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Pureracket
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:12 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

slydevil6142
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:14 PM
Sharapova is def taking pages out of the sernea wiliams handbook haha good to see the younger generation copy those before them

Dementinator
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:28 PM
Well it was to be expected I mean how can anyone lose to Elena Dementieva eh!! and I mean Masha is aparantly unbeatable ,right ok , the Titanic was unsinkable but that didnt stop it sinking.
The only Difference i can see between those two coments was having watched wimbledon 2004 final I can Honestly say totally unbiased that Serena WAS only playing about 40% her best ,simple as that whereas today I really feel the Better player on the day won ,the world number 6 ,not so unimaginable is it?? I mean Lena now has some kind of a serve now, so of course shes dangerous and Masha should try being a little more gracious in Defeat NO player is unbeatable NO match is ever a dead cert ,To answer the question posted earlier by someone on GM "who can stop Masha" well just about anyone playing on the tour actually ,if they are having a good day and Masha aint!! I mean Mashona Washington did didnt she!! so Masha grow up and just admit u were beaten by a better player today!

serenafan08
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:29 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

Exactly. I agree 100% with your point of view. It shows that the scrutiny that Serena gets is highly unjustified.

Natasc
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:38 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."

I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?

Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

It's not ok don't even to Masha and not to Serena
The both players alwyas have some excuse on hand after a lose
Like I said many times: "I think that not that hard said that someone was better than you and that someone beat you"

But should say that I will give you a 3 for this comment...a -3

goldenlox
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:39 PM
Maria was 3 out of 10 at this press conference:lol:

Pureracket
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Honestly, I think that Sharapova is entitled to give her own fair assessment of the match. If she thinks she played poorly, she may have. I just don't understand why it seems like this comment is being handled differently.

Is there a double standard?

GoDominique
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Pureracket, show me a post where someone says "What Maria said is OK, what Serena said is wrong". :)

Teemu
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?



I agree that players should rather congratulate their opponent for playing well than say they themselves played poorly. However, I also think Maria could have said about anything and it would still be wrong for some of you.

Natasc
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Just one word to Maria...better, one pic:
http://img81.exs.cx/img81/2576/mashadementinated2ka.jpg
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

pav
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:48 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

I admit I have had a few digs at Serena for doing exactly the same sort of quotes that are now flowing out of the mouth of the Mashamiracle, the only difference is Serena usually works in percentages, whereas the Mashameter is doing marks out of ten

Pureracket
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:48 PM
Pureracket, show me a post where someone says "What Maria said is OK, what Serena said is wrong". :)GoDom,
The "silence" of the same mobsters that protested Serena's comments is where the "double standard" is.

Julia1968
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:48 PM
Pureracket, show me a post where someone says "What Maria said is OK, what Serena said is wrong". :)

Don't ask it that....you are being WAY too logical.

Volcana
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?Look it's been what, five or six years of this? What are you confused about? A lot of the negative comments Serena gets are because of race, the people saying them just don't want to admit it. Remember all the posts about not liking 'power tennis' being the objection to the Williams sisters? Don't see many of those either anymore.

The board is no different than the rest of the world. There IS a double standard, but so what? Serena's not hurting. If she retires right now she's one of the ten best female singles players in the open era. And while you have every right to point out the double standard, don't expect it to change, or for that matter, for certain people to even admit it exists. And for the love of God, if you're actually confused about this, you haven't been paying attention.

The comments themselves, incidentally, are fine in the case of both players.

Julia1968
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:50 PM
I agree that players should rather congratulate their opponent for playing well than say they themselves played poorly. However, I also think Maria could have said about anything and it would still be wrong for some of you.

I agree.

I think this entire thread was begun with the intention of drawing negative attention to Maria with the footnote of discussing how Serena has been "wronged".

Seems pretty AOL'ish if you ask me.

Pureracket
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:50 PM
Julia,
I hope you are somehow trying to prove the pattern of posts that I have dealing with Maria Sharapova. Insult me all you would like, but it still doesn't mean that you have not told a blatant and boldfaced lie.

Are you a liar, Julia?

Jaime Bahena
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Let's see how many times Masha plays the "Even though I won, my tennis sucked.." card. I'm already tired of her, and shame on her for not being original enough to think of something new to say, other than to repeat what Serena's been saying for the last year.

Pureracket
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Look it's been what, five or six years of this? What are you confused about? A lot of the negative comments Serena gets are because of race, the people saying them just don't want to admit it. Remember all the posts about not liking 'power tennis' being the objection to the Williams sisters? Don't see many of those either anymore.

The board is no different than the rest of the world. There IS a double standard, but so what? Serena's not hurting. If she retires right now she's one of the ten best female singles players in the open era. And while you have every right to point out the double standard, don't expect it to change, or for that matter, for certain people to even admit it exists. And for the love of God, if you're actually confused about this, you haven't been paying attention.Volcana,
Thanks.

Julia1968
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Julia,
I hope you are somehow trying to prove the pattern of posts that I have dealing with Maria Sharapova. Insult me all you would like, but it still doesn't mean that you have not told a blatant and boldfaced lie.

Are you a liar, Julia?


OH! Lookie, lookie...

Someone got caught with their hands in the cookie jar!

Goodie, goodie! Giggles!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

veryborednow
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:58 PM
Whoever says it, it's tacky.

GoDominique
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:59 PM
GoDom,
The "silence" of the same mobsters that protested Serena's comments is where the "double standard" is.
Maybe they are silent because they haven't heard/read the comment? Just a thought.

Or maybe they just don't care, because there are more important things in life to protest against. :)

Pureracket
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:59 PM
OH! Lookie, lookie...

Someone got caught with their hands in the cookie jar!

Goodie, goodie! Giggles!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce::confused: What are you talking about? Please prove your post. That is all.

Joana
Jan 5th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Heartbreaking. :sad:

But in case you really are wondering why, it's because probably nobody has even seen that comment, because afterall this was just a meaningless exhibition. Now, when she makes a comment like that after AO semis or sth like that, watch the reaction of WtaWorld mob.

GoDominique
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:01 PM
Look it's been what, five or six years of this? What are you confused about? A lot of the negative comments Serena gets are because of race, the people saying them just don't want to admit it. Remember all the posts about not liking 'power tennis' being the objection to the Williams sisters? Don't see many of those either anymore.

The board is no different than the rest of the world. There IS a double standard, but so what? Serena's not hurting. If she retires right now she's one of the ten best female singles players in the open era. And while you have every right to point out the double standard, don't expect it to change, or for that matter, for certain people to even admit it exists. And for the love of God, if you're actually confused about this, you haven't been paying attention.

The comments themselves, incidentally, are fine in the case of both players.
Volcana, stick to posting your fascinating stats threads. Better for all. :)

Julia1968
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:01 PM
Let's see how many times Masha plays the "Even though I won, my tennis sucked.." card. I'm already tired of her, and shame on her for not being original enough to think of something new to say, other than to repeat what Serena's been saying for the last year.

So are you tired of what "Serena's been saying the last year" as well???? Or is your disdain directed solely at a 17 year old teenager????

I believe that repeating what another originally does is a sincere form of flattery.

Volcana
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Volcana, stick to posting your fascinating stats threads. Better for all. :)Well, once we're past OZ, and everybody's playing .... and the world comes to an end.:)

Teemu
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:09 PM
Heartbreaking. :sad:

But in case you really are wondering why, it's because probably nobody has even seen that comment, because afterall this was just a meaningless exhibition. Now, when she makes a comment like that after AO semis or sth like that, watch the reaction of WtaWorld mob.


