot at tying Eric Heiden's record of five speedskating gold medals in a single Olympics.

There are two problems with those allegations. One, Davis was never formally part of the team pursuit. He says U.S. speedskating officials asked him to do the race only a week in advance, which didn't give him enough time to adjust to the idea.

Two, Davis always intended to block Hedrick's minuscule chance for five golds. He planned to win the 1,000-meter race, also on the Texan's agenda.

Davis could have skated as many as 12,800 yards extra if he had done the team event and the U.S. reached the finals. Instead, the Americans lost in the quarterfinals, and Davis, on fresh legs, won the 1,000.

In the days in between, he was called unpatriotic, selfish and worse. On his Web site, one poster applied a racial epithet to Davis, the first black man on the U.S. speedskating team. Davis had a lot of answers, most of them sensible, some of them charming. But two competitors offered a more potent defense.

"He's an Olympic champion, so he's right,'' said Erben Wennemars, the Dutchman who won the bronze medal.

"Shani skated fast today. That's all I'll say,'' said Hedrick, who took sixth in the 1,000, finishing 56 one-hundredths of a second behind his nemesis. In the decorum category, he trailed Davis by much, much more.

Asked whether he was happy for his teammates, Hedrick skipped right over the gold medalist. "I'm happy for Joey,'' he said.

He also said: "I came here to be part of a team,'' implicitly denigrating a teammate.

On the whole, this feud is like a divorce. Taking sides seems foolish. No one outside the speedskating world can really know how these two behave when the microphones and notepads vanish. But an athlete's conduct on the Olympic stage means something, and in that respect, Davis made the most remarkable comeback of the 2006 Winter Games.

He said he had chosen to skip the team race not simply because he wanted to protect himself for the 1,000 two days later. Because he qualified for three individual events, he said, he didn't feel right shoving aside the skaters who were chosen specifically for the pursuit. (Davis was not.) Davis went to Salt Lake City as the No. 6 short-track competitor and didn't get to race.

"I'll say this 100 times,'' he said. "... After 2002, when I went to the Olympics but didn't get to skate, I told myself that I would never, ever take someone else's opportunity to skate at an Olympic Games.''

As for Hedrick, he said: "At least he said I skated fast. That's nice.''

After his win, Davis took a victory lap around the oval with Wennemars, who is such an idol to Davis that he taped a picture of the Dutchman to his refrigerator. They joined hands and held arms aloft as they passed the two end zones, where the speedskating fanatics from the Netherlands, dressed in traffic-cone orange, gave them a roaring ovation.

For a while, it appeared that Davis' celebration would include no one from the U.S. team. He slapped a lot of hands along the oval victory lap, and he clung to his good-luck teddy bear. Just as he was finishing, he spotted Cheek in the infield and went in to congratulate him.

"Joey gave me one of the biggest hugs,'' he said, "almost as big as the one my mama gave me.''

Cheek and the other U.S. skaters are the children of this divorce, caught in the middle. They've been asked to explain the sport's ethics to a media horde that knows very little about what they do.

"It's an individual sport,'' Casey FitzRandolph said, and I think that's the mind-set we all have.''

Of course, as Wennemars said, among athletes, winning tends to make someone right. Other than Hedrick's remarks, Davis faced only a few more harsh words. They came from his Dutch hero.

"Shani,'' Wennemars said, "leave the bear at home.''

©2006 San Francisco Chronicle

SelesFan70
Feb 20th, 2006, 11:58 PM
I just had to regulate and make sure you weren't Hedrick-ing me. You know, questioning my patriotism. :p

Oh, heck no! The main reason I love my country is that you CAN disagree and you don't "have" to skate for the team if you don't want to. And you don't have to pledge allegiance to the flag, and you don't have to go to a religious ceremony and worship an invisible allah up the sky, and you can better yourself if you work hard, and...the list goes on and on and on! :bounce:

kabuki
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:01 AM
I'm just gonna say that once the black/white topic came up, then dominated this thread, that's when I backed out. I find myself doing that a lot around here. Any time a mix of black and white people are involved in some type of issue, we get a group of people in the membership coming into the thread and insisting that the reason such and such happened such and such a way is that the person is black, and the white people have certain expectations of the black person, and they would never have those expectations of a white person. Instead of debating the issue on the merits of the issue. Then in a manner of speaking, high-fiving each other for agreeing wtih them, forming a tight-knit circle to congratulate each other on making the latest and best comments. I'm sure there are bad reps going around as well, to those who disagree, and good reps to enforce the behavior. Sure you can go ahead and continue to do this (and I know you will) but I just want to let you know that it is a big turnoff for some people, I'm sure of all races, and in the end you lose by doing this. Why? Because some people see the pattern repeating itself, and want to stay away because it is off-point and unproductive. Then you miss the input of this entire segment of the population. I know the typical response to that is " who cares about their opinion" or "they are naysayers just ignore them" but you have to understand how you are truly losing the ability to listen and increase your understanding by continuing to perpetuate this kind of behavior. I actually like most of the posters that I know :wavey: , that do this thing, when they post in other topics. But whenever it is something with at least one black person and one white person in real life, then I can count on this same group of people that I usually like turning into rabid dogs going for the throat, pack behavior, it's like a microchip is planted in your heads and you can be controlled with it. This is not to say that those same people who now avoid these threads would not be willing to discuss/debate issues where race truly is an issue or at the heart of it. I for example would be happy to, I am one of the most liberal and open-minded people you will meet and my life decisions and experience in race relations might be of interest. One thing that is very clear is different people approach these issues with their own perspectives, but if you are only here to debate your side and not learn from other perspectives then it's your loss. Only people who listen and learn will come out ahead in this world. Watch those tallk shows.. the people with problems who only want to speak and yell and argue that they are right, ususally with very ugly attitudes, are never gonna learn, never gonna get ahead. But every once in a while you see a guest who understands that it's a gift to have the support of people who can give good advice and they really do listen and you can see that the guest has gotten good information and changed her perspecitive and might do things differently after the show.

I know this is not gonna change because it's apparently just too fun and rewarding to stir these issues up this way. I can actually "feel" the high it gives you. But I just had to say it anyway. And that's why you'll always see me ducking out when an interesting thread gets taken over this way.

Gee. as far as I'm concerned, we were all being pretty civil (esp. by wtaworld standards) and just having a discussion. Oops. :p

kabuki
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:02 AM
Oh, heck no! The main reason I love my country is that you CAN disagree and you don't "have" to skate for the team if you don't want to. And you don't have to pledge allegiance to the flag, and you don't have to go to a religious ceremony and worship an invisible allah up the sky, and you can better yourself if you work hard, and...the list goes on and on and on! :bounce:

Gosh you're just so damn earnest. :p

SelesFan70
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:04 AM
Gosh you're just so damn earnest. :p

My eyes teared up as I wrote that post. And I'm not kidding. :angel: I'm just a big softie! :hug:

Rocketta
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:05 AM
Here's a terrific article that gives a 180 degree different perception of Shani Davis :)


Return to regular view
Shani's showing of spirit
Speedskating: Davis wins 1,000 meters, looks past feud to praise other skaters
- Gwen Knapp
Sunday, February 19, 2006


Turin, Italy -- So this is how the most selfish American Olympian sounds after winning a gold medal. He rattles off a teammate's accomplishments over the last year, cites one of the teammate's split times from memory and then turns poetic about the guy.

"He's like mercury. He just rises,'' Shani Davis said of Joey Cheek, the silver medalist, seated to his left.

Clearly, this was an impostor. The Shani Davis we've heard so much about doesn't blow kisses to fellow Americans. He doesn't even race with them. He races against them.

He allegedly bailed out of the team pursuit, a three-person race added to the Olympics this year, and cost Chad Hedrick a shot at tying Eric Heiden's record of five speedskating gold medals in a single Olympics.

There are two problems with those allegations. One, Davis was never formally part of the team pursuit. He says U.S. speedskating officials asked him to do the race only a week in advance, which didn't give him enough time to adjust to the idea.

Two, Davis always intended to block Hedrick's minuscule chance for five golds. He planned to win the 1,000-meter race, also on the Texan's agenda.

Davis could have skated as many as 12,800 yards extra if he had done the team event and the U.S. reached the finals. Instead, the Americans lost in the quarterfinals, and Davis, on fresh legs, won the 1,000.

In the days in between, he was called unpatriotic, selfish and worse. On his Web site, one poster applied a racial epithet to Davis, the first black man on the U.S. speedskating team. Davis had a lot of answers, most of them sensible, some of them charming. But two competitors offered a more potent defense.

"He's an Olympic champion, so he's right,'' said Erben Wennemars, the Dutchman who won the bronze medal.

"Shani skated fast today. That's all I'll say,'' said Hedrick, who took sixth in the 1,000, finishing 56 one-hundredths of a second behind his nemesis. In the decorum category, he trailed Davis by much, much more.

Asked whether he was happy for his teammates, Hedrick skipped right over the gold medalist. "I'm happy for Joey,'' he said.

He also said: "I came here to be part of a team,'' implicitly denigrating a teammate.

On the whole, this feud is like a divorce. Taking sides seems foolish. No one outside the speedskating world can really know how these two behave when the microphones and notepads vanish. But an athlete's conduct on the Olympic stage means something, and in that respect, Davis made the most remarkable comeback of the 2006 Winter Games.

He said he had chosen to skip the team race not simply because he wanted to protect himself for the 1,000 two days later. Because he qualified for three individual events, he said, he didn't feel right shoving aside the skaters who were chosen specifically for the pursuit. (Davis was not.) Davis went to Salt Lake City as the No. 6 short-track competitor and didn't get to race.

"I'll say this 100 times,'' he said. "... After 2002, when I went to the Olympics but didn't get to skate, I told myself that I would never, ever take someone else's opportunity to skate at an Olympic Games.''

As for Hedrick, he said: "At least he said I skated fast. That's nice.''

After his win, Davis took a victory lap around the oval with Wennemars, who is such an idol to Davis that he taped a picture of the Dutchman to his refrigerator. They joined hands and held arms aloft as they passed the two end zones, where the speedskating fanatics from the Netherlands, dressed in traffic-cone orange, gave them a roaring ovation.

For a while, it appeared that Davis' celebration would include no one from the U.S. team. He slapped a lot of hands along the oval victory lap, and he clung to his good-luck teddy bear. Just as he was finishing, he spotted Cheek in the infield and went in to congratulate him.

"Joey gave me one of the biggest hugs,'' he said, "almost as big as the one my mama gave me.''

Cheek and the other U.S. skaters are the children of this divorce, caught in the middle. They've been asked to explain the sport's ethics to a media horde that knows very little about what they do.

"It's an individual sport,'' Casey FitzRandolph said, and I think that's the mind-set we all have.''

Of course, as Wennemars said, among athletes, winning tends to make someone right. Other than Hedrick's remarks, Davis faced only a few more harsh words. They came from his Dutch hero.

"Shani,'' Wennemars said, "leave the bear at home.''

©2006 San Francisco Chronicle

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Tennis Fool
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:07 AM
TF,


Thanx for that second article. Evidently, the difficulty was re immigration rules. But, was there any difficulty in Canada? Did Canadians call her unpatriotic or selfish?
I don't think so, but from what I understand, she is from Windsor, which is directly across the river from Detroit. I grew up in Michigan (the figure skating capital of the world :rolleyes: ) so Canadians may have just shrugged off this one.

