PDA

View Full Version : Is democracy over-rated?


Hulet
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:55 PM
You still live under a dictatorship - the dictatorship of the majority. That's if you are not part of the majority.

strike86
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Nah I don't think democracys overated.

Paneru
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:18 PM
Well, I was tol by my Soc. professor that this(USA)
isn't a true democracy but, more a socialist society.

Hulet
Nov 4th, 2004, 03:17 PM
How is USA a socialist society, Kabuke? And, how does one exclude the other? Can't you have socialism with democracy and vice versa?

Bacardi
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:50 PM
You have a point, several of us that dislike this Administration are now trapped by it. Show up wearing an Anti-Bush tshirt, or an Anti-Bush sticker on your car and watch how quickly they watch you for trouble.

Bush is like a Dictator, he's taking away more and more rights everyday.

ys
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:54 PM
Democracy produced Hitler. Didn't it? It's just the same it was 2000 years ago.. Feed and entertain..

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 07:48 PM
Well, I was tol by my Soc. professor that this(USA)
isn't a true democracy but, more a socialist society.
Do you mean "republic"? This isn't a true democracy but a republic (a representative democracy).

Paneru
Nov 4th, 2004, 07:57 PM
Do you mean "republic"? This isn't a true democracy but a republic (a representative democracy).

Yeah, I think that's it.
Thanks for that correction.

He said it but,
didn't fully explain it.

I'll have to talk to him
next time.

Sally Struthers
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:06 PM
You still live under a dictatorship - the dictatorship of the majority. That's if you are not part of the majority.


Well what the hell do you want? Anarchy where everyone does whatever the hell they want? Yeah that'll work out real well :rolleyes:. It's only a dictatorship by the majority as you put it because the person you wanted to win did not. Whatever system of government you use will have people bitching whenever they don't get what they want. Democracy just allows for more people to be satisfied at the result.

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:07 PM
A democracy: Each and every person has the power to vote directly on the issues in our lives.

A republic: A person or group of people are elected to represent you and me. We elect councilman, state senators, congressmen, and senators to represent our views. Not every single American can directly go to the council meeting, state assemby meeting, or Congress and vote on every issue.

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:08 PM
Well what the hell do you want? Anarchy where everyone does whatever the hell they want? Yeah that'll work out real well :rolleyes:. It's only a dictatorship by the majority as you put it because the person you wanted to win did not. Whatever system of government you use will have people bitching whenever they don't get what they want. Democracy just allows for more people to be satisfied at the result.I like pluralistic democracy myself :)

Hulet
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:34 PM
Well what the hell do you want? Anarchy where everyone does whatever the hell they want? Yeah that'll work out real well :rolleyes:. It's only a dictatorship by the majority as you put it because the person you wanted to win did not. Whatever system of government you use will have people bitching whenever they don't get what they want. Democracy just allows for more people to be satisfied at the result.
Actually, anarchy (the sort depicted on Ursula Le Guin's "The Dispossessed") is my ideal system of governance. :) But I know that's impractical in today's world - or may be forever.

Actually, this thread is not specifically directed at the U.S. election, nor did I start "bitching" about democracy because Bush won. The U.S. (the "greatest" democracy) election just confirmed my ever-nagging suspicion that, if you gave a lot of people, who don't have a thorough understanding of the issues of this world or their own country, a chance to elect those who govern them, the result is they will end up disappointing you. And, it so happens that that is the character of most of the human population, not only of USians. For example, look at the Cypriot referendum - they had a great chance to make a peace on divided island, but guess what they chose?

Btw, I am not saying democracy is all bad, just that it's not as cracked up as it usually is.

Borris
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:24 PM
When they show the American senate or congres, I mostly see upper-class white men.

I have the impression that the American society isn't represented as well as it could be.

How does it work anyway? Can you vote directly for a candidate, and how do the votes count? And does one have to be able to raise a lot of funds to have a chance?

Bacardi
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:38 PM
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler/shirts1-sameshit.jpg

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:44 PM
When they show the American senate or congres, I mostly see upper-class white men.

I have the impression that the American society isn't represented as well as it could be.

How does it work anyway?
Can you vote directly for a candidate, Yes.

how do the votes count? It's not the popular vote that counts, but the number of electoral votes. Electoral votes a candidate receives is based on the number that are available per state. The more populous a state is, the more electoral votes available. For instance New York, Pennsylvania have more electoral votes available that a bigger-sized state like Nevada or New Mexico.

If a candidate gets a majority (51%) of the popular vote, they get all of the states electoral votes.

There are 270 electoral votes available. The candidate who receives the majority of the electoral votes wins.

[And does one have to be able to raise a lot of funds to have a chance?[/QUOTE]
You have to basically be a millionaire.

Borris
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:54 PM
Yes.

It's not the popular vote that counts, but the number of electoral votes. Electoral votes a candidate receives is based on the number that are available per state. The more populous a state is, the more electoral votes available. For instance New York, Pennsylvania have more electoral votes available that a bigger-sized state like Nevada or New Mexico.

If a candidate gets a majority (51%) of the popular vote, they get all of the states electoral votes.

There are 270 electoral votes available. The candidate who receives the majority of the electoral votes wins.

[And does one have to be able to raise a lot of funds to have a chance?
You have to basically be a millionaire.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but's the presidential voting proces you explained right?

I wanted to know for the congres and the senate, or is it the same?

Maybe the USA should think of limiting the campaign.

In our country a political party can only spend a (rather low) maximum amount of money on their campaign, and gifts from companies, lobbyists of certain interest groups (like the oil and alcohol business), etc.. are stricly prohibited and is strictly being controlled, so not to much money is waisted on posters (=killed trees) and commercials, candidates don't have to be a millionaire, and politicans can amuse themselves with real problems.

Mariangelina
Nov 4th, 2004, 11:48 PM
Democracy does kinda suck, and a lot of things can go wrong, such as this election, but most other systems are worse. :sad: