PDA

View Full Version : What do you consider a "legitimate win"?


thelittlestelf
Oct 24th, 2005, 12:11 AM
A lot of people on the board keep mentioning, for example, that player X did not legitimately beat player Y because of Z.

Yes, Algebra is fun.

So, my question is what do you think it takes for a lower-ranked player to have a "legitimate win" over a higher-ranked player?

Blonde_Ambition7
Oct 24th, 2005, 12:22 AM
a win is win to me. but i think it helps if the higher ranked player is fit and healthy when they play.

Fingon
Oct 24th, 2005, 12:50 AM
well, it's difficult to establish a rule.

As blonde ambition said, if the top player is healthy and fit the win should count as a legitimate one but not always.

for me it has more to do with how each player's career is going.

For example, it wouldn't be too surprising if someone like Ana Ivanovic or Nicole Vaidisova beat a top player, they are players who are improving their games and at some point they can be able to produce the kind of tennis that would beat a top player, in other words, play like a top player themselves, if not regularly.

But when you see a player that has been around for a while, not showing signs of a sustained improvement, and all of a sudden they beat a top player you have to wonder what's wrong with the top player.

e.g Jidkova beating Serena in Linz last year, with all the due respect to Jidkova, she's been around for a while and never showed anything to make you think she could be a top player, and she beat Serena Williams indoors, then I have to think something is wrong with Serena, even if she doesn't say so. Some times it can be physical, some times it can be motivation, personal problems, whatever but for what I know, there is no way Jidkova would beat Serena indoors if Serena is healthy, fit, motivated and focused on her game.

You have also the example of Jill Craybas beating Serena on grass, you know that wouldn't happen under normal circumstances, but we all knew Serena was far from her best even before the tournament started, then it wasn't a shock. It was a legitimate win from the point of view that Jill won the match fair and square but everyone knows what the result would have been had Serena been playing even half her potential.

Myskin
Oct 24th, 2005, 02:44 AM
I think a win is a win! If the player did not retire well then it is a fair win!!!

Dominic
Oct 24th, 2005, 03:03 AM
For me, you have to see the match to say if its legitimate or not. If the top player is playing at her usual level and the lower one still finds a way to play better and come out on top then this is a legitimate victory.

Billy Moonshine
Oct 24th, 2005, 03:13 AM
All wins are legitimate.
NO EXCUSES!! If ur on the court, ur saying ur fit enough to play. So, if u lose and then say ` I was injured` etc it doesnt count cos u shouldnt have played.

Mother_Marjorie
Oct 24th, 2005, 03:27 AM
All wins are legitimate.
NO EXCUSES!! If ur on the court, ur saying ur fit enough to play. So, if u lose and then say ` I was injured` etc it doesnt count cos u shouldnt have played.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

In professional sports, if you show up to compete, there are no legitimate excuses....period. Because history doesn't record, "Oh, I was injured". It records a win, and a loss.

Jakeev
Oct 24th, 2005, 08:43 AM
Yeah I agree that all wins are legitimate. And I will even say a win is a win. But you have to admit that if Anna Smashnova were to ever beat Lindsay Davenport 6-1, 6-1 you know that she didn't do it by blowing Lindsay off the court.

It would be a shocking win yeah, but if Anna wins a match like that with just two winners and two unforced errors, you know all she had to do was keep hitting the ball over the net.

As shocking as the score might look on paper, you just know that Anna didn't really do anything that extroardinary to lose two games to a Davenport.

Let's face it, 100 years from now when they are looking back at Serena Williams, they will probably be saying she lost to Alina and Jill who? That's pretty sad to be but that's the reality of it.

Calimero377
Oct 24th, 2005, 09:02 AM
....
Let's face it, 100 years from now when they are looking back at Serena Williams, they will probably be saying she lost to Alina and Jill who? That's pretty sad to be but that's the reality of it.


When they are looking back in 100 years from now they will ask "Serena who?" ....

moby
Oct 24th, 2005, 09:52 AM
Every win except Maleeva over Seles.
Sorry, Maggie fans.

-Sonic-
Oct 24th, 2005, 10:42 AM
in terms of head to heads, anything but a walkover counts.

in my head tho, things are a bit different. for instance, next time ALG and Maria play, i'm not going to be shaking in my boots because the last time they met in Moscow, Maria won. In my head, she only "won".

PaulieM
Oct 24th, 2005, 01:38 PM
a win is a win. 99% i don't buy the they wasn't at their best stuff, if a player decides to go out on court whether or not they are at their best, they are saying the are well enough to play, so if they lose, they lose fair and square. the only exception is if one player is clearly not physically well, ie is hobbling around, or starts trying to serve underhanded, both of which rarely happen. some losses are hard to swallow because somtimes a player just shouldn't lose to a particular player, but it happens, and it still counts whether fans like it or not. also i don't count walkovers.

marmite1
Oct 24th, 2005, 01:41 PM
All wins are legitimate.
NO EXCUSES!! If ur on the court, ur saying ur fit enough to play. So, if u lose and then say ` I was injured` etc it doesnt count cos u shouldnt have played.

agreed.

Helen Lawson
Oct 24th, 2005, 01:47 PM
It's a legitimate win when you're up against Shirley MacLaine, Elizabeth Taylor, Deborah Kerr, and Rosalind Russell, and you come through and beat them all!!!

Experimentee
Oct 24th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Its a legitimate win if the other player is fit and healthy. That doesnt only include retirements or walkovers, as sometimes players are clearly injured but dont want to retire for some reason or another.

Aerien
Oct 24th, 2005, 02:17 PM
The most problematic excuse that I find is the "age" issue. People seem to devalue wins when a player loses to someone when they were just 16 or even 30. :o

Aquanetta
Oct 24th, 2005, 03:16 PM
So, my question is what do you think it takes for a lower-ranked player to have a "legitimate win" over a higher-ranked player?

A legitimate win for a lower-ranked player over a high-ranked one is when the the higher-ranked player is at 100% fitness (or near it) and is playing the game that elevated them to the high rank.