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AlexB
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:22 PM
interesting article

http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5163223&startrow=1&date=2004-12-02&do_alert=0

cheo23
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:24 PM
interesting article

http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5163223&startrow=1&date=2004-12-02&do_alert=0
Didn't SHe Say if Maria Plays for the FED cup NEXT YEAR
she wasn't goin to Play for Russia?
Make Up U're MIND MYSKINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Kart
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:25 PM
If I were you I'd delete this thread quick - don't you know this forum is about war NOT peace !!!

Kart
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:25 PM
Clearly I'm too late with my post ... or maybe it doesn't make any difference what you post, it's all about war.

AlexB
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:29 PM
Clearly I'm too late with my post ... or maybe it doesn't make any difference what you post, it's all about war.

:D that was fast

DelMonte
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:44 PM
whatever. i am done with this issue. i've built a bridge and gotten over it.

Volcana
Dec 2nd, 2004, 05:58 PM
It's been clear all along the Myskina's problem was with the father, not the daughter. The people claiming Myskina had some problem with Sharapova were just putting their own beliefs on the situation, instead of reading was Myskina actually said.

cheo23
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:03 PM
It's been clear all along the Myskina's problem was with the father, not the daughter. The people claiming Myskina had some problem with Sharapova were just putting their own beliefs on the situation, instead of reading was Myskina actually said.
Just saw this on the Spiegel website. I like Myskina but I do think her comments in this article, if accurately reported, are out of line.

I have roughly translated the most controverial quotes, which I have highlighted in the article:

1) "I am homesick for Moscow but Maria probably does not even know where Moscow is."

2) "For a foreigner, Maria's Russian is pretty good (or better "unsually good")"

3) "Maria speaks Russian with a vulgar accent"

4) "All these girls (Tatiana Golovin and Sharapova) have no idea about home/country* and national pride. They care nothing for tradition and history; they are only interested in fashion, jewelry, and men and everything expensive".

REadin THese Quotes!
Obviously SHe has a PROBLEM w/ MARIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xan
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:05 PM
It's been clear all along the Myskina's problem was with the father, not the daughter. The people claiming Myskina had some problem with Sharapova were just putting their own beliefs on the situation, instead of reading was Myskina actually said.Well. She reportedly made some pretty rude remarks about Masha. (Helpfully posted in the post above) Hopefully she regrets them now. We'll see.

Anyway Tarpischev seems to be hoping for both to play.




Tarpishchev said he had had a long conversation with Yuri Sharapov last Monday. "I see no conflict," said Tarpishchev. "I want to see Sharapova playing for Russia instead of the U.S. As for communication between team members, tennis players should talk and find a solution. If during exercises or preparation for the match a conflict arises, the coaching staff will intervene."

Doggy
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:08 PM
I am glad this issue is being resolved. If Yuri agrees to control his behavior, then the problem is solved.

Spunky83
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:09 PM
So...I think we can stop fighting now. I´d love to see an russian team consisting of three current slam winners...what´s better than this?!?

On the second thought, it will be tough to make a decent doubles team out of it. Elena Likovtseva has been playing so many years now for the team, it would be kinda sad to take her out.

cheo23
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:10 PM
It's been clear all along the Myskina's problem was with the father, not the daughter. The people claiming Myskina had some problem with Sharapova were just putting their own beliefs on the situation, instead of reading was Myskina actually said.
THeres MORE
"Myskina Actually SAid This" :lol:
"If she (Sharapova) joins our team next season you won't see me there for sure," said the French Open (news - web sites) champion, who is spearheading Russia's challenge for their first Fed Cup title against France this weekend.



"I don't want to be on the same team with people who don't show respect to me as a person. End of story."

bandabou
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:16 PM
Well, well.....so much for Myskina being jealous...

ANd here we have our friend cheo...Maria´s biggest fan.

Spunky83
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:29 PM
Well, well.....so much for Myskina being jealous...

