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View Full Version : Attack of the Clones - WTA style!


arcus
Jan 21st, 2005, 12:08 AM
womens tour is in great shape, there is a tons of great young talent, but.........

anyone else notice that that they all have kinda the same game? I.E. big serve, stay back, attack with double handed backhand and topspin forehand?

Thats great, but I'm ready for more variety, particularily, some serve volley.

I'd love to see some some martina-chris or borg mcenroe style contrasts going on on court. I know that there are some players that play a bit differently, but they're rare. Unfortunately, IMO, too many of the herd are painting with the same brush!

Aretha Franklin
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:17 AM
this is in the hands of the gods. juno will act if she perceives her women need more substance.

jdog3008
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:23 AM
this is in the hands of the gods. juno will act if she perceives her women need more substance.
:retard:

Philbo
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:27 AM
I totally agree Arcus!!

arcus
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:30 AM
its distressing, though, when every young phenom plays exactly like every other young phenom, and exactly like 95% of the tour, for that matter. Clone central. yawn.


Seems like everyone plays like there were moulded in the nick bollitieris tennis factory. Not that there is anything wrong with that so long as its not every players game.

A good serve volleyer might chew the tour up, cos no one would be used to playing against that style.

still serve volley is a game that takes longer to mature and maybe players, families and coaches are not willling to wait for that development before the $ start rolling in.

Havok
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:41 AM
Serve and volleyers would get destroyed on the women's tour quite frankly.:o They rip returns incredibly quick, giving the server not much time to get to the net. They would either have to have an insane serve that isn't attackable, or the best volleys around, along with very quick feet.

Grachka
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:41 AM
Its a hard one to convince people of, as it seems that the modern game makes it very difficult to succeed as a serve-volleyer, especially in terms of equipment, and court speed. Whilst there is a lot of moaning about lack of volleying, nobody seems willing to take the first step and actually encourage it, at the risk of being unpopular with the 95% you talk about.

I mean, if you were moulding a teenage phenomenon, would you consider encouraging serve-volleying? Look at those that do it fairly regularly as part of their game (I'm excluding Raymond as she hardly ever does it now). I can think of Selima Sfar, Els Callens and Amanda Janes (possibly Vinci, i can't remember her style, she does have great hands at the net), all of which (maybe excluding Els, whose age may now be a factor) have had limited success. Maybe this will change, but it seems a decent reason for the coaches and parents to steer away from it.

As you can see from the players in my sig, i agree with you.

arcus
Jan 21st, 2005, 01:53 AM
just to play devils advocate.....

If serena williams was totally on form, no distractions, and dedicated to play this style, I think she has the ability with her serve and her volley to dominate. If she did it all the time I think she'd she'd be really effective. It would just take time to adjust, and the courage to loose some before winning.

Although the women are returning better today, they are also serving so much better. Problem is that they are relatively poor at the net compared to their other skills.

Same skills-loss in the mens game. Look at henmen. He still makes the volley a main weapon, but he's the needle in a haystack in that respect.

I think there must be womens serve volley talent out there to nurture. Maybe there's a challenge for the Navratilova tennis academy that she's talked about, if she ever stops playing herself!!!

Gowza
Jan 21st, 2005, 02:38 AM
yeah most of the young talents are hard hitters with big serves. sophie ferguson mixes it up a bit more than the rest, she isnt exactly considered a top prospect but its good to see a young player with that sort of game. good to have players like henin and mauresmo at the top of the game to show players it can be done. krajicek is a bit different to the average prospect as well, she has the big serve but she has the volleys to back it up which not all the young talents do.

in a way it would be good to have a female version of federer, someone who has all the shots but also the power, henin atm is the closest to that i think but a player like that would force the other players to work more on the skill as well as keeping the power.

arcus
Jan 21st, 2005, 03:15 AM
yeah most of the young talents are hard hitters with big serves. sophie ferguson mixes it up a bit more than the rest, she isnt exactly considered a top prospect but its good to see a young player with that sort of game. good to have players like henin and mauresmo at the top of the game to show players it can be done. krajicek is a bit different to the average prospect as well, she has the big serve but she has the volleys to back it up which not all the young talents do.

in a way it would be good to have a female version of federer, someone who has all the shots but also the power, henin atm is the closest to that i think but a player like that would force the other players to work more on the skill as well as keeping the power.


Totally agree. JHH, mauresmo mix it up, but unfortunatley they are the exceptions to prove the rule. Most other players and the future prospects are alldoing the same thing. We need a femael federer to redefine things :)

Volcana
Jan 21st, 2005, 04:12 AM
womens tour is in great shape, there is a tons of great young talent, but......... anyone else notice that that they all have kinda the same game? I.E. big serve, stay back, attack with double handed backhand and topspin forehand?Yeah. people have been posting about that for the last five years or so. How every new player had that Monica Seles-type strategy. Serve as big as you can, stay back, go power off the ground. The positive thing is, look at the vets. More and more THEY are adding variety to their games. A slice here, a net approach there. None of them are BJK, natch, but a Serena-Amelie, or a Serena-Jenn, or a Justine-Lindsay gives you more variety than a matchups of the newbies. I think if you give the new players a couple years, their games will find some variety too.Totally agree. JHH, mauresmo mix it up, but unfortunatley they are the exceptions to prove the rule.JHH, Mauresmo aren't 'young' players. Mauresmo's 25, Henin-Hardenne, 22.

The players getting into their middle twenties aren't so one-dimensional. Serena's backhand slice is actually a competitive weapon now. Venus actually goes to net with real good odds of ending points there. Jenn has always used a variety of shots. And of course, Patty Schnyder is is Justine Henin-Hardenne without the power to add to the junk.

Serve and volleyers would get destroyed on the women's tour quite frankly.:o They rip returns incredibly quick, giving the server not much time to get to the net. They would either have to have an insane serve that isn't attackable, or the best volleys around, along with very quick feet.Venus Williams could succeed doing that. So could Serena. Maria Sharapova could. The thing about serve-and-volley is, you have to accept losing some points really quickly. The perfect passing shot can beat any net player, except mabe Federer. But if you have range and good volleys, youwin more than you lose. The universe isn't so out-of-control on the baseline.

fammmmedspin
Jan 21st, 2005, 04:45 AM
There's currently more variety han any time I recall since the eighties. Just look at sveta, Nastya, Patty, Momo, Justine, Kim, Venus, Serena, Elena D, Jen or Lindsay. Pretty much all different. Maria might go on to add to her game too making it very distinctive. If there is a problem its the younger players playing similar games - but if they want to win competition might split them up too..

Volcana
Jan 21st, 2005, 04:59 AM
There's currently more variety han any time I recall since the eighties. Just look at sveta, Nastya, Patty, Momo, Justine, Kim, Venus, Serena, Elena D, Jen or Lindsay. Pretty much all different. Maria might go on to add to her game too making it very distinctive. If there is a problem its the younger players playing similar games - but if they want to win competition might split them up too..But much difference between Elena D and Jenn, or Venus and Lindsay. But in general, youmake a good point.

Prizeidiot
Jan 21st, 2005, 05:51 AM
I think the main problem with the current players who serve and volley are that they aren't physically imposing enough. To serve volley, you need something good to move in behind, whether it's a big serve or a good approach shot. I think an effective serve volleyer could really cause havoc.

I've noticed a lot of the young girls coming from the Bolleteri (is that how you spell it?) Academy all play the same game. They all hit very flat and stay on the baseline. The lack of variety may be due to the players all being brought up under the same conditions and being taught the same way.

That said, it is true that the top 15 or so all have their own games and are all unlike.

fammmmedspin
Jan 21st, 2005, 06:06 AM
Some people are attacking the net more - Nastya did it a lot at the Fed Cup and she moves fast enough to dart in, Sveta and Nadia do it well if not that often, Momo would do it more if she remembered, Serena does it when she can't rely on power or her serve.

Serve and volley though is pretty limited against modern returns - the top 10 would pass you easily and some of them have really good lobs - watch Nastya or Maria deal with people at the net.

fammmmedspin
Jan 21st, 2005, 06:19 AM
But much difference between Elena D and Jenn, or Venus and Lindsay. But in general, youmake a good point.
But = not?

I think there is a difference between Elena and Jen but it would be impolite to say what it is. Lindsay and Venus I would have thought were very different - one has a game based on precision, power and some lack of mobility the other has a game based on power, some imprecision and supreme mobility?

A thought. Are the youngsters more the same because they have avoided the weaknesses in the older players games - they are a more complete evolutionary model? Or are they less capable because they don't have the strengths that the older players have to offset their weakneses. if all your tennis players have the same build, all share a relatively common training and they move around the same training camps won't you get what you get with evolution in those circumstances - common styles with few variations and at some point no evolution in the game?