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View Full Version : Question: Is the WTA really doing away with Bonus points?


earthcrystal
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:35 PM
I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in depth, but I've only been to visiting sporatically so I don't know the status of this rumor (that I saw a few weeks back).

If I understand it correctly, the WTA is going to a ranking system similar to the ATP and are going to abolish quality pts/use only round points for the rankings and reorganize them in December. (But use the old system/rankings to determine Aussie Open seeding.) Is that right?

If this is true, have any of you numbers geeks had a go at reorganizing the rankings (w/o quality pts) yourself yet? Just curious as to how this will affect the current standings if it's indeed the case.

Thanks in advance to any & all who reply.

Pengttaya
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Yes and Yes :) But you cant search here anymore but someone definately did do altered rankings....

earthcrystal
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:01 PM
So someone did crunch the numbers but no one can show them to me?

Oh well, guess I'll be waiting for the official version. Thanks, ramjam.

Pengttaya
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:04 PM
So someone did crunch the numbers but no one can show them to me?

Oh well, guess I'll be waiting for the official version. Thanks, ramjam.

Yes someone did a while ago but you cant use the search option anymore. Unless you want to trawl through page upon page of past General MEssage theads you could find it that way

GoDominique
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:04 PM
http://www.wtatour.com/rankings/singles_numeric.asp

Fourth column minus fifth column. :)

Pengttaya
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:05 PM
http://www.wtatour.com/rankings/singles_numeric.asp

Fourth column minus fifth column. :)
Or that too :rolleyes: :lol:

nitsansh
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:25 PM
http://www.wtatour.com/rankings/singles_numeric.asp

Fourth column minus fifth column. :)
That's not correct. If you subtract the quality points, the list of "best 17" tournaments may not be the same. It may be true for most players who don't get beyond the 1st round in more than 17 tourneys, but those who do it could make a difference.

Rising Sun
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:26 PM
I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in depth, but I've only been to visiting sporatically so I don't know the status of this rumor (that I saw a few weeks back).

If I understand it correctly, the WTA is going to a ranking system similar to the ATP and are going to abolish quality pts/use only round points for the rankings and reorganize them in December. (But use the old system/rankings to determine Aussie Open seeding.) Is that right?

If this is true, have any of you numbers geeks had a go at reorganizing the rankings (w/o quality pts) yourself yet? Just curious as to how this will affect the current standings if it's indeed the case.

Thanks in advance to any & all who reply.
I know that the entries will be based on the old system's rankings, but the seedings too? :confused:

nitsansh
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:39 PM
So when the new ranking system will be effective for entries?

GoDominique
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:14 PM
That's not correct. If you subtract the quality points, the list of "best 17" tournaments may not be the same. It may be true for most players who don't get beyond the 1st round in more than 17 tourneys, but those who do it could make a difference.
The difference is negligible in most, if not all cases. :)

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:23 PM
http://www.wtatour.com/rankings/singles_numeric.asp

Fourth column minus fifth column. :)

hopefully they will take them off one week at a time :o
or else :help:

nitsansh
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:09 PM
The difference is negligible in most, if not all cases. :)
There is a difference for some players, at least.
For all players who haven't won a match (including quallies) in more than 17 tournaments it is surely right, for the rest you should check their activity record to be sure. One win over a high-ranked player could be better than 2 wins over low-ranked players in the current system, but it won't be when quality points are out of the system.

terjw
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:11 PM
I apologize in advance if this has been discussed in depth, but I've only been to visiting sporatically so I don't know the status of this rumor (that I saw a few weeks back).

If I understand it correctly, the WTA is going to a ranking system similar to the ATP and are going to abolish quality pts/use only round points for the rankings and reorganize them in December. (But use the old system/rankings to determine Aussie Open seeding.) Is that right?

If this is true, have any of you numbers geeks had a go at reorganizing the rankings (w/o quality pts) yourself yet? Just curious as to how this will affect the current standings if it's indeed the case.

Thanks in advance to any & all who reply.

If you look at how they'd look without thw quality points - it won't tell you anything about how the rankings will look like when they stop giving bonus points because the bonus points earned this year will still stay.

They won't change it so one week you've got all your bonus points and the next week all the bonus points you earned will just be taken away. When they change - they are just going to stop giving bonus points for all tournaments from that date on. Therefore it will take a further year before all bonus points earned are out the system.

If this is all they do it will mean that during this transition year points earned for tournaments in 2005 will be worth much more than for tournaments in 2006. For example immediately after the AO - whoever wins that will have far fewer points for that without the bonus points than the 2005 slam winners -Kim, Venus and Justine. All the time any 2005 points still count, it will be harder to climb the rankings in 2006 because you will be earning fewer points. However, that will become less and less of a problem as time goes by and the 2005 points are dropped and will not be a problem at all when the whole transition phase is complete after a year.

Zoltan83
Oct 29th, 2005, 11:22 PM
I just repeat one of my message that I post in a similar thread.

Quality Points Elimination

For the next year, the quality points will be eliminated from the ranking.
Players will be used 2005 ranking (including all quality points earned in 2005) to enter the the first 6 weeks of tournaments in 2006.
The ranking used for seeding at these tournaments will be the most recent ranking meaning that the seed ranking at these tournaments will not include quality points.

TF Chipmunk
Oct 29th, 2005, 11:35 PM
I still don't get WHY they're doing this :rolleyes: It complicates things so much more. Are they really that lazy to calculate bonus points :retard:

nitsansh
Oct 29th, 2005, 11:59 PM
I just repeat one of my message that I post in a similar thread.

Quality Points Elimination

For the next year, the quality points will be eliminated from the ranking.
Players will be used 2005 ranking (including all quality points earned in 2005) to enter the the first 6 weeks of tournaments in 2006.
The ranking used for seeding at these tournaments will be the most recent ranking meaning that the seed ranking at these tournaments will not include quality points.
that means that from the 7th week (starting Feb 13) the new ranking without quality points will be used for all purposes.

nitsansh
Oct 30th, 2005, 12:03 AM
Zoltan, is there going to be a new 2005 year-end ranking without quality points for seeding in week #1?
Otherwise, the most recent ranking for week 1 will still have quality points...

Zoltan83
Oct 30th, 2005, 12:40 AM
that means that from the 7th week (starting Feb 13) the new ranking without quality points will be used for all purposes.

Wrong (but it's my fault lol I consider AO as taken only one week).
Antwerp and Bangalore will be the last tournament where players will use their 2005 ranking for the entry. Because the deadline for the entry on these tournaments is December 26.
Dubai / Memphis / Bogota will be the first tournaments with a ranking which doesn't include quality points at all.



Zoltan, is there going to be a new 2005 year-end ranking without quality points for seeding in week #1?
Otherwise, the most recent ranking for week 1 will still have quality points...
The quality points are eliminated January 2006, 1. So I guess that they will be a new ranking. I'm not completely sure but it seems logicial.

nitsansh
Oct 30th, 2005, 12:55 AM
According to my calculation, the entry deadline for tournaments on Feb 13 (Antwerp/Bangalore) should be Jan 2 (that is 6 weeks in advance).
Normally there are no tournaments on the last week of the year, so there may be no ranking list on Jan 2 and the ranking of Dec 26 will be used to enter these tournaments.
The entry deadline for tournaments of Feb 20 should be Jan 9, and that will definitely have no quality pts.
But if there is no ranking on Jan 2, then the seeding for tournaments on Jan 9 will also have to use the ranking of Dec 26...

nitsansh
Oct 30th, 2005, 12:59 AM
Well, of course WTA may decree that a ranking of Jan 2 will be effective for seeding in tournaments of that week... that's what I meant about a special 2005 year-end ranking sans quality pts...

Zoltan83
Oct 30th, 2005, 01:08 AM
According to my calculation, the entry deadline for tournaments on Feb 13 (Antwerp/Bangalore) should be Jan 2 (that is 6 weeks in advance).
Normally there are no tournaments on the last week of the year, so there may be no ranking list on Jan 2 and the ranking of Dec 26 will be used to enter these tournaments.
The entry deadline for tournaments of Feb 20 should be Jan 9, and that will definitely have no quality pts.
But if there is no ranking on Jan 2, then the seeding for tournaments on Jan 9 will also have to use the ranking of Dec 26...
For Antwerp and Bangalore, I'm sure that the entry deadline is December 26.

For Gold Coast / Auckland (first tournament of the year) the entry deadline is November 21.
Well, of course WTA may decree that a ranking of Jan 2 will be effective for seeding in tournaments of that week... that's what I meant about a special 2005 year-end ranking sans quality pts...
Yes probably :)

fammmmedspin
Oct 30th, 2005, 03:26 AM
If you look at how they'd look without thw quality points - it won't tell you anything about how the rankings will look like when they stop giving bonus points because the bonus points earned this year will still stay.

They won't change it so one week you've got all your bonus points and the next week all the bonus points you earned will just be taken away. When they change - they are just going to stop giving bonus points for all tournaments from that date on. Therefore it will take a further year before all bonus points earned are out the system.

If this is all they do it will mean that during this transition year points earned for tournaments in 2005 will be worth much more than for tournaments in 2006. For example immediately after the AO - whoever wins that will have far fewer points for that without the bonus points than the 2005 slam winners -Kim, Venus and Justine. All the time any 2005 points still count, it will be harder to climb the rankings in 2006 because you will be earning fewer points. However, that will become less and less of a problem as time goes by and the 2005 points are dropped and will not be a problem at all when the whole transition phase is complete after a year.

Thats why they will do it at one go as the posts below imply. Otherwise you would have the AO winner with 2/3 the points of the USO winner for 2/3 of the year - the oldest information would be most highly weighted. It would make a daft idea even dafter.