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ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:33 PM
The official leader of Muslims of Russia responded to plan of gay-parade in Moscow in May..

He said that "gays have no rights and are disgusting for God and human kind"
In case of gay-parade happening he called on everyone to go and beat them.:"All normal people will do that - Muslims and Orthodox Christians as well"..

He suggested that gays should be "isolated as the Prophet generally ordered to kill them as their practices lead to termination of human kind"..

Another Muslim leader called for stoning gays if they have a parade..

That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you..

http://www.gazeta.ru/2006/02/14/oa_188637.shtml

griffin
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:41 PM
That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you..

http://www.gazeta.ru/2006/02/14/oa_188637.shtml

Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

SelesFan70
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:42 PM
Not surprising? :shrug:

tenn_ace
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:43 PM
Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same... but at least they (e.g. Russian Church) don't call to kill gays

cellophane
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

:lol:

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:47 PM
Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

You don't know what you are talking about, as you are thinking of 10 years ago perhaps.. If you look at Russian show-business now, it is at least 50% gay, and most of people are quite OK with that.. Russia is now 10 times more gay-friendly than it used to be.. Of course, not in Western standards yet, but you can't compeltely change things overnight, and they are already changing faster than you can possibly imagine..

cellophane
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:51 PM
You don't know what you are talking about, as you are thinking of 10 years ago perhaps.. If you look at Russian show-business now, it is at least 50% gay, and most of people are quite OK with that.. Russia is now 10 times more gay-friendly than it used to be.. Of course, not in Western standards yet, but you can't compeltely change things overnight, and they are already changing faster than you can possibly imagine..

I haven't been there in a while (almost 10 years), but I find that a little hard to believe. Who is gay in the show business apart from the likes of Moiseev and Shura? :tape: :tape:

Kart
Feb 14th, 2006, 05:57 PM
That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you..


No. It's the opinion of one man.

Are you going to the parade ys? :D

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:06 PM
No. It's the opinion of one man.

Are you going to the parade ys? :D

a) Most likely I won't be in Moscow in May ( though, Memorial Day long weekend, who knows )
b) I am not gay.

tenn_ace
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:11 PM
a) Most likely I won't be in Moscow in May ( though, Memorial Day long weekend, who knows )
b) I am not gay.

A lot of NOT gays go to parades. So, would you?

Kart
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:11 PM
a) Most likely I won't be in Moscow in May ( though, Memorial Day long weekend, who knows )

b) I am not gay.

I know you're not gay mate. That's not a reason not to go though, I'm sure it'd be a fun time :D.

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:15 PM
I haven't been there in a while (almost 10 years), but I find that a little hard to believe. Who is gay in the show business apart from the likes of Moiseev and Shura? :tape: :tape:

Not necessarily gay people, but openly gay culture.. Verka Serdyuchka, Tatu, Shura.. A lot.. At least my parents are quite unhappy about it.. :lol: But even they are softening.. If you can read Russian, here



http://www.kp.ru/daily/23600/45760/ (http://www.kp.ru/daily/23600/45760/)

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23599.4/45825/

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:18 PM
A lot of NOT gays go to parades. So, would you?

Why not, if it is fun and not indecent..

*JR*
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:22 PM
No wonder Sveta trained @ least since her early teens in Barcelona. :tape:

tenn_ace
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:22 PM
Why not, if it is fun and not indecent..


then what's the point of going if it's not indecenet... all the fun is gone :o

K.U.C.W-R.V
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:36 PM
The thing is, even most 'moderate' Muslims seem to hold views like this. The leader of the thoroughly moderate Muslim Council of Britain is virulently anti-gay (albeit he didnt actually come out & demand homosexuals were beaten/stoned).

I freely admit I don't support gay adoption & I'm still to be convinced about the virtue of gay marriage, but this is just totally outrageous.

Kart
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:40 PM
The thing is, even most 'moderate' Muslims seem to hold views like this. The leader of the thoroughly moderate Muslim Council of Britain is virulently anti-gay (albeit he didnt actually come out & demand homosexuals were beaten/stoned).

I freely admit I don't support gay adoption & I'm still to be convinced about the virtue of gay marriage, but this is just totally outrageous.

Lots of non muslim people have that view as well sadly.

cellophane
Feb 14th, 2006, 06:48 PM
Not necessarily gay people, but openly gay culture.. Verka Serdyuchka, Tatu, Shura.. A lot.. At least my parents are quite unhappy about it.. :lol: But even they are softening.. If you can read Russian, here



http://www.kp.ru/daily/23600/45760/ (http://www.kp.ru/daily/23600/45760/)

http://www.kp.ru/daily/23599.4/45825/

I'm not sure I got this article. :confused: This concern about indecency on stage looks like a bunch of bs.

But Tatu's popularity has to do with scandal and them being good tabloid material (would they be so popular, if it were two guys making out? I doubt it), not because of some sort of wide-spread acceptance of homosexuality? I don't know much about Shura, but, Moiseev was always a laughingstock.

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:05 PM
I'm not sure I got this article. :confused: This concern about indecency on stage looks like a bunch of bs.

It is bs.. :lol: I am not taking it as a bible either.. But they do describe real events, real people, real tendency. When was the last time you've seen any serious Russian pop gala? I am travelling to Moscow every New Year, and New Year TV programs are where everyone is on show, and I can tell - and it is not only my impression - that those programs are getting more and mroe of gay-type content with each year. Many people don't like it, but these days their perception is mostly a lazy "I don't care".. I am of that kind too, Russian gay pop-art annoys me, really.. especially, given that it often takes on transvestite-like images, but if it goes that way, apparently some people like it..

But Tatu's popularity has to do with scandal and them being good tabloid material (would they be so popular, if it were two guys making out? I doubt it), not because of some sort of wide-spread acceptance of homosexuality?


It's still very gay imagery..

I don't know much about Shura, but, Moiseev was always a laughingstock.

He is.. He is an icon too.. :lol: He was the first..

Grachka
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:08 PM
I don't believe Verka Serdyuchka will become the credible figurehead for any gay-rights movement either :tape:

I can't say I see any widespread acceptance of homosexuality in Russia. It might be better than before, but that doesn't make it good.

Sam L
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:11 PM
Muslims. :rolleyes:

DelMonte
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

:tape:

Yes, and I also hear that if you happen to be Jewish or black, Russia is just a lovely place to live. :rolleyes:

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:24 PM
:tape:

Yes, and I also hear that if you happen to be Jewish or black, Russia is just a lovely place to live. :rolleyes:

You are wrong about Jewish. There are of course skinheads or neonazies who would put a sinagogue on fire once in a while, but generally Russian people have no problem with Jews.. Russia has very good relationships with Israel.. Many Russian sportsmen are training in Israel when it is winter..

You are probably somewhat right about Blacks and , generally, dark-skinned people though...Again, it is not anywhere comparable to Muslim-gay relationship, as great majority of Russians have no problems with blacks.. Many Blacks play for Russian professional soccer and basketball teams, and they like it there. There are some people who moved to here from African countries back in Soviet times. Apprently, they prefer living in Russia to living in Africa.. despite the climate..:) It is probably worse to be dark-skinned than black in Russia, as the most unloved people in Russia are representatives from Turk ethnicities from South of Russia, i.e. Chechens.. But that is easily explicable by Chechen terrorism, of course....

cellophane
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:25 PM
It is bs.. :lol: I am not taking it as a bible either.. But they do describe real events, real people, real tendency. When was the last time you've seen any serious Russian pop gala?

Not lately, thankfully. It's a bad circus show. :tape:

I am travelling to Moscow every New Year, and New Year TV programs are where everyone is on show, and I can tell - and it is not only my impression - that those programs are getting more and mroe of gay-type content with each year.

Like half-naked dancers or something or affected drag queens? I don't think the first is gay content... but then I don't know what you mean.

It's still very gay imagery..

Aside from the actual music, tAtU are jerk-off material for men, nothing else. It's hot, because it's 2 girls together. I actually remember some website called "Russian Lesbians against TATU" or something like that. :haha: Their popularity doesn't point to acceptance of homosexuality; it's gimmicky.

He is.. He is an icon too.. :lol: He was the first..

Yeah... but again he is there to laugh at. I think the gay performers of "estrada" ( :o ) are all pretty much lisping drag queens, which is what I guess the general perception of gayness in the Russian population is.

firehorse
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:37 PM
Wtf...!!

Almalyk
Feb 14th, 2006, 07:47 PM
I feel some very tense times ahead... :Scared:

new-york
Feb 14th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

gentenaire
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Yes, whereas the rest of Russia just LOVES them some queers :rolleyes:

I'm sure they love their male figure skaters ;)

Volcana
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:26 PM
That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you.. That's one man from one branch of Islam. There are as many, if not more branches of Islam as there are of Christianity. And in the USA< the people going out and beating up gays are, to the extent they every claim a religious afiliation, almost universally Christian.

I suppose it's eay to condemn the religion practiced by a couple billion people based on the words of one of them, but it doesn't display much intelligence.

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:29 PM
That's one man from one branch of Islam. There are as many, if not more branches of Islam as there are of Christianity.

No. It's the man who represent the second biggest religion in Russia. He is not just another man. He is official leader of Russian Muslims. It's like if Putin would call for gays extermination in Russia, and you would say:"Tthat's just one man from one branch of power in Russia. It's OK. Supreme Court can still overturn it"..

I suppose it's eay to condemn the religion practiced by a couple billion people based on the words of one of them, but it doesn't display much intelligence.

Depends on who is that one of them.

DelMonte
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:35 PM
You are wrong about Jewish. There are of course skinheads or neonazies who would put a sinagogue on fire once in a while, but generally Russian people have no problem with Jews.. Russia has very good relationships with Israel.. Many Russian sportsmen are training in Israel when it is winter..

You are probably somewhat right about Blacks and , generally, dark-skinned people though...Again, it is not anywhere comparable to Muslim-gay relationship, as great majority of Russians have no problems with blacks.. Many Blacks play for Russian professional soccer and basketball teams, and they like it there. There are some people who moved to here from African countries back in Soviet times. Apprently, they prefer living in Russia to living in Africa.. despite the climate..:) It is probably worse to be dark-skinned than black in Russia, as the most unloved people in Russia are representatives from Turk ethnicities from South of Russia, i.e. Chechens.. But that is easily explicable by Chechen terrorism, of course....

We'll just have to disagree about the extent/level/degree of racism against blacks and anti-semitism in Russian then.

dementieva's fan
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:37 PM
You are wrong about Jewish. There are of course skinheads or neonazies who would put a sinagogue on fire once in a while, but generally Russian people have no problem with Jews.. Russia has very good relationships with Israel.. Many Russian sportsmen are training in Israel when it is winter..


http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/17/rabbiattacked.shtml

&lt;A HREF="http://a.tribalfusion.com/h.click/WWKMLKONKQWQKUTOGLIQGNOYJLXLBSIEJMGGKLIJBVPXEPONME OPCMQJOMLEHRDVJMPLNEWKSTQR/http://www.freeiPods.com/a/?x=6231&amp;c=26527334523261" TARGET="_blank"&gt;&lt;IMG SRC=http://cdn5.tribalfusion.com/media/385046/freeipods_120x600_nano_1.gif WIDTH=120 HEIGHT=600 BORDER=0&gt;&lt;/A&gt;

President of the Magen League, Professor and Rabbi Alexander Lakshin was attacked in Moscow on Friday evening, the Interfax news agency reported on Monday citing a source in the Federation of Russian Jewish Communities.

Lakshin, his friend Rabbi Ruven Kuravsky and two brothers of the rabbi’s wife, aged nine and ten, were returning home after visiting friends.

Six or seven young men, aged from 16 to 25, saw the rabbis in an underground crossing on Sushchevsky Val street and began shouting anti-Semitic insults. The rabbis took the children’s hands and separated in an attempt to escape from the attackers.

Lakshin was seriously injured, but his condition is not critical, the agency reported.


