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View Full Version : Animal Skinning Video - Please do not buy fur...


Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:16 AM
The link below is a video of the process of skinning an animal.

You may think it's no big deal if the animal is already dead.
But no, they skin them alive:(

Please help spread the message to save these poor animals. They deserve the right to live.

http://my.so-net.net.tw/sirwang/fur.wmv

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:27 AM
I view the video and felt very upset when they did a close up on the racoon's face..

the poor animal was tearing :sad:

V.Melb
Mar 2nd, 2005, 09:02 AM
The video is very graphic.
However, Racoons are vermin and do spread disease.

They should find more pain-free ways to exterminate their animals. It should be quick for the poor animal; being banged on the ground is not very efficient is it? ;)

V.Melb
Mar 2nd, 2005, 09:08 AM
actually. i watched this video further. it is very disturbing.
I promise i will never buy Racoon Fur.
I cannot beleive they skinned the Racoon ALIVE! .... i can't even eat meat tonight! :(

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 2nd, 2005, 09:15 AM
yes..tt was what i thought too..
I thought the racoon was dead after being slammed on the ground but it was not :(
it was only unconscious :sad:

The raccoon was still alive after skinning and it looks really sad..I pray people will really ban fur everywhere soon :sad:

Wigglytuff
Mar 2nd, 2005, 11:26 AM
i am sorry i can not watch the video. i have a very weak consitution when it comes to things like this.

i do not understand what kind of monster would skin a living animal, or even why?

kabuki
Mar 2nd, 2005, 12:04 PM
That was horrifying, disgusting, and unbelievably cruel.

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 2nd, 2005, 01:34 PM
:crying2: Down with Fur!!!!!!!!!

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2005, 01:58 PM
I won't watch the video because I don't wear fur anyways, for a much less serious reason: Fur is FUGLY. FUGLY. I don't understand why anybody who doesn't live off the land up north, where it's actually practical to wear fur, would want to.

Oh, and while I'm here let me share another one of Rebecca's pet peeves with you: anti-fur activists who wear *fake* fur. I don't care if it's fake. If there is the slightest possibility that anybody might look at it and think that it's real, then you're hurting your own cause.

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2005, 04:25 PM
I don't wear fur, but I think others should be able to be free to wear what they want without being criticized. I do know people who wear furs, and minks and they are most likely not aware of the animal cruelty. However, I don't feel they are evil at all. Bash me if you wan't, but that's my opinion.

alexusjonesfan
Mar 2nd, 2005, 04:33 PM
I didn't know Raccoon was a type of fur in demand :scratch: A while back, a class of mine took a field trip to northern Ontario and got to see animal traps, spoke with a fur trader and even saw a video of how he extracted a beaver pelt. I agree it can be cruel, especially with some traps where animals can chew off their own limbs in order to escape and other traps which don't kill the animal, just crush it as it dies slowly. Still, there are organisations of fur traders now which try to ensure that humane traps are used and fur is still big business and provides a living for many people. I don't have any because it's impractical, but I own lots of leather and suede and eat lots of types of meat which I'm sure was 'obtained' cruelly. Doesn't bother me I guess :shrug:

Hulet
Mar 2nd, 2005, 04:48 PM
Don't want to watch the movie, but is there a "practical" reason for skinning the animal alive? :confused:

griffin
Mar 2nd, 2005, 05:07 PM
It's more that they want to kill or incapacitate the animal in a way that is cheap (bullets cost money, ya know) and doesn't damage the skin - which lowers its value. Sadly, those methods are more effective for saving the "value" of the fur than saving the animal from suffering.

Hey harloo - I think YOUR skin would make a nice hat. Whadya say?

I'm sorry, but I don't think vanity is sufficient to justify such cruelty.

Josh B.
Mar 2nd, 2005, 05:23 PM
I have only seen 7 minutes of this film so far, and im disgusted with those twats. I have a good mind to find them, and skin those men alive, see how they like it!!

Hate those tossers! :fiery:

Wigglytuff
Mar 2nd, 2005, 05:37 PM
<long-winded rant>
i understand that some people name feel "innocent" because they wear fur but do not know the cruelty involved in skinning an animal alive. i also understand bullshit when i hear it, and that is bullshit.

any adult of below average intelligence or higher, understands what skin is and what purpose it serves. No adult of below average intelligence can expect 1- an animal to live without its skin, 2- an animal raised and killed only for its skin to be a happy and well treated animal, 3- the skinning of a recently dead animal to be a pleasant experience, and/or 4- the skinning of a living animal to be anything short of sicking cruelty.

no, adults who wear fur are not "informed", instead it is a deliberate and personal choice to refused to 1- know what really happens and/or 2- CARE what really happens. in my book willfully ignorance about this level of inhumane abuse, while willfully FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING IT (that is paying for animal furs), is not something deserves any level of leniency. indeed these self gratifying circles of ignorance are just as vile as the act of skinning animal alive.</long-winded rant>

in short: people who wear fur and claim to not know, don't want to know because they are selfish little shits, and care more about (tacky, heartless) fashion than actually giving half a fuck, and i think they are just as bad as if they skinned the animals alive themselves.

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2005, 06:15 PM
Hey harloo - I think YOUR skin would make a nice hat. Whadya say?

I'm sorry, but I don't think vanity is sufficient to justify such cruelty.

So are you implying that I'm some type of animal?

I did not justify the cruelty, but I do feel one has a choice to wear fur and should not be red painted or scrutinized for doing so. The people who should be brought to justice are the culprits of this animal cruelty.

alexusjonesfan
Mar 2nd, 2005, 06:16 PM
<long-winded rant>
i understand that some people name feel "innocent" because they wear fur but do not know the cruelty involved in skinning an animal alive. i also understand bullshit when i hear it, and that is bullshit.

any adult of below average intelligence or higher, understands what skin is and what purpose it serves. No adult of below average intelligence can expect 1- an animal to live without its skin, 2- an animal raised and killed only for its skin to be a happy and well treated animal, 3- the skinning of a recently dead animal to be a pleasant experience, and/or 4- the skinning of a living animal to be anything short of sicking cruelty.

no, adults who wear fur are not "informed", instead it is a deliberate and personal choice to refused to 1- know what really happens and/or 2- CARE what really happens. in my book willfully ignorance about this level of inhumane abuse, while willfully FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING IT (that is paying for animal furs), is not something deserves any level of leniency. indeed these self gratifying circles of ignorance are just as vile as the act of skinning animal alive.</long-winded rant>

in short: people who wear fur and claim to not know, don't want to know because they are selfish little shits, and care more about (tacky, heartless) fashion than actually giving half a fuck, and i think they are just as bad as if they skinned the animals alive themselves.

I don't think most people claim ignorance. I mean how stupid would you have to be to not realize where what you're wearing came from? I don't think they care...just like I don't care. I know the garbage I throw out destroys yada yada acres of endangered species land every year, I know the filet mignon I had last night probably didn't have a comfortable death, I know free-range chicken is just a scam to charge more money, I know the soap I showered with this morning probably gave cancer to many rodents before it came on the market and frankly, since I'm not a tree-dwelling vegan, I don't care :shrug:

They played the infamous cat skinning documentary at the Toronto film festival last fall and I think the people who made the original video did have a valid point. It was a dumb way of making it, but they did have a point.

:Rawwb:
Mar 2nd, 2005, 06:34 PM
I cant see how people could do things to another living thing :sad: This makes me sad and angry.

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2005, 06:35 PM
I don't think most people claim ignorance. I mean how stupid would you have to be to not realize where what you're wearing came from? I don't think they care...just like I don't care. I know the garbage I throw out destroys yada yada acres of endangered species land every year, I know the filet mignon I had last night probably didn't have a comfortable death, I know free-range chicken is just a scam to charge more money, I know the soap I showered with this morning probably gave cancer to many rodents before it came on the market and frankly, since I'm not a tree-dwelling vegan, I don't care :shrug:

They played the infamous cat skinning documentary at the Toronto film festival last fall and I think the people who made the original video did have a valid point. It was a dumb way of making it, but they did have a point.


I agree with this post. But let me clarify what I was attempting to say about people being ignorant about animal cruelty.

You would be suprised at the people who wear fur and who are not informed about the abuse of animals. It's just like the public not being informed about anything that goes on in Washington.

I also agree that some just don't care either. I worked for 3 years in the entertainment industry and have encountered many people who knew nothing about the animal abuse involved in making a fur or mink. However, I was never in a position to tell them anything because I would surely lose my job.

For the most part, I am spilt on this issue. I believe in personal freedoms and if it's not against the law noone has the right to tell others what to wear. However, I can see the other side of the issue clearly concerning the abuse of animals. I'm taking an unpopular stance, but that's my opinion.

Becool
Mar 2nd, 2005, 06:45 PM
This video is really disturbing.. I hope people will realize what they're wearing after watching this..

Infact I hope this video is played in all tv's in the whole world, to warn people to stop wearing fur..

griffin
Mar 2nd, 2005, 06:58 PM
So are you implying that I'm some type of animal?

I did not justify the cruelty, but I do feel one has a choice to wear fur and should not be red painted or scrutinized for doing so. The people who should be brought to justice are the culprits of this animal cruelty.

No, I'm implying that there is a difference between right and wrong, and it can't always be dismissed as just someone else's personal decision.

Not have paint thrown at you? That I'll grant you, but not scrutinized (or criticized)? Sorry, no. Peer pressure does have its place, imo.

steve2005
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:02 PM
this is disgusting, fair enough racoons spread diseases but so do some people, we dont skin them. I think the person skinning the poor animal is sick.

Hulet
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:16 PM
It's more that they want to kill or incapacitate the animal in a way that is cheap (bullets cost money, ya know) and doesn't damage the skin - which lowers its value. Sadly, those methods are more effective for saving the "value" of the fur than saving the animal from suffering.

So, they have a strange justification for it other than pure sadism, which of course doesn't make it less tolerable.

griffin
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:25 PM
So, they have a strange justification for it other than pure sadism, which of course doesn't make it less tolerable.

No, it doesn't.

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:28 PM
No, I'm implying that there is a difference between right and wrong, and it can't always be dismissed as just someone else's personal decision.

Not have paint thrown at you? That I'll grant you, but not scrutinized (or criticized)? Sorry, no. Peer pressure does have its place, imo.


Who determines what is right or wrong pertaining to this issue? The public? Or is it only those who have the ideology that wearing fur makes one evil?

Personally, I feel those who are passionate about animal cruelty should go to their government to protest the unlawful practices. Blaming those people who wear furs and minks serves no purpose and has indeed been ineffective.

As long as consumers demand furs and minks their will be someone to make a profit. While it's unfortunate that animals sufffer because of personal style and fashion, I see no end to the demand.

While I don't agree with the animal cruelty, I do feel one's freedoms should be respected. I don't agree with alot of things, but if someone is not breaking the law who am I to question their morality?

You are correct though everyone does have a right to scrutinize or "criticize" someone's choices, however one does not have any right violating someone's freedoms.

CanadianBoy21
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:41 PM
Harloo - How would you feel if you were skinned????
Animals suffer too u know.
The government, eh? Sure, let the gov't handle it.
If a black man is skinned, or a gay person, or a women, will you ignore it and go to the government to protest and change the law, or would you actually stand up for that person right there and then? Although it is different situation, you get my point.
I am not a vegetarian, but this is sick! I think their are limits to everything. It's just barbarian to do some of these things.
It's a fine line sometimes, but people need to learn how to walk it.

griffin
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:47 PM
Personally, I feel those who are passionate about animal cruelty should go to their government to protest the unlawful practices. Blaming those people who wear furs and minks serves no purpose and has indeed been ineffective.

As long as consumers demand furs and minks their will be someone to make a profit. While it's unfortunate that animals sufffer because of personal style and fashion, I see no end to the demand.

First of all, this isn't an "either/or" situation - petitioning the government for changes in the law IS good and necessary. Who said it wasn't? But making people aware of the consequences of their choices is also effective - as is letting people know that other people disapprove of those choices. And it also begins to address the "consumer demand" bit. People wear fur because they think it's fashionable. People will be less likely to wear fur (or acid washed jeans, or whatever) if wearing fur becomes less fashionable and less acceptable.



While I don't agree with the animal cruelty, I do feel one's freedoms should be respected. I don't agree with alot of things, but if someone is not breaking the law who am I to question their morality?

You are correct though everyone does have a right to scrutinize or "criticize" someone's choices, however one does not have any right violating someone's freedoms.

Telling someone off for wearing fur does not violate their freedom. Reminding people their chosen lifestyle is built on hideous cruelty does not violate their freedom.

Who are you (or I) to question someone's morality or ethics? Thinking human beings, I should think.

Surely you can think of MANY occasions where someone did something that, while perfectly legal, you found repugnant. Hell, I'm sure we could find instances where someone on this board said something that was perfectly "legal" and allowable according to the rules, but you felt perfectly comfortable telling them they were wrong.

If you think it's ok to skin animals alive for the sake of fashion, please stand up and say so. That at least is and honest conversation. But again, to hide behind "who am I to say" or "as long as it's legal"? Really, that's grasping at straws.

Wigglytuff
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:48 PM
I don't think most people claim ignorance. I mean how stupid would you have to be to not realize where what you're wearing came from? I don't think they care...just like I don't care. I know the garbage I throw out destroys yada yada acres of endangered species land every year, I know the filet mignon I had last night probably didn't have a comfortable death, I know free-range chicken is just a scam to charge more money, I know the soap I showered with this morning probably gave cancer to many rodents before it came on the market and frankly, since I'm not a tree-dwelling vegan, I don't care :shrug:

They played the infamous cat skinning documentary at the Toronto film festival last fall and I think the people who made the original video did have a valid point. It was a dumb way of making it, but they did have a point.

i think its just cause i am home sick with the flu. but i read this post a few times and i have no idea what you are trying to say? :confused: :o :confused:

!<blocparty>!
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:51 PM
I can't watch the video, it would make me feel sick.

