PDA

View Full Version : racism doesn't exist...


SJW
Nov 17th, 2004, 09:52 AM
FA puts racism complaint to Uefa

Spain U21 1-0 England U21
The Football Association has lodged a written complaint with Uefa over racist abuse aimed at England Under-21 players during Tuesday's 1-0 defeat in Spain.
Strikers Carlton Cole and Darren Bent were subjected to monkey chants during the first half, with Glen Johnson later receiving the same treatment.

"I thought I heard something in the first half - it was disappointing," said U21s manager Peter Taylor.

"It happened when Carlton was running through towards the Spanish goal."

The actions of the fans could not have been more ill-timed after the controversy surrounding senior Spanish coach Luis Aragones.

He allegedly made racist remarks in October about Thierry Henry ahead of Spain's game with France.

Aragones claimed he was trying to motivate Henry's Arsenal team-mate Jose Reyes in training.

He has not made a personal apology to Henry, although the Spanish Football Federation apologised formally to Arsenal.

"I can't say if it's a reply to what I could have said or not but, in my opinion, racism is a question of conscience and I have my conscience clear," Aragones added.

England players wore 'Kick Racism Out of Football' T-shirts at Tuesday's training session, ahead of Wednesday's senior international with the Spanish in Madrid.

Meanwhile, organisers of the London 2012 Olympic bid are unhappy over plans to promote Madrid's rival campaign during the game.

Assurances were given that the Bernabeu stadium would not be used to promote the Spanish capital's bid.

But the Madrid campaign has now bought pitchside advertising space.

London 2012 communications director Mike Lee said: "In our view, it may be within the letter of the rules but not the spirit."

---------------------------------------------------

:rolleyes:

nice action by the English senior team :yeah:

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:38 AM
Aragonés attacks English 'wolves'

Daniel Taylor in Madrid
Wednesday November 17, 2004
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)

Luis Aragonés, Spain's coach, last night risked further condemnation with a wholly inadequate attempt to repair the damage caused by his alleged description of Thierry Henry as a "black shit".


In remarkable scenes at his pre-match press conference, Aragonés railed against allegations of racism before turning on his inquisitors in the English media.

"You are kids compared to me. You don't know anything whereas I am nearly 70," he said. "I know who are the racists. I remember the colonies. I have a lot of black friends and I have fed black people at my table, in my house. They have explained to me that the English were after them in the colonies.

"I repeat: I have a lot of black friends and I am a citizen of the world. In my job I have been to many countries, I always respect different cultures and I have many friends from different places. I cannot understand the reaction to what I said."

England's players wore T-shirts bearing the anti-racism messsage in training for tonight's friendly. Meanwhile Aragonés angrily declared he had no reason to apologise personally to Henry after being captured on television making his remark about the Arsenal striker while remonstrating with José Antonio Reyes during a practice match last month. "I have said sorry in public. We have got friends in common and the boy [Henry] doesn't want me to say sorry again. He knows exactly what it is to motivate a player and that my comments were taken out of context.


"He has spoken with Reyes in England and he knows that I respect him like any other black man, like Samuel Eto'o and Finidi George and all my other black friends. It's history."

The Spanish media appear bemused by the furore Aragonés's words have caused. Most of their criticism has been directed at the English media. The presenter of TVE, the state channel, told viewers last night: "The British press have looked to cause a storm, to heat up the game. They were determined to get Aragonés - and they've succeeded."

Aragonés adopted this argument for his own benefit. "I am not a racist but you will write what you want," he told the English contingent at the stormy press conference. "You are like wolves after a deer.

"For me, racism is a matter of conscience and my conscience is clear. If your conscience is not clear then you have to consider whether you are racist or not. I am not and lots of black people have told me that. What about you?"

One English reporter replied: "Mine is clear."
Aragonés said: "I doubt it."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aragones is just an arsehole! :rolleyes:

deep bass
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:57 AM
If you call someone who is black a 'black shit' (I haven't seen the interview, so I don't know if he said this or not), then you are racist. And yes, that makes Aragones an arsehole. What is he complaining about?

SJW
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:06 PM
the Spanish senior team is doing it too. unbelievable :fiery: Eriksson should just pull his boys off the pitch. they shouldn't have to go through that.

~Cherry*Blossom~
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:24 PM
You hear what they are doing to Shaun Wright Phillips everytime he has the ball!!! :fiery: :fiery:

DevilishAttitude
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:27 PM
Fucking terrible :rolleyes:

Doesn't help Spain's manager is racist

And people go on about how terrible the English crowd is :rolleyes: just need to watch this match to make them shut the fuck up :fiery:

Emola
Nov 17th, 2004, 10:43 PM
Very sad Im afraid. Its not right at all.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 17th, 2004, 11:30 PM
They'll find a way of blaming the English, Fifa always do

The people who did this should be roasted alive - starting with Senor Aragones

Diesel
Nov 18th, 2004, 06:46 AM
Why is it in football racism is a problem? Maybe it is just like other sports where players will be bashed and hounded but I thought especially because it is the global sport that more respect would be given to players no matter where they play. These racist calls are really surprising to me.

DunkMachine
Nov 18th, 2004, 07:59 AM
Haha that "white shit" is cracking me up. `Hey I'm not racist I've had 3 blacks over at my house. I even spoke to Finidi and Eto'o once`.

Halardfan
Nov 18th, 2004, 10:23 AM
As a Man City fan, I have been waiting eagerly for Shaun Wright-Phillips to get his England breakthrough, to play on the biggest stage, he is a hugely exciting prospect...for him to get the treatment he had last night is just disgraceful, unbelieveable in this day and age...

In England I think we have made a fair measure of progress in such things in recent years, such incidents are rarer here now, though there is still much to do...Spain and some other countries need to take the issue far more seriously, and need to be punished by UEFA, not merely with a fine and a slap on the wrists, but be made to play some home matches behind closed doors.

It doesn't help when the coach is allowed to make racist comments and get away with it.

Stamp Paid
Nov 18th, 2004, 10:39 AM
Racist Europeans?
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/traurig/sad-smiley-023.gif

Halardfan
Nov 18th, 2004, 11:05 AM
Seems the Spanish media is in denial of the truth...





