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View Full Version : Kerry just conceded Ohio, and Bush is relected to 2nd term. How do you feel?


Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:51 PM
Discuss.

Ravsieg
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:53 PM
Americans made their choice to pick Bush as their last president. Now it's done it's done. All I can hope is to die not too painfully.

Paneru
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:54 PM
:o :fiery: :o :fiery: :o :fiery: :o :fiery: :o :fiery: :o :fiery: :o :fiery:

Scotso
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:55 PM
contemplating suicide. wondering what went wrong to make my country so stupid.

Paneru
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:56 PM
Americans made their choice to pick Bush as their last president. Now it's done it's done. All I can hope is to die not too painfully.

Tell me about it! :rolleyes:

God help us all! :bolt: :bolt: :bolt:

Paneru
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:56 PM
wondering what went wrong to make my country so stupid.

Ditto!

Mike_T
Nov 3rd, 2004, 04:59 PM
:yawn:

alfajeffster
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:00 PM
Discuss.
I just got an e-mail this morning from a mother whose daughter is serving in the U.S. Army in Iraq. Her daughter wasn't even afforded the right to vote- even after requesting an absentee ballot. Her superiors just never got back to her, and she never got to vote.

That said- I think this election went off pretty well, and it was good to see the turnout. Very difficult thing to unseat an incumbent during wartime- regardless of the country. The people have spoken, and Bush clearly won this election- much better than the 2000 fiasco, and fair is fair. Do I like it? No. Did I vote for Bush? No. I accept it.

KoOlMaNsEaN
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:00 PM
I'm pissed off!!!!

SJW
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:00 PM
*rethinking my move to the US*

Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:01 PM
contemplating suicide. wondering what went wrong to make my country so stupid.
I hope that's justs a figure of speech :o

Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:02 PM
:yawn:
:confused:

nash
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:02 PM
(1). Very, very happy and thankful to God that Bush won...

(2). Extremely relieved that this is over!

(3). Concerned for the extreme division in America.

~MaRt~HiNgIs~F@N
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:02 PM
i'm pissed off

Cariaoke
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:02 PM
Where can I buy those "Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry." bumper stickers?

Martian Willow
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:03 PM
It starts with a C and ends with a Y. :)

Chiropody?

!<blocparty>!
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:05 PM
*rethinking my move to the US*
:lol: Yeah thats what I was thinking!

Emptiness
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:12 PM
Feeling a bit depressed. I hope in a couple years time America will not be faced with their errors. I hope this decision was the "right" decision. I hope Bush strongly leads America and always takes into consideration their impact on the entire world. In this situation hope is useless. Have a good day people.
:hatoff:

Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:13 PM
(3). Concerned for the extreme division in America.
I totally agree with this.

I was thinking about how the two-party system seems to becoming increasingly unworkable.

For me the Republicans have two groups of people: 1) the rich (historically) and 2) Christian conservative (new group).

Dems have two groups: 1) working class (historically) and 2) people with moderate religious views (new group).

I know of Republicans who have been that way for generations, but are also socially liberal. Same for Democrats, but socially conservative (these people have moved to the Republican party in the last two generations).

It seems to me that there really should be four parties at the present: 1) for those favoring industry, 2) those who represent the working class, 3) those who are morally conservative 3) those who are socially moderate.

In that way, the people's biggest concerns can be voiced.

SJW
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:14 PM
:lol: Yeah thats what I was thinking!

*decides to move to Australia for the year abroad* :p

Helen Lawson
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:22 PM
I feel sad, not because of the outcome, I didn't view them as very different, but because this was so hotly contested and now it's over. Half the nation is happy, half is very unhappy. Folks, I've been voting since 1940 and I've seen it all. They aren't that different.

In my 64 years of voting in presidential elections, I've never, ever, seen a country so divided in the candidate they supported. Bush people think the world would end with Kerry elected. Kerry supports think the world would end with Bush elected. It's over now and I'm sad because so many people are disappointed. But you know what, the turnout was huge and Bush won fair and square.

It's like Oscar night when I'm not nominated and just attend. It's sad and anticlimatic when the Best Actress winner is crowned, you're thrilled the dame won, a new woman in our ranks. I know how great it feels to win Best Actress, and it's amazing and there's no feeling like it in the world. But it's sad for the four other people because ALL FIVE want to win SO BADLY. And to not get it, it's awful. I should know, I lost 4 times myself. So, it's hard to see someone want something so much and not get it. I feel that way over this election. I'm heartbroken for the Kerry people but Bush really pulled it out, what can I say.

Infiniti2001
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:22 PM
contemplating suicide. wondering what went wrong to make my country so stupid.


I know how you feel :sad: -- I'm just heartsick... I haven't read too much yet but apparently dumbfuck bush's appeal to peoples' morals police impulses succeeded. :o
I mean all 11 gay hate issues passed and people said moral issues were their main concern. When did we become a nation of meddling prudes intent on policing other peoples' behavior? :fiery: :shrug:
* I just don't get this. Anyone with a brain was against the fucktard. Do people only care about persecuting gays or banning abortion??? :rolleyes:

Linnie
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:24 PM
Kerry just conceded Ohio, and Bush is relected to 2nd term. How do you feel? Like shit.

Mrs. Peel
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:26 PM
I am very angry and dismayed to live in a country trapped in the dark ages, still manipulated by religion and so called moral values.

I have to seriously re-think my place in this country. I can't sit idly by and accept the status quo. I accept that he is in office but I do not have to accept his policies and I will conscientiously be more outspoken. Bush is the enemy of the people. I feel sorry for all those people who voted against their economic interests...fooled again. :rolleyes:

Mrs. Peel
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:28 PM
I know how you feel :sad: -- I'm just heartsick... I haven't read too much yet but apparently dumbfuck bush's appeal to peoples' morals police impulses succeeded. :o
I mean all 11 gay hate issues passed and people said moral issues were their main concern. When did we become a nation of meddling prudes intent on policing other peoples' behavior? :fiery: :shrug:
* I just don't get this. Anyone with a brain was against the fucktard. Do people only care about persecuting gays or banning abortion??? :rolleyes:

Indeed...Gay hatred carried Bush to victory this time...sickening.

OUT!
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:31 PM
I'm just glad I live in Western Europe. :)

Paneru
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:34 PM
I'm just glad I live in Western Europe. :)
Where?

Maybe I can move over
there for 4 years or so.

Linnie
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:38 PM
I am very angry and dismayed to live in a country trapped in the dark ages, still manipulated by religion and so called moral values. Indeed, "moral values" :rolleyes: How "moral" is it to send young people to Iraq to get killed in a war that never should have happened in the first place??? :fiery:

griffin
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:41 PM
Depressed.

Beside myself with some of the missteps the Kerry campaign made that probably cost him the election.

Relieved that Kerry conceded, because I think to contest the election when there was no real hope of prevailing would just make a bad situation even worse.

Praying that Rehnquist sticks it out.

Thankful I live in Massachusetts.

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:42 PM
Discuss.
I guess God really does love a fool. Oh well we will survive no matter how hard the bush no brainers try to drive us into hell with their good intentions and no sense.

Funny how spin has allowed people to pick an uninformed, c minus student and cheer leader as the leader of the free world. Scary.

The puppet triumphs or should I say the puppeteers triumph? Once again an actor takes the whitehouse scamming the american public.

Well the public made their choice and I say to hell with you bush backing brainless assholes. I will be waiting to say I told you so.

He is not my president. I do not support him. And I can hardly wait until he is gone.

Kerry waited too late to jumpstart his campaign. He should have been on the attack earlier and harder.

I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an experienced war hero.

The control the house, the senate and the whitehouse so they have no one to blame or use as a scapegoat when the country goes to hell. Of course they will probably blame gays and minorities. watch and see.

OUT!
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:43 PM
Where?

Maybe I can move over
there for 4 years or so.:lol: Come over and stay with me!
I live in London - a really multicultural part where African, Asian and Caribbean immigrants and their descendants live. It's groovy :banana:

No but I like the US really, just disappointed Bush got re-elected :fiery: Hey! But it's your country, so you guys know best ;)

Paneru
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:44 PM
I guess God really does love a fool. Oh well we will survive no matter how hard the bush no brainers try to drive us into hell with their good intentions and no sense.

Funny how spin has allowed people to pick an uninformed, c minus student and cheer leader as the leader of the free world. Scary.

The puppet triumphs or should I say the puppeteers triumph? Once again an actor takes the whitehouse scamming the american public.

Well the public made their choice and I say to hell with you bush backing brainless assholes. I will be waiting to say I told you so.

He is not my president. I do not support him. And I can hardly wait until he is gone.

Kerry waited too late to jumpstart his campaign. He should have been on the attack earlier and harder.

I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an experienced war hero.

The control the house, the senate and the whitehouse so they have no one to blame or use as a scapegoat when the country goes to hell. Of course they will probably blame gays and minorities. watch and see.

Said it all!

Linnie
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:44 PM
Praying that Rehnquist sticks it out.I don't even want to think about the Supreme Court. And this time, I don't think the Democrats would have the clout to try to block any of Dubya's nominations :mad:

Thankful I live in Massachusetts.How are condo prices up there? ;)

ptkten
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:46 PM
I completely agree, the three g's carried Bush to victory: god, guns, and gays. It's ridiculous how conservative socially and so religious the south and center of our country is. There are two different countries now, a big cultural divide. I'm beginning to think that there was no point in even campaigning, because every state that voted for Bush went for him again except for New Hampshire and every state that voted for Gore, went for Kerry so far. Bush could have been caught killing someone red-handed and that half of the country would have still voted for him.

Paneru
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:49 PM
:lol: Come over and stay with me!
I live in London - a really multicultural part where African, Asian and Caribbean immigrants and their descendants live. It's groovy :banana:

No but I like the US really, just disappointed Bush got re-elected :fiery: Hey! But it's your country, so you guys know best ;)

Sounds great! :banana:

I'd be a great mate
to room with, easy going! :cool:

I like my country too, but these people who want Bush
really need to wake-up! When Bush puts our country even
further into the crapper they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

It's utterly mind-blowing how people can
allow themselves to be so manipulated!

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:50 PM
Oh and please spare me this false concern about healing our nation. What crock is that?

He said he would heal our nation four years ago and he didnt do it and so now he's magically going to heal these wounds? Please. He squandered my trust and good faith as soon as he declared war on Iraq.

These next four years wont go by fast enough and stay out of my personal life you high minded morally superior (ha!) christian pretending pieces of filth. Funny how you can proclaim to be a christian and advocate murder. Whatever.

mboyle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:53 PM
It proves that god is on the conservative side. He doesn't like seeing his defenseless children killed day after day. He doesn't like his holy institutions compromised so unfairly. He doesn't like human beings being used as science experiments. Long Live Conservatism.

griffin
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:54 PM
How are condo prices up there? ;)

Coming down :p

Tylane
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:59 PM
It's not food for France, and the relationships USA/FRANCE :mad:

Justeenium
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:00 PM
I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an admitted war criminal.

.
fixed

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:03 PM
contemplating suicide. wondering what went wrong to make my country so stupid.
No truer words have ever been spoken. :sad:

bis2806
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:04 PM
I think Kerry should count the provisional ballots before giving up :confused: although the numbers might not surpass his expectations, there's always a chance

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:04 PM
It proves that god is on the conservative side. He doesn't like seeing his defenseless children killed day after day. He doesn't like his holy institutions compromised so unfairly. He doesn't like human beings being used as science experiments. Long Live Conservatism.
What does god have to do with any of this? How warped are you? Are you one of those people who think god helps decides tennis matches? You truly are pathetic and whats worse do not even know what conservatism is. Bush has hijacked convservatism and turned it into a vehicle for his own agenda. Wait, I meant the agenda of his handlers because he is beyond a doubt nothing but a trained monkey being told what to do.

See, here is a true fanatic and hypocrite. You talk about god and conservatism, please. I dont see conservatives acting christlike. Where is the plan to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, tend the sick, heal and protect the weak?

Oh I get it you only do those things if there is oil at stake.

Oh wait you claim to be pro life and then send people to the gas chamber.

Fanatics like you will run this country into the ground.

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:05 PM
(1). Very, very happy and thankful to God that Bush won...

(2). Extremely relieved that this is over!

(3). Concerned for the extreme division in America.
Forgive them Father, for they know not what they have done. :sad:

Cybelle Darkholme
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:06 PM
fixed
Its nice to see republican trickery at work. See people this how its done: lie and manipulate.

Your take after your bumbling monkey president very well.

griffin
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:09 PM
Please stop insulting monkeys.

turt
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Cybelle Darkholme

I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an admitted war criminal. fixed
What should be fixed is your brain! By the way the cheerleader actually is the one you should label "admitted war criminal" if you weren't intellectually dishonest... :tape:

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:20 PM
Indeed...Gay hatred carried Bush to victory this time...sickening.
I don't know if I said it, but I feel utterly sick and very depressed. :sad:

What is wrong with the American people???? This man lied straight to their faces and they voted him back in. He invaded a country for no reason other than money and young kids are dying because of it. We are in danger of another terroristic attack by the same person who attacked us the first time who he never really put any effort into catching. Makes no sense. The country's deficit is growing by the second and they voted him back in. Makes no sense. His family has ties to Al Quaida(sp?) and they voted him back in. Makes no sense. He gives tax breaks to companies who farm out jobs to foreign countries and take away jobs from Americans and they voted him back in. Makes no sense. He was the cause of the loss of 270 jobs in Ohio and they voted him back in. Makes no sense. The situation is worsening by the minute in Iraq and they voted him back in. Makes no sense.

I just don't understand what is wrong with the people in this country. The very same people (middle America) he is fucking, voted him back in. Makes no sense. :sad:

cmasters
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:22 PM
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I praise God the right man won!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hagar
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:24 PM
I feel gutted. I can't even stand to watch the images of the triumphant Bush. YUK!

If there would not have been a war situation, he would never have been re-elected. People were afraid for a change seen the fact that there is a war.

What will become of the world?

I sometimes fear that if in 10 years we tell kids about the 60ies and the hippies, they will simply not believe that the world was ever like that.

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:25 PM
I guess God really does love a fool. Oh well we will survive no matter how hard the bush no brainers try to drive us into hell with their good intentions and no sense.

Funny how spin has allowed people to pick an uninformed, c minus student and cheer leader as the leader of the free world. Scary.

The puppet triumphs or should I say the puppeteers triumph? Once again an actor takes the whitehouse scamming the american public.

Well the public made their choice and I say to hell with you bush backing brainless assholes. I will be waiting to say I told you so.

He is not my president. I do not support him. And I can hardly wait until he is gone.

Kerry waited too late to jumpstart his campaign. He should have been on the attack earlier and harder.

I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an experienced war hero.

The control the house, the senate and the whitehouse so they have no one to blame or use as a scapegoat when the country goes to hell. Of course they will probably blame gays and minorities. watch and see.
:worship: :worship: :worship: My thoughts exactly. :sad: :sad: :sad:

saki
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:25 PM
How do I feel? I feel very sorry for America. I never really believed that Kerry would offer anything other than a change of rhetoric on foreign policy, my dislike of Bush is founded mostly on his domestic agenda. In particular his attitude towards abortion and gay marriage:

Abortion: I think what really annoys me about Bush's views on abortion is that they aren't pro-life, they're just anti-abortion. I can understand the position that abortion is murder but I only respect those "pro-lifers" who actually seek to do something to care about people, children and babies and not just foetuses. If Bush had encouraged the responsible use of contraception and not opposed the distribution of contraception both in the U.S. and abroad, I could respect him. He's not Catholic, he doesn't think contraception is wrong, he's just anti-abortion so logically it would make sense for him to seek to minimise the number of "murders" by encouraging the distribution of contraception. If he'd sought to make adoption laws in the U.S. simpler, I could respect him. I've seen what seem to me to be sensible suggestions whereby pregnant women who don't want to keep their babies could be put in touch with couples who want to adopt and are willing to pay medical expenses, for example, and I'm sure there are countless other ways that the adoption system could be improved. If Bush had sought to provide medical expenses for pregnant women in poverty, I could respect him. If he'd made any attempt whatsoever to make it easier for women to choose not to have abortions or avoid pregnancy in the first place, I could respect his position, but he's made no such attempt. He has shown no sign of caring about either women or children and that is not, to my mind, a pro-life position at all. It's anti-abortion.

Gay marriage: it's, plain and simple, the denial of civil rights to a minority group. Gay marriage would benefit a minority and harm no-one. I accept that some churches may not want to have gay religious marriages but gay secular marriages have nothing to do with the church. In the same way that the Catholic church doesn't accept divorce, but doesn't seek to make it illegal, the Evangelical churches should allow those not within their ranks to make their own decisions. This issue just makes me furious, not only on account of my gay American friends who are denied the right to marry their longterm partners, but because it's turning the U.S. into a theocracy. The U.S. is not far off deciding that things like adultery are immoral and thus should be illegal. Whatever happened to freedom of choice?

Those are the two issues that make me angry with Bush, but even apart from that - he's fucked up the economy and has a huge budget deficit because he wanted a war and tax cuts for his friends. I just see no earthly reason why he's been given the mandate to rule the most powerful country on earth and I feel deeply deeply sorry for the people of America. And very very grateful (not for the first time) that my parents chose to decline green cards when I was little and stay in Britain. I may not like Tony Blair very much, but he's nowhere near as frightening as Bush.

R&J
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:26 PM
Where can I buy those "Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry." bumper stickers?
LOL! :yeah:

Martian Jeza
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:26 PM
Great from Ohio to prefer the battle against terorism and Bush abuse's of religion instead of te battle against unemployement : What a bunch of retards in some US regions ! We can start a poll now :" Which country will he invade in the near future with fictitious reasons ? " Bush is an incompetent : A pitty some people in America don't see it ! Bush has axed his campain on lies and hypocrisy !

But don't forget Bush : Europe hates YOU ( except Blair ) and the most of the rest of the world also !!!

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:27 PM
I completely agree, the three g's carried Bush to victory: god, guns, and gays. It's ridiculous how conservative socially and so religious the south and center of our country is. There are two different countries now, a big cultural divide. I'm beginning to think that there was no point in even campaigning, because every state that voted for Bush went for him again except for New Hampshire and every state that voted for Gore, went for Kerry so far. Bush could have been caught killing someone red-handed and that half of the country would have still voted for him.
He was caught killing millions of his own people, red-handed and they still voted for him. :sad:

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:28 PM
Oh and please spare me this false concern about healing our nation. What crock is that?

He said he would heal our nation four years ago and he didnt do it and so now he's magically going to heal these wounds? Please. He squandered my trust and good faith as soon as he declared war on Iraq.

These next four years wont go by fast enough and stay out of my personal life you high minded morally superior (ha!) christian pretending pieces of filth. Funny how you can proclaim to be a christian and advocate murder. Whatever.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Martian Jeza
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:29 PM
It's not food for France, and the relationships USA/FRANCE :mad:

He doesn't care about France and Europe either !

PatM04
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:30 PM
I am happy. I think both candidates did the best they could to get elected. IMO George Bush will lead the country in the morally correct direction and keep the country moving forward. I know a lot of people disagree but that is just how I feel. I would like to congratulate John Kerry for a strong run and being as gracious in defeat as he has been. I wish he and his family luck in the rest of their endeavours.

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:30 PM
What does god have to do with any of this? How warped are you? Are you one of those people who think god helps decides tennis matches? You truly are pathetic and whats worse do not even know what conservatism is. Bush has hijacked convservatism and turned it into a vehicle for his own agenda. Wait, I meant the agenda of his handlers because he is beyond a doubt nothing but a trained monkey being told what to do.

See, here is a true fanatic and hypocrite. You talk about god and conservatism, please. I dont see conservatives acting christlike. Where is the plan to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, tend the sick, heal and protect the weak?

Oh I get it you only do those things if there is oil at stake.

Oh wait you claim to be pro life and then send people to the gas chamber.

Fanatics like you will run this country into the ground.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Martian Jeza
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:33 PM
I am happy. I think both candidates did the best they could to get elected. IMO George Bush will lead the country in the morally correct direction and keep the country moving forward. I know a lot of people disagree but that is just how I feel. I would like to congratulate John Kerry for a strong run and being as gracious in defeat as he has been. I wish he and his family luck in the rest of their endeavours.

