PDA

View Full Version : what do these losses mean for Serena and Justine?


SJW
Jun 26th, 2005, 02:49 AM
NOTHING...that's what. neither are over. neither should retire. both will continue to win slams. bad tournament. shit happens.

fOxYLiCiOuS
Jun 26th, 2005, 02:51 AM
:lol: U tell em' Sarah! :yeah:

:rolls:

Allez Mary Pierce!! :hearts:

Diesel
Jun 26th, 2005, 02:57 AM
:haha: although I was tripping with the fact they were mentioned in a post together. I love me some Serena but she'll bounce back from this just like my rent will still be due by the fifth. Basically good luck to the remaining women and let us look forward. You just don't forget how to win, you do though need to remember what got you there in the first place and with a little luck, voila we'll all be happy again :)

cynicole
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:04 AM
I don't doubt slams in their futures but it makes me wonder if either will be fit enough to really "dominate" the tour again.

MissJessou
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:55 AM
Every player can have bad tournements. Serena was injured and Justine haven't played on grass since two years. They will be back, that's sure ;)

RenaSlam.
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:56 AM
I hope these two are back. The two best competitors in women's tennis...

shap_half
Jun 26th, 2005, 05:14 AM
Justine hasn't played on grass in two years. She lost to a good grass courter who beat her on grass before.

Serena wasn't well. She lost to a player who played consistent aggressive tennis.

People lose when there are mitigating circumstances and when there isn't. Both will obviously bounce back from their respective losses.

Martian KC
Jun 26th, 2005, 05:29 AM
Is that really you?

Chunchun
Jun 26th, 2005, 05:40 AM
mean LenaD will be top 5 !! :woohoo:

Venus+Serena#1fan
Jun 26th, 2005, 07:20 AM
JUSTINE?- Came off a big win in RG, fatigued, body still doesn't recover that quick, played a sloppy match.

SERENA?- Knee injury, ankle injury, no match preparation, no conditioning, no practice spells disaster. She said in her press conference that she will start practicing alot more seriously and consistently, which if she does, can still bring her great success the rest of this season and at the USO.

Not particularly worried for either, except Serena has the injuries that she still hast to heal so her situation sucks more.
HEy even if they fail to win another match this year (which of course wont happen) they both won Slams, they have had a good year.

deja_entendu
Jun 26th, 2005, 07:57 AM
I'm not so sure Slams are in Serena's future. Since the AO, this string of bad losses puts her in a pretty bad slump... and how long will it take her to get fit and confident again? When (if) she does get fit and confident again, how much better will the competition be?

VeeDaQueen
Jun 26th, 2005, 08:07 AM
I'm not so sure Slams are in Serena's future. Since the AO, this string of bad losses puts her in a pretty bad slump... and how long will it take her to get fit and confident again? When (if) she does get fit and confident again, how much better will the competition be?


It doesn't matter how good the competition is. When Serena is fit and confident, she has the determination factor and she forces herself to not lose matches. She was in no way the best player at the Australian this year, but she was so determined. Did you see the 3 match points? All to the forehand side and all shots were amazing! No matter what people say about Serena not caring, it shows off in her game. She wanted to win so bad in Australia. She even cried after today's match. She obviously cares a lot for tennis and the haters need to recognize!

deja_entendu
Jun 26th, 2005, 08:12 AM
I see your point, but again I must say that Sharapova's second serves on match points @ Australia were about 25 mph slower than what she usually delivers.

drapero
Jun 26th, 2005, 08:42 AM
Serena will have to stop wasting energy on other things. Somehow I don't believe that's going to happen.

tennisfan1972
Jun 26th, 2005, 09:57 AM
Serena used to attack lindsays first and second serves liek they were 75 miles per hour. i seriously doubt whether Maria's second serve was 25 mph less or not will have much to do with it. maybe Maria needs more conditioning and training. Why did her serve drop off so badly? When serena heals she will definitely win more slams. I just dont see anyone else able to win 4 slams a year and she not be included in that list. If she isnt going to win one, then who is gonanreplace her atthe trophy stands?? maybe maria, lindsay? perhaps. Mauresmo? i doubt it.Dementieva? not likely but possible. Kim? perhaps . Justine on clay.

Jakeev
Jun 26th, 2005, 10:16 AM
More than anything, I think the losses mean that both players still have a major priority of dealing with their health issues.

And what does that mean exactly? They just need to be more patient with their bodies. I think it's pretty simple. If they want longevity in their careers, take care of their physical beings first and worry about competing later.

Do I think they should take the rest of the year off? No, but it's obvious neither player, and I don't care what either of them say in the press, really take the effort to give themselves the proper time they need to heal their ailments.

So whatever it takes: fewer personal appearances, parties, engagements, working out, whatever: REST YOUR BODIES LADIES!!!!!!!

!<blocparty>!
Jun 26th, 2005, 10:46 AM
what do these losses mean for Serena

That she needs to get in shape? Or, that this is what you get playing injured maybe :confused:

bee
Jun 26th, 2005, 11:36 AM
For Justine - Maybe she needs to take a break.... and not play too much...
For Serena - She needs to get in shape... and focus on tennis 100% .

Szymanowski
Jun 26th, 2005, 11:47 AM
NOTHING...that's what. neither are over. neither should retire. both will continue to win slams. bad tournament. shit happens.
I would be amazed if anyone disagreed with you, SJW. After all, they are the 2 most recent GS winners!

Lady
Jun 26th, 2005, 11:47 AM
For Justine - Maybe she needs to take a break.... and not play too much...
For Serena - She needs to get in shape... and focus on tennis 100% .

Justine have played less tournaments then anyone this year, and she won't return until August. How was she playing too much?


And Sarah expressed my point precisely (she even called Justine by name ;) :kiss: ).
They both know why they lost, hopefully they both will work hard so it won't happen again. ;)

kiekeboe
Jun 26th, 2005, 11:55 AM
They both will be back and fight for slams titles !!!

Justine: no grass in 2years
SW: no condition and cofindence

tennisfan1972
Jun 26th, 2005, 12:25 PM
this will be aboslutely bizarre if those two keep winning slams coming off injury. whiel the rest of the healthy players on tour continue to lose to them while being up match points. I disgaree with the lets doo tennis 100%. exactlyhow will that keep uhealthy or help with injuries. No one should be forced to play tennis 24/7. Tennis is agreat sport but lets get real. What exactly do u gain by hitting 1,000,000 tennis balls everyday. Then not know how to do anything else when uretire except commentate on tennis matches and try to compare yourself to the current players. I mean does mary joe , pam and brad gilbert really not have anything else to do or anything else that they can do in life. Outside activities are good for some people. Not everyone canmaintain interest in tennis if they dont have outside interests. I look at Venus and i know just as everyone else does that her serve and forehand need attention. But if ucan make 2 million dollars making quarterfinals and running 3 or 4 other businesses then that seems to me to be the path to take.

SJW
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:30 PM
That she needs to get in shape? Or, that this is what you get playing injured maybe :confused:

shes done it at least twice before and got away with it (being injured and winning a slam that is). it's the other players on tour who should be embarrassed about it. :)

sure she needs to get in shape. i'm sure it has something to do with her injury though...she wasnt this big before it. (big being relative. i'm not calling Serena fat)

SJW
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:33 PM
Justine have played less tournaments then anyone this year, and she won't return until August. How was she playing too much?


And Sarah expressed my point precisely (she even called Justine by name ;) :kiss: ).
They both know why they lost, hopefully they both will work hard so it won't happen again. ;)

she played the same amount as Serena i think, and she came back in March. but it's good that she's not playing again until August, for her sake. she won the FO running on empty towards the end.

V-MAC
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:35 PM
There is no doubt that Serena will bounce back stronger after this and win more slams. I guess she just needed a big kick up the backside to get in gear and if losing to Craybas hasn't done it, I don't know what will :eek: This actually reminds me of when Serena lost in Wimbledon back in 2001 and remember what happened after that. :eek:

Experimentee
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:42 PM
Of course it doesnt mean they are over and should retire. I'm a bit concerned about Serena's injuries though. There are too many for my liking. She should seriously consider sacking her trainer, because shes done absolutely nothing for Serena's physical fitness. She should be getting better advice on how to look after her body because its not normal to get so many injuries.

Allez-H
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:45 PM
They'll be back, no worry bout that ;) Anyone in for a Justine-Serena USO-final this year? :p

moby
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:49 PM
They'll be back, no worry bout that ;) Anyone in for a Justine-Serena USO-final this year? :pThat's what I was thinking too. A fitting conclusion to the year.

Wimbledon is a farce.
Grass is for cows and druggies. :ras:

Lady
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:52 PM
she played the same amount as Serena i think, and she came back in March. but it's good that she's not playing again until August, for her sake. she won the FO running on empty towards the end.

Well, she actually didn't expect to win everything since Charleston, that she'll play that many matches. ;)
She pulled out of Eastbourne, so there's nothing else she could have done. (Well, she could play less 3 setters, but... )

And she'll probably play just 2 tournies before US Open as in 2003.
She's definitely not overplaying. ;)

Lady
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:53 PM
They'll be back, no worry bout that ;) Anyone in for a Justine-Serena USO-final this year? :p

Justine vs Serena seems to be cursed. ;) :sad:

Bright Red
Jun 26th, 2005, 03:59 PM
NOTHING...that's what. neither are over. neither should retire. both will continue to win slams. bad tournament. shit happens.

Very well put.

I was super shocked by Serena's loss, even though I knew something was wrong when she went three sets with low-ranked players. I wanted her to win so bad.

I was sad for Justine. She was having a good run.

Like you say, they'll both be back. :bounce:

Paneru
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:00 PM
NOTHING...that's what. neither are over. neither should retire. both will continue to win slams. bad tournament. shit happens.

Oh absolutely!

It is what it is, nothing
more nothing less.

Just not their tournament.

cynicole
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:00 PM
Justine vs Serena seems to be cursed. ;) :sad:

It's turning into Venus vs. Jennifer. :(

Seriously, since Wimbledon 2003 Justine wins the Slams that Serena doesn't play and Serena makes at least the finals of the Slams Justine doesn't play.

If they both play, they are DOOMED! :p

ys
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:01 PM
For Justine it is still just a bit of learning curve.. For Serena, sadly, it is probably curtains..

Lady
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:02 PM
It's turning into Venus vs. Jennifer. :(

Seriously, since Wimbledon 2003 Justine wins the Slams that Serena doesn't play and Serena makes at least the finals of the Slams Justine doesn't play.


Yep, so maybe they should split them between each other? They seem to perform better when the other one is not around! :lol:

SJW
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:12 PM
For Justine it is still just a bit of learning curve.. For Serena, sadly, it is probably curtains..

not only do i not believe you actually think that, but even if you did, i don't think you're sad about it :p

i get you ys :hug: and don't worry, a lot of people are gonna quote you and have a go to make you feel important :p

tennis ace
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:16 PM
I see your point, but again I must say that Sharapova's second serves on match points @ Australia were about 25 mph slower than what she usually delivers.
Please let's not talk about how slow peoples serves were at the AO do you remember the WTA tour championships last year :confused: i could have smacked those back at Serena!

Tennisaddict
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:19 PM
They both will be fine. Serena should have stayed home to heal and get back in shape and form properly, and Justine also wasn't prepared for grass and had the bad luck of running into a talented grasscourter. Both will make considarable noise in the summer hardcourt series.

Paneru
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:20 PM
not only do i not believe you actually think that, but even if you did, i don't think you're sad about it :p

i get you ys :hug: and don't worry, a lot of people are gonna quote you and have a go to make you feel important :p

Just a lot of wishing, hoping, and praying!
Nothing more!

They said the same thing when Serena didn't win
a Slam in 04' and proclaimed the Russians would
continue their Slam domination in 05'.

Then when Serena upset that cart the same people
either became silent or still tried to take their pot
shot's.

Their usual bs.

ys
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:25 PM
not only do i not believe you actually think that, but even if you did, i don't think you're sad about it :p

I do think so, and it is sad to see a woman snowballing like that. And I do not think it is that easily reversible at her age.

serenafan08
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:26 PM
For Justine it is still just a bit of learning curve.. For Serena, sadly, it is probably curtains..
Curtains???? Serena's only 23 - she still has half a career ahead of her. That's ridiculous to say her career's almost over. :rolleyes:

I really want Justine to take a break and let this virus fully leave her system!!! I just feel so terrible for her. Viruses are hard to get rid of; since they're not bacterial, they can't be treated with antibiotics. You have to let them run their course and pass through the body, which can take a long time. I remember Pam Shriver saying that Justine's doctor advised her to be careful because if the virus comes back again, it will be stronger than last time - and that's scary!!! One thing is certain - Justine now knows what to do in order to keep herself healthy for longer periods of time, and that's good news.

On the other hand, Serena still doesn't know how to stay healthy. IMO, she needs to drop about 20 pounds and start rebuilding the muscle mass that's been replaced by extra weight. I almost think it would be better for her to drop even more weight, and here's why. Serena's got a big body; there's a lot of muscle, curves, and thickness. When you watch her move on the court, you can't help but notice how powerfully she moves. You can see all the muscles in her legs and thighs working hard, and when you switch direction, run side to side and stop on a dime, that takes a toll on the body. She has a lot of mass to move, and it's understandable that her body can't keep up with her all the time. I think she should go back to whatever training regimen she was doing back in 2002 when she was dominating, because she was barely injured during that time period. She can't just show up to tournaments and expect to win without preparation. She has to train and practice; it's mandatory.

SJW
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:41 PM
I do think so, and it is sad to see a woman snowballing like that. And I do not think it is that easily reversible at her age.

she's only 23 :shrug: and with the amount she plays, i'm sure that she still has a good few years left of top level play, and more importantly, interest to keep going. there are a few people older than her who are still doing ok.

Experimentee
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:45 PM
I think Serena should consider wearing ankle guards. Shes had chronic ankle injuries her whole career but still doesnt wear them. Look at what they've done for Hewitt, he would have about 5 more ankle injuries if it wasnt for his ankle guards. I hope vanity isnt the reason for her not wearing them.

thelittlestelf
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:55 PM
I see your point, but again I must say that Sharapova's second serves on match points @ Australia were about 25 mph slower than what she usually delivers.I remember you saying that before so I went into my AO semi tape (;) ) and checked the speedgun! On the 2nd match point the 2nd serve was 165 kph (I may be off a few but around there) and although I couldn't see the speedgun on the third match point I think her 2nd serve was not much slower. That's a good cut at a second serve.

Yes, I have too much time on my hands. But it was raining that day and I had nothing to do!

ys
Jun 26th, 2005, 04:55 PM
she's only 23 :shrug: and with the amount she plays, i'm sure that she still has a good few years left of top level play, and more importantly, interest to keep going. there are a few people older than her who are still doing ok.

I would agree with on all of that if we were talking about your average tennis player. Here we are talking about Serena. Not someone single-minded like Steffi, Justine or Maria. Of course she still can be back, no question about it. In theory. The thing is, now it will take much more effort and committment than it would have taken 2 or 3 years ago. 23-24 is still very young. But that's already the age when metabolism starts slowing considerably, and when working out along might no longer be enough to be in top shape. Diet, regime, other professional stuff might be required.

I first said that Serena is out of shape and overweight when she started her comeback in 2004. She was already overweight enough for non-fan , like me, to definitely notice it, but not overweight enough for a fan like you, to have to admit it. Yes, since then she made Wimbledon finals, thanks to a donation from Mauresmo , and won one Slam, thanks to a donations from Sharapova and Davenport. But that was won significantly on old baggage, on intimidation factor and confidence inherited from her unparalleled dominance of Serena's Slam period. Her game alone would not have done that - I think , even her fans would agree on that. But now, her game is even worse , and that factor is gone. Now she really needs to rebuilt from the scratch - she didn't have to in 2004.

at this point I am not questioning that it is theoretically possible for her to come back and be one of Top 3 players again. It is possible. What I am questioning is that she can have the right amount of commitment, determination and motivation to do that. The odds are, she won't.

SJW
Jun 26th, 2005, 05:08 PM
I would agree with on all of that if we were talking about your average tennis player. Here we are talking about Serena. Not someone single-minded like Steffi, Justine or Maria. Of course she still can be back, no question about it. In theory. The thing is, now it will take much more effort and committment than it would have taken 2 or 3 years ago. 23-24 is still very young. But that's already the age when metabolism starts slowing considerably, and when working out along might no longer be enough to be in top shape. Diet, regime, other professional stuff might be required.

I first said that Serena is out of shape and overweight when she started her comeback in 2004. She was already overweight enough for non-fan , like me, to definitely notice it, but not overweight enough for a fan like you, to have to admit it. Yes, since then she made Wimbledon finals, thanks to a donation from Mauresmo , and won one Slam, thanks to a donations from Sharapova and Davenport. But that was won significantly on old baggage, on intimidation factor and confidence inherited from her unparalleled dominance of Serena's Slam period. Her game alone would not have done that - I think , even her fans would agree on that. But now, her game is even worse , and that factor is gone. Now she really needs to rebuilt from the scratch - she didn't have to in 2004.

at this point I am not questioning that it is theoretically possible for her to come back and be one of Top 3 players again. It is possible. What I am questioning is that she can have the right amount of commitment, determination and motivation to do that. The odds are, she won't.

in that case you can say that every slam has been donated to it's winner in some way. i dont agree with that. she took her opportunities and the others didn't. just like everyone else who has come through close matches in a slam before.i dont think she was that out of shape in 2004, she wasnt as fit as 2002 but that's hardly surprising. this year shes heavier and maybe 1/2 half a step slower but the way she looked at Wimbledon didn't surprise me. her loss doesn't surprise me. the only people it does surprise is those who have been proclaiming that she's over, only for her to prove them wrong again, and then they start all over.

she's a slam winner in 2005. even if she doesn't do fuck all else this year that's all that matters to her in the long run.

starr
Jun 26th, 2005, 08:05 PM
At the most optimistic: It means nothing to either of them. They are both proven champions.

At the most pessimistic: Either their bodies are up to the task, or they aren't doing what they need for their bodies and it will continue to be a problem until each of them solves the problem.

I would think there is less call for concern for Justine since she seems to be on an upswing following her comeback from her long illness. She apears focused and dedicated. For Serena, there are more questions. She has proven she can stay with the best even when not 100%, but she has had problem after problem with her body and fitness. She appears determined to fight and compete in every match, but that only takes one so far.

Winning at an elite level is emotional and psychological as much as anything else. Everyone at that level has great skills. To me, the psychological component (especially with the women) is what makes the game so interesting.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Jun 26th, 2005, 08:33 PM
The losses proved that Justine, although deadly in the latter stages of Slams, is vulnerable to early upset. Also Eleni was a very tough draw on grass for someone severely lacking in grasscourt matchplay.

Serena was out of shape & lacking confidence - she played badly & lost, but I'm sure she'll pull herself together for the US hardcourt season.

I pray for a great USO with all the top players fit & reaching the latter stages. A last 8 line up of Serena, Justine, Kim, Maria, Lindsay, Capriati, Venus & Kuznetsova or Mauresmo would be great for women's tennis.

!<blocparty>!
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:24 PM
shes done it at least twice before and got away with it (being injured and winning a slam that is). it's the other players on tour who should be embarrassed about it. :)

sure she needs to get in shape. i'm sure it has something to do with her injury though...she wasnt this big before it. (big being relative. i'm not calling Serena fat)

Yeah, so a straight sets loss to Jill Craybas does mean something.

Anyway, got back last night...and one of the nicest celebs I met at Wimbledon was Richard :lol: He was really really nice. Did u see him walking around with these blonde girls? :lol: I saw him in the grounds and outside in the village when having dinner..with the same girls. Do you have any idea who they were?

SJW
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:41 PM
Anyway, got back last night...and one of the nicest celebs I met at Wimbledon was Richard :lol: He was really really nice. Did u see him walking around with these blonde girls? :lol: I saw him in the grounds and outside in the village when having dinner..with the same girls. Do you have any idea who they were?

yea i saw them. from the back one looked like a shorter Maria Sharapova which i thought was interesting. maybe a human sized voodoo doll.

