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tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:13 AM
(archive article)

The 23 Most SHOCKING moments in tennis.

23. Wimbledon bombed, 1940. During WWII, Nazi launched its Blitz upon London. Oct 11, 1940, a bomb landed on centre court, no one’s hurt.

22. First ever Wimbledon streaker, 1996. A 23 yrs old female student who was working in the Tournament leapt into Centre court wearing only a maid’s pinny, which she graciously lifted for all the world to see. The finalists that day were Mal Washington and Krajicek.

21. Ivanisevic’s Wildcard win, 2001. (well, you know the story). Ivanisevic was as shocked as the rest of us.

20. Transsexual at USO, 1977. Dr Renee Richards, 42 years of age, lost to Virginia Wade. Richard Raskind, the former-self of Dr. Richards, competed as a man at the tournament in 1960. She was banned from WTA tourneys after being discovered as a transsexual. But the court ruled that would be infringing her human right, she was permitted to compete in WTA events within US and achieved a career high ranking of 26.

19. Player threatened with Mutilation, Moscow 1993. Top Russian tennis player Elena Makarova was shown on TV accepting a prize money cheque for AUD$1500, a man telephoned her mother and threatened to mutilate a member oft the family unless he received half the winnings. The cash was duly handed over. (this is really disgusting)

18. Muster’s legs crushed by car, Miami, March 1989. Muster was in his first ever TMS final in Miami. The eve of the final match, he was unloading his stuff from the car and a drunk-driver hit him. His left knee was severely injured and doctor said he won't be able to play for a year (well, at first doctor said he won't be able to return to tennis). But he got back to the tour in only 5 and a half month and eventually got to the top (#1 ranking).

17. Jelena Dokic’s father jailed, Birmingham, England, 1999. June 99, Damir Dokic was forcibly ejected from Birmingham’s Edgbason Club for shouting at everyone and telling them they were “fascists”. Once outside the club, he proceeded to lie down in front of traffic in the middle of the road and ended up spending the afternoon in jail.

16. McEnroe’s “Pits of the World!” Wimbledon, England, June, 1981. John McEnroe was playing Tom Gullikson on Wimbledon’s Court #1. Dinking a simple volley into the net, McEnroe turned to the umpire and asked: “I suppose that first serve was good?” “The serve was good”, replied the umpire. It was then that McEnroe turned away and uttered the immortal line: “ You guys are the pits of the world, you know that”. After a long pause, Thomas (the umpire) told McEnroe that he was going to award a point against him. The crowd cheered their approval and McEnroe went ballistic. “You are incompetent”, he screamed, “I’d like the referee brought out.

”In the ensuing chaos McEnroe was docked a second point. After he’d composed himself and won the match he was fined $1500. He was lucky not to be disqualified.

‘Super Brat’, as he was know after this tantrum, set a precedent in tennis like no other. From that day onwards players have been moaning, swearing, misbehaving and spitting the dummy like never before. And we spectators love it . (Yuck, I hate it. Look what you’ve done to this world, JMac. No wonder the McEnroes like Pandy so much, he’s practically a McEnroe breed).

15. Navratilova defects, New York, August 1975. Right in the middle of USO, Martina defected with the help of the FBI (Wow, really). After much negotiation and huge protest from the Czech authorities, she received her green card. She had to wait 5 years until became a US citizen. “That means five years of avoiding flights over Communist territory, just in case my plane would be forced to land and I would be taken off it”, she wrote. “I wasn’t taking any chances.”

14. Tennis spectator shot, Forest Hills, NY, 1977. In USO 1977, a spectator was sitting on the stadium court watching a match when he was shot in the leg by someone letting off a gun on the outside the court. Police never found out who was responsible. Perhaps they were too busy attending to the other crimes committed during the fortnight, like the bomb scare on the opening day, the bomb scare on the last day and the nutter who slashed his wrists outside the exclusive West Side Club restaurant.

13. Nasty Nastase disqualified and reinstated, Flushing Meadows, NY, 1979. During a match between 2 of the then most controversial players in the world – John McEnroe and Ilie Nastase – the vociferous judgment of the crowd led to the overruling of the umpire’s decision to disqualify the Romanian player. Tourney officials, fearful that fans would riot if they couldn’t watch Nastase play on, reinstated the wayward player, despite the fact that he had been warned for misconduct, been deducted a point, been deducted a game and then been legitimately disqualified – all in strict accordance with tennis’s code of conduct.

12. Tarango storms off court, Wimbledon, England, 1995. It all started when he queried a line call on his own service, which he was convinced should have been an ace. Forced to replay the point, the American’s temper rose, especially when the crowd started heckling him. “Shut up!” he eventually yelled into the stands, at which point the umpire issued a code violation for verbal abuse. Demanding to see the supervisor, who backed his colleague, Tarango then told the umpire: “You are the most corrupt official in the game”. When another code violation was imposed the enraged player then shouted “That’s enough! That’s it!” picked up his bag and stormed off the court. Appalled at the treatment her husband received, Tarango’s wife, Benedicte went up to the umpire after the match and slapped him . “He deserved it, “ she said unrepentantly. (Geez, how disgusting, don’t ppl have any respect for the umpire ).

11. Alleged Cocaine abuse, Paris, France, 1995. Swedish player Mats Wilander and Czech Davis Cup player Karel Novacek were tested positive for the Class A drug and were consequently fined and banned from playing. There had been suspicions that hard drugs had been used by some of the more wild players on the ATP Tour, but it wasn’t until Wilander and Novacek were busted that the authorities were faced with the evidence that tennis wasn’t immune. Finally tennis players were revealed to be human, just like athletes in every other sport. However, Wilander and Novacek protest their innocence to this day.


10. Gerulaitis gassed to death, Long Island, NY, USA, 1994. Former World #3 Vitas Gerulaitis always lived life to the edge. Known for his liking of various indulgences, it has been reported he came close to death several times before he finally departed this world. But it wasn’t alcohol or cocaine that killed him. On Sept 17, he was holding a coaching clinic in Long Island, when he decided to take an afternoon nap. He never woke up, fatally poisoned by carbon monoxide fumes from a faulty heater.

9. Borg’s alleged suicide attempt, Milan, Italy, 1989. For years Swedish player Bjork Borg was known as the cool man of tennis. So composed and dispassionate was he on court that the press nicknamed him “Ice Borg”. Imagine the shock in 1989 when he was rushed to hospital in Milan after what newspaper described as an attempt to take his life. His publicist’s tried to play down the affair, claiming that the 5 times Wimby champ was suffering from food poisoning. But hospital doctors revealed they’d found 60 sleeping pills in his stomach. The truth was never discovered.

8. Korda tests positive, London, England, 1998. When the Czech Republic’s Aussie Open champ, Petr Korda, tested positive for Nandrolone, his subsequent ban, fine and lengthy appeal process sent shockwaves throughout the tennis world. The main problem was that no one really knew what was going on. In July Korda was tested after his QF defeat at Wimby by Henman. After his samples proved to contain Nandrolone, his prize money and ranking points from Wimby were withdrawn. Then followed a confusing series of court decisions and appeals that eventually led to a playing ban and an ostracism of Korda by his fellow players. He still maintains his innocence.

7. Henman kicked out of Wimby, England, 1995. Never in the 117 years of the Championships at Wimby had a player suffered the ignominy of being disqualified. So when it proved to be a British player who stained the record, the shock was all the more colossal. During a doubles match with Jeremy Bates in the inauspicious setting of Court 14, Henman lost a crucial point in the 4th set TB. Frustrated, he picked up the ball and, in anger, whacked it down the court. It proved to be the last ball he ever hit that year at Wimby, for, to his horror it connected hard and fast with the ear of 16 yrs old ball girl Caroline Hall who was running across the court at the very same instant. Caroline hit the deck, the umpire immediately disqualified Henman and Bates, the future British #1 was forced to slink off court with his tail between his legs and a 2000 fine looming.

Tim, ever the gentleman, made a public apology the next day of the poor ball girl and tried to make up for his terrible blunder with a gift of flowers. Interestingly, Wimby disqualifications proved to be just like buses. You wait for 117 years and then suddenly 3 come along at once. Indeed four days after Henman’s gaffe, Jeff Tarango was booted out of the All England Club as was Murphy Jensen 2 days after that.

6. Career cut short in riding accident, San Diego, USA, 1954. At the age of 19 Maureen Connolly had already achieved more in tennis than most top players do in a lifetime. With 3 US National, 3 Wimby, 1 Aussie Open and 3 French titles to her name, she was already one of the sport’s greatest, and she was still only a teenager. ‘Little Mo’ as she was known, recalled her tragic horse-riding accident that cut short her career at 19: “The driver swerved the truck towards me. As he started to thunder by, my horse wheeled. I remember sharp stinging pain and I fell. I rolled up my trouser leg and saw my leg slashed to the bone, the flesh lying open”. This meant the end of her tennis. Even more tragically, she died of cancer at the age of 34.

5. Line judge dies on court, Flushing Meadows, NY, USA, 1983. Future Swedish great Stefan Edberg was playing the Aussie Simon Youl in the final of the USO boys’ event. Suddenly, out of the blue, one of the line judges, 60 yrs old Dick Wertheimer, received a direct hit from a tennis ball in the nether regions. He immediately fell off his chair, cracked his skull on one of the Flushing Meadows’ hard courts and suffered a heart attack on his way to hospital. Tragically, just a few days later, the poor man passed away.

4. Ashe contracts AIDS, NY, USA, 1991. The 3 times GS champ who had struggled so long and so hard for black players to be accepted into the sport of tennis, was diagnosed as having AIDS, a cruel result of infected blood transfused during a heart operation.

3. Jewish player commits suicide, Germany, 1933. It was one of the most disgraceful episodes in the history of tennis, especially when you consider that, at the time, virtually everyone involved in the sport simply sat back and let it happen. The setting was 1930s Germany. Hitler ordered that all Jews should be ousted from public service and professions. The German tennis federation, like other sports governing bodies, yielded to the Nazi order and immediately ruled that “non-Aryans” were banned from representing Germany or serving on tennis committees.

Unfortunately, 2 of Germany’s best players were Jewish. Daniel Prenn, who had served his country magnificently in Davis Cup, and Nelly Neppach, the German women’s champ of 1925, suddenly found themselves persona non grata, despite having been considered national heroes for many years. But more shocking was that other international tennis governing bodies made no complaints at this terrible injustice. Only British players Fred Perry and Bunny Austin decried the action, writing a letter of protest to The Times newspaper.

Prenn was forced to flee the Nazis and ended up exiled in Britain. Neppach was not so lucky. She was so depressed by her misfortune that she took her own life.

2. Billie Jean sued by ex-lover, NY, USA, 1981. The fledging sport of women’s professional tennis was rocked to its foundations when the sport’s leading star and activist, BJ King, was sued by her former lesbian lover, Marilyn Barnett, who demanded 50% of King’s assets after the relationship cooled off.

The media went berserk because King was the first female tennis player to be ‘outed’, and it was the first ever case of palimony between same sex partners. In the end the court threw out Barnett’s case, but King suffered heavily on lost endorsement and sponsorship contracts. Sponsors dropped her in droves bcos none wished their products to be associated with a *** lifestyle. And King, who was already 37 at the time, continued to play on the pro tour until she was well past 40 bcos she couldn’t afford to retire.

1. The stabbing of world number one Monica Seles, Hamburg, Germany, 1993. The day Gunter Parche plunged his dagger into Monica Seles’s back during a change of ends at the Citizen Cup on April 30, 1993, was the day tennis ‘s innocence died. During the change over, Seles felt a searing pain just below her left shoulder blade and screamed out as Parche, a 38 yrs old unemployed lathe operator from Gorshach in eastern Germany, sunk a knife into her back.

Seles wasn’t seriously injured, but the blade had entered perilously close to her spinal cord. More worrying was the psychological damage that affected the then Yugoslav player for the next few years. “In the first moment I didn’t realize what had happened,” Seles recalled, “I couldn’t breathe. The pain came when someone pressed their hand on my back. It was like fog, somehow unreal, and I thought maybe I would be dead. I remember looking around the stadium and seeing the people with their mouths open, gasping. I only saw the man’s face for a split second. I turned and saw him as he raised the knife again.”

Seles was immediately rushed to hospital, her back bleeding profusely. Parche was wrestled into custody, his arm broken from being twisted so tightly behind his back by security guards. The infamous knife lay on the clay court where he had dropped it.

Parche turned out to be a crazed and obsessive Steffi Graf fan who stabbed Seles so that the former might be able to regain the World #1 spot. He was put on trial where he admitted causing grievous bodily harm. Bizarrely he was released from custody with a 2 year suspended sentence on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Seles has never played tennis in Germany again.

Billy Moonshine
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:26 AM
Wow, u r obsessed with the stabbing. Dont u think any tennis fan already knows this and that's it's been discussed to death? You have a morbid obsession and need to seek help.

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:34 AM
Wow, u r obsessed with the stabbing. Dont u think any tennis fan already knows this and that's it's been discussed to death? You have a morbid obsession and need to seek help.

How many aliases do you have in here Calimero? :tape: You are one SICK pup. :lol:

Chunchun
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:20 AM
Monica :sad:

Ems__
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:58 AM
The best player to ever come out of Yugoslavia and the reason I play tennis, was stabbed. It truly was the most shocking moment in tennis history :sad:

Brαm
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:00 AM
:eek: :awww: at the dead line judge and the Jewish German player who killed herself :sad::sad:

harley
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:05 AM
The stabbing of world number 1 Seles changed the history of tennis.

pav
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:08 AM
Does tripping over after stepping in a pothole in the asphalt of the Tokaanu courts in 1990 and twisting My ankle and this fat Sheila laughing at Me count as one of the most shocking moments of Tennis history :confused:
I suppose not :sad:

SpikeyAidanm
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:28 AM
19. Player threatened with Mutilation, Moscow 1993. Top Russian tennis player Elena Makarova was shown on TV accepting a prize money cheque for AUD$1500, a man telephoned her mother and threatened to mutilate a member oft the family unless he received half the winnings. The cash was duly handed over.

Chanda Rubin had a similar incident I think, one of the downsides of being famous :sad:

SloKid
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:38 AM
Monika :sad:

SloKid
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:39 AM
Interestingly, Wimby disqualifications proved to be just like buses. You wait for 117 years and then suddenly 3 come along at once. Indeed four days after Henman’s gaffe, Jeff Tarango was booted out of the All England Club as was Murphy Jensen 2 days after that.
:haha:

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:56 AM
i alwas imagine how many slams seles would have one if it had not happened

Zauber
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:00 AM
morbid obsessions

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:49 AM
(archive article)

The 23 Most SHOCKING moments in tennis.

...

I'd say, Navratilova being rag-dolled in the Wimbledon 88 final in the last two sets would qualify as well.
One might think #1 Seles being beaten like a drum in the Wimbledon 92 final as well, but perhaps that is only me ....

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:51 AM
How many aliases do you have in here Calimero? :tape: You are one SICK pup. :lol:


I don't think help would help you. Therefore I can't be Billy Moonshine, tennis_anus.

:wavey:

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:55 AM
The best player to ever come out of Yugoslavia and the reason I play tennis, was stabbed. It truly was the most shocking moment in tennis history :sad:

No, Nelly Neppach committing suicide was more shocking.
Even the dead line judge in the Edberg match was worse than the Seles incident.

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:57 AM
The stabbing of world number 1 Seles changed the history of tennis.


Less the the horse-riding accident of M. Conolly, Tracy Austin's retirement due to injury or Graf's knee surgery in 1997.

TomTennis
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:59 AM
I'd say, Navratilova being rag-dolled in the Wimbledon 88 final in the last two sets would qualify as well.
One might think #1 Seles being beaten like a drum in the Wimbledon 92 final as well, but perhaps that is only me ....

oh for god sakes man! We KNOW you like Steffi, we know you want to bum her and lick her arsehole all day long..

..but for once can you just accept the fact that this stabbing was an absolutley devastating moment.

You act like a jerk do you know that! Instead of the stabbing, you would vote for a match that steffi won something like 6-1 6-1 and has NO significance what so ever.

you are twisted! I think you need to get your ass out of your own (and Steffi's for that matter) and think clearly!

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 10:00 AM
i alwas imagine how many slams seles would have one if it had not happened


About 12 most probably.

skanky~skanketta
Oct 29th, 2005, 12:40 PM
#1 amd #3 are particularly devastating.

Ems__
Oct 29th, 2005, 12:54 PM
No, Nelly Neppach committing suicide was more shocking.
Even the dead line judge in the Edberg match was worse than the Seles incident.

Definately more tragic, but we're talking about shocking here

marmite1
Oct 29th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Didnt realise how many bad things have happened in the history of tennis.

dinhd82
Oct 29th, 2005, 01:16 PM
oh for god sakes man! We KNOW you like Steffi, we know you want to bum her and lick her arsehole all day long..

..but for once can you just accept the fact that this stabbing was an absolutley devastating moment.

You act like a jerk do you know that! Instead of the stabbing, you would vote for a match that steffi won something like 6-1 6-1 and has NO significance what so ever.

you are twisted! I think you need to get your ass out of your own (and Steffi's for that matter) and think clearly!


you go Tom!

I wonder how calimari would react if it was the other way around (steffi being stabbed)

RenaSlam.
Oct 29th, 2005, 01:48 PM
Monica :sad:

Williams Rulez
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:02 PM
oh for god sakes man! We KNOW you like Steffi, we know you want to bum her and lick her arsehole all day long..

..but for once can you just accept the fact that this stabbing was an absolutley devastating moment.

You act like a jerk do you know that! Instead of the stabbing, you would vote for a match that steffi won something like 6-1 6-1 and has NO significance what so ever.

you are twisted! I think you need to get your ass out of your own (and Steffi's for that matter) and think clearly!tell it like it is! :worship:

Munchen
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:06 PM
Monica :sad: :sad:

PaulieM
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:12 PM
no surprise the stabbing was #1, definitely shocking.
some very sad stuff on the list. :sad:

man have umpires received some abuse over the years :scared:

Kart
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:14 PM
I'm not sure some of these moments are as much shocking as they are unfortunate.

Geisha
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:26 PM
The best player to ever come out of Yugoslavia and the reason I play tennis, was stabbed. It truly was the most shocking moment in tennis history :sad:

It could even possibly be the most shocking in sports altogether. It's just so sad that we have to think about the "ifs" all the time. Why couldn't she get stabbed in 2002?? I know that's a sad thing to say, but I wish she could have been the great player that she was destined to be. Not many people win 8 Slams in less than a 3 year period.

Kworb
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:33 PM
The stabbing really is what comes to mind when you think of shocking moments in tennis.

And Seles only lost the '92 Wimbledon final cause she didn't grunt ;)

alfajeffster
Oct 29th, 2005, 02:41 PM
I have to admit, I was totally shocked when Martina Navratilova admitted she was a lesbian. I, along with the rest of the world (and Chris Evert too) didn't see that one coming, and how brave to fly in the face of all those endorsement possibilities like that.

raquel
Oct 29th, 2005, 03:00 PM
I have to admit, I was totally shocked when Martina Navratilova admitted she was a lesbian. I, along with the rest of the world (and Chris Evert too) didn't see that one coming, and how brave to fly in the face of all those endorsement possibilities like that.
Alfa :devil:

I am sure I read somewhere that the line judge dying during the Stefan Edberg match was not quite as dramatic as that, and that he would have died from heart problems around that time whether he was on the tennis court or not. Sad story though.

I'm also kind of surprised no other transsexuals (that I know of) followed Renee Richards' trail blazing. Maybe the rules have changed since but I might have thought seeing Renee play might have had some other transsexuals try it too.

joaco
Oct 29th, 2005, 03:09 PM
wow :eek:

faboozadoo15
Oct 29th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Alfa :devil:

I am sure I read somewhere that the line judge dying during the Stefan Edberg match was not quite as dramatic as that, and that he would have died from heart problems around that time whether he was on the tennis court or not. Sad story though.

I'm also kind of surprised no other transsexuals (that I know of) followed Renee Richards' trail blazing. Maybe the rules have changed since but I might have thought seeing Renee play might have had some other transsexuals try it too.
i think that has to do with how few transexuals good tennis players there are. plus, sad as it is, who would want to put themselves into that harsh and judging of an environment?

didn't stefan endberg his a serve (when he was junior) that killed a linesman? TWO officials have died during his matches!

Rollo
Oct 29th, 2005, 04:36 PM
LOL@ you Alfa:lol:


They missed a couple of biggies IMO-maybe because for most "history" is in the last few years.


1928- Germany Top player punches the mother of another top tenner in the face in the stands. Flapper and divorcee Paula von Reznicek had been beating cute little Cilly Aussem of Germany recently. Mama Aussem demanded an investigation, charging Paula with "hypnotizing" her daughter. Mama said it was the only explanation for her daughter losing to Reznicek. Paula (ranked the in world's top ten in 1927) confronted Mrs. aussem in the stands. Words flew. When Mrs. aussem refused to take back her accusation Paula let go with a right hook that TKOed Mrs. Aussem.

192? An airplane crashed during the men's final at Forest Hills between Bill tilden and Bill Johnson. It hit the ground right outside the stadium, which shook from the impact. People died, but the match went on.

Rollo
Oct 29th, 2005, 04:40 PM
I forogot this-A Wimbledon finalist who was a murderer.


http://www.wimbledon.org/en_GB/history/murderer.html

R&J
Oct 29th, 2005, 04:41 PM
Less the the horse-riding accident of M. Conolly, Tracy Austin's retirement due to injury or Graf's knee surgery in 1997.

No, being stabbed is more shocking then falling off a horse or having knee surgery :wavey: dont you think?

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 04:51 PM
you go Tom!

I wonder how calimari would react if it was the other way around (steffi being stabbed)


Steffi would have been back within 2 months.
I have not the slightest doubt.

Pengttaya
Oct 29th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Steffi would have been back within 2 months.
I have not the slightest doubt.
:haha: :retard:

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 04:57 PM
It could even possibly be the most shocking in sports altogether.


You are mocking the 2000 dead casualties of the Salvadorian-Honduran "Soccer War" in the 70ies.
Or the soccer players of AC Torino (1949) and Manchester United (1958) who perished in airplane crashs.
Or the murdered defender of the Colombian national team whose mistake was to lose a match the cocain mafia had put huge bets on.

Don't get me started with the many deaths in automobile racing or in equestrian sports.

Pengttaya
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:08 PM
You are mocking the 2000 dead casualties of the Salvadorian-Honduran "Soccer War" in the 70ies.
Or the soccer players of AC Torino (1949) and Manchester United (1958) who perished in airplane crashs.
Or the murdered defender of the Colombian national team whose mistake was to lose a match the cocain mafia had put huge bets on.


That is a lot more shocking then Monica being stabbed(based on the fact she didnt die....)

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:09 PM
No, being stabbed is more shocking then falling off a horse or having knee surgery :wavey: dont you think?


Being stabbed takes you out for some weeks usually.
Falling of a horse or having reconstructive knee surgery ends careers.

R&J
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:24 PM
Being stabbed takes you out for some weeks usually.
Falling of a horse or having reconstructive knee surgery ends careers.

....and the trama someone could go through from being attacked would be different for each individual person. I know when I was attacked back in high school, it still haunts me to this day and that was years and years ago. Somethings that happen like being stabbed, can change your whole way of thinking. It is not just something you forget and get over. You know that, stop trying to act like you dont understand that.

PaulieM
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Being stabbed takes you out for some weeks usually.
Falling of a horse or having reconstructive knee surgery ends careers.
anybody that says this is clearly nuts. being stabbed is clearly not traumatic at all :rolleyes: why do people bother arguing with him? :confused:

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:47 PM
....and the trama someone could go through from being attacked would be different for each individual person. I know when I was attacked back in high school, it still haunts me to this day and that was years and years ago. Somethings that happen like being stabbed, can change your whole way of thinking. It is not just something you forget and get over. You know that, stop trying to act like you dont understand that.

To be brutally blunt:
As a lawyer I have heard the trauma explanation simply too often.

BTW, didn't Monica sue the Citizen Cup organizers for millions of $?
And didn't she refuse to present the medical file on her alleged trauma in court? :confused:

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 05:49 PM
anybody that says this is clearly nuts. being stabbed is clearly not traumatic at all :rolleyes: why do people bother arguing with him? :confused:


99 % of stab attack victims are back at the office after a few weeks.

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:01 PM
99 % of stab attack victims are back at the office after a few weeks.

Your daddy Gunther Parche should have stabbed you instead to end your worthless pathetic existence in this world. :lol:

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:25 PM
Your daddy Gunther Parche should have stabbed you instead to end your worthless pathetic existence in this world. :lol:


Günther Parche's modus operandi was stabbing a tiny wound with a small and flexible boning knife. Really nothing "to end a existence" with ....

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:26 PM
He's NOTHING but a sick cold-hearted, unfeeling, insensitive, retarded motha*&*%$#! I am now convinced of two things..........either he IS Gunther Parche, or is related to Hitler!:rolleyes: This is really obsessive trolling in all things concerning Monica!!:fiery: :mad:

very true vettipooh....

Again, Here's a very interesting article (posted on an earlier thread) that I came across recently which I would like to share to my fellow good posters (those who haven't read it) as to give us a logical explanation as to why this German psycho-- (Calimero377) has this highly disturbing supreme HATRED and INTOLERANCE against other players like the Williams sisters,... BUT most especially Monica Seles)......

(article)

After portraying a foreign world tennis champion in most unflattering terms, creating a mass-media climate conducive to her stabbing, the German press has proceeded to foster the elevation of their own tennis champion, become the world champion by default, to religious sanctity.

On 7 June 1993, a full page ad on the back of the Suddeutsche Zeitung appeared with a blow-up photograph of tennis star Steffi Graf, who had just won the French Open and re-asserted her just-regained position as the Weltmeisterin, the No. 1 female player, in the most prestigious world sport, tennis, with the headline, beneath Sieg in Paris of Notre Dame.

In Italy, the headlines in journals like La Repubblica emphasized that the ‘victory' in Paris occurred with the absence of the woman who had defeated Graf there the last several times, and who had seemed likely to defeat her again, thus sustaining her position as the world's No.1 woman's tennis player, but for being stabbed in a Hamburg tennis court by a nationalist from Graf's home country. There was not a real ‘victory', and deference to the facts would have left little to celebrate.

At Vienna's Museum of Applied Art recently, world-rank architects discussed the cultural situation. They said that whatever is real had become ‘mediated'. It had become dominated by a tv-information environment in which true and false, image and reality, had been compacted together, so that tv ads, news and sports had become the believable world. Said one: For most people there are only two places in the world, where they live and their tv set.

According to the German press reports, this is precisely what happened for the man who stabbed Steffi Graf's foe. Because of unification, he, an East German, had become unemployed. Because he had no more social structure, he, seeking membership, became absorbed in the mass media. Because the media practiced extreme nationalism, particularly with queen-figure Steffi, he, not normally a criminal, but not knowing how else to be a man, deliberately and relentlessly put together a scheme to stab the woman who, by being a better player, was preventing Graf from being the world champion. The sole reason was not she was bad or that Graf was good, but that she was not German and Graf was. He had found employment, after all. And he was prepared to pursue this job anywhere in the planet until it was accomplished. In effect; a superior opponent of the German champion would be pursued as relentlessly and systematically as Trotsky was by Stalin; nowhere would be safe. This means that in the event the German media starts limelighting a certain star or hero, and in the event a foreigner happens to outshine or outwin that star or hero in competition, and in the case that the economy due to unification continues to be depressed (as now), the foreigner may well be in danger... anywhere.

The media environment, for example, generated denigration and attack on the character or playing style of Graf's opponent, such that one could conclude that Graf was actually the better athlete, actually the better player, but that her opponent was simply more determined, more desperate, more bestial, more vicious, more cruel, in sum, worse. Witness the photo and text published in Bild on the morning of the attack. Graf, the abused and saddened beauty, is up against - indeed, ‘we' are up against - some dark and dangerous, some obscure and biting beast.

As for Graf, as we discover later with the happy end to the frightening story, when a good knight has stabbed the beast and the good princess can win her tournament in Paris, she can be elevated to the status of Notre Dame.If of course her opponent had not been stabbed and had gone on to (quite likely) win in Paris, then the Notre Dame would have become the poor, abused blonde, the hurt woman who actually should win and whom we all should assist in that great effort.

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:39 PM
very true vettipooh....

Again, Here's a very interesting article (posted on an earlier thread) that I came across recently which I would like to share to my fellow good posters (those who haven't read it) as to give us a logical explanation as to why this German psycho-- (Calimero377) has this highly disturbing supreme HATRED and INTOLERANCE against other players like the Williams sisters,... BUT most especially Monica Seles)......

(article)

After portraying a foreign world tennis champion in most unflattering terms, creating a mass-media climate conducive to her stabbing, ...

In the REAL world (not the Selesian parallel universe) Seles had said in a press conference just days before The Stabbing that she "loved to play in Germany because I have many, many fans there" .....


:aparty: :aparty: :aparty:

:bigwave:

BTW, I still have the adidas ad in the Süddeutsche Zeitung.
And it didn't read "Sieg in Paris of Notre Dame". A typical blatant Selesian lie. Maybe IMG is behind that as well ... ?

harley
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Poor PinocchiaGraf was on the verge of retiring back in 1993 before the stabbing of World number one player in the world Monica Seles came as a blessing for Graf's carreer. Back then, Graf was just the underdog, she could not even reach the finals in most of the big tournaments simply because she had lost her self-confidence because of Seles, she was like Hingis when Williams arrived on tour; In PinocchiaGraf's mind it must have been amazingly pleasant to realise in May 1993 that her main rival in big tournies would have been Arantxa instead of Monica. Did i say MAIN RIVAL? Well, there was no real rivalry in those years between Seles and Graf: 7 slams out of 9 (not competing in one of those and losing in the final of the other ) and 2 Masters for Seles and only 2 slams (one without Seles ) for Graf in 1991-January 1993: can you call this a rivalry?
As I said, Seles was dominating the sport and PinocchiaGraf was only gathering the crumbs. The stabbing forced out of the game the best player in the world and that's all.
Noone had ever broken in like this on either side of the sport. Not Borg or Evert or McEnroe or anybody. 8 majors at 19 :eek: :worship: . Imagine what would have been of Navratilova's carreer with Evert stabbed away from tennis or viceversa. That's what happened to Seles and Graf. They should add Parche's name to Graf's name in the records when they talk about Graf's results in the second part of her carreer, the part that began on 30 April 1993, after Parche had stabbed Seles.
One psychotic PinocchiaGraf fan will, as always, find the chance to flood us with his statistics, but there is nothing to discuss really: it was only after that Seles was stabbed that Graf found her way to win again. The truth is: PinocchiaGraf was a terrific athlete, Seles was born as a tennis player , she just had that talent within : she didn't look as she had the legs to cover the court the way she did, she got to the ball and then, half the time, her opponent never saw the next angle coming. Graf, with all her muscles and athleticism, was never more resilient than she was at the 1992 French Open final, that match would have been hers against any other opponent, but Seles would not give it up.
As I said, easy expectation, this post will surely give to the psychotic Pinocchia fan from Germany the chance to repeat the same old stories once and again. You all think his mania and obsession is his infinite love for PinocchiaGraf, I guess there is one sentiment stronger than this in mind:his hate for Seles is bigger than his love for Graf. This man is moved by hate :mad: just like Guenter Parche, the maniac. I will not lose my time replying to his obvious, dull and pathetic barkings, to his absurd attempts to discredit Seles... I do have a life to live, does he? :confused: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:56 PM
Poor PinocchiaGraf was on the verge of retiring back in 1993 before the stabbing of World number one player in the world Monica Seles came as a blessing for Graf's carreer. Back then, Graf was just the underdog, she could not even reach the finals in most of the big tournaments simply because she had lost her self-confidence because of Seles, she was like Hingis when Williams arrived on tour; In PinocchiaGraf's mind it must have been amazingly pleasant to realise in May 1993 that her main rival in big tournies would have been Arantxa instead of Monica. Did i say MAIN RIVAL? Well, there was no real rivalry in those years between Seles and Graf: 7 slams out of 9 (not competing in one of those and losing in the final of the other ) and 2 Masters for Seles and only 2 slams (one without Seles ) for Graf in 1991-January 1993: can you call this a rivalry?
As I said, Seles was dominating the sport and PinocchiaGraf was only gathering the crumbs. The stabbing forced out of the game the best player in the world and that's all.
Noone had ever broken in like this on either side of the sport. Not Borg or Evert or McEnroe or anybody. 8 majors at 19 :eek: :worship: . Imagine what would have been of Navratilova's carreer with Evert stabbed away from tennis or viceversa. That's what happened to Seles and Graf. They should add Parche's name to Graf's name in the records when they talk about Graf's results in the second part of her carreer, the part that began on 30 April 1993, after Parche had stabbed Seles.
One psychotic PinocchiaGraf fan will, as always, find the chance to flood us with his statistics, but there is nothing to discuss really: it was only after that Seles was stabbed that Graf found her way to win again. The truth is: PinocchiaGraf was a terrific athlete, Seles was born as a tennis player , she just had that talent within : she didn't look as she had the legs to cover the court the way she did, she got to the ball and then, half the time, her opponent never saw the next angle coming. Graf, with all her muscles and athleticism, was never more resilient than she was at the 1992 French Open final, that match would have been hers against any other opponent, but Seles would not give it up.
As I said, easy expectation, this post will surely give to the psychotic Pinocchia fan from Germany the chance to repeat the same old stories once and again. You all think his mania and obsession is his infinite love for PinocchiaGraf, I guess there is one sentiment stronger than this in mind:his hate for Seles is bigger than his love for Graf. This man is moved by hate :mad: just like Guenter Parche, the maniac. I will not lose my time replying to his obvious, dull and pathetic barkings, to his absurd attempts to discredit Seles... I do have a life to live, does he? :confused: :wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

very true :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

R&J
Oct 29th, 2005, 06:57 PM
Günther Parche's modus operandi was stabbing a tiny wound with a small and flexible boning knife. Really nothing "to end a existence" with ....

so then we should all just forget that it really happend, right?

faboozadoo15
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:08 PM
this is all so mundane, measuring and arguing about the shock value of horrific events.

the reason monica being stabbed is SO shocking is because it crossed such a line between fans and sport that will never be mended. people falling off a horse or perishing in a plane crash (however tragic) are equally likely to happen to any one of us who participate in such activities. horse riding accidents, riding in cars, riding in planes, all have always had an assumed risk about them. but stepping out onto a tennis court to play a match in front of thousands of people doesn't in any way carry the risk of being stabbed by a derranged fan. it isn't some 1 in a thousand probability that could be tracked, like the danger of riding a horse or in a plane or car.

spencercarlos
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:28 PM
this is all so mundane, measuring and arguing about the shock value of horrific events.

the reason monica being stabbed is SO shocking is because it crossed such a line between fans and sport that will never be mended. people falling off a horse or perishing in a plane crash (however tragic) are equally likely to happen to any one of us who participate in such activities. horse riding accidents, riding in cars, riding in planes, all have always had an assumed risk about them. but stepping out onto a tennis court to play a match in front of thousands of people doesn't in any way carry the risk of being stabbed by a derranged fan. it isn't some 1 in a thousand probability that could be tracked, like the danger of riding a horse or in a plane or car.
This is something that Calimero will never realize.
The events he mentions here have no comparisson to what happened to Monica, eventhough she did not die or was not even close to that, what happened happened on a tennis tournament, while playing a match, on the court. Psicological effects can´t be meassured or showed to people.
While he address Graf´s off court problems to her slump on court during 1991-april 1993. Why then a problem that happened "on court" shouldn´t affect Monica and assume she had to be back at the office just weeks later ...ridiculous
Anyway what can you expect from an irrational person.

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:44 PM
so then we should all just forget that it really happend, right?


Of course not. Because it change the history of women's tennis.
As Connolly horse riding accident, Tracy Austin's and Martina Hingis' early retirement due to career-ending injuries, the Graf blackmail scandal and Graf's career-ending reconstructive knee surgery did too.

But most probably The Stabbing had less influence on the distribution of slam titles than all these other incidents.

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 07:59 PM
But most probably The Stabbing had less influence on the distribution of slam titles than all these other incidents.

Ma'am, :tape: for you to not give Gunther Parche his rightful place along with your slice goddess certainly takes away from your credibility on here...

The #1 player in women's tennis in the early years of the 1990s was clearly Monica Seles and there was no end in sight for that domination.

:lol:

Calimero377
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:03 PM
...
The #1 player in women's tennis in the early years of the 1990s was clearly Monica Seles and there was no end in sight for that domination.

:lol:


The end was in sight.
Seles had a 58 pts. lead in the WTA rankings in January 1992.
In April 1993 Graf had reduced that lead to only 21 pts.
Graf had won 3 of the 5 matches against #1 Seles. And was improving fast.

And Seles?
Was gaining weight and weight and weight ......

VeeReeDavJCap81
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:06 PM
The end was in sight.
Seles had a 58 pts. lead in the WTA rankings in January 1992.
In April 1993 Graf had reduced that lead to only 21 pts.
Graf had won 3 of the 5 matches against #1 Seles. And was improving fast.

And Seles?
Was gaining weight and weight and weight ......

So desperate :lol: it's so sad...

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:08 PM
The end was in sight.
Seles had a 58 pts. lead in the WTA rankings in January 1992.
In April 1993 Graf had reduced that lead to only 21 pts.
Graf had won 3 of the 5 matches against #1 Seles. And was improving fast.

And Seles?
Was gaining weight and weight and weight ......

1991 US Open--Seles
1991 WTA TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS--Seles
1992 AUSTRALIAN OPEN--Seles
1992 FRENCH OPEN--Seles
1992 WIMBLEDON--Graf
1992 US OPEN--Seles
1992 WTA TOUR CHAMPIONSHIPS--Seles
1993 AUSTRALIAN OPEN--Seles

Monica Seles won 7 of 8 of the BIGGEST CONSECUTIVE EVENTS in women's tennis she entered before the stabbing.

While Steffi Garf only managed to winning 1 of 8 of the BIGGEST CONSECUTIVE EVENTS she entered before the stabbing.

**April 30, 1993 Seles stabbed in Hamburg**

Ma'am, :tape: is this is mere coincidence???... that Second ranked Graf went from winning TWO Grand slams in three years to winning four consecutive in one year happens to be totally unrelated to the stabbing of World Number One Monica Seles? :tape:

Graf's career, and her INFLATED and BLOATED "lifetime career stats" that you keep on harping about, were tremendously aided by the stabbing of the TRUE #1 Monica Seles perpetrated by a very JEALOUS fan.

:lol:

Orion
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:12 PM
It could even possibly be the most shocking in sports altogether.

Not even the most shocking moment in sports in Germany. The Munich Olympic games. The killings there rank as the most shocking moment in sports.

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Wow, u r obsessed with the stabbing. Dont u think any tennis fan already knows this and that's it's been discussed to death? You have a morbid obsession and need to seek help.

Must agree. Its almost like he wants it happen again. As though, he himself wants to stab someone. What a sick piece of work.

daffodil
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:36 PM
99 % of stab attack victims are back at the office after a few weeks.

That's your opinion. Maybe it took a couple more months for Monica to heal because she was such a unique and special human being in such a unique and special place in the world. I think being stabbed in your own home is something along the lines of what Monica went through.

A high school kid getting stabbed on the street is different than a tennis player getting stabbed on the tennis court in front of the whole world.

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:36 PM
Graf's career, and her INFLATED and BLOATED "lifetime career stats" that you keep on harping about, were tremendously aided by the stabbing of the TRUE #1 Monica Seles perpetrated by a very JEALOUS fan.

:lol:

Not according to Tennis Magazine, Anus.

Graf is well ahead of Monica. Remember??? :yeah:

daffodil
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:40 PM
The end was in sight.
Seles had a 58 pts. lead in the WTA rankings in January 1992.
In April 1993 Graf had reduced that lead to only 21 pts.
Graf had won 3 of the 5 matches against #1 Seles. And was improving fast.

And Seles?
Was gaining weight and weight and weight ......

Don't even say that the end was in sight. You of all people keep saying that the Monica fans shouldn't be saying that Monica "would" have dominated tennis for 10 years if she hadn't been stabbed. On the other side of the coin, Graf fans shouldn't be assuming that Monica was nearing the end of the road.

How many players who win three Grand Slams in consecutive years just stop winning in a matter of months??

Greats??
Martina H.? Nope.
Martina N.? Definitely not.
Chrissie? Okay, she didn't win 3 Slams in a year but she had Grand Slam longevity.

daffodil
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Not according to Tennis Magazine, Anus.

Graf is well ahead of Monica. Remember??? :yeah:

Obviously.

Look at the Grand Slam and title count from Graf, then llook at Seles.

daffodil
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Not even the most shocking moment in sports in Germany. The Munich Olympic games. The killings there rank as the most shocking moment in sports.

I'm not familiar.

daffodil
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:43 PM
I am famililar. I must say that the Munich Olympics terrorist attacks were, to me, not as shocking because the 11 athletes who died didn't get attacked because they were amazing athletes. They died because of political stupidity.

daffodil
Oct 29th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Monica got stabbed because she was the best tennis player in the world.

tennis aus
Oct 29th, 2005, 11:03 PM
Must agree. Its almost like he wants it happen again. As though, he himself wants to stab someone. What a sick piece of work.

Basing on the Historical evidence, STABBINGS on the tennis court against better players ( out of sheer JEALOUSY and INSECURITY)... was carried out by Graf psycho fans like you Calimero377!

tennis aus
Oct 30th, 2005, 01:48 AM
Not according to Tennis Magazine, Anus.

Graf is well ahead of Monica. Remember??? :yeah:

That's why Tennis Magazine ranked her at #3 with a big asterick. Greatest with no hesitation right? :tape:

#1 Martina Navratilova-Greatest Woman Player of All Time. :lol:

tennis aus
Oct 30th, 2005, 07:26 AM
And Seles?
Was gaining weight and weight and weight ......


no, wait a minute --- not with a KNIFE stabbed into her back by a jealous Graf fan. Why was the knife stabbing in Monica Seles' back so necessary anyway?

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 07:36 AM
no, wait a minute --- not with a KNIFE stabbed into her back by a jealous Graf fan. Why was the knife stabbing in Monica Seles' back so necessary anyway?


That is the most tragic aspect - it wasn't even necessary from the attacker's standpoint. He was so deranged that he maintained - when interrogated after the attack - that Seles "was #1 and had beaten Steffi all the time" ....
:lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

That one got him the suspension of his jail term most probably. The court judged that he obviously must be retarded.

tennis aus
Oct 30th, 2005, 08:04 AM
That is the most tragic aspect - it wasn't even necessary from the attacker's standpoint. He was so deranged that he maintained - when interrogated after the attack - that Seles "was #1 and had beaten Steffi all the time" ....
:lol: :lol: :rolleyes:

That one got him the suspension of his jail term most probably. The court judged that he obviously must be retarded.

Gunther Parche was a very jealous sick man. But make no mistake about it --- he did the stabbing of Monica Seles over the #1 ranking and the fact that Seles had won 10 of the last 12 biggest singles titles in women's tennis over a sustained 3 year period with no end in sight.

Seles had relegated Graf to only winning the singles title at Wimbledon among the biggest events in women's tennis.

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 08:16 AM
...
Seles had relegated Graf to only winning the singles title at Wimbledon among the biggest events in women's tennis.


That was only because Graf didn't make the finals.
Don't forget that she made only 33 % of major finals in that 90/92 period whereas she made 90 % of major finals before and after. And if we throw in then that Graf was 3-1 H2H EVEN in Seles' two best years ever (91/92) it doesn't need rocket science that Seles's heyday would have been over anyway with Graf bouncing back in 93.

Take away those 2 clay-court wins Seles had in 1990 (within WEEKS after the Graf blackmail scandal exploded in the tabloids) and we have a whopping 10-3 career H2H between Graf and Seles. And that sums it up quite nicely. On a great day Seles could beat Graf. But usually Graf had Seles' number.
At the end of the day the 22-9 slam tally is very favourable towards Seles.

Sam L
Oct 30th, 2005, 08:32 AM
That was only because Graf didn't make the finals.


Well Mr Obvious, thanks for the most redundant statement of the day. :rolleyes:

Oh and BTW, let's look at the slam finals the two played BEFORE the stabbing.

You have Seles 3-1 advantage over Graf. Ho hum!

Sure Steffi beat Monica in San Antonio, Hamburg blah blah, who cares. They weren't slams.

Before the stabbing, Monica brought the goods to the slams.

dinhd82
Oct 30th, 2005, 08:41 AM
A player getting injured by the wear and tear of the game isn't shocking, it's sad but not shocking, players get injured all the time.

A player getting stabbed on the court, where the only worry they should have is losing, that is SHOCKING! Has it happened more than 1?

Rub
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:03 AM
24. Shuai Peng defeats Kim Clijsters 6-4, 6-4... unbelievable :eek:

Joana
Oct 30th, 2005, 09:16 AM
I am famililar. I must say that the Munich Olympics terrorist attacks were, to me, not as shocking because the 11 athletes who died didn't get attacked because they were amazing athletes. They died because of political stupidity.

You are extremely stupid.

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:18 AM
Oh and BTW, let's look at the slam finals the two played BEFORE the stabbing.

You have Seles 3-1 advantage over Graf. Ho hum!

Sure Steffi beat Monica in San Antonio, Hamburg blah blah, who cares. They weren't slams. ...

No-one denies that slams are more important than Tier I or II tournaments.
Nevertheless Seles' FO 90 win has less significance than those 1991 Graf wins when we discuss what would have happened in 93/94. Because it was one year earlier.

And no-one would conclude that because of those 90-93 results Seles would have WON 75 % of slam matches against Graf and LOST 100 % of non-slam matches in the next years. Wait a minute - perhaps some Selesian morons ... ?

Face it: When Seles was #1 in 91/93 Graf won 3 of 5 matches. The two closest ones where those won by Seles ...

tennis aus
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:24 AM
A player getting stabbed on the court, where the only worry they should have is losing, that is SHOCKING! Has it happened more than 1?

NO, it never happened to anyone in the 130 year history of the sport. And as Bud Collins would put it " Nobody is really sure why the horrible attack happened"...

Greenout
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:26 AM
24. Shuai Peng defeats Kim Clijsters 6-4, 6-4... unbelievable :eek:


Don't make jokes about this!

It's people like the warped Seles physical attacker/offender of this tragic incident in tennis infamy that boards like WTAworld.com should try to discourage. Some of the utter contempt and hatred the players get nowadays is scary.

I dont' care if it's two people in the 150's ranking- playing a Tier IV. Horrible things like this should never happen.

tennis aus
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Don't make jokes about this!

It's people like the warped Seles physical attacker/offender of this tragic incident in tennis infamy that boards like WTAworld.com should try to discourage. Some of the utter contempt and hatred the players get nowadays is scary.

I dont' care if it's two people in the 150's ranking- playing a Tier IV. Horrible things like this should never happen.

I agree. It's been tolerated for too long.

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:39 AM
NO, it never happened to anyone in the 130 year history of the sport. And as Bud Collins would put it " Nobody is really sure why the horrible attack happened"...


Same reason as John Lennon was murdered and Ronald Reagan was shot.
Assassination attempts on famous people is nothing new in the world, buddy ...

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:42 AM
Don't make jokes about this!

It's people like the warped Seles physical attacker/offender of this tragic incident in tennis infamy that boards like WTAworld.com should try to discourage. Some of the utter contempt and hatred the players get nowadays is scary.

I dont' care if it's two people in the 150's ranking- playing a Tier IV. Horrible things like this should never happen.


Parche never was a tennis fan.
You just don't get it. Perhaps because you didn't follow the trial back then.

Or do you think John Hinckley was a movie fan ... ? :rolleyes:

dinhd82
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:44 AM
Same reason as John Lennon was murdered and Ronald Reagan was shot.
Assassination attempts on famous people is nothing new in the world, buddy ...

We're talking about tennis buddy. If we go your way of thinking, people have knee surgery everyday, no biggey.

Greenout
Oct 30th, 2005, 10:51 AM
Parche never was a tennis fan.
You just don't get it. Perhaps because you didn't follow the trial back then.

Or do you think John Hinckley was a movie fan ... ? :rolleyes:


The same could be said for alot of people on this board, that "hate" on one or two players in troll mode everytime they see that person's name in the thread topic.

These people don't seem to be tennis fans either.


Even, a fight among spectators, with someone getting stab is criminal.
Things like this shouldn't be happening at tennis tournaments. End of story.

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 12:32 PM
We're talking about tennis buddy. If we go your way of thinking, people have knee surgery everyday, no biggey.


Wrong as always.

The Graf knee surgery was unique.
It was discussed even in medical conventions by internationally leading surgeons. It was the first time ever that ligaments were relocated in three dimensions in a professional sports person's knee. I do speak of "reconstructive knee surgery" here in WTAWorld for a reason. The medical community was quite sure that Graf had to be glad if she ever were able to walk properly again.

Steffi Graf post-return (in November 1998): "Many people had written me off a little bit. But they don't know Steffi Graf well!"
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Calimero377
Oct 30th, 2005, 12:36 PM
The same could be said for alot of people on this board, that "hate" on one or two players in troll mode everytime they see that person's name in the thread topic.

These people don't seem to be tennis fans either.


Even, a fight among spectators, with someone getting stab is criminal.
Things like this shouldn't be happening at tennis tournaments. End of story.


I agree. When I was younger and a part of the soccer hooligan scene I didn't like knifes at all. I prefered to beat up opposing fans with my hands (and feet sometimes ... ). :angel:

tennis aus
Oct 30th, 2005, 06:21 PM
The same could be said for alot of people on this board, that "hate" on one or two players in troll mode everytime they see that person's name in the thread topic.

These people don't seem to be tennis fans either.





I agree. Gunther Parche was not a true tennis fan but an obsessive delusional JEALOUS fan of Steffi Graf who did the stabbing to benefit Graf. And indeed he got wish, Graf benefitted the most.

alfajeffster
Oct 31st, 2005, 01:27 PM
Wrong as always.

The Graf knee surgery was unique.
It was discussed even in medical conventions by internationally leading surgeons. It was the first time ever that ligaments were relocated in three dimensions in a professional sports person's knee. I do speak of "reconstructive knee surgery" here in WTAWorld for a reason. The medical community was quite sure that Graf had to be glad if she ever were able to walk properly again.

Steffi Graf post-return (in November 1998): "Many people had written me off a little bit. But they don't know Steffi Graf well!"
:worship: :worship: :worship:

I remember Billie Jean King (who was no stranger to knee surgery) remarking that it was a mistake for Graf to not treat with the internationally recognized "best" knee surgeons. It was definitely a gamble, and she took the chance and won. Unfortunately for all of us, even though she still looks like she could compete and win, there is no way for her to be able to move on that knee now for a sustained amount of time.

Calimero377
Oct 31st, 2005, 01:39 PM
I remember Billie Jean King (who was no stranger to knee surgery) remarking that it was a mistake for Graf to not treat with the internationally recognized "best" knee surgeons. It was definitely a gamble, and she took the chance and won. Unfortunately for all of us, even though she still looks like she could compete and win, there is no way for her to be able to move on that knee now for a sustained amount of time.

"No way"?
Who knows?
The current top 10 should not be so sure ....

(OK, let's wait until Jaz Elle is in school age.)

Calimero377
Oct 31st, 2005, 01:44 PM
"No way"?
Who knows?
The current top 10 should not be so sure ....

(OK, let's wait until Jaz Elle is in school age.)


Thinking of Jaz Elle:

It's really a pity that Steffi didn't give birth to her daughter in, say 1993 (after all she met Agassi at the 92 Wimbledon champions dinner,didn't she?). Then Jaz would be in slam winning shape in 2009. Steffi could have played on the tour for some 10 more years (she wouldn't be 40 until 2009) and Jaz Elle would have taken over by then. Alas, it was not to be ... :sad:

alfajeffster
Oct 31st, 2005, 01:45 PM
"No way"?
Who knows?
The current top 10 should not be so sure ....

(OK, let's wait until Jaz Elle is in school age.)

Well, I shouldn't have said "no way", because the way Venus, Serena, Lindsay, and most of the other top players today shirk their commitments, Graf would probably not have to play all that many matches to win a tournament!:lol:

MariaWilliams
Oct 31st, 2005, 05:41 PM
I agree. Gunther Parche was not a true tennis fan but an obsessive delusional JEALOUS fan of Steffi Graf who did the stabbing to benefit Graf. And indeed he got wish, Graf benefitted the most.

Steffi Graf was so overrated as a tennis player. I wonder where her career would be without that german madman.

manu
Oct 31st, 2005, 06:50 PM
Nevertheless Seles' FO 90 win has less significance than those 1991 Graf wins when we discuss what would have happened in 93/94. Because it was one year earlier.

1990 was also closer to Steffi's peak - according to you at least - and further away from Monica's. Sounds like a pretty valid reference if you ask me, even one that should play into Steffi's hands.

Overall, I think it's very fair to take the '90-'93 period as a valid period to take a look at how Seles and Graf matched up. Even more so because, according to you, Seles' peak years were 91-92, and Steffi had a 3-1 record against Monica in that period! So why not take '90 and '93 into account, years closer to Steffi's peak(s) (I consider '88-'89 as peak years, as well as '93, because 1) as you said, Steffi began to "improve" - however the meaning of that word comes across as a bit awkward IMO when used to describe such a great player - and 2) she won 3 Slams in that year)? That sounds a lot more logical to me than your theory: namely using her rival's peak years (and your fave's - assumed - lesser years) to prove Steffi's dominance.

So, when we take a look at the Steffi-Monica matches played in '90-'93, we get this head-to-head:

1990 BERLIN-GERMAN OPEN CLAY (O) F M. SELES 6-4 6-3

1990 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) F M. SELES 7-6(6) 6-4

1991 US HARDCOURTS HARD (O) F S. GRAF 6-4 6-3

1991 CITIZEN CUP CLAY (O) F S. GRAF 7-5 6-7(4) 6-3

1992 FRENCH OPEN CLAY (O) F M. SELES 6-2 3-6 10-8

1992 WIMBLEDON GRASS (O) F S. GRAF 6-2 6-1

1993 AUSTRALIAN OPEN HARD (O) F M. SELES 4-6 6-3 6-2

Seles leads 4:3

And no-one would conclude that because of those 90-93 results Seles would have WON 75 % of slam matches against Graf and LOST 100 % of non-slam matches in the next years. Wait a minute - perhaps some Selesian morons ... ?