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060112/D8F3BA400.html
MOSCOW (AP) - Pogroms and purges of Jews are a thing of the past in Russia, but as women scrubbed the bloodstained floors of Moscow's Chabad Bronnaya synagogue on Thursday, a day after a man burst in and stabbed worshippers, alarm spread over increasingly open anti-Semitism.

Jewish leaders warned official indifference is fueling a wave of hate attacks and called for a crackdown on aggressive nationalist and fascist groups that have mushroomed in recent years. Police should guard outside synagogues and other Jewish sites, they said.

"We expect government and law enforcement agencies to take real measures to ensure this doesn't happen again," Russia's chief rabbi, Berel Lazar, said. "If there is indifference, nothing will change."

Worshippers were somber at the synagogue in downtown Moscow, where the knife-wielding man shouting "I will kill Jews" slashed and stabbed at least eight people before a rabbi's son wrestled him to the ground.

"Until yesterday, I felt completely safe but things have gotten serious now," said Nadav Zavilinsky, a 21-year-old religious student who witnessed the attack.

Among the eight men wounded were an American, an Israeli and a Tajik, chief Moscow prosecutor Anatoly Zuyev said. Four of the victims remained in serious condition Thursday.

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack denounced "this perfidious attack" and said the United States "expresses its sympathy to the wounded and their families." He also said the United States welcomed condemnation of the attack by the Russian government, "including its commitment to an investigation of this crime."

A million Jews live in Russia, according to the Federation of Jewish Communities, as the Jewish community has experienced a revival after a wave of emigration to Israel and other countries before and after the break up of the Soviet Union.

But hundreds of racially motivated attacks, including the occasional desecration of Jewish cemeteries and synagogues, have occurred in recent years in violence aimed at Jews as well as dark-skinned immigrants from former Soviet Central Asia and the Caucasus Mountains region.More than 40 people in Russia were killed in apparently racially motivated attacks last year, according to the Moscow Bureau of Human Rights. The group estimates that Russia is home to some 50,000 skinheads and numerous neo-Nazi organizations.

Rights activists say such groups are emboldened by mild prosecution of hate crimes and they complain that Nazi and other extremist literature is sold freely.

The suspect in Wednesday's attack, identified as Alexander Koptsev, 20, was reading a book about Jews betraying Russia shortly before the assault, his father told the Kommersant daily.

Two men assaulted two rabbis near another synagogue in Moscow in January but were convicted of assault and hooliganism, which carry lesser sentences than hate crimes.

Alla Gerber, head of the Holocaust Foundation, said anti-Semitism persisted within law enforcement ranks despite high-level condemnation.

"I was shocked at what happened yesterday, but not surprised. Anti-Semitism is a traditional problem in Russia, and it is flourishing now in a general climate of xenophobia," Gerber said.

In what was seen as a step forward, President Vladimir Putin acknowledged anti-Semitism as a problem when he attended ceremonies in January marking the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the Auschwitz death camp.

But just before the Auschwitz commemorations, a group of nationalist Russian lawmakers called for an investigation aimed at outlawing all Jewish organizations, accusing Jews of fomenting ethnic hatred.

While the authorities ignored calls by human rights groups to prosecute the legislators, they investigated whether an ancient Jewish text incited religious hatred after a complaint from two nationalist activists.

Later Thursday, Moscow police chief, Vladimir Pronin promised to deploy officers to help protect synagogues. Lazar and Pronin also agreed in a meeting to set up a joint working group to monitor xenophobic propaganda and extremist groups, Lazar's office said in a statement.

The rabbi of the synagogue targeted in Wednesday's attack, Yitzhak Kogan, said Jews in modern Russia face a new threat.

"There is no more anti-Semitism on the state level, as we saw in Soviet times, but instead we have a lot of freedom for anti-Semitic groups in Russia, and the incident yesterday was one of its manifestations," Kogan said.

cellophane
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:41 PM
I'm not surprised at that stuff about anti-semitism.

isabel_aussie
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Such people don't do international opinion on their own religion any good at all, is all I can say :shrug:

Joana
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:52 PM
In case of gay-parade happening he called on everyone to go and beat them.

This was what happened at the first (and so far, the last) gay parade in Belgrade in 2001. And it was a priest who led the mob. The church (Orthodox Christian) didn't back him up but neither did distance itself from his actions.

dementieva's fan
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:57 PM
You are wrong about Jewish. There are of course skinheads or neonazies who would put a sinagogue on fire once in a while, but generally Russian people have no problem with Jews.. Russia has very good relationships with Israel.. Many Russian sportsmen are training in Israel when it is winter..

You are probably somewhat right about Blacks and , generally, dark-skinned people though...Again, it is not anywhere comparable to Muslim-gay relationship, as great majority of Russians have no problems with blacks.. Many Blacks play for Russian professional soccer and basketball teams, and they like it there. There are some people who moved to here from African countries back in Soviet times. Apprently, they prefer living in Russia to living in Africa.. despite the climate..:) It is probably worse to be dark-skinned than black in Russia, as the most unloved people in Russia are representatives from Turk ethnicities from South of Russia, i.e. Chechens.. But that is easily explicable by Chechen terrorism, of course....

So that justifies these attacks? The chechen issue is almost identical to the Kashmir issue in India and quite similar to the Israel-Palesitine conflict, but you don't see people in India and Israel coming out and killing defenseless people... even 9 year old children :eek: . And in the tone you said it, you sounded comfortable and OK with it, shame on you if you think that way

Skinheads find their voice in Russia

AFP , SAINT PETERSBURG
Tuesday, Feb 17, 2004,Page 6

Gosha Makarov is a teenager in Russia's second city of Saint Petersburg who shaves his head, wears heavy boots and abides by a simple motto -- "Russia for Russians."

The 16-year-old belongs to a skinhead gang in the city where racist attacks have increased during the past several years, prompting soul-searching in the former imperial capital that considers itself the country's liberal intellectual center.

In the latest attack, a 9-year-old girl from Tajikistan was stabbed to death in the center of the city last week as she walked home with her father and an 11-year-old cousin. The police have blamed the incident on skinheads.

"The blacks," as people from the former Soviet republics in the Caucasus and Central Asia are derisively called in Russia, are most often the target of skinheads like Makarov.

"It is ridiculous to believe that all people are brothers. Look, they act like Russia is their home," he spat out, pointing to a group of people from the Caucasus chatting outside a metro station.

In a chilling statistic, in a poll following the murder of the Tajik girl, 20 percent of respondents said they "understood" the attack.

"Naturally people said they were `shocked' and `outraged' by this crime, but they also were tolerant toward skinhead ideas," said Roman Mogilevsky, director of the Social Research Agency that conducted the poll.

"The situation is very serious, Saint Petersburgers like most Russians are not immune to racism and nationalism," Mogilevsky said.

"The society does not really put up a front against nationalist and racist ideas in Saint Petersburg, where such crimes are commonplace," he said.

Indeed week's attack was only the latest such incident in the city.

In May, a group of German children of Turkish origin were attacked and molested by young Russians.

In March last year, a Sri Lankan student and an Indian national were beaten up in similar circumstances.

In September 2002, an Azerbaijani vendor was clubbed to death by skinheads who filmed the attack.

According to interior ministry figures, there are up to 20,000 skinheads in Russia today, who are particularly active in large cities, with some 5,000 in Moscow and 3,000 in Saint Petersburg.

Police they face difficulties preventing crimes by the groups because of their decentralized nature.

"Saint Petersburg's skinheads don't have a centralized organization. Small groups spring up and dissolve very quickly," said Alexander, an official in the Saint Petersburg police department for fighting extremist groups.

"Most skinheads come from families with modest incomes. They are looking for scapegoats and think to carve themselves out a place under the sun in this way," said Alexander, who asked that his surname not be used.

"Police have a hard time preventing their actions because often enough they themselves do not know what they will do in five minutes," he said.

An he said, was the Schultz-88 skinhead group that launched raids against ethnic Caucasians for three years and was well organized but fell apart with the arrest of its leader Dmitry Bobrov in 2002.

"Open your eyes, if the blacks kill you tomorrow, there will be no one to avenge you except the skins. They must know this," Makarov said.

Shall I start generlizing that all Russians are racist, afterall i've never heard them going out to the streets and speaking up everytime a non-russian is beaten up? :rolleyes:

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 09:58 PM
We'll just have to disagree about the extent/level/degree of racism against blacks and anti-semitism in Russian then.

There is some anti-semitism in just about any country in the world.. So? :shrug:
We are talking about what great majority of people think, and in that regard Russia does not differ much from any other Western country.

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:00 PM
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/01/17/rabbiattacked.shtml


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060112/D8F3BA400.html

In last few days some folks burnt several Christian churches on US South.. Not one. Several. US is anti-christian? Just another hate crime. Happens everywhere..

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:05 PM
Shall I start generlizing that all Russians are racist, afterall i've never heard them going out to the streets are speaking up evertime a non-russian is beaten up? :rolleyes:

There is no need for general population to do anything about this kind of stuff if it is legally considered a crime in the country and police takes care of it just fine.. Hate crimes happen everywhere.. Hate crimes are not a problem that should worry everyone, because a crime is a crime, and handling it is just a matter of law enforcement, everyone condemns - people, government, media - everyone agrees on that... But when the hate act is not considered a crime and is ignored by the governmental institutions, then it's a problem. That's a difference.

dementieva's fan
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:15 PM
There is no need for general population to do anything about this kind of stuff if it is legally considered a crime in the country and police takes care of it just fine.. Hate crimes happen everywhere.. Hate crimes are not a problem that should worry everyone, because a crime is a crime, and handling it is just a matter of law enforcement, everyone condemns - people, government, media - everyone agrees on that... But when the hate act is not considered a crime and is ignored by the governmental institutions, then it's a problem. That's a difference.

Wake up!

The total number of skinheads estimated in the world is about 120,000 and the no of skinheads in Russia are estimated to be between 50,000-60,000. Half of world's skihead population lives in Russia the level of hate crime is higher in Russia than any other western country. Don't try to say that the situation of SH in russia is the same as in other countries look at this video
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/world/2006/02/03/chilcote.russia.skinheads.affl

There is no need for general population to do anything about this kind of stuff if it is legally considered a crime in the country and police takes care of it just fine.. Hate crimes happen everywhere.. Hate crimes are not a problem that should worry everyone, because a crime is a crime, and handling it is just a matter of law enforcement, everyone condemns - people, government, media - everyone agrees on that

The same holds true for Islam, if I'm not mistaken you go about in other threads crying about how muslims don't condemn terrorists and radicals. The same can be said for Russians :shrug: Burning embasseys is illegal too even in muslims countries and police take action against those who burn embasseys(you'd know that if you eve watched news)

Scotso
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:17 PM
He should be put in prison for inciting violence.

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:21 PM
Wake up!

The total number of skinheads estimated in the world is about 120,000 and the no of skinheads in Russia are estimated to be between 50,000-60,000.

Yeah, I know, Russian skinheads are the most disciplined one and 100% of them went to register at skinhead registration facility..


The same holds true for Islam, if I'm not mistaken you go about in other threads crying about how muslims don't condemn terrorists and radicals. The same can be said for Russians :shrug: Burning embasseys is illegal too even in muslims countries and police take action against those who burn embasseys(you'd know that if you eve watched news)

Yeah, there were thousands of people participating in burning embassies. When there are news that at least a hundred of them is jailed, investigation is done about who organized that, and organizers are jailed too, then we'll talk. And for now, STFU with your nonsense.

ys
Feb 14th, 2006, 10:23 PM
He should be put in prison for inciting violence.

