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Rollo
Apr 2nd, 2002, 04:18 AM
Sick, Tired, disgusted--

That sums up the way I feel after reading all the hate spewing forth around here. From all sides, in all directions. The one part of this board I used to enjoy was you could actually discuss tennis-remember that word

T-E-N-N-I-S ?

Not "I hate -----" or " you are such a -----". By now we bloody well know poster A has NOTHING positive to say about their fav's rival or NOTHING bad to say about their pet fav. How unoriginal or predictable can we get?


It makes me sick, tired, disgusted, and sad. I'm not interested in hearing, "well, if you don't like it skip the thread, etc", and for good reason. The mood of the whole board changes when threads get personal. Juvenile wars are one reason the old WTA board died. If this trend continues here this board may well do the same, with quality posters leaving and all that remains is one big cheering-jeering-fighting board.

I'd "hate" :fiery: to see it happen, cause I've come to love this board.

Peace:cool:

Jordan.
Apr 2nd, 2002, 04:25 AM
Well said,I agree...:wavey:

JCFan
Apr 2nd, 2002, 04:31 AM
I am with you Rollo. I come on here and see all these ridiculous bashing threads and just shake my head. It's getting difficult to ignore 'cause you go into a perfectly good thread (such as vw43's) and it turns hateful and disgusting. It's sad really.

Though I have also read a lot of great reports from posters who attend events, or get scores from posters willing to call tournies. So I have come to really enjoy this place...and at times despise it.

Rollo
Apr 2nd, 2002, 04:42 AM
It's great you brought up threads that DO give us real info JCFan:)
The "on-site" reports are great.

Bright Red
Apr 2nd, 2002, 04:58 AM
Good topic.

It would be nice if everyone were so kind and agreeable when it comes to posting on this board. However, I think a potential drawback is that it would be quite boring. And we'd lose a lot of people then, too.

Because of it, I'll take the board as it is, and keep the good and the bad. Besides, there's nothing like a bit of intense fan rivalry to get me pumped for a tournament.

Rollo
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:39 AM
Of course total agreement is boring, agreed there Bright Red:) but there's a world of difference between intelligent debate with differences in opinion(with the possibility of changing an opinion) and children shouting over top each other.

I LOVE to debate people I don't always agree with but whom I can respect because they know the game, are funny, and :eek: can admit they are wrong at times. To me those are true tennis fans, not the cheerleaders and jeerleaders whose answers I could type out as soon as I see their name.

Maybe it's an age thing. LOL@ old Rollo :D When I was younger I enjoyed the pointless cheering and jeering a lot more. Now I just see it for what it is IMO-pointless. I need to find an old timers board where I can curl up with a nice drink.

cynicole
Apr 2nd, 2002, 06:31 AM
I know the feeling Rollo.

I think my experience of the board has changed since I first signed on here. There seemed to be better conversation here months ago for some reason but now it's just "funny pages" (and that's putting it kindly).

I'd post more to circumvent some of it if I had the time (4 more weeks til then!). Granted, my posts were usually overly statistical, kinda boring, pro-shorty and would probably get pushed down the wazoo by all the "obvious" and "hate-spew" threads. :(

Rollo
Apr 2nd, 2002, 06:52 AM
Too bad we can't have more confrontations like your "Locker room Confrontations" thread cynicole-that cracked me up:) You put it nicely too-the overall quality of conversation has gone down recently-it's like wanting to see a presidential debate and only getting paid political ads, if you get my meaning.

BTW, who are the cartoon characters?

cynicole
Apr 2nd, 2002, 07:52 AM
Thanks for the compliment, Rollo. :)

Originally posted by Rollo
You put it nicely too-the overall quality of conversation has gone down recently-it's like wanting to see a presidential debate and only getting paid political ads, if you get my meaning.


And, to borrow the presidential debate metaphor, some of the threads start out looking like they'll be a great debate and then a candidate decides to change the subject to something more or less like a tired "catchphrase," "slogan" or "concept" he or she likes to repeat all the time.


BTW, who are the cartoon characters?

