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Rocketta
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:23 PM
USTA invests in Indian Wells pro tourneyOctober 24, 2005

INDIAN WELLS, Calif. (AP) -- The U.S. Tennis Association has invested in the Pacific Life Open, helping keep the high-profile pro event from moving to China in 2007.

The USTA's board of directors said Monday that it had approved a 50 percent buyout of management firm IMG's interest in the event that combines the men's and women's pro tours. IMG had wanted to sell to a Chinese group.

Raymond Moore and Charlie Pasarell of PM Sports own the other 50 percent.

The group owning the other half is the USTA, Tennis magazine owners George Mackin and Bob Miller, as well as others who have yet to be identified.

Also, the USTA will take a major role in marketing, sponsorship and television for the two-week tournament, held in March. This year's women's tournament had a $2.1 million total purse. The men's event was worth $2.9 million. ``The Pacific Life Open is one of the world's most prestigious tennis tournaments with a significant profile in the U.S. sports landscape,'' said Franklin Johnson, USTA president and chairman of the board. The USTA's investment is subject to completion of an agreement with the tournament's other investors and IMG.

Rocketta
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:24 PM
I thought Pacific Life was doing so well according to fans why did IMG want to sell it? :scratch:

Knizzle
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Ketta :lol:

Rocketta
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:27 PM
Ketta :lol:

what?? That was a genuine question. :lol:

Knizzle
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:28 PM
what?? That was a genuine question. :lol:

I know, you still crack me up. :lol:

tenn_ace
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:32 PM
what a horrible news for Williams fans... my thoughts and prayers are with you :wavey:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:37 PM
They would've never had the problem to begin with if the sisters were still there ;)

Rocketta
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:37 PM
what a horrible news for Williams fans... my thoughts and prayers are with you :wavey:

what's horrible about it? :confused: An American tournament stays in America but has to be bailed out for that to happen....yeah Williams fans are crying in their milk. :lol:

Pengwin
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:39 PM
what's horrible about it? :confused: An American tournament stays in America but has to be bailed out for that to happen....yeah Williams fans are crying in their milk. :lol:

Sisters like China, Sisters don't like IW :shrug:.

Rocketta
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:42 PM
Sisters like China, Sisters don't like IW :shrug:.

eh, he talked about Williams fans not Venus and Serena Williams....:unsure:

besides they play Miami and it would seriously have to be in a incredible advantageous spot in the calandar before Venus or Serena would play it if it were moved to China...highly unlikely if you ask me so once again what's there for a Williams fan to be upset about? :scratch:

griffin
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:57 PM
They would've never had the problem to begin with if the sisters were still there ;)

Venus and Serena not playing hurts, but starting out with a hare-brained financing scheme is what was and is killing them.

Paneru
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:58 PM
what a horrible news for Williams fans... my thoughts and prayers are with you :wavey:

How so?

Simply means both ladies will be doing what
they've done for all these years now.

If I'm not mistaken, it's not Williams Fans
that bring up the issue of them and IW
like clockwork every year. ;)

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Let the USTA have Indian Wells. At least they didn't get their hands on Venus and Serena. Richard Williams was a genius to keep them out of that mess.

-Sonic-
Oct 24th, 2005, 09:35 PM
It'd mean another trip outside the US for Lindsay, and we all know how she hates that. So good.

rjd1111
Oct 24th, 2005, 09:49 PM
I thought Pacific Life was doing so well according to fans why did IMG want to sell it? :scratch:


It had a severe lack of Williams

rjd1111
Oct 24th, 2005, 09:51 PM
what a horrible news for Williams fans... my thoughts and prayers are with you :wavey:


They still won't make any money as long as it stays Williamsless.

Volcana
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:00 PM
I thought Pacific Life was doing so well according to fans why did IMG want to sell it? :scratch:Pacific Life has a difficult financial situation that actualy has nothing to do with the women's tour. Well, not much to do with the women's tour. Here are some of the details

Indian Wells built a fancy-schmancy new tennis facility. Cost, $77 million. There was some kind of deal involving the ATP that made the financing seem attractive. Just now, I can't find a source as to what that was. However, the ATP side of the deal fell through, leaving the tournament with a mortgage at 8%.

What that works out to in practice is debt service to the tune of 3.9 million dollare per years.

Thus, every year since 2002, Indian Wells has set attendance records, and has increased revenue, and every year they've lost money.

Would having Venus and Serena playing help? Sure. Not attendance. They're already setting records. But rather the presence of the two most popular American players means they can charge higher advertising rates. Would that mean 3.9 million dollars every year? Quite possibly ONE million. You're talking about advertising over a two week tournament, not a one day event. But almost FOUR million? When TV contracts now have clauses based on who's playing? V & S would have to a) play every year, b) be on opposite side of the draw, AND c) they would both have to make the semis. Venus and Serena haven't been healthy enough that that would have been true the last three years anyway.

So I don't think you can argue that what happened in 2001 is what caused the tournament's current problems. Although .... bad things tend to happen to people who cross Venus Williams.

NOTE: Remember all the hoo-hah last month about Indian Wells becoming a mandatory tournament? At the time, I said that was absurd, it wasn't worth the controversy to the WTA. Well, maybe that's changed now. The USTA can significant incentives.

Rocketta
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:04 PM
Thanks for the info Volcana but I never said the tournament would be doing better or worse with or without Vee and Serena....I just thought it was doing so well from what the fans were saying and what you are saying is that it was/is doing well but the owners were dumb (which we already knew. :tape: ).

griffin
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:04 PM
Indian Wells built a fancy-schmancy new tennis facility. Cost, $77 million. There was some kind of deal involving the ATP that made the financing seem attractive. Just now, I can't find a source as to what that was. However, the ATP side of the deal fell through, leaving the tournament with a mortgage at 8%.


It wasn't the ATP - it was a high tech company signing on as a partner, and then going belly-up. My understanding is that any close inspection of the company's finances would have shown that they were, like a lot of the dotcomes, mostly smoke and mirrors.

*JR*
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:15 PM
It wasn't the ATP - it was a high tech company signing on as a partner, and then going belly-up. My understanding is that any close inspection of the company's finances would have shown that they were, like a lot of the dotcomes, mostly smoke and mirrors.
That was ISL, out of the ruins of which the ATP extracted most of the added revenue needed for the Masters Series... and from which money the ATP still managed to take, I'm told, a 34% commission on the deal! (And the main architect of that, in his last year or two @ the ATP? That's right: present WTA Czar Larry Scott).

alfajeffster
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:30 PM
It wasn't the ATP - it was a high tech company signing on as a partner, and then going belly-up. My understanding is that any close inspection of the company's finances would have shown that they were, like a lot of the dotcomes, mostly smoke and mirrors.

:clap2: I don't have time to respond to this as much as I'd like, but suffice to say it's nice to see the USTA doing something about a management group wanting to sell out a great US tournament like that, no matter what bad business decisions the tournament has made. That's one of the USTA's jobs. More tomorrow!

griffin
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:33 PM
More tomorrow!

You big tease, you ;)

Shooter
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:49 PM
Glad to hear the event is staying put. It's my favorite tournament to attend. Charlie Pasarell does a great job running it.

alfajeffster
Oct 25th, 2005, 01:18 PM
Franklin Johnson, our current USTA President, is a former President of the USTA Southern California Section. He has extensive experience as a tournament director in Southern California, and from my brief understanding, he has had a major hand in this action:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a223/alfajeffster/USTApres.jpg

Me being the perennial (and admittedly, sometimes harsh) critic of the USTA that I am (I renew my membership because I believe in it), I am very happy to see someone at the helm doing something really great like this. With all due respect to past presidents, we are at a point in the evolution of open tennis where it is actually becomming open. The Indian Wells Tennis Garden is one of the greatest places not only for professional tennis players to gather and ply their wares, it almost seamlessly meshes the fan experience with the players in a positive atmosphere that represents all that is possible with the proper management of tournaments. I've said it before, and I still would love to see the U.S. Open at Indian Wells instead of the ever-expanding cesspool at Flushing Meadow, which may make a ton of money for New York City, but the experience of going to see matches there live is anything but attractive or fan-friendly.

So Mr. Johnson, from one USTA member to another- GOOD JOB!

*JR*
Oct 25th, 2005, 01:37 PM
Sorry, but Frank Johnson's "keep it here @ any cost" philosophy is exemplary of the US-centric view that (the WTA) still has, despite the rest of the world developing new talent @ a far faster clip than we are. Count the weeks: 6 are totally blacked out on the schedule for the US Open, Key Biscayne, and IW. Add 1 week each (albeit with Tier III & IV's elsewhere) for Stanford, Carlsbad, Carson, and New Haven.

Thus, even with the YEC leaving next year: for 10 weeks of the 45 on the calendar, the US is the main venue for professional women's tennis. What, 8 wouldn't have been enough? :confused: (Russia has all of ONE, despite the # of highranked Russians on the tour). Even without a bailout, the 22% figure I gave above was ridiculous. @ least let these events pay their own fucking way! :rolleyes:

Penglover
Oct 25th, 2005, 02:05 PM
US just doesnt want China to get it as the event of purchasing of oil company before :angel:

hwanmig
Oct 25th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Franklin Johnson, our current USTA President, is a former President of the USTA Southern California Section. He has extensive experience as a tournament director in Southern California, and from my brief understanding, he has had a major hand in this action:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a223/alfajeffster/USTApres.jpg

Me being the perennial (and admittedly, sometimes harsh) critic of the USTA that I am (I renew my membership because I believe in it), I am very happy to see someone at the helm doing something really great like this. With all due respect to past presidents, we are at a point in the evolution of open tennis where it is actually becomming open. The Indian Wells Tennis Garden is one of the greatest places not only for professional tennis players to gather and ply their wares, it almost seamlessly meshes the fan experience with the players in a positive atmosphere that represents all that is possible with the proper management of tournaments. I've said it before, and I still would love to see the U.S. Open at Indian Wells instead of the ever-expanding cesspool at Flushing Meadow, which may make a ton of money for New York City, but the experience of going to see matches there live is anything but attractive or fan-friendly.

So Mr. Johnson, from one USTA member to another- GOOD JOB!

They should alternate it between IW and New York. But then again New york would go nuts with that.

alfajeffster
Oct 25th, 2005, 02:35 PM
Sorry, but Frank Johnson's "keep it here @ any cost" philosophy is exemplary of the US-centric view that (the WTA) still has, despite the rest of the world developing new talent @ a far faster clip than we are. Count the weeks: 6 are totally blacked out on the schedule for the US Open, Key Biscayne, and IW. Add 1 week each (albeit with Tier III & IV's elsewhere) for Stanford, Carlsbad, Carson, and New Haven.

Thus, even with the YEC leaving next year: for 10 weeks of the 45 on the calendar, the US is the main venue for professional women's tennis. What, 8 wouldn't have been enough? :confused: (Russia has all of ONE, despite the # of highranked Russians on the tour). Even without a bailout, the 22% figure I gave above was ridiculous. @ least let these events pay their own fucking way! :rolleyes:

I prefer to look at it from a different perspective. Tournaments, and in particular, great tournaments all have one thing in common: a history. Even the big ones that have not been around for as long as the majors, like Key Biscayne and Indian Wells, have begun weaving a tapestry of memories of great tennis matches that players and fans alike can identify with. The fact that the US has a disproportionate amount of tournaments is commensurate with several things- it's history and its continuing contribution to the game. When the Russian Tennis Federation has the wherewithall to be able to bail out an event, then talk to me. Hell, we could dissect exactly how much money all those fucking Russian girls extracted from USA training, coaches, and tennis academies, and then, in the light of day, the nit-picking and chiseling away at the United States doesn't look like such an attractive world view, now does it?

*JR*
Oct 25th, 2005, 03:54 PM
Hell, we could dissect exactly how much money all those fucking Russian girls extracted from USA training, coaches, and tennis academies, and then, in the light of day, the nit-picking and chiseling away at the United States doesn't look like such an attractive world view, now does it?
Duh, those "fucking Russian girls" were treated as investments, as when IMG gave Anna, Sharky, and whoever else scholarships to Bollettieri's. (These weren't paid for by the USTA or the US taxpayer). Your previously stated blissful ignorance about which of the "alphabet soup organizations in the game" do what is such that you can't make this distinction. :rolleyes:

alfajeffster
Oct 25th, 2005, 04:02 PM
Duh, those "fucking Russian girls" were treated as investments, as when IMG gave Anna, Sharky, and whoever else scholarships to Bollettieri's. (These weren't paid for by the USTA or the US taxpayer). Your previously stated blissful ignorance about which of the "alphabet soup organizations in the game" do what is such that you can't make this distinction. :rolleyes:

Oh, I'm sorry, I did miss something- where are IMG headquarters located? China? The Ukraine? No? Your propensity toward only posting in :rolleyes: mode, replete with expressions of "fucking" and "duh" is about as unattractive as your avatar, but still, not enough to prevent me from continuing an intelligent and polite conversation, if you're interested.

*JR*
Oct 25th, 2005, 05:14 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, I did miss something- where are IMG headquarters located? China? The Ukraine? No? Your propensity toward only posting in :rolleyes: mode, replete with expressions of "fucking" and "duh" is about as unattractive as your avatar, but still, not enough to prevent me from continuing an intelligent and polite conversation, if you're interested.
My avatar is in honor of the late, great Senator Robert F. Kennedy. :worship: And "fucking Russian girls" was a direct quote of you. Re. IMG, the fact that a Yuri Sharapov brought his daughter where their Nick Bollettieri would see her doesn't change that she got started in Russia. And many others in the upper rungs trained there @ least as juniors; some still do, and others in Europe. Kapisch, tovarisch?

alfajeffster
Oct 25th, 2005, 05:38 PM
My avatar is in honor of the late, great Senator Robert F. Kennedy. :worship: And "fucking Russian girls" was a direct quote of you. Re. IMG, the fact that a Yuri Sharapov brought his daughter where their Nick Bollettieri would see her doesn't change that she got started in Russia. And many others in the upper rungs trained there @ least as juniors; some still do, and others in Europe. Kapisch, tovarisch?

"Fucking Russian girls" was a direct response to your bringing FUCK into the conversation in the first place. I have nothing against the word. I just make a habit not to use it in a polite conversation. I am well aware of who Bobby Kennedy was, as well as Sirhan Sirhan. I was alive when both Kennedys were assasinated.

But back to the topic at hand- the USTA stepping in and doing something to keep Indian Wells a California tradition versus allowing it to be sold and moved to China. What's wrong with the USTA looking after tournaments in the US, and making the effort to keep the history alive? I remember living in Northern California in the 80s, and every year we all looked forward to watching the tournament in Palm Springs- one year in particular Boris Becker played Stefan Edberg, and everyone I knew was talking about that match afterward. Another year (might have been 1990) Andre Agassi played a fantastic final against Stefan Edberg. The tournament has a wonderful history. Why uproot any tournament like this and move it to another venue (even staying here in the USA)? Keep it where it is and improve on it!

*JR*
Oct 25th, 2005, 06:59 PM
But back to the topic at hand- the USTA stepping in and doing something to keep Indian Wells a California tradition versus allowing it to be sold and moved to China. What's wrong with the USTA looking after tournaments in the US, and making the effort to keep the history alive? I remember living in Northern California in the 80s, and every year we all looked forward to watching the tournament in Palm Springs- one year in particular Boris Becker played Stefan Edberg, and everyone I knew was talking about that match afterward. Another year (might have been 1990) Andre Agassi played a fantastic final against Stefan Edberg. The tournament has a wonderful history. Why uproot any tournament like this and move it to another venue (even staying here in the USA)? Keep it where it is and improve on it!
The purpose of the USTA isn't to bail out tournaments. (As the former Long Island men's tourny merged into New Haven is a warmup event just B4 the US Open, that's different). If Charlie P. signed a real estate deal that was too expensive, that's his problem. Let the USTA spend its money on junior development, Challengers & Futures, recreational tennis, etc. (I know it does, but there's always more it could do).

Charlie and Butch Buchholz each "rolled the dice" by getting 2 weeks blocked out for IW and for KB. Both subsequently brought in IMG (50% in IW, more in KB I think). IMG doesn't subsidize "money burning ventures", so Charlie (and his partner Ray Moore) should have to "reap what they sowed" re. deals they freely entered into, IMO.

alfajeffster
Oct 25th, 2005, 08:07 PM
The purpose of the USTA isn't to bail out tournaments. (As the former Long Island men's tourny merged into New Haven is a warmup event just B4 the US Open, that's different). If Charlie P. signed a real estate deal that was too expensive, that's his problem. Let the USTA spend its money on junior development, Challengers & Futures, recreational tennis, etc. (I know it does, but there's always more it could do).

Charlie and Butch Buchholz each "rolled the dice" by getting 2 weeks blocked out for IW and for KB. Both subsequently brought in IMG (50% in IW, more in KB I think). IMG doesn't subsidize "money burning ventures", so Charlie (and his partner Ray Moore) should have to "reap what they sowed" re. deals they freely entered into, IMO.

Sounds like sour grapes from the "I M Greedy" corporate headquarters to me. I don't feel sorry for any company so engrossed in overseas private investment- especially when tennis is involved. And why shouldn't the USTA spend its money to rescue a tournament in exchange for a greater hand in the actual management of it and promotion of it? "Open" tennis is coming full circle.