Yeah, makes me wonder if the players would even remember what Maria or Serena has said when asked. One small, meaningless sentence to them, a huge, bottomless well of whiny and sad excuse for a conversation for us lifeless SOB's. ;)

faboozadoo15
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:11 PM
GoDom,
The "silence" of the same mobsters that protested Serena's comments is where the "double standard" is.
silence? there's already a thread on it. there have been people saying she shouldn't have said it. i agree.

the difference is that this is an exhibition where she criticized herself and also took something out of dementieva's win

vs

about 5 or 6 years of bogus excuses, "impostors", mystery illnesses, percentages, "notches", etc.

Julia1968
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:15 PM
Yeah, makes me wonder if the players would even remember what Maria or Serena has said when asked. One small, meaningless sentence to them, a huge, bottomless well of whiny and sad excuse for a conversation for us lifeless SOB's. ;)


LOL! Great post.

However, I think those who begin/author these types of threads are purposefully opening a can of worms and provoking negative responses.

In usenet discussions, its called "trolling".

Congratulations, PureRacket!

Calimero377
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Well it was to be expected I mean how can anyone lose to Elena Dementieva eh!! and I mean Masha is aparantly unbeatable ,right ok , the Titanic was unsinkable but that didnt stop it sinking.
The only Difference i can see between those two coments was having watched wimbledon 2004 final I can Honestly say totally unbiased that Serena WAS only playing about 40% her best ,simple as that whereas today I really feel the Better player on the day won ,the world number 6 ,not so unimaginable is it?? I mean Lena now has some kind of a serve now, so of course shes dangerous and Masha should try being a little more gracious in Defeat NO player is unbeatable NO match is ever a dead cert ,To answer the question posted earlier by someone on GM "who can stop Masha" well just about anyone playing on the tour actually ,if they are having a good day and Masha aint!! I mean Mashona Washington did didnt she!! so Masha grow up and just admit u were beaten by a better player today!

Yes, Demented played 7 on a scale from 1 to 10 and Sharapova played 3.
A 7-Dementieva is able to beat a 3-Sharapova. So Elena was the "better player today". Where's the problem? :confused:

waratahsrock
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Lets face it, maria played pretty poorly last night, and her comments reflect that. She doesnt go overboard with her comments. "I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three." What the hell is wrong with that, that was a good reflection, yes she could have congratulated elena. But really, who cares?
Do you all remember the comments serena made about her wimbledon loss? "it wasnt me playing that match"
Now that is arrogance.
And please, the majority of the time someone makes a critical comment of the Williams sisters, they are automatically assumed to be a racist pig! Get over yourselves!

Calimero377
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:22 PM
Look it's been what, five or six years of this? What are you confused about? A lot of the negative comments Serena gets are because of race, the people saying them just don't want to admit it. Remember all the posts about not liking 'power tennis' being the objection to the Williams sisters? Don't see many of those either anymore.

The board is no different than the rest of the world. There IS a double standard, but so what? Serena's not hurting. If she retires right now she's one of the ten best female singles players in the open era. And while you have every right to point out the double standard, don't expect it to change, or for that matter, for certain people to even admit it exists. And for the love of God, if you're actually confused about this, you haven't been paying attention.

The comments themselves, incidentally, are fine in the case of both players.

There are people who underestimate the Williamses because they are black. And there are people who overestimate them because they are black. So what?

With Graf it is different - there are only people who understimate her importance for the game because she is European (German at that!) ....

Natasc
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:23 PM
So...now I know where Masha learn those excuse....from her fans :haha:

Calimero377
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:24 PM
Lets face it, maria played pretty poorly last night, and her comments reflect that. She doesnt go overboard with her comments. "I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three." What the hell is wrong with that, that was a good reflection, yes she could have congratulated elena. But really, who cares?
Do you all remember the comments serena made about her wimbledon loss? "it wasnt me playing that match"
Now that is arrogance.
And please, the majority of the time someone makes a critical comment of the Williams sisters, they are automatically assumed to be a racist pig! Get over yourselves!


Racist pig!!!

Calimero377
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:25 PM
Racist pig!!!


;)

Alfie
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:33 PM
Did anyone see the match? Were there a ton of unforced errors from Maria or did Elena really force Maria into making errors?

franny
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:34 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

First of all, this is the first time I've seen the comment, and since you were probably the first to post it up, obviously no one else would have said anything about it already. Those who feel that Serena's comments were out of line feel the same way about Maria's comment. It's not who says it, it's what is said. I never like it when players say oh I only played 10% or whatnot. I'm a huge Masha fan but I still don't like its said and I'm dissapointed that she said it. There were people defending Serena when people ragged on her and there are people right now defending Maria. It's the same people. Show me one specific person who was not okay with Serena's comment and is okay with Maria's.

Dave B
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:34 PM
I for one have been critical of Serena for her infamous percentage comments. Not so much any one comment, but the frequency (after most any losses and a good number of wins). You know, if she is playing at 30% all the time, than clearly that 30% is more like her 90% or something....

Maria on the other hand might be making a fair judgement of her play...I really don't know. But I still don't really like her comment either. Dementieva is a great player. For me, if Maria felt she wasn't playing her best, saying that is sufficient. For example, "I wasn't at my best, and Elena is such a great player that you really have to be at your top level to have a chance at the match." I think that is a much more tactful way to deliver basically the same message.

Regardless, I am glad that niether Serena nor Masha take this approach, because that is what makes them characters that are interesting, whether you like them or not, but that still doesn't make the comments gracious and polite.

waratahsrock
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Did anyone see the match? Were there a ton of unforced errors from Maria or did Elena really force Maria into making errors?
I saw the match, and unfortunately there were a far too many unforced errors by maria.
However elenas serve really did impress me, and she deserved to win.

Jaime Bahena
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:39 PM
So are you tired of what "Serena's been saying the last year" as well???? Or is your disdain directed solely at a 17 year old teenager????

I believe that repeating what another originally does is a sincere form of flattery.



I'm tired of both Serena and Masha.

SjuTjuD
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:42 PM
Masha's just being her usual disrespectful self :shrug: Expect more of the same.

Teemu
Jan 5th, 2005, 07:51 PM
Masha's just being her usual disrespectful self :shrug: Expect more of the same.

Naah I won't, but I am expecting more bs posts like this one. :)

deep bass
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:05 PM
I for one have been critical of Serena for her infamous percentage comments. Not so much any one comment, but the frequency (after most any losses and a good number of wins). You know, if she is playing at 30% all the time, than clearly that 30% is more like her 90% or something....

Maria on the other hand might be making a fair judgement of her play...I really don't know. But I still don't really like her comment either. Dementieva is a great player. For me, if Maria felt she wasn't playing her best, saying that is sufficient. For example, "I wasn't at my best, and Elena is such a great player that you really have to be at your top level to have a chance at the match." I think that is a much more tactful way to deliver basically the same message.

Regardless, I am glad that niether Serena nor Masha take this approach, because that is what makes them characters that are interesting, whether you like them or not, but that still doesn't make the comments gracious and polite.


Yup. I agree.

veryborednow
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:29 PM
OK, I'm not going to get in the way of the Serena vs. Maria bashing, it's the new Graf/Seles thing, I get it.

Regardless of the player, it's lazy. And probably a result of having to disect and justify every match you play to a press who ask unoriginal questions. It would be nice for the top players to credit their opponents, but I'm going to see it as a reflection of the pressure both the players are under.

It's an excuse. By exaggerating how badly they played they're shifting the control of the outcome onto themselves which probably helps them to deal with a loss that in their mind shouldn't have happened. Or whatever. I'd love to know why Serena continually plays below her best, and Maria this time, rather than an assessment of the level. I can work out the level myself.

alwayshingis
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:34 PM
Exactly. I agree 100% with your point of view. It shows that the scrutiny that Serena gets is highly unjustified.

