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Geisha
May 20th, 2005, 01:07 AM
In the Qualifying Rounds of the French Open 2005:

Lourdes Dominquez Lino (11) def. Lioudmila Skavronskaia 6-1, 6-7 (9), 6-2 in two hours and one minute during the 1st Qualification Round. Lino hit 18 winners to 38 unforced errors. Skavraonskaia hit 26 winners to 79 unforced errors and 10 double faults!

Lenka Nemeckova has had a journey in her opening two matches. In her opening Qualifying match, Nemeckova defeated Canadian, Stephanie Dubios 1-6, 6-4, 10-8 in two hours and 36 minutes. Nemeckova hit nine double faults to only one ace. She also hit 19 winners to 58 unforced errors. Her opponent, Dubios, hit seven double faults to only two aces and 46 winners to 86 unforced errors. Lenka's second Qualifying match was also dramatic. She won 7-5, 0-6, 8-6 in two hours and one minute. Lenka hit zero aces to six double faults and 19 winners to 57 unforce derrors. Hana Sromova, her opponent, hit 30 winners to 58 unforced errors.

Clarisa Fernandez, former French Open semifinalist in 2002, defeated Laura Pous Tio 6-1, 5-7, 10-8 in two hours and 33 minutes. Clarisa hit 48 winners to 67 unforced errors and her opponent, Pous Tio, smacked 46 winners to 73 unforced errors.

My question is:

Does a claycourt produce bad tennis, no matter how well of a claycourter you are? Or, are these stats misleading and do not show how an actual player played?

vogus
May 20th, 2005, 03:34 AM
don't trust the winner/UE statistics too much. The criteria for what qualifies as an unforced error, is not standardized. Some of the statisticians are scoring every ball hit out of the court as a UE, while other stat keepers apply much more narrow standards.

JenFan75
May 20th, 2005, 05:53 AM
I just think it reflects how a lot of clay courters try to force errors or draw errors from their opponents.

Wojtek
May 20th, 2005, 05:56 AM
In the Qualifying Rounds of the French Open 2005:

Lourdes Dominquez Lino (11) def. Lioudmila Skavronskaia 6-1, 6-7 (9), 6-2 in two hours and one minute during the 1st Qualification Round. Lino hit 18 winners to 38 unforced errors. Skavraonskaia hit 26 winners to 79 unforced errors and 10 double faults!

Lenka Nemeckova has had a journey in her opening two matches. In her opening Qualifying match, Nemeckova defeated Canadian, Stephanie Dubios 1-6, 6-4, 10-8 in two hours and 36 minutes. Nemeckova hit nine double faults to only one ace. She also hit 19 winners to 58 unforced errors. Her opponent, Dubios, hit seven double faults to only two aces and 46 winners to 86 unforced errors. Lenka's second Qualifying match was also dramatic. She won 7-5, 0-6, 8-6 in two hours and one minute. Lenka hit zero aces to six double faults and 19 winners to 57 unforce derrors. Hana Sromova, her opponent, hit 30 winners to 58 unforced errors.

Clarisa Fernandez, former French Open semifinalist in 2002, defeated Laura Pous Tio 6-1, 5-7, 10-8 in two hours and 33 minutes. Clarisa hit 48 winners to 67 unforced errors and her opponent, Pous Tio, smacked 46 winners to 73 unforced errors.

My question is:

Does a claycourt produce bad tennis, no matter how well of a claycourter you are? Or, are these stats misleading and do not show how an actual player played?

Nemeckova and Sromova are poor players. Lenka just doesn't have shot to finish the points like Nagyova.

Shonami Slam
May 20th, 2005, 05:57 AM
yeah, don't trust the count too much
but even if they are fair -
clay courts are SLOW. plain and simple. even tough hitter can't outhit on the surface. and so you have to really go for your shots if you want them to hit fast, and that produces alot of UE, as for the winners, the girls are fast enough to get to anything, so it has to be really on the line so it skids if you want it to be special.
just like grass produces more and fast balls, so does the clay courts demand more building to the point and accuracy if you want it to be a good shot.
besides - dropshot is the official claycourt winner, so the stats are lying :P

Lady
May 20th, 2005, 06:36 AM
I heard on this board that RG counts all errors as unforced ones! :shrug:

Darop.
May 20th, 2005, 09:07 AM
Never trust Winners/UE stats.

Even if a player has an easy ball and tries to smack it down the line and makes an error, that's not unforced.

volta
May 20th, 2005, 09:23 AM
well fo me itīs more like less ecxitement long rallies that normaly end with erros. Grass and Hard are better i think we have more those WOW shots.

volta
May 20th, 2005, 09:25 AM
Never trust Winners/UE stats.

Even if a player has an easy ball and tries to smack it down the line and makes an error, that's not unforced.
yeah we canīt trust on them

Shonami Slam
May 20th, 2005, 11:30 AM
well fo me itīs more like less ecxitement long rallies that normaly end with erros. Grass and Hard are better i think we have more those WOW shots.
<sigh>
on the contrary!
serve bounces slow enough to give it a nice hit back, a few hits on at each other, someone goes down the line and the other cross courts it but it gets volleyed at the net, but the point still ain't over like in hard or grass!
the volley is hit back as a lob, to that the play must run back and this time is in the defensive position.
and don't forget the wonders of dropshot.
:worship:

volta
May 20th, 2005, 01:24 PM
<sigh>
on the contrary!
serve bounces slow enough to give it a nice hit back, a few hits on at each other, someone goes down the line and the other cross courts it but it gets volleyed at the net, but the point still ain't over like in hard or grass!
the volley is hit back as a lob, to that the play must run back and this time is in the defensive position.
and don't forget the wonders of dropshot.
:worship:
true but i like Grass and Hard court more. :p

SM
May 20th, 2005, 01:27 PM
ona slower surface naturally there will be more errors and less winners. its common sense.

Shonami Slam
May 20th, 2005, 01:34 PM
true but i like Grass and Hard court more. :p

i remember as a child (i'm 18 years old) on the yearly vacation from school watching the final of wimbledon.
they used to broadcast it on our national telly, and a big "live!" thingy was in the top left part of the picture.
i remember thinking they are ripping us off cuz each year there is the same dude winning, so it must be the same game (of course, i am reffering to pete sampras).
it's one of my funny tennis stories :)
i was too young to really remember the names with too many intrest, just the green grass, the aces and serve-volley, the usual 2-3 hour play that pete won each time - i thought it was quite boring after a while and that people with more things to do in life that i did would probably hate it.
it took me some time before i started watching more than just that yearly final, and the surface that i found most fascinating was clay.
for me - it brings out the best in tennis as a sport.
all other surfaces have more to strength and speed in them, the technique on clay is the most important issue.

alfajeffster
May 20th, 2005, 01:45 PM
<sigh>
on the contrary!
serve bounces slow enough to give it a nice hit back, a few hits on at each other, someone goes down the line and the other cross courts it but it gets volleyed at the net, but the point still ain't over like in hard or grass!
the volley is hit back as a lob, to that the play must run back and this time is in the defensive position.
and don't forget the wonders of dropshot.
:worship:

On the rare occasion that a girl does come to the net to volley, she nearly always gets passed, and the point stops there. It's one of the most unfortunate aspects of clay-court tennis: the footing as an attacking player is hitting the studder step to explode into the volley is so slippery that most players don't even attempt it. Even the attacking male players like Tim Henman and Patrick Rafter, who played pretty well on red clay, normally waited out the ralley and maneuvered their opponents with deft slice backhands before attacking and volleying.

Darop.
May 20th, 2005, 04:48 PM
the technique on clay is the most important issue.

You're joking.

To play on clay your stamina and leg power has to be SOOOO high, or after 2 hours of play, your dead.

the bambi
May 20th, 2005, 04:51 PM
it's not necessarily bad tennis. uninspired is more like it.

Shonami Slam
May 20th, 2005, 04:55 PM
You're joking.

To play on clay your stamina and leg power has to be SOOOO high, or after 2 hours of play, your dead.

ahh yes - the ever tiresome claycourts.
i'm hoping jelena jankovic learns it from the best - smashnova.
run, run, run, run.