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Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Cliff Drysdale refferred to Serena Williams as that last night during the telecast of the Williams-Mauresmo match. Which naturally got me to thinking, 'is that true?'

Amazing Elena
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:45 PM
No it's of course Elena Dementieva :yeah:

jonny84
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Possibly not the most famous female athlete in the world - but right now she is still probably the most famous female tennis player in the world.

tennislover
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:46 PM
no

thelittlestelf
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:49 PM
Hmm... I think I'd have to give that title to Michelle Kwan. However, I might be wrong.

UDiTY
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:51 PM
Go to nike.com and then answer...






(if serena doesn't come up keep, push refresh until she does):cool:

SjuTjuD
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:52 PM
I would think someone in track and field would be.

Becool
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:54 PM
Oh female.. :p

Mercredi
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:55 PM
Shaquille O'Neal is
And from when Shaquille O'Neal is a femal?
I agree Serena is the most famous femal athlete in the word, I mean even mys sisters know her!!

Jaime Bahena
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:55 PM
Whom does Cliffy list as the "least famous athlete in the world?"

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:57 PM
Go to nike.com and then answer...I must know the woman in the middle picture is.

http://nikewomen.nike.com/nikewomen/us/index.jhtml?ref=http://www.nike.com

Or I will not sleep again. Ever.

Becool
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:58 PM
And from when Shaquille O'Neal is a femal?

Yeah, I didn't read 'female' before athlete :P

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:58 PM
I would think someone in track and field would be.The very fact that you're saying 'someone in track and field' and instead of naming that person ....
Hmm... I think I'd have to give that title to Michelle Kwan. However, I might be wrong.You could be right too. Good suggestion.

foreva lindsay
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:58 PM
how about a big fat NO

Mercredi
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:03 PM
Michele Kwan?
Only Americans know her, and by the way who the hell watches figure skating?

Mercredi
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:04 PM
Ok guys, don't hate on Serena, I am not her fan but I actually admit she is the most famous femal athlete.

jmcfarla
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Is she any more famous than her sister?

Sanneriet
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:06 PM
If you really mean in the entire world, even thou I almost hate to say it, it might be Anna Kournikova. If you went to various cities in different parts of the world (not just Europe and USA) and randomly showed people photos of Kournikova and Williams, I just think more people would know Anna.

UDiTY
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:07 PM
Can't help you Volcana.

Serena is definitely the most famous female athlete in the U.S., I dunno about the rest of the world. Remember the Espy's, she's a standout star:hearts:

Hingiswinsthis
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:08 PM
I've travelled some around the world and most of them don't know what figure skating is or even Michelle Kwan.

Tennis, Track, Golf, Soccer and maybe swimming are the most popular sports WORLD-WIDE. I'd say Serena Williams is right up there. but I'd go with Kournikova :-) This girl makes headlines even without a racket. Nuff said.

thelittlestelf
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:10 PM
Michele Kwan?
Only Americans know her, and by the way who the hell watches figure skating?
Hmm... about 98042859038038690386948349056834589345390468034859 04859034805 more people than tennis.

_LuCaS_
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:12 PM
There is a forum called...Amazing Athletic Anastasia :yippee: :dance: :yippee:

clonesheep
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:13 PM
Annika Sorenstam of golf is almost as famous as Serena, I believe. And if *they* keep hyping about Sharapova, she will eventually become as famous as Serena, at least among casual fans.

BTW, if retired atheletes count, I'd say Steffi Graf and Martina Navratilova are at least as famous as Serena, if not more so. But the younger generation would probably not know SG and MN too well even though they have heard about the names.

Kart
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:15 PM
I think Venus is probably more well known than Serena.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:16 PM
Serena Williams, Venus Williams and Anna Kournikova!!!!!

However, I do think Serena may slightly edge it!!!!!

416_Man
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:25 PM
Definitately Serena- but it's sad to say because non-tennis watchers really notice her because she's one of the only African Americans on tour. Same way how I notice Eminem or Tiger Woods before a lot of other people in thier "sports".

LeRoy.
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Not everything that Cliff says is gospel. Actually nothing is :tape:

RenaSlam.
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Serena. Most recognizable athlete right now.

T-T
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:32 PM
I don't see who else it could be. Although 'infamous' seems more appropriate.

Becool
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:33 PM
Annika Sorenstam of golf is almost as famous as Serena, I believe.
U're so wrong :tape:

Golf is such an elite and bornig sport.. Tennis used to be an elite sport.. now it's getting so popular...

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:39 PM
Michele Kwan?
Only Americans know her, and by the way who the hell watches figure skating?Gets higher TV ratings than any other sport. I have no idea why. More a beauty contest than a sport, if you ask me. But a LOT of people watch it, and a lot of people see it live.

CJW1984
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:40 PM
If you count famous as in how many people on the street would recoignise her id say Serena but there might be an Asian sports star who is recoignised by billions over there but not in the US/Europe

Hayato
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:44 PM
It depends on where you come from.

i.e Fabiola Zuluaga is more famous in Colombia than Serena is. Fabiola has hit up with two Colombian Presidents, and is a huge celebrity there.

T-T
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:47 PM
We're talking all six 1/2 billion citizens of the world here.

vertigo
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:13 PM
Michele Kwan!? Nope.
Right now, I'd go for Serena. She's known worldwide. And I can't think of anyone to beat her.

volta
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:17 PM
at least here in this forum Rena and Vee are the most famous. we see almost everytype off posts about this girls and when the most impressive is that people that aren´t even their fans are always making posts about them.

THATS THE WILLIAMS POWER

1jackson2001
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Mia Hamm might give Serena a run for her money.

shap_half
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:47 PM
in this forum everyone knows most tennis players. you wouldn't say venus or serena are more popular than kim clijsters or jelena dokic. if you're in this forum, i'd guess you know all of three.

serena is really popular, but what i noticed after my visit to my home country of the philippines a few weeks ago is that serena isn't really that well known there. i'm not sure if that proves to be relevant, but my family members (some of whom play tennis) don't know serena. (*I actually saw a JHH ad at the Adidas shop at one of the wealthiest malls in the philippines...exciting but they wouldn't sell me the poster which was the size of a wall).

I'd say that Michelle Kwan is among the most popular. Michelle doesn't do a lot of things outside skating (whereas people like Sharapova, Venus, Serena, and Kournikova are helped by advertising and contracts) but she is still sooo well known.

tennisjunky
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:49 PM
a lot of people are not too thrilled about it, but yeah she's the most famous female athlete. if by chance she actually is not, then she is certainly amongst the most famous.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:55 PM
I must know the woman in the middle picture is.

http://nikewomen.nike.com/nikewomen/us/index.jhtml?ref=http://www.nike.com

Or I will not sleep again. Ever.
Serena is the only one with a collection, so I guess she is the most famous female athlete in the world. :)

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:57 PM
If you really mean in the entire world, even thou I almost hate to say it, it might be Anna Kournikova. If you went to various cities in different parts of the world (not just Europe and USA) and randomly showed people photos of Kournikova and Williams, I just think more people would know Anna.
He said athlete.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Definitately Serena- but it's sad to say because non-tennis watchers really notice her because she's one of the only African Americans on tour. Same way how I notice Eminem or Tiger Woods before a lot of other people in thier "sports".
:haha: :haha: :haha:

volta
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Serena is the only one with a collection, so I guess she is the most famous female athlete in the world. :)
WOW now this is what i call POWA.
GO RENA

CJW1984
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:00 PM
Mia Hamm might give Serena a run for her money.

Again thats one for the U.S.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:03 PM
Mia Hamm might give Serena a run for her money.
Who is Mia Hamm?? :confused:

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:09 PM
Again thats one for the U.S.
I don't think so. I mean she was/is the best female soccer player in the world and considering soccer is so much more liked outside the US then in. I would suspect she's pretty popular around the world. I don't know if she is the *most* popular or anything.

Rocketta
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:10 PM
Who is Mia Hamm?? :confused:
Soccer player, let the US to several world championships and olympic Golds. Graduated from (unfortunately) University of North Carolina @ Chapel Hill. Married to Omar Garciaparra. :)

Orion
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:10 PM
He said athlete.

In reference to Kournikova, yes. Kournikova was first and foremost a tennis player. Later, she got distracted by side projects (sounds familiar...) but regardless of that, she only got those opportunites because of tennis. If not, she would be another (hot) Russian peasant.

CJW1984
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:12 PM
Womens soccer though is more popular in the US than in most of Europe

I think womens games in the US get more fans than the MLS games?

Sam L
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:14 PM
He said athlete.
:haha:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:19 PM
Michelle who? I keep seeing references to this Michelle chick in NT and assuming she is some porn actress or something. No one cares about figure skating outside the US.

I think that Serena may well have passed Anna Kournikova as the most famous current female athlete ... assuming Anna is even "current". Martina Nav, who is still current, is also very famous worldwide. Masha Sharapova will catch up with them if she can win more slams but (much as I like Masha) that's a big "if" IMHO.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:26 PM
Definitately Serena- but it's sad to say because non-tennis watchers really notice her because she's one of the only African Americans on tour. Stop you're killing me :haha: How do non-tennis watchers know how many African Americans are on the tour?

Same way how I notice Eminem or Tiger Woods before a lot of other people in thier "sports".Since when is Eminem an African American and since when does he play a sport?:haha:

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 25th, 2005, 11:37 PM
^I think it was meant to be an analogy. Eminem is unusual among rappers because he is white in a way that is analogous to Tiger Woods being unusual among golfers because he is black. The poster put the word "sports" in scare quotes.

Martian Melissa
Jan 26th, 2005, 12:22 AM
Omg that's BULLSHIT!

It's really funny to see that most of the americans agree with this...but HELLO....there are alot of other countries and Serena wouldn't even be in the top 10. I'm sure that all the tennisfans know Serena but there are millions of people who don't like tennis. You think they will know Serena?I don't think so....but they would have heard about Monica Seles, Steffi Graf and Anna Kournikova

Other people that would probably make the top 10 are: Michelle Kwan, Marion Jones, Martina Navratilova, cathy freeman.....but that's just my thought about it ;)

Rena_Hunk
Jan 26th, 2005, 12:24 AM
i think serena is the most famous female athlete in the world!!!

Becool
Jan 26th, 2005, 02:21 AM
Who's Michelle Kwan?
How's she popular in the world?
Serena Williams, and not only her, but tennis players in general are more popular than ice skaters...

dreamgoddess099
Jan 26th, 2005, 02:34 AM
^I think it was meant to be an analogy. Eminem is unusual among rappers because he is white in a way that is analogous to Tiger Woods being unusual among golfers because he is black. The poster put the word "sports" in scare quotes.
That still doesn't explain how Serena is known by non-tennis watchers if she supposedly is only known for her tennis.

RVD
Jan 26th, 2005, 02:52 AM
A no-brainer!
OF COURSE SHE IS! :worship: :cool:

T-T
Jan 26th, 2005, 02:54 AM
Since I myself never heard of any Kwann or Hamm, being fairly well informed, I can assure you it's neither of them.

Someone said Navratilova... hmmm. Could be slightly more famous. Donno.

cartmancop
Jan 26th, 2005, 03:02 AM
I would say that Yes, she is the most famous athlete in the world. I think 3+ years ago it would have been Kournikova but she has dropped in the fame category a bit since she stopped playing and began doing less endorsement related stuff, whereas Serena has endorsements in numerous categories and I would say that she is probably a player whose picture is easily identified by practically anyone in the world. I mean there are so many beautiful blonde Russians, etc. that even tennis fans get them confused.

wipeout
Jan 26th, 2005, 03:12 AM
I think you'd have to go with someone who has been famous a long time and made the news headlines over and over so that people of different generations know who she is.

Martina N and Steffi would be difficult to beat for this with both being at the top for so long and both having distinctive names. People who have never paid attention to tennis in any way are likely to know who they are. I'm not convinced that is the case for Serena outside of the USA.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 26th, 2005, 06:06 AM
In the US??? Definitely. In the world??? Maybe.

Prizeidiot
Jan 26th, 2005, 07:12 AM
I'd say Kournikova..... by the way, is Lauren Jackson big in other countries... or just Australia? I think she might be in the USA, but I dont know.

Rocketta
Jan 26th, 2005, 03:46 PM
I'd say Kournikova..... by the way, is Lauren Jackson big in other countries... or just Australia? I think she might be in the USA, but I dont know.
I've never heard of her. :)

kwanfan
Jan 26th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Who's Michelle Kwan?
How's she popular in the world?
Serena Williams, and not only her, but tennis players in general are more popular than ice skaters...
Michelle Kwan is a 9-time US Nationals Champion which ties the all time record, 5 time world champion which is tied for second all time, Olympic silver and bronze medalist, and holds the record for most 6.0s in competition in the history of the sport. She is arguably the greatest female figure skater ever.

Cam'ron Giles
Jan 26th, 2005, 04:08 PM
in this forum everyone knows most tennis players. you wouldn't say venus or serena are more popular than kim clijsters or jelena dokic. if you're in this forum, i'd guess you know all of three.

serena is really popular, but what i noticed after my visit to my home country of the philippines a few weeks ago is that serena isn't really that well known there. i'm not sure if that proves to be relevant, but my family members (some of whom play tennis) don't know serena. (*I actually saw a JHH ad at the Adidas shop at one of the wealthiest malls in the philippines...exciting but they wouldn't sell me the poster which was the size of a wall).

I'd say that Michelle Kwan is among the most popular. Michelle doesn't do a lot of things outside skating (whereas people like Sharapova, Venus, Serena, and Kournikova are helped by advertising and contracts) but she is still sooo well known.
You have family members who play tennis but dont know Serena? :retard:

DA FOREHAND
Jan 26th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Anna K is no longer an athlete, she's a wife.


Serena is easily the most famous.

salima
Jan 26th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Where I live serena williams could walk down the streat and nobody would think she was an athlete.Where I live serena williams could walk down the streat and nobody would think she was an athlete. got it? (What they would think she was is another game)
Still she could be the most famous female athlete in the world.
Michelle Kwan or Mia Hamm, nowhere near it.
Maybe Marion Jones get close to the top here. behind the american stars ther e is huge advertising.
In my little corner of the world the most famous is Liv Grete Poiree, and she is, and hopefully will stay forever unknown in USA.

;)

Becool
Jan 26th, 2005, 04:58 PM
Mia Hamm is only known in US I think

Volcana
Jan 26th, 2005, 05:20 PM
Omg that's BULLSHIT!

It's really funny to see that most of the americans agree with this...but HELLO....there are alot of other countries and Serena wouldn't even be in the top 10.Three things.
We have far and away the biggest hype machine.
We have a much higher participation of women in sports than most countries.
Female athletes from other countries aren't well known here either.

Being the 'most famous female athlete in the world' doesn't mean the whole world has to know you. More of them have to know you than other female athletes, that's all.they would have heard about Monica Seles, Steffi Graf and Anna Kournikova.Steffi Graf and Anna Kournikova are retired. Now Monica Seles, that's a good question. Serena benefits from here period of dominance being at a times of much greater media saturation, AND the prevelance of the internet. But Monica is REALLY well-known.Other people that would probably make the top 10 are: Michelle Kwan, Marion Jones, Martina Navratilova, cathy freemanIsn't Cathy Freeman retired?

1jackson2001][/b]Mia Hamm might give Serena a run for her money.Mia retired this year. The last match for that particular collection of the US women was a big deal in the women's soccer world.

Denise4925
Jan 26th, 2005, 06:33 PM
You have family members who play tennis but dont know Serena? :retard:
:lol: :lol:

T-T
Jan 26th, 2005, 09:44 PM
I was puzzled by the question and Googled the names of some candidates. This is what turned up in hit numbers:

Monica Seles: 136,000
Martina Navratilova: 163,000
Jennifer Capriati: 182,000
Anastasia Myskina: 184,000
Kim Clijsters: 200,000
Amélie Mauresmo: 206,000
Justine Henin: 226,000
Michelle Kwan: 246,000
Steffi Graf: 265,000
Cathy Freeman: 359,000
Maria Sharapova: 373,000
Mia Hamm: 379,000
Lindsay Davenport: 517,000
Serena Williams: 935,000
Venus Williams: 1,010,000
Anna Kournikova: 1,220,000
Marion Jones: 2,450,000


Looks like Marion is the most notorious. But she's retired, and so is Kournikova. That leaves Venus Williams as the most famous female athlete.

thelittlestelf
Jan 26th, 2005, 09:51 PM
I was puzzled by the question and Googled the names of some candidates. This is what turned up in hit numbers:

Monica Seles: 136,000
Martina Navratilova: 163,000
Jennifer Capriati: 182,000
Anastasia Myskina: 184,000
Kim Clijsters: 200,000
Amélie Mauresmo: 206,000
Justine Henin: 226,000
Michelle Kwan: 246,000
Steffi Graf: 265,000
Cathy Freeman: 359,000
Maria Sharapova: 373,000
Lindsay Davenport: 517,000
Serena Williams: 935,000
Venus Williams: 1,010,000
Anna Kournikova: 1,220,000
Marion Jones: 2,450,000


Looks like Marion is the most notorious. But she's retired, and so is Kournikova. That leaves Venus Williams as the most famous female athlete.
Marion Jones retired?!!?!

Where have I been :tape:

T-T
Jan 26th, 2005, 09:55 PM
Should have checked - indeed she isn't retired. My bad. Sorry Venus!

dreamgoddess099
Jan 26th, 2005, 10:26 PM
I was puzzled by the question and Googled the names of some candidates. This is what turned up in hit numbers:

Monica Seles: 136,000
Martina Navratilova: 163,000
Jennifer Capriati: 182,000
Anastasia Myskina: 184,000
Kim Clijsters: 200,000
Amélie Mauresmo: 206,000
Justine Henin: 226,000
Michelle Kwan: 246,000
Steffi Graf: 265,000
Cathy Freeman: 359,000
Maria Sharapova: 373,000
Mia Hamm: 379,000
Lindsay Davenport: 517,000
Serena Williams: 935,000
Venus Williams: 1,010,000
Anna Kournikova: 1,220,000
Marion Jones: 2,450,000


Looks like Marion is the most notorious. But she's retired, and so is Kournikova. That leaves Venus Williams as the most famous female athlete.
That just measures how many times your name is mentioned on the net, not how recognizable in general you are. That's like counting how many times a tennis player's name is mentioned on WTAworld and assuming the whole world knows them. For instance, Sue bird's name registers 1,930,000 times. That's more than Kournikova and Maria put together. And Lisa leslie's name gets 1,580,000. Does that mean that US basketball is a more popular sport globally than tennis? No, it just means that those players names are mentioned a lot in basketball.

T-T
Jan 26th, 2005, 10:32 PM
You're right. The numbers get skewed because the US has the greatest online density, giving American sports and athletes bigger hit numbers.

Still, it's always interesting to see how many times people are mentioned on the www.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 26th, 2005, 10:34 PM
The internet underrates people who are not super current but well known to the older generations, so the above is not conclusive against Martina Navratilova, who is mainly famous for her pre-internet exploits. It may have other biases as well such as a lot of hits when someone achieves news notoriety and is the subject of many little bulletins, rather than having genuine household familiarity. Still, it's interesting that Vee still comes up with more hits than Ree and that Marion Jones does better still. Maybe "Marion Jones" is the correct answer. Ree has to be a contender, though.