The scruntiny of Serena isn't highly unjustified. You can't behave like she does when you win. No matter who it is, whether it be Serena or Masha or Amelie (no, wait, Amelie would never act like that :angel: )

But there's a difference in that Masha didn't win her match. So it isn't really that disrespectful to Dementieva.

kodeRED
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:43 PM
i just want to point out why i think many people are upset at maria's comments.
after the USO final Elena who we all know was hurtwas very respectful and nice and said that Sveta played amazing and there was nothing that she could do...
and so we expect this type of humility and graciousness from players and many do give it ( not just elena of course.. i don't want to be biased,and even elena would often make comments like these)
but we do acknowledge that maria is young and very proud and she has some right to be ... most players when they are young say disrespectful things and some even do it when they r older .. it is just something personal.. but we know that masha is a nice girl who wants to be friendly so i am sure that in the future she will stop saying things like this

Mathijs
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Just one word to Maria...better, one pic:
http://img81.exs.cx/img81/2576/mashadementinated2ka.jpg
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

good one Nat!!!!!!! :lol:

how did you get it done :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

VeeReeDavJCap81
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:52 PM
If I was these players I wouldn't give ANY post match interviews. So then people could shut the f**k up. (And still people would have something to say) Players like Maria and Serena will ALWAYS be scrutinized, because they have so many naysayers. I personally do not think there is anything wrong with saying you played bad after losing. Obviously you did play bad...bad meaning not good enough to win.

jacobruiz
Jan 5th, 2005, 08:59 PM
silence? there's already a thread on it. there have been people saying she shouldn't have said it. i agree.

the difference is that this is an exhibition where she criticized herself and also took something out of dementieva's win

vs

about 5 or 6 years of bogus excuses, "impostors", mystery illnesses, percentages, "notches", etc.

:worship:

I've read many comments from Williams fans saying Maria's career can't even be compared to Serena's until Maria equals or exceeds Serena's record. Since this is Masha's first "offense", I say we lay off until she commits about 100 more!:lol:

switz
Jan 5th, 2005, 09:00 PM
maybe a slight difference would be that serena says it in real tournaments where people actually go to the website and read the interviews.

i'm sure if sharapova said those things after losing the Australian Open final then people probably would have been on her with more eagerness. this was an exhibition - who cares about it or what she has to say about it.

i don't doubt some say things about serena because they are racist but at the same time there are plenty of people who don't like sharapova (myself included - not passionately enough though to care about something like this).

the double standards line has been thrown around here forever and to a certain extant it is true. the difference here however is 1) sharapova said it at a tournament which doesn't mean anything and gets little attention 2) sharapova is nowhere nearly as dominant on tour as serena ever was so there isn't that feeling of "she always wins and then makes excuses whenever she doesn't"

DEETHELICK
Jan 5th, 2005, 09:02 PM
I fins it interesting that she said it as she has never made comments like this before. And only had made it towards Elena. Whom she has a bit of 'history' with.

It could just be a petty, bitchy comment towards Elena. No harm, Elena won :)

Cyandream
Jan 5th, 2005, 09:04 PM
I admit I have had a few digs at Serena for doing exactly the same sort of quotes that are now flowing out of the mouth of the Mashamiracle, the only difference is Serena usually works in percentages, whereas the Mashameter is doing marks out of ten
So basically you are saying Serena plays at 20% and Maria at 30%? BTW, I do think it's hard for top players to admit they were outplayed. It's not in their nature ( of course their are exceptions.) But it's just that attitude that could explain why they are the ones playing and raking in the big bucks, and we are the ones posting on tennis forums, making judgements. I for one have never had a problem with Rena's or Maria's comments. Besides if every one was always polite and gave credit etc, what in the world would we have to talk about?

pinkfrog
Jan 5th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Besides if every one was always polite and gave credit etc, what in the world would we have to talk about?

LOL!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Gowza
Jan 5th, 2005, 09:22 PM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

i'm a bit of a masha fan and i havent heard her say anything like this before but in seeing this i do agree with you, although not having see the match maybe it is true, maybe it isnt. cant really say there is a double standard with serena unless you actually saw the match and think the comments are an incorrect assessment of her game in which case i would definately agree with you. however their possibly may be a double standard their. im serena wasnt giving a fair assessment of her game with wimbledon, i dont think you should be asking why maria can give a fair assessment of her game and serena not because i dont think they are giving 'fair' assessments.

griffin
Jan 5th, 2005, 09:23 PM
2) sharapova is nowhere nearly as dominant on tour as serena ever was so there isn't that feeling of "she always wins and then makes excuses whenever she doesn't"

We shall see. I do think Maria will come in for a lot more flack as people get tired of her she gets more exposure - although Serena was getting hammered for making comments like that long before she became a dominant force.

Still, I tend to think the demographics of who's dishing the criticism with change with the target.

faboozadoo15
Jan 5th, 2005, 10:41 PM
So basically you are saying Serena plays at 20% and Maria at 30%? BTW, I do think it's hard for top players to admit they were outplayed. It's not in their nature ( of course their are exceptions.) But it's just that attitude that could explain why they are the ones playing and raking in the big bucks, and we are the ones posting on tennis forums, making judgements. I for one have never had a problem with Rena's or Maria's comments. Besides if every one was always polite and gave credit etc, what in the world would we have to talk about?
i think theres a lot that is taken on when you're a top top player. we say "hey, she's got spunk" when someone like sesil makes crazy remarks (ranking nowhere near the top) but we expect the best players who perhaps have the most talent to be humble in their losses and to not gloat in their wins and it's really against their nature. i ADMIT completely that i have been hard on a lot of players, especially serena, for things they said that i find inappropriate. i just don't like it. i wouldn't like it if monica said those things. it's like nails on a chalkboard to me. but i do realize that i'm not them, and i'm not living up to their expectations everyday on a tennis court. it's easy for me to read an interview and say "she really shouldn't have said that..." but i guess it's also easy for them to show the same self control that i do when i'm confronted with an ex or something :haha:

all in all, i see these comments as bad, but if it's as bad as they get, i can live with it. if we all read interviews by players of other sports, these comments would seem like nothing. but to me, tennis isn't just any other sport.

yes, i'm on the fence...
bad maria

crazillo
Jan 5th, 2005, 10:41 PM
A german proverb says: "Don't make a mosquito to a elephant." ;)

harloo
Jan 5th, 2005, 11:10 PM
I always defend Serena's comments about her level, so I am not going to discredit Maria for saying this but the reaction from some posters here speaks volumes about the double standard. :rolleyes: :mad:

jacobruiz
Jan 5th, 2005, 11:43 PM
Excuse me, but as far as this double standard thing goes, why don't we try to compare two things which are alike? There exist double standards in almost everything. Serena, however, has been known since she first started playing professionally, as someone who does not suffer losses well. This trait has helped her in many ways to achieve success

But it has also caused her to make excuses not just for every loss but for many of her wins as well! She just can't seem to play well enough to please herself. This has been ongoing for 6 or 7 years.

Maria up to now has always been very gracious (not that Serena isn't) and usually says that she has played well in her wins and comments on how well her opponent played when she loses. Check her interviews if you have any doubt. So if she says she didn't play well at an exhibition maybe we shouldn't immediately jump on her back.

Frankly, I'm tired of seeing Maria held up as some sort of litmus test for racism. Why don't people with a racist agenda pick on somebody else for a change? And you people who just want to be mean, remember that Maria is just a 17-year old girl who is trying very hard to be a successful tennis player. A lot of Maria's fans have been following her for a long time and don't understand all this hatred aimed at her.

cartmancop
Jan 5th, 2005, 11:50 PM
I'm tired of both Serena and Masha.

Yep! I love watching both of them play but both ALWAYS have an excuse for the loss of every point, game, set, or match. :rolleyes: I don't want to just single these two out b/c all the players do it, but these 2 are probably the worst about it.

Greenout
Jan 5th, 2005, 11:57 PM
I don't know what the big deal is here? Did ED say she's insulted
by this comment?

Serena on the other hand said alot of things like this and players
have openly voiced their displeasure at the lack of gracious
personal match play review. Maria to my knowledge hasn't gotten
to other players goats for her post match "interviews", mainly it
was Yuri and the leaving tournaments ASAP after she loses w/ out
telling anyone and finishing up her duties.

Lemonskin.
Jan 5th, 2005, 11:57 PM
But what if a player honestly DOES play badly? Are they not allowed to say it?

Junex
Jan 5th, 2005, 11:59 PM
Pureracket, show me a post where someone says "What Maria said is OK, what Serena said is wrong". :)


Yeah you should at least show an evidence, pureracket!

Its not even a day had pass since she said this and you are already crying foul?
I am a sharapova fan, a big one, and i say its really not right for her to say this, a win is a win and a lost is a lost. she should learn to be modest in defeat.

BTW, it is not even a complete qoute.
the thread starter is just being picky trying to incite chaos between the usual suspects! :lol: :tape:

Teemu
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:08 AM
I am a sharapova fan, a big one, and i say its really not right for her to say this, a win is a win and a lost is a lost. she should learn to be modest in defeat.

Hmpf, I think she has been modest in defeat. No professional is in a good mood after a loss, especially one as passionate as she is about the game. Maybe she was a bit over critical about her performance. Anyway, this shouldn't be, and is not such a big deal, I can't believe I'm even replying this...NOOooooo...oh hell, there it goes.

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:12 AM
i think theres a lot that is taken on when you're a top top player. we say "hey, she's got spunk" when someone like sesil makes crazy remarks (ranking nowhere near the top) but we expect the best players who perhaps have the most talent to be humble in their losses and to not gloat in their wins and it's really against their nature.

YES.

I don't really care what a player says after the match. I think it would be more fun if there was more outright trash-talking and bitch-fighting. But the only double standard I have is in favouring the younger, lower-ranked players. When Sesil mouths off, it's hella fun and kinda cute because she's only 15 or whatever. If she ends up winning Slams at 20 and is STILL saying the same sort of shit... that'll be a massive no-no. I don't have any problem with journeywomen talking shit either. Neither do I have a problem with any player making bitchy personal remarks, because it's entertaining.

However, I do think that top 10 players like Maria (and Serena) should be able to give credit to their opponents, in victory and in defeat, and especially to clearly lesser opponents. The whole world knows that they're über-amazing superwomen; it doesn't hurt to be a gracious champion.

Venus is a really good example of someone whose attitude has always been appropriate: she talked a lot of shit when she was a kid, and it was very funny and I'd never criticise her for it, but almost as soon as she became a Slam champion she metamorphosed into this incredibly gracious, dignified woman who managed to project confidence without putting down opponents whom everybody knew were lesser players than her.

Natasc
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:15 AM
Yeah you should at least show an evidence, pureracket!

Its not even a day had pass since she said this and you are already crying foul?
I am a sharapova fan, a big one, and i say its really not right for her to say this, a win is a win and a lost is a lost. she should learn to be modest in defeat.
For a Sharapova fan you very polite :eek:
It's nice hear this
Iam also a Sharapova fan and I didn't like to hear what she says
She was very mad, she don't even sign pics and "shake" hands with Lena, she just go away...,.
Someone needs to teach her a litle bit of "humility"
Momo (Mauresmo) will be a great teacher ;)

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:15 AM
I always defend Serena's comments about her level, so I am not going to discredit Maria for saying this but the reaction from some posters here speaks volumes about the double standard. :rolleyes: :mad:

Which posters? Seriously dude, pretty much everyone in this thread has either said they don't mind anyone saying this sort of thing, or they mind equally whether it's Serena or Maria. It's gone two pages so enough people have commented. As for the silent ones who apparently mean so much, it's an exhibition for chrissakes. They probably don't care. If Sharapova had said this after getting hammered in a Slam final... a lot of people would be all over her, including many who would defend Serena in the same situation. Would that be a double standard?

Teemu
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:20 AM
For a Sharapova fan you very polite :eek:
It's nice hear this
Iam also a Sharapova fan and I didn't like to hear what she says
She was very mad, she don't even sign pics and "shake" hands with Lena, she just go away...,.
Someone needs to teach her a litle bit of "humility"
Momo (Mauresmo) will be a great teacher ;)

Or maybe someone should teach you something about being a 'fan'. Not saying you have to put up with everything your favourite does, but to come down on her like you have on several threads it's not like you're very supportive or understanding. There are plenty of ppl out there who love to stomp on her for every little reason, or to make up one if there isn't any, so she doesn't necessarily need her fans to criticize her on such a meaningless thing. Not that it's my business. Call yourself a fan if you like. I for one understand her tiredness and frustration. I don't expect her to be perfect, I still like her.

Natasc
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:38 AM
Or maybe someone should teach you something about being a 'fan'. Not saying you have to put up with everything your favourite does, but to come down on her like you have on several threads it's not like you're very supportive or understanding. There are plenty of ppl out there who love to stomp on her for every little reason, or to make up one if there isn't any, so she doesn't necessarily need her fans to criticize her on such a meaningless thing. Not that it's my business. Call yourself a fan if you like. I for one understand her tiredness and frustration. I don't expect her to be perfect, I still like her.
I love Lena and Momo more than Masha
So, if Masha play against one of those I will cheer for Lena or Momo
And...please, that's no excuse for bad comments
I think that some players should be more polite after a lose, cause, you can't win all the matchs...don't even Steffi did this
And Maria has always an excuse, it's a kind of funny see her excuses
But she will learn one day...I hope :p

Philbo
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:49 AM
Volcana, stick to posting your fascinating stats threads. Better for all. :)
Stick to posting your inane game threads. Better for all :)

Teemu
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:51 AM
I love Lena and Momo more than Masha
So, if Masha play against one of those I will cheer for Lena or Momo
And...please, that's no excuse for bad comments
I think that some players should be more polite after a lose, cause, you can't win all the matchs...don't even Steffi did this
And Maria has always an excuse, it's a kind of funny see her excuses
But she will learn one day...I hope :p

Why bring up the word 'excuse'. It may not be an excuse but an explanation. Something that would make you understand her situation and thus not make it worse.
I like ElenaD too, and Mauresmo, they're both great players. I also like Davenport, respect both Williams', used to cheer Seles while se played, missing Justine, so Maria isn't my ONLY favourite, she's just my biggest one since she has impressed me, and I'm not that easily impressed. It remains to be seen how long she lasts, hopefully LONG, but I for one am not willing to dump crap on her because of something like this. Even if I wasn't her fan.

Natasc
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:56 AM
Why bring up the word 'excuse'. It may not be an excuse but an explanation. Something that would make you understand her situation and thus not make it worse.
I like ElenaD too, and Mauresmo, they're both great players. I also like Davenport, respect both Williams', used to cheer Seles while se played, missing Justine, so Maria isn't my ONLY favourite, she's just my biggest one since she has impressed me, and I'm not that easily impressed. It remains to be seen how long she lasts, hopefully LONG, but I for one am not willing to dump crap on her because of something like this. Even if I wasn't her fan.
And me too and I didn't "crap" her...I'm just showing the facts..what she say was ugly don't you think?
Just say "yes" or "no"

jimmyc
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:57 AM
And me too and I didn't "crap" her...I'm just showing the facts..what she say was ugly don't you think?
Just say "yes" or "no"

ugly? of course NO

Teemu
Jan 6th, 2005, 01:01 AM
And me too and I didn't "crap" her...I'm just showing the facts..what she say was ugly don't you think?
Just say "yes" or "no"

And I didn't say you did "crap" her...and if you can read between the lines I already said "no".

Natasc
Jan 6th, 2005, 01:02 AM
ugly? of course NO
Of course..it's always good make excuses
It' beautiful...just the prettiest thing in the world...
I'm tired to discuss this... even the journalist say that that was an excuse...I'm just tired, open your eyes and see the truth
Like my mum said: "The worst blind man is that that doesn't want see"

I just hope that you get my point of view and don't give me bad reputations like "Atrixo" did...please I trust you, be a litle more mature and try to understend my opnion..we can't all have the same opnion, can we?

Teemu
Jan 6th, 2005, 01:08 AM
Of course..it's always good make excuses
It' beautiful...just the prettiest thing in the world...
I'm tired to discuss this... even the journalist say that that was an excuse...I'm just tired, open your eyes and see the truth
Like my mum said: "The worst blind man is that that doesn't want see"

Funny to quote your mum like that and then say something as appalling as "even the journalist say", the ones that make up the truth as they please just to sell pieces of paper? Oh yeah I know them. They're the ones to tell you about the truth and blind men and all. I've got my eyes open just fine, I already stated I don't think Maria is perfect, no one is, but I bet you already knew that. You're just making a nice speech in the end with close to nothing to do with the truth. Well, if you truly believe what you say, then I can hardly change your mind, but I for one don't take this so seriously and am NOT going to waste my time (not that it's that precious especially at this hour) to discuss about this subject anymore. You have your view of the matter, I have mine. It's irrelevant who is "right" it seems.

edit:
And about the badrep and maturity, you're kidding me, right? :)

Julia1968
Jan 6th, 2005, 01:44 AM
Yeah you should at least show an evidence, pureracket!

BTW, it is not even a complete qoute.
the thread starter is just being picky trying to incite chaos between the usual suspects! :lol: :tape:

So, you noticed that as well. Oddly enough, it picked Maria Sharapova as the subject matter.

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 01:50 AM
Julia,
You can ally yourself with whoever or whatever you want to ally yourself. The fact is that you still showed know evidence of the statement that you made about my pattern of Sharapova posts.Your way of insulting other posters in order to try to make yourself seem significant has gotten old, and I suspect that most of the posters are tired of you already. Julia, are you a liar?

Julia1968
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:05 AM
Julia,
You can ally yourself with whoever or whatever you want to ally yourself. The fact is that you still showed know evidence of the statement that you made about my pattern of Sharapova posts.Your way of insulting other posters in order to try to make yourself seem significant has gotten old, and I suspect that most of the posters are tired of you already. Julia, are you a liar?

I think you starting this thread is indicative of your personal disdain of Sharapova, regardless of your ability to call others "liars" and such because you got caught red-handed.

Instead of just admitting it, you continue to deny your actions. Of course, we all know that actions speak louder than words.

Just as I said before, I don't think you are a liar, but incredibly stupid to think that people will turn away from logic to support your persistent denial.

I have nothing to prove. You provided all the evidence in the world.

Lemme guess. Somehow you've been "wronged". Poor baby. If you scream it loud enough, you might actually believe it after a while.

Shoo, troll! Shoo!

jacobruiz
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:18 AM
And...please, that's no excuse for bad comments
I think that some players should be more polite after a lose, cause, you can't win all the matchs...don't even Steffi did this
And Maria has always an excuse, it's a kind of funny see her excuses
But she will learn one day...I hope :p

What were these bad, ugly comments again? "I didn't play well - If I had to give myself points I would give myself a 3 out of 10?" THIS is so terrible for you to go on and on about?

And Masha always has an excuse? No she doesn't! When she wins she is almost always happy with her play and when she loses she says things like " I know I can't always win - I will get better- I'm only 17, I will improve my game, etc". These are not excuses, they are mature, intelligent responses for a young girl and if she feels she didn't play well at a damn exhibition I don't see the big deal.

And your faves are Elena and Momo? Ever pay attention to some of the things they have said?

switz
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:35 AM
I think you starting this thread is indicative of your personal disdain of Sharapova, regardless of your ability to call others "liars" and such because you got caught red-handed.

Instead of just admitting it, you continue to deny your actions. Of course, we all know that actions speak louder than words.

Just as I said before, I don't think you are a liar, but incredibly stupid to think that people will turn away from logic to support your persistent denial.

I have nothing to prove. You provided all the evidence in the world.

Lemme guess. Somehow you've been "wronged". Poor baby. If you scream it loud enough, you might actually believe it after a while.

Shoo, troll! Shoo!

i don't think he showed disdain for sharapova - he was showing disdain for on this board who allow the so called "double standard"

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:39 AM
I think you starting this thread is indicative of your personal disdain of Sharapova, regardless of your ability to call others "liars" and such because you got caught red-handed.

Instead of just admitting it, you continue to deny your actions. Of course, we all know that actions speak louder than words.

Just as I said before, I don't think you are a liar, but incredibly stupid to think that people will turn away from logic to support your persistent denial.

I have nothing to prove. You provided all the evidence in the world.

Lemme guess. Somehow you've been "wronged". Poor baby. If you scream it loud enough, you might actually believe it after a while.

Shoo, troll! Shoo!More and more, you're showing yourself for the poster you really are, and I'm afraid that's not good. Still you can, in no way, prove the assertion that there is a pattern of posts of any kind of mine involving Maria Sharapova; in fact, Julia, if you had done any research on this board before your attacks, you'd see that I'm VERY complimentary of Maria Sharapova. I was simply questioning the double standards of the board.

You can use whatever fallacy you'd like in order to avoid the question of the statement you made. This thread nor any other threads of mine show disdain for any player; however, you have said that there is a pattern of my posts for Maria Sharapova. Please show me. Julia, should you admit that you are a liar?

Volcana
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:51 AM
I don't know what the big deal is here? Did ED say she's insulted by this comment?Would she? I can't remember Dementieva saying anything negative about another player since a comment Venus Williams. ANd even that, if memory serves, was hardly a diss. More of an 'I'm better' than 'she's worse'. I can't find the quote. Something about mental strength. Point is, she doesn't much badmouth other players.

What interests me is something I'll never know. If she IS offended, what will she say when the next Russian Fed Cup team is selected?

faboozadoo15
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:53 AM
And your faves are Elena and Momo? Ever pay attention to some of the things they have said?
i was wondering the same thing.

players at the top or who are famous get more scrutiny.
i remember monica seles receiving roses from a fan upon entering a stadium before the match, and she didn't know what to do with them, so she gave one to her opponent (i forget who) and this led to people thinking monica gave flowers to her opponents before a match to soften the blow of completely obliterating them on court.

faboozadoo15
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:56 AM
Would she? I can't remember Dementieva saying anything negative about another player since a comment Venus Williams. ANd even that, if memory serves, was hardly a diss. More of an 'I'm better' than 'she's worse'. I can't find the quote. Something about mental strength. Point is, she doesn't much badmouth other players.

What interests me is something I'll never know. If she IS offended, what will she say when the next Russian Fed Cup team is selected?
i doubt elena would care. she'd poorlly think...

"well she better play better next time cuz this was just exhibition dementieva!" lol
or
"i know what it's like to play at 30%... i do it about 1/3 of the time... i hate it when it's windy!"
or
"yea, maria did play like crap... and so did i. i won. end of story. this is an exhibition."

moby
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:57 AM
when she loses she says things like " I know I can't always win - I will get better- I'm only 17, I will improve my game, etc".
Looks like Maria can't please anyone. Surprise.
When she loses and say that it's because she's 17 (as above), people say she's playing up her age. I think that's fine actually, but Maria-haters think she's making excuses :confused:
When she makes catty comments like Serena, she's arrogant like Serena.
Looks like Maria should just clam up at every press conference till the end of time.

