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View Full Version : If you are not in the top 400 you might as well give up. Discuss


verveandsolley
Apr 7th, 2002, 02:50 PM
A British player recently suggested to me that if you are playing tournaments regularly and are not in the top 350 or so then you really are not very good and might as well find other ways to make a living.

Obviously this does not refer to young players embarking on a career or those out with injury, but theose journeymen and women who blag a few points that gets them into draws, then maintain their ranking with 1 pt in each tournament

What do u think?

TS
Apr 7th, 2002, 03:12 PM
Yes thats quite true, but many play for the love of it also and we cant deny them that....for example take Nancy Loeffler-Caro...40 years old, barely wins *games* but keeps playing cos she loves the sport even tho she barely makes a dime from it. She had some money left over so decided to spend it all on pursuing her dream of being a tennis player, which was halted in the 80's.

Some continue pursuing the dream in the hope that things may turn around eventually...it happens sometimes. The challenger circuits are gruelling and very tough (as you know)...I admire the lowely ranked players who continue to play cos it takes a heck of a lot of spirit to keep ploughing on even tho they keep losing. They have great spirit.

Also, some have back up plans and if tennis doesnt work out they drop it and go find a new career...for example Andrea Nathan (who beat Mirjana Lucic in $10K event this year) will go to law school when she finally decides enough is enough.

One thing I disagree with you on tho is that there a quite a few players ranked below 350 who are quite talented, but these days tennis has more depth and it is much harder to move up than it once was.

:)

AUSBOY
Apr 7th, 2002, 04:48 PM
I disagree!

Some players have spent more than 3 years below 350 and have then gone on to have respectable careers!

Lisa McShea is one, she spent five years ranked lower than that, Mirielle Dittmann is another about to break into the top 200, she spent the first 6 years of her career outside the top 350.

Some players improve with experience and can take longer. Its also certainly true that there are a lot of good players that dont quite have what it takes but they enjoy the challenge and always hope with their efforts that their games will keep improving.

You can't deny them the chance to fulfil a dream. Look at Tameishi, what a thrill for her last year, she played in the Quarter Final of a WTA Tier IV event last year in Bali in doubles against Tammy Tanasugarn/Evie Dominikovic.

Their are numerous other Australian players that have taken at least 3 years to crack the top 350, its not that uncommon these days as the depth of tennis is substantial! I've seen girls ranked 1100 and thought wow! I've even seen players ranked that low beat top 120 players!

bluepastures
Apr 7th, 2002, 05:05 PM
I'd be interested to know which British player expressed that rather short-sighted view! I can think of a lot of players outside the top 400 who are ambitious both individually, to do well in the smaller tournaments, have success in doubles, and play well for their country.
It's a decent way of making a living for many players, doing what they love, even if they know they're never going to be world-stars.
Personally, I think British players can in some cases, be too impatient to find quick success and stardom. If they don't, there's too much temptation to just give up.

polishprodigy
Apr 7th, 2002, 08:26 PM
Keiko Tameishi has played the most tournies out everyone ranked (36 tournaments played) and is not even in the top 600! :p Ok , one fluky QF DOUBLES appearance isn't that great to justify her continuing playing. Nancy, she wants' to have fun, go right ahead. But tameishi should realize that tennis will not be her thing. Sure sure those 'success' stories like Mereille, but that is not reality and doesn't happen often. There are always exceptions to everything. ;)

DutchieGirl
Apr 8th, 2002, 02:34 AM
I guess it depends if they are making enough money to live off or not. I mean if they can't support themselves, then I suppose they should try to find something else - but then it depends how old they are too. I mean Anoujska van Exel wasn't doing very well up until last year, and now she's in the top 250, and she's in her mid 20's. She played AO quallies this year, and has been doing quite well. I say good on her for persevering, coz she's finally getting somewhere! :D

bello
Apr 9th, 2002, 12:18 AM
A player must be pretty good to even get to the proifessional ranks, and be on the ranking system at all in my opinion!

SM
Apr 9th, 2002, 01:43 AM
For the love of the game? There are more produtive and satisfying things-albeit they might enjoy losing - they can do with their time if theyre ranked that low(ie Nancy)...and besides im sure they can always fit int he time to play even if they dont have a sanex WTA patch on their clothing

i understand some players justifiably can be ranked low because they are newcommers...but if you've been below 400 for years there comes a time to move on and i think its a rarity with what happened to Mireille etc, and yet i doubt they;re exactly capitalizing in monetary terms

AUSBOY
Apr 9th, 2002, 03:32 AM
I think there are very few players ranked in the top 1200 that aren't talented!

Nancy certainly can be disputed but there aren't too many others.

I think the difference between most players ranked 1200 and 400 is mainly mental anyway. A lot of it is just improving focus, mental toughness, attitude etc.

Sure Dittmann hasn't made a lot of money, she certainly wouldn't be ahead in money terms, last year was probably the first time she broke even! But now she will be able to enter Grand slam qualifying and benefit from higher seedings in challengers etc.

Even still, to travel the world for the year and break even is still a pretty good life, don't think too many people would give up that opportunity. A lot of young people travel anyway when they are young so no harm in trying to make some money along the way.

Also Mirielle is no exception, does Nicole Pratt ring a bell? McShea certainly has made some nice dollars. A lot of these players can make up for it in doubles.

DutchieGirl
Apr 9th, 2002, 03:44 AM
Good point about travelling - It's sort of like backpacking in a way... I mean backpackers travel around and work where they can so they can pay their way - I guess in a way, players in the challengers are doing the same. They get to travel, and by playing they earn money for their travels. So I guess if they break even it's not too bad at all. :D I mean unless the family is really rich, it must be hard to really get started in tennis, because the cost of travelling all the time is prohibitive!

Buitenzorg
Apr 9th, 2002, 08:32 AM
I'm Disagree with this opinion

whether you able or NOT.........is depend on the player itself, but for me to be a good player you need to have a goal, Don't easily to give up just like that, keep trying hard....you have to realise, to be a Great player you need time to build the Confident and your game..........

I'll give you example:

Angelique WIDJAJA (Indonesia)
She was a lowest ranking player on the WISMILAK International 2001 (she was rank # 578), but she's able to win the tournament and made her spot on to TOP 150.......as far as I know, Widjaja is typical player who'll never give up.

paul_masterton
Apr 9th, 2002, 05:11 PM
it depends, i mean last uyear, Linzi Reilly ranked 681 and 389 made just over 3000 dollars all year!!!!

A boy doing a newpaper round every morning earsn more than that!!!

Paul :D

DutchieGirl
Apr 11th, 2002, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by Katulampa
I'm Disagree with this opinion

whether you able or NOT.........is depend on the player itself, but for me to be a good player you need to have a goal, Don't easily to give up just like that, keep trying hard....you have to realise, to be a Great player you need time to build the Confident and your game..........

I'll give you example:

Angelique WIDJAJA (Indonesia)
She was a lowest ranking player on the WISMILAK International 2001 (she was rank # 578), but she's able to win the tournament and made her spot on to TOP 150.......as far as I know, Widjaja is typical player who'll never give up.

Yes, you are right, but Angie is still young, and we were really talking more about girls who had been on the tour for a few years, not girls who are just starting out like Angie. Of course if you are young, and still trying to make your way up the rankings, don't give up, but if you are say 25, and have been playing the tour for 8 years and still haven't broken into the top 400, don't you think it's time to do something else? Well, I said if they are breaking even money wise, then I guess it's ok, but if they are always losing money, then I'd say in most cases to give up and try something else.

Rising Sun
Apr 11th, 2002, 03:43 AM
I'm sure Keiko Tameishi is playing tennis for the fun of it more than any other reason.

She's already graduated from University, so she can do whatever she likes if she wants to, without wondering if she was going to make it big on the tour.

Let her enjoy a few years on the tour travelling around the world and experiencing new things, whether or not if she wins. I'm sure she knows she's not going to make it. :rolleyes:

CoryAnnAvants#1
Apr 12th, 2002, 07:34 PM
Not everyone plays on the tour to make a living. Take my brother for example. He played #3 on the 1994 Harvard team, and when he graduated, took a year off to play satellites for the fun of it. He said he enjoyed it immensely because he felt no pressure to do well, and knew where he would be next year. Although he only made $135 prize money, he made friendships he still has to this day. I plan on doing that as well after I graduate from college a few years from now, and I'm sure many satellite players have something to fall back on. If you're Likhovtseva and play 30 tournaments a year, you could make at the most $48,000 playing satellites. (1,600 winners check x 30) At that rate, you'd damn well better have sumthin to fall back on, unless you're a definite future top 20 star.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Apr 12th, 2002, 07:36 PM
Besides, the most important thing is that you tried. You don't want to look back on your life and say "What If?" If people like Tameishi go out and fall flat on their face, so what? They have other options, and at least she gave it her best, and I'm sure has some great memories to last her lifetime:)