RVD
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:07 AM
I'm just gonna say that once the black/white topic came up, then dominated this thread, that's when I backed out. I find myself doing that a lot around here. Any time a mix of black and white people are involved in some type of issue, we get a group of people in the membership coming into the thread and insisting that the reason such and such happened such and such a way is that the person is black, and the white people have certain expectations of the black person, and they would never have those expectations of a white person. Instead of debating the issue on the merits of the issue. Then in a manner of speaking, high-fiving each other for agreeing wtih them, forming a tight-knit circle to congratulate each other on making the latest and best comments. I'm sure there are bad reps going around as well, to those who disagree, and good reps to enforce the behavior. Sure you can go ahead and continue to do this (and I know you will) but I just want to let you know that it is a big turnoff for some people, I'm sure of all races, and in the end you lose by doing this. Why? Because some people see the pattern repeating itself, and want to stay away because it is off-point and unproductive. Then you miss the input of this entire segment of the population. I know the typical response to that is " who cares about their opinion" or "they are naysayers just ignore them" but you have to understand how you are truly losing the ability to listen and increase your understanding by continuing to perpetuate this kind of behavior. I actually like most of the posters that I know :wavey: , that do this thing, when they post in other topics. But whenever it is something with at least one black person and one white person in real life, then I can count on this same group of people that I usually like turning into rabid dogs going for the throat, pack behavior, it's like a microchip is planted in your heads and you can be controlled with it. This is not to say that those same people who now avoid these threads would not be willing to discuss/debate issues where race truly is an issue or at the heart of it. I for example would be happy to, I am one of the most liberal and open-minded people you will meet and my life decisions and experience in race relations might be of interest. One thing that is very clear is different people approach these issues with their own perspectives, but if you are only here to debate your side and not learn from other perspectives then it's your loss. Only people who listen and learn will come out ahead in this world. Watch those tallk shows.. the people with problems who only want to speak and yell and argue that they are right, ususally with very ugly attitudes, are never gonna learn, never gonna get ahead. But every once in a while you see a guest who understands that it's a gift to have the support of people who can give good advice and they really do listen and you can see that the guest has gotten good information and changed her perspecitive and might do things differently after the show.

I know this is not gonna change because it's apparently just too fun and rewarding to stir these issues up this way. I can actually "feel" the high it gives you. But I just had to say it anyway. And that's why you'll always see me ducking out when an interesting thread gets taken over this way.Let it be known that RVD values and respects the views of drake3781.
Now shut the hell up! :lol:


I'm kidding drake. ;)
But I do value your views and do respect them.
(*whispers* I even value cheesestix's, but don't say anything ;) )

PaulieM
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:23 AM
that's a nice article TF, i read that the other day. there have been several nice articles, and some balanced ones as well but i can't help but be a bit annoyed that some of the same people writing positive stories about him now were all over the shani is selfish and unpatriotic bandwagon a few days ago with "davis shows there is an I in team(one actually said "i in turin" which was kind of stupid:tape: )" and headlines of the like when he didn't have a gold medal to his name. and some i'm sure will jump on this so called rivalry with whoever wins the 1500. but i guess that's just how things go with the media. :shrug:

RVD
Feb 21st, 2006, 12:26 AM
Here's a terrific article that gives a 180 degree different perception of Shani Davis :)


Return to regular view
Shani's showing of spirit
Speedskating: Davis wins 1,000 meters, looks past feud to praise other skaters
- Gwen Knapp
Sunday, February 19, 2006


Turin, Italy -- So this is how the most selfish American Olympian sounds after winning a gold medal. He rattles off a teammate's accomplishments over the last year, cites one of the teammate's split times from memory and then turns poetic about the guy.

"He's like mercury. He just rises,'' Shani Davis said of Joey Cheek, the silver medalist, seated to his left.

Clearly, this was an impostor. The Shani Davis we've heard so much about doesn't blow kisses to fellow Americans. He doesn't even race with them. He races against them.

He allegedly bailed out of the team pursuit, a three-person race added to the Olympics this year, and cost Chad Hedrick a shot at tying Eric Heiden's record of five speedskating gold medals in a single Olympics.

There are two problems with those allegations. One, Davis was never formally part of the team pursuit. He says U.S. speedskating officials asked him to do the race only a week in advance, which didn't give him enough time to adjust to the idea.

Two, Davis always intended to block Hedrick's minuscule chance for five golds. He planned to win the 1,000-meter race, also on the Texan's agenda.

Davis could have skated as many as 12,800 yards extra if he had done the team event and the U.S. reached the finals. Instead, the Americans lost in the quarterfinals, and Davis, on fresh legs, won the 1,000.

In the days in between, he was called unpatriotic, selfish and worse. On his Web site, one poster applied a racial epithet to Davis, the first black man on the U.S. speedskating team. Davis had a lot of answers, most of them sensible, some of them charming. But two competitors offered a more potent defense.

"He's an Olympic champion, so he's right,'' said Erben Wennemars, the Dutchman who won the bronze medal.

"Shani skated fast today. That's all I'll say,'' said Hedrick, who took sixth in the 1,000, finishing 56 one-hundredths of a second behind his nemesis. In the decorum category, he trailed Davis by much, much more.

Asked whether he was happy for his teammates, Hedrick skipped right over the gold medalist. "I'm happy for Joey,'' he said.

He also said: "I came here to be part of a team,'' implicitly denigrating a teammate.

On the whole, this feud is like a divorce. Taking sides seems foolish. No one outside the speedskating world can really know how these two behave when the microphones and notepads vanish. But an athlete's conduct on the Olympic stage means something, and in that respect, Davis made the most remarkable comeback of the 2006 Winter Games.

He said he had chosen to skip the team race not simply because he wanted to protect himself for the 1,000 two days later. Because he qualified for three individual events, he said, he didn't feel right shoving aside the skaters who were chosen specifically for the pursuit. (Davis was not.) Davis went to Salt Lake City as the No. 6 short-track competitor and didn't get to race.

"I'll say this 100 times,'' he said. "... After 2002, when I went to the Olympics but didn't get to skate, I told myself that I would never, ever take someone else's opportunity to skate at an Olympic Games.''

As for Hedrick, he said: "At least he said I skated fast. That's nice.''

After his win, Davis took a victory lap around the oval with Wennemars, who is such an idol to Davis that he taped a picture of the Dutchman to his refrigerator. They joined hands and held arms aloft as they passed the two end zones, where the speedskating fanatics from the Netherlands, dressed in traffic-cone orange, gave them a roaring ovation.

For a while, it appeared that Davis' celebration would include no one from the U.S. team. He slapped a lot of hands along the oval victory lap, and he clung to his good-luck teddy bear. Just as he was finishing, he spotted Cheek in the infield and went in to congratulate him.

"Joey gave me one of the biggest hugs,'' he said, "almost as big as the one my mama gave me.''

Cheek and the other U.S. skaters are the children of this divorce, caught in the middle. They've been asked to explain the sport's ethics to a media horde that knows very little about what they do.

"It's an individual sport,'' Casey FitzRandolph said, and I think that's the mind-set we all have.''

Of course, as Wennemars said, among athletes, winning tends to make someone right. Other than Hedrick's remarks, Davis faced only a few more harsh words. They came from his Dutch hero.

"Shani,'' Wennemars said, "leave the bear at home.''

©2006 San Francisco Chronicle :worship: This is a great article.
And just as I thought, Cheeks is caught up in the middle. He just seemed like such a kewl guy during interviews. :yeah: Anyway, it's good to know that he and Shani are cool with each other, and that Shani has a hero like Erben Wennemars! That means he's going after him. :lol:

Incidentally, check this out...
http://www.nbcolympics.com/speedskating/5093030/detail.html
Ice makers at the oval have said the ice will be considerably faster than in a World Cup event held last December, hoping some world records will be broken. There just may be a new world record set. :yeah: