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View Full Version : Injurys at the moment = proof the off season needs to be longer!


king416
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Looking at the injury lists and the constant updates on who is next to drop out of the Australian Open, it seems there is barely any player who is injury free. I think the off season should be longer so all the women can be recuperated and ready to play this event, its a grand slam and should have all the worlds best. The entry list for the AO is looking more and more pathetic, as players keep on withdrawing, no justine, no kim, looks like no jen or mary, even amelie may withdraw!

goldenlox
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:21 PM
The players have to adjust their training, and their schedules

TheBoiledEgg
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:24 PM
its just the way the players exert themselves these days on court thats the problem....... too physical and not enough prep off court to encounter it.

Power tennis is slowly killing the top players.

they used to pretty much play all yr and never had these sorts of probs.

sartrista7
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Jesus, not this again.

The off season is fine. Henin-Hardenne isn't exactly injured from over-playing. Neither the Williams sisters nor Mauresmo, traditionally the most injury-prone players on tour, have ever even come close to over-playing. Clijsters did, but her mentalist schedule in 2003 was her own damn fault.

The players need to take more responsibility for their health: they need to schedule sensibly, and incorporate fitness routines into their training regimes which focus on preventing injury.

The WTA needs to stop pressuring them to play tournaments. However, the number of tournaments and length of the season is fine: indeed, some of the lower-ranked players' livelihoods are dependent on it being as long as it is.

The only thing which really needs to be changed is the number of hard court tournaments - it's a surface which is particularly jarring to the limbs, while grass and clay are much more forgiving.

fammmmedspin
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Logically given that most of the injured players have long established injuries, damaged themselves training in the off season, were injured playing exhibitions instead of recovering from 2004 or hurt themselves in their first match back there is much more case for a longer season than a short one.

KV
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:28 PM
Jesus, not this again.

The off season is fine. Henin-Hardenne isn't exactly injured from over-playing. Neither the Williams sisters nor Mauresmo, traditionally the most injury-prone players on tour, have ever even come close to over-playing. Clijsters did, but her mentalist schedule in 2003 was her own damn fault.

The players need to take more responsibility for their health: they need to schedule sensibly, and incorporate fitness routines into their training regimes which focus on preventing injury.

The WTA needs to stop pressuring them to play tournaments. However, the number of tournaments and length of the season is fine: indeed, some of the lower-ranked players' livelihoods are dependent on it being as long as it is.

The only thing which really needs to be changed is the number of hard court tournaments - it's a surface which is particularly jarring to the limbs, while grass and clay are much more forgiving.Yes, more grass tournaments. For clay then rather green clay, cause it's a fairer surface than red clay. Watch the ranking in men's tennis. A large of number of the high ranked are red clay courters. I think red clay provides too many overranked players. Would Castano have made the Main Draw of Wimbly or the tournament she lost 0-6 0-6 against A. Molik without her perf. on red clay?

Andy T
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:33 PM
Looking at the injury lists and the constant updates on who is next to drop out of the Australian Open, it seems there is barely any player who is injury free. I think the off season should be longer so all the women can be recuperated and ready to play this event, its a grand slam and should have all the worlds best. The entry list for the AO is looking more and more pathetic, as players keep on withdrawing, no justine, no kim, looks like no jen or mary, even amelie may withdraw!
Justine and Kim were both injured and stopped playing well before the off-season, so their off-season has been several months long already. Jen hardly played in the autumn either. IMO the high level of injuries is more the result of too much play on hardcourts than anything else.

sartrista7
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:34 PM
Yes, more grass tournaments. For clay then rather green clay, cause it's a fairer surface than red clay. Watch the ranking in men's tennis. A large of number of the high ranked are red clay courters. I think red clay provides too many overranked players. Would Castano have made the Main Draw of Wimbly or the tournament she lost 0-6 0-6 against A. Molik without her perf. on red clay?

Actually, I think there should be less small red clay tournaments, but at least double the number of top-level red clay tournaments. It's pretty appalling that top players like Davenport can get away with almost completely ignoring red clay every year (yet if you want to stay in the top 5, there's no way you can skip the hard court tournaments, even though they're worse for your body).

Julia1968
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:35 PM
The players have to adjust their training, and their schedules


I agree. And instead of playing exhibitions during the off-season, they could be resting.

Whatzup
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:37 PM
Players can play as many tournaments as they want! If some players are saying that the off season is too short, than they have to cut down their schedule and play lesser tournaments.

741852
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:39 PM
I agree. And instead of playing exhibitions during the off-season, they could be resting.
:worship:

Julia1968
Jan 8th, 2005, 06:46 PM
Players can play as many tournaments as they want! If some players are saying that the off season is too short, than they have to cut down their schedule and play lesser tournaments.

Thank you for that post. Hopefully, some of the WTA players will read it.

Dawn Marie
Jan 8th, 2005, 08:15 PM
Offseason is too short, but it is up to the players to use their own brains and adjust to THEIR bodies and schedules. Sure the WTA tour is set up for the players to play and enter every tourney.

The WTA players just have to say to themselves.. " screw you , you money hungery Wta tour and tournament sponsors. I will enter what I wish to enter regardless of your begging me to make you more money." Even though the tour supports them, these girls are also the wta tour. You gotta say fuck off once inawhile!:)

Dawn Marie
Jan 8th, 2005, 08:15 PM
Justine said fuck off to the Australian Open. So it can be done.:)

azinna
Jan 8th, 2005, 08:23 PM
This is a tough problem.

The real issue is, of course, that women's tennis has become far more athletic since Graf/Williams Sisters. And the off-court, injury-preventing regimen for women's bodies doesn't seem to have yet been able to compensate. I'm not sure if the physical training establishment has yet been able to develop approaches to prevent the myriad injuries plaguing the WTA. They're doing better over at the ATP, although Rios, Magnus Norman, Ferrero, Haas, Kuerten, etc would all have something to say.

Still, it doesn't make sense to argue that a longer off-season wouldn't help. Injuries and exhibitions are multiplying during the off-season because there is considerable pressure to be sharp come the Aussie Open in January. This same pressure keeps top players playing through to November. Sorry folks, but there's no denying that a reasonable 4-month off-season would allow players to heal for at least one of those months (while continuing with conditioning work) and then slowly phase back into Tour-level physical exertion.

In some kind of fantasy tennis calendar, I'd have the season end October 1 and start up again February 1. I'd make the two hardcourt seasons one, have either the US or Aussie Open be on carpet and give each slam a proper run-up of 5-6 weeks of tournaments. The likelihood of these changes occuring all at once is low, but similar radical ones have been done one at a time. Let's keep the pressure on.

sartrista7
Jan 8th, 2005, 08:40 PM
In some kind of fantasy tennis calendar, I'd have the season end October 1 and start up again February 1. I'd make the two hardcourt seasons one, have either the US or Aussie Open be on carpet and give each slam a proper run-up of 5-6 weeks of tournaments. The likelihood of these changes occuring at once is low, but similar ones have been done over time. Let's keep the pressure on the powers that be.

Trouble is, the 'let's end the season after the US Open' is one which only Americans would take seriously. For fans, tournament directors and players based in Europe, the indoor European season is a higher priority than the over-hyped US Open series - and with the balance of power on tour swinging towards Europe, you're going to see tournaments like the Kremlin Cup increase their prestige with top players like Myskina and Kuznetsova who see it as a highlight of their season, rather than Americans like Capriati and the Williams sisters whose attitude towards the autumn swing has been pretty negative. And this is in addition to the concurrent Asian swing, which just a few years ago was for the scrubs of the tour to scrounge points and money, but which is exponentially growing in one of the tour's hottest new markets.

Furthermore, and this really can't be emphasised enough, lower-ranked players need an 11-month tour to earn a decent living. If you're scraping a career out on the fringes of the top 100, no way can you afford to take four months a year off. In fact, it's probably only the top 20-30 who can do so comfortably. So there need to be tournaments in place - whether the top ten play them is up to them. As it is right now, in fact.

lindsayno1
Jan 8th, 2005, 08:54 PM
its true, i mean look at the current top 10 - most are injured. i may not be aware of everyones, so forgive me if i miss something out

1 L. DAVENPORT - ongoing knee cartliadge degeneration, nerve in foot, shoulder
2 A. MAURESMO - was it a thigh injury???
3 A. MYSKINA
4 S. KUZNETSOVA
5 M. SHARAPOVA
6 E. DEMENTIEVA
7 S. WILLIAMS injured
8 J. HENIN-HARDENNE knee injury
9 V. ZVONAREVA
10 V. WILLIAMS injured

fammmmedspin
Jan 8th, 2005, 09:07 PM
This is a tough problem.

The real issue is, of course, that women's tennis has become far more athletic since Graf/Williams Sisters..
Come to think of it Graf suffered enough too - some years her schedule was as short as a Williams Sister's due to injury - though you would have to know if the back would have been a problem if she didn't have such power.