Morally ??? LMAO ! He's a retard at that level and at many others too ! Keep the country moving forward ? Indeed, into more and more depts !

V.S.
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:34 PM
I feel gutted. I can't even stand to watch the images of the triumphant Bush.

It's amazing to me how Bush was reelected. I live in North Carolina and was hoping John Edwards could help Kerry win this state. So much for wishful thinking. I was listening to the radio this morning and a lot of being are already talking about not voting in the next election because they feel like it is useless. They feel like they wasted their time standing in lines for hours and Bush still won.

Hopefully the Democrats will start mobilizing TODAY for the 2008 election (if we make it to 2008). I have already promosed myself that I will be more involved in 2008 by making phone calls, canvassing, etc.

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:39 PM
I am happy. I think both candidates did the best they could to get elected. IMO George Bush will lead the country in the morally correct direction and keep the country moving forward.
That might be true if he had some morals himself. Why can't you see that??? :sad: It's so so sad.

saki
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:40 PM
Hopefully the Democrats will start mobilizing TODAY for the 2008 election (if we make it to 2008). I have already promosed myself that I will be more involved in 2008 by making phone calls, canvassing, etc.
Get your friends to do it too. The one positive thing I can see from this election is that there is a more determined and focussed Liberal movement in the U.S. It's absolutely vital that, next time, everyone opposed to the foul fundamentalism of the Bush regime does everything possible to bring it down.

RVD
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:40 PM
I guess God really does love a fool. Oh well we will survive no matter how hard the bush no brainers try to drive us into hell with their good intentions and no sense.

Funny how spin has allowed people to pick an uninformed, c minus student and cheer leader as the leader of the free world. Scary.

The puppet triumphs or should I say the puppeteers triumph? Once again an actor takes the whitehouse scamming the american public.

Well the public made their choice and I say to hell with you bush backing brainless assholes. I will be waiting to say I told you so.

He is not my president. I do not support him. And I can hardly wait until he is gone.

Kerry waited too late to jumpstart his campaign. He should have been on the attack earlier and harder.

I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an experienced war hero.

The control the house, the senate and the whitehouse so they have no one to blame or use as a scapegoat when the country goes to hell. Of course they will probably blame gays and minorities. watch and see.Yep. That pretty much sums it up for me.

He is not my president, nor do I support him. Moreover, I don't accept this outcome because of all the behind-the-scene juggling of the ballots. But I will continue on as I have over the last 4 years, with the hope that Hell will run it's course.

The only way this mess can be corrected is if Shrub is unceremoniously impeached by the very 'nadless boneheads who elected him.

jacobruiz
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:47 PM
I kinda felt this way before but now I have proof.

Sadly, there IS no god.

The long-term ramifications of this outcome; judicial appointees, especially the U.S. Supreme court, the irreversable damage that will be done to our enviroment(air, water, etc.) and formerly protected natural areas, less money for education, people without health insurance and costs continuing to skyrocket, the economy failing, job loss because companys will continue to lay off workers and move overseas

Not to mention the war and terrorism...

Justeenium
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:54 PM
[/i]
What should be fixed is your brain! By the way the cheerleader actually is the one you should label "admitted war criminal" if you weren't intellectually dishonest... :tape:you Idiot, Kerry admitted he used a .50 machine gun on a person.

get your shit straight.

Justeenium
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:00 PM
. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people I'm not saying his service was not honorable, but he did admit he was a war criminal

Bacardi
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:03 PM
Sad. Sad. Sad.

Disheartened that the idiots out numbered us in voting.

But I'm going to be happy come January cuz those that voted for Bush can get what they deserve, I'm bailing out of being a US Citizen come Jan.

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:07 PM
Dani.. You can not imagine how stupid some of your posts do look.. Grow up already..

Circe
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:10 PM
Sad. Sad. Sad.

Disheartened that the idiots out numbered us in voting.

But I'm going to be happy come January cuz those that voted for Bush can get what they deserve, I'm bailing out of being a US Citizen come Jan.
fleeing the burning ship, Bacardi?

njguido11
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:11 PM
Today is a great day. Watching kerry now and hes honestly giving a great speech glad to see him take the high road. He seems more real right now than through the whole campaign. Edwards is on my shit list, he just doesnt get it. THe country needs to come together. Great speech Kerry!

PatM04
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:13 PM
That might be true if he had some morals himself. Why can't you see that??? :sad: It's so so sad.He has Christian morals which are the most important kind. I am not saying that John Kerry doesn't as well but both interpret them differently. I personally agree with George Bush on issues like the War in Iraq, terrorism, Gay marriage and unions, and the economy. He has held a Christian stand on those issues and has turned to God in every decision and I for one as an avid Christian am happy that the decisions of this country will be turned over to God. I am not saying that all Chrisitans in this country agree with me but it's just how I feel and if you don't agree with that, thats fine. I respect your opinion but just simply don't agree.

Hagar
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:17 PM
The morals of Bush are dead letter. I haven't seen one ounce of true empathy in that guy. His faith is just what alcohol used to be for him: a drug, an escape.

Kerry is now giving his conceding speech and there is a lot more CARE in the way he talks.

ys
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:21 PM
How do I feel? I don't like either of them.. But do I dislike Bush more than twice as much as Kerry, so that I would preferred 8 years of Kerry as a lesser evil comparing to 4 years of Bush? Probably, yes.. But the differnce really is not that big for me..

Seles_Beckham
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:27 PM
Glad to be European and to live in Europe. This is just sad. ...

JustineTime
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:46 PM
Like so many of you, I'm seeing red and feeling a little:hehehe: blue:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/images/emaps/2004.gif
;)

:wavey: :kiss:

:)

Knizzle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:49 PM
I'm gutted, it's a sad day in America. At least we here in Illinois did our part to get Bush out of office.

Knizzle
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:55 PM
It proves that god is on the conservative side. He doesn't like seeing his defenseless children killed day after day. He doesn't like his holy institutions compromised so unfairly. He doesn't like human beings being used as science experiments. Long Live Conservatism. Boy you need to shut up, God doesn't like false prophets either which is what you are being here trying to speak for Him like he told you this himself. God is not on any political side. How stupid is it to believe that God would need to be affiliated with a political party. This is the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life and you have said some stupid stuff on this board.

Topher950
Nov 3rd, 2004, 07:56 PM
Here is how i feel....bush has had a republican house and senate for the last two years (i think).....If he was going to pass all these good things....why not do it then...when he knows they should pass. I dont necassarily think Kerry is anybetter...but bush had his chance....i would like to have seen what kerry could have done!!! Ughhhh OHIO!!! Dissapointment. Maybe this will make bush a little more careful about what he does! I would also like to state that we in Pennsylvania did our part to get bush out!!...i will say it again UGHHHHH OHIOOOOOO!!!

Steff_forever
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:01 PM
depressed.

And I feel more afraid of this president than 4 years ago. And it's really scary what this president is able to do now with the higher political power and the military means he can and will use. And I'm afraid that the US gets more and more intolerant and crude under "W".

Helen Lawson
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:02 PM
Kerry gave a nice speech, hard-hearted Helen even sort of had a tear in her eye for him, and I'm no fan of Kerry (or Bush). He was a good guy who ran a nice, clean campaign and had a ton of support. I feel bad for him, but he lost fair and square.

I wonder if Teresa is secretly thrilled. Did anyone get the impression she wasn't really into it? I mean, if I'm worth like $800 million, no way am I going to take that crap job on as first lady and have to deal with all that political shit.

tobe
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:04 PM
It proves that god is on the conservative side. He doesn't like seeing his defenseless children killed day after day. He doesn't like his holy institutions compromised so unfairly. He doesn't like human beings being used as science experiments. Long Live Conservatism.

:rolleyes: THIS proves how stupid Bush voters are! GOD doesn't like seeing his children dying??? Wake up, they are dying every day because of George fucking Bush wanted to kick Saddams ass

CC
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:09 PM
Ah well. I think this is a big mistake to re-elect President Bush, but we press on.

Jennifer's wife
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:15 PM
wohoo! 4 more years to take the piss out of george duhbya bush! :woohoo:

Veegeta
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:18 PM
Feelings are complicated that’s why I try to stay away from them, but what I know is I would like for Bush to do a better job these next four years at the least I would like to see the unemployment rate drop. Basically keeping jobs in the U.S. when these blue chip companies get their big breaks. I know there are other issues such as healthcare, wars, education and equal rights but all I'm hoping for is employment. That’s not asking for a lot or is it?

DeDe4925
Nov 3rd, 2004, 08:52 PM
He has Christian morals which are the most important kind. I am not saying that John Kerry doesn't as well but both interpret them differently. I personally agree with George Bush on issues like the War in Iraq, terrorism, Gay marriage and unions, and the economy. He has held a Christian stand on those issues and has turned to God in every decision and I for one as an avid Christian am happy that the decisions of this country will be turned over to God. I am not saying that all Chrisitans in this country agree with me but it's just how I feel and if you don't agree with that, thats fine. I respect your opinion but just simply don't agree.
Sending innocent kids to their death over oil and big business corporations is Christian morals?

Not making an effort to find the one person who terrorized us on 9/11 and killed thousands and who is still at large and making more threats is Christian morals?

Saying that he didn't believe in Gay marriages, but he supported gay unions is Christian morals?

Lying about the reason we invaded Iraq (there is no war honey...there's a slaughter going on) is Christian morals?

I am an advid Christian myself, but one who's eyes are open. You choose to be blind. WAKE UP before it's too late. This man may possibly be the Anti-Christ and you are either too dumb or too blind to see how you've been brainwashed by him. Good God Help Us All!!!

Stamp Paid
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:00 PM
<LOL, funny how I have never encountered a Republican Williams Sister fan.>

Anyway, I feel like my vote was shit because I didnt live in a swing state.

PatM04
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:10 PM
Sending innocent kids to their death over oil and big business corporations is Christian morals?

Not making an effort to find the one person who terrorized us on 9/11 and killed thousands and who is still at large and making more threats is Christian morals?

Saying that he didn't believe in Gay marriages, but he supported gay unions is Christian morals?

Lying about the reason we invaded Iraq (there is no war honey...there's a slaughter going on) is Christian morals?

I am an advid Christian myself, but one who's eyes are open. You choose to be blind. WAKE UP before it's too late. This man may possibly be the Anti-Christ and you are either too dumb or too blind to see how you've been brainwashed by him. Good God Help Us All!!!This is not a war for oil and there was no lie. This is not a Slaughter. There are MASS graves with thousands of INNOCENT people in them in Iraq because one of the most evil men in the world was in power until we removed him and freed many people. Yes, innocent BUT honorable and willing people have gone over to help end evil and unfortunately some have lost their lives. If someone joins the army then they don't need to complain about being sent overseas (especially in this day and time). How can you even begin to argue with that? You can't expect a country to turn around overnight and Iraq is a work in progress but the key word there is progress, and we are making it. Millions of Iraqi (and middle eastern) lives have been saved. I have many relatives overseas at the moment and they know they are fighting for what is honorable and Right and they are willing to die for the betterment of others which is what we are called to do by God, help others no matter what. Jesus layed down his life for everyone and we are called to be Christ like. I am not saying that people should be sent for the sole purpose of dying but it is part of war that should be accepted by all soldiers. George Bush has done everything within his power to capture Osama Bin Laden and he won't stop until it has been done. The war on Terror is huge issue and no one has had the guts to start one until now. It will take time but I promise you when it is over the world will be a safer place. Check out Deuteronomy 9:4-6 to see a Biblical reason to go to war. Saving lives, preserving what GOD defined as the family, and trying to bring morality back to the country is what Christian morals are all about.

Stamp Paid
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:19 PM
This is not a war for oil and there was no lie. This is not a Slaughter. There are MASS graves with thousands of INNOCENT people in them in Iraq because one of the most evil men in the world was in power until we removed him and freed many people. Yes, innocent BUT honorable and willing people have gone over to help end evil and unfortunately some have lost their lives. If someone joins the army then they don't need to complain about being sent overseas (especially in this day and time). How can you even begin to argue with that? You can't expect a country to turn around overnight and Iraq is a work in progress but the key word there is progress, and we are making it. Millions of Iraqi (and middle eastern) lives have been saved. I have many relatives overseas at the moment and they know they are fighting for what is honorable and Right and they are willing to die for the betterment of others which is what we are called to do by God, help others no matter what. Jesus layed down his life for everyone and we are called to be Christ like. I am not saying that people should be sent for the sole purpose of dying but it is part of war that should be accepted by all soldiers. George Bush has done everything within his power to capture Osama Bin Laden and he won't stop until it has been done. The war on Terror is huge issue and no one has had the guts to start one until now. It will take time but I promise you when it is over the world will be a safer place. Check out Deuteronomy 9:4-6 to see a Biblical reason to go to war. Saving lives, preserving what GOD defined as the family, and trying to bring morality back to the country is what Christian morals are all about.

So where is our moral obligation to:
the millions of AIDS orphans?
the forced child soldiers?
The genocide committed against Black Africans in Darfur?
The massive gangrapes of women and girls in the Democratic Republic of the Congo?
The child exploitation/prostitution occuring in Southeast Asia?

How can we just liberate Iraq, a country that was at least stable if nothing else, but forget about all the billions of otheer poor suffering innocent people in Africa?

:confused:

Stamp Paid
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:23 PM
Oh yeah, I hope God sends you to hell for ignoring these other crimes against humanity as if they were unimportant. :D

pcrtennis
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:26 PM
I am so happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm proud to support our President fior 4 MORE YEARS!!!!

I'm glad the American people chose wisely, Kerry would have cared more about the feelings of European leaders than the safety of our country!!!!!!

Sally Struthers
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:32 PM
Is there oil in Africa :scratch:

there is in Nigeria

PatM04
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:32 PM
Oh yeah, I hope God sends you to hell for ignoring these other crimes against humanity as if they were unimportant. :DI have tried to be as classy during this as possible but unfortunately you have stooped to a new low. I can assure you someone with my convictions prays for things like these issues everyday. I am NOT ignoring them. I was simply addressing the issues brought up in DeDes post and none of the ones you talk about were mentioned in her post. I also pray for people like you everynight. Even if you were joking that was not funny and totally uncalled for. I hope your opinions (changed or unchanged) reach a new level of maturity soon.

lizchris
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:38 PM
I feel like the USA is going into conservative Christian hell because these people are the biggest hypocrites and sinners in the world.

Hagar
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:39 PM
I have tried to be as classy during this as possible but unfortunately you have stooped to a new low. I can assure you someone with my convictions prays for things like these issues everyday. I am NOT ignoring them. I was simply addressing the issues brought up in DeDes post and none of the ones you talk about were mentioned in her post. I also pray for people like you everynight. Even if you were joking that was not funny and totally uncalled for. I hope your opinions (changed or unchanged) reach a new level of maturity soon.
I think one should not pray for political issues to be solved. It's much wiser to read about them, try to understand causes and consequences, look at the different angles and then come up with a solution which guarantees an improvement which is solid.

If political issues in a vast country as the USA are solved by praying, you go back to the dark Medieval era where people left everything for God to solve. But at least they had an excuse them: lack of knowledge. That excuse is no longer valid.
IMHO, deliberately ignoring knowledge that is available, choosing the remain blind for the world as it is and exists and let irrational "beliefs" prevail, that is immoral!

Edward.
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:03 PM
I feel fucking pissed off.

tterb
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:15 PM
Pretty depressed, honestly.

I didn't like either candidate. But I disliked Bush more. What upsets me most, though, is the whole system. What do you do if you are a moderate, or maybe you're conservative on some issues and liberal on others? I don't like being forced to choose which issues are the most important to me at the complete expense of other issues. I'm sure no party could ever include the exact views of all its members, but two parties seems to leave way too many people choosing the "lesser of two evils." Why do I have to choose an "evil" in the first place?

Topher950
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:23 PM
Im kinda pissed at the united states...If you look at the election map...it the EXACt SAME AS last election...i think...minus New Mexico...and New hampshire...it is the EXACT SAME as 2000. I think people in the United States are to concerned with the "party system". WHere i work there are a whole bunch of people who are die hard republicans, and democrates. I asked them once....if Drew Barrymore was a (insereted their party here) would you vote for her. Half of them didnt know who she was but they still said they would vote for her!!!!. I dont think enough people take the time to sit back and listen to the issues. I may be wrong on this...but I give a lot of props to New Mexico, and New Hampshire. Even though New Mexico went Bush instead of Kerry, i still give them props for changing things up. With the way its goin now...We only need about 8 states to vote, PA, OH, FL, MI, NM, IOWA, WI, MI, MO Everyone else is just staying the Same.

tterb
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:30 PM
Oh yeah... I live in Indiana. You know, the state that pops up after about 5 minutes of the election show as projected to be Republican? And I hear a lot of opinions around campus that make me wonder how people decide to vote for a Presidential candidate. I came up with a list based on what I was hearing:

Person A) Accepts political philosophy of his/her parents without a trace of individual choice-making. (unfortunately, my sister fell into this category)

Person B) Didn't actually research the issues. Based vote on gut feelings or limited knowledge from the media (i.e. watched the debates).

Person C) Chose candidate based on "character" and "moral values."

Person D) Chose "the lesser of two evils" because it's "unpatriotic" not to vote.

Person E) Spent time researching the issues and came to the decision their chosen candidate would improve the U.S.'s fortunes.

Guess which category of person I found the least of? ;)

Seriously, though, voting is most definitely a right that everyone deserves, but where I'm from, I've seen way too many people abuse that right by not doing any critical thinking of their own at all before voting. There's no excuse for some of the ignorance I've seen where I'm from... Whichever way you decided to vote, I hope you actually looked a little more deeply into the issues than people here.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 12:33 AM
This is not a war for oil and there was no lie. This is not a Slaughter. There are MASS graves with thousands of INNOCENT people in them in Iraq because one of the most evil men in the world was in power until we removed him and freed many people.

Well, he lied about the reason we invaded Iraq after 9/11. He said we were going over there for WMD's. There were none. Then he said we were going over there to rescue the people of Iraq from an evil dictator. The people looked as if they were doing fine until we invaded their country. They had running water, homes and food. Now they don't. History has proven that when the citizens of a country are ready to rebel against tyranny, they will do so on their own and ask for help if they needed. No one in Iraq asked Bush to do what he did. It is a slaughter of innocent Iraqis and now innocent soldiers and for what? It doesn't stop terrorism. The terrorist is in Afghanistan and we didn't send an army over there to get the one person who sent men on our soil to kill us. We invaded Iraq.

Yes, innocent BUT honorable and willing people have gone over to help end evil and unfortunately some have lost their lives. If someone joins the army then they don't need to complain about being sent overseas (especially in this day and time). How can you even begin to argue with that?

Our soldiers give their lives for our country, but we shouldn't ask them to invade a country and risk their lives for a lie.

You can't expect a country to turn around overnight and Iraq is a work in progress but the key word there is progress, and we are making it.

I'm sorry but I don't see any progress. Only regression on both sides.

Millions of Iraqi (and middle eastern) lives have been saved.

How? By bombing them out of their homes, cutting off their running water, stealing their oil and cutting them off from food supply?

I have many relatives overseas at the moment and they know they are fighting for what is honorable and Right and they are willing to die for the betterment of others which is what we are called to do by God, help others no matter what.

Who chose Iraq, and why that country? So many other countries are suffering under evil dictators and dying every day.

Jesus layed down his life for everyone and we are called to be Christ like. I am not saying that people should be sent for the sole purpose of dying but it is part of war that should be accepted by all soldiers.

For a valid reason, not for oil.

George Bush has done everything within his power to capture Osama Bin Laden and he won't stop until it has been done. The war on Terror is huge issue and no one has had the guts to start one until now. It will take time but I promise you when it is over the world will be a safer place.

Oh really, then why didn't we send troops to Afghanistan instead of Iraq?

Check out Deuteronomy 9:4-6 to see a Biblical reason to go to war.