Oh, they'd say she's anti-social, and overtly private then. Oops.

Seriously, Maria hasn't exactly insulted every top player of her generation just yet. I say we put her on probation before we condemn her to hell. What say you? ;)

Doc
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:00 AM
According to eyewitness reports on the other thread, Masha did play poorly in the final sets. So the comment is apt.

In any event, there is considerable needle between Masha and Elena. And Masha is not going to be all over Elena after what she has said about Masha over the last year. I have no doubt that both went all-out in this match - as they did at Zurich. And Elena may look pretty, but she is super strong, and hits the ball as hard as anyone, so is very hard to beat when she is playing well.

ginger_fish668
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:04 AM
Look, I was there, and Maria did not play her best. She was thrown by a couple of bad calls and a boy who threw a ball at her during the match. :p I'm not trying to take anything away from Elena, whom I also like and played very well. But I'm just trying to be fair. :)

SpremPierceLover
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:07 AM
Julia now your way to unlogical :eek: ...but it proves ... russian count backwards...thus Maria gives good ratings even if she's winning :hysteric: :crying2: OH! Lookie, lookie...Someone got caught with their hands in the cookie jar! Goodie, goodie! Giggles!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Greenout
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:23 AM
Would she? I can't remember Dementieva saying anything negative about another player since a comment Venus Williams. ANd even that, if memory serves, was hardly a diss. More of an 'I'm better' than 'she's worse'. I can't find the quote. Something about mental strength. Point is, she doesn't much badmouth other players.

What interests me is something I'll never know. If she IS offended, what will she say when the next Russian Fed Cup team is selected?

This is what's odd about this thread theme to me? If ED
wasn't insulted, are we suppose to? I'm not bothered by it.
She looked tired in Chiang Mai- I hardly doubt the comment
was meant as a diss nor a defensive answer to a post match
review. What was Sharpy to say.."I'm sooo tired because of
my hectic exhibition schedule..damn you Dad and tournament
organizers!@ and especially you Elena!". :haha:

ED's a smart girl. She'll take the win- as a personal win/win
for herself and not particulary knit pick about Sharpy. Now
if this was the Vampire, I'm sure she would've looked for something
to jump on. ;)

ginger_fish668
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:29 AM
This is what's odd about this thread theme to me? If ED
wasn't insulted, are we suppose to? I'm not bothered by it.
She looked tired in Chiang Mai- I hardly doubt the comment
was meant as a diss nor a defensive answer to a post match
review. What was Sharpy to say.."I'm sooo tired because of
my hectic exhibition schedule..damn you Dad and tournament
organizers!@ and especially you Elena!". :haha:

ED's a smart girl. She'll take the win- as a personal win/win
for herself and not particulary or nit pick about Sharpy. Now
if this was the Vampire, I'm sure she would've look for something
to jump on. ;)


I agree. I really doubt Elena would mind it much. Sharapova also acknowledged that Elena got a couple of bad calls as well. :)

Stamp Paid
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:30 AM
What an arrogant bitch. :)

<BTW, I'm just being funny. This is just what I see when Serena says something .>

Oh yeah, but this is just an exhibition, so somehow words don't mean as much. :)

Circe
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:33 AM
looks like masha's picked up some press conference tips as well from her opponents along the way. its just as much in bad taste for her as it is for serena to say that if you ask me but what can one do about it? the precedent's more or less been set.
i doubt elena d cares much either way.

Stamp Paid
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:38 AM
But wow, even at 30%, (OR 3/10, WHATEVER) IT STILL TOOK ELENA THREE SETS TO BEAT Masha! Wow.

Jakeev
Jan 6th, 2005, 04:39 AM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?

Well here it is folks, the first crap post of 2005! What the hell is your problem? Maria gets enough grief on here that you have to insight silly, unwanted arguments.

So people who don't like Serena lament about her boo fucking hoo. Grow up would you......

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 04:47 AM
Well here it is folks, the first crap post of 2005! What the hell is your problem? Maria gets enough grief on here that you have to insight silly, unwanted arguments.

So people who don't like Serena lament about her boo fucking hoo. Grow up would you......Well, here it is folks, Jakeev @ his judgemental, condescending and scathing best.

If you stepped outside of your idiocy long enough, you would realize that this thread has not as much to do with Maria Sharapova as it does the double standard that I'm discussing. If you take this as a dig against Maria Sharapova, fine, but that's your own problem. Your ignorance and misunderstanding of my intentions are not surprising, though.

If that glass house in which you are living allows growth, then I think YOU are the one who should consider a dose of maturity.

Dave B
Jan 6th, 2005, 05:12 AM
So basically you are saying Serena plays at 20% and Maria at 30%? BTW, I do think it's hard for top players to admit they were outplayed. It's not in their nature ( of course their are exceptions.) But it's just that attitude that could explain why they are the ones playing and raking in the big bucks, and we are the ones posting on tennis forums, making judgements. I for one have never had a problem with Rena's or Maria's comments. Besides if every one was always polite and gave credit etc, what in the world would we have to talk about?

While I agree that hunger, motivation, and self-belief (e.g. I can beat anyone if I play my best) are neccessary, that doesn't mean that one should bring it out in a press interview. I see no reason why what anyone says to the media MUST reflect their attitude....to me this isn't about what Serena or Maria think. It is about being tactful and polite.

On that note, I totally agree with the last thing you say. I may disagree with what Sesil says in terms of manners, but:
a) She is only human and occasionally has moments of imperfection :eek:
b) I find that although her comments are way rude, they make the sport fun and exciting, give us all something to talk about, and makeher a kick ass bitch. Now if you like bitches, than praise comments like these, but that doesn't make them gracious or classy....their bitchy, which can still be way cool.

Jakeev
Jan 6th, 2005, 10:14 AM
Well, here it is folks, Jakeev @ his judgemental, condescending and scathing best.

If you stepped outside of your idiocy long enough, you would realize that this thread has not as much to do with Maria Sharapova as it does the double standard that I'm discussing. If you take this as a dig against Maria Sharapova, fine, but that's your own problem. Your ignorance and misunderstanding of my intentions are not surprising, though.

If that glass house in which you are living allows growth, then I think YOU are the one who should consider a dose of maturity.
Typical response. And as usual, you have made an unneccesary mountain out of a molehill. So a few non Serena fans have made comments about what she says in her interviews.....why should that bother you so much.

Just admit that you tried to diss Maria and get it over with. You can defend youself all you want but this thread literally took a cheap shot at one player at another's expense.

Yeah I'm the same person you accused me of being.......but it looks like you need to look at yourself in the mirror again and see what a terrible instigator you always have been.....

Again, grow up........

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 10:21 AM
If you stepped outside of your idiocy long enough, you would realize that this thread has not as much to do with Maria Sharapova as it does the double standard that I'm discussing. If you take this as a dig against Maria Sharapova, fine, but that's your own problem. Your ignorance and misunderstanding of my intentions are not surprising, though.

YES WE GET IT

Except, uh, there's been absolutely no 'double standard' actually displayed in this thread.

10nisfanofruz
Jan 6th, 2005, 10:51 AM
What's the big deal with her comment? Masha didn't lie about that. She played badly so she gave herself 3 out of 10pts. That's correct. I hope this kind of her form won't happen in AO.
By the way, I gave 7pts to Elena. She deserved it. :D

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 11:36 AM
Typical response. And as usual, you have made an unneccesary mountain out of a molehill. So a few non Serena fans have made comments about what she says in her interviews.....why should that bother you so much.

Just admit that you tried to diss Maria and get it over with. You can defend youself all you want but this thread literally took a cheap shot at one player at another's expense.

Yeah I'm the same person you accused me of being.......but it looks like you need to look at yourself in the mirror again and see what a terrible instigator you always have been.....

Again, grow up........Nah, it's a typical response by YOu. Your initial response was to try to intimidate anybody by the brash nature of it. That didn't work, so as usual, now you're trying to respond with some form of rational approach.You accuse me of making a mountain out of a molehinll, then say,"So a few non Serena fans have made comments about what she says in her interviews.....why should that bother you so much." Well, everyone from John Wertheim to Pat McEnroe to Pam Shriver were on Serena's case about that comment. Get a grip, Jakeev!

I have absolutely nothing against Maria Sharapova, and I would have started this thread if any top player would have made that comment in order to make my point.

I apologize to you and any other Maria Sharapova fan if you honestly think that I am trying to diss here.

If you are capable of anything besides your own selective reading, you would see that I think her assessment of her own game is probably a fair one.

Instead of trying to use the opportunity to argue with me and defend Maria Sharapova, why don't you consider staying on the topic of the double standard that this thread is intentionally meant to have?

faste5683
Jan 6th, 2005, 11:56 AM
Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?


:haha:

I would imagine because nobody had even seen Maria's quote until your post. Try not to be confused...

:wavey:

Julia1968
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:44 PM
:haha:

I would imagine because nobody had even seen Maria's quote until your post. Try not to be confused...

:wavey:


What's sadder is that Pureracket didn't validate the quote with a link to a CREDIBLE source.

For all we know, he-she made it up.

Not that I would be surprised.

Julia1968
Jan 6th, 2005, 12:46 PM
:haha:

I would imagine because nobody had even seen Maria's quote until your post. Try not to be confused...

:wavey:


What's sadder is that Pureracket didn't validate the quote with a link to a CREDIBLE source.

For all we know, he-she made it up.

Not that I would be surprised.

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:20 PM
What's sadder is that Pureracket didn't validate the quote with a link to a CREDIBLE source.

For all we know, he-she made it up.

Not that I would be surprised.Julia,
Are you EVER going to answer the question to the statment that you made about me? You have dodged it with insults, attempts @ intimidation, and even trying to galvanize the other anti-Williams fans. All in all, you still have not done much towards responding to the statement that you said about me.

Are you a liar, Julia?

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:25 PM
Julia,
Are you EVER going to answer the question to the statment that you made about me? You have dodged it with insults, attempts @ intimidation, and even trying to galvanize the other anti-Williams fans. All in all, you still have not done much towards responding to the statement that you said about me.

Are you a liar, Julia?

Pureracket,

Assuming you really are interesting in discussing the issue which you raised... why do you only respond to trolls and morons? There are several posters who have engaged with the question of the double standard in this thread, but you seem to have ignored them and instead focused on the negativity of a few people I'm surprised aren't on your ignore list.

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Pureracket,

Assuming you really are interesting in discussing the issue which you raised... why do you only respond to trolls and morons? There are several posters who have engaged with the question of the double standard in this thread, but you seem to have ignored them and instead focused on the negativity of a few people I'm surprised aren't on your ignore list.Glamorama,
That's a good point. You're absolutely right, and I guess I did get caught up in that discussion with the troll who is not able to defend the lie.

Honestly, the only reason I mentioned this was to point out the board's view of Serena and her comments. It was in no way trying to "diss" Maria Sharapova who I like. Again, any top player could have made the comments, and I would have started this thread about her.

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:38 PM
Glamorama,
That's a good point. You're absolutely right, and I guess I did get caught up in that discussion with the troll who is not able to defend the lie.

Honestly, the only reason I mentioned this was to point out the board's view of Serena and her comments. It was in no way trying to "diss" Maria Sharapova who I like. Again, any top player could have made the comments, and I would have started this thread about her.

I get that, because I know your posting history, but you can't blame people who don't pay much attention for assuming it was a diss. However, I think that while there has historically been a very clear double standard when it comes to the Williams sisters, I don't think it has survived among most tennis fans: there's certainly no evidence of it in this thread. I still contend that if Maria Sharapova had lost a Slam final and given her 3/10 quote afterwards, she would have got as much (if not more) opprobrium as Serena did after Wimbledon. (Also, if Serena had said this after an exo match, I doubt many would have cared.)

As I said, the only 'double standard' I subscribe to is giving younger players and less accomplished journeywomen more leeway (i.e Jidkova vs Serena last year - sure, Serena was visibly ill, but when someone like Jidkova has the win of her career, I think she's entitled to not have it taken away from her in public). Champions should be gracious about less talented opponents.

I think even the anti-Williams double standard in the media is dying out, though that's probably because the US media is terrified that tennis isn't going to be dominated by Americans any more, and the Williamses are their only real hope. However, there's certainly a pro-Sharapova media bias, though I'd argue that the players who suffer most from this are the other Russians such as Myskina.

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 02:55 PM
Glamorama,
Nice point. I contend, though, that if Serena would have made a statement like that at any given time, she would have probably been attacked. Understand, though, just as I believed Serena when she made that comment, I tend to believe Maria Sharapova as well. She is a wonderful tennis player who'll probably when more Wimbledons(=).

Serena, like most other champions, should probably be more gracious, but I don't think that that's the nature of competition. Of them all, Serena's ego seems to be the most fragile, and it's probably necessary for her to live in a "state of delusion" in order to motivate herself. I suspect that that's what is going to happen with Maria Sharapova too.

Chris Evert said that she was bored when she lost a set to Kathy Horvath @ Wimbledon(=).

Before her glasses, Navratilova could never see the ball.

After a loss to Hingis, Steffi said that it was probably the worst tennis that she'd ever played.

One could wonder why, if it's simply an exhibition, why Maria Sharapova said anything about her level of play @ all.

I could go on, but you make excellent points about Jidkova's "entitlement" to a clean victory and how Champions should be more gracious to less talented opponents. It's going to be interesting to see the Russian theater this year and their interaction with one another.

tennnisfannn
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:14 PM
Would some of you be happier if maria said she was at her absolute best? The Hong Kong tourny, although an exhibition is beginning to take on a real tourny feel. look at the quality of players involved. The hopman cup is also an exhibition but it is certainly a serious affair.
Only a player knows how well they are playing, some have played badly and still won, others have played poorly and lost. If maria says she didn't play her best, then it wasn't her best.

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Glamorama,
Nice point. I contend, though, that if Serena would have made a statement like that at any given time, she would have probably been attacked. Understand, though, just as I believed Serena when she made that comment, I tend to believe Maria Sharapova as well. She is a wonderful tennis player who'll probably when more Wimbledons(=).

Serena, like most other champions, should probably be more gracious, but I don't think that that's the nature of competition. Of them all, Serena's ego seems to be the most fragile, and it's probably necessary for her to live in a "state of delusion" in order to motivate herself. I suspect that that's what is going to happen with Maria Sharapova too.

Chris Evert said that she was bored when she lost a set to Kathy Horvath @ Wimbledon(=).

Before her glasses, Navratilova could never see the ball.

After a loss to Hingis, Steffi said that it was probably the worst tennis that she'd ever played.

One could wonder why, if it's simply an exhibition, why Maria Sharapova said anything about her level of play @ all.

I could go on, but you make excellent points about Jidkova's "entitlement" to a clean victory and how Champions should be more gracious to less talented opponents. It's going to be interesting to see the Russian theater this year and their interaction with one another.

Oh, I think most of the time when champions make 'ungracious' remarks they're pretty accurate, if a little exaggerated, and I understand why they need to do it as well (especially after they lose): your point about Serena's ego is excellent. I've always thought this was the most interesting thing about her - the way she's openly more egotistical than maybe any current player except Navratilova, but how fragile her real inner confidence can be. She's got a very, very similar personality to Martina the First, actually, even down to throwing themselves into off-court interests (Serena into glamour and Hollywood, Martina into 'issues' and politics).

But yeah, back to my point. Serena and Maria may be accurate when they say that they were at 20% or 3/10 or whatever - and really, I don't think any less of them for saying so. It's a post-match interview, I think it's best if all the girls say whatever the hell they want. However, I don't think it's really necessary to make such comments in public: if you really did play that much below your level, people will have seen it. And what the losing player should focus on is why they weren't able to play at their best (and what the other player had to do with it). The best way is to give full credit in the press conference, and work extra hard when you get home, because that way you come off well and you might get the win next time.

It's about being courteous to other players in public. Even if you KNOW you handed the match to her, and even if you think she's a horrendous bitch, it will reflect better on you if you just let your performance speak for itself, and compliment her on what she did, then go home and make sure it never happens again.

That said, it would be very dull if all the players did this. Some people like brash, arrogant players, some people like self-contained, modest types. I think the variety keeps the Tour interesting. I do think fans should realise why not everyone will like their favourite, though.

Pureracket
Jan 6th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Oh, I think most of the time when champions make 'ungracious' remarks they're pretty accurate, if a little exaggerated, and I understand why they need to do it as well (especially after they lose): your point about Serena's ego is excellent. I've always thought this was the most interesting thing about her - the way she's openly more egotistical than maybe any current player except Navratilova, but how fragile her real inner confidence can be. She's got a very, very similar personality to Martina the First, actually, even down to throwing themselves into off-court interests (Serena into glamour and Hollywood, Martina into 'issues' and politics).

But yeah, back to my point. Serena and Maria may be accurate when they say that they were at 20% or 3/10 or whatever - and really, I don't think any less of them for saying so. It's a post-match interview, I think it's best if all the girls say whatever the hell they want. However, I don't think it's really necessary to make such comments in public: if you really did play that much below your level, people will have seen it. And what the losing player should focus on is why they weren't able to play at their best (and what the other player had to do with it). The best way is to give full credit in the press conference, and work extra hard when you get home, because that way you come off well and you might get the win next time.

It's about being courteous to other players in public. Even if you KNOW you handed the match to her, and even if you think she's a horrendous bitch, it will reflect better on you if you just let your performance speak for itself, and compliment her on what she did, then go home and make sure it never happens again.

That said, it would be very dull if all the players did this. Some people like brash, arrogant players, some people like self-contained, modest types. I think the variety keeps the Tour interesting. I do think fans should realise why not everyone will like their favourite, though.Glamorama,
That's an excellent solution and logical one; however, I'm not sure that that's realistic. . . .lol.

The top competitors are taught that they are the only ones who determine(UE's) the course of the victory. I'm sure that most of them have the mentality that they beat themselves.

The words that come out of their mouths, though, are what the squabbles are always about. The double standards are as well.

jacobruiz
Jan 6th, 2005, 04:02 PM
YES WE GET IT

Except, uh, there's been absolutely no 'double standard' actually displayed in this thread.
That's because there is no comparison of equal offences. If we wait a few years and find that Maria has been making the same kind of excuses that Serena has felt the need to make for her all her loses and some of her wins and Maria has received no criticism, then we can say a double standard exists here.

Or if we compare a 17-year old Serena with 17-year old Maria, who has almost always been gracious and complimentary after winning or losing. The one time Maria forgot to mention her losing opponent (Serena) until after her post-match speech this board was flooded with hate-filled posts; hate which was directed toward Maria even after she publicly apologized for her oversight! After reading posts day after day on this board which criticise Maria for the pettiest of reasons I don't really see a "double-standard" toward 17-year olds.

I've been a fan of Maria since she was thirteen. She has never publicly criticised anyone, even the Russians who pick on her because of their own jealousy and insecurity. Maria has never said anything even remotely racist; she just wants to be a great tennis player and deserves better than to be held up as a target for racists and anti-racists.

glamorama
Jan 6th, 2005, 07:35 PM
Glamorama,
That's an excellent solution and logical one; however, I'm not sure that that's realistic. . . .lol.

The top competitors are taught that they are the only ones who determine(UE's) the course of the victory. I'm sure that most of them have the mentality that they beat themselves.

The words that come out of their mouths, though, are what the squabbles are always about. The double standards are as well.

Yeah :lol: I definitely don't expect any of the players to start acting more gracious.

What's most ridiculous about everyone getting bothered by post-match comments is that you just know that everyone in the top 100 has said much worse, much bitcier thing sbehind the scenes and in the locker room - just imagine what Maria and Serena are like with their families about the other girls, or what Nastya and Elena say about Maria behind her back :lol:

jacobruiz, stop being such a ludicrous fanboy. I think when you start using the term 'equal offences', you're taking it all much too seriously.

Although not as seriously as the weirdos who 'hate' Sesil, a 15-year-old girl, for mouthing off :tape:

jacobruiz
Jan 6th, 2005, 07:58 PM
Yeah :lol: I definitely don't expect any of the players to start acting more gracious.

What's most ridiculous about everyone getting bothered by post-match comments is that you just know that everyone in the top 100 has said much worse, much bitcier thing sbehind the scenes and in the locker room - just imagine what Maria and Serena are like with their families about the other girls, or what Nastya and Elena say about Maria behind her back :lol:

jacobruiz, stop being such a ludicrous fanboy. I think when you start using the term 'equal offences', you're taking it all much too seriously.

Although not as seriously as the weirdos who 'hate' Sesil, a 15-year-old girl, for mouthing off :tape:

I used the term, "equal offences", for lack of a better one. Threads like this one, which are started to address double standards, are plentiful but in error. You can talk around the subject all you like; I was merely trying to define it. If this is "ludicrous", so be it.

bandabou
Jan 6th, 2005, 09:52 PM
It's cool......we already knew what world we live in. Now it's "only an exhibition".....of course.

Nobody cares anymore....because those two black sisters clearly aren't the best anymore, soooo....now the whites can have their little fun.

timray
Jan 6th, 2005, 09:57 PM
Nobody cares anymore....because those two black sisters clearly aren't the best anymore, soooo....now the whites can have their little fun.

:bounce: :bigclap: :rocker: :banana: :rocker: :bigclap: :bounce:

Jaime Bahena
Jan 6th, 2005, 10:16 PM
It's cool......we already knew what world we live in. Now it's "only an exhibition".....of course.

Nobody cares anymore....because those two black sisters clearly aren't the best anymore, soooo....now the whites can have their little fun.

Bandabou, do yourself a favor, and let's not bring race into the equation.

Stroba
Jan 7th, 2005, 06:42 AM
"I didnt play that well. If I had to give myself points from one to 10, I would give myself a three."


I like Sharapova, but isn't this the same kind of comment that drew LEGIONS of protests from Anti-Serena fans?


Is there a double standard on the board? :confused: I'm confused. .. why is it ok for Sharapova to give a fair assessment of her game but not Serena?


Can the whole interview be found anywhere? Just posting a single well-chosen comment from a whole interview could make anyone sound bad.

If Maria was asked to tell about her game/level of play, I think her comment is OK. I think she shouldn´t lie if she really felt she played poorly. And some people who watched the match said she played badly from midpoint of the 2:nd set.

If nobody asked her I agree it´s a bit inappropriate to point out she played badly.

Jaime Bahena
Jan 7th, 2005, 02:20 PM
A german proverb says: "Don't make a mosquito to a elephant." ;)

Old American proverb: "Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill."

bandabou
Jan 14th, 2005, 09:20 PM
Bandabou, do yourself a favor, and let's not bring race into the equation.

Just the simple truth.....