ANd here we have our friend cheo...Maria´s biggest fan.

To all the Masha-fans here on this board of whom I know that they are great and loyal and nice fans: I feel sorry for you that Cheo and some other trash-posters call themselves Masha-fans :rolleyes:

xan
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:50 PM
Well, well.....so much for Myskina being jealous...

ANd here we have our friend cheo...Maria´s biggest fan.
.
How is this "so much for Myskina being jealous"?

Cheo has posted some nasty personal remarks made by Myskina. (If she didn't make them, she'd better sue SPIEGEL)

No doubt Nastya has had time to regret what she said, but such remarks still indicate malice at the time they were made.

bandabou
Dec 2nd, 2004, 06:53 PM
How is this "so much for Myskina being jealous"?

Cheo has posted some nasty personal remarks made by Myskina. (If she didn't make them, she'd better sue SPIEGEL)

No doubt Nastya has had time to regret what she said, but such remarks still indicate malice at the time they were made.


Because of.....you guessed it, the DADDY...and about Maria´s russian, tjaa...who better to judge than a russian?

fammmmedspin
Dec 2nd, 2004, 07:19 PM
Just saw this on the Spiegel website. I like Myskina but I do think her comments in this article, if accurately reported, are out of line.

I have roughly translated the most controverial quotes, which I have highlighted in the article:

1) "I am homesick for Moscow but Maria probably does not even know where Moscow is."

2) "For a foreigner, Maria's Russian is pretty good (or better "unsually good")"

3) "Maria speaks Russian with a vulgar accent"

4) "All these girls (Tatiana Golovin and Sharapova) have no idea about home/country* and national pride. They care nothing for tradition and history; they are only interested in fashion, jewelry, and men and everything expensive".

REadin THese Quotes!
Obviously SHe has a PROBLEM w/ MARIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 and 4 are probably true. Most teenagers can't find anywhere 50 miles from their home on a map and Maria obviously wouldn't feel homesick for Moscow. most British teenagers can't find Paris on a map and US studies show US teenagers can't place Europe let alone Moscow. She's also making the point that the Russian squad are very patriotic which is perfectly obvious if you watch any Russian team from Gymnastics to Volleyball. Tatiana obviously wouldn't feel like that and says she feels French. Maria might but obviously not to the extent that she is homesick or actually wants to live in the country. The last part of 4 is a value jugement - it might well be true too. Might be better not to point it out - though if the pressure is really on to push maria into the team its the obvious question most of Russia and the world's tennis players would ask.

2 and 4 are translated from Russian through German into English or worse still from Nastya Russian into Nastya German into German into English. Without wishing to restart World War 2 (or indeed 1) English is a lot more nuanced a language than German - it adds lots of French, colonial, Latin and Greek words that never made it to German. Words in English acquired specific, changing and in some cases multiple meanings in a cunning plot designed to identify foreign spies. You might translate the German into "foreigner" and "vulgar" but its far from clear if thats the right translation of what was meant. Foreigner for example as used by the Sun newspaper as in "foreign immigrants swamping UK" means people we don't like who want to do us harm. There is a whole world of difference between that and " person who lives in another country" and if you change "lives in" to "comes from" or "belongs in" or " is a national of", you get another 3 meanings straight away. Vulgar is even worse - it could mean anything from basic or simple to working class to crude with umpteen options along the way and multiple meanings for each option. 9 year olds for example would speak simple English but not necessarily in the in the same way that simple English people would speak simple English. Thats before you allow for Russian having multiple words that might be translated into the same thing in German in the first place.

Conclusion we don't know what Nastya said or meant and we won't know till she says it in Russian that only has one meaning and translates only one way into English.

t_fan
Dec 2nd, 2004, 07:31 PM
Different times, different songs. Before the final was over when situation was uncertain is one matter, after an historic win it is another one.

jun_maria
Dec 2nd, 2004, 07:35 PM
can't see the article ..........

bandabou
Dec 2nd, 2004, 07:37 PM
1 and 4 are probably true. Most teenagers can't find anywhere 50 miles from their home on a map and Maria obviously wouldn't feel homesick for Moscow. most British teenagers can't find Paris on a map and US studies show US teenagers can't place Europe let alone Moscow. She's also making the point that the Russian squad are very patriotic which is perfectly obvious if you watch any Russian team from Gymnastics to Volleyball. Tatiana obviously wouldn't feel like that and says she feels French. Maria might but obviously not to the extent that she is homesick or actually wants to live in the country. The last part of 4 is a value jugement - it might well be true too. Might be better not to point it out - though if the pressure is really on to push maria into the team its the obvious question most of Russia and the world's tennis players would ask.

2 and 4 are translated from Russian through German into English or worse still from Nastya Russian into Nastya German into German into English. Without wishing to restart World War 2 (or indeed 1) English is a lot more nuanced a language than German - it adds lots of French, colonial, Latin and Greek words that never made it to German. Words in English acquired specific, changing and in some cases multiple meanings in a cunning plot designed to identify foreign spies. You might translate the German into "foreigner" and "vulgar" but its far from clear if thats the right translation of what was meant. Foreigner for example as used by the Sun newspaper as in "foreign immigrants swamping UK" means people we don't like who want to do us harm. There is a whole world of difference between that and " person who lives in another country" and if you change "lives in" to "comes from" or "belongs in" or " is a national of", you get another 3 meanings straight away. Vulgar is even worse - it could mean anything from basic or simple to working class to crude with umpteen options along the way and multiple meanings for each option. 9 year olds for example would speak simple English but not necessarily in the in the same way that simple English people would speak simple English. Thats before you allow for Russian having multiple words that might be translated into the same thing in German in the first place.

Conclusion we don't know what Nastya said or meant and we won't know till she says it in Russian that only has one meaning and translates only one way into English.


Uhum...specially with a language like Russian many things can get lost in translation.

the cat
Dec 2nd, 2004, 07:52 PM
Nastya has reportedly said some harsh things about Maria. But let's hope the acrimony she and other Russina's have shown Masha is history and they all move forward with their careers and lives. Myskina's stinging comments about Masha probably not knowing where Moscow is and that she has a vulgar accent have to hurt Masha and make her self concious about returing to Russia to visit or to play tennis or tp even speak Russian to the Russian media. Perhaps they can have a decent relationship in the future but I doubt they will ever be real friends because there are major differences between them.

faboozadoo15
Dec 2nd, 2004, 10:46 PM
Because of.....you guessed it, the DADDY...and about Maria´s russian, tjaa...who better to judge than a russian?
i may be misinterpreting you here, but what i got from that is that Myskina made personal remarks that weren't nice about maria because of maria's father. also, myskina can say all she wants about maria's ability to speak the language, but to call her a foreigner and debase her national pride, that's just unnecessary. why would Maria even want to play fed cup if she had no national pride? fed cup isn't all that much of an attention getter in the big markets.

getting back to maria's father-- so it's okay to say nasty things about a child if you disagree with their parent?

Lemonskin.
Dec 2nd, 2004, 10:59 PM
The only reason there's no conflict is that Maria doesn't stoop to Myskina's level and start blasting Myskina.

Oneofakind0490
Dec 2nd, 2004, 11:01 PM
Thats interesting. But why did she say Masha? I thought that was a nickname people on the forum called her not a actually nick name.

Lemonskin.
Dec 2nd, 2004, 11:07 PM
To all the Masha-fans here on this board of whom I know that they are great and loyal and nice fans: I feel sorry for you that Cheo and some other trash-posters call themselves Masha-fans :rolleyes:
Thank you Spunky.

Its good to know that people know that the thoughts of the trash-posters do not reflect the beliefs of the loyal Maria fans.

Edward.
Dec 2nd, 2004, 11:10 PM
This is progress. Myskina needs to bury the whole thing.