Check out any one of the four gospels where Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself and turn the other cheek.

Saving lives, preserving what GOD defined as the family, and trying to bring morality back to the country is what Christian morals are all about.

George Bush is taking lives and destroying families, but in Iraq and in this country. Like I said, the man needs morals before he can do anything about the morality of this country.

~RedRose~
Nov 4th, 2004, 12:40 AM
I think America made the correct decision.

~RedRose~
Nov 4th, 2004, 12:43 AM
Check out any one of the four gospels where Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself and turn the other cheek.


Im finding the love your neighbour part but the part where you are meant to turn the other cheek ... hmmm .... nup can't find it.

ys
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:11 AM
I feel like the USA is going into conservative Christian hell

I know you would stongly prefer it going into conservative Islamic paradise.. Still , take it easy..

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:32 AM
Im kinda pissed at the united states...If you look at the election map...it the EXACt SAME AS last election...i think...minus New Mexico...and New hampshire...it is the EXACT SAME as 2000. I think people in the United States are to concerned with the "party system". WHere i work there are a whole bunch of people who are die hard republicans, and democrates. I asked them once....if Drew Barrymore was a (insereted their party here) would you vote for her. Half of them didnt know who she was but they still said they would vote for her!!!!. I dont think enough people take the time to sit back and listen to the issues. I may be wrong on this...but I give a lot of props to New Mexico, and New Hampshire. Even though New Mexico went Bush instead of Kerry, i still give them props for changing things up. With the way its goin now...We only need about 8 states to vote, PA, OH, FL, MI, NM, IOWA, WI, MI, MO Everyone else is just staying the Same.
I agree with the issue part. The Republicans didn't listen to the issues, nor Bush's response to them. Nor did they look at his record of lies and deceit.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:35 AM
Im finding the love your neighbour part but the part where you are meant to turn the other cheek ... hmmm .... nup can't find it.
Look again. Try Matthew 5:39, if you really have a bible, Miss Christian. When you find it, just say..."I'm sorry DeDe, you were right and I was wrong". :o

GBFH
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:45 AM
I know you would stongly prefer it going into conservative Islamic paradise.. Still , take it easy..
:lol:

~RedRose~
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:52 AM
Look again. Try Matthew 5:39, if you really have a bible, Miss Christian. When you find it, just say..."I'm sorry DeDe, you were right and I was wrong". :o

"you do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you, if he slaps you on the right cheek let him slap you on the left"

That doesnt mean you just ignore it though, usually thats what turning the other cheek is, ignoring it and pretending it didn't happen.

Frank Riley
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:54 AM
I was making a point at another site about how the 2004 election went and how the West Coast and upper Eastern Coast voted for Kerry and how the Heart Land of the USA voted for Bush. Truth is the USA is very divided. I actual made many responses basically saying that educated people that speak correct English voted for Kerry and that those with speach problems voted for Bush. This is my last response and I have brought it here so you may comment and we can get this all out in the open. I am sure many European people have a thought and response. If you did not like the last two years get ready for 4 more years just like it. I am from California a State that voted for Kerry all the way. This is your chance to let it all out so go for it!


Kerry is the better man and we all can see that. Kerry is a real war vet, Kerry has a much better education, Kerry has better ideas, Kerry won all the debates and to be honest Bush is screwing up the USA.

I have been across the USA many times and I have lived in many States, I know exactly what I am talking about. The South is the South and it is still full of slow talking ignorant white people that know nothing about Europe and they also hate blacks very much down there, racism is very strong in the South and it in no wonder they want to kill more Arabs in the South.

First word G.W. Bush said when he had won and gave a speach, he said Yall, that is both poor grammer and incorrect words that mean nothing, he should have said "thank you everyone for coming to day", instead he said, "thankYall for comin", he does not speak english, he is stupid and is the worst person we could have in office. But to be honest the poor english he used is how the mid west and south speaks.

My point exactly is that in general most of the educational power and ability is associated with States that voted for Kerry.

The best thing about all this is that now Bush can continue killing Arabs and when it is all done it will all be his fault. In fact it can only get worse at this point and it will. By the way for all the Arabs you better learn how to be democratic the Republican way and Baptist Christian very fast or Mr. Bush will kill you. That goes for all the people in the world.

One final note, the Germans elected Hitler because they thought he was a great man, how did Hitler turn out. Hitler wanted to correct the world as well, Hitler wanted everyone to be German and Christian. You tell me the difference here? Does Bush wish for all the world to be democratic, Christian, non-gay, Southern, Cowboy? You tell me how this well end?

Kerry is a better man and I hope Kerry runs again because after Bush has further fucked it all up I hope I can vote for Kerry again because I can not support Monkey Boy.

~RedRose~
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:57 AM
Kerry is the better man and we all can see that. Kerry is a real war vet, Kerry has a much better education, Kerry has better ideas, Kerry won all the debates and to be honest Bush is screwing up the USA.

Most of the voting public disagree with you.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 01:57 AM
"you do not take revenge on someone who wrongs you, if he slaps you on the right cheek let him slap you on the left"

That doesnt mean you just ignore it though, usually thats what turning the other cheek is, ignoring it and pretending it didn't happen.
:lol: Now you've shown what an idiot you really are.

If the gospel says "DO NOT TAKE REVENGE"... and you say that doesn't mean just ignore it, what do you suggest this passage means?

~RedRose~
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:03 AM
:lol: Now you've shown what an idiot you really are.

If the gospel says "DO NOT TAKE REVENGE"... and you say that doesn't mean just ignore it, what do you suggest this passage means?

.... ummm you are laughing at me? ..... The bible can be interpreted in many ways.

I read that passage as Revenge is wrong, and just because someone does something to you does not automatically condone you to do the same to them. Instead, if they do something bad to you, you should deal with it in the proper way, by not letting it get the better of you.

If the true meaning of the passage was to turn the other cheek, why would it say to turn your cheek and let him slap the other, or if someone takes you to court over a shirt give him your coat aswell or if they force you to carry a pack 1 km to carry it 2 km ..... those things are far from ignoring it. Ignoring it would be "If someone slaps you on the right cheek do not slap him back, but instead walk away" ..... it doesn't say that ..... so laugh all you want, but that is how I read the passage.

Frank Riley
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:05 AM
But the World Agrees with me and that is more important!

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:07 AM
.... ummm you are laughing at me? ..... The bible can be interpreted in many ways.

I read that passage as Revenge is wrong, and just because someone does something to you does not automatically condone you to do the same to them. Instead, if they do something bad to you, you should deal with it in the proper way, by not letting it get the better of you.

If the true meaning of the passage was to turn the other cheek, why would it say to turn your cheek and let him slap the other, or if someone takes you to court over a shirt give him your coat aswell or if they force you to carry a pack 1 km to carry it 2 km ..... those things are far from ignoring it. Ignoring it would be "If someone slaps you on the right cheek do not slap him back, but instead walk away" ..... it doesn't say that ..... so laugh all you want, but that is how I read the passage.
Well!! :lol: Hmmm, it says alot about the type of logic you use and why you are a Bush supporter.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:24 AM
Go look up that verse on google ...... every site talks about how it is saying to not respond to insults in a violent manner .... nothing about turning the other cheek .... sorry ..... but I think you are wrong
Maybe you should try going to church for your answers to Bible scripture, instead of Google. This is a trip, you're the Bush supporter and you don't know anything about Christianity. The phrase "turning the other cheek" comes from the King James version of the Bible. It states in pertinent part..."but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." In simple terms, it means that you should not strike back at a person who has hurt you, but simply let it go and do not retaliate. It is better to let someone do the same thing to you twice then to retaliate.

You say to not let it go, but to deal with it in a proper way. What is the proper way? What would you do if someone slapped you? How would you properly deal with it? Suing would be retaliation. Reporting it to the police would be retaliation. Anything you do in response would be retaliation. So, what is your answer?

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:30 AM
Go look up that verse on google ...... every site talks about how it is saying to not respond to insults in a violent manner .... nothing about turning the other cheek .... sorry ..... but I think you are wrong

Like I said before .... Ignoring is something totally different. The verse is meant to show that you neither respond violently or ignore it but instead let them do it again ..... and forgive them for it.

The whole verse is about forgiving instead of taking revenge. Far from ignoring. Go take a bible class.
I never said it doesn't mean forgiveness, but you have injected something that it does not say specifically either. Neither did I say anything about ignoring it. You did. But, by the same token, it means to let them do it again, don't take retaliation and forgive them. The only thing about your final interpretation is that you used circular logic to get there when you saw how wrong you were initially and couldn't get out of it without coming back to the true meaning of the passage.

So, back to the point, why did Bush invade Iraq and kill thousands of people because Saddam threatened to kill his father? Because that's what he said. I thought he was a Christian. Aren't you supposed to love your neighbor and your enemies and turn the other cheek?

Frank Riley
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:31 AM
Please do not attack this person, we are after Bush, this is a great example why Bush won, many Americans are just confused and it shows. You can not blame Americans for being so stupid, it is normal in this country and I see it everyday. Bush is stupid so stupid people just agree with his stupid thought that means nothing, Bush can not even finish a statement, he can not get the words out. Lets face it Bush is about the most ignorant person we have ever had leading this country and all I can say is Holly Shit and that comes from the second chapter in the King Riley Book of Modern Blunder.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 02:38 AM
If when you first said turn the other cheek you meant from the passage to turn the other cheek to be hit also why didn't you say that when I said that turning the other cheek in the essence you said meant ignoring it?

You are very inconsistant, you argue your point and then you decide to change your point. So which is it? Turning the other cheek to be slapped also, or turning your cheek and ignoring it?



That is what I said, to deal with it in the proper way, this is the proper way, to not let it get to you and to not fight back or be violent about it, but instead forgive the person. NOT IGNORE IT!! Geez.

First of all, you interpreted what I said to mean ignore it. I never said the word "ignore". I just said, turn the other cheek. Secondly, ignoring something is to let it go and not take revenge. You can ignore something and forgive them also. You can also ignore the first slap and turn the cheek to let them slap you again and ignore that and forgive them.