MADRID, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Spanish media and football authorities glossed over racist chanting that marred Wednesday's friendly between Spain and England and accused their English counterparts of mounting a witch-hunt against them.

Spain won the friendly at the Bernabeu with a determined and stylish performance, the only goal of the game coming from a ninth minute header from Athletic Bilbao defender Asier del Horno. But the game was marred by continual monkey noises directed at visiting black players and by a regular chorus of "If you are not f**king black jump up and down" sung by large sections of the 55,000 crowd



After the game the Spanish Federation's press officer Fernando Garrido refused to permit any questions about the incidents, saying that some of the blame for the incident lay with English reporters.

"Were there racist chants against some players? This hasn't happened in the Spanish league and Spain for many years," he said. "So you (English reporters) should ask yourselves what you have done to contribute to all this."



ANGRY DEFENCE

The runup to the match was marked by controversy involving coach Luis Aragones, who mounted an angry defence of his recent comments about Thierry Henry in which he had referred to the Arsenal and France striker as "that black shit" during a Spanish training session last month.

Aragones refused to comment on the chanting by the crowd, saying he was only prepared to answer questions on his team's performance.

"I've always said my conscience is clear and I only want to talk about football," he said.

A 10-minute anti-racist video was shown before the match on the stadium's big screens and the two teams lined up behind a banner bearing the slogan "All united against racism in football".

But the atmosphere soured as soon as the game started with Ashley Cole and later substitute Shaun Wright-Phillips greeted by monkey noises every time they touched the ball.

Spanish daily ABC made little comment about the racist abuse by the crowd but accused English reporters of mounting an orchestrated campaign against Aragones.

"The English media continued their witch-hunt against the Spanish coach over the issue of racism. The reporters took advantage of the post-match press conference to deepen the wound that had been opened before the game. The darts were coated with poison.

"The response of the Spanish Federation press office did not satisfy the English, perhaps it was because their team had played so poorly and they wanted to divert attention towards this muddled issue."

Spanish radio station Radio Marca also blamed the English FA for stirring up the issue of racism, saying that their complaint about racist abuse in Tuesday's under-21 international between Spain and England at Alcala de Henares was completely unfounded.

They also pointed the finger at England players, and Wayne Rooney in particular, for their heavy handed challenges during the game.

"It's all lies," said Marca reporter Miguel Angel Mendez, who was at the under-21 match.

"One thing is that we have a coach who gets carried away occasionally and another ... is when people try to organise a campaign to call us all racists. "Yes, there were insults of course, but not for being black, white, green or blue."

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 18th, 2004, 11:25 AM
The scenes throughout last night's match towards both Ashley Cole and Shaun Wright-Phillips were absolutely pathetic. What the hell were the Spanish crowd thinking? It was the loudest I've ever heard that type of thing and I have to say that I'm staggered. FIFA should throw everything they can at them but they probably won't. Knowing Sepp Blatter, he'll probably turn it round so that it was the English that were in the wrong and our players were provoking them or some total bullshit like that! :mad:

DunkMachine
Nov 18th, 2004, 11:27 AM
Racist Europeans?
http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/traurig/sad-smiley-023.gifEurope is no different, just look at Belgium.

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 18th, 2004, 11:37 AM
After the game the Spanish Federation's press officer Fernando Garrido refused to permit any questions about the incidents, saying that some of the blame for the incident lay with English reporters.

"Were there racist chants against some players? This hasn't happened in the Spanish league and Spain for many years," he said. "So you (English reporters) should ask yourselves what you have done to contribute to all this."
:rolleyes: Yes, so it is England's fault after all.... I though it would be! :fiery:

Cassius
Nov 18th, 2004, 12:18 PM
Yes, so it is England's fault after all.... I though it would be!Yeah, it's completely SWP's fault for being black.
If he doesn't want to be racially abused he should turn himself white, then Spain would love him:rolleyes:

But seriously, it was disgraceful that a civilised, free nation would do that in such numbers. You always get the odd few who do it, but when I was watching on TV it sounded like the entire crowd was joining in.
The monkey noises are to be expected in Eastern Europe, where people haven't generally had much contact with other races, but in a free country (and a large cultural city like Madrid), it totally shocked me.
It was like being back in England 20 years ago. I can't believe that Spain (and other countries such as Italy and even Holland) could be 20 YEARS behind England in this matter.

The Crow
Nov 18th, 2004, 01:53 PM
Europe is no different, just look at Belgium.
Or The Netherlands for that matter :tape: :rolleyes:

Anyway, I saw bits and pieces of the match and the crowd was just disgraceful. And why didn't England just stop the match :confused:

flyingmachine
Nov 18th, 2004, 02:02 PM
Or The Netherlands for that matter :tape: :rolleyes:

Anyway, I saw bits and pieces of the match and the crowd was just disgraceful. And why didn't England just stop the match :confused:
I wish they did. :rolleyes: Because they were playing rubbish lastnight. :o The worse performence for England since England vs Scotland in 1999. :o

SJW
Nov 18th, 2004, 02:03 PM
. And why didn't England just stop the match :confused:

thats what i wanted to know. they should have just walked off.

Halardfan
Nov 18th, 2004, 02:14 PM
They were talking on radio this morining about how Real Madrid have a fan grouping who are essentially Neo-Nazi's but who get some measure of help from Real, including a room at the stadium to store their banners etc in! Unbelievable!

Apparantly these people were giving their fascist salutes last night.

In Italy at clubs like Lazio the problem is rife too...

Its one thing that a club/country have a far-right element in its support, (many clubs and countries do) but that people should turn a blind eye to their behaviour or even give such people an helping hand is incredible!

The Crow
Nov 18th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Oh and another thing: why didn't the referee stop the match?? Surely, FIFA (or UEFA?) can't tolerate this??

SJW
Nov 18th, 2004, 03:10 PM
Oh and another thing: why didn't the referee stop the match?? Surely, FIFA (or UEFA?) can't tolerate this??

Taylor wanted England to walk off

Players union chief Gordon Taylor says England should have walked off in the game with Spain after racist abuse from home fans towards their black players.
The Football Association is to complain over the incidents but Taylor says it should have acted at the time.

The chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association told the BBC: "My members were being humiliated."

But Uefa said England's players were right not to walk off the pitch in protest at the crowd's behaviour.


Taylor said he was appalled that monkey chants were directed at Ashley Cole and Shaun Wright-Phillips, while several England U-21 players were targeted in their game on Tuesday.

"The message should have come from the FA directors to say we will take responsibility and take them off," he said.

We could have 100s of cases in which players could walk off the pitch saying 'I heard someone shouting something'

Taylor added: "We have to say 'enough is enough' and set an example. It's about human dignity.

"We should have set an example in that the game is more important than winning or losing."

But Uefa spokesman William Gaillard, told BBC Radio Five Live that leaving the pitch would have set a precedent.

"We would not condone such behaviour for the very simple reason it could lead to all sorts of abuse," he said.

"I don't think we should advise this kind of behaviour for merely technical reasons, because we would have hundreds of cases in which players could walk off the pitch and say 'I heard someone shouting something'.

"I don't think this is the right attitude.

The match fell under Fifa authority rather than that of Uefa as it was a friendly - but the FA is writing to both authorities as Uefa is responsible for the leading the campaign against racism in European football.

Gaillard denied that Uefa's punishments for racist chanting are too lenient.

Referring to a hypothetical situation in European club football rather than last night's clash, he added: "It would be unfair to kick out a whole club because of the behaviour of a few fans."

MS
Nov 18th, 2004, 03:24 PM
This was really disgusting and embarrassing for Spaniards, I was shocked when I heard those shouts (and I only saw some minutes of the match...). Anyway, don't generalise, I don't think it's fair saying that Spain is racist, because I think the majority of us isn't. A minority shouted and this people sould be banned from the stadiums, it's always a minority the people that shout. It has been said in the press about this and I think something should be done so that this doesn't happen again.

DevilishAttitude
Nov 18th, 2004, 03:38 PM
Spain should have some of there home matches played outside of there country :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

I mean we all know how badly we would have treated if our fans had been doing that :rolleyes:

I mean it's not the first time I've seen since it happened in countries like Macendonia and Slovakia but there abuse was nothing like the Spanish crowd :rolleyes:

It's Completely lowered my opinion of Spain :sad:

Kelly
Nov 18th, 2004, 03:46 PM
as a manchester city fan and huge fan of shauny wright last nite was appaling...its digusting that this is still going on.

then in the press today they announce that athletico madrid want to buy him for 8 million...do they honestly think he would want to play there now!!

MS
Nov 18th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Of course this was disgusting, but as I said, you CAN'T generalise!!!. Do you think that this happens all the time in Spain?. Of course this time the national federation should be banned, and I hope this doesn't happen anymore, but as I said, the majority of people in Spain is not racist, and there are some comments here that I haven't liked at all. We are not violent, we are not racist, and the usual behaviour at the stadiums is good, so, this time it wasn't good, but you can't say with this that we are crap. As I say, I hope that something is done, but don't think that all the Spaniards are the same!!!

The Crow
Nov 18th, 2004, 04:22 PM
This was really disgusting and embarrassing for Spaniards, I was shocked when I heard those shouts (and I only saw some minutes of the match...). Anyway, don't generalise, I don't think it's fair saying that Spain is racist, because I think the majority of us isn't. A minority shouted and this people sould be banned from the stadiums, it's always a minority the people that shout. It has been said in the press about this and I think something should be done so that this doesn't happen again.
I agree with you. It's a common problem, in Europe and in the world. not only in Spain. However, the Spanish football association should really take steps to prevent this because it hurts the reputation of a country....

Emola
Nov 18th, 2004, 04:23 PM
MS, I understand that because the English are ALL labelled as hooligans, when we know this isn't true. We know ALL Spanish aren't racist, but a minority were last night. It was there for all to hear. I have never heard chants come across so loud on the TV. It needs to be stopped of course because its completely unacceptable.

NFFC_FAN
Nov 18th, 2004, 04:59 PM
But Uefa spokesman William Gaillard, told BBC Radio Five Live that leaving the pitch would have set a precedent.

"We would not condone such behaviour for the very simple reason it could lead to all sorts of abuse," he said.

"I don't think we should advise this kind of behaviour for merely technical reasons, because we would have hundreds of cases in which players could walk off the pitch and say 'I heard someone shouting something'.

"I don't think this is the right attitude.



This is a very good point.

While racism of any kind is intolerable, there will always be a mindless few, a minority, who will never get the message.

Therefore, I don't think that there is much you can do to prevent things like this happening again. FIFA could fine the Spanish FA to their heart's content, could make Spain play X number of games behind closed doors... but it won't eradicate the problem in the long term.

Walking off the pitch would have meant the bullies winning. I would like to think that England's players are capable of rising above it, safe in the knowledge that while they may be inferior on the football pitch, they are superior morally.

Britain has made great progress over the last couple of decades tackling racism in sport, something that we should be proud of. But just because other countries haven't, doesn't make the majority of them racist and backward - we're talking about socio-political issues here, something which can't be solved overnight.

This could potentially get blown out of all proportion - I hope for football's sake that it doesn't.

