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VeeDaQueen
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:34 AM
This is not a hate thread. I have always loved Serena Williams for her talent and how she won 4 consecutive slams. I am very impressed by that. But to be considered as one of the top athletes in today's game, you have to stay healthy. I am sad to say that I'm doubting Serena's position as a "top player" in today's game. She has played 20 tournaments in the past two years and has been constantly plagued by injuries, and their have been doubts about her commitment to tennis. I'm starting to lose respect for her. She needs to start working out and eating healthy; it's the only way to stay healthy. I know she is already aware that stretching is necessary before matches and practice, so why are there so many strains and such things? I'm really worried about her. I hope she will realize that if she doesn't start "getting it together" that she will fall out of the Top THIRTY! Get in better shape, and play more tournaments. I don't understand why she has fallen so far from what she was in 2002. Please get better Serena! We all miss your dedication and determination!

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:36 AM
If Serena never wins another match, she will still be considered one of the greats of this sport. She's happy and MAYBE she could do a little more to prepare herself for her matches, but the truth is none of us really knows how dedicated she is or how much these injuries really are affecting her. She's a smart woman, she's come back from injuries before, and she's won 7 majors, I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Blonde_Ambition7
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:37 AM
well it's 4 years later. it's hard to keep up the same level for that long.

hopefully she'll be healthy again.

RenaSlam.
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:37 AM
Me too. She is one of the most talented women's players in the history of the game and I would hate for her to waste it. COME BACK STRONG SERENA.

I have my doubts but I also know that this is Serena we are talking about...an inner-strength that very few possess.

Knizzle
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:38 AM
:rolleyes: @ losing respect for Serena.

Derek.
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:39 AM
Yeah what's going on now isn't Serena-like. But I have a feeling she'll get it together soon. :)

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:41 AM
Me too. She is one of the most talented women's players in the history of the game and I would hate for her to waste it. COME BACK STRONG SERENA.

I have my doubts but I also know that this is Serena we are talking about...an inner-strength that very few possess.


I don't understand the whole 'wasting" her talent arguement. We should call it what it really is and say Serena isn't doing what YOU want her to do.

switz
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:41 AM
If Serena never wins another match, she will still be considered one of the greats of this sport. She's happy and MAYBE she could do a little more to prepare herself for her matches, but the truth is none of us really knows how dedicated she is or how much these injuries really are affecting her. She's a smart woman, she's come back from injuries before, and she's won 7 majors, I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt.

those are my sentiments exactly

crazyroberto6767
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Have you been on the practice courts? Do you know her real dedication to tennis? If you do, fine make a judgement. But I'm betting you don't, so don't lose respect for someone over an assumption. She got injured, and then got out of shape because of the injury. She's coming back into form and into shape, and that commands respect, when she could have walked away from the game before this with enough money and her place in history cemented.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Yeah what's going on now isn't Serena-like. But I have a feeling she'll get it together soon. :)
If not now, when? Some of us have been saying that about Serena since 2004.

Grachka
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:47 AM
It's hard to be as good as once thought, when you've got a number of debilitating injuries that would have slain lesser women.

Rocketta
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:49 AM
I don't understand the whole 'wasting" her talent arguement. We should call it what it really is and say Serena isn't doing what YOU want her to do.

exactly!!!

"She's not dedicated to tennis enough" argument as well is the same as "Serena's not doing what I want her to do" as well. :rolleyes:

Kabezya
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Starting to lose respect? Seems like you've already lost it which brings to question what you respected in the first place. Serena's slams, her flair, determination and extras she's brought and continues to bring to the game shouldn't be in question or marked down because she's not in her cat suit condition or hasn't produced another Serena Slam. Who currently even comes close? No one. Serena won those slams, count them 7, you don't win slams by not being good, or great. Respect goes to Serena because it is commanded. Goodness take some perspective with this need to find fault. Serena is the tennis player, she's the champion and the one who knows what she needs to do to get those wins that are so important; some of this concern, especially that coming from some ill will or negative emotion definitely shows that the loudest and most consistent aren't necessarily out for the welfare of the subject.

hablo
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:50 AM
I think Serena can still win more slams :)

ampers&
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:53 AM
This is not a hate thread. I have always loved Serena Williams for her talent and how she won 4 consecutive slams. I am very impressed by that. But to be considered as one of the top athletes in today's game, you have to stay healthy. I am sad to say that I'm doubting Serena's position as a "top player" in today's game. She has played 20 tournaments in the past two years and has been constantly plagued by injuries, and their have been doubts about her commitment to tennis. I'm starting to lose respect for her. She needs to start working out and eating healthy; it's the only way to stay healthy. I know she is already aware that stretching is necessary before matches and practice, so why are there so many strains and such things? I'm really worried about her. I hope she will realize that if she doesn't start "getting it together" that she will fall out of the Top THIRTY! Get in better shape, and play more tournaments. I don't understand why she has fallen so far from what she was in 2002. Please get better Serena! We all miss your dedication and determination!
of course it's not a hate thread, but there's no doubt that it will turn into one.
you've been here long enough to know that.

anyway, Serena is certainly not the player she was 3-4 years ago. if i said she was, i'd be delusional. with that said, last year she was totally out of shape and was able to win a slam when no one expected her to. will she do it again? only time will tell…

unlike you, I can't lose respect for her.
i’ve seen improvement in her physique this year and she's apparently working hard to get into top form. you have no idea what she’s eating or if she working out so you’re in no place to say she “needs” to do anything.

every player goes through slumps. Venus did it, Lindsay did it, Jennifer did it...did you lose respect for Venus when she was playing poorly too? i seriously doubt you did. Serena’s human. she’s gone through a series of injuries and a personal tragedy. she obviously cares about this game or else she wouldn’t play anymore. she has more than enough money to live comfortably and enough titles to be considered a great, yet she still plays.

Jeez, it’s the beginning of the season; she hasn’t played a match outside an exhibition, and already the theories start flying. But I didn’t expect less from the tennis “fans” here. :rolleyes:

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:56 AM
It's hard to be as good as once thought, when you've got a number of debilitating injuries that would have slain lesser women.
Being a tad melodramatic, aren't we?

No Name Face
Jan 13th, 2006, 12:57 AM
she's going through a slump and still managed to win a slam...pretty impressive

sunset
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:01 AM
:rolleyes: @ losing respect for Serena.

You said it, not us.

Grachka
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:03 AM
Being a tad melodramatic, aren't we?
It's what I do best.

Knizzle
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:04 AM
You said it, not us.

You have to be the dumbest poster I've ever come across on this board. :lol: And an Elena Dementieva fan at that. *Shaking my head* :lol:

njnetswill
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:07 AM
Too bad she drew Li Na in first round. Otherwise I would wish Serena to be 100% healthy for her title defence. :shrug: :cool:

AkademiQ
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:08 AM
You said it, not us.

I'm like you sunset, I too agree with Knizzle, I roll my eyes at the idea of losing respect for Serena. Thanks for showing your support sunny :wavey: But it's okay next time for you to say it, be strong and proud :yeah:

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:15 AM
Anyone who has read my posts knows that I have been quite hard on Serena; in fact, some of my fellow Royal Court members have gone so far as to call me a hater. The reason I'm so hard on her is because I truly believe that she and Venus are the best players in the world, and I want their rankings to reflect that. I want to see them play more tennis, not less, because I think they can be even better then they've been. I understand that they have other interests, but they can pursue those later and still be successful at them; the window of opportunity in sports is narrow to begin with, and it gets narrower as time passes. They can be great fashion designers, interior designers, or whatever else they may want to do, when they're 40, 50, or 60. Their time to be great tennis players is RIGHT NOW, and I would love for them to take full advantage of it.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:16 AM
This is not a hate thread. I have always loved Serena Williams for her talent and how she won 4 consecutive slams. I am very impressed by that. But to be considered as one of the top athletes in today's game, you have to stay healthy. I am sad to say that I'm doubting Serena's position as a "top player" in today's game. She has played 20 tournaments in the past two years and has been constantly plagued by injuries, and their have been doubts about her commitment to tennis. I'm starting to lose respect for her. She needs to start working out and eating healthy; it's the only way to stay healthy. I know she is already aware that stretching is necessary before matches and practice, so why are there so many strains and such things? I'm really worried about her. I hope she will realize that if she doesn't start "getting it together" that she will fall out of the Top THIRTY! Get in better shape, and play more tournaments. I don't understand why she has fallen so far from what she was in 2002. Please get better Serena! We all miss your dedication and determination!
Some of you "Venus Only" fans kill me. Didn't they (the haters and doubters) say the same thing about Venus for the last two years, up until the semi-final of Wimbledon?

