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ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:14 PM
it reminds me of what the English did to India before they left.. Split it into three geographical, two ideologically opposite parts.

Pakistan, India, Bangladesh

West Coast, Middle America, East Coast

Split done by religious principles back then.
Split done by ideological principles here.

4 years ago at least we had a NM in the middle of huge red territory and NH as a Rep. encleve in the middle of Democratic territory.. Now America is ultimately divided into three contiguous pieces..

I am thinking.. Would you like the country to be split into 2 or 3? It is obvious that the interests and mentality of more educated and liberal coastal population is very different from those of population of Mid. America..

wayitis
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:28 PM
the division is more clearly defined between larger urban, more cosmopolitan areas being mostly Democrat as opposed to the heavily Republican smaller towns... note the examples of St. Louis, Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West palm Beach, Orlando and Atlanta, whose metropolitan areas went for Kerry even though Missouri, Florida and Georgia gave their votes to Bush...

AjdeNate!
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:32 PM
the division is more clearly defined between larger urban, more cosmopolitan areas being mostly Democrat as opposed to the heavily Republican smaller towns... note the examples of St. Louis, Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West palm Beach, Orlando and Atlanta, whose metropolitan areas went for Kerry even though Missouri, Florida and Georgia gave their votes to Bush...
Same thing for Illinois. It's incredibly GOP, save for Chicago-land. But that was more than enough to give IL to Kerry.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:48 PM
Yeah the only states that gave more land area to Kerry were the New England ones (except New Hampshire.)

Also, being "more educated" has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with the minorities. Obviously they are going to vote for Democrats, because the Democrats give minorities free money. There are more cities, and, therefore, more minorities, in the Kerry states than the Bush states.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:48 PM
and some of the best schools in the nation are in mid-western states, I'll have you know, all of which will be carried by Bush.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:50 PM
In fact, the smartest people in the nation IMHO are CEOs and self-made business people of that sort, and they vote overwhelmingly for Republicans, so I just don't understand your logic that the more "educated" you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Democrat.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:51 PM
oh one more thing, our country is strong and united no matter what. When push comes to shove, we all accept our government, stay strong, and persevere.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:54 PM
oh one more thing, our country is strong and united no matter what. When push comes to shove, we all accept our government, stay strong, and persevere.

Until the Republican starts opening their mouths bashing the following people:

Libearls
Hollywood celebrities
Northeasterners
West Coasters
Women on welfare
Unwed mothers
blacks

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:00 PM
or until the liberals start bashing

Christians
Southerners
Mid-Westerners
Nader-supporters
Rich people
everyone who doesn't agree with them (liberals are, as proven on this board, far more closed minded than conservatives)

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:01 PM
or until the liberals start bashing

Christians
Southerners
Mid-Westerners
Nader-supporters
Rich people
everyone who doesn't agree with them (liberals are, as proven on this board, far more closed minded than conservatives)
Well, with all this bashing, how can the country be united?

I'd love to see how united we will be when he reinstitutes the draft.:rolleyes:

decemberlove
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:26 PM
Yeah the only states that gave more land area to Kerry were the New England ones (except New Hampshire.)

Also, being "more educated" has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with the minorities. Obviously they are going to vote for Democrats, because the Democrats give minorities free money. There are more cities, and, therefore, more minorities, in the Kerry states than the Bush states.
actually, the "minorities" [hispanics] are what won bush florida.

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:27 PM
In fact, the smartest people in the nation IMHO are CEOs and self-made business people of that sort, and they vote overwhelmingly for Republicans, so I just don't understand your logic that the more "educated" you are, the more likely you are to vote for a Democrat.

Simple.. The smartest people like you mentioned often have Republican connections.. They do not vote for country's interests. They vote for interests of their businesses.. It's that simple.. Like, if they'd ask you, vote Democrats, and everyone in the country will live better 10% in 4 years.. Or vote Republican, and everyone will live on 5% better , but you personally will earn 50% more. What do you choose?

or, for instance, serious majority of those companies get a lot of their profit from out-sourcing.. Kerry's win will hurt their businesses in very direct way.. And Bush would never do anything to hurt a corporate America..

But really the smartest and the most intellectual people ( as opposite to the shewdest people ) like scientists, writers, engineers, they vote predominantly Dem.

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:28 PM
actually, the "minorities" [hispanics] are what won bush florida.

And that is just as dumb as it gets.. Someone go educate those people..

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:30 PM
But another thing that I think costed Kerry these elections were gays. He lost several percent of the vote because of them.. If there would be one biggest thing I'd blame this Kerry's loss on , I'd say - gays..

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:42 PM
But another thing that I think costed Kerry these elections were gays. He lost several percent of the vote because of them.. If there would be one biggest thing I'd blame this Kerry's loss on , I'd say - gays..I tend to agree with you. It didn't help Kerry that 11 states had anti-gay initiatives on their ballots (mostly in the South and Midwest) because that is what brought out the (white) Christian conservatives, who apprently run the US now. And the rest of us who are just plain Christian don't count in their world.:rolleyes:

Martian KC
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:50 PM
But really the smartest and the most intellectual people ( as opposite to the shewdest people ) like scientists, writers, engineers, they vote predominantly Dem.

Where did you get this assumption?:haha:

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:51 PM
I tend to agree with you. It didn't help Kerry that 11 states had anti-gay initiatives on their ballots (mostly in the South and Midwest) because that is what brought out the (white) Christian conservatives, who apprently run the US now. And the rest of us who are just plain Christian don't count in their world.:rolleyes:

It's not just that.. The whole blah about gay marriage intensified this year was either a well-thought Republican provocation or just short-sightedness of gay activists.. Because two obvious association chains -

Ban of gay marraige = Conservative = Bush

Allow gay marriage = Liberal = Kerry

were clearly built in many minds, even if Kerry was against that too, but who cared. Clearly, having a prospect of liberal-branded senator becoming a president combined with all fuss about gay marriage , it clearly got into many minds with vivid images of gay men kissing everywhere and marrying each other, if Kerry is elected.

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:52 PM
Where did you get this assumption?:haha:

Look at professional immigration vote. Look at Jewish vote.

decemberlove
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:53 PM
education has little to do with whether a person is a democrat or a republican. the majority of the people in this country are ignorant of the issues. they vote by which candidate is more personable or better looking.

and while everyone else is making ridiculous generalizations, i am going to make my own and say that the more "educated" person realizes that the democrats & republicans are not THAT different from one another. they are still pretty much owned by corporations, which is a major problem in this country.

all of this liberal vs. conservative fighting over which group is the more open-minded needs to stop. not all liberals are democrats and not all conservatives are republicans. so please educate yourself on the subject before making yourself look like an idiot by making blanket statements. we have strayed too far from the actual meaning of conservative and liberal by allowing ourselves to be brainwashed by the media.

what this country REALLY needs is another strong party. i know so many people [many small business owners] who are fiscal conservatives and social liberals. they vote republican cos money is most important to them, or cos they feel that voting independent means wasting your vote. most people care more about their own pockets than they do about social issues and others standard of living.

we need someone who isn't a marionette of the big corporations running our country.

wayitis
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:55 PM
actually, the "minorities" [hispanics] are what won bush florida.

not quite, Cuban-Americans, especially the older generation that immigrated before Mariel, tend to align themselves politically with the Republican party and the more conservative and anti-Castro politicians... the other hispanic groups, whose sheer numbers are expected to surpass the exile by 2010, are predominantly Democrat...

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:56 PM
education has little to do with whether a person is a democrat or a republican. the majority of the people in this country are ignorant of the issues. they vote by which candidate is more personable or better looking.

and while everyone else is making ridiculous generalizations, i am going to make my own and say that the more "educated" person realizes that the democrats & republicans are not THAT different from one another. they are still pretty much owned by corporations, which is a major problem in this country.

all of this liberal vs. conservative fighting over which group is the more open-minded needs to stop. not all liberals are democrats and not all conservatives are republicans. so please educate yourself on the subject before making yourself look like an idiot by making blanket statements. we have strayed too far from the actual meaning of conservative and liberal by allowing ourselves to be brainwashed by the media.

what this country REALLY needs is another strong party. i know so many people [many small business owners] who are fiscal conservatives and social liberals. they vote republican cos money is most important to them, or cos they feel that voting independent means wasting your vote. most people care more about their own pockets than they do about social issues and others standard of living.

we need someone who isn't a marionette of the big corporations running our country.
We need another Clinton. And not Hillary.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:57 PM
not quite, Cuban-Americans, especially the older generation that immigrated before Mariel, tend to align themselves politically with the Republican party and the more conservative and anti-Castro politicians... the other hispanic groups, whose sheer numbers are expected to surpass the exile by 2010, are predominantly Democrat...

In addition, the younger Cuban-Americans (those born here in the US) are leaning Democrat

Iroda_Fan
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:58 PM
Those states are where the rednecks live (most) and offcourse there going to be behind a person that loves war, guns, and weapons, they are all for it.

alfajeffster
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:58 PM
it reminds me of what the English did to India before they left.. Split it into three geographical, two ideologically opposite parts.

Pakistan, India, Bangladesh

West Coast, Middle America, East Coast

Split done by religious principles back then.
Split done by ideological principles here.

4 years ago at least we had a NM in the middle of huge red territory and NH as a Rep. encleve in the middle of Democratic territory.. Now America is ultimately divided into three contiguous pieces..

I am thinking.. Would you like the country to be split into 2 or 3? It is obvious that the interests and mentality of more educated and liberal coastal population is very different from those of population of Mid. America..
This is actually a very interesting observation- thank you for presenting it for discussion. Let's look into your theory a little more, from a historical perspective. The British Empire definitely divided the Indian sub-continent along religious lines- hence Bangladesh (East Pakistan) and Pakistan, and there has been war ever since. How do you think this relates to the British influence on the outcome of the American Civil War, and how does the American Civil War factor into how the past 2 (or more) elections have been divided?

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:00 PM
Those states are where the rednecks live (most) and offcourse there going to be behind a person that loves war, guns, and weapons, they are all for it.
They are also the ones who are so concerned about what goes on in other people's bedrooms:rolleyes: . Maybe because nothing is going on in their scary love lives.:lol:

victory1
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:02 PM
education has little to do with whether a person is a democrat or a republican. the majority of the people in this country are ignorant of the issues. they vote by which candidate is more personable or better looking.

and while everyone else is making ridiculous generalizations, i am going to make my own and say that the more "educated" person realizes that the democrats & republicans are not THAT different from one another. they are still pretty much owned by corporations, which is a major problem in this country.

all of this liberal vs. conservative fighting over which group is the more open-minded needs to stop. not all liberals are democrats and not all conservatives are republicans. so please educate yourself on the subject before making yourself look like an idiot by making blanket statements. we have strayed too far from the actual meaning of conservative and liberal by allowing ourselves to be brainwashed by the media.

what this country REALLY needs is another strong party. i know so many people [many small business owners] who are fiscal conservatives and social liberals. they vote republican cos money is most important to them, or cos they feel that voting independent means wasting your vote. most people care more about their own pockets than they do about social issues and others standard of living.

we need someone who isn't a marionette of the big corporations running our country.
You're right about somethings and wrong on others. Most people vote by party line not for the person per se. Example, 10 thousand people in my church in atlanta alone, we always vote for the Republican party, no matter who's running (we vote on platform, and the Republican platform fits us better). Of course this year, I secretly voted for John kerry (I could not bring myself to vote for Bush again).

Martian KC
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:02 PM
Look at professional immigration vote. Look at Jewish vote.

Why am I not surprised by your ignorance?

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:05 PM
education has little to do with whether a person is a democrat or a republican. the majority of the people in this country are ignorant of the issues. they vote by which candidate is more personable or better looking.

Really? W better looking? More personable? They vote for their favourite team in a football match between Reps and Dems. That's it.


and while everyone else is making ridiculous generalizations, i am going to make my own and say that the more "educated" person realizes that the democrats & republicans are not THAT different from one another. they are still pretty much owned by corporations, which is a major problem in this country.

But that is a big simplification either. There is always lesser from two evils. Besides, however owned by corporations they are, even the minor differences - such as environmental approaches, or Middle East policies - could be crucial.


what this country REALLY needs is another strong party.


Keep living in Dreamland, Holly.. In meantime, oil will hit $100 a barrel. Maybe then you'll get realistic.. And they will start drilling in NJ.. :lol:



i know so many people [many small business owners] who are fiscal conservatives and social liberals.


Absolutely. So?



they vote republican cos money is most important to them, or cos they feel that voting independent means wasting your vote. most people care more about their own pockets than they do about social issues and others standard of living.


True. But it is not their votes that we are talking about.. No money is enough to buy votes in that way.. What we are talking about is people voting by habit with no real agenda attached to that - like your Floridian Cubans who gave us 8 years of W.



we need someone who isn't a marionette of the big corporations running our country.

The Matrix owns you, Holly. Keep dreaming..

Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:13 PM
actually, the "minorities" [hispanics] are what won bush florida.
Yes, but hispanics overall voted for Kerry.

decemberlove
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:16 PM
not quite, Cuban-Americans, especially the older generation that immigrated before Mariel, tend to align themselves politically with the Republican party and the more conservative and anti-Castro politicians... the other hispanic groups, whose sheer numbers are expected to surpass the exile by 2010, are predominantly Democrat...

not quite what? cuban-americans are the largest segment of the hispanic population in florida. and yes, other latino groups are expected to pass the cuban-american numbers in florida sometime in the future. but we are talking about THIS election, 2004, right? right.

CNN had some interesting stats last night about florida. the senior citizens are actually becoming more democatic while the hispanics are leaning more towards the republican side.

Osama_Bin_Laden
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:22 PM
جزاكم الله خيرا وبارك الله فيكم

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:28 PM
not quite what? cuban-americans are the largest segment of the hispanic population in florida. and yes, other latino groups are expected to pass the cuban-american numbers in florida sometime in the future. but we are talking about THIS election, 2004, right? right.

CNN had some interesting stats last night about florida. the senior citizens are actually becoming more democatic while the hispanics are leaning more towards the republican side.

Because they know the Republicans won't do a damn thing about illegal immigration.

decemberlove
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:38 PM
Really? W better looking? More personable? They vote for their favourite team in a football match between Reps and Dems. That's it.

he is definitely more personable than kerry. did you see the hbo special journeys with george in 2002? he is a down-home type of guy. people like that. kerry wasn't allowed to show his personality at all... his wranglers were obviously confused as to what approach to take. and edwards was cardboard, too. atleast dean had some life to him.

But that is a big simplification either. There is always lesser from two evils. Besides, however owned by corporations they are, even the minor differences - such as environmental approaches, or Middle East policies - could be crucial.

of course it is. i SAID it was. it was just an offering of a different opinion to get the conversation rolling...

Keep living in Dreamland, Holly.. In meantime, oil will hit $100 a barrel. Maybe then you'll get realistic.. And they will start drilling in NJ.. :lol:

i consider myself an independent, and had i gotten my card in the mail like i was supposed to and been alllowed to vote, i would've voted for kerry. i don't live in dreamland. i realize that as of now we only have two choices to choose from.

Absolutely. So?

so, people aren't satisfied. apathy is taking over this country, and we need to do something about it.


True. But it is not their votes that we are talking about.. No money is enough to buy votes in that way.. What we are talking about is people voting by habit with no real agenda attached to that - like your Floridian Cubans who gave us 8 years of W.

yeah but votes are really all that matter. and like i said, people are more likely to vote to protect their pocket than to keep those less fortunate comfy.

and trust, the cuban-americans in florida have an agenda. they want politicians to be on tough as castro as possible. honestly, i thought after bush imposed those very strict sanctions upon cuba recently [for example, only being about to travel to cuba to see family once every three years], that cuban-americans would feel the sanctions were too outrageous and pull away from bush. i was wrong, unfortunately.


The Matrix owns you, Holly. Keep dreaming..

it's a dream, yes. i doubt i'll ever see it in this present lifetime, but that doesn't mean the matrix owns me. it just means i don't like to swallow all the shit the media feeds me.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:39 PM
re: education, 55% of college graduates voted for Bush in this election.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:40 PM
In addition, the younger Cuban-Americans (those born here in the US) are leaning Democratnot true at all. Bush won 82% of the Cuban vote in Florida, and a majority (can't remember exactly) of the younger Cuban vote. If this trend is over, the Democrats really have few places to turn.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:40 PM
I don't like mboyle any more than the rest of you, but honestly, if you're going to continue to give him material by making generalizations... :retard:

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:42 PM
not true at all. Bush won 82% of the Cuban vote in Florida, and a majority (can't remember exactly) of the younger Cuban vote. Face it: it is over for Democrats. OVER.

Maybe in the South, but not in the rest of the US.

I'd get most of the Cuban vote too if I said "Open Borders!"

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:44 PM
not quite, Cuban-Americans, especially the older generation that immigrated before Mariel, tend to align themselves politically with the Republican party and the more conservative and anti-Castro politicians... the other hispanic groups, whose sheer numbers are expected to surpass the exile by 2010, are predominantly Democrat...
no, they are registering Republican in droves! That is why Bush won New Mexico, Colorado, and several other swing states with large Latino populations. He did like 15 or 20 points better on the Latino vote this year!

Crazy Canuck
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:44 PM
not true at all. Bush won 82% of the Cuban vote in Florida, and a majority (can't remember exactly) of the younger Cuban vote. Face it: it is over for Democrats. OVER.
Is that what mommy and daddy told you? Did they give you cracker too? :D

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:45 PM
Maybe in the South, but not in the rest of the US.

I'd get most of the Cuban vote too if I said "Open Borders!"
Seeing as like 75% of Cuban-Americans live in Florida:rolleyes: ...

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:46 PM
Seeing as like 75% of Cuban-Americans live in Florida:rolleyes: ...

Like I said, "Open Borders!"

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:47 PM
Is that what mommy and daddy told you? Did they give you cracker too? :D
No, CNN isn't my mother or my father. I am 16. Get over yourself. Actually, I am more conservative than my father, and my mother is an independent. In the past four elections, she has voted for two Republicans and two Democrats, so don't deceive yourself with this idea that my opinions are anyone's but my own.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:47 PM
well obviously I'd win too if I said, "Rich people's money for sitting on your butt." See, the argument works both ways.

vogus
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:52 PM
it reminds me of what the English did to India before they left.. Split it into three geographical, two ideologically opposite parts.

Pakistan, India, Bangladesh

West Coast, Middle America, East Coast

Split done by religious principles back then.
Split done by ideological principles here.

4 years ago at least we had a NM in the middle of huge red territory and NH as a Rep. encleve in the middle of Democratic territory.. Now America is ultimately divided into three contiguous pieces..

I am thinking.. Would you like the country to be split into 2 or 3? It is obvious that the interests and mentality of more educated and liberal coastal population is very different from those of population of Mid. America..

interesting point, but the trend will have to persist for several more elections and cultural polarization will have to increase.

In a hundred years i can envision a situation where the Northeast US and West coast form one nation, with liberal ideals similar to Western Europe, and a conservative, Christian-theocratic based "American Heartland" nation in the middle.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:52 PM
No, CNN isn't my mother or my father. I am 16. Get over yourself. Actually, I am more conservative than my father, and my mother is an independent. In the past four elections, she has voted for two Republicans and two Democrats, so don't deceive yourself with this idea that my opinions are anyone's but my own.

You're a parrot, and an ignorant one at that. Little shits like you who don't know a thing about the world outside their little circle are very scary shits indeed. How a bratty little white boy thinks he's in any position to comment on such issues as welfar, minorities, and blah is absolutely beyond me. Your world view has been severely limited, and that is what makes you ignorant. You are unable to consider anything that does not fit into the schema which has been fed spoon fed to you for the past 16 years. Grow up, live a little, and only then will you be worth debating with politically. As it stands now you are nothing more than a fucking redneck with wealthy parents.

I have no issue with conservatives (you don't see me attack any others on the board, do you?), but I do have issues with individuals like yourself.

Bye :wavey:

decemberlove
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:53 PM
Maybe in the South, but not in the rest of the US.

I'd get most of the Cuban vote too if I said "Open Borders!"

that doesn't make any sense.

why do cubans care about whether or not other latino groups get into the US? the cubans have the wet foot-dry foot policy... they have a free pass as long as they can step on land.

anyway, bush is rather tough on immigration.

Joana
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:54 PM
It's really disturbing that someone born in 1988 is so vociferous about politics.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:56 PM
that doesn't make any sense.

why do cubans care about whether or not other latino groups get into the US? the cubans have the wet foot-dry foot policy... they have a free pass as long as they can step on land.

anyway, bush is rather tough on immigration.


Like I said, Open Borders for them because they can come whenever they want; they should be under the same policy as any other non-American who wants to live in the US.

Bush isn't tough enough on immigration; he is just as weak as Clinton, his father, Reagan and Carter were.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:57 PM
It's really disturbing that someone born in 1988 is so vociferous about politics.
It's refreshing when young people make a point of being informed on political issues, seeing as they will be voting on them in a few years. It's not quite so refreshing when these children who - for the most part- have very limited life experience, think that they have all the answers. That's what makes mboyle a creepy little shit. Not that he's an aspiring conservative, but that's he's so closed minded and ignorant so young.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:05 PM
You're a parrot, and an ignorant one at that. Little shits like you who don't know a thing about the world outside their little circle are very scary shits indeed. How a bratty little white boy thinks he's in any position to comment on such issues as welfar, minorities, and blah is absolutely beyond me. Your world view has been severely limited, and that is what makes you ignorant. You are unable to consider anything that does not fit into the schema which has been fed spoon fed to you for the past 16 years. Grow up, live a little, and only then will you be worth debating with politically. As it stands now you are nothing more than a ------- redneck with wealthy parents.

I have no issue with conservatives (you don't see me attack any others on the board, do you?), but I do have issues with individuals like yourself.

Bye :wavey:
I am NOT a parrot! You don't know me! Who is judging outside of her little bubble now? You're what, all of 21, 22? Oooo wow, so old! The same argument of "lack of world experience" could be used against you. Do you pay taxes? I bet not like most adults pay taxes. See, the problem with message boards is that people assume things all the time. I mean, how DARE you assume that I am a parrot or whatever. As for my being a redneck, wow. I live in Massachusetts. My view has been limited? How about my best friend's from Arkansas, has been raped, has lived in housing projects, and has had abusive step-fathers? How about my other really good friend is from Slovakia, and has had half her body bruised from her father's whacking a baseball bat at her repeatedly? How about my life? How about my parent's aren't super-rich? How about you shut your mouth and take the time to walk in my shoes a mile or two before deciding you know all about me?

Joana
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:06 PM
It's refreshing when young people make a point of being informed on political issues, seeing as they will be voting on them in a few years. It's not quite so refreshing when these children who - for the most part- have very limited life experience, think that they have all the answers. That's what makes mboyle a creepy little shit. Not that he's an aspiring conservative, but that's he's so closed minded and ignorant so young.
When I was 16 all I had to say about politics was: "Milosevic, go away!" And I thought I was really well informed. :lol:
I can't understand this. He is scary indeed.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:08 PM
It's refreshing when young people make a point of being informed on political issues, seeing as they will be voting on them in a few years. It's not quite so refreshing when these children who - for the most part- have very limited life experience, think that they have all the answers. That's what makes mboyle a creepy little shit. Not that he's an aspiring conservative, but that's he's so closed minded and ignorant so young.
I'm closed minded? How would you know? I am on the receiving end of, "I never want to speak to you again" and "Ew I hate Republicans" from closed-minded liberals. I would NEVER say that liberals or democrats are stupid or ignorant or anything. I think liberals have many excellent points. I actually agree with most liberal policy. My difference is that I think it should be implemented privately, Crazy. But, as YOU have never taken the time to get to know me, being the omniscient super-goddess that you obviously consider yourself to be, you wouldn't know that.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:10 PM
It's really disturbing that someone born in 1988 is so vociferous about politics.
why? Actually, about 75% of people my age at my school went canvassing in Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, or New Jersey for one candidate or another at some point since September. About 10-25% went canvassing EVERY WEEKEND. Are you scared by them? Don't say you don't know them, because you know just as much about them as you do about me.

Joana
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:10 PM
I get it, you think you are the king of the world just because you are 16. Been there, done that. It turned out it's not like that, but you can keep dreaming.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:12 PM
You Don't Know Who I Am! How The Hell Can You Make A Judgement Like That?

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:14 PM
oh btw, for the both of you Matthew Boyle experts, here's a little quiz:

1. What are my beliefs about abortion?

2. What are my beliefs about gay marriage?

3. What are my beliefs about the death penalty?

4. What is my favorite social pastime?

Until you can answer those four questions correctly, you have no right to make such sweeping assumptions.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:25 PM
I am NOT a parrot! You don't know me! Who is judging outside of her little bubble now?

My "little bubble" is hardly as narrow as your own, which was kind of the whole point. I have the uncanny ability to consider both sides to a problem (whether it be political or whatever else) and realize that maybe, just maybe the people who disagree with my aren't *insert negative attribute here*. Don't worry, you aren't the only one who lacks this ability. People on both sides of the political spectrum do. But .. it is one of the many things that makes us different.

But yes, I am judging you. No, that probably isn't fair. MEH.

You're what, all of 21, 22? Oooo wow, so old! The same argument of "lack of world experience" could be used against you.

Well, no, not really. There is more to "life experience" than how old you are. Although you could assume, incorrectly, that I am your typical 22 year old, in which case you would have a point. However, I'm not. And I don't need to tell you my life story in order to justify that. Afterall, this is just the internet ;)


Do you pay taxes? I bet not like most adults pay taxes.

Of course not, dipshit. I'm a fulltime student who isn't making substantial enough income to be taxed for it. I'm on student loans and will be for the next 6 years or so, at which point I will stop being a fulltime student and start paying them back. Most adults won't reach my final level of education, so comparing me to the dude who works at the corner store (or what have you) is... pointless :wavey:

If I wasn't a fulltime student (and was thus working a dead end job with a highschool education like most people do), then uh yes, I would be paying taxes. That's sort of, you know, the LAW here. I can't imagine why you would assume otherwise?

See, the problem with message boards is that people assume things all the time.

Duh. People can only know about you what you tell them. Everything else is based on impressions. The majority of my opinion of you is based on an impression that you give off. If you are really nothing like what I said, and you just troll this board as the character that I outlined, then yay! Mission accomplished, job well done :D

I mean, how DARE you assume that I am a parrot or whatever.

*sniff*

As for my being a redneck, wow. I live in Massachusetts.

You seem to have misunderstood what I meant by "redneck". I wasn't refering to geographic location ;)

My view has been limited? How about my best friend's from Arkansas, has been raped, has lived in housing projects, and has had abusive step-fathers? How about my other really good friend is from Slovakia, and has had half her body bruised from her father's whacking a baseball bat at her repeatedly?

Your friend, your friend.. things that happened to people you know... not to you. I'm not sure how you think knowing people who have been abused broadens your horizons. Not to suggest that you yourself being abused would either! It's not what you see, hear, feel, etc. It's what you make of it. From the looks of things, you haven't made a lot of your limited experiences or you wouldn't be so freaking closed minded.

How about my life? How about my parent's aren't super-rich? How about you shut your mouth and take the time to walk in my shoes a mile or two before deciding you know all about me?

We probably don't mean the same thing by "rich". I never said "super-rich", btw. Don't you go to private school?

I assure you that if I walked a mile or two in your shoes, I would not come out as a know-it-all, closed-minded 16 year old. You're young. You don't have all the answers. Stop acting like you do, and maybe people will have some respect for your opinions.

No, I don't have all the answers either. At least I don't make a point of acting like I do!

Now... I must study. I'll respond to the rest later, I see you had some points I should address :wavey:

Joana
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:25 PM
I will be more interested in discussing those things when you are 19.

harloo
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:25 PM
It's not just that.. The whole blah about gay marriage intensified this year was either a well-thought Republican provocation or just short-sightedness of gay activists.. Because two obvious association chains -

Ban of gay marraige = Conservative = Bush

Allow gay marriage = Liberal = Kerry

were clearly built in many minds, even if Kerry was against that too, but who cared. Clearly, having a prospect of liberal-branded senator becoming a president combined with all fuss about gay marriage , it clearly got into many minds with vivid images of gay men kissing everywhere and marrying each other, if Kerry is elected.
Yes, it was a very well contrived strategy from the GOP.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:29 PM
My "little bubble" is hardly as narrow as your own, which was kind of the whole point. I have the uncanny ability to consider both sides to a problem (whether it be political or whatever else) and realize that maybe, just maybe the people who disagree with my aren't *insert negative attribute here*. Don't worry, you aren't the only one who lacks this ability. People on both sides of the political spectrum do. But .. it is one of the many things that makes us different.

But yes, I am judging you. No, that probably isn't fair. MEH.



Well, no, not really. There is more to "life experience" than how old you are. Although you could assume, incorrectly, that I am your typical 22 year old, in which case you would have a point. However, I'm not. And I don't need to tell you my life story in order to justify that. Afterall, this is just the internet ;)




Of course not, dipshit. I'm a fulltime student who isn't making substantial enough income to be taxed for it. I'm on student loans and will be for the next 6 years or so, at which point I will stop being a fulltime student and start paying them back. Most adults won't reach my final level of education, so comparing me to the dude who works at the corner store (or what have you) is... pointless :wavey:

If I wasn't a fulltime student (and was thus working a dead end job with a highschool education like most people do), then uh yes, I would be paying taxes. That's sort of, you know, the LAW here. I can't imagine why you would assume otherwise?



Duh. People can only know about you what you tell them. Everything else is based on impressions. The majority of my opinion of you is based on an impression that you give off. If you are really nothing like what I said, and you just troll this board as the character that I outlined, then yay! Mission accomplished, job well done :D



*sniff*



You seem to have misunderstood what I meant by "redneck". I wasn't refering to geographic location ;)



Your friend, your friend.. things that happened to people you know... not to you. I'm not sure how you think knowing people who have been abused broadens your horizons. Not to suggest that you yourself being abused would either! It's not what you see, hear, feel, etc. It's what you make of it. From the looks of things, you haven't made a lot of your limited experiences or you wouldn't be so freaking closed minded.



We probably don't mean the same thing by "rich". I never said "super-rich", btw. Don't you go to private school?

I assure you that if I walked a mile or two in your shoes, I would not come out as a know-it-all, closed-minded 16 year old. You're young. You don't have all the answers. Stop acting like you do, and maybe people will have some respect for your opinions.

No, I don't have all the answers either. At least I don't make a point of acting like I do!

Now... I must study. :wavey:
A. I told you, I agree with some things on the "other side." You say you comprehend the other side, but do you? When have I ever said that the other side is "insert negative here"?

B. things have happened to me that I don't need to get into with you. Once again, you are WRONG! And no, it isn't something trivial or something that happens to everyone.

C. No, I don't presume to know everything. I just have opinions. Oh my god. You have them too. Somehow, on this board, is is okay for liberal opinions to be expressed. Mine aren't liberal. I am then dubbed a "know it all." You have to love that:rolleyes:

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:30 PM
1. Against.
2. For it.
3. Against.
4. Maria Sharapova.
3/4 correct;) . My favorite pastime is shopping. I am a shopaholic. My favorite store is Aveda.

flyingmachine
Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:01 PM
it reminds me of what the English did to India before they left.. Split it into three geographical, two ideologically opposite parts.

Pakistan, India, Bangladesh

West Coast, Middle America, East Coast

Split done by religious principles back then.
Split done by ideological principles here.

4 years ago at least we had a NM in the middle of huge red territory and NH as a Rep. encleve in the middle of Democratic territory.. Now America is ultimately divided into three contiguous pieces..

I am thinking.. Would you like the country to be split into 2 or 3? It is obvious that the interests and mentality of more educated and liberal coastal population is very different from those of population of Mid. America..
It sounds like someone wants to start a civil war in the US again. That will be interesting. :devil:

njguido11
Nov 4th, 2004, 12:29 AM
3/4 correct;) . My favorite pastime is shopping. I am a shopaholic. My favorite store is Aveda.

I dont know why you even bother on here. TO be honest the name calling you have received because of your political views is ridiculus. THe fact that the whole "ur only 16" is followed by complete name calling and nasty remarks is pretty amusing considering its coming from the so called informed elderly voters. Its amusing to be personally that someone can actually say the republican voter is less educated when the urban city areas are the only reason Kerry was even close.

ptkten
Nov 4th, 2004, 12:54 AM
The education argument comes from the fact that people with post-graduate education vote for Kerry, and that the most educated states are the ones that voted for Kerry as well. Regardless, I don't like to use that argument because it's that type of attitude that loses the vote in rural America. They see the dems as elitists, and if you start to use education arguments with them, they'll become even more resentful.

korben
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:41 AM
And lot has changed......

http://americancivilwar.com/pictures/comp1850.jpg

Martian Jeza
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:57 AM
mboyle, I admire you : You suffer of brainwashing ! But keep believing in a liar and hypocrite as Bush : You're right but don't complain if the situation in the US get worser and worser. Many less-educated people voted for Bush also : Not a surprise.

Lizchris is right, USA needs another Clinton as soon as possible !

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:58 AM
Very interesting.

Seems that we are not as along in history as you'd think.

Bacardi
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:21 AM
If you don't learn from the past, history is doomed to repeat itself.

Sam L
Nov 4th, 2004, 10:30 AM
It is obvious that the interests and mentality of more educated and liberal coastal population is very different from those of population of Mid. America..
Damn ys, ENOUGH SAID! :lol:

I call for secession.

Hey what do you guys think of this?

http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/images/unknown.jpg

rwb196
Nov 4th, 2004, 11:01 AM
:lol: at the authentic voice-of-the-left in this thread clueless and tone-deaf as ever !

Just project the current electoral trends into a hypothetical future race between a moderate Republican and another arch liberal Democrat - we would be talking landslide, wipeout numbers like Reagan '84.

In some ways it's sad to see a once great party dragged into oblivion by the Moore-ish left wing freakozoids but I won't loose too much sleep worrying about it ;)

Crazy Canuck
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:37 AM
Blah blah blah.

Mboyle, if you're so sure of yourself, then why do you feel the need to defend yourself at such great lengths, yo? ;)

Here is my issue with you: no, it's not that you are a conservative. If this was the case, I would get on the case of conservatives all over the board. Aside from the occasional teasing of cheesestix (who I have also agreed with and good repped over the past week), this is simply not the case.

You have a history of making closed-minded, ignorant, degrading comments about minorities, the poor, and foreigners. *That* is the root of my problem with you.

Happy? ;)

Crazy Canuck
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:41 AM
...(liberals are, as proven on this board, far more closed minded than conservatives)

Don't bullshit us. You do too label and insult liberals. You've done so in this very thread, just like the liberal posters around here do to you. You've also done so in other threads, or have you already forgotten the "bleeding hearts liberals" line you threw out to anybody anywhere who was having problems getting registered to vote? You are no better than them (well, at least you don't post faulty IQ lists from urbanlegends :retard:, but aside from that)

Joana
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:45 AM
That's a touching story. Now, I don't care about the American politics one way or another, what I wanted to say is that what you believe in now, when you're 16, might not be the same thing as when you are 21. And I still think it's rather weird that somebody that young is so obsessed with politics. If my sister started acting like that I would be worried.

And BTW, sometimes you are very annoying. Try not to be.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:45 AM
... It has everything to do with the minorities. Obviously they are going to vote for Democrats, because the Democrats give minorities free money...

An example of an ignorant comment you've said about minorities. Again, pulled from this very thread :)

See, you know why this comment isn't fair, mboyle? I can't even believe that nobody has jumped on you for it yet :confused:

Minorities will vote for Dems because dems give them "free money". Um, okay. What about the ones who don't need "free money" but vote Dem anyways? Did you ever consider those people, or is it just easier to lump them all into the "poor useless minority" catagory? You know what we call people who do that, right?

Rtael
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:47 AM
re: education, 55% of college graduates voted for Bush in this election.

IN YOUR FACE!
I absolutely and completey abhor and detest you and I'm only being repetitive and saying the same things over and over again so you know and understand just how much I definitely and pointedly mean what I have to say and what comes out my mouth.

mboyle
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:50 AM
Don't bullshit us. You do too label and insult liberals. You've done so in this very thread, just like the liberal posters around here do to you. You've also done so in other threads, or have you already forgotten the "bleeding hearts liberals" line you threw out to anybody anywhere who was having problems getting registered to vote? You are no better than them (well, at least you don't post faulty IQ lists from urbanlegends :retard:, but aside from that)
Okay I was wrong and I probably came across as a jerk. That wasn't my intent. I just do believe that people don't give other people the benefit of the doubt, and that goes on both sides. It is like, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Sure some people claim they were denied voting access for no reason, but why do we automatically believe them over the people in charge? That is my issue. I think people on this board are very VERY quick to put shame and blame on republicans without looking at both sides. I think my father and certain radio talk show hosts are too quick to condemn democrats for conspiring to lie about the news to sway voters, and to skew the exit polls so that Republicans would give up and stop voting.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 7th, 2004, 03:56 AM
Okay I was wrong and I probably came across as a jerk. That wasn't my intent.

You're allowed to be wrong. I too, am sometimes wrong :)

I just do believe that people don't give other people the benefit of the doubt, and that goes on both sides. It is like, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Sure some people claim they were denied voting access for no reason, but why do we automatically believe them over the people in charge?

We don't have to automatically believe them, but they should be given the benefit of the doubt ;)

That is my issue. I think people on this board are very VERY quick to put shame and blame on republicans without looking at both sides. I think my father and certain radio talk show hosts are too quick to condemn democrats for conspiring to lie about the news to sway voters, and to skew the exit polls so that Republicans would give up and stop voting.

This board is very left wing. You could easily find a very right winged board that talks about left wingers with just as much disdain as left wingers are given here. I know, because I've read some ;) It goes both ways, and no, it's not very pretty. People like that aren't really woth talking politics with... but they can be fun ;)

mboyle
Nov 7th, 2004, 04:06 AM
what I wanted to say is that what you believe in now, when you're 16, might not be the same thing as when you are 21.
and what you believe at 21 is often not what you believe at 40. I am aware of this.

And I still think it's rather weird that somebody that young is so obsessed with politics.I am a very weird person. I watched CNN and the History Channel when I was in elementary school, and I detested Disney and Nickolodian (is that spelled right?) I also hated outdoor recess, because my teachers didn't let me bring the encyclopedias outside.

And BTW, sometimes you are very annoying. Try not to be.
As I said, it is hard to notice one's faults. But I will try.

mboyle
Nov 7th, 2004, 04:37 AM
As I told rebecca re: the free money, I get mad at the Democrats because they really set up cycles of poverty by giving money to people without making them learn skills and learn how to be a part of America. I have seen also that the gov't does a horrendous and unacceptable job at getting the funds into productive, legit programs. For example, in MA, the gov't spent like 10 million dollars last year TO ADVERTISE FOOD STAMPS!:o Now, imagine how much better my state would have been if they had instead put that money towards education or health care!

Shane54
Nov 7th, 2004, 04:41 AM
or until the liberals start bashing

Christians
Southerners
Mid-Westerners
Nader-supporters
Rich people
everyone who doesn't agree with them (liberals are, as proven on this board, far more closed minded than conservatives)
Thank you Mboyle. Both sides are guilty.

Shane54
Nov 7th, 2004, 04:46 AM
mboyle, I admire you : You suffer of brainwashing ! But keep believing in a liar and hypocrite as Bush : You're right but don't complain if the situation in the US get worser and worser. Many less-educated people voted for Bush also : Not a surprise.

Lizchris is right, USA needs another Clinton as soon as possible !
Many less educated people voted for Bush? Let's take the 89% of a "certain segment of the population" that voted for Kerry and compare their test scores and degree to those who voted for Bush. Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzllllleeeeeeeeeeeee

Crazy Canuck
Nov 7th, 2004, 04:54 AM
Many less educated people voted for Bush? Let's take the 89% of a "certain segment of the population" that voted for Kerry and compare their test scores and degree to those who voted for Bush. Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzllllleeeeeeeeeeeee
Standardized tests tend to be biased, no matter how hard the test creaters try to work around that. SATs, Wechlsler's, and blah are no different. Minorities tend to score lower on these on average, but that's not because they are necessarily less intelligent. Same goes for poor people. Anybody who has spent 5 seconds of their life studying these things would be able to supply some reasons for the score differentials ;) Thus, trying to make a point out of the fact a "certain segment of the population" score lower on certain tests is... uh, pointless. About as pointless as posting faulty IQ data.

Shane54
Nov 7th, 2004, 05:01 AM
Well the same goes for posters on here who are so pissed at the election results that they will insult the intelligence of Bush supporters. But that is totally acceptable Canuck?

Crazy Canuck
Nov 7th, 2004, 05:11 AM
Well the same goes for posters on here who are so pissed at the election results that they will insult the intelligence of Bush supporters. But that is totally acceptable Canuck?
Seeing as I *just* called the IQ data faulty and have made comments in this very thread about that, no :retard: If you want to point out that I'm lacking consistency, at least read the fucking thread first :retard:

Sam L
Nov 7th, 2004, 06:40 AM
Simple.. The smartest people like you mentioned often have Republican connections.. They do not vote for country's interests. They vote for interests of their businesses.. It's that simple.. Like, if they'd ask you, vote Democrats, and everyone in the country will live better 10% in 4 years.. Or vote Republican, and everyone will live on 5% better , but you personally will earn 50% more. What do you choose?

or, for instance, serious majority of those companies get a lot of their profit from out-sourcing.. Kerry's win will hurt their businesses in very direct way.. And Bush would never do anything to hurt a corporate America..

But really the smartest and the most intellectual people ( as opposite to the shewdest people ) like scientists, writers, engineers, they vote predominantly Dem.
ys, you're damn right again. You don't need to be very smart to be a CEO trust me. You just need connections and do a lot of sucking up.

The truly smart people are usually not rich and not famous and they're liberal.

Deal with it.

Sam L
Nov 7th, 2004, 06:43 AM
Where did you get this assumption?:haha:
It's not an assumption, look at the articles written about how the Nobel prize winners serious criticize Bush's policies in Science.

JustineTime
Nov 7th, 2004, 08:36 PM
Well g-o-o-olly! Thar's a whole lotta bass ackwards bible-thumpin' rednecks in them thar counties! :lol:

http://www.hannity.com/img/usa_election_map.jpg

PSST! :secret: :hehehe: Hey, all you pseudo-intellectual elitist lefties, the good grapes are much HIGHER on the vine! ;)

:tape:

:p

polishprodigy
Nov 8th, 2004, 02:01 AM
I know when looking at the map, I was shocked to see the great divide. It is kinda amazing how Bush was able to win, considering how relatively close it was between him and Kerry (in electoral college votes that is) despite the large sea of red that ran through middle America. I was always so interested as to why New Hampshire and New Mexico seemed to buck the trend of their neighbours, but what is kinda even more interesting is that in middle america states like Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma etc. Bush won with 60-80% of the vote. If you go to so-called "strong" Democrat states like California, I think it is more like 60-40 max. But the geographical divide is something that will really divide America, but the fact remains that over half of the states support Bush (30 out of 50 is it?), but large states with electoral college votes galore (New York, California) vote Democrat which keeps the race closer.

polishprodigy
Nov 8th, 2004, 02:03 AM
Just looking at that map, some interesting notes:

Chicago is what makes Illinois go democrat...
The heavily populated Western coast of California makes it go democrat...

Its a city vs. rural fight...

Halardfan
Nov 8th, 2004, 11:11 AM
I think if you you look at the stats on voting patterns, then the one fact that screams at you, is that for whatever reason African-Americans are a lot more perceptive as a whole than the rest of the USA...they clearly have the sense to see through GW, just as the rest of the world does...they are in-step with most of humanity.

The general reaction here in Britain to Bush's re-election has been one of dis-belief...every poll taken showed, if given a vote, Britain would have returned a President Kerry with a HUGE majority. This, from your number one ally in the "War on Terror"

Of course, you wouldn't know this from Tony Blair, who has long since sold his soul to GW...oddly enough he is the first foreign leader to invited to Washington since the election...a little reward for his blind loyalty?

Some say Blair will finally get some payback for backing Bush, some movement on Israel/Palestine perhaps, or the environment.

I wouldn't hold my breath, doubtless Bush will throw him a bone, some half-hearted middle east plan, that will quietly be forgotten at the first sign of trouble.

Sam L
Nov 8th, 2004, 11:33 AM
I think if you you look at the stats on voting patterns, then the one fact that screams at you, is that for whatever reason African-Americans are a lot more perceptive as a whole than the rest of the USA...they clearly have the sense to see through GW, just as the rest of the world does...they are in-step with most of humanity.

The general reaction here in Britain to Bush's re-election has been one of dis-belief...every poll taken showed, if given a vote, Britain would have returned a President Kerry with a HUGE majority. This, from your number one ally in the "War on Terror"

Of course, you wouldn't know this from Tony Blair, who has long since sold his soul to GW...oddly enough he is the first foreign leader to invited to Washington since the election...a little reward for his blind loyalty?

Some say Blair will finally get some payback for backing Bush, some movement on Israel/Palestine perhaps, or the environment.

I wouldn't hold my breath, doubtless Bush will throw him a bone, some half-hearted middle east plan, that will quietly be forgotten at the first sign of trouble.
Hopefully Kyoto Protocol. Blair will push him.

lizchris
Nov 8th, 2004, 02:17 PM
Many less educated people voted for Bush? Let's take the 89% of a "certain segment of the population" that voted for Kerry and compare their test scores and degree to those who voted for Bush. Sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzllllleeeeeeeeeeeee

For anyone who reads into this, this person (who is a Southerner), he is saying what most white Southerners think; that blacks (they are the 89% who voted for Kerry) are:

Dumb:rolleyes:
Less educated:rolleyes:
Stupid:rolleyes:

And other adjectives that I cannot use on this board. But people wonder why we aren't the United States.