Alvarillo
Nov 18th, 2004, 06:30 PM
First of all i want to say that the group of people who yesterday sang this awful songs are a little nazi group of RMadrid team. But i also support RM and i'm no racist, is stupid to say that the Spaniards are all racist because of a little group is....
But i also want to remember the people from the United Kingdom that ALWAYS when their hooligans come to another country they make a hell in the city they visit so maybe they are not the most cualified to be the right humans defenders.... so first try to solve your own problem, we will do all necesary to end our national embarrasment

DevilishAttitude
Nov 18th, 2004, 06:59 PM
First of all i want to say that the group of people who yesterday sang this awful songs are a little nazi group of RMadrid team. But i also support RM and i'm no racist, is stupid to say that the Spaniards are all racist because of a little group is....
But i also want to remember the people from the United Kingdom that ALWAYS when their hooligans come to another country they make a hell in the city they visit so maybe they are not the most cualified to be the right humans defenders.... so first try to solve your own problem, we will do all necesary to end our national embarrasment

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The UK hooliganism is overblown by everyone and there isn't a big problem

What gets me is how Spanish people don't seem to be bothered by what happened :eek: :(

Alvarillo
Nov 18th, 2004, 07:13 PM
jajajajajaja nice joke, hooligans overblowned?????
please tell this to the poeple from Portugal and Greece this year and another countries like Turkey for example???? when an English team visits another foreign place, in this city they have to send police from the nearest cities to control the drunk hooligans....
And i'm sure each Spaniard is embarrased with yesterday match but i repeat you ,that first of all try to solve your problem and then tell us how did you solve because hooligans is a big big big problem and they are thousands instead of some hundred crazy nazis who yesterday embarrased our country.

DevilishAttitude
Nov 18th, 2004, 08:26 PM
jajajajajaja nice joke, hooligans overblowned?????
please tell this to the poeple from Portugal and Greece this year and another countries like Turkey for example???? when an English team visits another foreign place, in this city they have to send police from the nearest cities to control the drunk hooligans....
And i'm sure each Spaniard is embarrased with yesterday match but i repeat you ,that first of all try to solve your problem and then tell us how did you solve because hooligans is a big big big problem and they are thousands instead of some hundred crazy nazis who yesterday embarrased our country.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: again

Everybody thinks were the only country who produces hooligans which is shite

And your country isn't embarrased by yesterday I saw the news and there was no mention of there behaviour from the Spanish press and they were blaming US for the chanting :rolleyes:

MS
Nov 18th, 2004, 09:07 PM
Do you think that the press reflects the feeling of the people?. Of course that we think that it was embarrassing, intolerable and hope that this doesn't happen again, but thinking that a country is crap because of the attittude of the press...

I think it's not a question of countries. but a question of a group of people, same happens in England with the hooligans, I don't have a bad opinion on the British people because of the hooligans, on the contrary, I have a good opinion. bad people exist everywhere...

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 18th, 2004, 09:11 PM
Alvarillo, your comment is a pile of shite to be honest! :rolleyes: Yes England has some hooligans, just like every other country in Europe, and yes they've done wrong but the point is that it's dealt with very seriously by both the English FA and the British press whereas the racism issue last night has just been ignored by the Spanish media and the majority of the Spanish people.

If it was the English doing what the Spanish crowd was doing last night we may have been thrown out of the World Cup within hours whereas still nothing seems to have happened to Spain, despite an investigation being started.

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 18th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Do you think that the press reflects the feeling of the people?. Of course that we think that it was embarrassing, intolerable and hope that this doesn't happen again, but thinking that a country is crap because of the attittude of the press...

I think it's not a question of countries. but a question of a group of people, same happens in England with the hooligans, I don't have a bad opinion on the British people because of the hooligans, on the contrary, I have a good opinion. bad people exist everywhere...
I understand how your feeling MS with the fact that everytime there's a big tournament the English seem to be singled out as ALL wanting to start trouble and it's obvious that 99.9% of the English aren't hooligans and that 99.9% of Spaniards aren't racist but one thing that's really getting me is how FIFA aren't throwing the book at the Spanish FA like they would do at the English FA.

finch
Nov 18th, 2004, 09:33 PM
SJW - Were you talking to your imaginary black friend again?

Alvarillo
Nov 18th, 2004, 10:51 PM
please visit
www.elmundo.es
www.marca.es
www.as.com
and then tell me if the Spanish press ignores the situation

Alvarillo
Nov 18th, 2004, 10:59 PM
El Mundo
La FIFA abrirá una investigación para esclarecer los incidentes racistas
EUROPA PRESS


Joseph Blatter, presidente de la FIFA./AFP




ZÚRICH (SUIZA).- La FIFA ha mostrado su preocupación por el "reciente aumento en el fútbol de incidentes racistas" a través de un comunicado y con la mirada puesta en el España-Inglaterra disputado en Madrid. El organismo internacional condena "severamente" tales actos y anuncia su intención de abrir una investigación para esclarecer lo sucedido en los amistosos jugados tanto de las selecciones absolutas como de las Sub 21.

Durante los partidos de 'guante blanco' entre España e Inglaterra, disputados los días 16 y 17 de noviembre por la selecciones nacionales Sub 21, en Alcalá de Henares, y absoluta, en el Bernabéu, "los jugadores de piel oscura ingleses se convirtieron en el objeto de improperios racistas por parte de numerosos espectadores", lamenta la organización.
En el caso de estos encuentros, que al ser amistosos recaen en su jurisdicción, "la FIFA abrirá una investigación" y solicitará a la Real Federación Española de Fútbol "que manifieste su postura a fin de indagar y aclarar hasta qué punto se ha cometido una violación de los estatutos y reglamentos, así como del Código Ético de la FIFA, aprobado por el Comité Ejecutivo de la FIFA en su sesión del pasado 6 de octubre".

El propio presidente de la FIFA, Joseph Blatter, se mostró consternado por los últimos acontecimientos e hizo un llamamiento a la comunidad futbolística internacional y a la sociedad mundial para que se repudie cualquier manifestación de racismo. "El racismo y la discriminación no tienen cabida en nuestro deporte. El fútbol, más que nada, sirve de lazo de unión y ayuda a que exista la comprensión. El mundo actual está plagado de conflictos derivados del racismo y la discriminación. El fútbol posee una fuerza positiva que puede hacer frente a este mal", lamentó.

ALSO IN FRANCE
Además, el organismo recuerda que "el pasado sábado en Francia, al término del partido entre el Bastia y el Saint Ettien, se registraron agresiones de supuestos aficionados, quienes atacaron a los jugadores negros del Bastia y hace un mes se escucharon igualmente injurias racistas en el partido entre el Panathinaikos y el Arsenal de la Liga de Campeones". Cabe recordar que, con ocasión del congreso extraordinario, celebrado el 7 de julio de 2001 en Buenos Aires, la FIFA organizó la primera conferencia contra el racismo, en la cual se aprobó una extensa resolución, cuyos puntos principales se han confirmado y difundido en diversos actos y competiciones en todo el mundo.

DESDE LA EMBAJADA NACIONAL EN LONDRES
El Gobierno y el deporte español condenan los gritos racistas


El secretario de Estado para el Deporte español Jaime Lissavetzky./EFE

LONDRES (INGLATERRA).- La embajada de España en Londres ha transmitido su "condena" a los gritos racistas "inaceptables" que se escucharon en el Santiago Bernabéu contra jugadores ingleses negros, durante el amistoso España-Inglaterra. Así lo ha hecho saber a través de un comunicado enviado a los medios de comunicación ingleses en nombre de Jaime Lissavetzky y el Gobierno Español.

En esta nota, la embajada señala que tanto el secretario de Estado para el Deporte español Jaime Lissavetzky, como fuentes de la Presidencia del Gobierno, han destacado que este tipo de comportamiento por parte de "un sector del público" es siempre "lamentable". "Ni el Gobierno español ni los españoles apoyan o aprueban esta clase de acciones, que hay que rechazar en cualquier circunstancia", reza el comunicado.
El secretario de Estado para el Deporte, Jaime Lissavetzky, ha manifestado su "absoluta repulsa hacia cualquier manifestación de racismo o xenofobia en todos los ámbitos en que se produzcan. El Consejo Superior de Deportes lamenta y rechaza el comportamiento de este sector minoritario y mantendrá su decidida lucha contra el racismo y la xenofobia a través de la Comisión Nacional contra la Violencia en los espectáculos deportivos.

Durante el encuentro internacional amistoso disputado el miércoles en Madrid entre los combinados español e inglés, algunos hinchas locales emitieron desde las gradas gritos racistas contra cuatro jugadores ingleses negros, cada vez que uno de ellos tocaba la pelota.

En el Reino Unido, este comportamiento ha originado general rechazo y reacciones por parte del primer ministro, Tony Blair, el secretario de estado para el deporte, Richard Caborn, el director ejecutivo de la Asociación Profesional de Futbolistas, Gordon Taylor, entre otros, así como de los medios de comunicación.

MARCA
La FIFA abrirá una investigación sobre el España-Inglaterra

La FIFA anunció que abrirá una investigación sobre lo ocurrido en los partidos amistosos entre las selecciones absoluta y sub'21 de España e Inglaterra, disputados el martes y el miércoles en Alcalá de Henares y Madrid, ya que ambos "recaen en su jurisdicción".

La Federación Internacional indica en un comunicado que "solicitará a la Federación Española que manifieste su postura, a fin de indagar y aclarar hasta qué punto se ha cometido una violación de los Estatutos y reglamentos, así como del Código Etico de la FIFA, aprobado por el Comité Ejecutivo en su sesión del pasado 6 de octubre".

La FIFA expresó su "preocupación por el reciente aumento de incidentes racistas que condena severamente", tal y como ocurrió el martes y el miércoles en los amistosos entre españoles e ingleses; al término de un encuentro de la Liga francesa entre el Bastia y el St. Etienne, en el que hubo agresiones de los aficionados a los jugadores negros del Bastia, y los insultos que se profirieron durante el Panathinaikos y el Arsenal, de Liga de Campeones.

Llamamiento contra el racismo
El presidente de FIFA, Joseph Blatter, hizo un llamamiento a la comunidad futbolística internacional y a la sociedad mundial para repudiar cualquier manifestación de racismo.

"El racismo y la discriminación no tienen cabida en nuestro deporte. El fútbol, más que nada, sirve de lazo de unión y ayuda a que exista la comprensión. El mundo actual está plagado de conflictos derivados del racismo y la discriminación. El fútbol posee una fuerza positiva que puede hacer frente a este mal", declaró Blatter.

La FIFA, que aboga por el lema "Fútbol para todos, todos para el fútbol", recordó también que en el Congreso Extraordinario celebrado el 7 de julio de 2001 en Buenos Aires la FIFA organizó la primera Conferencia contra el Racismo, en la que se aprobó una resolución cuyos puntos se difundieron en diversos actos y competiciones.


and now can you repeat that the Spanish presse ignores....

Jeleno Benesovo
Nov 18th, 2004, 11:17 PM
racism exists everywhere, also in Spain. What I doubt is about Aragonés being racist.

Alvarillo
Nov 18th, 2004, 11:26 PM
of course racism is in every country in the world
non-latin people doesn't understand Aragonés he didn't want to offend Henry, he wanted to "picar" Reyes, try to inspire them giving him the nerve to play better...
and is stupid to say Aragonés is racist because is the "second father" of another black player like Samuel Eto'o.
but only people who knows our language can understand he wanted to say...

SJW
Nov 19th, 2004, 09:00 AM
i'm not racist, my car is white :)

MS
Nov 19th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Check this

http://www.marca.com/primeras/04/11/g1119.jpg

Tenisci
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:17 AM
jajajajajaja nice joke, hooligans overblowned?????
please tell this to the poeple from Portugal and Greece this year and another countries like Turkey for example???? when an English team visits another foreign place, in this city they have to send police from the nearest cities to control the drunk hooligans....
And i'm sure each Spaniard is embarrased with yesterday match but i repeat you ,that first of all try to solve your problem and then tell us how did you solve because hooligans is a big big big problem and they are thousands instead of some hundred crazy nazis who yesterday embarrased our country.

THAT'S RIGHT. IN OUR COUNTRY, WHEN WE ARE PLAYING AGAINST ENGLAND, YOUR SUPPORTES DO STUPID THINGS. BUT THAT'S REALLY FUNNY :lol:

SJW
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:57 AM
THAT'S RIGHT. IN OUR COUNTRY, WHEN WE ARE PLAYING AGAINST ENGLAND, YOUR SUPPORTES DO STUPID THINGS. BUT THAT'S REALLY FUNNY :lol:

our supporters do stupid things? and the turkish don't do jack right, i mean stabbing 2 people to death was real cool :rolleyes:

DelMonte
Nov 19th, 2004, 11:40 AM
of course racism is in every country in the world
non-latin people doesn't understand Aragonés he didn't want to offend Henry, he wanted to "picar" Reyes, try to inspire them giving him the nerve to play better...
and is stupid to say Aragonés is racist because is the "second father" of another black player like Samuel Eto'o.
but only people who knows our language can understand he wanted to say...


