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View Full Version : How much does the absence of Jen, Martina, Monica, etc hurt the women's game?


JennyS
Oct 26th, 2005, 09:43 PM
During the course of the season, I noticed a couple of sports writers (Liz Clarke and Bruce Jenkins) claim that Jennifer wasn't missed at all this year. As a Jen fan, my first thought was, yeah f-ing right. It was obvious they don't like Jennifer and instead of saying "I don't miss her", they put those feelings into the tennis fanbase. However, what if we took that statement seriously? If a popular 3 time Grand Slam winner, who has played in over a dozen thrilling Grand Slam matches in recent years, and recently wound up as talk show fodder for "dating" a porn hunk, is NOT MISSED, then that pretty much says that none of the players even matter.

IMO, I think that the opinions expressed by these two writers: that Jennifer is basically expendable and not important to the game of tennis sucks. The game would be so much better if Jen, MOnica, Martina, Justine, Serena, and everyone else was healthy and playing. How much more exciting would the FO be if Guga were contending again? ETc. Etc.

I don't get the mentality that as long as you have two players hitting the ball back and forth, it doesn't matter who the heck is playing. Maybe we should just clone Ivo Karlovic 500 times and let everyone else retire while the clones serve each other to a billion tiebreaks.

pav
Oct 26th, 2005, 09:53 PM
They are/were wonderful Players and of course are all missed,but the senario is very similar to a pack of pigdogs,You have this good dog Who is Your main finder /bailer Who basically finds the old pig and bails Him up till the rest get there after hearing His/Her steady barking. I always used to think,what if that dog comes to a sticky end(which is always on the cards with a pig) but when it happens there is always another young dog that steps up and takes Their place, not as good at first,but after a while You stop moaning about poor old departed one.
I think this applies a bit with tennis Players,never forgotten, but more or less replaced

Sir Stefwhit
Oct 27th, 2005, 06:03 AM
I dearly miss Monica and would love the idea of Hingis coming back but they've been away from the tour long enough for the tour to have moved on from them. JCap's pressence is more recent and she's got more of history with the Beligians, the Russians, and few of the others who've made their way up the ranks. If both Monica and Hingis could maintain a competitive level of play with the Big girls it would be great to have them back, but with each passing day it seems more and more unlikely. JCap still has time but not much...

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Oct 27th, 2005, 06:19 AM
it would be awesome if players like Hingis, Seles, Capriati, Dokic, Kournikova all came back they were (still are) some of my fav players and they make it more intense i think if they were all back and others favs like Clijsters, Sharapova, Davenport, Myskina, Williams Sisters there would be more battles for No1 and it would make each Tournament more exciting than ever.

oddkayla
Oct 27th, 2005, 06:47 AM
it would be awesome if players like Hingis, Seles, Capriati, Dokic, Kournikova all came back they were (still are) some of my fav players and they make it more intense i think if they were all back and others favs like Clijsters, Sharapova, Davenport, Myskina, Williams Sisters there would be more battles for No1 and it would make each Tournament more exciting than ever.

I would have taken this statement seriously if you did not have Kournikova in there. Anyone interested purely in tennis and tournament and GS wins knows that Kournikova was not a factor in that regard.

The players whose absence would hurt the game are those who are right there in the second week of slams contending and winning!

As Martina once said after beating Anna in the fourth round of one of the slams, I forget which one "Now the tournament begins for the stars"!!!!!

If I remember correctly,Anna reached the semi-finals of Wimbledon, and the Quarterfinals of the Aussie Open and not much. And no I'm not talking about Doubles.

sixfeetfree
Oct 27th, 2005, 07:07 AM
It's always easy to imagine what a season would be like with all the experienced and proven players in contention and playing well. Absolutely it would make for a more exciting and competitive season and in doing that, the game itself would suffer, to a point, if you removed several of those players that have proven their ability to win. I also have to echo Sir Stefwhits comments about the length of time a player has been out as to what effect that absence would ultimately have. Even so, I agree that the women's tour would be more exciting and competitive if players like Jen, Monica, Hingis, etc. were still playing.

Greenout
Oct 27th, 2005, 07:19 AM
During the course of the season, I noticed a couple of sports writers (Liz Clarke and Bruce Jenkins) claim that Jennifer wasn't missed at all this year. As a Jen fan, my first thought was, yeah f-ing right. It was obvious they don't like Jennifer and instead of saying "I don't miss her", they put those feelings into the tennis fanbase. However, what if we took that statement seriously? If a popular 3 time Grand Slam winner, who has played in over a dozen thrilling Grand Slam matches in recent years, and recently wound up as talk show fodder for "dating" a porn hunk, is NOT MISSED, then that pretty much says that none of the players even matter.

IMO, I think that the opinions expressed by these two writers: that Jennifer is basically expendable and not important to the game of tennis sucks. The game would be so much better if Jen, MOnica, Martina, Justine, Serena, and everyone else was healthy and playing. How much more exciting would the FO be if Guga were contending again? ETc. Etc.

I don't get the mentality that as long as you have two players hitting the ball back and forth, it doesn't matter who the heck is playing. Maybe we should just clone Ivo Karlovic 500 times and let everyone else retire while the clones serve each other to a billion tiebreaks.


I'm not surprised about Liz Clarke saying this (bitch!), but Bruce Jenkins? He's usually good about these things, but alot of the sports writers this year jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, and seemed bored of the WTA.

Jen is missed. I can see so many loop holes in draws, where player X may not have gone on nor won the events. There were alot of early year flukes, and if Jen was in the draw I wonder if some of these players would have made the finals.

I think it mainly affects the up, and coming players or the ones like Patty or Dechy rather than the top ones. Still I don't think the early Middle East events, and the summer hardcourt ones would have had the same outcome. I do believe the clay events, and grass events would've had the same results, but it's the indoor stuff, and the hardcourt ones that may have had different outcomes.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Oct 27th, 2005, 07:24 AM
I would have taken this statement seriously if you did not have Kournikova in there. Anyone interested purely in tennis and tournament and GS wins knows that Kournikova was not a factor in that regard.

The players whose absence would hurt the game are those who are right there in the second week of slams contending and winning!

As Martina once said after beating Anna in the fourth round of one of the slams, I forget which one "Now the tournament begins for the stars"!!!!!

If I remember correctly,Anna reached the semi-finals of Wimbledon, and the Quarterfinals of the Aussie Open and not much. And no I'm not talking about Doubles.

even if she has never won a tournament i still think she was a great player the reasons she never won in singles was all mental she has had great matches against some of the top players and she still made it intense and enjoyable to watch.

Zauber
Oct 27th, 2005, 07:29 AM
Kournikova was a very good player. I am so tired of people belittling her tennis game.
She was the number two junior second only to one of the all time greats Martina Hingis.
She reats the top 20 at a very youg age and stayes there for substancial amount of time. She played the top tournaments never the small ones going for an easy tournament win.
She was a very very good top 20 she was even in the top ten at a very youg age.
Oviously your tennis career declined because of outside activities
But she was one of the top tennis players and one of the very best athletes yes athletes on the tour.
Why this distortion of her accomplishments as a tennis player, just because she was gorgeous and made a lot of money with that?

sixfeetfree
Oct 27th, 2005, 07:37 AM
Kournikova was a very good player. I am so tired of people belittling her tennis game.
She was the number two junior second only to one of the all time greats Martina Hingis.
She reats the top 20 at a very youg age and stayes there for substancial amount of time. She played the top tournaments never the small ones going for an easy tournament win.
She was a very very good top 20 she was even in the top ten at a very youg age.
Oviously your tennis career declined because of outside activities
But she was one of the top tennis players and one of the very best athletes yes athletes on the tour.
Why this distortion of her accomplishments as a tennis player, just because she was gorgeous and made a lot of money with that?
I would imagine breaking the top 20 is a feat that few on the women's tour will ever see. Anna Kournikova broke the top 10, you can't do that on looks, the girl has talent - and I suspect that she could probably break back in if she were so inclined although it would be tougher now because of all the young talent. But make no mistake, Anna had the skills to crack the top 10 and no one can erase that.

aussie_stars
Oct 27th, 2005, 07:55 AM
Anna reached her career high of number 8 in November 2000, she then went on to make the QF of the Aus Open in '01 and then was struck down with injury and didnt play any other slam in '01. At this stage she still had not turned 20!!! don't disrespect her....people stupidly forget what kind of player anna was and choose to beat up on her about what kind of player she was in '02 and '03.

In '96 as a 15 yr old in only her 2nd tour event she reached the 4th round of the US Open losing to Graf. At 16 yrs of age she beat 4 top 10 players in consecutive days to reach the final of Miami (defeating Seles, Martinez, Davenport and Sanchez Vicario!!!!), she gave Graf only her 3rd loss on grass in the 90's!!,

She had a record 2 year run without losing to anyone outside the top 15!!!

On top of her singles she was a great doubles player, winning 2 slams, 2 year end championships and was year end number 1.

She doesnt get the respect she deserves. SHe was at the height of her career at the start of 2001 when all the injuries hit.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Oct 27th, 2005, 08:30 AM
I'm so glad that people understand that she had a great game one which i thought was enjoyable to watch.

Sir Stefwhit
Oct 27th, 2005, 08:56 AM
...she gave Graf only her 3rd loss on grass in the 90's!!...
Her one win over Steffi was at the QF's of Eastbourne, it wasn't a 3rd round loss. ...and yes Anna was hyped up during the time she was playing, but the way she's viewed now- she's underated. She was a force and on a good day could give any top player some tough competition.

I would say she was the modern day Petrova.

hingis-seles
Oct 27th, 2005, 09:12 AM
Her one win over Steffi was at the QF's of Eastbourne, it wasn't a 3rd round loss. ...and yes Anna was hyped up during the time she was playing, but the way she's viewed now- she's underated. She was a force and on a good day could give any top player some tough competition.

I would say she was the modern day Petrova.

He said THIRD loss on grasscourts in the the 1990s, not 3rd round loss. ;)

aussie_stars
Oct 27th, 2005, 09:19 AM
He said THIRD loss on grasscourts in the the 1990s, not 3rd round loss. ;)

Glad some people can still read ;)

oddkayla
Oct 27th, 2005, 09:34 AM
Anna reached her career high of number 8 in November 2000, she then went on to make the QF of the Aus Open in '01 and then was struck down with injury and didnt play any other slam in '01. At this stage she still had not turned 20!!! don't disrespect her....people stupidly forget what kind of player anna was and choose to beat up on her about what kind of player she was in '02 and '03.

In '96 as a 15 yr old in only her 2nd tour event she reached the 4th round of the US Open losing to Graf. At 16 yrs of age she beat 4 top 10 players in consecutive days to reach the final of Miami (defeating Seles, Martinez, Davenport and Sanchez Vicario!!!!), she gave Graf only her 3rd loss on grass in the 90's!!,

She had a record 2 year run without losing to anyone outside the top 15!!!

On top of her singles she was a great doubles player, winning 2 slams, 2 year end championships and was year end number 1.

She doesnt get the respect she deserves. SHe was at the height of her career at the start of 2001 when all the injuries hit.

It is these attitutes that Anna adopted and prevented her from reaching her true potential.

What they serve to do is just undermine her because she was such an underachiever.

I do not care what rank she had in juniors. Same as now I dont care who is ranked what in juniors. I watch the WTA not juniors.

Anna had tremendous potential and capabilities. What she did over the course of four tournaments or so, she was never capable of translating them into an accomplished career.

The stats do not lie. How many tournaments did she win? 0. How many finals did she reach? 3. None of them majors. History will judge Anna as an underachiever based on her potential and abilities. She was a tremendous athelete. She was supremely talented, and she never took advantage of that. It is because of that that she is criticized, not how she looks.

She was just a coward who failed to reach her potential. People talk about an injured thumb!!!! Please!!!!

aussie_stars
Oct 27th, 2005, 09:47 AM
I do not care what rank she had in juniors. Same as now I dont care who is ranked what in juniors. I watch the WTA not juniors.

I didn't mention juniors, it was someone else, so don't quote me and say that

Anna had tremendous potential and capabilities. What she did over the course of four tournaments or so, she was never capable of translating them into an accomplished career.

4 tournaments or so? are you serious? she went 2 years without losing to anyone outside the top15. She was a very good player from 98-2000.

The stats do not lie. How many tournaments did she win? 0. How many finals did she reach? 3. None of them majors.

She made 4 finals thanks.

She also continually played the top events, unlike todays young girls who start out in the tier 4 and 3's. Let me tell you, i think it is a greater achievement to make tier 1 finals, Wimbledon SF and US open 4th round as a 15/16 yr old than to win a tier 4 title against opposition ranked no higher than 50.

She was just a coward who failed to reach her potential. People talk about an injured thumb!!!! Please!!!!

So you think she was injured for so long with a thumb injury?? If so, please go look into Anna's career a bit more before slagging off on her and calling her a coward.

KimC&MariaSNo1's
Oct 27th, 2005, 11:40 AM
it was alot more than just a broken thumb and we are not talking about how much she choked or what she achieved (or not) Im saying how good a player she actually was there is a difference between the two.

Volcana
Oct 27th, 2005, 11:50 AM
From the technical perspective, Hingis is missed for more than Seles or Capriati, becasue her game was more different. However, that's a WHOLE lotta spots in GS semis and finals that other players have gotta chance to fill. Would the term 'Russian Revolution' have ever come into vogue?

GoDominique
Oct 27th, 2005, 11:56 AM
Not that much.

Jenny.C.Fan
Oct 27th, 2005, 12:45 PM
The tour isn't the same without players such as jen, monica and martina.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 27th, 2005, 01:32 PM
you all got to leave the tour sometime
old mother time catches up with you.

sixfeetfree
Oct 27th, 2005, 01:35 PM
you all got to leave the tour sometime
old mother time catches up with you.
Ohhhh! I'm telling Mother Time that you called her old... yer in dark doo doo bub!

Shenay La Soul
Oct 27th, 2005, 01:40 PM
How much does the absence of Jen, Martina, Monica, etc hurt the women's game?

Not much. The dominant players would still dominate even if they were still active. That's not to say that Capriati, Hingis and Seles wouldn't steal some of the thunder but their absence hasn't hurt the game.

marmite1
Oct 27th, 2005, 01:42 PM
It doesn't hurt the game because the definition of women's tennis doesn't rely on any of the women stated.

TonyP
Oct 27th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Of course, all these players are missed a great deal and that includes Anna. Ask any of the promoters or tournament organizers if they would like to have Hingis, Seles, Capriati and Kournikova playing right alongside Venus and Serena and Justine and Kim and Lindsay.

Have all of them healthy and playing good tennis? That would be the dream of any tournament organizer and of most of the fans.

As things stand right now, the YEC at Staples Center looks like it is going to have about three players with any real star power in it, four if Venus plays.

With Myskina also ending her season, I cannot imagine what the organizers are going through.

This sport has always been built on star power and while you have some promising up and comers in it now, only hard core fans know of or care about the up and comers. the casual fan wants to see the stars and fewer of them are twinkling these days.

Bubba08
Oct 27th, 2005, 02:18 PM
They aren't missed :wavey:
Other players 's personnalities and games took their place ;)

the bambi
Oct 27th, 2005, 02:18 PM
Of course, all these players are missed a great deal and that includes Anna. Ask any of the promoters or tournament organizers if they would like to have Hingis, Seles, Capriati and Kournikova playing right alongside Venus and Serena and Justine and Kim and Lindsay.

Have all of them healthy and playing good tennis? That would be the dream of any tournament organizer and of most of the fans.

As things stand right now, the YEC at Staples Center looks like it is going to have about three players with any real star power in it, four if Venus plays.

With Myskina also ending her season, I cannot imagine what the organizers are going through.

This sport has always been built on star power and while you have some promising up and comers in it now, only hard core fans know of or care about the up and comers. the casual fan wants to see the stars and fewer of them are twinkling these days.

i'm glad you included anna because she is definitely a draw, despite what a lot of us think of her. cappy, hingis and seles can still pack them in, even at one of those lame ass exo's they have in december. so, yeah it's hurt the women's game mainly because even while players like dementieva and momo are strong competitors, they just don't fill seats the way the biggers names do.