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View Full Version : Does Justine need Kim (and viceversa)?


Fingon
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:53 AM
We all know that they hate each other.

As a Justine fan I don't like Kim, because of the San Diego incident.

But the two seem to do everything together, the got to their first GS final nearly at the same time, the got in the top ten at the same time, they got injured at the same time :sad:

I wonder if Kim being around gives Justine that extra motivation to go one step further, to raise her level one more bit.

I wonder if Kim had been back if Justine would have made a bigger effort to come back earlier.

I don't know if it's too extreme, but I think Justine gets some extra motivation with Kim around, they need each other (like black and white, the one can't exist without the other).

MinnyGophers
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:05 AM
i don't believe that they "hate" each other.
It is way too strong of a word. I agree that they are rivals, and that yeah they challenge each other to raise their levels.
For sure it wouldn't be the same if one of the two wasn't around

vogus
Jan 9th, 2005, 04:12 AM
i don't think Clisters and Henin hate each other, people tend to pump that theory up just for its entertainment value. They are huge rivals, which is not the same thing as hating each other. Justine hates the Williams sisters, and good on her for that as far as i'm concerned after the way they treated her.

But i agree that Justine pulling out of the AO right after Kim said she won't play, suggests there might be a bit of one-upsmanship going on.

Fingon
Jan 9th, 2005, 04:29 AM
i don't believe that they "hate" each other.
It is way too strong of a word. I agree that they are rivals, and that yeah they challenge each other to raise their levels.
For sure it wouldn't be the same if one of the two wasn't around
trust me, they do hate each other.

After the San Diego comments and the dopping accusations, they really hate each other.

tenn_ace
Jan 9th, 2005, 04:32 AM
trust me, they do hate each other.

After the San Diego comments and the dopping accusations, they really hate each other.

and you know this how? I mean, hate is pretty strong word....

Fingon
Jan 9th, 2005, 04:33 AM
i don't think Clisters and Henin hate each other, people tend to pump that theory up just for its entertainment value. They are huge rivals, which is not the same thing as hating each other. Justine hates the Williams sisters, and good on her for that as far as i'm concerned after the way they treated her.

But i agree that Justine pulling out of the AO right after Kim said she won't play, suggests there might be a bit of one-upsmanship going on.
are you a permanent resident of La La Land or you are just visiting there?

Do you really think if somebody accuses someone else publicly of taking drugs, generating a huge controversy in your country when you were supposed to be received like a hero that someone else won't hate the other person?

is that entertainment value? whatever.

Justine hasn't showed that she hates the Williams sisters, she doesn't like them, obviously, but her relationship with Clijsters is way worse.

Stamp Paid
Jan 9th, 2005, 04:36 AM
I think so, just how Venus and Serena need eachother. You need someone else doing just a little better than you that is close to you at least somewhat to spur you on to top them.

Marcus1979
Jan 9th, 2005, 04:36 AM
I thought that it was between the players families the fighting.

Not the actual players.

I am not convinced that Justine hates BOTH the williams sisters either as it seems to be just Serena that she has the issues with.

I would like to think they are independant and are both legitimately injured and Justines withdrawal has no bearing on the fact Kim previously withdrew.

When they come back they may be in a similar situation that both Venus and Serena were in when they returned to the tour.

Kimikim
Jan 9th, 2005, 05:50 AM
i think they need each other to pump each other's spirit!!!

Marcus1979
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:16 AM
i think they need each other to pump each other's spirit!!!

are they as close as the williams sisters are with one another or the russians are with one another.

????

LeRoy.
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:19 AM
People acting as if they know the players and how they feel about others is always funny but please don't try to present it like a fact or something :rolleyes:

Marcus1979
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:27 AM
I heard interviews that the russians were good friends. From the girls mouths themselves.

thats why i said the russians are close

LeRoy.
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:28 AM
You mean like Maria Sharapova and Myskina ?

Anyways I was referring to the thread starter and not you

gladysharon
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:29 AM
I believe this is all just a coincidence. They're both around the same age anyway.
Who knows fate or destiny or something like that made it seem that their actions are similar?! Could it be there's a greater 'power' out there controlling all these instances. Other than that, they mainly do the things themselves and want to challenge the world, not just each other.

Marcus1979
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:30 AM
thats so true.

all this friendship and stuff could be coincidence and the media trying to make headlines

Lemonskin.
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:43 AM
Justine certainly needs Kim - so she can win a GS ;)

Marcus1979
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:51 AM
Justine certainly needs Kim - so she can win a GS ;)

all of Justines Grand Slams came against Kim.

but she had to beat 6 previous people in those events so its not like she is beating just Kim.

Allez-H
Jan 9th, 2005, 12:37 PM
I don't know...Its seems that they need one another to spur eachother to the top.I mean the whole of their career have been quite similar.

*First title of Justine and Kim came in '99
*First time they made some noise:Justine while her second round vs Lindsay in RG and Kim two weeks later when she played her first Slam at 16 and made it to the 4th round (beating Coetzer on her way) only to fall vs Graf
*First time they made it to the top-20:Kim at the end of the 2000 season and Justine in the beginning of the 2001 season
*First slam-semi:RG 2001,played against eachother
*First slam-final:Kim at RG 2001 and Justine a couple of weeks later at Wimbledon
*First time in the top-10:Both the week after RG
*First time in top-5:Justine after Wimbledon,and Kim a couple of weeks later when she won BW classics
*First big title:the fedcup that they won together at the end of the 2001 season
*In may 2002,Kim beats surprisingly Venus at the Hamburg tournament,exactly one week later Justine upsets Serena in the final of Berlin
*Both lose early in RG 2002
*Both lose in 4th round of the USO,in the same night...both after leading in the last set
*Won the Luxembourg and Linz-title in exactly 1 hour difference
*In 2003,both lose to the Williamssisters in the semis the AO
*Both Advance to the final of RG
*Both lose in the semis against the Sisters at Wimbledon
*First number one:Kim after LA(i think?) and Justine only a couple months later
*Both play USO-final,beating an american in the semi
*Both have succes in the beginning of the 2004 season,only to fall in injury and illnesses
*Kim withdraws from RG,Justine tries to play with no succes
*Kim withdraws from Wimby,everybody expects Justine to play but withdraws too
*Kim withdraws from USO,Justine plays but again with no succes
*Justine calls it quits for the 2004-season,Kim attemps comeback in Bree but re-injures her wrist
*Kim withdraws from AO,everybody expects Justine to play but surprisingly withdraws

These are just a few,offcourse youcan say this is all just coincidence but still it makes you think.I really do think that they need eachother,they make eachother stronger.There's no Justine without Kim and viceversa

pigam
Jan 9th, 2005, 12:55 PM
I don't know...Its seems that they need one another to spur eachother to the top.I mean the whole of their career have been quite similar.

*First title of Justine and Kim came in '99
*First time they made some noise:Justine while her second round vs Lindsay in RG and Kim two weeks later when she played her first Slam at 16 and made it to the 4th round (beating Coetzer on her way) only to fall vs Graf
*First time they made it to the top-20:Kim at the end of the 2000 season and Justine in the beginning of the 2001 season
*First slam-semi:RG 2001,played against eachother
*First slam-final:Kim at RG 2001 and Justine a couple of weeks later at Wimbledon
*First time in the top-10:Both the week after RG
*First time in top-5:Justine after Wimbledon,and Kim a couple of weeks later when she won BW classics
*First big title:the fedcup that they won together at the end of the 2001 season
*In may 2002,Kim beats surprisingly Venus at the Hamburg tournament,exactly one week later Justine upsets Serena in the final of Berlin
*Both lose early in RG 2002
*Both lose in 4th round of the USO,in the same night...both after leading in the last set
*Won the Luxembourg and Linz-title in exactly 1 hour difference
*In 2003,both lose to the Williamssisters in the semis the AO
*Both Advance to the final of RG
*Both lose in the semis against the Sisters at Wimbledon
*First number one:Kim after LA(i think?) and Justine only a couple months later
*Both play USO-final,beating an american in the semi
*Both have succes in the beginning of the 2004 season,only to fall in injury and illnesses
*Kim withdraws from RG,Justine tries to play with no succes
*Kim withdraws from Wimby,everybody expects Justine to play but withdraws too
*Kim withdraws from USO,Justine plays but again with no succes
*Justine calls it quits for the 2004-season,Kim attemps comeback in Bree but re-injures her wrist
*Kim withdraws from AO,everybody expects Justine to play but surprisingly withdraws

These are just a few,offcourse youcan say this is all just coincidence but still it makes you think.I really do think that they need eachother,they make eachother stronger.There's no Justine without Kim and viceversa

you forget the Olympics.
Another occasion where Justine needed Kim.
"If Kim won't play for Belgium, I will get the gold", thought Justine, and so she did :)

vogus
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:38 PM
are you a permanent resident of La La Land or you are just visiting there?

Do you really think if somebody accuses someone else publicly of taking drugs, generating a huge controversy in your country when you were supposed to be received like a hero that someone else won't hate the other person?

is that entertainment value? whatever.

Justine hasn't showed that she hates the Williams sisters, she doesn't like them, obviously, but her relationship with Clijsters is way worse.

i think some people, and specifically the Belgian tabloids, have a predisposition towards, and vested interest in, stirring up controversy between Kim and Justine.

Have you read the interviews with Carlos? Unlike the tabloids, Carlos is a first-hand source, and according to him Justine and the Williams sisters was always an absolute mutual hate fest, especially with Serena.

tennnisfannn
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:50 PM
They probably need each other just as people (commentators) kept saying Venus didn't do well at the AO coz serena wasn't there. The Russians are presented to us so far as having a united front, "we encourage each other to do well" sort of remarks are bandid around all the time. What else are they supposed to say when asked the secret to the 'russian invasion'? I think they resent being lumped together that much, they are after all individuals. Wait till they have tasted more success then the sisterhood will be broken. Remember when the belgiums were coming up, all we ever heard was what good friends they were, eventually Justine had to say they were just compartriots.

Doraemon
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:50 PM
Kim is needing me.

saima
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:51 PM
Justine certainly needs Kim - so she can win a GS ;)
justine won olympic gold without kim.

saima
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:57 PM
It's just a coincidence.

Lady
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:02 PM
I don't believe Kim & Justine hate each other, I don't believe Justine & Serena hate each other too. They're just no friends.

About Kim & Justine similar ways in tennis, we discussed it in Justine's forum for some time now, and all I can say now, is I prefer Kim to come back as soon as she can! ;)

DelMonte
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:06 PM
i think some people, and specifically the Belgian tabloids, have a predisposition towards, and vested interest in, stirring up controversy between Kim and Justine.

Have you read the interviews with Carlos? Unlike the tabloids, Carlos is a first-hand source, and according to him Justine and the Williams sisters was always an absolute mutual hate fest, especially with Serena.

You seem to have a vested interest in proving the existence of "an absolute hate fest" between the Williams sisters and Justine. Seriously now, does this give you some immense satisfaction? Are there other people/things you proclaim to dislike because your favourite players seemingly dislike them as well?

pigam
Jan 9th, 2005, 05:01 PM
1. There is NO such thing as Belgian Tabnloids :confused: Trust me, I know.
There are papers of... "lower quality" but real tabloids? NO.

2. To be hounest, I think Justine likes to see Kim loose AND vice versa. Because they hate eachother. Maybe. Maybe not really. Because they are rivals. But like Fignon says, some things happened between them that did the relationship no good. I just hope Justine and Kim keep the difference in mind between a player and her entourage.

3. I don't know where this hate-fest between W and H comes from? Because of RG? Probably. I have several matches between Ju and Venus and SErena on tape, and at the net, they are always really friendly toward eachother. They all complimented eachother many times as being great champions. Justine once said Venus is always her toughest opponent, and she looks up (used to?) to Venus for her mental strenght. Recently her and Carlos declared they see Serena Williams as the main rival for Justine. They might not be 'girlfriends' ;) but there is certainly some sort of respect.

kiekeboe
Jan 9th, 2005, 05:39 PM
1. There is NO such thing as Belgian Tabnloids :confused: Trust me, I know.
There are papers of... "lower quality" but real tabloids? NO.

2. To be hounest, I think Justine likes to see Kim loose AND vice versa. Because they hate eachother. Maybe. Maybe not really. Because they are rivals. But like Fignon says, some things happened between them that did the relationship no good. I just hope Justine and Kim keep the difference in mind between a player and her entourage.

3. I don't know where this hate-fest between W and H comes from? Because of RG? Probably. I have several matches between Ju and Venus and SErena on tape, and at the net, they are always really friendly toward eachother. They all complimented eachother many times as being great champions. Justine once said Venus is always her toughest opponent, and she looks up (used to?) to Venus for her mental strenght. Recently her and Carlos declared they see Serena Williams as the main rival for Justine. They might not be 'girlfriends' ;) but there is certainly some sort of respect.


I agree with you.

^bibi^
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Please stop telling they hate each other, it's just what the press says to sell more papers... They are just rivals, and their rivality probably helped them to reach the top... but stop foccussing on this hatried thing...

calabar
Jan 9th, 2005, 08:54 PM
Justine hates the Williams sisters, and good on her for that as far as i'm concerned after the way they treated her.
Could you please enlighten me regarding how the Williams Sisters treated Justine?

icequeen
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:02 PM
i don't think Clisters and Henin hate each other, people tend to pump that theory up just for its entertainment value. They are huge rivals, which is not the same thing as hating each other. Justine hates the Williams sisters, and good on her for that as far as i'm concerned after the way they treated her.

But i agree that Justine pulling out of the AO right after Kim said she won't play, suggests there might be a bit of one-upsmanship going on.


Please enlighten me on how the sisters have treated jhh.

flyingmachine
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:26 PM
I don't know...Its seems that they need one another to spur eachother to the top.I mean the whole of their career have been quite similar.

*First title of Justine and Kim came in '99
*First time they made some noise:Justine while her second round vs Lindsay in RG and Kim two weeks later when she played her first Slam at 16 and made it to the 4th round (beating Coetzer on her way) only to fall vs Graf
*First time they made it to the top-20:Kim at the end of the 2000 season and Justine in the beginning of the 2001 season
*First slam-semi:RG 2001,played against eachother
*First slam-final:Kim at RG 2001 and Justine a couple of weeks later at Wimbledon
*First time in the top-10:Both the week after RG
*First time in top-5:Justine after Wimbledon,and Kim a couple of weeks later when she won BW classics
*First big title:the fedcup that they won together at the end of the 2001 season
*In may 2002,Kim beats surprisingly Venus at the Hamburg tournament,exactly one week later Justine upsets Serena in the final of Berlin
*Both lose early in RG 2002
*Both lose in 4th round of the USO,in the same night...both after leading in the last set
*Won the Luxembourg and Linz-title in exactly 1 hour difference
*In 2003,both lose to the Williamssisters in the semis the AO
*Both Advance to the final of RG
*Both lose in the semis against the Sisters at Wimbledon
*First number one:Kim after LA(i think?) and Justine only a couple months later
*Both play USO-final,beating an american in the semi
*Both have succes in the beginning of the 2004 season,only to fall in injury and illnesses
*Kim withdraws from RG,Justine tries to play with no succes
*Kim withdraws from Wimby,everybody expects Justine to play but withdraws too
*Kim withdraws from USO,Justine plays but again with no succes
*Justine calls it quits for the 2004-season,Kim attemps comeback in Bree but re-injures her wrist
*Kim withdraws from AO,everybody expects Justine to play but surprisingly withdraws

These are just a few,offcourse youcan say this is all just coincidence but still it makes you think.I really do think that they need eachother,they make eachother stronger.There's no Justine without Kim and viceversa
Allezjuju I think this is just a coincidence.
Afterall Justine won The Olypmics without Kim.
I could understand why you and Fingon are thinking like that the relationship between Justine and Kim are rivals. Just like the relationship between Justine the Williams but I do think kim and Justine is in a more intense rivality than the sisters because both Kim and Justine are in the same country this mighty help the motivation because of that intense rivality.
However if you want to won that trophy or this GS than you will motivated yourself to won that game in order to achieve that trophy or GS reguardless if you are against your rivals or not. You have to remembered that in a GS for example you have to beat 7 different people in order to win so if you only beats your rivals but fall over against a non rival then this is not good eonugh to win a GS or a trophy.

manu
Jan 9th, 2005, 11:26 PM
I do think they might feel some kind of connection towards each other, even though they don't have a very good relationship. Just a few weeks ago, Justine said that she wished that Kim would come back soon, because she thinks that, after all, together they wrote history for Belgium. That shows that there's still respect for each other! :worship:

MinnyGophers
Jan 10th, 2005, 01:24 AM
Could you please enlighten me regarding how the Williams Sisters treated Justine?

I heard somewhere that it started with how the WS used to make fun of Justine and her size in the locker room ( i have no idea if it is true)
but either way, the RG incident probably helped...
although, i really don't think that they hate each other either.
it is more of a rivalry, and i really believe that deep down they respect each other as champions and toughest opponents.

alexusjonesfan
Jan 10th, 2005, 01:41 AM
Sorry, I don't have anything worthwile to say on this subject...I just thought Pigam's use of W and H was cool :o

~|Naomi|~
Jan 10th, 2005, 01:42 AM
Have you read the interviews with Carlos? Unlike the tabloids, Carlos is a first-hand source, and according to him Justine and the Williams sisters was always an absolute mutual hate fest, especially with Serena. Well another first hand source is Carl Maes and he says they don't hate each other but they respect each other, but they don't like each other either they just don't hate each other. He also said they were never the good friends the media made them out to be, or to put it as he did they never went out for cups of tea:lol: But he also mentioned that they do motivate each other, he says always said to Kim not to focus on her ranking in Belgium because as he put it she could be number 1 in Belgium but number 100 in the world but being top 10 in the world and number 2 in Belgium is better.


Just a few weeks ago, Justine said that she wished that Kim would come back soon, because she thinks that, after all, together they wrote history for Belgium. That shows that there's still respect for each other!

