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backhanddtl4
Jan 24th, 2005, 03:18 PM
She was 1 for 7 on break point converstions. 1 little break could have won her the match because it was so close.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 04:38 PM
She was 1 for 7 on break point converstions. 1 little break could have won her the match because it was so close.You're right.

Venus had four break points to begin the second set and could not convert. Had she done so, the match probably would have gone to three sets.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:02 PM
Plus, Venus didn't attack the backhand of Molik. Duh Venus! It really isn't that hard to figure that one out. I could've been her coach and told her that. She only served four times to the Molik backhand on first serves, and only 2 times on the second. Is Venus stupid? Molik's backhand sucks. Attack through her backhand to get to the net. That backhand is a weakness!! It's like if Alicia were to hit to Venus' backhand all day. Venus would've won if she would've employed this very simply tatic.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Plus, Venus didn't attack the backhand of Molik. Duh Venus! It really isn't that hard to figure that one out. I could've been her coach and told her that. She only served four times to the Molik backhand on first serves, and only 2 times on the second. Is Venus stupid. Molik's backhand sucks. Attack through her abckhand to get to the net. That backhand is a weakness!! It's like if Alicia were to hit to Venus' backhand all day. Venus would've won if she would've employed this very simply tatic.

Venus isn't stupid; you don't win four Grand Slam if you are stupid.:rolleyes:

Venus didn't use that tatic this time, but I bet you the next time they play she will.

LeRoy.
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:05 PM
The game has passed Venus by. Its time she started to try to catch up or just admit that she's done.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:06 PM
You just know that Lindsay will exploit Molik's backhand!!!

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:08 PM
The game has passed Venus by. Its time she started to try to catch up or just admit that she's done.

That's why she is 8 in the world.

She is far from done. You may want her to be done, but until she says she is done, then she is done.

LeRoy.
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:11 PM
That's why she is 8 in the world.


Well she has been back for over a year and yet is only # 8.

Had Kim , Justine and Jennifer not been injured she would have been OUT of the top ten.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:12 PM
Venus isn't stupid; you don't win four Grand Slam if you are stupid.:rolleyes:

Venus didn't use that tatic this time, but I bet you the next time they play she will.

Next time doesn't matter, she played stupid!! Yes she won 4 slams, but the tour just isn't the same anymore!! Venus didn't need to play smart when she won her slams. During those years her serve was better and she was way more powerful than 98% of the tour. Now that isn't the same. I love Venus, and I would love to coach Venus (yeah, I wish!) because all she needs is a strategy and some little bits of confidence and she'll being winning again!! Believe me, when I don't play with a strategy, I don't feel confident. You're unsure of why you aren't hurting your opponent and why your game just isn't winning it for you. If Venus had someone give her a strategy then she would've won most of the Davenport matches last year, beaten Molik today, and not have lost to the types of players she's been losing to recently. I never said that she was stupid as a human being, but tennis wise today, she was!!

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:25 PM
Well she has been back for over a year and yet is only # 8.

Had Kim , Justine and Jennifer not been injured she would have been OUT of the top ten.

I wouldn't be so sure about that because if she were not injured, she would not have fallen out of the top ten.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:27 PM
Next time doesn't matter, she played stupid!! Yes she won 4 slams, but the tour just isn't the same anymore!! Venus didn't need to play smart when she won her slams. During those years her serve was better and she was way more powerful than 98% of the tour. Now that isn't the same. I love Venus, and I would love to coach Venus (yeah, I wish!) because all she needs is a strategy and some little bits of confidence and she'll being winning again!! Believe me, when I don't play with a strategy, I don't feel confident. You're unsure of why you aren't hurting your opponent and why your game just isn't winning it for you. If Venus had someone give her a strategy then she would've won most of the Davenport matches last year, beaten Molik today, and not have lost to the types of players she's been losing to recently. I never said that she was stupid as a human being, but tennis wise today, she was!!

Actually, you implied she was and that is worse than acutaly coming out and saying it.

I guess she should leave the tour until she figures out how to play again.:rolleyes:

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Actually, you implied she was and that is worse than acutaly coming out and saying it.