I can't eat fish anymore after a recent biology lesson in which I had to disect this herring and listen to the backbone crunch as I cut into it. ugh :scared:

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2005, 07:56 PM
Harloo - How would you feel if you were skinned????
Animals suffer too u know.
The government, eh? Sure, let the gov't handle it.
If a black man is skinned, or a gay person, or a women, will you ignore it and go to the government to protest and change the law, or would you actually stand up for that person right there and then? Although it is different situation, you get my point.
I am not a vegetarian, but this is sick! I think their are limits to everything. It's just barbarian to do some of these things.
It's a fine line sometimes, but people need to learn how to walk it.


Let me clarify this so noone else will misinterpret my opinion again:

I don't agree with animal cruelty and felt that the abuse displayed above was indeed inhumane.

What I am defending is someone's personal choice to wear fur which seems to be the where the controversy begins. So the assumptions that I'm justifying this type of behaviour is a fallacy.

harloo
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:15 PM
First of all, this isn't an "either/or" situation - petitioning the government for changes in the law IS good and necessary. Who said it wasn't? But making people aware of the consequences of their choices is also effective - as is letting people know that other people disapprove of those choices. And it also begins to address the "consumer demand" bit. People wear fur because they think it's fashionable. People will be less likely to wear fur (or acid washed jeans, or whatever) if wearing fur becomes less fashionable and less acceptable.

I will agree with this statement somewhat. However, I find that all the campaigning has been ineffective so far. The drastic measures some of these organizations take scares the public.




Surely you can think of MANY occasions where someone did something that, while perfectly legal, you found repugnant. Hell, I'm sure we could find instances where someone on this board said something that was perfectly "legal" and allowable according to the rules, but you felt perfectly comfortable telling them they were wrong.

True. However I think this is like comparing apples to oranges.


If you think it's ok to skin animals alive for the sake of fashion, please stand up and say so. That at least is and honest conversation. But again, to hide behind "who am I to say" or "as long as it's legal"? Really, that's grasping at straws.

For you to imply that I am somehow pretentious when discussing this issue is an insult. I have never bit my tounge on controversial issues even when my ideology was not popular. I have no need or desire to agree that skinning animals is humane. I am a bit suprised at your candor griff, because I am not use to you making assumptions.

Cher
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:23 PM
Let me clarify this so noone else will misinterpret my opinion again:

I don't agree with animal cruelty and felt that the abuse displayed above was indeed inhumane.

What I am defending is someone's personal choice to wear fur which seems to be the where the controversy begins. So the assumptions that I'm justifying this type of behaviour is a fallacy.

But With Wearing Fur, Animal Cruelty had to have happened.

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:28 PM
Well i won't even try to look at this video. I'm a vegetarian, huge animal activist, and such a movie would jsut be the end of my life! Even though i think showing such a movie is radical, i think it is necessary that it is shown. Such horrors happen all around the world, to a lot of species, and i think we live in a civilisation that has evolved enough in the aspt years to stop such crimes. But that may be my idealism :sad:

Wigglytuff
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:41 PM
What I am defending is someone's personal choice to wear fur which seems to be the where the controversy begins. So the assumptions that I'm justifying this type of behaviour is a fallacy.

i cant speak for other people for myself, as i said earlier choosing to finance such a practice is on par with doing the action itself.

legally speaking, i think that buying, selling, storing, transporting or trading in animal furs, other than those in which the animal was raised for a purpose other than the fur alone, killed in a humane matter, skinned after its death, and (not or) had all or most of its body parts used for non-cosmetic purposes should be ILLEGAL.

its not a matter of personal choice. thats bullshit. personal choice stops when that involves avoidable and unnecessary cruelty to animals (human or otherwise). i do not think that people who wear fur should have paint throw on them, i think they should be put jail, just as people who trade in elephant tusks and tiger dicks are.

someone said that not everything is about a clear right and a clear wrong, there are lots of points in between. when you talk about using animals in scientific research you have your pluses and your minuses, its a tricky issue. but you know, even though nothing is always right or always wrong, WE, as a society, set limits. legal limits. we say, no you may not kill someone because who did not like your dog. no, you may not use a 3 day old kitten as a football. no, you may not pay someone to force dogs to fight for sport. no, you may not kill an elephant for its tusks. i think we should say, no, you may pay someone to skin a small, mammal ALIVE, so that you wear the flesh for a hat.

in fact i can see no valid legal reason why something so cruel and inhumane is still legal. though, to be sure if it was a cat or dog in that video there would be riots.

Wigglytuff
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:47 PM
where do people who are against furs draw the line on animal cruelty?

funny you should ask, my other post was long, so i dont blame anyone for not reading it, but to answer your question

personal choice stops when that involves avoidable and unnecessary cruelty to animals (human or otherwise).

is what i wrote my other post.

griffin
Mar 2nd, 2005, 08:57 PM
I will agree with this statement somewhat. However, I find that all the campaigning has been ineffective so far. The drastic measures some of these organizations take scares the public.

That's not entirely true. Yes, some of the more extreme actions have scared people, or (more importantly) alienated them. But on the whole anti-fur activism DID have an affect. Fur sales took a serious beating for awhile, and it took a major pr campaign (part of which was aimed at casting all anti-fur activists as paint-throwing vandals, btw) by the fur industry to halt the slide. Pick an issue, grass-roots organizing does make a difference. Speaking up makes a difference.



Surely you can think of MANY occasions where someone did something that, while perfectly legal, you found repugnant. Hell, I'm sure we could find instances where someone on this board said something that was perfectly "legal" and allowable according to the rules, but you felt perfectly comfortable telling them they were wrong.

True. However I think this is like comparing apples to oranges.

No, the board bit is just using an example of what I said in the first place: something not being illegal rarely if ever keeps people from commenting on it if they feel strongly about the issue at hand.


For you to imply that I am somehow pretentious when discussing this issue is an insult. I have never bit my tounge on controversial issues even when my ideology was not popular. I have no need or desire to agree that skinning animals is humane. I am a bit suprised at your candor griff, because I am not use to you making assumptions.

Fair enough, my point was badly expressed (although I'm not sure you're going to like it any better if I can manage to be more clear). It's not that I think you're hiding your true opinion, just that I'd have an easier time respecting someone who took a stand one way or the other as opposed to saying it's not your/our place to express an opinion or express disapproval; to take part in public discourse on the subject. The fact is, no, you don't bite your tongue on controvertial issues, which is why I'm surprised (if not a little confused) as to why you think people should bite their tongues on this one.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:18 PM
So are you implying that I'm some type of animal?
.

We're all some type of animal :p

Sam L
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:20 PM
So are you implying that I'm some type of animal?

Do you know anything about evolution? Because if you do, you wouldn't be asking that question.

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:20 PM
... and i think we live in a civilisation that has evolved enough in the aspt years to stop such crimes...

We'll never evolve in such a way as to stop "such crimes".

Sam L
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:21 PM
Crazy! We think alike. :eek:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:24 PM
Crazy! We think alike. :eek:
Just on basic matters of science ;)

Sam L
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:24 PM
Just on basic matters of science ;)
:haha:

¤CharlDa¤
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:25 PM
Well as I said, i jsut hope such crimes really end one day, though I'm sure they will be replaced by sthing that is as bas, or even worst.....Wil lwe ever stop that violence cycle? *dramatic pause* ;)

Denise4925
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:30 PM
Okay, I'm getting ready to watch it. :scared:

Denise4925
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:39 PM
Okay, I couldn't watch the whole thing. That's just sad. :sad:

Crazy Canuck
Mar 2nd, 2005, 10:45 PM
Well as I said, i jsut hope such crimes really end one day, though I'm sure they will be replaced by sthing that is as bas, or even worst.....Wil lwe ever stop that violence cycle? *dramatic pause* ;)

No, it's human nature.

Sam L
Mar 2nd, 2005, 11:16 PM
Fair enough, my point was badly expressed (although I'm not sure you're going to like it any better if I can manage to be more clear). It's not that I think you're hiding your true opinion, just that I'd have an easier time respecting someone who took a stand one way or the other as opposed to saying it's not your/our place to express an opinion or express disapproval; to take part in public discourse on the subject. The fact is, no, you don't bite your tongue on controvertial issues, which is why I'm surprised (if not a little confused) as to why you think people should bite their tongues on this one.

griffin, it's the route to take if you don't care. All you have to say is, I don't lik it, but if they want to do it, let them do it, it's none of my business.

Imagine if the North let South secede and left them alone because well "one's freedoms should be respected", shouldn't they? And besides, they weren't breaking any laws were they?

decemberlove
Mar 3rd, 2005, 03:44 AM
hbo had a documentary a VERY long time ago about animal cruelty in parts of asia. and how they throw cats in boiling water and skin them alive. they showed a shot of a dog SKINNED, alive and breathing. you can barely tell it was a dog. then they had footage of a girl and her father going in the back of a restaurant and picking out the dog they wanted to eat. disgusting.

i hated asians for a long time. i know its off topic but the video reminded me of that doc.

anyway, i would never buy fur for myself. though i do wear leather, and i feel leather is just as bad...

Sam L
Mar 3rd, 2005, 03:51 AM
hbo had a documentary a VERY long time ago about animal cruelty in parts of asia. and how they throw cats in boiling water and skin them alive. they showed a shot of a dog SKINNED, alive and breathing. you can barely tell it was a dog. then they had footage of a girl and her father going in the back of a restaurant and picking out the dog they wanted to eat. disgusting.

i hated asians for a long time. i know its off topic but the video reminded me of that doc.

anyway, i would never buy fur for myself. though i do wear leather, and i feel leather is just as bad...
Most leather comes from cows right? Well as long as people are still eating beef, there will be plenty of left over hides for leather. I can actually understand that.

Some aspects of Asian culture is very disgusting actually. The stuff that they eat, the medicines they use, etc...

I suppose it's just as bad as fox hunting in England? There's probably aspects of it in every culture.

decemberlove
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:00 AM
Most leather comes from cows right? Well as long as people are still eating beef, there will be plenty of left over hides for leather. I can actually understand that.

Some aspects of Asian culture is very disgusting actually. The stuff that they eat, the medicines they use, etc...

I suppose it's just as bad as fox hunting in England? There's probably aspects of it in every culture.

i know, but i still feel bad for the cows. especially the way most cows are treated before they are slaughtered. its terrible and unnecessary. everything is about business and the bottomline, but at some point we have to step back and look at what's really important. i RARELY eat meat. i can count on my two hands how many times i've had a meal with meat in it in a year. teh chemicals they inject into cows and the conditions under which they are placed before death... it just doesnt seem very healthy to me at all.

i'm trying to cut back on the dairy, too. cheese is hard for me to stop eating thou. its so yummy.

im totally against any type of hunting. whether it be for "tradition" :rolleyes" or cos the animal is supposedly overpopulating the area. no, its the people and the developments we are building that are chasing the wildlife out of their homes. NJ allowed bear hunting for a year cos bears were roaming into the suburbs looking for food. there's a lot of development going on in northwestern NJ and they were being kicked out. they didnt actually attack anyone, but people were scared so they allowed something like 500 black bears to be killed! thankfully, they have called off the bear hunts.

Sam L
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:05 AM
i know, but i still feel bad for the cows. especially the way most cows are treated before they are slaughtered. its terrible and unnecessary. everything is about business and the bottomline, but at some point we have to step back and look at what's really important. i RARELY eat meat. i can count on my two hands how many times i've had a meal with meat in it in a year. teh chemicals they inject into cows and the conditions under which they are placed before death... it just doesnt seem very healthy to me at all.

i'm trying to cut back on the dairy, too. cheese is hard for me to stop eating thou. its so yummy.

im totally against any type of hunting. whether it be for "tradition" :rolleyes" or cos the animal is supposedly overpopulating the area. no, its the people and the developments we are building that are chasing the wildlife out of their homes. NJ allowed bear hunting for a year cos bears were roaming into the suburbs looking for food. there's a lot of development going on in northwestern NJ and they were being kicked out. they didnt actually attack anyone, but people were scared so they allowed something like 500 black bears to be killed! thankfully, they have called off the bear hunts.
Yeah but then you need to convince people to stop eating meat. That's a long long way to go yet.

First, we need to tackle the more realistic issues like fur and hunting.

I brought up fox hunting in England to compare the Asian animal cruelty. I just wanted to clarify that that's not a really good comparison though. I mean for one, England is moving towards banning it whereas Asia will continue its ways because they don't even see anything wrong with what they do.

Yeah, good news about the bear hunts.

Mind you, I'd rather an animal be shot (like in a hunt) rather than for it to be skinned alive.

AjdeNate!
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:07 AM
I say give the hunted animals semiautmatic weapons, teach them to use them and then we'd truly have a 'sport'. :hehehe:

~CANUCK~
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:13 AM
well i got through like 3 minutes of the movie before i had to turn it off. That was awful. Did they really have to skin them alive, watching that one raccoon hang there and try and get free will the dude ripped his fur off was incredibly sad.

AjdeNate!
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:17 AM
I got about 2 mins in and I'm done. Too much for me.

brunof
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:50 AM
Sick.

And to think, I have cats, dogs, rabbits and birds all back home. I'll post more later. ;)

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 3rd, 2005, 05:13 AM
They really shld've broke the animal's neck or at least suffocated it instead of making it go through so much pain :sad:

Martian KC
Mar 3rd, 2005, 05:36 AM
Okay, why didn't he just kill it first? He had the utensils to stab it to death at least.

This was more disturbing than seeing a man get beheaded. And no that's not just the animal lover in me talking.

Martian KC
Mar 3rd, 2005, 05:42 AM
Yeah but then you need to convince people to stop eating meat. That's a long long way to go yet.

First, we need to tackle the more realistic issues like fur and hunting.

I brought up fox hunting in England to compare the Asian animal cruelty. I just wanted to clarify that that's not a really good comparison though. I mean for one, England is moving towards banning it whereas Asia will continue its ways because they don't even see anything wrong with what they do.

Yeah, good news about the bear hunts.

Mind you, I'd rather an animal be shot (like in a hunt) rather than for it to be skinned alive.

There is some progress in Asia, at least. Organizations like AAF are doing there share to help educate the masses.

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 3rd, 2005, 05:44 AM
Okay, why didn't he just kill it first? He had the utensils to stab it to death at least.

This was more disturbing than seeing a man get beheaded. And no that's not just the animal lover in me talking.

I think they refuse to stab the animal cuz they do not want to damage the furcoat:(
tt's y i think they shld've broken the animal's neck before doing it..:sad:

pla
Mar 3rd, 2005, 06:47 AM
Yeah but then you need to convince people to stop eating meat. That's a long long way to go yet.

Not necessarily. One can feed himself without making other creatures suffer. I mean, in the European laws it's pretty well defined- animals must be provided with enough space and care to feel good, otherwise you risk prison. Animals should also be put to death with the less hurting means possible. It is also forbiden to use animals for cosmetics tests.

I remember a case, it was in N. France I think, where some employees in a butchery were arrested and sued because they were cruel to the cows.

First, we need to tackle the more realistic issues like fur and hunting.

Correct! I can't stand hunters, it's beyond me. I would be so happy if hunting for pleasure is forbiden at least in Europe.

I brought up fox hunting in England to compare the Asian animal cruelty. I just wanted to clarify that that's not a really good comparison though. I mean for one, England is moving towards banning it whereas Asia will continue its ways because they don't even see anything wrong with what they do.

Well, you know that in many European countries wolfs are still hunted, in my country- for my biggest horror, the government offers money for every wolf killed :fiery: . In France people can't stand the idea that wolfs are returning to where they belong and they are ready to kill them just because they fear them and because they don't want to make the effort to protect their studs.

So my point here is that protecting the animals and the whole nature is a matter of education and not continent. No one can think he is doing something wrong if he was educated that animals don't suffer, that animals have exactly the same right to live as we do and so on and so on.

pla
Mar 3rd, 2005, 06:50 AM
Oh and btw, I didn't even take a look at the video. I couldn't stand the pictures shown on a French TV of the puppies victims of the cruel contraband destined to the pets shops in W. Europe- this video will only make me feel sicker than I already do.

pav
Mar 3rd, 2005, 06:55 AM
I have skinned and sold a hell of a lot of possums(many thousands) and have never even thought of skinning one alive, I think these vids are just cruel idiots trying to shock people, those really involved in the fur trade wouldn't have the time to be wrestling with live animals even if they were cruel enough to do it! most people catching animals commercially have a respect for them. Skinning a Brush tailed possum while still warm will cause half the fur to fall out.don't know about a racoon.

We have to knock off a lot of animals here, but always as quick and kind as possible, I have slowly lost interest in pig and deer hunting after doing it for extra money for a few years, I worked for a thing called a pest destruction board for a couple of years, and shooting and poisoning animals every day and some nights soon takes any fun out of it,specially when the old bugger I worked with would often accidently spray You with shotgun pellets(I've still got some in Me)the old shit's dead now. anyway I think any bastard who gets pleasure out of an animals suffering has got a serious mental disorder

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Mar 3rd, 2005, 07:42 AM
u skin possums?!:eek: :(

I have skinned and sold a hell of a lot of possums(many thousands) and have never even thought of skinning one alive, I think these vids are just cruel idiots trying to shock people, those really involved in the fur trade wouldn't have the time to be wrestling with live animals even if they were cruel enough to do it! most people catching animals commercially have a respect for them. Skinning a Brush tailed possum while still warm will cause half the fur to fall out.don't know about a racoon.

We have to knock off a lot of animals here, but always as quick and kind as possible, I have slowly lost interest in pig and deer hunting after doing it for extra money for a few years, I worked for a thing called a pest destruction board for a couple of years, and shooting and poisoning animals every day and some nights soon takes any fun out of it,specially when the old bugger I worked with would often accidently spray You with shotgun pellets(I've still got some in Me)the old shit's dead now. anyway I think any bastard who gets pleasure out of an animals suffering has got a serious mental disorder

Josh B.
Mar 3rd, 2005, 03:57 PM
When i saw the furless racoon split in half still alive, that really annoyed me,

They good atleast have put it out of its misery, or better still, leave em alone!
If they needed to do it o bad, they could have shot them, its quick!
but still those people are heartless nobs!

Brαm
Mar 3rd, 2005, 04:14 PM
My stomach :hysteric: :sad: :fiery:
I sent this link in a forward mail btw.

harloo
Mar 3rd, 2005, 05:29 PM
Do you know anything about evolution? Because if you do, you wouldn't be asking that question.

I believe in Creationism.

harloo
Mar 3rd, 2005, 06:04 PM
Fair enough, my point was badly expressed (although I'm not sure you're going to like it any better if I can manage to be more clear). It's not that I think you're hiding your true opinion, just that I'd have an easier time respecting someone who took a stand one way or the other as opposed to saying it's not your/our place to express an opinion or express disapproval; to take part in public discourse on the subject. The fact is, no, you don't bite your tongue on controvertial issues, which is why I'm surprised (if not a little confused) as to why you think people should bite their tongues on this one.

So you would be satisfied if I stated I hate animals and would like to see them skinned and killed, or if I was a militant animal rights activist? Is that your defenition of standing one way or the other?

alexusjonesfan
Mar 3rd, 2005, 06:12 PM
Most leather comes from cows right? Well as long as people are still eating beef, there will be plenty of left over hides for leather. I can actually understand that.

Some aspects of Asian culture is very disgusting actually. The stuff that they eat, the medicines they use, etc...



Wow, that's staggeringly close minded. Explain please what you find so disgusting?

griffin
Mar 3rd, 2005, 07:04 PM
So you would be satisfied if I stated I hate animals and would like to see them skinned and killed, or if I was a militant animal rights activist? Is that your defenition of standing one way or the other?

Wow, are you being deliberately dense or are you just feeling defensive?

Your first response:
I think others should be able to be free to wear what they want without being criticized. Basically, you add later, because it's legal.

What I've said, or tried to, in several ways, is that while I certainly don't support throwing paint or blood on them in public, their actions (ie. the decision to wear fur) ARE open to criticism, and that the idea that something being legal means we should all just shut up about it is nonsense.

Having the freedom of speech doesn't mean you're free from having that speech criticized.

Having the freedom to wear whatever doesn't mean you're free from people voicing disapproval.

And the whole "laissez faire" excuse from someone who - as you yourself say - has never had a problem voicing an opion or and objection is more than a little puzzling to me.

Mariangelina
Mar 3rd, 2005, 10:48 PM
In principle, I don't believe in throwing various liquids at people wearing obviously real fur. In practice, if I happened to be holding a paint can and someone walked by in a fur coat... :devil:

For me, wearing fur is very much a moral issue, not just something to be treaded around as part of someone's "personal style". By wearing it, you're condoning the often very cruel slaughter of animals which may be endangered, and if more common, are often kept on farms where their purpose in life is to have their skins removed when they get big enough. :sad: :sad: :sad: If I walked around with the shrunken heads of my enemies attached to my necklace, would anyone be so fucking laissez-faire about it? This is one issue where I'm not hesitant to judge people. They're not sadistic, just incredibly selfish and vain. Yes, it's soft and pretty. Yes, the fake stuff is also soft and pretty, and doesn't involve the killing of other creatures.

TM
Mar 4th, 2005, 08:02 AM
Don't wanna see the video...yet. but all i can hear in my head is FUCK YOOUUU!----RAACCCOOOOONN!!!

Sam L
Mar 4th, 2005, 11:19 AM
Wow, are you being deliberately dense or are you just feeling defensive?

Your first response:
Basically, you add later, because it's legal.

What I've said, or tried to, in several ways, is that while I certainly don't support throwing paint or blood on them in public, their actions (ie. the decision to wear fur) ARE open to criticism, and that the idea that something being legal means we should all just shut up about it is nonsense.

Having the freedom of speech doesn't mean you're free from having that speech criticized.

Having the freedom to wear whatever doesn't mean you're free from people voicing disapproval.

And the whole "laissez faire" excuse from someone who - as you yourself say - has never had a problem voicing an opion or and objection is more than a little puzzling to me.
I'm not going to argue with harloo because griff is doing a fine job. :lol:

Yeah all I have to add is to your example, that just because something's legal it doesn't mean we can't criticize it.

So, harloo, are you saying that we should just shut up about smoking and alcohol? If I lose some close to me to lung cancer or alcohol abuse, don't you think I have a right to talk to the community and raise it an issue and say "I think smoking and alcohol abuse are bad, we should do something about it"? I don't need to start this because there are already people doing it. So clearly, if you don't have a problem with this, then why do you with people who are speaking up about an issue that's close to their hearts? :shrug:

joie and cervantes, I can disdain any culture. It's an opinion, we've all got one.

Experimentee
Mar 4th, 2005, 02:07 PM
hbo had a documentary a VERY long time ago about animal cruelty in parts of asia. and how they throw cats in boiling water and skin them alive. they showed a shot of a dog SKINNED, alive and breathing. you can barely tell it was a dog. then they had footage of a girl and her father going in the back of a restaurant and picking out the dog they wanted to eat. disgusting.

i hated asians for a long time. i know its off topic but the video reminded me of that doc.

anyway, i would never buy fur for myself. though i do wear leather, and i feel leather is just as bad...

Its not like Asia is the only place in the world where animal cruelty happens. I hear many stories where Americans torture and kill cats, I guess I should hate all Americans too then :rolleyes:

beauty_is_pink
Mar 4th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I dont buy fur and or anything an animal was killed for, cause 1) it's fucking sick 2) I jus dont feel right.

Gerri
Mar 4th, 2005, 03:04 PM
Inflicting unnecessary pain on a living thing is just wrong full stop, there's no justification for it at all. As far as wearing fur goes, freedom of choice is bollocks.