I swear, I could find these very words in this forum, just replace Serena's name with Venus and voila.

:rolleyes: Get a grip.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:18 AM
Too bad she drew Li Na in first round. Otherwise I would wish Serena to be 100% healthy for her title defence. :shrug: :cool:
A tough match right out of the blocks may be the best thing for her.

Knizzle
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:19 AM
Some of you "Venus Only" fans kill me. Didn't they (the haters and doubters) say the same thing about Venus for the last two years, up until the semi-final of Wimbledon?

I swear, I could find these very words in this forum, just replace Serena's name with Venus and voila.

:rolleyes: Get a grip.

Exactly which is why the :rolleyes: smiley is perfect for this occasion.

ampers&
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:20 AM
The reason I'm so hard on her is because I truly believe that she and Venus are the best players in the world, and I want their rankings to reflect that.
where you this hard on Venus when she was playing poorlly?

Ceecor
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:22 AM
17's for either sister, $6 will get you a c-note :)

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:27 AM
I'm like you sunset, I too agree with Knizzle, I roll my eyes at the idea of losing respect for Serena. Thanks for showing your support sunny :wavey: But it's okay next time for you to say it, be strong and proud :yeah:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:28 AM
where you this hard on Venus when she was playing poorlly?
Yep. In fact, I went so far as to say that Venus should work with another coach, because I thought Daddy Rich took her as far as he could. I still think she should fix the hitch in her forehand motion and switch to a 95-100" racquet. Other than that, I have no problem with her. ;)

AkademiQ
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:28 AM
I don't understand the whole 'wasting" her talent arguement. We should call it what it really is and say Serena isn't doing what YOU want her to do.


Isn't this the truth though? Serena isn't doing what some want her to do and she's getting shit about it. Serena isn't kissing ass like some want her to, Serena isn't wearing her hair like some want her to, she isn't designing the way some want her to, she's smiling when some want her to frown, she's enjoying and living her life and that isn't part of the deal.

We don't respect her wins alone, our admiration isn't on the superficial level of the titles. Some of us have actually come to like, to respect and care for Serena Williams. That means the whole package.

ampers&
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:29 AM
Yep. In fact, I went so far as to say that Venus should work with another coach, because I thought Daddy Rich took her as far as he could. I still think she should fix the hitch in her forehand motion and switch to a 95-100" racquet. Other than that, I have no problem with her. ;)
you seem like quite the expert...and you seem to know what's best for both of them. maybe you should coach them. :)

Zauber
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:33 AM
what is this baloney about a hate thread everytime one points out the deficencies of Serena Williams since last years Australian Open win.
Looking at her playing record it is very poor and no where near any top 20 player.
Now I dont care about the excuses whatever they may be.
She had two great years of tennis and noone will ever take that away from her.
However at the present time she has hardly won any matches.
I think its because her body has changed and she has not stayed in shape. She has slowed down. Making it harder for her to be consistent.
I make a bold prediction which I dont believe is unreasonable. Serena Williams will lose to Na Li in the first round or not show up or show up claiming multiple injuries.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:33 AM
you seem like quite the expert...and you seem to know what's best for both of them. maybe you should coach them. :)
They can't afford me. :devil:

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:35 AM
what is this baloney about a hate thread everytime one points out the deficencies of Serena Williams since last years Australian Open win.
Looking at her playing record it is very poor and no where near any top 20 player.
Now I dont care about the excuses whatever they may be.
She had two great years of tennis and noone will ever take that away from her.
However at the present time she has hardly won any matches.
I think its because her body has changed and she has not stayed in shape. She has slowed down. Making it harder for her to be consistent.
I make a bold prediction which I dont believe is unreasonable. Serena Williams will lose to Na Li in the first round or not show up or show up claiming multiple injuries.
:retard: What maroon.

Ceecor
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:36 AM
you seem like quite the expert...and you seem to know what's best for both of them. maybe you should coach them. :)

Yep I agree
they might actually have a better show :bounce:

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:37 AM
And, heeere they come...SWOOOP!!!

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:40 AM
Yep I agree
they might actually have a better show :bounce:
No, they wouldn't. Trust me. ;)

Ceecor
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:42 AM
welllllllll you have to smile on these things, da? :)

careyscott
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:51 AM
And, heeere they come...SWOOOP!!!

Time to scurry the Royal Court is here. Careful they might sew on a yellow star or a pink triangle and then have us rounded up. Do your best petals.

harloo
Jan 13th, 2006, 01:53 AM
Anyone with a bit of sense knows that Serena has been struggling with injuries for a while now. With everything she has accomplished she should be allowed to have a slump.

I find that everyone expects her to be perfect all the time which is unrealistic. She has won her fair share of slams and anything extra she does in her career thusfar will be icing on the cake.

darrinbaker00
Jan 13th, 2006, 02:06 AM
Time to scurry the Royal Court is here. Careful they might sew on a yellow star or a pink triangle and then have us rounded up. Do your best petals.
Nah, we're not that sophisticated. We'll just roll up on you and do a drive-by. :armed:

Ceecor
Jan 13th, 2006, 02:09 AM
Nah, we're not that sophisticated. We'll just roll up on you and do a drive-by. :armed:

Hahahahaha, good one!!!! :worship:

I see now why the WS are so feared :bounce:

Stamp Paid
Jan 13th, 2006, 02:52 AM
This is not a hate thread. I have always loved Serena Williams for her talent and how she won 4 consecutive slams. I am very impressed by that. But to be considered as one of the top athletes in today's game, you have to stay healthy. I am sad to say that I'm doubting Serena's position as a "top player" in today's game. She has played 20 tournaments in the past two years and has been constantly plagued by injuries, and their have been doubts about her commitment to tennis. I'm starting to lose respect for her. She needs to start working out and eating healthy; it's the only way to stay healthy. I know she is already aware that stretching is necessary before matches and practice, so why are there so many strains and such things? I'm really worried about her. I hope she will realize that if she doesn't start "getting it together" that she will fall out of the Top THIRTY! Get in better shape, and play more tournaments. I don't understand why she has fallen so far from what she was in 2002. Please get better Serena! We all miss your dedication and determination!

Because in your favorites last 20 tournaments, she has done significantly better right? LOL.

Stamp Paid
Jan 13th, 2006, 02:59 AM
Anyone who has read my posts knows that I have been quite hard on Serena; in fact, some of my fellow Royal Court members have gone so far as to call me a hater. The reason I'm so hard on her is because I truly believe that she and Venus are the best players in the world, and I want their rankings to reflect that. I want to see them play more tennis, not less, because I think they can be even better then they've been. I understand that they have other interests, but they can pursue those later and still be successful at them; the window of opportunity in sports is narrow to begin with, and it gets narrower as time passes. They can be great fashion designers, interior designers, or whatever else they may want to do, when they're 40, 50, or 60. Their time to be great tennis players is RIGHT NOW, and I would love for them to take full advantage of it.

Oh please, Venus hasn't done anything significant other than Wimbledon 2005 since 2002 when she was #1 in the world for a hot second. Get on her fucking case, her place in tennis history is far less secure than Serena's. It seems her commitment to tennis sh onhould be of greater focus to you than Serena's anyway, she is the one playing catch-up.

iWill
Jan 13th, 2006, 03:59 AM
:rolleyes: @ losing respect for Serena.

I have to agree with that. I would respect Serena if she quit tennis tomorrow because she has done alot in her career and brought tennis to fans they nvr thought they'd have. I think she is just going through some things with fitness and injuries and its gonna take her some time to get over them. I dont think we are understanding the severity of her injury and the fact that shes playing anyway is the only thing that bothers me. I think if she just took some time off and didnt worry about her ranking she could come back in the fashion that Justine and Kim did last year. I think when she had her surgery in 04 she could've waited a little longer I think we all were thrown off by the fact she won Miami in her first tourney back but once the wear and tear caught up with her she got seriously hurt i just hope she keeps the faith and she keeps fighting to get bak to the top where she belongs.

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:16 AM
Anyone with a bit of sense knows that Serena has been struggling with injuries for a while now. With everything she has accomplished she should be allowed to have a slump.

I find that everyone expects her to be perfect all the time which is unrealistic. She has won her fair share of slams and anything extra she does in her career thusfar will be icing on the cake.