Ok, please explain to us non-latin people who do not understand the complexity of the spanish language, what exactly Aragones meant when he called Henry a "black piece of shit" or "black shit" ("Negro de mierda." ).

Cheers.

The Crow
Nov 19th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Okay, why are we here defending our own hooligans lol? Shouldn't it be us against the hooligans instead of bickering who has the most/worst/... hooligans? :confused:

Truthwillout
Nov 19th, 2004, 11:50 AM
Racism can even affect minor league events. In Belgium, a high school club has been suspended for a year because their supporters chanted anti-semitic things while they were playing a Brussels team essentially made up of people from the Jewish community (things like 'Hitler was right, get the ovens going again', and so on).
This is a problem I have with soccer. It's a beautiful game I love watching it but so many supporters from all countries are such ignorant fools.

DelMonte
Nov 19th, 2004, 11:56 AM
Racism can even affect minor league events. In Belgium, a high school club has been suspended for a year because their supporters chanted anti-semitic things while they were playing a Brussels team essentially made up of people from the Jewish community (things like 'Hitler was right, get the ovens going again', and so on). This is a problem I have with soccer. It's a beautiful game I love watching it but so many supporters from all countries are such ignorant fools.

Oh my god, that is so f***ing disgusting! :mad: :mad: :mad: These kids should be made to visit a Holocaust museum!

The Crow
Nov 19th, 2004, 12:11 PM
Apparently the crowd was also yelling anti-semitic slogans, so is anyone surprised when the kids of the team follow their example? :mad:

Tenisci
Nov 19th, 2004, 12:41 PM
our supporters do stupid things? and the turkish don't do jack right, i mean stabbing 2 people to death was real cool :rolleyes:

I THINK THAT THOSE PEOPLE DIDNT WANT TO STAB THEM. IT WAS ONLY AN ACCIDENT

veryborednow
Nov 19th, 2004, 01:02 PM
I THINK THAT THOSE PEOPLE DIDNT WANT TO STAB THEM. IT WAS ONLY AN ACCIDENT
Yes, the knife accidently gutted them :rolleyes:

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 19th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Thanks for that MS, it's good to see that it's getting publicity in Spain today. :yeah:

Alvarillo, thanks for the bad rep but at the end of the day you are the one in the wrong not me. I'm not petty enough to bad rep you back but I don't care what you say, Aragones calling Thierry Henry "A Black Shit" is racist and will obviously cause offence.

Evren, you're defending the indefenceable.

Alvarillo
Nov 19th, 2004, 01:25 PM
nononono i don't defend racism, i also think that Aragones used the wrong words but i also have to say that he did not say this words to offend Henry, but of course he used bad words....
The City of Madrid Comndens The Racist Songs
PP, PSOE and IU from the city of Madrid approve with unanimity this letter.

Durante el partido de fútbol que enfrentó el pasado miércoles a las selecciones española e inglesa se produjeron determinados gritos racistas que denotaban un comportamiento xenófobo de una minoría de los espectadores. Esas actitudes no representan en modo alguno el sentimiento mayoritario de nuestra ciudad. Madrid ha sido históricamente una ciudad de acogida, integradora y abierta, en la que nadie se siente extranjero. Madrid representa un modelo de convivencia abierto y tolerante, es un ejemplo de mestizaje e interculturalidad, fruto de una historia plural en la que conviven culturas, razas y nacionalidades.

Madrid quiere contribuir a la construcción de un mundo mejor y más pacífico, educando a la juventud a través del deporte practicado sin discriminaciones de ninguna clase. En su virtud, el Pleno del Ayuntamiento, al amparo del artículo 84 del Reglamento Orgánico del Pleno, acuerda manifestar su más enérgica condena de las actitudes xenófobas registradas durante el partido de fútbol entre las selecciones española e inglesa, y reafirmar la condición de Madrid como ciudad abierta a todas las culturas, religiones, razas y nacionalidades".

Bye

Emola
Nov 19th, 2004, 01:28 PM
I THINK THAT THOSE PEOPLE DIDNT WANT TO STAB THEM. IT WAS ONLY AN ACCIDENT
Oh dear, this is worrying the way you just dismiss these killings as an accident. There is NO WAY a football should lose his life going to a game, or in the scenes afterwards.

DelMonte
Nov 19th, 2004, 02:08 PM
Check this

http://www.marca.com/primeras/04/11/g1119.jpg

I fail to see the point of this since Zidane is not white anyway. His background/heritage is North African.

Cassius
Nov 19th, 2004, 02:13 PM
The thing about those 2 Leeds fans being stabbed by Gala fans is that the Leeds fans got drunk and were insulting Turkey, it's flag etc.
I'm in no way condoning stabbing someone (unless they are trying to stab you), but to go to a Muslim country and start insulting it is asking for trouble.
People have to remember that just because it wouldn't offend you if someone said something, it doesn't mean that no-one will be offended.

Emola
Nov 19th, 2004, 02:28 PM
I see your point Cassius. But I still dont think the fans deserved to lose their lives.

Anyway, every country has a long way to go concerning some of their football fans with racism and hooliganism etc. It's just a sad thing to hear about when you cant go out to watch your team/country play knowing that there are people there who just want to cause trouble. The minority of the idiots ruin it for everybody.

Cassius
Nov 19th, 2004, 02:34 PM
I see your point Cassius. But I still dont think the fans deserved to lose their
lives.Neither do I.
But I was just saying it's stupid to go to another country (esp. a Muslim one, where they take stuff like this more seriously), and start slagging it off.

I feel sorry for the victims' families, and I'm grateful that nothing like that has happened since.