Dangermouse and Penfold. DM is the super agent and Penfold his rather ineffectual but goodmeaning sidekick. British cartoon by Brian Cosgrove that aired in the early 80s which used to be shown on Nickelodeon back in the day when Nickelodeon had like 3 original programs and imported everything else from abroad. *sigh* Maybe I'm just nostalgic for all the stuff I grew up with.

veryborednow
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:18 AM
:) great post Rollo, great idea, in practise will it ever happen? Probably never :sad: but I guess it's up to the select few to set the example

2ace2
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:30 AM
Well said!
:D

MaRKy MaRk
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:31 AM
Great post, Rollo! I'm with you 100%!

saki
Apr 2nd, 2002, 12:35 PM
Aw! I feel the same way. But I've learnt to just not read threads I know are going to be "ugly". It's tempting when you can see that that's the hot topic, but it's so much nicer when you don't know what the fight is about. Becuase I can't help trying to rationalise/calm down fights and then I just end up involved and waste my own time for no good purpose.

There are interesting TENNIS related threads here, you just have to find them...

TeNnIsFaN
Apr 2nd, 2002, 12:43 PM
I feel the exact same way, Rollo. Well said!!

vw43
Apr 2nd, 2002, 12:45 PM
Nice post, Rollo. :wavey:

sartrista7
Apr 2nd, 2002, 01:14 PM
Good post Rollo - totally agree. The worst thing about the 'hate' threads isn't so much the 'hate' though - that can be quite entertaining if you want to look at people making fools out of themselves - but the way it's all so predictable. Every time the same people say the same things in every single thread. Do they not get bored of typing it all out over and over again?

Jay
Apr 2nd, 2002, 01:26 PM
Yes Rollo!

my sentiments exactly

apoet29
Apr 2nd, 2002, 01:30 PM
I agree with you 100%. I feel that many threads are disrespectful to the players and the game. At times, the board becomes a competition of "my player is better than yours" and there really is no need for that. The WTA has so much depth right now that any player can win at this time and that makes the game even more exciting. It's a shame that many cannot see that.

Rollo, you definantly have my support here.

thefreedesigner
Apr 2nd, 2002, 02:35 PM
What I hate about threads like this is that everyone comes in here all nicey-nicey, and then sinks to exactly the same level should there own fave be under attack. :rolleyes:

Well maybe that's a little coarse from me, but unfortunately the people who need to be reading and replying to this thread, aren't actually doing it.

Nice try Rollo, but I think it's kind of falling on deaf ears because people love an argument, and when those arguments happen to be based on jack shit, they resort to conduct unbecoming of a lady or a gentleman. Unfortunately.

Tratree
Apr 2nd, 2002, 03:14 PM
I don't think it's falling on deaf ears. Rollo has a very valid point. I think the best we can do is keep it TENNIS and not personal and still have fun. Not many people want to see this board become a battlefield. Actually, some people probably really do enjoy it, but they probably spend a wee bit energy on this place than most. I've been caught up in posting wars on other boards and finally decided it was not worth upsetting myself....it's a stupid message board. I love this place because I can follow the happenings of tennis on it and discuss it with other fans since none of my friends or family really care about tennis. If you are concerned about all the hate, don't get sucked into it and don't respond. If they don't get a rise out of you, their mission has failed :) Enuff seriousness......MARY is back today!!!

Kart
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:02 PM
:sad: Don't be sad Rollo :sad:

This board exemplifies the joys of the internet (ie. interacting with tennis fans around he world :)) and its drawbacks (eg. having no age limit and no realistic way of enforcing one means that you can't stop people from saying stupid, hateful things :().

Anyway, what's all this nonsense about you being old - you're only as old as the woman/man you're feeling ;).

Here's a nice picture to cheer you up :).

http://www.infosel.com/Galeria_de_fotos/images/13/025424.jpg

BTW cynicole :), I used to love Dangermouse - Baron Greenback and Penfold were so cute :).

