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Geisha
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:10 PM
How many points will Jusitne lose when the AO is over? How far down could she go in the rankings/

Geisha
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:21 PM
Hello?

Geisha
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:22 PM
Does anybody know?

kabuki
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:23 PM
About 1000

LindsayRulez
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:26 PM
She'll lose about 1400 after just Sydney and the Australian Open...if she doesn't play Doha and Dubai...I think she'll be out of the top 25 or so.

Geisha
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:28 PM
thanks.

Elldee
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:50 PM
But if she stays out longer then she'll get a special/protected ranking, so that'd probably be for the best. Apparently her knee [or whatever she's hurt] needs 4 -6 weeks rest.

jonny84
Jan 9th, 2005, 03:00 PM
OK - Justine has 328 points to defend from Sydney and 958 from the Australian Open that she wont be able to defend - that equals 1286.

After the Australian circuit she will have 1598 worth of points (mainly from Dubai, Olympics and Indian Wells)

This will rank her somewhere around 15-18 when the new rankings come out - so its not as bad as people may think and she will still be in the top20 until March time when she has Dubai and Doha to defend as well as Indian Wells.

fammmmedspin
Jan 9th, 2005, 03:02 PM
Singles Rankings Points
(As of January 03, 2005) Week ofTournamentPointsResultTier
2004-01-19 Australian Open 958 WON Grand Slam
2004-03-08 Indian Wells 477 WON I
2004-08-16 Athens 435 WON Olympics
2004-01-12 Sydney 328 WONI I
2004-02-23 Dubai 250 WONI I
2004-04-05 Amelia Island 161 SF II
2004-08-30 US Open 128 4TH Grand Slam
2004-03-01 Doha 113 SF II
2004-05-24 Roland Garros 34 2ND Grand Slam

Total* 2884 * Points from ITF events excluded



According to tennis corner Justine's points are as above. She would be around 1600 after the AO which is mid teens in the rankings - Patty has lots of points to defend and might fall past Justine. If she misses Doha and Dubai she might be around 20 depending on how well other people do.

pigam
Jan 9th, 2005, 05:04 PM
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :D































who am I kidding? :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Spunky83
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:38 PM
She'll lose about 1400 after just Sydney and the Australian Open...if she doesn't play Doha and Dubai...I think she'll be out of the top 25 or so.

This really makes me sick :sad: ...well, at least she won´t have points to defend after the clay season starts. She will fight her way back to the top where she belongs!

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2005, 07:07 PM
But if she stays out longer then she'll get a special/protected ranking, so that'd probably be for the best. Apparently her knee [or whatever she's hurt] needs 4 -6 weeks rest.
I thought people had to apply early into their injury for protected ranking? Can someone get it if they thought they were going to be back before 6 months but then get another injury? :confused:

Tichi
Jan 9th, 2005, 07:12 PM
I guess we just have to look at the (one) positive thing... Kim and Justine will both have been out for about a year. They have nothing to defend.
Normally, they'll come back as the great winning players they were, before they got injured. So that means that they will again be winning and fighting their way up in the rankings!

Lady
Jan 9th, 2005, 07:16 PM
I thought people had to apply early into their injury for protected ranking? Can someone get it if they thought they were going to be back before 6 months but then get another injury? :confused:

Do you really think that WTA wants Justine to be ranked (not seeded) in the 30s when she comes back?
That they will actually follow some rules if they don't want to?
C'mon, it's WTA we're talking about! ;)
And Justine is their "official #1" in their Gold Extemt List! ;)

If Justine won't come back until her PR starts, I'd really love to see what WTA will come up with... A Special Seeding Special Rule as with WS, or something esle?? ;)

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Do you really think that WTA wants Justine to be ranked (not seeded) in the 30s when she comes back?
That they will actually follow some rules if they don't want to?
C'mon, it's WTA we're talking about! ;)
And Justine is their "official #1" in their Gold Extemt List! ;)

If Justine won't come back until her PR starts, I'd really love to see what WTA will come up with... A Special Seeding Special Rule as with WS, or something esle?? ;)
I don't know? :shrug:

but it will be interesting to see...;):) :D

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 9th, 2005, 08:03 PM
okay guys this is the ruling, i'm sure most of you seen this before.


C. WTA TOUR 2005 SPECIAL RANKING RULE
1. Criteria and Guidelines

All Injury Special Ranking applicants must notify the Tour of their

impending need for a Special Ranking within six (6) months after

their last professional tournament played before being out of

competition. The date for calculations will be the last day of that

tournament. A signed application with public release statement

along with medical documentation including the diagnosis of

condition, a copy of clinical visit, Physicians notes/documentation

and all relevant laboratory tests and applicable surgical reports,

must be submitted to the Tour Operations Department for the

approval of a special ranking status. If a player is requesting a

special ranking due to more than one injury, every one of these

injuries must be documented. All medical documentation will be

turned over to the Sport Sciences and Medicine Department to be

kept in the player’ confidential medical file.

a. A player must have been out of competition a minimum of

six (6) months and a maximum of two (2) years to be

eligible for a WTA Tour Special Ranking.

b. In singles, only players ranked in the top 300 on the WTA

Rankings at the time they stopped playing will be eligible

for a WTA Tour singles Special Ranking using the ranking

she earned immediately after the last tournament she

played.

c. In doubles, only players ranked in the top 200 on the

WTA Rankings at the time they stopped playing will be

eligible for a doubles Special Ranking using the ranking

she earned immediately after the last Tournament she

played.

d. A player has one (1) year from the time she returns to

competition to use the Special Ranking Tournaments

granted by the WTA Tour. The latest a player may use

her Special Ranking is at a tournament scheduled the

same calendar week in which the special ranking expires.

"Return to competition" is defined as a player playing any

event where ranking points are awarded, and using either

her "Actual" Ranking, her Special Ranking or a Wild Card

to gain entry into that Tournament.

Doubles and Singles “return to competition” dates shall be

treated as the same date using the event that is played

first (either singles or doubles). A player will have 52

weeks in which to use her singles and doubles Special

Ranking from date of return.

e. A player's Special Ranking will be the ranking she earned

immediately after the points of the last Tournament she

played has been added to the WTA Tour rankings.

(Cross-reference Processing of Rankings page 223)

f. A player may not be seeded using her Special Ranking,

however a player may be seeded using her Actual

ranking even if she has been accepted into the

Tournament using her Special Ranking.

g. A player may use her Special Ranking and Actual

Ranking interchangeably, however, once a player has

used her Special Ranking to enter a Tournament, after

the entry deadline, she may not change her entry status

to use her Actual Ranking. The actual ranking

supersedes the special ranking for acceptance purposes.

If a player has been accepted into a Tournament using

her Special Ranking, she may not accept a Wild Card into

the same event. A player accepted into the Qualifying of

a Tournament using her Special Ranking may accept a

Wild Card into the Main Draw up until 4:00 p.m. the day of

the Qualifying Sign-In.

h. The number of Special Ranking Tournaments a player will

be granted is eight (8). To be eligible for a Special

Ranking, the six (6) months mandatory time off the Tour

is calculated by:

i. The last Tournament a player played, whether it was

in singles or in doubles. The date for calculations will

be the last day of that tournament;

ii. The first Tournament a player plays upon her return,

whether she uses her Special Ranking, Actual

Ranking, or she receives a Wild Card (see Note

below). The earliest a player may return to

competition is at a tournament scheduled during the

same calendar week in which the six (6) month period

expires;

iii. If a player has been accepted into an event using her

Special Ranking but withdraws from the tournament

before she plays her first match in that event, it will

not count as a Special ranking tournament. A player

will, however, be responsible for any fines assessed

for late withdrawals or no-shows.

Note: Upon her return, it is the player's responsibility to

report to the WTA Tour the first Tournament she actually

plays, whether she is accepted into an ITF or WTA Tour

Tournament using her Special Ranking, Actual Ranking

or a Wild Card. From the time a player plays her first

Tournament (using either her Special Ranking, Actual or

by Wild Card), she will have twelve months to use her

eight Special Ranking Tournaments.

i. Grand Slams: A player who misses a minimum of three

(3) Grand Slams during her time off the Tour may enter a

maximum of one (1) Grand Slam using her Special

Ranking as part of her eight (8) Special Ranking

tournaments.

j. Maternity and injury/illness Special Ranking requests will

be governed by the same rules, however, as for absences

due to maternity leave, for a player to be eligible for a

Special Ranking such player must be ready to play her

first Tournament within twelve (12) months of the birth of

her child.

k. Quality Points awarded for defeating a Special Ranking

player will be based on that player's Actual Ranking, not

on her Special Ranking.

l. All Special Ranking requests for use in WTA Tour or ITF

Women's Circuit events must be made through the

Operations Department of the WTA Tour by the Tour

entry deadline or at least one (1) week prior to the entry

deadline of an ITF Women’s Circuit event. No requests

after the entry deadlines will be considered.

If Special Ranking privileges are abused, the player's

Special Ranking will be automatically revoked.

NOTE: A Special Ranking may not be used to gain entry

into the WTA Tour Championships.

NOTE: If a player uses her Doubles Special Ranking to

enter a doubles Qualifying, it will count as a doubles

Special Ranking Tournament used, regardless of whether

or not the team qualifies for the Main Draw.

NOTE: A player’s Special Ranking will not be used to

determine her Lucky Loser position or status. Only a

player’s Actual Ranking will be used to determine the

Lucky Loser order.

NOTE: Mixed Doubles at a Grand Slam will count

towards a player’s doubles allotment under the Special

Ranking Rule. If a player uses her Doubles Special

Ranking to enter a Doubles Main Draw and/or Qualifying

and the Mixed Doubles at a Grand Slam, it will count as 1

Doubles Grand Slam Special Ranking if she is eligible to

enter the Doubles Grand Slam event using her Special

Ranking.

NOTE: Gold and Silver Exempt players who have been

awarded a Special Ranking may use their special ranking

to enter tournaments late as one of their privileges

outlined in the Player Commitment section, page 30 ff).

The Tour reserves the right to review and amend this rule

during the year, if changes are in the best interest of the

players and the Tour.

vettipooh
Jan 9th, 2005, 08:53 PM
Thanks Eggy,, for clearing up a few things!!!!

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:04 PM
I don't have to read all that do I? :unsure:

summary? Somebody? Anybody? :p

Rocketta
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:06 PM
ok what's the difference between "protected Ranking" and "special ranking"?

Marcus1979
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:43 PM
I don't have to read all that do I? :unsure:

summary? Somebody? Anybody? :p

Poor OLD rocky

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 9th, 2005, 11:54 PM
ok what's the difference between "protected Ranking" and "special ranking"?Both get you into tournaments
Protected only gets you in, while Special gives you added privalage of being seeded where you was before getting injured.

(That is not fair, should be one rule for all, either way and Special Rank not for some select few :rolleyes: )

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 9th, 2005, 11:57 PM
I'm sure if the lower ranked player who is just given a protected rank, can take it to court, they will probably WIN the case.

Suprised no one has done it as yet :o
Wish i was a lawyer now ;)

Rocketta
Jan 10th, 2005, 12:32 AM
Both get you into tournaments
Protected only gets you in, while Special gives you added privalage of being seeded where you was before getting injured.

(That is not fair, should be one rule for all, either way and Special Rank not for some select few :rolleyes: )Ah I see! Protected is pretty much for the lower ranked player while they have special rank for the higher ranked players...;)

Rocketta
Jan 10th, 2005, 12:33 AM
Poor OLD rocky

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I mean really that was like work. However, I did do it. :p

Chriskip
Jan 10th, 2005, 01:42 AM
Hate to say this, but sometimes we really have to be careful of what we say or do. God/Life certainly has a way of letting some of us eat our words. Remember last year the big uproar about Venus and Serena's Special Seeding/Ranking? Well, maybe because of how some persons laboured on about it, God/Life has put another player in the same position, so we can now see how the cards will play. Lets see how quickly the stories/ excuses etc. will change. This will really be interesting.

fammmmedspin
Jan 10th, 2005, 01:42 AM
Interestingly according to da rule as i read it, special ranking only applies for 1 GS if you missed at least 3 which wouldn't apply to Justine or Kim well into next year. Thats presumably where our friend special seeding enters the confusion? That can't be limited to 1 GS - unless Serena's experience was unique - as the reasoning behind her seeding at GS in 2004 was the Special seeding, not GS discretion? It matters because Kim and Justine could both be unseeded at the French if special seeding was done by these special ranking rules?

~|Naomi|~
Jan 10th, 2005, 01:47 AM
Interestingly according to da rule as i read it, special ranking only applies for 1 GS if you missed at least 3 which wouldn't apply to Justine or Kim well into next year. Thats presumably where our friend special seeding enters the confusion? That can't be limited to 1 GS - unless Serena's experience was unique - as the reasoning behind her seeding at GS in 2004 was the Special seeding, not GS discretion? It matters because Kim and Justine could both be unseeded at the French if special seeding was done by these special ranking rules?


Well I think Justine can win the french unseeded anyway with a good draw and she will get in on her real ranking so she won't need a wc. Kim's ranking is going to plummet so depending on how her comeback goes she may need a wc or have to quallify.

cynicole
Jan 10th, 2005, 03:39 AM
Interestingly according to da rule as i read it, special ranking only applies for 1 GS if you missed at least 3 which wouldn't apply to Justine or Kim well into next year. Thats presumably where our friend special seeding enters the confusion? That can't be limited to 1 GS - unless Serena's experience was unique - as the reasoning behind her seeding at GS in 2004 was the Special seeding, not GS discretion? It matters because Kim and Justine could both be unseeded at the French if special seeding was done by these special ranking rules?
What Eggy posted was just the rules for the "Special Ranking" (aka "Injury Ranking").

There's a whole set of other rules for the "Special Seeding" or whatever the heck they called it last year which is a special set of rules designed for just the Gold Exempt players that were so freakin' arbitrary, and had never seemed to have existed on paper before and got Mauresmo and Davenport (who said the "new" rules weren't the ones that applied to her before) in a tizzy and a whole bunch of us on the board confused.

Honestly, I like the Injury Ranking thing but I loathe the special rules for Gold Exempts because...
1. You're giving special seedings and likely, in everything but Slams, byes to players who are just returning and really only need to get a few real matches in so handing a seeding right away is pretty useless AND unfair to the player who got bumped.
2. It's really a joke to call them "rules" since the WTA change them at will. We should just call them "guidelines."

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 10th, 2005, 09:36 AM
WTA dont put up the Special Seed stuff, cos thats arbitory and if they did put it up, it would be given criteria, but as of now they will give it to whoever they feel like :o

the WTA Special Seed gives you all of the above but gives you the Seeded position in the draw. (if you have a SS pos of #4 then if the current #4 player is also in draw you come after that player on the lists)

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 10th, 2005, 10:07 AM
Well, except that they will actually hand out a special seeding that is different from the player's special ranking, using a different formula (based IIRC on her average ranking for a period prior to your last tournament ... as opposed to your ranking immediately after her last tournament).

Why anyone who gets a special seeding should be given a seeding different from their special ranking is beyond me, but there it is. That was part of the problem with the special seedings for Ree and Vee. I didn't object to them being given special seedings but the way it was done was damn confusing, and few people here could work it out even when it was recently in all our memories. It's no wonder that players like Linzee and Momo were concerned (even if Momo let off too much steam about it, etc, etc, blah, blah).