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View Full Version : Who has benefitted the most from the absence of Mary and Lindsay?


TSequoia01
Apr 3rd, 2002, 01:34 AM
Which top player has benefitted the most from the absence of those two power players...Venus, Jen, Serena, Martina, or Seles. Let's look at their head to heads.

......................Mary........................ Lindsay

Martina ........10-6........................... 11-14
Venus...........5-2..............................9-10
Serena..........2-1..............................7-2
Jennifer.........2-0..............................2-7
Monica...........5-4..............................2-9

First let me say that I did not take into account the most recent matchups or surfaces where victories were obtained. I was looking just for a trend no matter how slight or large. But one thing is for sure both Jen and Monica are not missing Lindsay. It also seems that Martina may not be all that unhappy Mary has been missing. Lindsay probably will shake up the top 5 a great deal on her return. Not so sure with regards to Miss Meryl. :cool:

Hi Venus :wavey:

Hi Serena :wavey:

Hi Daniela "lil v" :wavey:

Jakeev
Apr 3rd, 2002, 08:14 AM
Well I don't necessarily think anyone in the top five at least benifit at all that Lindsay or Mary have been missing.

If anything it benifited the draws more than anything and allowed lower-ranked players to shine in certain events because Lindsay and Mary have not been in the draws.

Scotso
Apr 3rd, 2002, 12:10 PM
I think all top players have benefited because both Mary and Lindsay can beat anyone on any given day.

veronica
Apr 3rd, 2002, 12:31 PM
From your options, I would have to say Jennifer and Monica.

Martina vs. Lindsay is a toss up but Mary never bothered any of the listed players (aside from Monica) that much. If Lindsay had played the AO at 100% she would have won it this year. Jennifer did not play as consistently this year as last. Lindsay would have toasted her.

I would have to say it has benefitted Monica, Justine and Kim the most. If you factor Mary and Lindsay in at 100% their potential, you could insert Lindsay one above Martina and Mary one below her. Monica does not fair well against either Mary or Lindsay. Neither Kim nor Justine have the mental toughness to beat these two veterans when they are 100%. I would rank the players something like:

Jennifer
Venus
Serena
Lindsay
Martina
Mary
Monica
Kim
Justine
Amelie

Amelie dominated Pierce in 2000. She is a strange bird. So much potential not lived up to. :confused:

brickhousesupporter
Apr 3rd, 2002, 12:34 PM
I would say, any player who has a loosing record against these two players.

Top 10 specifically

Monica
Henin
Jennifer
Clijsters
Dokic

supremeross
Apr 3rd, 2002, 02:27 PM
I can't wait for Mary to get back to the top of her game. I think it will be really interesting because Mary hasn't played Jennifer since 1993 (FO) and Mary has never played Clijsters or Henin either!!! Now those are going to be some exciting matches when they happen and I don't know for sure if she has ever played Dokic. But I would have to say that Clijsters, Henin, Dokic and Capriati have benefitted the most and that free ride is about to come to an end. I fully expect Mary to be back in full effect by the US Open!!!

vw43
Apr 3rd, 2002, 02:33 PM
I agree with Scotso. Lindsay is capable of beating all the higher ranked players:

Jen
Venus
Serena
Martina
etc..

So I guess a lot of the women benefitted. I'm so interested in how things are going to play out once she is back and healthy.

:D

I don't really see Mary as being as much of a threat but I do not discount her.

TSequoia01
Apr 3rd, 2002, 03:26 PM
Of course everyone benefitted in the draws due to their absences, but some players fare better against these two than others. Consider at the AO Venus, Serena, Hingis, and Seles were all on the same side of the draw. Now if Lindsay was on the other half Jen may have had a much tougher time to the finals. That is why I believe Jen probably has benefitted the most. If Davenport was on the other side of the draw, then I would ask Stefano to be alittle fairer making out those sheets. :D

vw43
Apr 3rd, 2002, 06:29 PM
but who knows if Lindsay wouldn't have been on Serena's side of the draw at the Nasdaq etc...

Also, Jen's head to head against Lindsay pretty much ended just as Jennifer was starting to play her best tennis. The Jennifer of 2000 is hardly the Jennifer of 2001-2002.

Jen has a better record against Mary than Serena does.

Lindsay leads the head to head againt Venus and Martina.