The Russian girls need to stick together. They are leading a tennis revolution. They shouldn't do it through bickering and insults.

Volcana
Dec 2nd, 2004, 11:24 PM
I have roughly translated the most controverial quotes, which I have highlighted in the article:


Obviously SHe has a PROBLEM w/ MARIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Rough translations indeed, but I still say Myskina's problem were principally with Yuri Sharapov. I'm not suggesting she likes Sharapova, but the refusal to play Fed Cup if she was on the team was a problem with the father. Solve him, solve problem.

bandabou
Dec 2nd, 2004, 11:27 PM
i may be misinterpreting you here, but what i got from that is that Myskina made personal remarks that weren't nice about maria because of maria's father. also, myskina can say all she wants about maria's ability to speak the language, but to call her a foreigner and debase her national pride, that's just unnecessary. why would Maria even want to play fed cup if she had no national pride? fed cup isn't all that much of an attention getter in the big markets.

getting back to maria's father-- so it's okay to say nasty things about a child if you disagree with their parent?

You make some good points....agreed that making fun of Maria´s russian was just childish and that if the problem is with the father comments should be directed to the father.

Veegeta
Dec 2nd, 2004, 11:37 PM
Just saw this on the Spiegel website. I like Myskina but I do think her comments in this article, if accurately reported, are out of line.

I have roughly translated the most controverial quotes, which I have highlighted in the article:

1) "I am homesick for Moscow but Maria probably does not even know where Moscow is."

2) "For a foreigner, Maria's Russian is pretty good (or better "unsually good")"

3) "Maria speaks Russian with a vulgar accent"

4) "All these girls (Tatiana Golovin and Sharapova) have no idea about home/country* and national pride. They care nothing for tradition and history; they are only interested in fashion, jewelry, and men and everything expensive".

REadin THese Quotes!
Obviously SHe has a PROBLEM w/ MARIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GET IT TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Myskina has made statements like this about Sharapova before this is not new if my memory is correct it was right before the last time Myskina beat her that I heard it. I'm almost postive that this isn't the first time she's come out with it. People are acting like this is fresh off the press. BTW she's stated for the second time that there's no conflicts between her and Masha. Her view of Sharapova is just that.....hers.

Doc
Dec 3rd, 2004, 12:18 AM
Here's the Der Spiegel article in German:

"Scharapowas Russisch hat vulgären Akzent"

Russlands Tennisdamen waren in dieser Saison erfolgreich wie nie und gewannen drei der vier Grand-Slam-Titel. Am Tag vor dem Fed-Cup-Finale wurde aber erneut deutlich, dass es sich um keine harmonische Gemeinschaft handelt. Im Vergleich zu Anastasia Myskina und Maria Scharapowa waren Boris Becker und Michael Stich dicke Kumpels.

Moskau - French-Open-Siegerin Myskina kündigte heute an, dass das Endspiel am Wochenende gegen Titelverteidiger Frankreich womöglich ihr letzter Fed-Cup-Einsatz für ihr Heimatland sei. Falls Wimbledonsiegerin Scharapowa wie geplant im nächsten Jahr zur Mannschaft stoße und ihren Vater und Trainer Juri mitbringe, so Myskina, werde sie auf gar keinen Fall dabeibleiben: "Ich möchte nicht von Leuten wie Juri Scharapow umgeben sein."


Myskina hatte beim Masters in Los Angeles im Halbfinale gegen die spätere Turniersiegerin Scharapowa verloren und sich danach bitter über deren Vater und sein unerlaubtes Coaching beklagt: "Er hat ständig von der Tribüne Anweisungen runtergebrüllt. Ich dachte manchmal, er springt vor Aufregung auf den Platz. Er benimmt sich unmöglich, ich möchte nichts mit ihm zu tun haben."

Die mittlerweile offen ausgetragene Feindschaft zwischen Myskina und Scharapowa hatte sich im August beim WTA-Turnier in San Diego entzündet. "Ich habe Heimweh nach Moskau, aber Maria weiß sicher gar nicht mehr, wo Moskau ist", giftete Myskina damals gegen die ungeliebte "Mascha", die seit acht Jahren bei Nick Bollettieri in Florida lebt und trainiert. Ihre damalige Aussage, dass Scharapowa "für eine Ausländerin ungewöhnlich gut Russisch spricht", korrigierte Myskina heute: "Ihr Russisch hat einen sehr vulgären Akzent."

Gegen Frankreich muss sich Myskina morgen im zweiten Einzel - die Auftaktpartie bestreiten US-Open-Siegerin Swetlana Kusnezowa und Nathalie Dechy - mit der 16-jährigen gebürtigen Russin Tatiana Golovin auseinandersetzen, deren Eltern von Moskau nach Paris zogen, als die Tochter gerade sechs Monate alt war. "All diese Mädchen wissen gar nicht, was Heimat und Nationalstolz ist", schimpfte Myskina, "Traditionen und Geschichte sind ihnen vollkommen egal, sie interessieren sich nur für Mode, Schmuck und Männer, alles möglichst teuer."

www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/0,1518,329837,00.html

And here's the English translation...

"Sharapova's Russian has a vulgar accent"

Russian tennis ladies were successful in three of the four Grand Slam titles this season, they'd never won before. On the day before the Fed Cup final it again became clear however that this is no harmonious group. Compared with Anastasia Myskina and Maria Scharapowa, Boris Becker and Michael Stich were good buddies.

Moscow - French open Champion Myskina announced today that the final this weekend against title defenders France was possibly her last Fed Cup match for her homeland. If Wimbledon Champion Scharapova pushes as planned in the next year to the team and her father and coach Yuri comes along, then Myskina, will not remain in the team: "I would not like to be surrounded by people such as Juri Scharapow."

Myskina had lost in the semi-final of the Masters in Los Angeles against the later Champion Scharapova, and thereafter bitterly over their father and its bad Coaching had deplored themselves: "He constantly shouted down instructions from the grandstand. I thought sometimes, he would jump on court with excitement. His behaviour was so impossible, I don't want to have anything to do with him."

The open enmity between Myskina and Scharapowa had caught fire in August in the WTA tournament in San Diego. "I was homesick for Moscow, but Maria does not know reliably, where Moscow is", spat Myskina at that time against the unloved "Masha", who for eight years has lived and trained with Nick Bollettieri in Florida. Then she had said that Sharapova speaks "unusually good Russian for a foreigner.", today Myskina corrected this to : "her Russian has a very vulgar accent."

Myskina must play tomorrow in the second singles match against France - folowing the match between US open Champion Swetlana Kusnezowa and Nathalie Dechy - facing the 16-year-old Russian-born player, Tatiana Golovin, whose parents came from Moscow but moved to Paris when their daughter was just six months old. "These girls do not know at all, what homeland and national pride are", grumbled Myskina, "tradition and history do not matter to them, they are interested only in fashion, jewellery and men, everything as expensive as possible."

ekaterina
Dec 3rd, 2004, 12:39 AM
Thats interesting. But why did she say Masha? I thought that was a nickname people on the forum called her not a actually nick name.

Masha is a diminutive of Maria. It's her Russian nickname.

Je_ne_sais_quoi
Dec 3rd, 2004, 01:44 AM
yay nastya :D :kiss:

selking
Dec 3rd, 2004, 01:47 AM
sure.......

faboozadoo15
Dec 3rd, 2004, 01:48 AM
You make some good points....agreed that making fun of Maria´s russian was just childish and that if the problem is with the father comments should be directed to the father.
thanks. i had a feeling that's how you felt in the first place, but it got lost in the post that i quoted.
i couldn't possibly think a serena fan could think that what a players' father does and says should be taken out on the player. not that richard's all that bad or anything, but he has said quite a few mystifying things through the years.

denzuko
Dec 3rd, 2004, 02:24 AM
"These girls do not know at all, what homeland and national pride are", grumbled Myskina, "tradition and history do not matter to them, they are interested only in fashion, jewellery and men, everything as expensive as possible."