Absolutely. But Muslim organizations have become a loose cannon all over the world.. Even authorities are afraid to stir the shit.. thinking it will stink less. A policy of pacifying the devil again.

dementieva's fan
Feb 15th, 2006, 12:07 AM
Yeah, I know, Russian skinheads are the most disciplined one and 100% of them went to register at skinhead registration facility..
OMG you're so ignorant. You don't even know about the shit happening in your backyard. And it's the reliable sources like CNN and BBC talking about the number of SH, and in fact 50,000 is the minimum number, some sources claim that the number is as high as 70,000. All the shit is in front of you, why ignoring the facts?
Here's a video of 5 skinheads beating one guy :rolleyes:
http://www.hotniss.com/page.php?id=475



Yeah, there were thousands of people participating in burning embassies. When there are news that at least a hundred of them is jailed, investigation is done about who organized that, and organizers are jailed too, then we'll talk. And for now, STFU with your nonsense.

Either the news you watch are a joke or you don't let the facts get in way of your ignorance. :rolleyes:

Seriously, tell me I want to hear why don't Russians do anything about the fascist? Yes there are fascist in other countries too but have you ever seen the video a nazi rally in the US? Do you see how they are outnubered like 15 to 80, in germany their are news of communist youth beating up the nazi's. Why not russia? (Like the taste of your own medicine?) :wavey:

RVD
Feb 15th, 2006, 02:16 AM
The official leader of Muslims of Russia responded to plan of gay-parade in Moscow in May..

He said that "gays have no rights and are disgusting for God and human kind"
In case of gay-parade happening he called on everyone to go and beat them.:"All normal people will do that - Muslims and Orthodox Christians as well"..

He suggested that gays should be "isolated as the Prophet generally ordered to kill them as their practices lead to termination of human kind"..

Another Muslim leader called for stoning gays if they have a parade..

That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you..

http://www.gazeta.ru/2006/02/14/oa_188637.shtml
As if there wasn't already enough hate in the world...
*sigh*

MistyGrey
Feb 15th, 2006, 02:39 AM
Yes you are right. Only Muslims beat up gays. Everybody else loves them. Jews, Christians, hindus they are all for homosexuality. There have never been any anti gay sentiments/actions in any non muslim country. Americans voted for Bush because he was all for abortion and gay rights! Those Damn Muslims! they are the only ones!

ys
Feb 15th, 2006, 02:43 AM
Yes you are right. Only Muslims beat up gays. Everybody else loves them. Jews, Christians, hindus they are all for homosexuality. There have never been any anti gay sentiments/actions in any non muslim country. Americans voted for Bush because he was all for abortion and gay rights! Those Damn Muslims! they are the only ones!

You don't see the difference , do you?

SelesFan70
Feb 15th, 2006, 02:48 AM
You don't see the difference , do you?

Maybe they're scared to speak up.. :shrug: :tape: :o :rolleyes:

dementieva's fan
Feb 15th, 2006, 02:57 AM
You don't see the difference , do you?
Whatever that imam said was wrong and hateful, I completely agree that he should be arreted for breaking the hate crime laws. But your intent with this thread is just flame the muslims. (which became clear after the first post)
A challage for you, for each post in which you show me that muslims beat up gays or bashed gays I'd give you 4 posts in which non-muslims bashed gays or beat them up, let's see who runs out of incidents first. :)

MistyGrey
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:04 AM
You don't see the difference , do you?
What? Not enough hate for Muslims in my post ? how about this... Those crazy bastards! does that work for u!

I see the difference all rite, He is muslim, that is why its ok to say all muslims are like that. If a priest had said that, people wud only be condemning him and not xtians in general. What he said was wrong, but what is up ur post "That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you.. " Bullshit! U condemn somebody else for provoking hate towards a group, while u're guilty of doing just that urself!

MistyGrey
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:06 AM
Maybe they're scared to speak up.. :shrug: :tape: :o :rolleyes:

Yea I was scared for an entire half hour !:shrug: :tape: :o :rolleyes:

drake3781
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:19 AM
For those saying that this is just the word of one man, my understanding of the Muslim Law (Sharia) is that homosexuals is a crime in Islamic society (Note: edited following research; more to be added.)

Someone knowledgeable about Muslim Law please correct this if it is wrong; otherwise I believe from my studies that it is a core tenet of the Muslim religion and not just the word of "one man".

I do know for a fact that homosexuality is a captial crime - death penalty and no other option - in Iran, and I have seen pictures of the hangings (they are hung together in the open in front of a crowd, and the bodies are left on public display).

Belmont Lad
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:43 AM
The official leader of Muslims of Russia responded to plan of gay-parade in Moscow in May..

He said that "gays have no rights and are disgusting for God and human kind"
In case of gay-parade happening he called on everyone to go and beat them.:"All normal people will do that - Muslims and Orthodox Christians as well"..

He suggested that gays should be "isolated as the Prophet generally ordered to kill them as their practices lead to termination of human kind"..

Another Muslim leader called for stoning gays if they have a parade..

That's the tolerance and peacefullness of Islam for you..

http://www.gazeta.ru/2006/02/14/oa_188637.shtml

A religious leader preaching hatred against gays? What a surprise. I am a moral, kind and generous person who has never pushed my sexuality on anyone, nor has ever done anyone harm. Yet this man wants me stoned, isolated or preferably executed but for my very existence. I wonder why I'm an atheist humanist? :lol:

dementieva's fan
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:55 AM
The attitude of pope towards homosexuality is'nt award winning either

cellophane
Feb 15th, 2006, 04:59 AM
A religious leader preaching hatred against gays? What a surprise. I am a moral, kind and generous person who has never pushed my sexuality on anyone, nor has ever done anyone harm. Yet this man wants me stoned, isolated or preferably executed but for my very existence. I wonder why I'm an atheist humanist? :lol:

Who is the guy in your avatar? :)

ys
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:22 AM
A religious leader preaching hatred against gays? What a surprise.

He is not preaching hatred. He is preaching an open, unambiguous violence.. That's what makes Muslims different. Probably Pope and many hardcore Christian pastors hate gays just as much, but they don't say "Go beat them, go kill them" to the fellow believers.

drake3781
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:22 AM
For those saying that this is just the word of one man, my understanding of the Muslim Law (Sharia) is that homosexuals is a crime in Islamic society (Note: edited following research; more to be added.)

Someone knowledgeable about Muslim Law please correct this if it is wrong; otherwise I believe from my studies that it is a core tenet of the Muslim religion and not just the word of "one man".

I do know for a fact that homosexuality is a captial crime - death penalty and no other option - in Iran, and I have seen pictures of the hangings (they are hung together in the open in front of a crowd, and the bodies are left on public display).

Great link here:
http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam.htm

Homosexuality Laws in Modern Islamic Countries

Same-sex intercourse carries the death penalty in five officially Muslim nations: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mauritania, Sudan, and Yemen. [3] It formerly carried the death penalty in Afghanistan under the Taliban, and in Iraq under a 2001 decree by Saddam Hussein. The legal situation in the United Arab Emirates is unclear. In many Muslim nations, such as Bahrain, Qatar, Algeria or the Maldives, homosexuality is punished with jail time, fines or corporal punishment. In some Muslim-majority nations, such as Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, or Mali, same-sex intercourse is not forbidden by law. However, in Egypt gays have been the victims of laws against "morality".

In Saudi Arabia, the maximium punishment for homosexuality is public execution, but the government will use other punishments, i.e. fines, jail time and whipping as alternatives, unless it feels that homosexuals are challenging state authority by engaging in a gay rights movement. [4] Iran is perhaps the nation to execute the largest number of its citizens for homosexuality. Since its Islamic revolution in Iran, the Iranian government has executed more than 4000 people charged with homosexual acts. In Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban homosexuality went from a capital crime to one that it punished with fines and prison sentence, and a similar situation seems to have occurred in Iraq.

ys
Feb 15th, 2006, 05:24 AM
The attitude of pope towards homosexuality is'nt award winning either

Pope does not call for violence. Pope's attitude can be described as non-acceptance at worst. But it is not a hate. Not a call to violence..

Almalyk
Feb 15th, 2006, 06:22 AM
A religious leader preaching hatred against gays? What a surprise. I am a moral, kind and generous person who has never pushed my sexuality on anyone, nor has ever done anyone harm. Yet this man wants me stoned, isolated or preferably executed but for my very existence. I wonder why I'm an atheist humanist? :lol:

Couldn't agree with you more. Great post!