Don't you think concluding the opposite - Seles barely winning any more significant matches and tournaments - would sound a lot more irrational?

Face it: When Seles was #1 in 91/93 Graf won 3 of 5 matches. The two closest ones where those won by Seles ...

As I said, why not include '90? As you said, that year still includes a few months of Steffi's peak - according to you, of course - while 91 doesn't contain any of her top months. In addition, Seles wasn't in absolute peak form yet in contrast to '91/'92/early '93 - again, all according to you - so if anyone should benefit from including 1990 in their H2H, that person should be Steffi.

But if we do that, we don't see Steffi having that absolute edge you are speaking of. On the contrary, we see that MONICA has the edge there, as she leads their H2H 4-3 in those years.

Don't argue with me that Monica's wins were all close affairs and Steffi's all blowouts. Steffi had exactly 1 blowout win over Monica during that period, coming on arguably her best surface (she won 7 Slams on it) and obviously her opponent's worst. Then another convincing (but not to be called easy by any means) 2-set win, and that's it. The other win was a true battle, and that's where Steffi's victory count ends.

Monica had 2 convincing 2-set victories over Steffi, one 3-set battle with a rather easy 3rd set, and, like Steffi, one seesaw-slugfest that could have gone either way.

Nothing. And I mean absolutely nothing. Nothing of that H2H IMO points towards Steffi as being the better player of the two. And I'm saying this as an admirer of both players' milestone careers.

SAEKeithSerena
Oct 31st, 2005, 07:27 PM
great article. poor monica

Calimero377
Oct 31st, 2005, 08:04 PM
...
As I said, why not include '90? As you said, that year still includes a few months of Steffi's peak - ...

To say Graf of May/June 90 was "peak" is perhaps the most retarded opinion I ever read in WTAWorld. Go to the "BILD" (biggest German tabloid) archives in Berlin and read the daily headlines from those weeks. It was a miracle that Steffi made the finals at GO and FO ....

manu
Nov 1st, 2005, 02:20 AM
To say Graf of May/June 90 was "peak" is perhaps the most retarded opinion I ever read in WTAWorld. Go to the "BILD" (biggest German tabloid) archives in Berlin and read the daily headlines from those weeks. It was a miracle that Steffi made the finals at GO and FO ....

The more I hear you saying that, the more I disbelieve it. Those 2 losses against Monica were Steffi's first two losses of 1990. Her overall '90 record was, even with those 2 consecutive losses to Seles, 72-5. That record is perfectly comparable to her '93 and '94 records, 76-6 and 58-6 respectively, or even better, especially considering she had only 1 loss to Monica in those 2 years combined (and won 4 consecutive Slams during that period).

Something else: Steffi had won 25 consecutive matches in 1990 (66 consecutive wins if you include '89, a career best!!) - in which she distributed 8 bagels - for the loss of only 3 sets (excluding '89) leading up to her loss against Monica at the German Open. Are you telling me she was in bad shape? Or in worse shape than in '91 and '92, when she had a 65-8 and a 71-7 record respectively, but which you DO include as valid seasons in their H2H? Are you telling me Steffi Graf was in bad shape when she had just won 66 consecutive matches? Where oh where has your logic wandered off to?

Another fact: leading up to her second loss to Monica at the French Open, Steffi had lost just 22 games in 6 French Open matches. Did you know that in her entire career, Steffi Graf only lost fewer games than that in her first 6 French Open matches ONCE (20 games in '88)? She beat clay-specialist Conchita Martinez and Jana Novotna with the loss of only 7 games combined in her 2 matches before the Final! Are you telling me she was in worse shape than she was in '91 and '92??

I am very much willing to check the "Bild" archives - if you would be so kind to give me a link/URL to them - but I actually think the facts speak for themselves.

manu
Nov 1st, 2005, 08:05 PM
Cali, you don't seem very enthusiastic to argue with me - in contrast to many other posters. Should I see that as a sign of surrendering ;) - which I cannot imagine myself! - or are you simply a little too busy these days? :)

Calimero377
Nov 1st, 2005, 08:47 PM
Cali, you don't seem very enthusiastic to argue with me -

I don't argue with retardos who ignore the blackmail scandal ALTHOUGH I have given enough information about it even for newbies like you who were toddlers back in 1990.

And now f*** off.

tennis aus
Nov 1st, 2005, 08:49 PM
Seles lost mostly to Graf by knife.

Seles was DOMINATING women's tennis before the stabbing incident took place in Hamburg, Germany at the end of April 1993.

Although the head-to-head record between Seles and Graf will not show just how dominant Seles was in women's tennis in the 30 months leading up to the stabbing ... the fact that Seles won 10 of the 12 biggest tournaments during that time says it all. Seles was beating the players who were beating Graf (or beating the players who beat the players who beat Graf) in these biggest events.

Hard to blame Seles for winning events that Graf could not reach the final round of in order to meet up with Seles.

During the years 1990-1993 both Martina Navratilova in her mid 30s and Monica Seles as a teenager had winning records vs. Steffi Graf.

Steffi Graf turned 21 on June 14, 1990.
Steffi Graf turned 22 on June 14, 1991.
Steffi Graf turned 23 on June 14, 1992.
Steffi Graf turned 24 on June 14, 1993.

Martina Navratilova turned 34 on October 18, 1990; and she turned 36 on October 18, 1992.

Monica Seles did not turn 20 until December 2, 1993 (over 7 months after the stabbing occurred).


1990-1993:
35-36 year old Navratilova 2-1 vs. Graf


September 1991
U.S. Open Semifinal
Hardcourt
35-year-old Martina Navratilova beat Steffi Graf 7-6, 6-7, 6-4

October 1992
Zurich Final
Indoor Carpet
Steffi Graf beat a 36-year-old Martina Navratilova 2-6, 7-5, 7-5

February 1993
Tokyo Semifinal
Indoor Carpet
36-year-old Martina Navratilova beat Steffi Graf 4-6, 6-3, 6-3


-------------------------------------------

1990-1993:
16-to-19-year-old Monica Seles was 4-3 vs. Graf


May 1990
Berlin Final
Clay
16-year-old Monica Seles beat Steffi Graf 6-4, 6-3

June 1990
Roland Garros Final
Clay
16-year-old Monica Seles beat Steffi Graf 7-6, 6-4

March 1991
San Antonio Final
Hardcourt
Steffi Graf beat 17-year-old Monica Seles 6-4, 6-3

May 1991
Hamburg Final
Clay
Steffi Graf beat 17-year-old Monica Seles 7-5, 6-7, 6-3

June 1992
Roland Garros Final
Clay
18-year-old Monica Seles beat Steffi Graf 6-2, 3-6, 10-8

July 1992
Wimbledon Final
Grass
Steffi Graf beat 18-year-old Monica Seles 6-2, 6-1

January 1993
Australian Open Final
Rubber (Rebound Ace)
19-year-old Monica Seles beat Steffi Graf 4-6, 6-3, 6-2

Veritas
Nov 1st, 2005, 08:51 PM
Monica had it bad :( Only person to have been stabbed by a deranged spectator. And had her career derailed when her form was still strong. Came at a pretty inconvenient time...

manu
Nov 1st, 2005, 09:00 PM
I don't argue with retardos who ignore the blackmail scandal ALTHOUGH I have given enough information about it even for newbies like you who were toddlers back in 1990.

And now f*** off.

:lol: Take it easy, no need to be angry! I'm just willing to have a decent argument with you, nothing more, nothing less. I don't need to "prove" anything.