Arguably the change since is that the top 10 are all trying to match Williams sister's levels of power that the Williams sisters themselves could not sustain for a full schedule and now have chronic injuries from. Even Myskina has had shoulder trouble with her 105+ mph serves and Dementieva's serving problem came from shoulder injury. If the 2, non-teen, top 20 players who look the least reliant on powerplays and have the more crowded schedules can be injured, its hardly surprising that the older big hitters are injured so often..

azinna
Jan 8th, 2005, 09:42 PM
Excellent points, sartrista. Except I never really said anything about the US Open being the last tournament. Nor did I do away with the indoor carpet season. I suggested: Four slams. Four different surfaces. Each with considerable build-up on that surface.

But I was talking fantasy. Let's try to tackle reality (with no promise to please every player and power-that-be). I don't care where the off-season ends up, just as long as it can be sizeable. So.....

(1) Keep the indoor season in the fall, in Europe, moving across through Asia, then ending in......

(2) ...Australia. Yes, move the Aussie Open back in early December (still Australian summer vacation). Get Aussie Open officials to consider at least a very fast hardcourt. Or even perhaps carpet itself (though I realise an indoor carpert tournament serving two 128-player draws would be a b*tch to do).

(3) Then either end with YECs in Asia or (better yet) call it a season. Let the Aussie get its own glamour status as a kind of YEC.

(4) Follow with at least two (2) months of no official tournaments. Hopefully, lower-ranked players can earn some kind of living on a 10-month tour.

(5) With no Slams until the French in late May, top players can rest/heal in January with no penalty, they can ease back into training and practice in February or March depending on their points/finances/personal desires, then work their way into the clay season.


One (of several) blocks to this sort of calendar would be the so-called "5th slams" in March (Indian Wells and Key Biscayne). I'm American (as well as Nigerian) and I still see no reason to have two hardcourt tournaments in March, break for clay and grass, then return to the injury-producing hardcourts. Either they turn clay or they find a spot in the 'US Open series.'

darrinbaker00
Jan 8th, 2005, 09:42 PM
I'll ask the same question I always ask whenever this subject comes up: which tournaments does Larry Scott eliminate? If he cuts an event because the promoter isn't living up to his/her end of the agreement (poor ticket sales, substandard facilities, etc.), that's fine, but if he cuts an event simply to lengthen the offseason, then he's going to have a lawsuit on his hands. As many people have said in this thread, each player's season is only as long or as short as she makes it. In 2002, Serena Williams managed to end the season at #1 while playing only 13 events, so as long as you win, you don't have to play as much. I'm sick and tired of players complaining about the tour schedule being too long, then spending the winter collecting fat checks at exhibition events. The tour calendar comes out well enough in advance for each player to plan her schedule, so shut up and play (or not play) already!

Sam L
Jan 8th, 2005, 10:23 PM
Just because there's a tournament playing it doesn't mean you need to play it. These are tennis players, not office workers. You can choose when you want to play. If you want to stop your season in August. THen fine. Bye, c u next year. :shrug:

crazillo
Jan 8th, 2005, 10:26 PM
I posted a quote of Novotna from the 90's where she said something has to change and look how much changed -- nothing!!

jimbo mack
Jan 8th, 2005, 10:33 PM
dont we have this thread every year? :rolleyes:

some of u are so negative

just do what i do- concentrate on the ones that ARE playing instead of moaning about the ones aren't

:)

Prizeidiot
Jan 9th, 2005, 06:44 AM
Yes, more grass tournaments. For clay then rather green clay, cause it's a fairer surface than red clay. Watch the ranking in men's tennis. A large of number of the high ranked are red clay courters. I think red clay provides too many overranked players. Would Castano have made the Main Draw of Wimbly or the tournament she lost 0-6 0-6 against A. Molik without her perf. on red clay?
Actually, I think we need less clay tournaments. Yes the surface doesn't put as much stress on the body, but the players have to play longer due to the speed and bounce.

Grass is the perfect surface, though more difficult to maintain. It's easy on the body, the rallies don't go on for hours, and on top of that, it would promote the net game more.

I don't think the season should be shortened, because as someone else pointed out, a lot of the lower ranked players need them to make a living.

Greenout
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:31 AM
Offseason is too short, but it is up to the players to use their own brains and adjust to THEIR bodies and schedules. Sure the WTA tour is set up for the players to play and enter every tourney.

The WTA players just have to say to themselves.. " screw you , you money hungery Wta tour and tournament sponsors. I will enter what I wish to enter regardless of your begging me to make you more money." Even though the tour supports them, these girls are also the wta tour. You gotta say fuck off once inawhile!:)


Right!

Look at Justine; the Sydney doctors told her to rest and
play Melbourne because it's ok. Carlos and Co. said sorry
we're going back home and get a second opinion-
thank you very much. :wavey:

Players have to be careful. The tour is money, and a business.
They really aren't bent toward the interest of a player- it's about
money and their tournaments.

One thing the WTA should do is re-vamp the schedule and
ranking points. Players like Maria shouldn't be allowed to
play Tier IV and get points. If they want to play for the appearance
that's up to the promoter- but no ranking rewards.

Anything below a Tier II should not be even counted for players
already in the top 16. Tier III's are for lower ranked players- they
need the money and the points.

Perhaps a new system where young players like Michaela or
Nicole can earn WC's as seeds into the main draws for Tier 1's
or Tier's after they win a certain minumum amount of Tier III-IV-IV's.

They should award younger players for winning their first tournaments
with something else, other a few crumbs of ranking points. Really
make it worth their while, rather than letting those journeymen
who play 32 events a year get ranked in at number 18 on the
WTA.

2284
Jan 9th, 2005, 09:38 AM
(2) ...Australia. Yes, move the Aussie Open back in early December (still Australian summer vacation). Get Aussie Open officials to consider at least a very fast hardcourt. Or even perhaps carpet itself (though I realise an indoor carpert tournament serving two 128-player draws would be a b*tch to do).


Our Summer Vacation doesn't start until the week before Christmas. I'm sure the players would love to play a grand slam then :rolleyes:

WF4EVER
Jan 9th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Like many here I disagree with the starter of this thread. Some good points have been raised about the training and scheduling by the players, pressuring by the WTA to make more money for them (whether some of these players are injured or exhausted) and shortening the hard court season because of the grind it puts on the players' bodies.

King's idea that the longer off-season would help the players recuperate better may be true in some cases but players don't wait until near the end of season to get injured; they fall to injury at all times of the year and truly if some of these players would take the time off to heal PROPERLY then many of them could avoid re-injuring themselves later on in the season. There have been too many instances of players coming off the DL when they have not allowed themselves to heal properly and others where injured players have continued to play with injury until it puts them on the DL for very long periods of time.

While I think the best solution to this problem should be fairly easy, players just scheduling their tournaments better, it never workds out that easily because there's money and their livelihood involved. Some players are forced to show up to "support the Tour" and others are forced to play because if they don't play a lot they can't support themselves.

I think, in all fairness to the players, the WTA might try to space the tournaments out a bit. If it means ending the season a little later or just giving a shorter "vacation" to the players, then so be it, but if the tournaments were spaced out better maybe the players would have a lot more recuperating time between tournaments and could even end the season/year feeling less burnt out than they usually would.

Experimentee
Jan 9th, 2005, 12:40 PM
Its not only the AO that has injurys, in just about every Slam there are top players injured lately. People only make a big deal of it in the AO because they can use the excuse that the off season needs to be longer. Another factor is that Australia is far from where most players live, so they'd be more likely to make the trip to somewhere in Europe rather than Australia, even if they were injured to the same degree.

~ The Leopard ~
Jan 9th, 2005, 01:17 PM
If anyone was wondering about the meaning of the expression "deja vu" tell 'em to come and have a look at this thread.

Volcana
Jan 9th, 2005, 02:23 PM
Looking at the injury lists and the constant updates on who is next to drop out of the Australian Open, it seems there is barely any player who is injury free. I think the off season should be longer so all the women can be recuperated and ready to play this event, its a grand slam and should have all the worlds best. The entry list for the AO is looking more and more pathetic, as players keep on withdrawing, no justine, no kim, looks like no jen or mary, even amelie may withdraw!The off-season doesn't need to be longer. The players need to take more responsibility for their health, instead os chasing every available dollar, ruble and franc. What you're calling 'the off-season' is actuall full of exos for many players. They make a lot of maney doing them. But they aren't home resting. Tennis doesn't have ANY off-season, and it won't. NOt as long as anyone witha million dollars can b\put on an exo and expect to get players. This is a direct result of tennis players being the best known female athletes in the world. There IS a parallel, and it's familiar to a lot of you. How much of a REAL off-season is there in figure skating. I mean time when a skater isn't doing exos or tours or competing?