I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate, I think part of why people don't cut Serena slack, at least on this board, is because lots of her fans say stuff like "A healthy Serena beats anybody else in the world." I don't agree, but when it's said over and over again, when a player of her caliber does slump, it makes it look all the worse because she's obviously not healthy. I think both venus and Serena fans need to be mindful that since 2003, neither sister has played enough nor consistently well enough to be considered the best player. I do believe that for both of them it is because of injury, but we do need to give credit to the girls who did step up. Admitting that Serena and Venus are currently not the best does not in anyway take from what they've already achieved.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:21 AM
I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate, I think part of why people don't cut Serena slack, at least on this board, is because lots of her fans say stuff like "A healthy Serena beats anybody else in the world." I don't agree, but when it's said over and over again, when a player of her caliber does slump, it makes it look all the worse because she's obviously not healthy. I think both venus and Serena fans need to be mindful that since 2003, neither sister has played enough nor consistently well enough to be considered the best player. I do believe that for both of them it is because of injury, but we do need to give credit to the girls who did step up. Admitting that Serena and Venus are currently not the best does not in anyway take from what they've already achieved.
You go right ahead. ;)

AkademiQ
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:39 AM
I do believe that for both of them it is because of injury, but we do need to give credit to the girls who did step up. Admitting that Serena and Venus are currently not the best does not in anyway take from what they've already achieved.


The facts are though that people are admitting and have been doing so for some time that neither woman and in particular Serena is not in the best of shape and not in the shape to definitely dominate. That is one reason statements like if she were healthy she would and could beat anybody -- the girl has done it before so it's not like any Serena fan is lying about it. People may get tired of Serena fans being 'prideful' or confident in Serena but it's just as annoying as either not having people take notice or completely ignore when Serena fans have so clearly stated the truth about Serena's current form and how that translates onto the court.

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:56 AM
The facts are though that people are admitting and have been doing so for some time that neither woman and in particular Serena is not in the best of shape and not in the shape to definitely dominate. That is one reason statements like if she were healthy she would and could beat anybody -- the girl has done it before so it's not like any Serena fan is lying about it. People may get tired of Serena fans being 'prideful' or confident in Serena but it's just as annoying as either not having people take notice or completely ignore when Serena fans have so clearly stated the truth about Serena's current form and how that translates onto the court.



I'm just saying that most of the accomplishments people bring up for both sisters are from 03 and before. That's history and the record books have noted their dominance, but it's no longer the case. Together in the last 2 years they've won 7 titles. Venus won 7 and I think Serena won 8 in 2002. They haven't played like that consistently in almost 3 years now. Sure at their best they are the best players in the world, but that hasn't mattered much in the last 2 years, they've either been too injured or played like crap for that to be a true statement. I'm just trying to point out that there's another side to all of this that I think most Williams' fans don't look at.

vogus
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:59 AM
I truly believe that she and Venus are the best players in the world


I think that is actually over-valuing Venus a bit. Serena had a fundamentally stronger game than Venus in '02-'03 - borne out by the results of 5 GS finals. And if Serena comes back to full strength, she will be a better player than Venus again.

Serena is the best player of the last 10 years, better than Venus, better than Hingis, better than Davenport, better (so far) than Henin. People should keep that in mind when they dog out the state of her game.

Stamp Paid
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:03 AM
I agree with you, but to play devil's advocate, I think part of why people don't cut Serena slack, at least on this board, is because lots of her fans say stuff like "A healthy Serena beats anybody else in the world." I don't agree, but when it's said over and over again, when a player of her caliber does slump, it makes it look all the worse because she's obviously not healthy. I think both venus and Serena fans need to be mindful that since 2003, neither sister has played enough nor consistently well enough to be considered the best player. I do believe that for both of them it is because of injury, but we do need to give credit to the girls who did step up. Admitting that Serena and Venus are currently not the best does not in anyway take from what they've already achieved.

Thats Venus fan shit, Serena fans are much more secure in our favorite, so we dont have to speak bullshit like that. The records speak for themselves as far as Serena as concerned, no footnotes are necessary. So that is definitely not the reason why Serena is receiving all of this criticism.

Stamp Paid
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:05 AM
I think that is actually over-valuing Venus a bit. Serena had a fundamentally stronger game than Venus in '02-'03 - borne out by the results of 5 GS finals. And if Serena comes back to full strength, she will be a better player than Venus again.

Serena is the best player of the last 10 years, better than Venus, better than Hingis, better than Davenport, better (so far) than Henin. People should keep that in mind when they dog out the state of her game.