Damn, this girl must be smarter than me...
I'm much older than her... still don't have a clue about those thing.
But, what do I know... I never compete in Olympic or participated in anything which involved my national flag. :sad:

Orion
Dec 3rd, 2004, 02:34 AM
So...I think we can stop fighting now. I´d love to see an russian team consisting of three current slam winners...what´s better than this?!?

On the second thought, it will be tough to make a decent doubles team out of it. Elena Likovtseva has been playing so many years now for the team, it would be kinda sad to take her out.


I think if Maria Sharapova and Anastasia Myskina both play the singles, and Svetlana Kuznetsova and Elena Likhovtseva play the doubles, they will have the chances to win 5-0 a lot.

Orion
Dec 3rd, 2004, 02:41 AM
As a Russian, I would like to point out that Maria Sharapova's unique accent, while very different from the "proper" Muscovite accent (like High-London English), is not due to her living in America, nor do I think Anastasia Myskina meant it like that. Maria Sharapova never lived in Moscow: she was born, and lived until 3 or 6 (I can't remember) in Siberia. Siberia has a VERY different accent than Moscow. Anastasia Myskina was born, raised, and lives in Moscow. Her comment I think was more a snub of Yuri Shoripov, who could not afford to live in Moscow, than a comment on Maria Sharapova's American tendencies.

Sharapower
Dec 3rd, 2004, 04:43 AM
As a Russian, I would like to point out that Maria Sharapova's unique accent, while very different from the "proper" Muscovite accent (like High-London English), is not due to her living in America, nor do I think Anastasia Myskina meant it like that. Maria Sharapova never lived in Moscow: she was born, and lived until 3 or 6 (I can't remember) in Siberia. Siberia has a VERY different accent than Moscow. Anastasia Myskina was born, raised, and lives in Moscow. Her comment I think was more a snub of Yuri Shoripov, who could not afford to live in Moscow, than a comment on Maria Sharapova's American tendencies.
I had this thought that Maria Sharapova's social and geographic origins are part of the stuff between Masha and the Moscovites. Maybe some Russian fans could confirm or invalidate my supposition but it seems to me that girls like Elena Dementieva or Anastasia Myskina were born in upper middle class families from Moscow (I imagine that a club like Spartak Moscow is rather designed for this social environment) while Sharapova's parents were working class people from the southern province.

Sharapower
Dec 3rd, 2004, 05:10 AM
About the thread topic, it seems that Anastasia Myskina has just realized her last week's words were not that smart.

Funny that both, her and Larissa Neiland, somehow softened their position. Though they stick on the general principle that Yuri Sharapov is Satan, they're just like "Okay Masha, you are Russian, we like you, there's no fuss."

In a few weeks it's gonna be "Welcome to the team, Masha", and then if Maria does well in the Fed Cup "Masha is the queen!", lol.

The morale of the story is "Never say anything that could make you ridiculous in the future." Maybe the stress of a heavy season made Anastasia forget this basic principle. There was already the "She has no chance of beating Serena" :lol: .

10nisfanofruz
Dec 3rd, 2004, 07:50 AM
Myskina: "There is no conflict between me and Masha"

She said that after she won Fed Cup right?
I got it ;)
Anyway, I can't wait to see Maria plays in Fed cup next year! :bounce:
hope that Myskina still be there. :rolleyes:

VeraNuVirgosFan
Dec 3rd, 2004, 10:45 AM
4) "All these girls (Tatiana Golovin and Sharapova) have no idea about home/country* and national pride. They care nothing for tradition and history; they are only interested in fashion, jewelry, and men and everything expensive".
Do people really think Masha and Tati are more interested in men than other female players?