Again, I think all the top players have benefitted with Lindsay and Mary out.

ys
Apr 3rd, 2002, 06:49 PM
Dokic.

Davenport terrorised her in the second half of last year. but then Dokic found a good replacement in Kremer.

Jessica02
Apr 3rd, 2002, 07:22 PM
All the top players have benefitted from Lindsays absence.

I wouldnt say so much from Mary's although now shes back She is definatley a dangerous floater. In any draw.

I cant imagine Jen, Marti, or Monica would like to play her in the 1st round of a tournie because they could be in for an early exit.

Volcana
Apr 3rd, 2002, 07:54 PM
Given a choice, I think they'd all rather face Mary, even Serena.

Jennifer has probably benefitted the most, since she has a terrible record against Lindsay, and won a GS title in her absence. But unless you're Serena, seeing Lindsay on the other side of the net means a long day at the office, win or lose.

TSequoia01
Apr 3rd, 2002, 08:06 PM
Volcana, you see it as I do. Lindsay is a load for anyone (great, great player) But I would bet, Jen's apprehensions exceed Serena's or Venus'. :cool: Oh Monica probably is breathing a sigh of relief also.

E. Blackadder
Apr 3rd, 2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by veronica
Neither Kim nor Justine have the mental toughness to beat these two veterans when they are 100%.

Well, I have to say that Kim and Justine are not mental tough enough to beat them but that will come very soon when they have a little more experience. They both are still very young, but they are very talented and in a few years they will dominate the WTA tour, that's for sure

vw43
Apr 3rd, 2002, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by TSequoia01
Volcana, you see it as I do. Lindsay is a load for anyone (great, great player) But I would bet, Jen's apprehensions exceed Serena's or Venus'. :cool: Oh Monica probably is breathing a sigh of relief also.

I've never, ever seen Jen look apprehensive. I don't think she is scared to play anyone. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

TSequoia01
Apr 3rd, 2002, 08:31 PM
I've never, ever seen Jen look apprehensive. I don't think she is scared to play anyone

First of all I know Jen is not scared that is why I used the word "apprehension". It is perfectly human to have some anxiety if someone has beaten you 7 out of 9 matches including the last two (of course I cannot know that). As opposed to Serena who has defeated Lindsay 7 out of 9. BTW the fact that Lindsay holds such an edge is telling. The big hitters including Seles are giving Jen fits. But Jen is a fighter and she has earned everything recently won. nuff said. :cool:

vw43
Apr 3rd, 2002, 08:52 PM
*sigh*

Okay, I will make one more attempt.

First of all, apprehensive adj. - to be fearful or uneasy about the future; anxious.

So, again, I have never seen Jen apprehensive, scared, fearful, uneasy or whatever regarding playing an opponent.

Secondly, Lindsay has not beaten Jen the last 7 out of 9 matches. Yes, they have played a total of 9 matches and Lindsay has won 7 but they are not consecutive and 5 of those wins took place between 1997-2000, obviously when Jen was not yet playing her best tennis.

And lastly, Jen is a fighter and has earned everything she has won, so people should not try to discredit her by saying she would not have won if another player had been in the draw.





:p

TSequoia01
Apr 3rd, 2002, 09:13 PM
*sigh*

I am going to try reach common ground one more time as well.
First of all, I did not state that Jen has lost the last 7 matches to Lindsay. What I said was she has lost 7 of 9 including the last two! Using your own logic, if you have lost 7 of 9 against an opponent including the last two, would you not be uneasy about prospect of future victory with regards to that person? Lastly, this thread was not to discredit Jen. I did not know the figures until they were researched. Actually I was surprised by some of the numbers. I was unaware she had that much trouble with Lindsay nor Monica. :cool:

huh?
Apr 3rd, 2002, 11:30 PM
well, I'm fair to certain that there's only one way to solve this....if only Lindsay could get her butt (or knee, rather:)) out of rehab and onto the court, we'd all know for sure...:):) but as my special powers of enlightenment hold no jurisdiction over ligaments, tendons, and joint structures, I guess I'll just have to wait like the rest of us....:)

However, I hold no doubts in this present uncertainty that Lindsay's got a pretty good hold over most of those players....shoot, I know I'd hate to see her coming (but I'm not much of a tennis player, so this might not be significant:D)

vw43
Apr 4th, 2002, 01:23 PM
TSequoia-

I'm sorry I misunderstood your post. I thought you were implying that Lindsay had beat Jen the last 7 times. I did not read closely enough. So, I'm with you there.