I guess she should leave the tour until she figures out how to play again.:rolleyes:

Lizchris, do you play tennis competively? Second, I know that in terms of intelligence, Venus is very smart. Venus didn't play smart at all today. And since when are you related to Venus or good friends with her. If I feel that she played stupid I have a right to say that. Venus didn't go out there with a game plan, and it bit her in the ass royally. Venus is now playing more consistently, that was the first step, playing consistently in her comeback. The new racket and daily regimine have worked well in that department. Venus is very intelligent and all she had to do is watch one match of Alicia's to figure out what to do against her on the court. I guarentee that she would've won the match if she did!!

!<blocparty>!
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:36 PM
That was easier said than done out there today given the way molik played. Venus was having difficulty coping with that backhand slice of Alicia - off the forehand wing. But she could have hit there a tad bit more maybe. Going back to the opening post - :lol:

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:38 PM
That was easier said than done out there today given the way molik played. Venus was having difficulty coping with that backhand slice of Alicia - off the forehand wing. But she could have hit there a tad bit more maybe. Going back to the opening post - :lol:

I agree that her break points were poor, but on the one of the six she could've played a good deep ball to Alicia's backhand, she may have won the point. I was more frustrated that Venus didn't serve more to the backhand. She could've served and volleyed to that side too!

!<blocparty>!
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:45 PM
I agree that her break points were poor, but on the one of the six she could've played a good deep ball to Alicia's backhand, she may have won the point. I was more frustrated that Venus didn't serve more to the backhand. She could've served and volleyed to that side too!
Yes, I agree. Venus still went to the backhand in the match though, Alicia was running around it quite a bit too, and played some slices that troubled Venus and mixed it up well by coming over it. But all credit to Alicia for the improvement in the shot though. Molik was also looking to dominate the point early on with that monster FH, so once she got the first srtike in, V had to play brilliantly to get a good shot that forced Alicia on the backfoot with a BH.

Venus did miss a few chances though, that BH pass DTL that went into the net in the TB (i think) comes to mind.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Yes, I agree. Venus still went to the backhand in the match though, Alicia was running around it quite a bit too, and played some slices that troubled Venus and mixed it up well by coming over it. But all credit to Alicia for the improvement in the shot though. Molik was also looking to dominate the point early on with that monster FH, so once she got the first srtike in, V had to play brilliantly to get a good shot that forced Alicia on the backfoot with a BH.

Venus did miss a few chances though, that BH pass DTL that went into the net in the TB (i think) comes to mind.


If Alicia was running around it then she should've been hitting her backhand down the line or appraoching into the forehand court which would be left vacent with Alicia's poor speed. Venus needed to attack through the backhand and get the open court. Alicia is good, but she if a player that Venus can easily beat.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Lizchris, do you play tennis competively? Second, I know that in terms of intelligence, Venus is very smart. Venus didn't play smart at all today. And since when are you related to Venus or good friends with her. If I feel that she played stupid I have a right to say that. Venus didn't go out there with a game plan, and it bit her in the ass royally. Venus is now playing more consistently, that was the first step, playing consistently in her comeback. The new racket and daily regimine have worked well in that department. Venus is very intelligent and all she had to do is watch one match of Alicia's to figure out what to do against her on the court. I guarentee that she would've won the match if she did!!
Maybe you should or advise Richard Williams since you know better what is wrong with Venus' game.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:07 PM
Maybe you should or advise Richard Williams since you know better what is wrong with Venus' game.

Well since Richard wasn't around in this case, then it wasn't his fault. Orcene doesn't know what to do. If Richard was there, I think that Venus would've been told what to do to win. Orcene sucks as a coach, I think you agree with me on that Lizchris.

Why are you attacking me in the first place, don't you see what I'm saying as relevent? I'm not talking out of my ass when I say that Venus should've attacked the backhand more and implied more of a game plan. I don't mean to be hatin' on you either Lizchris. You are on the "powerful" Williams fans on the board. (lol) I play tennis competively, I know what I'm talking about. I am in the same boat as Venus that my forehand is no where near as good as my backhand. I play the way Venus should by attacking the weakness and opening up the court that way and not allowing others to hurt my forehand.

davidmario
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:10 PM
Plus, Venus didn't attack the backhand of Molik. Duh Venus! It really isn't that hard to figure that one out. I could've been her coach and told her that. She only served four times to the Molik backhand on first serves, and only 2 times on the second. Is Venus stupid? Molik's backhand sucks. Attack through her backhand to get to the net. That backhand is a weakness!! It's like if Alicia were to hit to Venus' backhand all day. Venus would've won if she would've employed this very simply tatic.
yeah, i had the same feeling. Moliks backhand is too weak and sometimes Venus could have come to the net more.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:16 PM
Well since Richard wasn't around in this case, then it wasn't his fault. Orcene doesn't know what to do. If Richard was there, I think that Venus would've been told what to do to win. Orcene sucks as a coach, I think you agree with me on that Lizchris.

Why are you attacking me in the first place, don't you see what I'm saying as relevent? I'm not talking out of my ass when I say that Venus should've attacked the backhand more and implied more of a game plan. I don't mean to be hatin' on you either Lizchris. You are on the "powerful" Williams fans on the board. (lol) I play tennis competively, I know what I'm talking about. I am in the same boat as Venus that my forehand is no where near as good as my backhand. I play the way Venus should by attacking the weakness and opening up the court that way and not allowing others to hurt my forehand.

I didn't mean to be mean, but I didn't like when you called Venus stupid.

All Venus had to do was to call her father and he could have told her what to do. I agree that Oracene is a bad coach for Venus, not necessarity for Serena.

!<blocparty>!
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:18 PM
If Alicia was running around it then she should've been hitting her backhand down the line or appraoching into the forehand court which would be left vacent with Alicia's poor speed. Venus needed to attack through the backhand and get the open court. Alicia is good, but she if a player that Venus can easily beat.
Alicia moved really well today, just smacking the BH into the open space was NO easy task. Alicia ran down some great shots from Venus, one of them was this amazing get from a drop volley.

But I do agree with you overall, Venus could have exploited the BH side more :) I was just saying that Alicia deserves some credit aswell.

AjdeNate!
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:22 PM
What's that smell? Oh, sour grapes!

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:31 PM
What's that smell? Oh, sour grapes!
I wouldn't talk; At least Venus put up a fight and not played like she was Alicia's bitch, like Karolina played Lindsay. I had to turn the channel at one point because I was embarassed for her.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:33 PM
I didn't mean to be mean, but I didn't like when you called Venus stupid.

All Venus had to do was to call her father and he could have told her what to do. I agree that Oracene is a bad coach for Venus, not necessarity for Serena.

Again, I didn't call her stupid, I said that she played stupid. Venus is probably one of the most intelligent person on tour. No hard feelings okay Lizchris!

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Again, I didn't call her stupid, I said that she played stupid. Venus is probably one of the most intelligent person on tour. No hard feelings okay Lizchris!
OK:kiss:

AjdeNate!
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:36 PM
I wouldn't talk; At least Venus put up a fight and not played like she was Alicia's bitch, like Karolina played Lindsay. I had to turn the channel at one point because I was embarassed for her.
I'm glad you turned the channel. I wouldn't like you watching my favorite player. :wavey:

Hope your day gets better. It's not healthy to be so angry and hateful. :hug:

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:39 PM
OK:kiss:


MUY BIEN!

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:39 PM
I'm glad you turned the channel. I wouldn't like you watching my favorite player. :wavey:

Hope your day gets better. It's not healthy to be so angry and hateful. :hug:

No problem; she stunk worse than a backed up sewer.

I'll be fine after tomorrow because most likely both American left in the draw will make the semifinals and only one Russian will. So much for Russian domination.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:41 PM
No problem; she stunk worse than a backed up sewer.

I'll be fine after tomorrow because most likely both American left in the draw will make the semifinals and only one Russian will. So much for Russian domination.
Gee, what will you bitch about then?

Jaime Bahena
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:43 PM
The game has passed Venus by. Its time she started to try to catch up or just admit that she's done.
Don't be so hasty on your evaluation. Strange things have happened in the past; witness Seles and her stabbing/two years out of the game, and Capriati's personal problems/ability to come back and win some Grand Slams.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:45 PM
Gee, what will you bitch about then?
There won't be anything to bitch aobut, but maybe you will find something to bitch about; you seem the type.

Jaime Bahena
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:46 PM
That's why she is 8 in the world.

She is far from done. You may want her to be done, but until she says she is done, then she is done.

Whenever you're #8 in the world, and you're being being beaten by a #10 seed in a Slam 7-5, 7-6, a little adjustment is all you need to win against top ten players.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 24th, 2005, 06:48 PM
There won't be anything to bitch aobut, but maybe you will find something to bitch about; you seem the type. for sure

mishar
Jan 24th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Watching the match it's kind of incredible how right you are KDog about Venus' serve. In the fourth game (V was broken at love) she served every single time to Molik's forehand. In the sixth game (she won) she hit every serve except one to Molik's forehand. I don't know if it was strategic or if it's just the serve she's most comfortable with, but it's not smart.

Venus is still incredible defensively, but she's not attacking the same way with the same fearlessness.

tennischick
Jan 24th, 2005, 08:25 PM
Venus has always been a defensive player. that's not new. that she plays aggressively doesn't make her game any less defensive. her problem is that this used to work and it doesn't anymore. it's time to make some changes.

Hayato
Jan 24th, 2005, 08:26 PM
Alicia was a better player than Venus, that is why she lost. Molik's serve was too good, Venus couldn't break. I'm suprised Venus did that well actually. :p

joaco
Jan 24th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Plus, Venus didn't attack the backhand of Molik. Duh Venus! It really isn't that hard to figure that one out. I could've been her coach and told her that. She only served four times to the Molik backhand on first serves, and only 2 times on the second. Is Venus stupid? Molik's backhand sucks. Attack through her backhand to get to the net. That backhand is a weakness!! It's like if Alicia were to hit to Venus' backhand all day. Venus would've won if she would've employed this very simply tatic.
easier to say it than do it. I mean, I'm sure she tried, I believe her tactic improved in the second set specially. It just wasn't mean to be. Sometimes you try things but they just don't work.

Joaco

Jem
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:10 PM
Plus, Venus didn't attack the backhand of Molik. Duh Venus! It really isn't that hard to figure that one out. I could've been her coach and told her that. She only served four times to the Molik backhand on first serves, and only 2 times on the second. Is Venus stupid? Molik's backhand sucks. Attack through her backhand to get to the net. That backhand is a weakness!! It's like if Alicia were to hit to Venus' backhand all day. Venus would've won if she would've employed this very simply tatic.
I just watched the match and have to disagree with your analysis. First, Venus didn't attack Molik's backhand because she was not allowed to. Molik dominated from the ground, which is very surprising to me. Second, Molik's backhand may be a weaker wing, but it's not a bad backhand at all. She comes over it very well, and her slice backhand is a great shot. Molik just played a better match in every way. She served better, she controlled the ground game and she controlled her emotions. I don't think Venus was playing bad at all -- she just met someone who was better on this day. I'm picking Davenport to beat Molik, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes the other way. Molik is playing superb tennis.

mishar
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:11 PM
Venus has always been a defensive player. that's not new. that she plays aggressively doesn't make her game any less defensive. her problem is that this used to work and it doesn't anymore. it's time to make some changes.

Back in 00 and 01 Venus used to serve so well and then back up the serves with such heavy line-kissing groundstrokes that she would dominate her service games. When the other player put her on her back foot, she played great defense.

I think not only has her forehand and her second serve gone down but her first serve as well. Especially at the big moments.

lizchris
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:19 PM
Whenever you're #8 in the world, and you're being being beaten by a #10 seed in a Slam 7-5, 7-6, a little adjustment is all you need to win against top ten players.

Then Myskina needs al lot of adjustment because she only managed six games off of the 19 seed.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:26 PM
Just finished watching the match. Venus was hitting everything in the middle of the court today. She had NO confidence to go for the lines. This allowed Alicia to dictate. Venus was showing bits and pieces of what she is capable of with her net game, but she didn't attack enough. That, along with tentative serving killed her. Alicia played well, no doubt, but she was ripe for the picking last night. She was gettting overly excited about things sometimes. When Venus approached, Alicia was having SO many problems with the passes. Also, she couldn't handle Venus', in my mind, 3/4 serves with average placement most of the time. Venus needs to be more BOLD out there. Don't worry about missing, that'll happen to everyone. Venus needs a more balanced service motion, a more neutral toss to be able to hit all parts of the box, and a kick serve. This was a repeat of last year with Lisa. Alicia and Lisa attacked with their forehands, served great, weren't afraid to come in, and dictated the whole match. Venus' serve was more powerful last year, but got killed on second serves to the forehand, was still being too defensive, and in my mind PANICKING. Venus needs to work HARD on her serve. The forehand is coming along little by little, but still needs to work on it, and come in as much as possible. Never back away. I think one goal for Venus this year is to not allow her opponents to dictate her around at all during matches. She also needs to build up her upper body strength, and come in on average 25-30 times per match. I thin Mary Jo said it best: "The last couple of years, Venus hasn't improved on her weakness, and everyone else has."

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Then Myskina needs al lot of adjustment because she only managed six games off of the 19 seed.
Venus's problem now is that she plays completely differently against a top player. In the first few rounds here, she was hitting out on her shots a lot more and getting far more of her first serves, moving forward etc etc. Now against a top player, particularly during crunch time, her shots don't penetrate as much. It's a lot easier to be aggressive against an Eleni Danilidou because you know you're gonna win the match anyway, it just might be 6-4 6-4 as opposed to 6-3 6-1.

The same thing happened to Hingis back in '01 and '02. She'd be really aggressive in the first couple rounds and just kick the shit out of whoever she was playing, but in the later rounds against top players she'd hit balls down the middle of the court and wait for the other person to miss.

K-Dog
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:30 PM
I just watched the match and have to disagree with your analysis. First, Venus didn't attack Molik's backhand because she was not allowed to. Molik dominated from the ground, which is very surprising to me. Second, Molik's backhand may be a weaker wing, but it's not a bad backhand at all. She comes over it very well, and her slice backhand is a great shot. Molik just played a better match in every way. She served better, she controlled the ground game and she controlled her emotions. I don't think Venus was playing bad at all -- she just met someone who was better on this day. I'm picking Davenport to beat Molik, but I wouldn't be surprised if it goes the other way. Molik is playing superb tennis.


That's fine to disagree with me. I was talikng more about her serve not going to Molik's backhand enough. But Alicia does have a good backhand, but I think that Venus exploited that a little that it can be a weakness. Venus didn't attack and hit through her shots enough today, that's all.

fammmmedspin
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:36 PM
Whenever you're #8 in the world, and you're being being beaten by a #10 seed in a Slam 7-5, 7-6, a little adjustment is all you need to win against top ten players.
When you havn't beaten a top 10 player for a year plus and the number 10 seed beats you when you are playing better than you have for a long while its time to ask why. The answer is that she can't sustain doing what she does well long enough and the top 10 can now live what she does and are not overwhelmed like they were in 2000-2003. Offence no longer works against similar offenceand effective defence and loses against more consistent play. The top players are doing to her what Serena did in all those GS finals. There are only two conclusions - either she has to play well longer than she ever has done or she won't keep up .

Shonami Slam
Jan 24th, 2005, 09:40 PM
i think venus doesn't know how to play against herself.
i don't like molik at all. she makes me feel as though i'm watching men's tennis.
powershots and stupid - STUPID mistakes.
i hope justine will be back soon - she knows how to beat those powerhorses really good.

bandabou
Jan 24th, 2005, 10:21 PM
Hmmm....Venus, Venus. Too bad. Alicia has been real hot the last few months, but really these were the matches Venus always knew how to pull-off : the close matches...now she can't buy one to save her life.

F-R-E-A-K
Jan 24th, 2005, 10:23 PM
I believe she was slightly intimidated by Molik and her power. Vee was probably slightly overwhelemed.


Alicia went out and won the match in the second set tie-breaker.

No excuses. Vee needs to get her ass in gear and come up to the net. If she attacked and went up to the net, she had a great chance of winning. Vee's net statistics were something like 14/20 or soo ... that is good.

Denise4925
Jan 24th, 2005, 11:18 PM
Lizchris, do you play tennis competively? Second, I know that in terms of intelligence, Venus is very smart. Venus didn't play smart at all today. And since when are you related to Venus or good friends with her. If I feel that she played stupid I have a right to say that. Venus didn't go out there with a game plan, and it bit her in the ass royally. Venus is now playing more consistently, that was the first step, playing consistently in her comeback. The new racket and daily regimine have worked well in that department. Venus is very intelligent and all she had to do is watch one match of Alicia's to figure out what to do against her on the court. I guarentee that she would've won the match if she did!!
I agree with regard to the playing smarter, and all the hard work Venus has put in, and she's definitely more consistent then she was last year. But, most of Venus' errors came from Alicia's backhand slice. I think she did try to go there, but got burned.

Denise4925
Jan 24th, 2005, 11:23 PM
Alicia was a better player than Venus, that is why she lost. Molik's serve was too good, Venus couldn't break. I'm suprised Venus did that well actually. :p
Venus did break her. :rolleyes: Did you even watch the match?

Prizeidiot
Jan 25th, 2005, 06:03 AM
I'd say Venus played a pretty good match.... the problem was that she made errors at the WRONG TIMES. Her forehand was exposed a lot, she failed to get down and hit the slices from Alicia.