Rollo
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:04 PM
Poe-your puppy dog avatar is too cute for words:)
Thanks for weighing in on this. Lets hope it gets better and people behave more like :angel: than:fiery:

Your hot Gabby pics always get my old blood going Kart!:p

thefreedesigner
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:05 PM
The point is that posters have to take responsibilty for their own actions.

Many of us stay clear of threads we know are deliberately inflammatory, others wade in trying to make a difference, failing miserably since many don't want to listen to reason.

I myself am no shrinking violet, but have been quite literally shocked at some things I've read about a particular player (this aside from the well established factions), in awful derogatory terms. No-one even murmured at this, so I held my tongue. But I was fuming.

I love the passion that flows from all on this board, and hate the fact that we would need a thread like this to try and retain a certain amount of balance. It's an innate sense of judgement (and love of tennis, as Rollo initially mentions) that will make these things happen.

I guess I hate cliques of all kinds... and having people come in here holier-than-thou,and all loviness - when anyone who ever had a decent idea in their head KNOWS that the ugliness pervading this board is wrong - isn't really my idea of a solution to things.

veryborednow
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:07 PM
Couldn't a moderator lock up the hate threads? or is freedom of speech an issue there??

thefreedesigner
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:12 PM
Well personally I think there are immense freedom of speech issues.

After all how many times have you looked in a thread where some 'wiseguy' wades in with the words 'Hater' when nothing more than mild, considered and constructive criticisms have been offered.

veryborednow
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:13 PM
so, that's a no then? :p

Fingon
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:14 PM
Rollo, I don't know if I am included among those who you consider start flaming threads (re: my thread about why Williams fans can't be happy), if I am I can sound hypocritical, and I recognize that some times I get heated up. But I have to say I agree with you.

In fact, my intention with that thread was precisely to address that point somehow, maybe I was too naive thinking it would be understood, and I think (*crossing fingers*) that I will try to ignore certain threads and posters. Although it's remarkably difficult as some days it seems there is nothing else :mad:

I don't know about the players forums where it seems most of the hate is spread, I don't visit them.

I think a big part of the problem is that tennis has been put in a second place. Many fans (and not talking about any particular group here) reverence their favourites, which is ok, but not when any comment on them is taking as a personal attack by the fan.

For me, tennis comes first, I now root for Justine Henin, but I was a tennis fan well before Justine started to play and (I hope) will continue being one when she retires.

I don't want to discuss about the race, nationality, or sexual preferences of the players, but their tennis. I am often asked why I like a player and dislike another, like having to justify my prefereneces or othewise marked as a hater/racist/homophobic/... (choose one).

My opinion, and I hope this doesn't sound arrogant but it's only a fact, in recent times, many fans have been brought to tennis, many of them by their "love" for a particular player, for different reasons, and without really liking or understanding the game. It happens that when a real tennis fans wants to discuss that player's game, they take offense if you say anything negative, so, that players is excluded of any intelligent debate because unless you are all praises it degenerates in a fight. If you think that nearly all top players have fans like that, you come to the conclusion you can't talk about any top player at all, so, what can we talk about?

To give you a good example, even when I criticized my former # 1 favourite Martina Hingis, I got backlash from some fans saying I was just a fair weather fan etc.
AT least I know that when you, or Brian Stewart, or Disposable Hero, or Volcana, to name a few start a thread, it will likely be about tennis and seriously taken, so, more or less I can target my thread reading :)

thefreedesigner
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:19 PM
Fingon, I have to say that particular thread you're talking about was a PERFECT example of a valid topic, gotten hold of at completely the wrong end by some people. And I thought you defended your initial points very well througout.

And you can't legislate for people getting the wrong end of the stick, because 9 times out of 10 people WILL see only what they want to see in posts.

veryborednow
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:24 PM
Is it me but I've noticed two things -->

1) it's worse at the end of a tournament, specifially Aus Open, Scottsdale and Miami

2) it's gotten much worse over the past 2 weeks

Ty
Apr 2nd, 2002, 05:36 PM
Thats a really good post Rollo!

I wanna add to this topic, but being a new member people might not take notice of me, but i want to say:

Why cant everyone hear respect each others views? I mean you dont go shouting abuse at your neighbour cause they have painted their fence blue and you like red. Everyone needs to try and respect each others views.

So for example, if i said Monica Seles is the best player in the world, many would disagree and start saying insults about her, or come up with some faults. Why cant people just respect that posters view?

i suppose thats what lifes all about isnt it, tollerance and respect.

Some people lack either.

Mark43
Apr 2nd, 2002, 07:06 PM
Good post Rollo. I just don't know why there are so many negative threads. It used to be that way at the MSNBC.com tennis boards until they shut it down after sept 11th.

I just had the greatest tennis week of my entire life (greatest week period, for that matter) and I would hope to come in here to share our thoughts and all I see is garbage. I think you are probably dead-on when it comes to maturity level, etc.

Keep up the good work. I always enjoy your posts!

-Mark

moon
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:29 PM
I agree that too many people take things seriously on this board, and I also agree there seem to be a few posters who post ALOT who seem to have a vested interest in all the drama. :(

My advice would be to try to ignore all the garbage and look for the good stuff. Sometimes it's like trying to find a needle in the haystack, ;) but it's there.

Bright Red
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:49 PM
Negative is a really broad word. From what I've observed, there are several behaviors that could be considered negative/bad, such as saying bad things about a poster or a particular player, or using vulgar language (swearing or explicitly sexual, etc., ). The only one I have a real problem with is making personal attacks against posters. Personally, I think that that type of behavior is totally inappropriate for this board. The others, I don't mind.

I think the the most interesting discussions come from people being open and honest about how they feel, and expressing themselves in a way that they feel is best. Often I don't like what some posters say about my faves, but I would much rather they be allowed to say it, so long as I'm entitled to defend my faves, and speak my mind about their faves, or any player for that matter. In fact, I feel a sense of satisfaction in defending my faves, or in seeing one of my co-fans defend. Many times it's humorous. Also, my fave's victory is so much sweeter if she'd been put down.

Of course some people cross the line, but where exactly is the line? Some people actually feel sad, tired and disgusted when fans celebrate their faves victory. How should fans celebrate? There are myriad cultures, preferences, senses of humor, etc, represented on this board. For this reason, it's too difficult to say where the line is, because what you find acceptable may be offensive to someone else-and much of it depends on who your fave is, and how she fared, or is faring.

I know you're just stating how you feel. In fact, a lot of things certain posters do could make me sad, tired, and disgusted if I'd let them. I choose not to give them that power over me.

Va'Shaundra
Apr 2nd, 2002, 08:55 PM
I finna stop comin here cuz there be mad hata's up n chea. Tired of da shizzat. :rolleyes:

*Izzy*
Apr 2nd, 2002, 09:11 PM
Thank you Rollo!http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/s/contrib/sarge/Grin_anim.gif

You've put into words what a lot of people were thinking (including me). I hardly ever post in General Messages because whenever I pop over, the first thing I see is a "Let's slag off so-and-so" thread, or something along those lines.

Yes, I think people should be able to say what they think, but if that leads to unnecessary arguments then what's the point? Everyone loves a good argument, but it seems some people are taking it to far. That's my random ramblings out the way, make of it what you will. :p

BTW Kart, that's a great pic of Gaby!:hearts:

CellJr300
Apr 2nd, 2002, 11:38 PM
I would have to agree. This may be my 1st post to these boards, but I have been here for a while, and never really felt like posting because of all the negativity that usually creeps its way into a lot of the threads. I have my opinions, but never really felt like going through the hassle of making them known, based on a lot of the responses that I have been reading since I first found these boards. There are many people here who do respond intelligently, and their posts are usually the only ones that I pay attention to anymore. It is just hard trying to weed through a lot of bad posts to get to the ones that are good

Oizo
Apr 3rd, 2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by veryborednow
Is it me but I've noticed two things -->

1) it's worse at the end of a tournament, specifially Aus Open, Scottsdale and Miami

2) it's gotten much worse over the past 2 weeks
Yes it´s true :(