I'm not sure about your views of my logic. You said:

"Using your own logic, if you have lost 7 of 9 against an opponent including the last two, would you not be uneasy about prospect of future victory with regards to that person?"

I've made it fairly clear in other threads that I find head to head meetings somewhat irrelevant and I have also stated that, no, I don't think Jen would be uneasy or scared or however you want to word it, to play Lindsay.

Lastly, I'm sorry if I took your posts wrong. I felt you were singling out Jen as someone who would not have accomplished certain wins if Lindsay would have been healthy and competing. I agree that it is possible that Lindsay would have won some matches against Jen. Lindsay is a great player and my 2nd fave. However, I think it's silly to not also acknowledge that she could have also stolen some matches against Venus, Serena, Martina, Monica..etc...It is unfair to say that Jen has "benefitted the most".

Now, did your username use to be T4Runner1998 or something like that? I think I remember you from the Sanex Board.

Anyway, it was nice debating with you as you don't get immature or personal when someone has a difference of opinion. It's refreshing.

Thanks

:wavey: :wavey:

supremeross
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:32 PM
I think a more accurate and better question is: Who benefits the most when Venus and Serena doesn't enter a top tournament?

TSequoia01
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:35 PM
It has been a pleasure talking with you also vw43. There was nothing wrong with your logic. I stated the sentence wrong. It should have read "using your own word definitions". Anyway, I know few people on these boards, so it would be tough to get personal. I discuss tennis views for fun. When it ceases to be fun, I'm out. :cool:

supremeross
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:45 PM
TSequoia01, where is Lanthrop Village? Just curious, I grew up in Kalamazoo.

TSequoia01
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:51 PM
Oh yeah vw43, no I was not T4runner98.

Supremeross, Lathrup Village is a small city North of Detroit, close to Southfield, Mi

vw43
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:56 PM
supremeross:

My answer would be the same. All of the players would benefit. Just as all the players would benefit if Jennifer Capriati didn't enter a top tournament. :rolleyes:

Are you trying to imply something supreme? :kiss:

p.s. you grew up in kalamazoo? It's a small, small world.

vw43
Apr 4th, 2002, 02:58 PM
my bad TSequoia...My username had to do with my car as well. Volkswagon. More appropriate info for non-tennis perhaps, but I'm feeling chatty..

:wavey:

Bye Bye

supremeross
Apr 4th, 2002, 03:29 PM
VW43 are you a Michigander as well???

vw43
Apr 4th, 2002, 03:39 PM
:wavey:

Not really. I grew up mostly outside of South Bend, IN but did live in Ann Arbor for awhile. Also have so many nice memories of New Buffalo Beach, the Dunes, and the UP. Michigan is underrated in myh opinion. I would think even higher of it if it weren't so damn cold in the winter. ;)

vw43
Apr 4th, 2002, 03:39 PM
oh and try to be nicer to Jenny, you bully.;)

Tatiana Panova
Apr 4th, 2002, 10:30 PM
I think they have not missed Lindsay most especially Jenn. I remember late last year when Lindsay absolutely kicked Jen's butt indoor, and Jen looked totally overawed by Lindsay's power and determination. It was like Lindsay was saying "I'll show you who's boss b!*ch". It was quite funny.

Can't really comment on Mary because she has not played enough and a lot of those matches like against Jen were an eternity ago. Mary was never the threat that Lindsay was because she made too many mistakes, and some balls would go flying into the crowd and out of the stadium at crucial points:eek: !! But on her day Mary can be the best player in the world no doubt - it is her strength and also her weakness.

TSequoia01
Apr 5th, 2002, 03:53 AM
Tatiana you agree with me and Volcana. Jen may hate it when Lindsay returns. For all those who cannot see this, they might want to ask somebody. :cool:

vw43
Apr 5th, 2002, 01:07 PM
TSequoia - I just got off the phone with Jen and she said that she can't wait for Lindsay to come back :kiss:

Kart
Apr 5th, 2002, 08:44 PM
I think that Monica, Martina and Jennifer have benefitted from Mary and Lindsay's absence.

Notice I'm not complaining ;), although it would be nice to have them back fully fit :).