LMAO Venus is closer to her than Henin. :o

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:10 AM
Thats Venus fan shit, Serena fans are much more secure in our favorite, so we dont have to speak bullshit like that. The records speak for themselves as far as Serena as concerned, no footnotes are necessary. So that is definitely not the reason why Serena is receiving all of this criticism.


I didn't say it was the sole reason I said it was part of the reason, maybe YOU haven't said it but there's been more than a few posters who have said that a healthy Serena beats everyone else. I'm more than fine with letting records speak for themselves, but that has to stand for the current record too: Neither sister has played spectacular for any extended period of time since '03.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:15 AM
I didn't say it was the sole reason I said it was part of the reason, maybe YOU haven't said it but there's been more than a few posters who have said that a healthy Serena beats everyone else. I'm more than fine with letting records speak for themselves, but that has to stand for the current record too: Neither sister has played spectacular for any extended period of time since '03.
It's because they haven't been healthy for a full season. You're making it seem like we are saying that an unhealthy Serena can beat anybody. How does the record not speak for itself when you say a healthy Serena can beat anyone. The form and the game she had when healthy beats anyone, even Venus and I'm a fan of both. But, I acknowledge the fact that she is the best player on tour, when she is healthy and in form. What's so bad about that? Until somone else comes along and plays and dominates the tour like her, then her fans can make that claim.

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:25 AM
It's because they haven't been healthy for a full season. You're making it seem like we are saying that an unhealthy Serena can beat anybody. How does the record not speak for itself when you say a healthy Serena can beat anyone. The form and the game she had when healthy beats anyone, even Venus and I'm a fan of both. But, I acknowledge the fact that she is the best player on tour, when she is healthy and in form. What's so bad about that? Until somone else comes along and plays and dominates the tour like her, then her fans can make that claim.



I've said it before but you can say those qualifications for anyone. It is a requirement for EVERYONE on tour that for them to play their best they be in form and healthy. Serena isn't healthy and in form, hasn't been for quite an extended period of time, just a week ago she pulled out of a tournament from an injury she's struggled with for almost 2 years now, she's is not the best at this moment. PERIOD. The truth is it is highly unlikely that either sister will return to the dominance they once enjoyed. History has shown it isn't likely to happen. Monica didn't, Steffi didn't, Martina Hingis didn't and it doesn't look like she will, and Venus nor Serena can't stay healthy long enough to even make a good run for months at a time. Serena was the best player on tour in 2002 and 2003, she isn't now and the record reflects that.

vogus
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:29 AM
LMAO Venus is closer to her than Henin. :o


Laugh or don't laugh, but Justine is a better player now than VW, and i expect that Justine will finish with the higher GS total of the two.

Knizzle
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:30 AM
Laugh or don't laugh, but Justine is a better player now than VW, and i expect that Justine will finish with the higher GS total of the two.

Laugh.

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:32 AM
Laugh or don't laugh, but Justine is a better player now than VW, and i expect that Justine will finish with the higher GS total of the two.


Justine has had a better two years than Venus, she is hardly a better player.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:42 AM
I've said it before but you can say those qualifications for anyone. It is a requirement for EVERYONE on tour that for them to play their best they be in form and healthy. Serena isn't healthy and in form, hasn't been for quite an extended period of time, just a week ago she pulled out of a tournament from an injury she's struggled with for almost 2 years now, she's is not the best at this moment. PERIOD. The truth is it is highly unlikely that either sister will return to the dominance they once enjoyed. History has shown it isn't likely to happen. Monica didn't, Steffi didn't, Martina Hingis didn't and it doesn't look like she will, and Venus nor Serena can't stay healthy long enough to even make a good run for months at a time. Serena was the best player on tour in 2002 and 2003, she isn't now and the record reflects that.
Puhleeze, everyone could be healthy and in form and not become No. 1, win a slam or even dominate the tour. There are good players and then you have the cream of the crop...the best of the best and she is one of them and Venus is right behind her. So, please don't give me "you can say those qualifications for anyone". That's a stupid statement and you've missed the whole point. No one is disputing that she's not the best at the moment because of her injuries, lack of matchplay and form. :shrug:

You're speculating about them regaining their dominance. I don't see history showing anything, but the fact that if you try hard, work hard and put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything. JenCap did it, Lindsay did it, Muhammad Ali did it, and many other sports greats. Your argument is flawed and you have no facts to back it up. Please give this up, because as a WS fan, I do not relish arguing with a kinsman. You can be a doubting Thomas if you want to be, but until they hang up their tennis racquets, I will always believe that they will once again dominate the tour. They are in a slump at the moment, but a light will come on and they will find their way.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:43 AM
Laugh or don't laugh, but Justine is a better player now than VW, and i expect that Justine will finish with the higher GS total of the two.
:rolleyes: Even Serena, as bad a shape as she was in at Wimbledon made it to the 3rd round. What happened to Justine.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:45 AM
Justine has had a better two years than Venus, she is hardly a better player.
That basically goes against the health argument you've been making all night against Serena being the best when healthy and in form. What was Venus excuse these past two years that despite the last two years, she's still a better player than Henin?

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:47 AM
Puhleeze, everyone could be healthy and in form and not become No. 1, win a slam or even dominate the tour. There are good players and then you have the cream of the crop...the best of the best and she is one of them and Venus is right behind her. So, please don't give me "you can say those qualifications for anyone". That's a stupid statement and you've missed the whole point. No one is disputing that she's not the best at the moment because of her injuries, lack of matchplay and form. :shrug:

You're speculating about them regaining their dominance. I don't see history showing anything, but the fact that if you try hard, work hard and put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything. JenCap did it, Lindsay did it, Muhammad Ali did it, and many other sports greats. Your argument is flawed and you have no facts to back it up. Please give this up, because as a WS fan, I do not relish arguing with a kinsman. You can be a doubting Thomas if you want to be, but until they hang up their tennis racquets, I will always believe that they will once again dominate the tour. They are in a slump at the moment, but a light will come on and they will find their way.



We will obviously agree to disagree but facts do show that it is not likely to regain dominance after an extended period of time as I did mention players who that happened to. It's ok to have a difference of an opinion but my point is NO ONE plays their best without being in form and healthy, Serena IS like everyone else in that regard.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:49 AM
We will obviously agree to disagree but facts do show that it is not likely to regain dominance after an extended period of time as I did mention players who that happened to. It's ok to have a difference of an opinion but my point is NO ONE plays their best without being in form and healthy, Serena IS like everyone else in that regard.
We can disagree all day, but you're still speculating.

No one is arguing that a person plays their best without being in form and healthy and no one is arguing that Serena is any different. :confused:

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:51 AM
That basically goes against the health argument you've been making all night against Serena being the best when healthy and in form. What was Venus excuse these past two years that despite the last two years, she's still a better player than Henin?


No it doesn't.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:54 AM
No it doesn't.
Explain how it doesn't.

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:54 AM
We can disagree all day, but you're still speculating.

No one is arguing that a person plays their best without being in form and healthy and no one is arguing that Serena is any different. :confused:


And you're speculating that they will regain their dominance. I was simply pointing out that after an extended period of injury or slump or whatever players in the recent past have not regained their dominance. That's not speculation, it's the truth. But again let's agree to disagree. Serena is still a fantastic player and a threat to win any tournament she enters, I've supported her in many other posts on here and will root for her at the Aussie (until she gets to Venus :devil: )

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 05:56 AM
Explain how it doesn't.


Let's be real, If I did explain you wouldn't agree or acknowledge that I haven't contradicted myself anyway and then the whole agree to disagree will come up all over again. So I'll pass. I've said my piece you don't agree and that's fine.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 06:00 AM
And you're speculating that they will regain their dominance. I was simply pointing out that after an extended period of injury or slump or whatever players in the recent past have not regained their dominance. That's not speculation, it's the truth. But again let's agree to disagree. Serena is still a fantastic player and a threat to win any tournament she enters, I've supported her in many other posts on here and will root for her at the Aussie (until she gets to Venus :devil: )
I'm not speculating that they will. I know they can if they do everything in their power to achieve it. You're saying they won't, no matter what and that's speculation. You cannot forecast the future, so you don't know whether it's the truth. Again, we can agree to disagree all day long, but you're still speculating.

Of course she's a fantastic player, just as Venus is, but she's the best when she is in form, which is why she's a threat to win any tournament she enters. You wouldn't say that about just any player, who was healthy and in form.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 06:04 AM
Let's be real, If I did explain you wouldn't agree or acknowledge that I haven't contradicted myself anyway and then the whole agree to disagree will come up all over again. So I'll pass. I've said my piece you don't agree and that's fine.
Wait, we haven't agreed to disagree on this topic. I asked you a question about why your argument against Serena being the best player when healthy and in form doesn't apply to Venus and your statement that the only reason why it seems that Justine is the better player is because she had two better years than Venus, but Venus is the better player of the two. If you give me a good explanation, I will agree or a least acknowledge that you haven't contradicted yourself. Just don't contradict yourself.

Marcus1979
Jan 13th, 2006, 06:08 AM
the sisters get bagged enough without these sisters Vs Sisters fights like we saw in in 2002 and that period

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 06:11 AM
I'm not speculating that they will. I know they can if they do everything in their power to achieve it. You're saying they won't, no matter what and that's speculation. You cannot forecast the future, so you don't know whether it's the truth. Again, we can agree to disagree all day long, but you're still speculating.

Of course she's a fantastic player, just as Venus is, but she's the best when she is in form, which is why she's a threat to win any tournament she enters. You wouldn't say that about just any player, who was healthy and in form.


I said history has shown they are highly unlikely to do so. That doesn't mean they won't or that I believe they won't. I personally believe they can, but realize it is unlikely. They are getting older, they've been doing this successfully for years, there are other girls who can make big trouble for them now. Who knows what will happen? No one would have said in 2001 or 2002 that the sisters would be goin through the difficulties they are now. Just like when the ridiculous shouts of them being in decline were coming in early 05, many didn't think they would win another slam. None of us knows what WILL happen. And about the other part, i neevr said that all players can play at the same level as Serena. I said that for any player to play their best they have to be healthy and in form. People keep saying that Serena isn't playing great because she's not healthy and in form. DUH!!! venus plays like shit when she's not healthy and in form, justine plays like shit when she's not healhty and in form, nicole pratt plays like shit all the time but especially when she's not healthy and in form. Saying that is meaningless cause everyone has to be healthy and in form to do well at the very best level.

venus_rulez
Jan 13th, 2006, 06:17 AM
Wait, we haven't agreed to disagree on this topic. I asked you a question about why your argument against Serena being the best player when healthy and in form doesn't apply to Venus and your statement that the only reason why it seems that Justine is the better player is because she had two better years than Venus, but Venus is the better player of the two. If you give me a good explanation, I will agree or a least acknowledge that you haven't contradicted yourself. Just don't contradict yourself.


Ok, I draw a distinction between being the better player and having the better career first off. For instance I feel that venus is a better player than Martina Hingis, but would say that Martina Hingis has had the better career. And I also draw distinctions to being a better play NOW and and being THE better player. Justine has been a better player than Venus because she's had better results the last 2 years. But she's is not THE better player for a variety reasons one being Venus has more slams, she leads their head to head lopsidedly, not to mention that so far it's quite obvious that if the world ended today most unbiased posters would say venus is the better player. It's funny to watch posters come and criticize and say Venus sucks ass or Serena is a fat cow, and then claim to not be biased when they say Justine, who they believe to be the inventor of the one handed backhand, is a better player.

Denise4925
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:27 PM
Ok, I draw a distinction between being the better player and having the better career first off. For instance I feel that venus is a better player than Martina Hingis, but would say that Martina Hingis has had the better career. And I also draw distinctions to being a better play NOW and and being THE better player. Justine has been a better player than Venus because she's had better results the last 2 years. But she's is not THE better player for a variety reasons one being Venus has more slams, she leads their head to head lopsidedly, not to mention that so far it's quite obvious that if the world ended today most unbiased posters would say venus is the better player. It's funny to watch posters come and criticize and say Venus sucks ass or Serena is a fat cow, and then claim to not be biased when they say Justine, who they believe to be the inventor of the one handed backhand, is a better player.
:confused: I'm confused. Are you saying that the better player is the player with the better overall career results or that the better player is the better player because of better skills?

Why again do you think that Venus is a better player than Martina Hingis and why do you think Venus is a better player than Justine?

serenafan08
Jan 13th, 2006, 04:38 PM
Some of you "Venus Only" fans kill me. Didn't they (the haters and doubters) say the same thing about Venus for the last two years, up until the semi-final of Wimbledon?

I swear, I could find these very words in this forum, just replace Serena's name with Venus and voila.

:rolleyes: Get a grip.
You took the words right out of my mouth.