Richard is great. he asked to continue our conversation half an hour later, then actually came back looking for me. how many celebs would do that.

RAA
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:43 PM
both have proven that they are champions and FIGHTERS.. i don't worry about either of them.

Serena needs to get healthy and FIT. she has SEVERAL more slams in her I believe. might be one a year or something.. but you write her off at your peril.

for justine I think it was a one off loss for her. the french and wimby are too freakin' close in the schedule. she needed some time to recover both mentally and physically and just didn't get it.

!<blocparty>!
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:45 PM
yea i saw them. from the back one looked like a shorter Maria Sharapova which i thought was interesting. maybe a human sized voodoo doll.

Richard is great. he asked to continue our conversation half an hour later, then actually came back looking for me. how many celebs would do that.

Wow. Not as impressive as your story....but when i asked him to sign, he wrote his name so you could see every letter. His phone rang and he was holding his camera and some fanta, he gave them for me to hold, signed and answered his call:lol:. And he was strolling around the village, taking pics with everyone who asked.

Did u think of asking him for some VIP passes? :p

SJW
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Wow. Not as impressive as your story....but when i asked him to sign, he wrote his name so you could see every letter. His phone rang and he was holding his camera and some fanta, he gave them for me to hold, signed and answered his call:lol:. And he was strolling around the village, taking pics with everyone who asked.

Did u think of asking him for some VIP passes? :p

no. i was more concerned when he asked me to hold on a minute while he called Serena. if she answered, i would have snatched his phone off of him and spoken to her.

needless to say...she didn't ;)

Sir Stefwhit
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:51 PM
The same people who say Serena is done are the same people who were silenced when she won her 7th major this year. How many of the naysayers saw that coming? (to save face, people want to imply luck was the key element- too funny for words.) No one honestly doubts Serena will win another major- it just makes for good conversation to say so. Both JuJu and Serena will always be contenders if they're in the second week of a major, and more often than not, they will be.

We are simply in a different tennis era and people are having a hard time trying to make since of it all. The days of complete and utter domination are a thing of the past. The talent is so deep that on any given day you've got anywhere from 3-6 major contenders for the big titles. Serena will get her share, alongside a few of the Russians every now and then, sprinkle in some Belgians from time to time, and once in a blue moon and "other" will take the top prize. That's how I see things unfolding. I don't really see any new faces winning majors anytime soon, but between the big names, I think they'll all take turns getting the Big Win. And most definitely Serena and JuJu will always be considered 'big names' with a better than average shot at winning more majors and all the wishful thinking in the world wouldn't change it.

deja_entendu
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:53 PM
For Justine, one loss on her least favorite surface to a talented grass court specialist who has beaten her before, all after Justine had the most impressive clay court season of any woman in many, many, many years means absolutely nothing. Other than she needs to sharpen up her grass court game for next year.

For Serena?? You can figure that one out for yourselves, because people will be offended if I say anything that's not praiseworthy. Certainly, I think she's reached an important point in her career.

RAA
Jun 30th, 2005, 04:53 PM
The same people who say Serena is done are the same people who were silenced when she won her 7th major this year. How many of the naysayers saw that coming? (to save face, people want to imply luck was the key element- too funny for words.) No one honestly doubts Serena will win another major- it just makes for good conversation to say so. Both JuJu and Serena will always be contenders if they're in the second week of a major, and more often than not, they will be.

We are simply in a different tennis era and people are having a hard time trying to make since of it all. The days of complete and utter domination are a thing of the past. The talent is so deep that on any given day you've got anywhere from 3-6 major contenders for the big titles. Serena will get her share, alongside a few of the Russians every now and then, sprinkle in some Belgians from time to time, and once in a blue moon and "other" will take the top prize. That's how I see things unfolding. I don't really see any new faces winning majors anytime soon, but between the big names, I think they'll all take turns getting the Big Win. And most definitely Serena and JuJu will always be considered 'big names' with a better than average shot at winning more majors and all the wishful thinking in the world wouldn't change it.

yes, this was very well said. I totally agree.