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lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:26 PM
America's social problems?

I have a few for you to deal with and I'd love to see what your solutions are. The first is all the unwanted and neglected children now in foster care, most of who are black, Hispanic and biracial. I don't see many couples, especially you loving white Christians:rolleyes: , adopting these children. So what do you suggest we do with these children since you don't want them to go back to their parents?

Second, what do you suggest we do with all the unwed women who would like to terminate their unwated pregnancies and you would like to prevent them from doing so. When they are pregnant, it is too late to talk about abstinance, so will you take them in and care for them and their unborn child?

Third, what are you going to do about the 50% divorce rate in the US? According to an article posted here a few days ago, Massachusetts, that evil liberal Northeastern state, has the lowest divorce rate in the nation, while divorce rates in the South, where most conservative Christians live, tend to have the higest. How the hell are you going to talk to the rest of us about fidelity when it is clear that your reigon of the country has a hard time practicing what you preach.

I have a few more, but I'll wait for the answers on these first.

Osama_Bin_Laden
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:41 PM
:haha:YOU GOT LOVE AMERICANSإلى الاخوه الاعزاء
اشكر لكم تجاوبكم معي
وارجوا المعذره على التأخر في الرد
ولكم اجمل تحيه
:lol:BUSH WINS AGAINابوعبدالله

Jeleno Benesovo
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:42 PM
There is an old saying: "Each country has the governments they deserves"...

considering how many of the US citizens voted for "Dumbya" you really deserves him and to suffer the consequences, the problem is that we (the outsiders), who don't like him, are gonna suffer him probably even more than you. :mad: Thank you so much for the present! :rolleyes:

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:43 PM
There is an old saying: "Each country has the governments they deserves"...

considering how many of the US citizens voted for "Dumbya" you really deserves him and to suffer the consequences, the problem is that we (the outsiders), who don't like him, are gonna suffer him probably even more than you. :Mad: Thank you so much for the present! :rolleyes:

Don't thank me; I didn't vote for the bastard.

Philbo
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:50 PM
Lizchris - YOu have my utmost sympathy.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:53 PM
Lizchris - YOu have my utmost sympathy.

Thank you:kiss:

The next four years are going to be hell in the US if you are not the right color, gender, sexual preference and live in a certain region.

Couver
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:55 PM
Liz I feel for you Too.

Christian Conservatives make me :scared:

I do thank my God that I'm not American right now.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:00 PM
Liz I feel for you Too.

Christian Conservatives make me :scared:

I do thank my God that I'm not American right now.

Thank you too.:kiss:

ptkten
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:01 PM
I know, I can't believe us in the Northeast have to deal with this crap because people in the rest of the country are idiots.

*Karen*
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:03 PM
What difference does it make who is in power. All the social problems will still exist. All politicians, regardless of the party, will promise you the world, but won't deliver fuck all.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:03 PM
I know, I can't believe us in the Northeast have to deal with this crap because people in the rest of the country are idiots.

I wouldn't call them idiots, but they are seriously misguided if they think morals are the biggest problem in this country. American morals have been in the gutter since the late 1950's.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:09 PM
What difference does it make who is in power. All the social problems will still exist. All politicians, regardless of the party, will promise you the world, but won't deliver fuck all.

It makes a difference now because Bush supporters say morals are our biggest problem, so I am looking for them to fix the problem since they seem to know so much.

Fingon
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:10 PM
America's social problems?

I have a few for you to deal with and I'd love to see what your solutions are. The first is all the unwanted and neglected children now in foster care, most of who are black, Hispanic and biracial. I don't see many couples, especially you loving white Christians , adopting these children. So what do you suggest we do with these children since you don't want them to go back to their parents?

Second, what do you suggest we do with all the unwed women who would like to terminate their unwated pregnancies and you would like to prevent them from doing so. When they are pregnant, it is too late to talk about abstinance, so will you take them in and care for them and their unborn child?

Third, what are you going to do about the 50% divorce rate in the US? According to an article posted here a few days ago, Massachusetts, that evil liberal Northeastern state, has the lowest divorce rate in the nation, while divorce rates in the South, where most conservative Christians live, tend to have the higest. How the hell are you going to talk to the rest of us about fidelity when it is clear that your reigon of the country has a hard time practicing what you preach.

I have a few more, but I'll wait for the answers on these first.
OK, I didn't vote for Bush, obviously, and I am not even American, but I have to answer this.

Let's put it this way, supposing I knew nothing about Bush or Kerry, and came to this board so the "intellectual" posters here would enlighten me, I would have probably be scared, speechless, and as clueless as at the beginning.

And if I were stupid enough to believe that this board truely reflects what American think, they I would believe that liberals are stupid bigots with not a slightest clue and that republican are hmmm, stupid bigots with not a slightest clue.

That's what fanaticsm makes, that's what happens when you speak with your heart and not with your mind.

Haven't you ever thought that maybe, just maybe someone could have voted for Bush because he/she likes [b]some[b/] Bush policies? and that area is more important for that voter than other? and that it doesn't mean that voter agrees with Bush on EVERYTHING, have you ever heard of trade-offs?

What if voter A is for gay marriage, abortion, free medicare, and he/she very much prefers Kerry's proposal on these issues but, big but, this voter prefers Bush's position on terrorism (right or wrong, that's what he/she prefers) and it happens that but this person, terrorism outweights all the other areas, so the person voted Bush.

Does it mean that this person is against gay marriage, or protecting children or whatever? not necessarily, it only means that taking everything into consideration, he/she considered Bush was a better choice.

This is the problem with all arguments on this board, especially those carried on by the "intellectuals", it's black and white, there are no grays, they criticize Bush but they are just like him, you are with me or you are against me.

Didn't you ever think that many Bush supporters could disagree with Kerry's supporters on terrorism but agree on stem cells research? the position of some posters (not necessarily you) is, fuck off, you voted Bush, burn in hell.

Bush is the president and you have to deal with it but, maybe even among Bush supporters there are some people that don't agree with some of his policies, maybe those who supported Kerry could look into trying to be the best out of this and work in the areas of common interest instead of breaking all the links because of disagreements in other areas.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:14 PM
OK, I didn't vote for Bush, obviously, and I am not even American, but I have to answer this.

Let's put it this way, supposing I knew nothing about Bush or Kerry, and came to this board so the "intellectual" posters here would enlighten me, I would have probably be scared, speechless, and as clueless as at the beginning.

And if I were stupid enough to believe that this board truely reflects what American think, they I would believe that liberals are stupid bigots with not a slightest clue and that republican are hmmm, stupid bigots with not a slightest clue.

That's what fanaticsm makes, that's what happens when you speak with your heart and not with your mind.

Haven't you ever thought that maybe, just maybe someone could have voted for Bush because he/she likes [b]some[b/] Bush policies? and that area is more important for that voter than other? and that it doesn't mean that voter agrees with Bush on EVERYTHING, have you ever heard of trade-offs?

What if voter A is for gay marriage, abortion, free medicare, and he/she very much prefers Kerry's proposal on these issues but, big but, this voter prefers Bush's position on terrorism (right or wrong, that's what he/she prefers) and it happens that but this person, terrorism outweights all the other areas, so the person voted Bush.

Does it mean that this person is against gay marriage, or protecting children or whatever? not necessarily, it only means that taking everything into consideration, he/she considered Bush was a better choice.

This is the problem with all arguments on this board, especially those carried on by the "intellectuals", it's black and white, there are no grays, they criticize Bush but they are just like him, you are with me or you are against me.

Didn't you ever think that many Bush supporters could disagree with Kerry's supporters on terrorism but agree on stem cells research? the position of some posters (not necessarily you) is, fuck off, you voted Bush, burn in hell.

Bush is the president and you have to deal with it but, maybe even among Bush supporters there are some people that don't agree with some of his policies, maybe those who supported Kerry could look into trying to be the best out of this and work in the areas of common interest instead of breaking all the links because of disagreements in other areas.

People who voted for Bush cleary stated that they disagree with Kerry on mostly everything.

The reason why I started this thred was because morals were the main reason most people who voted for Bush voted for him. So if they are truly concerned about morals, they'd better start coming up with solutions to the moral problems instead of pointing fingers at sinners.

Veegeta
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:35 PM
First thing that comes to mind usually aren't my best ideals....

1st children license (you must already have a sex license)

2nd Sex license (I can think of some pretty good guidlines for this one)

3rd Unlike the first two Marriage already is regulated and to terminate that marriage there are legal procedures already in place. I fail to see why divorce as an issue.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:37 PM
First thing that comes to mind usually aren't my best ideals....

1st children license (you must already have a sex license)

2nd Sex license (I can think of some pretty good guidlines for this one)

3rd Unlike the first two Marriage already is regulated and to terminate that marriage there are legal procedures already in place. I fail to see why divorce as an issue.

You're right; about that.

How would you regulate who can who can't have sex?

nash
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:40 PM
People who voted for Bush cleary stated that they disagree with Kerry on mostly everything.

The reason why I started this thred was because morals were the main reason most people who voted for Bush voted for him. So if they are truly concerned about morals, they'd better start coming up with solutions to the moral problems instead of pointing fingers at sinners.
O.K. You're not gonna like what I have to say, but since you asked....

The solution to moral problems does not come from the government. It comes from repentence and faith in Jesus Christ.

The world is spiraling down the drain due to immorality. Children in foster care or orphanages have in most cases (but not all), been abused or neglected. That's immoral. Unwanted pregnancies, for the most part (please note that I didn't say ALL), are the result of immoral premarital sex. AIDS, for the most part (again not ALL), is the result of immoral sexual relationships and/or drug use.

To stop these social issues from spiraling completely out of control, we've got to reach the root of the problem, which is the morals of our society.

Now, in the mean time, we should try to help those in need. Orphans need parents. Scared young pregant ladies need support, counseling, and help with life skills. Our churches should be stepping up to the challenge and ministering to the needs of those who are hurting. But none of this will be effective in the long run as long as society continues to turn from God's established moral principles.

This is just my opinion. Feel free to blast me if you wish. But please don't blast other Christians or Republicans for my opinions.

Thanks,

-Nash-

flyingmachine
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:45 PM
Liz I feel for you Too.

Christian Conservatives make me :scared:

I do thank my God that I'm not American right now.
I think Christian Conservativism will be a growing problem for US for the next 10 to 20 years.
Like you I'm grateful that I'm not an American.

Veegeta
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:48 PM
Unlike the Children License you don't need a job.
Condemns Birth Control, Depo shots (I know that the wrong spelling for that word) would play a huge role....
No one is allowed to engage in sex without proper screening (STD)
With these two license there goes most of the social problems.....

Of course there are legal ramification for breaking the law....

You know what I heard thatís starting to come back to me? Religions are put in place to keep the people under control. Again another random thought, I can also think of more ways that people are controlled.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:50 PM
O.K. You're not gonna like what I have to say, but since you asked....

The solution to moral problems does not come from the government. It comes from repentence and faith in Jesus Christ.

The world is spiraling down the drain due to immorality. Children in foster care or orphanages have in most cases (but not all), been abused or neglected. That's immoral. Unwanted pregnancies, for the most part (please note that I didn't say ALL), are the result of immoral premarital sex. AIDS, for the most part (again not ALL), is the result of immoral sexual relationships and/or drug use.

To stop these social issues from spiraling completely out of control, we've got to reach the root of the problem, which is the morals of our society.

Now, in the mean time, we should try to help those in need. Orphans need parents. Scared young pregant ladies need support, counseling, and help with life skills. Our churches should be stepping up to the challenge and ministering to the needs of those who are hurting. But none of this will be effective in the long run as long as society continues to turn from God's established moral principles.

This is just my opinion. Feel free to blast me if you wish. But please don't blast other Christians or Republicans for my opinions.

Thanks,

-Nash-

I have no problems with what you said, but the problem I have with Christian conservatives is that they are not compasionate enough to solve these problems because they are too busy finger pointing.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:52 PM
Unlike the Children License you don't need a job.
Condemns Birth Control, Depo shots (I know that the wrong spelling for that word) would play a huge role....
No one is allowed to engage in sex without proper screening (STD)
With these two license there goes most of the social problems.....

Of course there are legal ramification for breaking the law....

You know what I heard thatís starting to come back to me? Religions are put in place to keep the people under control. Again another random thought, I can also think of more ways that people are controlled.

You can't force birth control on anyone and try finding doctors who will screen for STD's for free (because you didn't tell us how they would be paid).

nash
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:56 PM
So the environment getting worst and worst, going to war against a country for no reason, less jobs available, high taxes, health care getting worst; it's all due to immorality of people?
I don't have a huge opinion on the environment. The Bible teaches that God will destroy the Earth, not man. And, IMO, the war comes from Saddam's immoral actions. Dunno about jobs, taxes, healthcare. They are not really moral issues, I guess. What do you think?

nash
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:59 PM
I have no problems with what you said, but the problem I have with Christian conservatives is that they are not compasionate enough to solve these problems because they are too busy finger pointing.
Sadly, in many cases you are correct. That's a lesson we could all learn - to be more compassionate for those in need. Thanks, liz, for reminding me of that.

Veegeta
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:59 PM
You can't force birth control on anyone and try finding doctors who will screen for STD's for free (because you didn't tell us how they would be paid).

The hell you can letís just start a list of things that can't be forced theoretically.... again you would be breaking a LAW if you don't comply...
We would just use the money that we're spending on our WMD search....but seriously it wouldn't be easy as one two three but I do believe were there's a will there's a way.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:02 PM
The hell you can letís just start a list of things that can't be forced theoretically.... again you would be breaking a LAW if you don't comply...
We would just use the money that we're spending on our WMD search....but seriously it wouldn't be easy as one two three but I do believe were there's a will there's a way.


Who would you start with? Poor people? Those who live in cities? Those who have kids out of wedlock?

You still didn't say who is going to pay for the doctors to test for STD because I know I'm not.

harloo
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:03 PM
O.K. You're not gonna like what I have to say, but since you asked....

The solution to moral problems does not come from the government. It comes from repentence and faith in Jesus Christ.

The world is spiraling down the drain due to immorality. Children in foster care or orphanages have in most cases (but not all), been abused or neglected. That's immoral. Unwanted pregnancies, for the most part (please note that I didn't say ALL), are the result of immoral premarital sex. AIDS, for the most part (again not ALL), is the result of immoral sexual relationships and/or drug use.

To stop these social issues from spiraling completely out of control, we've got to reach the root of the problem, which is the morals of our society.

Now, in the mean time, we should try to help those in need. Orphans need parents. Scared young pregant ladies need support, counseling, and help with life skills. Our churches should be stepping up to the challenge and ministering to the needs of those who are hurting. But none of this will be effective in the long run as long as society continues to turn from God's established moral principles.

This is just my opinion. Feel free to blast me if you wish. But please don't blast other Christians or Republicans for my opinions.

Thanks,

-Nash-
Nash, I am not offended by christianity or religion because I do believe their is a God, however I am concerned about the separation of church and state in this country. We have always been a nation with a religious based history that is written in our constitution.

However, Bush and his appeal to the religious right is dishonest. It's the corruption and lying that troubles me and how the religious right has fallen for his untruths. That is not of God regardless of how anyone tries to spin it.

Knizzle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:07 PM
I don't have a huge opinion on the environment. The Bible teaches that God will destroy the Earth, not man. And, IMO, the war comes from Saddam's immoral actions. Dunno about jobs, taxes, healthcare. They are not really moral issues, I guess. What do you think?
The war also comes from Bush's immoral actions.

Knizzle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:08 PM
Nash, I am not offended by christianity or religion because I do believe their is a God, however I am concerned about the separation of church and state in this country. We have always been a nation with a religious based history that is written in our constitution.

However, Bush and his appeal to the religious right is dishonest. It's the corruption and lying that troubles me and how the religious right has fallen for his untruths. That is not of God regardless of how anyone tries to spin it.

:worship::worship::worship:

Veegeta
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:17 PM
Who would you start with? Poor people? Those who live in cities? Those who have kids out of wedlock?

You still didn't say who is going to pay for the doctors to test for STD because I know I'm not.

LOL

These are just ideals if they're retarded or ingenious. These ideals will indeed throw people out of there comfort zones but given MUCH thought will they work?...

I'm pretty sure congress can appropriate some funds from somewhere :shrug: it really wouldn't be that hard if the majority agrees.....

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:20 PM
LOL

These are just ideals if they're retarded or ingenious. These ideals will indeed throw people out of there comfort zones but given MUCH thought will they work?...

I'm pretty sure congress can appropriate some funds from somewhere :shrug: it really wouldn't be that hard if the majority agrees.....

The idea is retarded and they won't work.

So the government will have to pay for this program, which means I end up paying! No thank you; I pay enough taxes for shit I don't approve of.

GBFH
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:35 PM
It makes a difference now because Bush supporters say morals are our biggest problem, so I am looking for them to fix the problem since they seem to know so much.
the thread has progressed from this point...but i have a problem with being labeled a christian conservative just because i support bush. you backpedaled in your next post, but you didn't take fingon very seriously. just because i support bush, does not mean i agree with 100% of his policies. does not mean i am a radical republican. and it certainly does not mean i think morals are our biggest concerns.

Veegeta
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:35 PM
The idea is retarded and they won't work.

That's just your opinion....nothing definite about that statement.

Side note: I'm at work at an American Emb. and some random guy just called me speaking in another language and than he said congratulation, congratulation on all you have. He was talking about the outcome of the elections, but I don't know if he was being sarcastic or not? I thought it funny you guys couldn't imagine some of the calls we get.

Fingon
Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:31 PM
People who voted for Bush cleary stated that they disagree with Kerry on mostly everything.

The reason why I started this thred was because morals were the main reason most people who voted for Bush voted for him. So if they are truly concerned about morals, they'd better start coming up with solutions to the moral problems instead of pointing fingers at sinners.
ok, let's make rough numbers.

120,000,000 voters, 52 % votes for Bush,

That's roughly 63,000,000. So you extrapolate what a few people have said in the media or in WTAworld to 63,000,000, more than the entire population of the UK.

or maybe you talked to each of them and you really know what they think and why they voted Bush.

That's truly amazing.

do you really believe this? see what I was talking about when I mentioned being extremists?

I hope you realize why the Kerry's camp didn't get their message along. I hope you realize that not everyone that voted Bush is a bigot, fanatic religious, anti-gay etc.

and not everyone that voted Kerry is a liberal, intellectual, open-minded person.

that's basically the problem, it's yes-no, of course the election could not be other way, you can't vote for policies, you vote for candidates (although there are mechanism to participate more but that's another matter), basically you face the option, take all or leave all, there are no middle grounds.

But there are, even if you voted Bush because you like his anti-terrorism policy but you favour gay marriage, you can work with those who share your views on that to make it happen, instead of choosing to labelled everyone as the devils and angels.

Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds when you guys criticize Bush for being so extremist and you are extremist in your views yourself?

Unless you are a robot, I doubt that every candidate will statisfy you 100%, so what do you do?, obviously if you give your vote that someone that opposes gay marriage you are helping that opposition, but that doesn't mean you agree with that, that means you sacrifice some things to get other things.

I can't blame you because that's the way the politicians want you to think, some times they have oppsing points of view just because they are facing each other, if candidate A is for abortion candidate B will be against, just to be different.

Fingon
Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:44 PM
Furthermore, I can explain it better with my own thinking.

Of course this is merely academic because I am not American but.

Funny part is that in general, I agree more with Kerry than with Bush.

I don't have a position on gay marriage, but I don't oppose it.

I am for stem cell research.

I am against mixing religion with government.

I think the war in Iraq was a mistake (even though I thought different when it started, see, I can admit I am wrong).

It all shows I should have voted for Kerry,

the problem is terrorism, having lived in a country struck by terrorism I have a special aversion of it, and that consideration is above all the others.

Problem is, I didn't see Kerry taking a clear position on that, he said he opposed the war in Iraq but at the same time when asked if knowing what he knows that he would have supported the war he said yes, so I don't really know where he stands on and in this matter that's big enough to change my vote.

so I would have voted for Bush but, I am still for stem cell research, I still think the war on Iraq was a mistake, I still think religion should be kept away from the government, I would just have made my choice based on what is important for me, which isn't necessarily the same it's important for you and doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong or viceversa, that doesn't automatically make me a supporter of everything.

Bacardi
Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:55 PM
You gotta love those Bible Thumping Christians that Support W. It's enough to make a sane person PUKE.