Emola
Nov 19th, 2004, 02:35 PM
I know, I understand what you were saying. If you do stupid things, then somebody is going to retaliate. Sad state of affairs.

And ditto.

Dirty Sanchez
Nov 19th, 2004, 03:42 PM
Anyway, every country has a long way to go concerning some of their football fans with racism and hooliganism etc. It's just a sad thing to hear about when you cant go out to watch your team/country play knowing that there are people there who just want to cause trouble. The minority of the idiots ruin it for everybody.
Amen to that! We've just got to hope that FIFA and UEFA can sort these idiots out and protect the real football fans who go to support their team and enjoy the match!

DevilishAttitude
Nov 19th, 2004, 03:46 PM
Evren being ever more stupid than Alvrillo :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SJW
Nov 19th, 2004, 03:52 PM
I fail to see the point of this since Zidane is not white anyway. His background/heritage is North African.

exactly. doesn't he/his background originate from Algeria or something?

DelMonte
Nov 19th, 2004, 03:53 PM
Apparently the Spanish FA has sent a letter of apology to the English FA re the racist chanting. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4024433.stm

It's a good start, although I suspect this is as much about PR/damage control than about genuine regret. If this apology had come immediately after the game or even the day after, I would have been much more inclined to think it genuine. Still, a good start....

Cassius
Nov 19th, 2004, 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by DelMonte
I fail to see the point of this since Zidane is not white anyway. His background/heritage is North African.


exactly. doesn't he/his background originate from Algeria or something?Yes. His parents are Algerian, but I'm not sure if ZZ himself was born in Algeria or France.

DelMonte
Nov 19th, 2004, 04:00 PM
Yes. His parents are Algerian, but I'm not sure if ZZ himself was born in Algeria or France.

The Great Zizou was born in France. (Marsaille)

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 19th, 2004, 06:39 PM
Okay, why are we here defending our own hooligans lol? Shouldn't it be us against the hooligans instead of bickering who has the most/worst/... hooligans? :confused:
Well said :yeah:

Instead of this being an English disease or putting all Spaniards into the 'racist' category, let's ALL as football FANS, TOGETHER, get rid of the hooligans/racists as much as we can, whether English, Turkish, Spanish or Guatemalan

England's top flight has very little trouble these days, it's usually non football fans who travel with the national team.

However, this is not just an English problem, for example:

Spain on Wednesday - Spain fans chant racist abuse
Ferencvaros v Millwall - Millwall fans stabbed by Hungarians
Galatasaray v Leeds - 2 Leeds fans killed by Turks
Roma v Kiev - Italian fan throws missile at ref
Rome Derby - Roma fans cause delay and ultimate postponement
Lazio - always been a BIG hooligan element
Argentina - whole weekends have been cancelled because of hooligans

This is a FOOTBALL problem the world over, it is a minority of people from various cultures.

One thing it has done is virtually kill Madrid's Olympic 2012 bid

Tenisci
Nov 19th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Well said :yeah:

Instead of this being an English disease or putting all Spaniards into the 'racist' category, let's ALL as football FANS, TOGETHER, get rid of the hooligans/racists as much as we can, whether English, Turkish, Spanish or Guatemalan

England's top flight has very little trouble these days, it's usually non football fans who travel with the national team.

However, this is not just an English problem, for example:

Spain on Wednesday - Spain fans chant racist abuse
Ferencvaros v Millwall - Millwall fans stabbed by Hungarians
Galatasaray v Leeds - 2 Leeds fans killed by Turks
Roma v Kiev - Italian fan throws missile at ref
Rome Derby - Roma fans cause delay and ultimate postponement
Lazio - always been a BIG hooligan element
Argentina - whole weekends have been cancelled because of hooligans

This is a FOOTBALL problem the world over, it is a minority of people from various cultures.

One thing it has done is virtually kill Madrid's Olympic 2012 bid

ALL THE THREAD TURKS ARE PUNISHED. WHY ?

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 19th, 2004, 06:45 PM
I only mentioned Turks twice and the English alot more

Tenisci
Nov 19th, 2004, 06:54 PM
Sure Since They Are The Holigans As The World Knows

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 19th, 2004, 07:01 PM
Sure Since They Are The Holigans As The World Knows
Yeah, but that's YOU generalising again, not any English Man or Woman

Tenisci
Nov 19th, 2004, 07:06 PM
Sorry You Are Right

Generalizing Is Not Good

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 19th, 2004, 07:12 PM
I don't mean any offence, but we can't call all English 'hooligans', all Turks 'stabbers' all Spaniards 'Racist' or all Czechs 'headless chickens'

This is not the case, it's the minority in every country and WE as FOOTBALL FANS must get together and strive to get these HOOLIGANS AND RACISTS out of Football

Tenisci
Nov 19th, 2004, 07:14 PM
I don't mean any offence, but we can't call all English 'hooligans', all Turks 'stabbers' all Spaniards 'Racist' or all Czechs 'headless chickens'

This is not the case, it's the minority in every country and WE as FOOTBALL FANS must get together and strive to get these HOOLIGANS AND RACISTS out of Football

THAT'S :yeah:

MS
Nov 19th, 2004, 07:48 PM
well said! ;)

MS
Nov 19th, 2004, 07:50 PM
One thing it has done is virtually kill Madrid's Olympic 2012 bid
Yeah, this doesn't help at all. It had also been said that this was a test to see if Madrid could be a permanent venue for the Spanish team in the important matches, this doesn't help, although Madrid aren't guilty, but this people that shouted should be banned, not ppossible, anyway....

SJW
Nov 19th, 2004, 09:41 PM
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2004532497,00.html

THE racism of Spanish football was last night laid bare by Levante star Felix Ettien.
The Ivory Coast striker revealed the shocking racial abuse he has suffered during seven years in La Liga.

Ettien, 25, is currently enjoying his best-ever season in Spain with newly-promoted Levante after overcoming sickening treatment.

But he insists he has been scarred by the horrors he has endured since arriving in Spain in 1997, including being treated “like a leper” by his own team-mates
--------------------------------------

it was in the sun today but they only have a little bit online

Alvarillo
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:02 PM
London 2012 (which was the third candidate city by puntuation afer Paris & Madrid) wants to kill Madrid 2012 with this problem but i think is more important that the 4.000.000 million people from this city did after Madrid Bombings in March 11th that the attitude of only some hundreds of people some nights ago.
Millions vs Hundreds .....

DevilishAttitude
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:15 PM
London 2012 (which was the third candidate city by puntuation afer Paris & Madrid) wants to kill Madrid 2012 with this problem but i think is more important that the 4.000.000 million people from this city did after Madrid Bombings in March 11th that the attitude of only some hundreds of people some nights ago.
Millions vs Hundreds .....

Please don't use the feel sorry for us thing :rolleyes:

Our country wouldn't make monkey noises when a black player won gold :rolleyes:

Alvarillo
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:24 PM
London 2012 won't win because his project is behind Paris and Madrid and need to do demagogy with thins like this (or buying votes....)
byebye

DevilishAttitude
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:36 PM
If Madrid wins it will be a disgrace and has pretty much ruined its chances anyway

Byebye :wavey:

propi
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:45 PM
I didn't see the match as I was away but... I've read Spanish newspapers and THEY all have reflected what happened in the match showing true shame.
Second... as everyone here with a brain has said before let's not fall in generalizations... not everyone is evil just because in a paper it's said he's from wherever. The overwhelming majority of Spain is agaisnt racism, that's a fact, as it's in any well intended country of this world we're living in.
If Madrid wins it will be a disgrace and has pretty much ruined its chances anyway
Byebye :wavey:And finally... no, if Madrid wins the games will be a Universal party as it's every 4 years when Olympics are. Madrid 2012 and the Olympics... well it's quite clear their options are smaller now... however their chances (and London) were already pretty slim as Paris is the big favourite and will host those games.

Alvarillo
Nov 19th, 2004, 10:53 PM
The only disgrace here is you who say that not all English are hooligans but say that if a black wins a medal in Madrid will recieve monkey noises.

Emola
Nov 20th, 2004, 12:29 AM
btw David, who calls Czechs headless chickens? :confused: you better not be talking about Baros :p

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 20th, 2004, 01:21 AM
London 2012 (which was the third candidate city by puntuation afer Paris & Madrid) wants to kill Madrid 2012 with this problem but i think is more important that the 4.000.000 million people from this city did after Madrid Bombings in March 11th that the attitude of only some hundreds of people some nights ago.
Millions vs Hundreds .....

The British newspapers are campaigning to get Madrid the boot from the Olympic bid.

Personally i think Madrid blew it for Spain on Wednesday and i think Paris will get it anyway

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 20th, 2004, 01:22 AM
I didn't see the match as I was away but... I've read Spanish newspapers and THEY all have reflected what happened in the match showing true shame.
Second... as everyone here with a brain has said before let's not fall in generalizations... not everyone is evil just because in a paper it's said he's from wherever. The overwhelming majority of Spain is agaisnt racism, that's a fact, as it's in any well intended country of this world we're living in.
And finally... no, if Madrid wins the games will be a Universal party as it's every 4 years when Olympics are. Madrid 2012 and the Olympics... well it's quite clear their options are smaller now... however their chances (and London) were already pretty slim as Paris is the big favourite and will host those games.
Indeed, Paris will most likely get the games

Emola
Nov 20th, 2004, 01:22 AM
so do I after seeing Beckham on the offical advert :rolleyes: :p

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 20th, 2004, 01:23 AM
btw David, who calls Czechs headless chickens? :confused: you better not be talking about Baros :p
oops:lol:

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 20th, 2004, 01:24 AM
so do I after seeing Beckham on the offical advert :rolleyes: :p
Who is he backing? Madrid or London?

Emola
Nov 20th, 2004, 01:26 AM
oops:lol:
You were, weren't you :fiery: :sad:

and thats a good point about Beckham I never thought about that lol. But he's backing London

DevilishAttitude
Nov 20th, 2004, 12:14 PM
The only disgrace here is you who say that not all English are hooligans but say that if a black wins a medal in Madrid will recieve monkey noises.

The British aren't all hooligans :)
Some idiots probably would make monkey noises if a black person won gold :rolleyes:

Im the disgrace :tape: :tape: coming from you :tape: :tape:

The Crow
Nov 26th, 2004, 10:46 AM
OMG, 'fans' of my fav team (Club Brugge) did the same thing yesterday. Disgusting! :(

Halardfan
Nov 26th, 2004, 11:13 AM
England, over the last 20 or 30 years has rightly has a bad reuptation for hooloiganism, and indeed not so long ago racial abuse was quite common.

It was important that the FA, football clubs and fans took a stand an say this was unacceptable and to take strong action. This has lead to an improvement, chants are much rarer, at least those against black players

It is far from perfect now, but there has been progress, enough that when we play in Madrid and hears racist chants from hundreds/thousands it comes as a shock.

There has to be a understanding in Spain of how serious this is, of how the managers stupid comments fed into mindless chants from a small but significant minorty of the fans.

A few days back a couple of Blackburn fans were brought up on similar charges, I think they got lengthy bans from attending any football grounds.

I think at the very least those hundreds /thousands in Madrid need the same treatment...a qualifying match or two played behind closed doors in Spain is also in order....as is the sacking of the manager.

OUT!
Nov 26th, 2004, 01:16 PM
The British newspapers are campaigning to get Madrid the boot from the Olympic bid.

Personally i think Madrid blew it for Spain on Wednesday and i think Paris will get it anyway:lol: :tape: Yeah they won't win now.

Alvarillo
Nov 26th, 2004, 02:13 PM
we will see what happens, but i have confidence because we have the best project, after the first election Paris and New York had to copy the main aspects of our dossier so ... Paris is the favourite but also was favourite against Barcelona some years ago and Bcn won and then organised the best Games .....

Experimentee
Nov 26th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Its so funny when people say "I cant be racist I have black friends" :rolleyes:

Stamp Paid
Nov 26th, 2004, 05:44 PM
"Making monkey noises"? How primitive and disrespectful.