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Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 07:51 PM
A Russian-American guy I worked with last year said that America was becoming more like the old Soviet Union.

Agree or disagree?

ys
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:09 PM
Absolutely.. Conservatism, puritanism, hypocrisy, corruption, arrogance in foreign policy...

Look at US . Leadership.. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz.. They look like old good Soviet f@cking Politburo.. Old folks with gloomy faces, steely resolve on those faces.. It's like getting back to 1979.. BTW, Cheney reminds me Andropov very much..

Hulet
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:20 PM
As a person who lived 17 years of his life in "communist" country ("communist" by name only but outright dictatorship in reality), I tend to agree that there are some similarities. Especially during the convention (I don't want to say which), the similarities were so apparent that it comes as a shock even to me (despite my being a proud skeptist of democracies in the first place); the whole "War" theme, the "decisive leader" mantra, the coronation of a leader with a "vision" which nobody is capable of seeing, the scare tactics used to frighten the general public of change and the opposition, etc. - all very, very familiar. It's as if I was transported back 7 or 8 years, watching the "Worker's party" nominate the "decisive leader" - the man who never hesitates in face of adversity and the enemies of the state - to another coronation.

It might seem like I am exaggerating. But, believe me I am not.

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:23 PM
Especially during the convention (I don't want to say which).
Hmmm. I wonder which convention it is :scratch: ;)

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:54 PM
BTW, Cheney reminds me Andropov very much..I couldn't help myself. http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/devil.gif

Who is who?

http://images.pravda.ru/images/newsline/Andropov.jpg http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/cheney.jpg
"He speaks English and he likes scotch, but he is not a card-carrying member of the American Civil Liberties Union." --Cheney on Andropov

Dick Cheney growled out a speech that was reminiscent of General Secretary Andropov on a bad day. The audience loved him anyway. When he spoke of George Bush never seeking "a permission slip to defend the American people", they burst into chants of "Four more years!". Nobody expected lofty rhetoric from this particular vice-president. Mr Cheney's talent is not for the theatrics of power, but for the mechanics. --The Economist on Cheney's appearance at MSG 2004.

PointBlank
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Yes

flyingmachine
Nov 4th, 2004, 11:12 PM
:eek: I was surprise people saying America is increasely become more like the old Soviet Union. :eek: Well since I don't live in the US it's very difficult to tell from an insider. Anyway, this not a good news for America in the long term. If things like that carrys on. Some people especailly politicians in the States always speaking about America as a land of the free, freedom the leader of the free world etc. But in reality it seems they going in a direction that anything but free.

Bacardi
Nov 4th, 2004, 11:19 PM
Agree. We're losing more and more rights everyday. In fact, dare I say it, the Communist days of Russia might look like Sunshine to those of us in the USA in another 4 years.

cheesestix
Nov 5th, 2004, 12:36 AM
Agree. We're losing more and more rights everyday. In fact, dare I say it, the Communist days of Russia might look like Sunshine to those of us in the USA in another 4 years.

Another ludicrous statement.

Maybe you should do a little research on Communism before making such a STUPID statement. :rolleyes: America is NOWHERE NEAR what Communist Russia was like. Where do you come up with such BS statements?

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Why don't you answer the question that was posed to you by several posters on this board. Give a good, reliable answer as to why in the hell you or anyone else would vote for Bush. What good has the man done?

Why don't you go look at some images of what he's done to the innocent children of Iraq with his WAR FOR OIL and pissing contest with Saddam!

ys
Nov 5th, 2004, 01:14 AM
OK. lets not mix oranges and apples. American life is nothing like Soviet life.. You have no clue what Soviet life is.. Really impossible to even compare.. At this point at least..

Things related to American state machine and politics are indeed starting to look very similar. Or, if you have to go to some American governmental office, like INS, IRS, SS, the ( seemingly affirmative action ) clerks working over there, in their little enjoyment of having power over you and having a chance to treat like a shit, they are incredibly reminiscent of lower level workers of Soviet/Russian beaurocracy..

cheesestix
Nov 5th, 2004, 01:24 AM
Why don't you answer the question that was posed to you by several posters on this board. Give a good, reliable answer as to why in the hell you or anyone else would vote for Bush. What good has the man done?

Why don't you go look at some images of what he's done to the innocent children of Iraq with his WAR FOR OIL and pissing contest with Saddam!

I've already explained why I voted for Bush. That's the best fucking argument that you've got? To ask that question repeatedly? :rolleyes:

Why don't you explain how America is EVEN CLOSE to what Communist Russia was? You can't. Because you pull statements like this out of your ass constantly.

In your opinion:

Iraq = Vietnam
Bush = Hitler
America = Communist Russia

Damn, you REALLY need to get some perspective! You're just repeating what you keep hearing other libs saying, because if you ACTUALLY knew anything about it, you wouldn't make such STUPID comparisons. :rolleyes:

For the record:

Vietnam - 58K Americans died. No comparison.

Hitler - Killed OVER SIX MILLION Jews and invaded most of Europe, killing who knows how many more. SIX MILLION! Let that number sink in really good! And you don't wanna know what it was like living in Nazi Germany (yet you're so quick to compare it to America). And you have the audacity to compare GWB to Hitler? :rolleyes:

Grow up! I'll bet you're some 18 year old kid who thinks he knows everything. But it's coming out more and more with every word that you type. You don't know shit. You just parrot every catch phrase that you hear other libs saying. :rolleyes:

cheesestix
Nov 5th, 2004, 01:28 AM
OK. lets not mix oranges and apples. American life is nothing like Soviet life.. You have no clue what Soviet life is.. Really impossible to even compare.. At this point at least..

That's what I'm saying!

That guy has NO CLUE! He just says that shit because he heard it from someone else. But I'll bet you he can't draw any correlations economically or otherwise between America and the USSR.

He also compared Bush to Hitler.

Can you say NO PERSPECTIVE?

Geez.

ys
Nov 5th, 2004, 01:55 AM
In your opinion:

Iraq = Vietnam
Bush = Hitler
America = Communist Russia

More interesting parallels would be , as I suggested..

Iraq=Afghanistan
Cheney=Andropov
America=USSR

Tennis Fool
Nov 5th, 2004, 02:00 AM
More interesting parallels would be , as I suggested..

Iraq=Afghanistan
Cheney=Andropov
America=USSR
Hmmm. My Russian coworker also said that there are parallels between the USSR's war with Afghanistan and the Vietnam War. So maybe there is a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

Anyway, he said the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan was a monumental waste of time and lives.

ys
Nov 5th, 2004, 02:20 AM
Hmmm. My Russian coworker also said that there are parallels between the USSR's war with Afghanistan and the Vietnam War. So maybe there is a parallel between Iraq and Vietnam.

Anyway, he said the USSR's invasion of Afghanistan was a monumental waste of time and lives.
The parallels between Iraqi war and Afghanistan war are much more profound.. Soviets, just like Americans, invaded a naturally peaceful country, where the population was really not agressive, was used to earn their living by work. The invasion irreversibly transformed that peacefullness into the opposite. Significant part of population got very radicalised, stopped to earn living by working and became professional guerillas. Once it happens, there is no way back.. There is no way you can get those people back to peaceful life..

Afganistan became a center of gravitation for Islamists of all world, because it provided available targets - Soviet soldiers, easy ways to train, fight and die for Islam.. Within just a couple of years Afghanistan was full of very well trained and experienced guerillas..

The same is now happening in Iraq.. Conisider this.. Anger against USA and Israel was big even before the invasion. But what could they do? Israel was pretty much impenetrable, and American targets in Arab countries were not really available for attack either because those were in Arab states.. Now you have the whole middle-east country, full of Americans available to kill. Arab youngsters will be going to Iraq in hundreds. There will be no shortage of them.

Tennis Fool
Nov 5th, 2004, 02:31 AM
Why did the USSR invade Afghanistan in the first place?

tenn_ace
Nov 5th, 2004, 04:51 AM
I've been saying this for 4 years....

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:01 AM
Bush = Hitler
And you have the audacity to compare GWB to Hitler? :rolleyes:

Grow up! I'll bet you're some 18 year old kid who thinks he knows everything. But it's coming out more and more with every word that you type. You don't know shit. You just parrot every catch phrase that you hear other libs saying. :rolleyes:

http://www.jeffhead.com/images/downflag.jpg

Bush does equal Hitler and the Nazi way of thinking, want some proof cheesy? :o

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along wether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing their country to danger. It works the same in every country" Hermann GOERING, Hitler's Reich-marhall at the Nuremberg trials after WW2

We will accept no outcome except complete victory" George W Bush 2003

"Do you believe in the final total victory?" Joseph Goebbels 1943

"God told me to strike Al-Queda, and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East" George W. Bush

"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. I am doing the Lord's work. God is with us." Adolf Hitler

And furthermore since I am sure you are a Christian to support such a hypocritical man, please read the following passage in YOUR OWN BIBLE.

"The Prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not neither have I commanded them, niether spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deciet of their own heart" Jeremiah 14:14

Read the entire 14's passage, and see it wasn't taken out of context. Beware false prophets. Damn it's going to be easy for most of you to fall for the Anti-Christ when he comes to eart, this just proves it.

Also for your information I'm 25 years old, I've worked for the past 5 years, have a college degree and am a female. So you were way off on your view of me. Also bet you wouldn't have guessted I voted for Hitler Bush in 2000 either? I can admit I made a mistake the world paid for over the past 4 years, I wasn't going to make the world pay another 4 years for my ignorance this time around.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:29 AM
That's what I'm saying!

That guy has NO CLUE! He just says that shit because he heard it from someone else. But I'll bet you he can't draw any correlations economically or otherwise between America and the USSR.

He also compared Bush to Hitler.

Can you say NO PERSPECTIVE?

Geez.
You do realize that you're arguing with Bacardi in this thread... don't you? Even some of the liberal posters find her offensive, in case you hadn't noticed ;)

jelena4me
Nov 5th, 2004, 10:16 AM
I think Bacardi has some very interesting points to make.

Surely we should be all be searching for more knowledge and enlightenment, rather than being sure we know the answers already.

But one of my concerns with Bush is that he is CONVINCED that his worldview is correct and is CONVINCED of his own importance.

He's like a thousand Maggie Thatchers all rolled into one, he makes Ronald Reagain look like Laurel and Hardy.

pla
Nov 5th, 2004, 12:40 PM
A Russian-American guy I worked with last year said that America was becoming more like the old Soviet Union.

Agree or disagree?

Agree. Slowly but surely (I hope not that surely) America's discurs and politics turn to become closer to what we were hearing and living in the ex-commy block. Ok, it's not there yet, but I prefere to ring the bell before it's too late.

My husband and I, both Bulgarians, we were noticing that for almost tree years now. It's scary! We were talking with a Belgium friend before the war on Iraq and he refused to believe us - now he see it with his own eyes, unfortunately.

The biggest problem is that the so called communism was mainly imposed to the populations by the mean of big attrocities while the USA is going there (once again I hope it stops soon) by it's own will :o .

I would like to add that the main thing supporting the democracy is the economical prosperity. Let's hope the USA doesn't experience a big economy-crash.

Don't get me wrong, I don't say we lived the same life as Americans do, I just say that a big part of the USA population, as seen during the last vote, is ready to put away it's own rights for the sake of an ephemeral feeling of security - this is the door wide open to non-democratic actions in the future.

The subject is very complex and I doubt that with a forum discussion we will understand the extend of the "movement" but I tend to agree with what your friend said.

Grachka
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:58 PM
I'm not so sure, i think it is turning into something different from what the old USSR used to be. I only went to the USSR a couple of times in the later years of the rule, but it seems to me that the USA's slide is dangerously silent, almost subversive. If you look at the Soviet Union, the lack of freedoms was obvious, trumpeted almost, but in America its presented as something else entirely, and the politicians are absolutely playing their subjects like a violin.

As an example, look at Iraq. The American population is, with good reason, notoriously touchy and paranoid about being a target for terrorism, and as a result the political elite tighten security and curtail rights "in the name of national security". In a wave of patriotism these measures are accepted as the norm. It seems to me that America is turning into a creeping, aggressive authoritarian regime.