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Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 04:31 AM
There's only stats from the WIlliams-Mauresmo match really jump out at me are Serena's serving stats.

Williams fastest serve speed 193 km/h = 119 mph
Williams avg 1st serve speed 162 km/h = 100.66 mph
Williams avg 2nd serve speed 130 km/h = _80.77 mph

Williams win% on 1st serve 67%
Williams win% on 2nd serve 86%

She didn't serve nearly as hard as Petrova in her last match, even though she's capable of it. Her average first AND second serve speeds were slower than Amelie's in this match. But even in the three-set Petrova match, Serena won more points by double digits.

I think, finally, at long last, Serena has finally figured out the truth. She can just get into the point, and beat players by rallying. She doesn't have to blow them off the court. She's BETTER off the ground than almost anyone on tour. If her legs are right, I'd say ANYONE. She doesn't swing a smooth as Lindsay (who does), but she's so much faster, so she's usually in better position to hit. I'd seen inklings that Serena has gotten the hang of this. But the last two matches were convincing.

Amelie failed to make this match competitive. But Serena had 23 winners to only 15 UEs. I Loved her, in a perverse sort of way, but 'Wild Thing' is dead.

Maybe, just maybe, Serena has finally figured out she doesn't HAVE to overpower the opponents. She's more skiiled than they are. The only shot she lacks is a forehand slice.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 25th, 2005, 04:34 AM
I agree. Serena does possess a lot of power. But today she stayed calm..and only went for winners when it was a sure thing.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 04:39 AM
I guess I liked it too, but I like to see more heat on her serves, but she brought the heat when she needed it.

tennnisfannn
Jan 25th, 2005, 04:55 AM
I think both players cam into the match determined not to use up so much energy, they were rather subdued in the entire match. It was scorching hot on centre court and probably expectd a much longer match.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:02 AM
I think both players cam into the match determined not to use up so much energy, they were rather subdued in the entire match. It was scorching hot on centre court and probably expectd a much longer match.
Yeah, I was really surprised that the commentators weren't saying anything about Serena's more subdued serves. It was nagging the hell out of me, because at first I thought she had entered the match in one of her lackluster moods.

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:07 AM
Yeah, I was really surprised that the commentators weren't saying anything about Serena's more subdued serves. It was nagging the hell out of me, because at first I thought she had entered the match in one of her lackluster moods.IN the middle of the second set they noted it. In fact, Cleff Drysedale pointed out that Serena had said after her last match that she needed to get her first serve percentage way up.

mishar
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:07 AM
She also knows that the return is Amelie's weakest shot, even when she's not brain-dead like today, and so Serena smartly decided she could take something off her first serve. She'll probably have to serve with more heat against great returners like Sharapova and Davenport.

"Topaz"
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:14 AM
...Maybe, just maybe, Serena has finally figured out she doesn't HAVE to overpower the opponents.Huh! It took you an awful of a long time to notice it. Look at my signature down below and check what she said back in 2002.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:17 AM
IN the middle of the second set they noted it. In fact, Cleff Drysedale pointed out that Serena had said after her last match that she needed to get her first serve percentage way up.
I heard that, but they never mentioned (at least I don't remember) anything about how slow her serves were or how little leg she was putting into them. Even when she served that 70mph second serve that Amelie miss hit, they never said anything about it being so slow.

bobcat
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:23 AM
It's actually similar to how Serena was playing during the clay court season two years ago when she won the FO. Her angles were better back then but her touch shots (lob, drop shot, slice) seem to better now, imo.

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:42 AM
I heard that, but they never mentioned (at least I don't remember) anything about how slow her serves were or how little leg she was putting into them. Even when she served that 70mph second serve that Amelie miss hit, they never said anything about it being so slow.I know they mentioned Amelie whiffing on a 75 mph seond serve. And it seems to me, Serena was using a good deal of knee bend in her serve. She simply wasn't trying to hit hard. Her fastest was 119 mph, which is pretty smokin'.

Maybe you were at the 'fridge when they discussed it?:)

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:46 AM
I know they mentioned Amelie whiffing on a 75 mph seond serve. And it seems to me, Serena was using a good deal of knee bend in her serve. She simply wasn't trying to hit hard. Her fastest was 119 mph, which is pretty smokin'.

Maybe you were at the 'fridge when they discussed it?:)
Well, yeah that's what I'm talking about. They said Amelie choked on that 75mph serve, but that was about it. She was using knee bends, but she wasn't jumping into the serve like she usually does. I said earlier, she came with the heat when she had to, e.g. 119mph serve, but other than that, she was pretty much taking it really easy, especially in the first set.

LDVTennis
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:58 AM
Maybe, just maybe, Serena has finally figured out she doesn't HAVE to overpower the opponents. She's more skiiled than they are. The only shot she lacks is a forehand slice.

The only shot? Are you kidding me?

Serving aside, the only shots I've seen Serena hit with any proficiency are the backhand drive (top or flat) and the forehand drive (mainly flat). That's it.

She may attempt other shots from time to time - topspin forehand, drop shots, slices, lobs, chips, half-volleys, volleys. But, she has yet to show that she's mastered the technique for any of these shots. Even worse, she attempts them without any idea of their strategic value.

You make her sound like she is Roger Federer. When is the last time Serena ran around her backhand to hit a dtl forehand from the backhand corner? Doesn't have that shot either? Huh?

oddkayla
Jan 25th, 2005, 06:05 AM
Maybe Serena has not had to run around her forehand. Most of the time, people run around their backhand because their backhands are generally not their strongest shots. Mrs Agassi used to run around her backhand, because it never got the job done as the legendary forehand!

mboyle
Jan 25th, 2005, 06:38 AM
Serena can do everything well, everything. That is why she is still (IMHO) the best player out there. Her problem is that she doesn't use all her variety consistently. She still thinks of herself as a power player when things get tight. Today she had no pressure on her, so she stayed calm, hit side to side, and waited to hit the winner. Will she do that against Sharapova, if Sharpie stays with her? I don't think so.

Rollo
Jan 25th, 2005, 07:00 AM
I think the serve will be key in the Williams-Sharapova match. If one or the other serves poorly or loolygags a second serve they risk having it shoved down their throats.

It may all boil down to what Vic Braden used to say, "You're only as good as your second serve."


I hope it goes to 13-11 in the third. The women really need a quality match Down Under.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 07:06 AM
Serena can do everything well, everything. That is why she is still (IMHO) the best player out there. Her problem is that she doesn't use all her variety consistently. She still thinks of herself as a power player when things get tight. Today she had no pressure on her, so she stayed calm, hit side to side, and waited to hit the winner. Will she do that against Sharapova, if Sharpie stays with her? I don't think so.
She needs to use the short angles with Maria and the drop shots. Otherwise if she tries to trade baseline shots with Maria, it will be a repeat of Wimby. Whatever she did at the YEC was working against Maria until she got injured.

Rollo
Jan 25th, 2005, 07:10 AM
The slower surface should be a good test as far as Volcana's ground stroke theory is concerned. The slower the surface the harder it is for Serena-but of course that's true of Maria too! The rallies will be longer than Wimbledon.

G1Player2
Jan 25th, 2005, 07:11 AM
This surface should actually suit Serena more than Maria...

Rollo
Jan 25th, 2005, 07:30 AM
You could be right SVSK. Maria still has no touch at all and Denise gave good advice IMO. Also, the court bounces high and reacts well to spin-and Serena produces a lot of it on her second serve.

Sharapova can still win though. And she's learning to drop shot and hit the occasional off pace ball.

silverwhite
Jan 25th, 2005, 08:58 AM
When is the last time Serena ran around her backhand to hit a dtl forehand from the backhand corner? Doesn't have that shot either? Huh?

YEC 2004 final, injured, against Sharapova. :p She CAN play those kind of shots. She just prefers to use raw power.

skanky~skanketta
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:24 AM
say whatever u want. i hope her head is screwed on tight tomorrow so she kicks some ass.

Sam L
Jan 25th, 2005, 10:29 AM
I've definitely noticed a lot more patient Serena this tournament.

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 02:42 PM
She may attempt other shots from time to time - topspin forehand, drop shots, slices, lobs, chips, half-volleys, volleys. But, she has yet to show that she's mastered the technique for any of these shots. Even worse, she attempts them without any idea of their strategic value.You're wrong. She hits virtually all of those shots well, and definitely at the correct strategic times. If you haven't seen it, you're the poster child for willful blindness, that's all.

Experimentee
Jan 25th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Yeah I agree with you. Today she definitely took the speed off her serve to get it in, and used more touch shots and angles than normal, and thus made less unforced errors. I liked how she played today and I hope she can use that more in her game.

DevilishAttitude
Jan 25th, 2005, 03:36 PM
Serena's serve 1st serve is still one of the best in tennis

Her 2nd serve has definetly got worse since his comeback. It's fairly slow and it kicks high which opponents can hit winners off :o

volta
Jan 25th, 2005, 03:40 PM
she knows what to do. i think that she changes the strategy of her server because of the opponent. i think that she will had power to it against Maria

harloo
Jan 25th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Serena's serve 1st serve is still one of the best in tennis

Her 2nd serve has definetly got worse since his comeback. It's fairly slow and it kicks high which opponents can hit winners off :o
the second serve is a bit lacking, but hopedully she steps up against Maria.

dreamgoddess099
Jan 25th, 2005, 03:56 PM
Maybe, just maybe, Serena has finally figured out she doesn't HAVE to overpower the opponents. She's more skiiled than they are. The only shot she lacks is a forehand slice.
Erm, Serena has a forehand slice too. She used to try that shot as an approach shot to get to net.

volta
Jan 25th, 2005, 04:00 PM
Erm, Serena has a forehand slice too. She used to try that shot as an approach shot to get to net.
oh her best drop shot is the right thing that is very hard to do and you canīt see many players doing it in the tour

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:40 PM
I know they mentioned Amelie whiffing on a 75 mph seond serve. And it seems to me, Serena was using a good deal of knee bend in her serve. She simply wasn't trying to hit hard. Her fastest was 119 mph, which is pretty smokin'.

Maybe you were at the 'fridge when they discussed it?:)
I looked at my recording again and you were right, they did discuss it. My bad. :p Just wanted to come back and tell you that I must have been at the fridge when they said it. :lol: I tell you, I get so nervous when Vee or Rena play that I think sometimes I go deaf. My heart beats so fast that it takes the blood from my legs and feet. :lol:

Becool
Jan 25th, 2005, 05:43 PM
Serena's serve 1st serve is still one of the best in tennis

Her 2nd serve has definetly got worse since his comeback. It's fairly slow and it kicks high which opponents can hit winners off :o
Yeah, I agree with you

Her second serve is still good, but not as it used to be..
I think the best second serve needs to go with Lindsay

bandabou
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:18 PM
The only shot? Are you kidding me?

Serving aside, the only shots I've seen Serena hit with any proficiency are the backhand drive (top or flat) and the forehand drive (mainly flat). That's it.

She may attempt other shots from time to time - topspin forehand, drop shots, slices, lobs, chips, half-volleys, volleys. But, she has yet to show that she's mastered the technique for any of these shots. Even worse, she attempts them without any idea of their strategic value.

You make her sound like she is Roger Federer. When is the last time Serena ran around her backhand to hit a dtl forehand from the backhand corner? Doesn't have that shot either? Huh?

Aha....I knew that we were going that road again. We already know you ain't no fan of Serena' s game...only game that is any good for you is Graf's and now Roger's too of course because he makes what, made Graf look good in her day,look routine now.

Cut Serena some slack....it isn't like she doesn't have any feature shot...the serve, the serve.

Denise4925
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:31 PM
Aha....I knew that we were going that road again. We already know you ain't no fan of Serena' s game...only game that is any good for you is Graf's and now Roger's too of course because he makes what, made Graf look good in her day,look routine now.

Cut Serena some slack....it isn't like she doesn't have any feature shot...the serve, the serve.
Also, I never see LDV criticizing Maria for her one-dimentional game.

Volcana
Jan 25th, 2005, 09:50 PM
Erm, Serena has a forehand slice too. She used to try that shot as an approach shot to get to net.I'm not a fan of her forehand slice. It either doesn't have much pace on it, or it pops up. She can actually hit a backhand slice relatively hard, get some depth, and keep it low. She's not Steffi Graf by a long chalk mind you, but by current standards it's a nice shot.

Also, it's a one handed shot, which increases her defensive range. (like that needed increasing.)