That's a really nice thing of her to say, do you have the article it was in? Or was it on tv? But it just goes in accoradance with what Maes said they respect each other.

Allez-H
Jan 10th, 2005, 05:29 AM
Well another first hand source is Carl Maes and he says they don't hate each other but they respect each other, but they don't like each other either they just don't hate each other. He also said they were never the good friends the media made them out to be, or to put it as he did they never went out for cups of tea:lol: But he also mentioned that they do motivate each other, he says always said to Kim not to focus on her ranking in Belgium because as he put it she could be number 1 in Belgium but number 100 in the world but being top 10 in the world and number 2 in Belgium is better.


That's a really nice thing of her to say, do you have the article it was in? Or was it on tv? But it just goes in accoradance with what Maes said they respect each other.
She said on tv,i believe it was while the sportswoman of the year-election or the WTT :wavey:

Marcus1979
Jan 10th, 2005, 05:38 AM
You mean like Maria Sharapova and Myskina ?

Anyways I was referring to the thread starter and not you


My mistake.

Sorry if I sounded defensive

cheo23
Jan 10th, 2005, 05:45 AM
I don't know...Its seems that they need one another to spur eachother to the top.I mean the whole of their career have been quite similar.

*First title of Justine and Kim came in '99
*First time they made some noise:Justine while her second round vs Lindsay in RG and Kim two weeks later when she played her first Slam at 16 and made it to the 4th round (beating Coetzer on her way) only to fall vs Graf
*First time they made it to the top-20:Kim at the end of the 2000 season and Justine in the beginning of the 2001 season
*First slam-semi:RG 2001,played against eachother
*First slam-final:Kim at RG 2001 and Justine a couple of weeks later at Wimbledon
*First time in the top-10:Both the week after RG
*First time in top-5:Justine after Wimbledon,and Kim a couple of weeks later when she won BW classics
*First big title:the fedcup that they won together at the end of the 2001 season
*In may 2002,Kim beats surprisingly Venus at the Hamburg tournament,exactly one week later Justine upsets Serena in the final of Berlin
*Both lose early in RG 2002
*Both lose in 4th round of the USO,in the same night...both after leading in the last set
*Won the Luxembourg and Linz-title in exactly 1 hour difference
*In 2003,both lose to the Williamssisters in the semis the AO
*Both Advance to the final of RG
*Both lose in the semis against the Sisters at Wimbledon
*First number one:Kim after LA(i think?) and Justine only a couple months later
*Both play USO-final,beating an american in the semi
*Both have succes in the beginning of the 2004 season,only to fall in injury and illnesses
*Kim withdraws from RG,Justine tries to play with no succes
*Kim withdraws from Wimby,everybody expects Justine to play but withdraws too
*Kim withdraws from USO,Justine plays but again with no succes
*Justine calls it quits for the 2004-season,Kim attemps comeback in Bree but re-injures her wrist
*Kim withdraws from AO,everybody expects Justine to play but surprisingly withdraws

These are just a few,offcourse youcan say this is all just coincidence but still it makes you think.I really do think that they need eachother,they make eachother stronger.There's no Justine without Kim and viceversa
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship:
Say NO MorE!
U have a GREAT MEMORY! :D
Yeah they need each other 2
U can argue the OLYMPICS
but thats Just ONe EVENT
otherwise..they have alot of similarities in results
GREAT JOB ALLEZJUJU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :worship: :worship: :worship:

~|Naomi|~
Jan 10th, 2005, 06:41 AM
She said on tv,i believe it was while the sportswoman of the year-election or the WTT :wavey:

Thanks, shame there is no article to read but that's okay:)

Grohl
Jan 10th, 2005, 10:52 AM
trust me, they do hate each other.

After the San Diego comments and the dopping accusations, they really hate each other.
I don't know hate is the right word, more dislike.

Grohl
Jan 10th, 2005, 10:57 AM
is it coincidenc that whenever justine isn't quite sure about playing in a tournament and Kim withdraws from it, justine does as well? just something my family noticed...

Greenout
Jan 10th, 2005, 11:07 AM
is it coincidenc that whenever justine isn't quite sure about playing in a tournament and Kim withdraws from it, justine does as well? just something my family noticed...


I don't see the big coincidence. It just looks that way to
some people who enjoy lumping them together because
they're both Belgian. '

If you tried, there's coincidences between Justine and alot of
other players. Take Patty for example..why is it that she seems to
win at or does well at events Justine has already won or
in tournments that they both are entered in?


Really...Justine and Kim are night and day; but I suppose if
you look hard enough you could find something similar about
"night and day" too.