Sanneriet
Jan 26th, 2005, 10:59 PM
Well, if we are limiting the discussion to the most famous currently active athlete then I would go with Serena as well. But, overall I think Graf or Kournikova are more generally known outside of Europe and the USA. Kournikova did a couple of exos in South Africa a few years ago as well as in Brazil. I remember there being about 20 news features at the time about it. It was BIG news in my neck of the woods.

Mercredi
Feb 1st, 2005, 01:41 PM
Steffi Graf was at here prime the most recognisable women athlete on earth, I think Seren took that now.

SJW
Feb 1st, 2005, 02:11 PM
I've travelled some around the world and most of them don't know what figure skating is or even Michelle Kwan.

thank you, a lot of posters don't realise that US and World AREN'T interchangable. :rolleyes: Michelle Kwan isn't that big in UK and i would think the same is true in most of the world that ISN'T the US

i would go with Kournikova...but not for sporting purposes. :) for sporting purposes...yeah then Serena would take it.

Rena_Hunk
Feb 1st, 2005, 06:54 PM
Serena is the most famous ATHLETE in the world

beauty_is_pink
Feb 1st, 2005, 06:55 PM
from tennis?
I thought Kournikova would be :shrug:

Rena_Hunk
Feb 1st, 2005, 07:07 PM
SERENA is the most FAMOUS ATHLETE in the world!!!

lala
Feb 1st, 2005, 08:05 PM
Well, I'm from Ethiopia and I can tell you when ever I go back home, I'm astonished by the amount of people that know the sisters (more Venus really, people generally call Serena her "little sister", and I can also tell you Ethiopia is not one of the tennis enthusiastic nations and we have many many famous female distance runners.....

rhz
Feb 1st, 2005, 08:19 PM
Anna K. is still the most popular woman's athlete in the world. Serena may come as a close second, but people are still confused between her and her sister.

Michelle Kwan?? You got to be kidding me! how many people do actually like figure skating???

Julia1968
Feb 1st, 2005, 08:20 PM
Mia Hamm might give Serena a run for her money.

You make an excellent point. Soccer is a much more popular sport than tennis in this country and world wide. I would say that as much as I see Maria Sharapova's name in magazines, television ticker-tapes and sports reviews, she would run a close second.

Jaime Bahena
Feb 2nd, 2005, 01:44 PM
Possibly not the most famous female athlete in the world - but right now she is still probably the most famous female tennis player in the world.
It sucks to be Venus Williams. In the late 1990's, everybody touted you as the next great thing to happen to women's tennis, and lo and behold, your little sister takes away your spotlight.

Geisha
Feb 2nd, 2005, 01:48 PM
Is she any more famous than her sister?

Yeah. In my school, I ask people who her sister is, and they say 'Vanessa.'

LOL! Anyways, I think the WILLIAMS SISTERS are the famous athletes combined in the world.

Orion
Feb 2nd, 2005, 03:16 PM
thank you, a lot of posters don't realise that US and World AREN'T interchangable. :rolleyes: Michelle Kwan isn't that big in UK and i would think the same is true in most of the world that ISN'T the US

Probably because figure skating isn't a major sport in the UK. In China, figure skating is huge, and Michelle Kwan is actually well known in China and Japan because of her Asian descent. Russians know all about Michelle Kwan because she had the bad habit of stealing their stars thunder. That said, noone in Africa has even heard of her, and not many South Americans either. But a ton of Asian countries, plus the USA, have heard of Michelle Kwan. Not to mention Eastern Europe.

AkademiQ
Feb 2nd, 2005, 05:40 PM
It sucks to be Venus Williams. In the late 1990's, everybody touted you as the next great thing to happen to women's tennis, and lo and behold, your little sister takes away your spotlight.

Venus does not seem to be complaining as much as you are protesting
:confused: