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View Full Version : Navratilova calls for an off season


partbrit
Aug 19th, 2005, 02:59 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=2137290

JenFan75
Aug 19th, 2005, 03:01 AM
This always comes up when a bunch of top players are injured.

RenaSlam.
Aug 19th, 2005, 03:01 AM
Tell us something we don't know, Martina.

*waiting for bad reps and ducking*

Atrixo
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:24 AM
A longer off-season? So the players can have two consecutive months to completley slack off? Lose their conditioning and dull their skills? And then come back at the beginning of the next season, and get injured even more easily? Players making allowances for short, one-week breaks, spread out through the season is one thing (SMART!). But two WHOLE months? :(

Martina, you may be a great player; but you don't know everything. :rolleyes:

Paneru
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:28 AM
A longer off-season? So the players can have two consecutive months to completley slack off? Lose their conditioning and dull their skills? And then come back at the beginning of the next season, and get injured even more easily? Players making allowances for short, one-week breaks, spread out through the season is one thing (SMART!). But two WHOLE months? :(

Martina, you may be a great player; but you don't know everything. :rolleyes:

Well obviously what they are
doing now isn't working.

Please enlighten me how having two months off means
that players will slack off?

They aren't robots and many would do
well to have that time off.

Atrixo
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:45 AM
What I mean is, the "temptation" to slack off is too great. It's awfully hard to keep your focus on your career (skills, conditioning, etc...) over a two month period.

It's kinda like summer break for students. After 10 straight months of school, it's awfully hard not to fall into a rut during the two month break. It's almost inevitable that it'll take a toll on your work ethic.

deja_entendu
Aug 19th, 2005, 06:01 AM
Players have complete and total control over their schedule. And their training. I do not empathize with this sentiment of Martina's at all.

potty
Aug 19th, 2005, 06:34 AM
2 months would just mean more time for them to play in exhibition events!! They would not take time to rest at all!

goldenlox
Aug 19th, 2005, 03:00 PM
The non top 40 need a full season.
The top 10 need to make a smart schedule for themselves.
You don't need to shorten the tour. Just don't play every week.

SelesFan70
Aug 19th, 2005, 03:16 PM
No player is forced to play....well...except the "top" players that have to choose one designated tournament. Martina, Martina, Martina...it's so ironic coming from her being as she won't RETIRE, much less take time off. :lol:

Atrixo
Aug 19th, 2005, 03:35 PM
No player is forced to play....well...except the "top" players that have to choose one designated tournament. Martina, Martina, Martina...it's so ironic coming from her being as she won't RETIRE, much less take time off. :lol:


So true! :lol:

JennyS
Aug 19th, 2005, 03:58 PM
Why is it that so many top players say the season is too long and they are wrong and fans who don't play on the tour say the season is NOT too long and they are right?

The problem is that even the top players who DO schedule wisely are getting injured. And what Martina said is right, that if you want to give yourself an offseason you have to skip something significant. Find me a period of time, that someone can take a full 4months off without missing a GRand Slam, the YEC or so many big tier 1's that their ranking would be flushed down the toilet.


I say if the tours had an offseason, they should also have a rule that forbids players from playing any event during that time. Pro ball players have clauses in their contracts which prohibit them from doing certain athletic activities during the offseason. Look at what happened when Aaron Boone played a silly game of pickup basketball. How about,

vogus
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:04 PM
Why is it that so many top players say the season is too long and they are wrong and fans who don't play on the tour say the season is NOT too long and they are right?
,


great question, and here's the answer: because the top players are saying this through their teeth while they (and their agents) are doing everything they can to squeeze as much money out of the calendar year as possible. So it's their own ambition that is responsible for their injuries, but of course they won't say that, instead they will blame it on the schedule.

K-Dog
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:22 PM
I have my idea on this issue that will shorten the season for the top 8 by the last week of Sept. in 2006. **Note that I have left out the smaller events, those are added too (I just didn't know them)**

Australia should be three week, and the tournaments after that should all be in Asia.

First week of Janurary

Sydney-Goldcoast (Hopman Cup should be played in late December as it is an exhibtion) 1 week

Australian Open-2 weeks Jan. 9th thru 22nd

Japan Open-1 week Jan. 23rd thru 29th

Toray Pan Pacific, Tokyo-1 week Jan. 30th thru Feb. 5th

Beijing-1 week Feb. 6th thru 12th

Moscow-1 week (kind of crazy idea) Feb. 13th thru 19th

Doha- 1 week Feb. 20th thru 26th

Dubai/Memphis-1 week (end event on Saturday) Feb. 27th thru March 4th

Indian Wells(shorten draw)-1 week (start on Sunday) March 5th thru 12th

Miami(shorten draw)-1 week (start on Sunday for players that are available) March 12th thru 19th

Amelia Island-1 week March 20th thru 26th

Charelston-1 week March 27th thru April 2nd

Warsaw-1 week April 3rd thru April 9th

Berlin-1 week April 10th thru 16th

Rome-1 week April 17th thru 23rd

Strausbourg/Istanbul-1 week (end on Saturday) April 24th thru 30th

French Open-2 weeks May 1st thru 14th

Birmingham-1 week May 15th thru 21st

Eastbourne-1 week May 22nd thru 28th

Wimbledon-2 weeks May 29th thru June 11th

Break week-new idea, but after Wimbledon every needs a week break to recover and rest for the rest of the long season!! June 12th thru 18th

Cincinatti- 1 week June 19th thru 25th

US Open Series begins

Stanford-1 week June 26th thru July 2nd

San Diego-1 week July 3rd thru 9th

LA-1 week July 10th thru 16th

Montreal/Toronto-1 week July 17th thru 23rd

New Haven-1 week July 24th thru 30th

US Open- 2 weeks July 31st thru August 13th

Now is where the season gets too long. Too many fall tournaments!!

Philadelphia- 1 week (I know it is soon, but to keep the flow of US events to make things less stressful) August 14th thru 20th

Europe swing

Filderstandt-1 week August 21st thru 27th

Zurich-1 week August 28th thru Sept. 3rd

Antrewp-1 week (moved here to keep a flow) Sept. 4th thru Sept. 10th

Linz-1 week Sept. 11th thru 17th

YEC-keep it in europe to keep flow of european events; switch between Paris, Munich, Madrid and places of that area. Sept. 18th thru 24th


37 weeks, including a rest week. The Fed Cup should be played ever other year in a 2 week span in either late November to early December.


This should shorten the season quite a bit and give the players MORE, needed off time!!

Chrissie-fan
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:34 PM
Well,after 40 years or so playing this game I'm sure she knows what she's talking about. And retire? Why should she retire? The way things are going they may ask Evert,Goolagong,Graf,Sanchez and King to make a comeback too or they won't be ably to fill in all 128 spots for the US Open! :smoke:

No player is forced to play....well...except the "top" players that have to choose one designated tournament. Martina, Martina, Martina...it's so ironic coming from her being as she won't RETIRE, much less take time off. :lol:

Helen Lawson
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:42 PM
These girls need to toughen up. I routinely did 3-4 pictures a year in my prime, which was like for 20 years. When I was doing Broadway, I'm doing like 7 performances a week. Shooting a movie and doing Broadway are way harder than playing tennis, but you didn't hear me bitching and crapping on about it.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:46 PM
IMO, if you're ranked high enough to get into the Masters/be in the top 10 after the US Open, you should not be picking up a racket after the US Open. Period. There is absolutely no point. The indoor season is essentially worthless. It's not really leading up to anything. The top players who have the luxury of being able to take that time off and only drop anywhere from 0-2 spots should just take that time off and play the Masters. That's four months and should be more than sufficient.

That being said, if you're outside of the top 50 or a streaky top level player like a Petrova, you NEED to play a full schedule (well over 20 events) because you're definitely going to have some first/second round exits during the year and you have to try and supplement those early losses. Lindsay Davenport will not lose in the first round of tour events. Antonella Serra Zanetti will. That's why Lindsay played 17 events last year and Antonella played 26.

Rexman
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:51 PM
The indoor season leads up to the YEC.

A lot of the players like the season, especially the Europeans because they get to stay closer to home. Plus some players play better indoors.

manu32
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:04 PM
she has always something to say.......that's uninteresting one more time....please stop.....

raquel
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Martina is right and as people have said in this thread, her point is nothing new. It's obviously correct and we all knew it. However I doubt you'd get any of the young players speaking out about it. The WTA would freak out if Lindsay or Serena or Kim came out saying "The schedule's too long. The WTA's scheduling is the reason for all these injuries. We should have an off season. I'm injured because the WTA is putting too much pressure on us to play 11 months a year." Rarely when a player is injured long term do they blame the schedule. Martina is one of the only players who would say what we've all been saying, publicly.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:18 PM
The indoor season leads up to the YEC.

A lot of the players like the season, especially the Europeans because they get to stay closer to home. Plus some players play better indoors.

True, but if you're somebody like Henin-Hardenne or Davenport and Clijsters and have ALREADY qualified for the masters, why would you bother playing the events? Train indoors at home for a couple hours per day, sleep, relax...and then go play your one tournament.

goldenlox
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:22 PM
... The WTA would freak out if Lindsay or Serena or Kim came out saying "The schedule's too long. The WTA's scheduling is the reason for all these injuries. We should have an off season. I'm injured because the WTA is putting too much pressure on us to play 11 months a year." Rarely when a player is injured long term do they blame the schedule.The top players don't have to play every week. They can take a break whenever they want.

The rest of the tour needs to earn prizemoney. They need tournaments.
The tournament directors want the stars. But the rest of the tour benefits when the stars take a break from playing.

GoDominique
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:40 PM
True, but if you're somebody like Henin-Hardenne or Davenport and Clijsters and have ALREADY qualified for the masters, why would you bother playing the events? Train indoors at home for a couple hours per day, sleep, relax...and then go play your one tournament.
Well maybe because they LIKE playing tennis. And an event like Filderstadt is one of the most popular on tour so it seems like it's FUN to them to play there. :)

DevilishAttitude
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:42 PM
There is a off season. Top Players though still play exhibtions though so it makes it pointless.

Players should be more careful training wise. Look at Pierce. She's out cos of training not over-playing. Justine basically destroyed her 2004 season and nearly her career over-training.

Players start too young as well. A lot of the older starting players seem to be able to play there best tennis when there older *Farina Elia, Asagoe etc*

Players should be making there own rules not the tour :)

myskinaLova
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:46 PM
Unlike other sports, Players can pick and choose when they play, what tournaments they play and so therefore I think the burden is on them to make sure their body is refreshed if someone decides to play the maximum amount of Events possible for the money or the match play, there's nothing that can be done about it...

I think that Tennis trusts that it's players will police themselves, after all it is taxing on the body but not as much as some sports ... especially if you're losing in the 1st or 2nd round ... say that you are an average Top 20 player trying to earn a living you want to play as much Tennis as possible, an off-season would really be forcing the issue ... players need to monitor their play more responsibly if you ask me...

K-Dog
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:57 PM
I have my idea on this issue that will shorten the season for the top 8 by the last week of Sept. in 2006. **Note that I have left out the smaller events, those are added too (I just didn't know them)**

Australia should be three week, and the tournaments after that should all be in Asia.

First week of Janurary

Sydney-Goldcoast (Hopman Cup should be played in late December as it is an exhibtion) 1 week

Australian Open-2 weeks Jan. 9th thru 22nd

Japan Open-1 week Jan. 23rd thru 29th

Toray Pan Pacific, Tokyo-1 week Jan. 30th thru Feb. 5th

Beijing-1 week Feb. 6th thru 12th

Moscow-1 week (kind of crazy idea) Feb. 13th thru 19th

Doha- 1 week Feb. 20th thru 26th

Dubai/Memphis-1 week (end event on Saturday) Feb. 27th thru March 4th

Indian Wells(shorten draw)-1 week (start on Sunday) March 5th thru 12th

Miami(shorten draw)-1 week (start on Sunday for players that are available) March 12th thru 19th

Amelia Island-1 week March 20th thru 26th

Charelston-1 week March 27th thru April 2nd

Warsaw-1 week April 3rd thru April 9th

Berlin-1 week April 10th thru 16th

Rome-1 week April 17th thru 23rd

Strausbourg/Istanbul-1 week (end on Saturday) April 24th thru 30th

French Open-2 weeks May 1st thru 14th

Birmingham-1 week May 15th thru 21st

Eastbourne-1 week May 22nd thru 28th

Wimbledon-2 weeks May 29th thru June 11th

Break week-new idea, but after Wimbledon every needs a week break to recover and rest for the rest of the long season!! June 12th thru 18th

Cincinatti- 1 week June 19th thru 25th

US Open Series begins

Stanford-1 week June 26th thru July 2nd

San Diego-1 week July 3rd thru 9th

LA-1 week July 10th thru 16th

Montreal/Toronto-1 week July 17th thru 23rd

New Haven-1 week July 24th thru 30th

US Open- 2 weeks July 31st thru August 13th

Now is where the season gets too long. Too many fall tournaments!!

Philadelphia- 1 week (I know it is soon, but to keep the flow of US events to make things less stressful) August 14th thru 20th

Europe swing

Filderstandt-1 week August 21st thru 27th

Zurich-1 week August 28th thru Sept. 3rd

Antrewp-1 week (moved here to keep a flow) Sept. 4th thru Sept. 10th

Linz-1 week Sept. 11th thru 17th

YEC-keep it in europe to keep flow of european events; switch between Paris, Munich, Madrid and places of that area. Sept. 18th thru 24th


37 weeks, including a rest week. The Fed Cup should be played ever other year in a 2 week span in either late November to early December.


This should shorten the season quite a bit and give the players MORE, needed off time!!



BOY, people in this thread have short attention spans. Nobody even looked at my proposed schedule. I want comments on it!! Other's idea would be great too!!

griffin
Aug 19th, 2005, 08:27 PM
Comments? Starting this year, even for players who DO play the YEC, there are two solid months off at the end of the season. I think you shorten the season more than that, you just force people to play the same number of tourneys in a shorter period of time. You make it harder for people to take time off during the season - probably more necessary, imo, than a longer off-season.

K-Dog
Aug 19th, 2005, 08:31 PM
Comments? Starting this year, even for players who DO play the YEC, there are two solid months off at the end of the season. I think you shorten the season more than that, you just force people to play the same number of tourneys in a shorter period of time. You make it harder for people to take time off during the season - probably more necessary, imo, than a longer off-season.

Two months still isn't long enough. The players will have to learn to pace themselves. There are still the same big tournaments, just weeks taken out. The only thing probably wrong with my schedule is the seasonal conflict with weather at the time the tournaments would take place.

griffin
Aug 19th, 2005, 08:41 PM
Two months still isn't long enough. The players will have to learn to pace themselves. There are still the same big tournaments, just weeks taken out. The only thing probably wrong with my schedule is the seasonal conflict with weather at the time the tournaments would take place.

I would suggest that your "only" (your opinion) problem is pretty huge in and of itself.

Oddly enough, you DO have the answer - you're just too busy insisting on rearranging the schedule to realize it:

The players will have to learn to pace themselves.

Zauber
Aug 19th, 2005, 08:42 PM
Reduce the pressure on players to play too much by reducing the number of tournaments from 17 to 12 that count toward the players ranking.
The tennis organizations increased it, in order to get the players to play as much as possible.
The tennis organizations pressured Bjorn Borg to play more and contributed toward his premature retirement.
The more players play the more tournaments the more money especially the top players for the t. v. ratings.
Milk the cash cow as much as possible.
money money makes the world go around but has some detrimental effects in certain areas.
Sport is one of those areas when people try maximize profits fancy way of saying putting profits above the good of the sport. Until profits decline before that they really do not care.

K-Dog
Aug 19th, 2005, 08:48 PM
I would suggest that your "only" (your opinion) problem is pretty huge in and of itself.

Oddly enough, you DO have the answer - you're just too busy insisting on rearranging the schedule to realize it:

The problem is that the tour doesn't want them to pace themselves. They want them to play, play, play and then complain that everyone is out injured. Shortening the schedule and making it more flowing is what the players want, so I tried to make a hypothetical schedule. I'm not saying it is right, but an idea.

griffin
Aug 19th, 2005, 08:54 PM
The problem is that the tour doesn't want them to pace themselves.

Then the problem is the Tour, not the schedule. If players are under the same pressure (real or imagined) to play X number of tournaments, but suddenly have a reduced amount of time to play them in, you will see MORE injuries, not fewer.

The only proposal I've seen that makes any sense is reducing the number of tournaments included in the rankings. Lower ranked women who need to play more tournaments for points or money still can, but the players who wind up playing deeper into a smaller number of tournaments will have fewer incentives to overplay.

That will mean, of course, taking a look at how many top-level tournaments the tour authrorizes and how many top players they expect to be available.

K-Dog
Aug 19th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Then the problem is the Tour, not the schedule. If players are under the same pressure (real or imagined) to play X number of tournaments, but suddenly have a reduced amount of time to play them in, you will see MORE injuries, not fewer.

The only proposal I've seen that makes any sense is reducing the number of tournaments included in the rankings. Lower ranked women who need to play more tournaments for points or money still can, but the players who wind up playing deeper into a smaller number of tournaments will have fewer incentives to overplay.

That will mean, of course, taking a look at how many top-level tournaments the tour authrorizes and how many top players they expect to be available.


You make a good point. I think that the schedule should still be for flowing, especially with Asian events. I don't know, I really like what I proposed there. It makes sense to stay in the same continent for a longer period of time and not have to travel back and forth a lot.

arcus
Aug 19th, 2005, 09:07 PM
I like the diea of an off season to give players time to recreate their game, try new things......
Way things are, the tempation to play (and EARN) continuously is so strong that players cant risk doing someting like reconstructing a shot, as they'd be risking losing the following week.

But I agree with the poster who said that they'd jsut end up filling the time with crfappy exo's. As it is, the players who hate the schedule being so busy cant get on the WTT courts fast enough. I know that the stress is not the same, but still.......

vutt
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:06 PM
ATP season is just as long with no big problems! I wonder why?

JenCpLvr
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:10 PM
Tell us something we don't know, Martina.

*waiting for bad reps and ducking*

She wasn't saying it for your benefit.. :rolleyes:

We need more people like her voicing that there needs to be an off-season. If the players don't express it, who will? Maybe one day someone will listen.

darrinbaker00
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:19 PM
Why is it that so many top players say the season is too long and they are wrong and fans who don't play on the tour say the season is NOT too long and they are right?

The problem is that even the top players who DO schedule wisely are getting injured. And what Martina said is right, that if you want to give yourself an offseason you have to skip something significant. Find me a period of time, that someone can take a full 4months off without missing a GRand Slam, the YEC or so many big tier 1's that their ranking would be flushed down the toilet.


I say if the tours had an offseason, they should also have a rule that forbids players from playing any event during that time. Pro ball players have clauses in their contracts which prohibit them from doing certain athletic activities during the offseason. Look at what happened when Aaron Boone played a silly game of pickup basketball.
Professional tennis players are independent contractors, not salaried employees like the pro ball players you're referring to.

I've asked this question before, and I'll ask it again: if you shorten the schedule, which tournaments do you cut? If I'm a tournament organizer and you drop me from the tour because I'm not meeting my end of the bargain (poor ticket sales, subpar facilities, etc.), that's on me. If you drop me because a bunch of self-employed millionaires are complaining about being overworked, you'd better prepare for a lawsuit.

darrinbaker00
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:22 PM
Besides, why is this only a problem for the women? The men's schedule is just as long, but you don't hear them complaining.

K-Dog
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:38 PM
Besides, why is this only a problem for the women? The men's schedule is just as long, but you don't hear them complaining.

Women and men are anatomically different when it comes to physically activities. I don't want to sound sexist, but men are built to be better suited to last longer.

Yonexforever
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:48 PM
2 months would just mean more time for them to play in exhibition events!! They would not take time to rest at all!
:worship:


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They need to limit the technology in 6the game.. its too fast and demanding on the body!

fammmmedspin
Aug 20th, 2005, 12:28 AM
There might be an argument for more time off but its got nothing to do with injuries. No one in the top 20 is doing well enough to have played excessively in 2005 and practically everyone is playing notably less than they have in the past. Even the schedule now has big holes in it and players are creating others. Some are being injured after long layoff and others are being injured now not because the season is too long but because now is the time they got injured.

Navratilova seems to think that a few months rest and gymn would make them all fit enough to sustain a shorter schedule. Reality is that the standard of play, speed and power have increased so much since her day that injuries are likely at any time.Hitting a serve at 120mph and returning it are bound to be more dangerous than doing everything at 85-90mph.If you want to reduce injuries you need a less powerful and slower version of the game - more like Navratilova's and there seems no way of getting that.