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View Full Version : Terrorists can buy guns, and there's nothing the government can do about it


Helas
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:00 PM
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7138924/#050309d
If you're on the FBI's terror watch list, there are a lot of things you can't do: You can't work at an airport, you're not supposed to be able to fly on a plane, you can't get on a cruise ship to the Bahamas— but apparently you can go out and buy yourself a gun.
A new report from the independent General Accounting Office in Washington found that terrorists, or those suspected of being involved in terrorism, are buying guns just as easily as everybody else. The director of the FBI came out today and confirmed that.

In just nine months last year, 47 suspected terrorists legally purchased firearms and according to Director Robert Mueller, there's nothing the FBI can do about it. Under the nation's gun laws, unless you are a terrorist who also happens to be a convicted felon, a domestic violence offender, an illegal immigrant, or mentally deficient, the FBI can't stop you from purchasing a personal firearm. Are we saying that our love for guns outweighs our fear of potential terrorists?

To make things worse, after they've purchased their weapons, the federal government legally had to destroy the background checks within 24 hours. Congress passed that law last year so that the feds wouldn't be able to use gun-buying records for law enforcement purposes.
This is insane.

I know all about the Second Amendment. I wrote a law review article about it and I know there are serious problems with the terror watch list. There have been numerous cases of mistaken identity. The Department of Homeland Security even admitted in October it's doing a pretty shabby job of coordinating the list. But if the list is going to mean anything, it should at least prevent people whose names are on it from buying weapons. If there's a mix-up because the watch list is faulty, that can be cleared up with some additional investigation. The airlines do it every day.

Congress should act now to make sure terrorists can't use this nation's lax laws to create private arsenals to use against our own citizens.

SilK
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:06 PM
guns don't kill people... people kill people

Helas
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:10 PM
guns don't kill people... people kill people

Guns are designed to kill people:rolleyes:

dementieva's fan
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:40 PM
Guns are designed to kill people:rolleyes:

Only mentally sick people use guns to harm others.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:43 PM
guns don't kill people... people kill people

My thoughts exactly.

Cariaoke
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:45 PM
Only mentally sick people use guns to harm others.
hmm... wonder why we haven't heard of the rampant problem of mental illness that's devastating the United States and the world? ;)

SilK
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:47 PM
Guns are designed to kill people:rolleyes:

have you ever seen a gun kill somebody all by itself?
I haven't!

As long as there are people, people will be killed. A gun can't harm anybody when it is not handled by a man (or woman for that matter).

:cuckoo:

BUBI
Mar 11th, 2005, 02:56 PM
guns don't kill people... people kill people
Guns don't kill people... bullets kill people :sad:

SilK
Mar 11th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Guns don't kill people... bullets kill people :sad:

same story... the bullet is put in the gun by a person. the trigger is pulled by a person. so, in the end, a gun, nor a bullet can kill anybody... :(

Wigglytuff
Mar 11th, 2005, 03:40 PM
guns don't kill people... people kill people


"guns dont kill people"
by jigglypuff

we give them out to everyone like we give out tee shirts. give them to toddlers and convicted felons and child murders and the mentally unstabled and even pets. we give them out like we give out tee shirts, buy the lastest copy of pokemon and get a free gun. and since guns dont kill people, we dont make safeties on guns, after all you dont have a safety on a tee shirt do you?

and anyway, even if guns DO kill people its protected in the constitution, just like the right to own slaves and so on. and its a good thing that the constitution doesnt change with the times, because god forbid we have women voting, blacks running around unchecked. i mean thats we need our guns to protect our daughters from that black man lurking in the corner just waiting to steal our vcr's and our children and take them into the .... well where ever it is that black "people" (or 3/5s there of as stated in our unchanging consitution) take our children to and eat them.

theres are reason we give out guns with pokemon games because, guns dont kill people. you've never heard of a child using of teeshirt or a gun to kill someone? of course not, because guns, like tee shirts dont kill people. people kill people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

the reality that some americans feel so entitled to having guns that they dont care who are what gets killed in the process. the NRA has made it a mission to have rallies and meetings after school shootings. there message has been clear and unchanging "we have to right to have guns. we dont care if children take them into schools and kill people. we have the right to have guns. get metal detectors, more police, SWAT teams whatever you need to do, as long as "WE" get to keep our guns. so what if america has the highest rate of handgun deaths in the world. we dont care if every other american child is killed with a gun, GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE!!! dont take our guns. look at Japan. In japan no one is allowed to have guns and people use knives and forks to kill each other and 10,000s of people are murdered in Japan and every other country where the populus are not allowed to have guns. so GIVES US OUR GUNS!!!! beside we should be able to take down deer fowls with AK47s if we want to."

SilK
Mar 11th, 2005, 04:42 PM
the point I tried to make was that no matter if there are guns or not, people will get killed anyway. because it's the person that makes the choice to kill someone, shoot him, stab him, whatever... it's the person behind it that does it. hence, people kill people. and in my humble opinion, guns do NOT kill people. And I am not pro-guns. :)

Wigglytuff
Mar 11th, 2005, 06:00 PM
the point I tried to make was that no matter if there are guns or not, people will get killed anyway. because it's the person that makes the choice to kill someone, shoot him, stab him, whatever... it's the person behind it that does it. hence, people kill people. and in my humble opinion, guns do NOT kill people. And I am not pro-guns. :)

that was the same copy paste rant i always give whenever i here the phrase "guns dont kill people"

also the thing about people would kill each other en masse if they didnt have guns would be a good point....if it were true. its just not. in warfare death rates have historically been much higher in cases where guns are used. in times of peace, murder rates in nations like japan where guns are much hard to access are 100s of times lower than in places like the US were you can get gun relatively easily.

guns do kill people. period.

BUBI
Mar 11th, 2005, 06:14 PM
the point I tried to make was that no matter if there are guns or not, people will get killed anyway. because it's the person that makes the choice to kill someone, shoot him, stab him, whatever... it's the person behind it that does it. hence, people kill people. and in my humble opinion, guns do NOT kill people. And I am not pro-guns. :)
If you are not pro-guns it's even harder to understand what is your point. This thread was about weather or not guns should be legally sold to anyone willing to buy. Would you sell a gun to your enemy, thinking "he will kill me anyway if he wants"? I would not.

K.U.C.W-R.V
Mar 11th, 2005, 08:08 PM
If you are not pro-guns it's even harder to understand what is your point. This thread was about weather or not guns should be legally sold to anyone willing to buy. Would you sell a gun to your enemy, thinking "he will kill me anyway if he wants"? I would not.

Maybe guns should be sold to anyone who is willing to buy EXCEPT children, the mentally ill, criminals & PEOPLE ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST - I'm sure some kind of database could be set up to more efficiently prevent undesirables from getting hold of firearms.

Stopping the sale of guns accross the board only penalises law abiding citizens who want to protect their property, because if necessary criminals & terrorists can always get guns through illegal channels.

Gun ownership is extremely tightly restricted in the UK but criminal elements in our major cities can easily get hold of weapons by means of the large-scale illegal importation of firearms from the former Yugoslavia.

SilK
Mar 11th, 2005, 08:45 PM
so, to stick to the subject... no, I do not think guns should be legally sold to anyone willing to buy. sure, sure, when somebody needs a gun, wants a gun, they will get it one way or the other. but God forbid, lets not make it any easier than it appearantly already is. and with me saying this, I suddenly do understand what Jigglypuff means :eek:

Justeenium
Mar 11th, 2005, 09:53 PM
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=366560

/thread

Justeenium
Mar 11th, 2005, 10:07 PM
guns do kill people. period.

alcohol kills people too.

flyingmachine
Mar 11th, 2005, 11:05 PM
Look at the end of the day if the terrorist have the will there will be a way weather is guns, bombs, knives or whatever.

Wigglytuff
Mar 11th, 2005, 11:11 PM
alcohol kills people too.

LOL nice try.
but no.

one glass of legal wine once in a lifetime kills none

one legal gun in the posesion of the legal owner can (and has) kill hundreds of people.

:wavey:

the difference is subtle but profound.

gun facts:
In the 14 deadliest mass shootings committed in wealthy nations during the past 35 years:

* 79% of the victims were shot with lawfully held firearms (185 of 233 victims)
* 86% of these mass shooting (12 of 14) were committed by lawful gun owners

Many killers, like the 19-year-old who shot 16 people dead at his school in Germany, were previously law-abiding sporting shooters or pistol club members - men whose legal ownership of guns was not questioned by authorities until after the tragedy.

and a second aside:
Cigarettes kill more Americans than AIDS, alcohol, car accidents, murders, suicides, drugs and fires combined.

and you are damn right i think that cigarette smoking should be illegal in all public places even sidewalks.

Justeenium
Mar 11th, 2005, 11:22 PM
LOL nice try.
but no.

one glass of legal wine once in a lifetime kills none

one legal gun in the posesion of the legal owner can (and has) kill hundreds of people.

:wavey:

the difference is subtle but profound.



and a second aside:
Cigarettes kill more Americans than AIDS, alcohol, car accidents, murders, suicides, drugs and fires combined.

and you are damn right i think that cigarette smoking should be illegal in all public places even sidewalks.

hahahhaha

http://alcoholism.about.com/library/narmort01.htm

one glass of legal wine once in a lifetime kills none
a few shots of legal alcohol can do a quite a bit of damage. Does Good Friday 1989 ring a bell?

Wigglytuff
Mar 11th, 2005, 11:37 PM
hahahhaha

http://alcoholism.about.com/library/narmort01.htm


a few shots of legal alcohol can do a quite a bit of damage. Does Good Friday 1989 ring a bell?

i said one gun or one glass not "a few".

see if you legally consume booze in a legal way, within a legal setting. i have heard of no case of people being killed or dying.

what you posted arenumbers that refer to people with addictions. and an addiction to ANYTHING will kill (even sugar or coffee), or people who consume in ways against the law (in a car, blah blah) or people who use the fact that they are drunk as an excuse to engage in things they know good and well are wrong. people use the fact that they have been fired as excused to engage in fucked up shit.


For example:
Cat Shoots Owner
2 hours, 29 minutes ago


BATES TOWNSHIP, Mich. - A man cooking in his kitchen was shot after one of his cats knocked his 9mm handgun onto the floor, discharging the weapon, Michigan State Police said.

Joseph Stanton, 29, of Bates Township in Iron County, was shot in his lower torso around 6 p.m. Tuesday, the state police post in Iron River reported. He was transported to Iron County Community Hospital.

Michelle Sand, a spokeswoman at the Iron River hospital, said Stanton was treated there before being transferred to Marquette General Hospital for further treatment. But Marcie Miller, a representative of the Marquette facility, said there was no record of the hospital receiving a patient by that name.

A telephone message seeking comment was left Wednesday at Stanton's home.

State police said he was cooking at his stove when the cat knocked the loaded gun off the kitchen counter behind him.

now if you want argue that to same thing would of happened if it was a glass of wine or even knife in that same spot. you are in a planet that not even i can reason with.

Wigglytuff
Mar 11th, 2005, 11:41 PM
if you want to talk about what a "few" guns can do, just look at the postal shotings tour 1983-2003.

Wigglytuff
Mar 11th, 2005, 11:46 PM
look what a "few" cheese burgers can do:

http://www.bongonews.com/StoryImages/thong_small.jpg

no i am more concerned with what one legal gun owner can do with one legally obtained gun.

no i am sorry, just one drinking glass of wine isnt going to do this

http://www.louisxvimannequins.com/special_fx/gun_shot.jpg

dementieva's fan
Mar 12th, 2005, 05:35 AM
Even if guns are not sold to those mentally ill terrorists they will find another way to harm others, just look what they did at WTC.

BUBI
Mar 12th, 2005, 05:39 AM
Even if guns are not sold to those mentally ill terrorists they will find another way to harm others, just look what they did at WTC.
So, why it should be made easier? :tape:

No legal guns for terrorists :mad:

dementieva's fan
Mar 12th, 2005, 07:51 AM
So, why it should be made easier? :tape:

No legal guns for terrorists :mad:

I agree that guns should not be sold to those terrorists, but still they will find other ways to disrupt peace.

The only way to bring them under control is that which ever terrorist is caught should be executed in front of everyone so that no one even dares to help these mentally ill people or become like them.

pla
Mar 12th, 2005, 08:02 AM
I agree that guns should not be sold to those terrorists, but still they will find other ways to disrupt peace.

The only way to bring them under control is that which ever terrorist is caught should be executed in front of everyone so that no one even dares to help these mentally ill people or become like them.

This will change absolutely nothing. The kind of terrorists that hit the WTC are ready and happy to die. Do you think a lethal injection will stop them? :lol:

About the topic, guns should be very restricted. The problem is not that terrorists will get the guns but kids will have access to them, people who get mad at something one day, teenagers that want to prove how "BIG" etc. They will have access to the guns and those kind of people can make a lot of harm to the others and themselves.