I think you're grasping for straws in order to be right on this issue. :lol:

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 03:04 AM
:rolleyes: ..... Turning the other cheek when you originally said it was not linked to any bible passage therefore it did mean to ignore it. And when I did interprete it to Ignore you started arguing that you were correct, you never said it didn't mean to ignore. Maybe you should be more clear. And Ignoring does not mean forgiving, fogiving means forgiving. Ignoring is pretending it never happened. Forgiving means to actually forgive them for what they have done, which would mean you would have to admit it happened.

Huh???!! When did I say it was NOT linked to any bible passage? I said look at any of the four gospels and you will find it. You said you couldn't find it and I said look up Matthew 5:39. You quoted a Bible passage that was in modern english and you kept saying that it didn't say "turn the other cheek". I then informed you of where the phrase "turn the other cheek" came from, i.e. the King James version which is not in modern english. I never said anything about ignore...you did to support your argument. I thought I was clear, but maybe you need some reading comprehension lessons. You interpreted what I said to mean ignore the slap just because I said turn the other cheek, which was in fact the correct phrase. A person can ignore something done to them and forgive the person at the same time. Ignoring can be interpreted to mean not take any RETALIATORY action, but you turned it into not taking any action, including forgiveness. I just took it for granted that you knew the Bible and the concept of Christianity, i.e. love AND forgiveness. Therefore, I did not feel the need to expressly state that forgiveness was included, even though that passage does not say anything about forgiveness. I figured it was a given. I guess, in your case I was wrong.

And no Im not graspinh at straws, you are being stupid and not being clear on what you mean and then condradicting yourself.

You are so stupid :lol:
I think you're lying and trying to show that you know what you are talking about by talking in circles, but it only shows how ignorant you are when it comes to Christianity and the Bible. :lol:

Berlin_Calling
Nov 4th, 2004, 03:09 AM
Going back to answering the original question of this thread...I feel happy and relieved! GO BUSH!

Martian Jeza
Nov 4th, 2004, 03:17 AM
I am so happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm proud to support our President fior 4 MORE YEARS!!!!

I'm glad the American people chose wisely, Kerry would have cared more about the feelings of European leaders than the safety of our country!!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Volcana
Nov 4th, 2004, 03:25 AM
Like it's going to take 25 years to correct all the damage Bush has done and will do. Possibly 50, depending on the age of his Supreme Court appointments.

Oh wiat, you asked how I felt.

Like shit. But that's democracy for you. I still feel a lot of vote threft went on withthe Diebold voting machines. But Kerry never got even 55% of the population behind him a t any point inthe campaign. Like Gore in 2000, you have to lay at least some of this result at the feet of the Democratic candidate.

Get ready for an America where citizens have no legal recourse against corporations, and the water, air and food supply are more contaminated. However, there will be more taxpayer money used to fund the activities of particular religions.

The world won't come to an end. Unless Bush IS the Anti-Christ.

njguido11
Nov 4th, 2004, 03:25 AM
I was making a point at another site about how the 2004 election went and how the West Coast and upper Eastern Coast voted for Kerry and how the Heart Land of the USA voted for Bush. Truth is the USA is very divided. I actual made many responses basically saying that educated people that speak correct English voted for Kerry and that those with speach problems voted for Bush. This is my last response and I have brought it here so you may comment and we can get this all out in the open. I am sure many European people have a thought and response. If you did not like the last two years get ready for 4 more years just like it. I am from California a State that voted for Kerry all the way. This is your chance to let it all out so go for it!


Kerry is the better man and we all can see that. Kerry is a real war vet, Kerry has a much better education, Kerry has better ideas, Kerry won all the debates and to be honest Bush is screwing up the USA.

I have been across the USA many times and I have lived in many States, I know exactly what I am talking about. The South is the South and it is still full of slow talking ignorant white people that know nothing about Europe and they also hate blacks very much down there, racism is very strong in the South and it in no wonder they want to kill more Arabs in the South.

First word G.W. Bush said when he had won and gave a speach, he said Yall, that is both poor grammer and incorrect words that mean nothing, he should have said "thank you everyone for coming to day", instead he said, "thankYall for comin", he does not speak english, he is stupid and is the worst person we could have in office. But to be honest the poor english he used is how the mid west and south speaks.

My point exactly is that in general most of the educational power and ability is associated with States that voted for Kerry.

The best thing about all this is that now Bush can continue killing Arabs and when it is all done it will all be his fault. In fact it can only get worse at this point and it will. By the way for all the Arabs you better learn how to be democratic the Republican way and Baptist Christian very fast or Mr. Bush will kill you. That goes for all the people in the world.

One final note, the Germans elected Hitler because they thought he was a great man, how did Hitler turn out. Hitler wanted to correct the world as well, Hitler wanted everyone to be German and Christian. You tell me the difference here? Does Bush wish for all the world to be democratic, Christian, non-gay, Southern, Cowboy? You tell me how this well end?

Kerry is a better man and I hope Kerry runs again because after Bush has further fucked it all up I hope I can vote for Kerry again because I can not support Monkey Boy.


People keep talkin about the division in the country that obviously exists but really look at NJ its 47-53. So obviously in those other states its not complete dominance and likewise the other way around.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:31 AM
:lol: Like I said Im not going to argue, but perhaps next time when you are going to use "King James" old english in a post, perhaps you should write the whole sentence in it.




In all honesty .... noone reading this sentence would go "oh he must be referring to Matther 5:29 (or wateva it was). Anyone reading this would read "turn the other cheek" as Ignoring it.

Meanwhile If you didn't mean Ignore, like I said before why did you not say anything when I said that that is what turning the other cheek means. You decided to for some reason argue your case without clearing that up until you started to laugh at me and then tell me that isn't what you meant ..... ok whatever .... maybe you should mean what you say then, because in the context of that sentence it means Ignore.

If you really meant what you say you meant (which I doubt) any person with a brain would've written:

Check out any one of the four gospels where Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself and if slapped on one cheek, turn your cheek and let him slap the other.

You misinterpreted the bible passage it does not mean what you say. Google has many sites on it which, despite what you say, are all relevent because they are religious sites with sermons on it and information etc etc.

You lost ..... get over it ... I won. :lol: ....... but really was there any competition .... :lol: no
Oh my God, I don't think anyone as stupid as you should live. "Turn the other cheek" is a often used phrase that is abbreviated from the Bible passages of Matthew 5:39 and Luke 6:27-38. Try the following links to see how people use the phrase: http://www.prostar.com/web/amerika/cheek.htm and http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?art_id=22490. Also, you can Google the phrase to see how often the phrase is used without saying *"let him slap you on the other cheek" (* = your paraphrase). Anyone reading my post that you are referring to, who has an ounce of knowledge of the Bible or has just lived for more than 20 years would know exactly what I meant and there would be no need to attach the meaning of ignore to it. Nor would they need to see the whole sentence. More evidence of your ignorance. :rolleyes: Dear heart, I didn't misinterpret the passage. You did and you are further misinterpreting what you are reading on the Google sites. You're the one who lost the argument, but you find it so hard to accept. Further, there really was no argument until you made into one. You had no idea what "turn the other cheek" was or meant until I told you where to find it in the Bible. You wanted to show that I didn't know the Bible by saying you couldn't find it. Then you got embarrassed because it was there. Thereafter, you started a silly argument accusing me of not using the phrase properly, but it was you who had to scramble and argue in circles for the sake of disagreeing with me. Grow up and just admit that you started all of this because you were too proud to admit you were wrong to begin with. :lol:

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:37 AM
Like it's going to take 25 years to correct all the damage Bush has done and will do. Possibly 50, depending on the age of his Supreme Court appointments.

Oh wiat, you asked how I felt.

Like shit. But that's democracy for you. I still feel a lot of vote threft went on withthe Diebold voting machines. But Kerry never got even 55% of the population behind him a t any point inthe campaign. Like Gore in 2000, you have to lay at least some of this result at the feet of the Democratic candidate.

Get ready for an America where citizens have no legal recourse against corporations, and the water, air and food supply are more contaminated. However, there will be more taxpayer money used to fund the activities of particular religions.

The world won't come to an end. Unless Bush IS the Anti-Christ.
I agree totally. However, if you read the Bible you will see that there is one who comes before the Anti-Christ. Maybe Bush is him. Either way it will be a very long time we have to live in hell on earth with many trials and tribulations until the end comes.

JenCpLvr
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:48 AM
I guess God really does love a fool. Oh well we will survive no matter how hard the bush no brainers try to drive us into hell with their good intentions and no sense.

Funny how spin has allowed people to pick an uninformed, c minus student and cheer leader as the leader of the free world. Scary.

The puppet triumphs or should I say the puppeteers triumph? Once again an actor takes the whitehouse scamming the american public.

Well the public made their choice and I say to hell with you bush backing brainless assholes. I will be waiting to say I told you so.

He is not my president. I do not support him. And I can hardly wait until he is gone.

Kerry waited too late to jumpstart his campaign. He should have been on the attack earlier and harder.

I give the republicans one point: they know how to run a campaign. They took a draft doging cheerleader and convinced the majority of the public he was tougher than an experienced war hero.

The control the house, the senate and the whitehouse so they have no one to blame or use as a scapegoat when the country goes to hell. Of course they will probably blame gays and minorities. watch and see.
LoL.. your tennis posts are about as ignorant as your non-tennis posts.. I can tell you and I would never get along. :lol: :lol:

Understand that I didn't like the demoralizing President Clinton, but I certainly never said "He is not my president". You are foolish and apparently don't look at the facts of each party. Quit following stereotypes and choose the substance!!!! :rolleyes:

JenCpLvr
Nov 4th, 2004, 04:56 AM
Please do not attack this person, we are after Bush, this is a great example why Bush won, many Americans are just confused and it shows. You can not blame Americans for being so stupid, it is normal in this country and I see it everyday. Bush is stupid so stupid people just agree with his stupid thought that means nothing, Bush can not even finish a statement, he can not get the words out. Lets face it Bush is about the most ignorant person we have ever had leading this country and all I can say is Holly Shit and that comes from the second chapter in the King Riley Book of Modern Blunder.
Your commonality with Hitler is asinine. I voted for Bush, not because I thought he was great, but because he is the lesser of two evils..

Bush supports civil unions for gays, he's support the seperation of church and state, he allows people to believe as they want. It's ignorant flaming liberalists like yourself who want to throw up a smoke-screen as to why it's not acceptable for a president to hold his own traditional values and promote them in his presidency. He is president not only to make decisions, but to represent a majority of this country.. If this weren't so, it would have been acceptable to the US and the rest of the world for Clinton to recieve "favors" from his intern.. People look up to the commander-in-chief.. It makes no sense to bash a man because he shares with the rest of the world what he believes.. You can call this what you will, but its nothing more than any person would do if faced with the same situation. The war is an attack on terror, not an attack on the Muslim state.

AjdeNate!
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:18 AM
http://iskon.hr/2004/11/03/0354007.17.jpg

Justeenium
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:21 AM
notice Cybelle and turt didn't respond to my post after I used facts. :rolleyes:

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:23 AM
:lol: ....... Those sites have the phrase turn the other cheek yes but they also have the scripture the quotes :lol: You are so deluded. Turn the other cheek means to ignore. In the passage it means something different. :lol:
In your original post when you said it it was used in a context meaning ignore .... you may not have meant it that way but it was. You cannot use that phrase which is commonly used as ignore, without having the bible reference in it showing that you are talking about the turn the other cheek.
And I wasn't intending to show you didn't know the bible at all :lol: can you say assumption :lol: I was merely saying that Jesus never said to Ignore anyone.

You lost the battle when you tried to argue it meant ignore and then halfway through said "I never said it meant ignore .... YOU SAID THAT!!" :lol: :lol:

I'm done.
You're an idiot and you need to grow up. I guess I should have said, anyone over the age of 22 should be familiar with the phrase. :rolleyes: Since when is the phrase "turn the other cheek" commonly used as ignore? :lol: Oh my God. You really need to quit while you're ahead, which was way back when you found the verse in the Bible. I never said Jesus said to ignore anyone. He said to let the action go, i.e. be PASSIVE!!! and do not retaliate. :rolleyes: Good God!! I never said it meant ignore. In response to your argument, I said ignoring the action does not mean that you do not forgive the person. Please show where I said the passage meant "ignore", liar. You are done, but not as you mean it, but done for, as in you lost the argument. BTW, I'm 43, and who is Tommy and Chucky?

AjdeNate!
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:25 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/images/143506/19_21_110304_bushap.jpg
Is that from Madame Tussaud's? ;)

tennispro105
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:29 AM
Go Bush!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Justeenium
Nov 4th, 2004, 05:30 AM
the bush daughters are way hotter than horseface's offspring. that's always a telltale sign that Bush would win.

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 06:38 PM
Quit following stereotypes and choose the substance!!!! :rolleyes:
:lol: Look who's talking. :lol:

DeDe4925
Nov 4th, 2004, 06:44 PM
:lol: Dont worry "dede" ........ I won't point out that even though you didn't say it meant Ignore you didn't say it didn't mean ignore which probably would've been wise considering that is what I was talking about :lol: ........

In the words of a great man .... Dede you are "as dumb as a fucking brick" :lol: ..... thanx for the quote Cheese man ;) :lol: :lol:

:haha:

So, you're point is that because I didn't say it didn't mean ignore, I did mean that it meant ignore even though I didn't say it meant ignore. Correct?? :lol: Which was wise because that is what you were talking about when you said it didn't mean ignore, even though I didn't say it meant ignore? :lol:

Shall I thank you or Cheeseman for clearing that up. Probably Cheeseman, considering the fact that you had to look up the phrase "turn the other cheek" on Google. :rolleyes:

lizchris
Nov 4th, 2004, 07:59 PM
the bush daughters are way hotter than horseface's offspring. that's always a telltale sign that Bush would win.

There is no reason to attack a candidate's kids.

You sound like the stupid fucks that attacked Chelsea Clinton's looks back in 1992 when she was 12 years old.

tobe
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:16 PM
the bush daughters are way hotter than horseface's offspring. that's always a telltale sign that Bush would win.

:tape: "YEAH, let us vote for Bush! He doesn't achieve anything but terror but his daughters are hot" ....That shows again how clever u bush supporters are

Tennis Fool
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Bush's daughters= Paris Hilton-wannabes.
Clinton's daughter=24, Oxford educated and making $100,000 as a law-firm consultant.

Justeenium
Nov 4th, 2004, 08:28 PM
There is no reason to attack a candidate's kids.

You sound like the stupid fucks that attacked Chelsea Clinton's looks back in 1992 when she was 12 years old.what are you talking about, Chelsea Clinton's cute.

jacobruiz
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:15 PM
what are you talking about, Chelsea Clinton's cute.
I'll bet you're a fan of Rush Limbaud, the drug addict. He said, during Clinton's presidency, that "Chelsea was the ugliest child in the White House since Amy Carter". (Another Democrat's daughter.) His followers are the same ones babbling about moral values.

lizchris
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:18 PM
what are you talking about, Chelsea Clinton's cute.

I am talking about your comments on Alexandra and Vanessa Kerry.:rolleyes:

lizchris
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:24 PM
I'll bet you're a fan of Rush Limbaud, the drug addict. He said, during Clinton's presidency, that "Chelsea was the ugliest child in the White House since Amy Carter". (Another Democrat's daughter.) His followers are the same ones babbling about moral values.

I heard he said something to that effect.:fiery:

That's great coming from a fat drug addicted fcuk who is rumored to be impotent and who never had any children of his own (though he was married three times and is rumored to be ready for a fourth). But he isn't the only one; another conservative loudmouth named Curtis Sliwa (who is a radio talk show host in NYC) said that Chelsea looked like she was hit with a bag of nickels:fiery: . And Sen John McCain (who is a Republican) said that Chelsea could be the White House dog.:fiery: :fiery:

jacobruiz
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:26 PM
Kerry's blonde daughter is a med student planning to become a doctor; I'm not sure about the other but I think she is a graduate student.

Bacardi
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:35 PM
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler/shirts1-sameshit.jpg

jacobruiz
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:37 PM
I heard he said something to that effect.:fiery:

That's great coming from a fat drug addicted fcuk who is rumored to be impotent and who never had any children of his own (though he was married three times and is rumored to be ready for a fourth). But he isn't the only one; another conservative loudmouth named Curtis Sliwa (who is a radio talk show host in NYC) said that Chelsea looked like she was hit with a bag of nickels:fiery: . And Sen John McCain (who is a Republican) said that Chelsea could be the White House dog.:fiery: :fiery:
What is it with Republicans insulting the looks of the children of Democrats? I mean, how low can you stoop? And strange, I never heard any critcism of this from other Republicans.

If only it was the worst thing they did.

lizchris
Nov 4th, 2004, 09:45 PM
What is it with Republicans insulting the looks of the children of Democrats? I mean, how low can you stoop? And strange, I never heard any critcism of this from other Republicans.

If only it was the worst thing they did.

I also never heard them repudiate what their fellow Republicans said either.

Justeenium
Nov 4th, 2004, 10:23 PM
I am talking about your comments on Alexandra and Vanessa Kerry.:rolleyes:
all I said was that the Bush supporters were way hotter. I didn't say the Kerrys were ugly.

Put the crackpipe down.

tfannis
Nov 4th, 2004, 10:38 PM
I feel horrible...I lost faith in mankind I must say...I can not understand, I really can not understand, how a sane person can vote for Bush. I try, but I can't.
Furthermore I really feel for the Kerry voters...in the papers today I saw these pics of Kerry supporters who looked really very sad and disappointed and I felt sorry, they deserve so much better.

The most intrigueing and frightening side of it all, to me, is how America seems to be ruled by religion. I always thought religion would disappear, because it's so out of date...science has moved past it. Yet, the so called free world will be lead another four years by a christian fundamentalist, chosen by the people. A leader who says he does what he does with the help of God. Someone who can not separate state and religion.
I've read arguments between democrats and republicans on this board about whether God is on his side and whether his acts are moral and whether he does what the bible says. Arguments in which both parties come up with verses and chapters of the bible, trying to weaken eachother's reasoning. I find that very sickening. It's as if many Americans can't look past Christianity.
I don't say a leader can't be religious, but I think it's very wrong his policy is linked to religion in any way. If the prime minister of my country would ever use the word God (as in God bless, or with the help of God) I'd loose all respect for his leadership. Yet in America many let their vote depend on how devouted the candidate is. Whatever horrible things he did, how much he's tearing the world apart, how incompetent this man is..as long he says gay marriage is wrong and abortion is murder, the man deserves their vote, because only morals count.
With Bush another four years in office, America has become a bastion of Christianity and the antipole of the islamitic fundamentalism in the Arabic world. I bet that if Bush says his war in Iraq is a crusade, many Americans applaude.

lizchris
Nov 4th, 2004, 11:21 PM
all I said was that the Bush supporters were way hotter. I didn't say the Kerrys were ugly.

Put the crackpipe down.

I think you are the one who needs to put the crack pipe down because you were the one who posted the message below.

the bush daughters are way hotter than horseface's offspring. that's always a telltale sign that Bush would win.

But I am the one on drugs?

Mariangelina
Nov 5th, 2004, 12:07 AM
All I can say is I'm kinda pissed at Nader right now. :lol:

Well, I don't live there, and Bush won fair and square- but this is gonna have a really shitty impact on the next four years, believe me. It is going to build global anti-American sentiment throughout the globe, probably increase terrorism- terrorism has gone on for millennia, surely Bush doesn't think he can obliterate it in half a decade- not to mention the lives of poor, female, gay, or immigrant Americans aren't going to improve by leaps and bounds. I have never felt more relieved to be Canadian. Fundamentalism and desire for money won again. What can I say?

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 12:10 AM
Nader wasn't even on the ticket in Virginia. It was two Micheal guys or something like that. No Nader on the ticket here.

Rafe306
Nov 5th, 2004, 12:31 AM
Fuck Bush..I hope he gets assasinated

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 01:57 AM
Fuck Bush..I hope he gets assasinated
of course a very intelligent comment.

Maybe you are 10 years old and should be in bed,

maybe you are just an idiot.

Leaving alone all moral consideration on wanting someone assassinated, if Bush is killed then Dick Cheney will be the president, can your liberal little brain understand that that would mean?

Believe me, if you think Bush is tough you haven't seen anything, Bush would look leftish compared to Cheney,

idiot.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:14 AM
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler/shirts1-sameshit.jpg
:worship: :worship: :worship:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:18 AM
Fuck Bush..I hope he gets assasinated

Rafe, just hope that whoever gets him, has an open shot at Cheney and gets them the same day.... Otherwise we'll be royally fuct. Althou I'm not sure Cheney's fragile heart condition could survive being Commander and Cheif for long.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:19 AM
of course a very intelligent comment.

Maybe you are 10 years old and should be in bed,

maybe you are just an idiot.

Leaving alone all moral consideration on wanting someone assassinated, if Bush is killed then Dick Cheney will be the president, can your liberal little brain understand that that would mean?

Believe me, if you think Bush is tough you haven't seen anything, Bush would look leftish compared to Cheney,

idiot.
Maybe upon hearing Bush got assassinated, Cheney will have a fatal heart attack from the shock. :hehehe: One can only hope. :p

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:20 AM
Maybe upon hearing Bush got assassinated, Cheney will have a fatal heart attack from the shock. :hehehe: One can only hope. :p

Anyone know how the impeachment process works. I still think there are more of us that hate the damn bastard than like him. We should still be able to do something about that Bible Thumping Hypocrite Hitler Bush.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:22 AM
Anyone know how the impeachment process works. I still think there are more of us that hate the damn bastard than like him. We should still be able to do something about that Bible Thumping Hypocrite Hitler Bush.
I hope people know that all that Bible thumping is a ruse and that he's really an evil, satan worshiping, power hungry, megolomanic, dictator.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:24 AM
DeDe if this isn't proof positive enough for them, nothing is. Hell it's even got a quote from their very own bible telling them to beware of men like Bush. But trust me, I think at this point they are too far gone. What's sad is this blind following of Bush just confirms for me the fact that a lot of people, who might otherwise be good, are going to be blindly following the Anti-Christ when he does come to earth.

"God told me to strike Al-Queda, and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East" George W. Bush

"I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. I am doing the Lord's work. God is with us." Adolf Hitler


"The Prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not neither have I commanded them, niether spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deciet of their own heart" Jeremiah 14:14

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:34 AM
DeDe if this isn't proof positive enough for them, nothing is. Hell it's even got a quote from their very own bible telling them to beware of men like Bush. But trust me, I think at this point they are too far gone. What's sad is this blind following of Bush just confirms for me the fact that a lot of people, who might otherwise be good, are going to be blindly following the Anti-Christ when he does come to earth.


WHEN he comes...hell, he's already here and living in the White House. But, God is still in control, so I'm not worried. Everything has to happen according to His plan. Those that have ears shall hear and those that have eyes shall see, and the mark of the beast shall be on the follower's heads.

Tennis Fool
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:37 AM
Anyone know how the impeachment process works.
Ask Bill Clinton :tape:

The Red Reps couldn't wait four more years after he was reelected :rolleyes:

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:40 AM
WHEN he comes...hell, he's already here and living in the White House. But, God is still in control, so I'm not worried. Everything has to happen according to His plan. Those that have ears shall hear and those that have eyes shall see, and the mark of the beast shall be on their heads.

Now come on. You can't use religion to support your position while bashing Bush and the republicans for being religious as well. :retard:

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:41 AM
WHEN he comes...hell, he's already here and living in the White House. But, God is still in control, so I'm not worried. Everything has to happen according to His plan. Those that have ears shall hear and those that have eyes shall see, and the mark of the beast shall be on their heads.

I don't think Bush is the Anti-Christ. He's not united the world like the Choosen one is supposed to. He's also too stupid to be the Anti-Christ. He's the one they speak of in the bible that comes just before the Anti-Christ, the one that brings death and destruction to the world. The Anti-Christ will rule with Peace and then boom sudden destruction. All we've seen from Bush in office has been destruction, no peace. He preaches peace, but can't quite make do on it. Bush is like the red-headed step child of the devil, not quite the AntiChrist, but it's Satan's first try, he's got another one to get it right.

Bush is however gearing up the government for the mark of the beast. What i don't know, is how most Christians or anyone who's read the bible is going to accept the mark of the beast '666'. I mean we've been warned about it. Unless there is that thing I read about where they are trying to start to mark people with a under the skin chip implant so they know where you are at all times. Those could easily have the number 666 and nobody would know.

The only good thing about this is, the end has to be near. And those of us not blind and with a good heart at least know where we will be going. It's the so called "Bible Thumping Christians" who support murders like Bush that I cannot see getting in, but I can see a fiery sea of brimstone for them. I honestly, don't know how that man sleeps at night after seeing the images from outside US media sorces. Do they not understand the innocent lives of children that man has ruined. Children that have done nothing to us, or our country. But they will never understand. Because they have their guns, and their bibles, and as long as they can claim they are killing to make people see God's way, it's all OK. Althou, they forget the basic rules of Christianity "Thou Shault Not Kill" "Love thy Neighbor", etc.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:43 AM
Now come on. You can't use religion to support your position while bashing Bush and the republicans for being religious as well. :retard:

Read your bible, we can make our own stance. The anti-Christ and his followers will ultimately weed out the good Christians and the Bad ones. It's not my word, it's the word of God. What I don't get is how they support a killer in office? A man that wants Nuclear weapons, do you understand the only other person on earth that condones making and having them is the Dictator of North Korea!?!

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:43 AM
Now come on. You can't use religion to support your position while bashing Bush and the republicans for being religious as well. :retard:
Sense has no place in this conversation ;)

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:49 AM
Now come on. You can't use religion to support your position while bashing Bush and the republicans for being religious as well. :retard:
I'm not using religion, I'm using the Bible and it's prophesies. I'm calling the man out for what he is and his followers.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:51 AM
Sense has no place in this conversation ;)

Hey Becca if you want to say we're senseless, then every person that reads the bible or has tried to interpret it is senseless as well.

I wasn't saying things, I was simply stating what it says. Go pick it up and try reading it. I don't care if you're a bible thumper or what, there is no denying that it says basic everyday childish understanding like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and also another one "Sword and famine shall not be in this land. By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed".

It's everyday basic understanding. If these people want to vote for Bush based on Christian beliefs, why can't I question them on what their own Bible says?

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:51 AM
I'm not using religion, I'm using the Bible and it's prophesies. I'm calling the man out for what he is and his followers.

:cuckoo:

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:52 AM
I'm not using religion, I'm using the Bible and it's prophesies. I'm calling the man out for what he is and his followers.
This is sort of like saying "I wasn't using the peanut butter! I was just taking some out of the jar and putting it on my bread!"

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:52 AM
Sense has no place in this conversation ;)

I guess you're right :tape: :lol: :)

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:53 AM
Hey Becca if you want to say we're senseless, then every person that reads the bible or has tried to interpret it is senseless as well.

I wasn't saying things, I was simply stating what it says. Go pick it up and try reading it. I don't care if you're a bible thumper or what, there is no denying that it says basic everyday childish understanding like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and also another one "Sword and famine shall not be in this land. By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed".

It's everyday basic understanding. If these people want to vote for Bush based on Christian beliefs, why can't I question them on what their own Bible says?

Just promise me that you aren't going to say "I'm not using religion, I'm using the bible!" next.

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:54 AM
This is sort of like saying "I wasn't using the peanut butter! I was just taking some out of the jar and putting it on my bread!"

No it's like saying, "I didn't use the gun to kill him. I used the bullets." :o

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:56 AM
No it's like saying, "I didn't use the gun to kill him. I used the bullets." :o
That works too ;) Analogy has never been my strong point.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:57 AM
I don't think Bush is the Anti-Christ. He's not united the world like the Choosen one is supposed to. He's also too stupid to be the Anti-Christ. He's the one they speak of in the bible that comes just before the Anti-Christ, the one that brings death and destruction to the world. The Anti-Christ will rule with Peace and then boom sudden destruction. All we've seen from Bush in office has been destruction, no peace. He preaches peace, but can't quite make do on it. Bush is like the red-headed step child of the devil, not quite the AntiChrist, but it's Satan's first try, he's got another one to get it right.

Bush is however gearing up the government for the mark of the beast. What i don't know, is how most Christians or anyone who's read the bible is going to accept the mark of the beast '666'. I mean we've been warned about it. Unless there is that thing I read about where they are trying to start to mark people with a under the skin chip implant so they know where you are at all times. Those could easily have the number 666 and nobody would know.

The only good thing about this is, the end has to be near. And those of us not blind and with a good heart at least know where we will be going. It's the so called "Bible Thumping Christians" who support murders like Bush that I cannot see getting in, but I can see a fiery sea of brimstone for them. I honestly, don't know how that man sleeps at night after seeing the images from outside US media sorces. Do they not understand the innocent lives of children that man has ruined. Children that have done nothing to us, or our country. But they will never understand. Because they have their guns, and their bibles, and as long as they can claim they are killing to make people see God's way, it's all OK. Althou, they forget the basic rules of Christianity "Thou Shault Not Kill" "Love thy Neighbor", etc.
You're right with most of what you said, but the prophesies say that the antichrist will not be liked by most of the world, if he would be how will Armegddon(sp?) come about? Also, he doesn't need to be smart, he has people behind him who are smart. Also, if he's not the antichrist how does someone as dumb as Bush get where he is? Everything has been handed to him on a silver platter. Let me turn you on to this site I found. Check it out and tell me what you think. http://66.135.33.70/bushisantichrist.com/

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:58 AM
Ok this Sally Struthers poser is hilarious. Do you realise the person you are posing as doesn't even condone supporting George W Bush.

And I wasn't using Religion, I was simply quoting it, but with you two, you can't understand anything but basic everyday retoric.

Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical people who call themselves Christians bash gays? They support a war? And in turn, support anyone who doesn't believe the way they do?

My god, apparently this conversation with the two of you is about as deep as a shallow mud puddle. You couldn't understand anything if it came up and bit you on the ass.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:01 AM
Hey Becca if you want to say we're senseless, then every person that reads the bible or has tried to interpret it is senseless as well.

I wasn't saying things, I was simply stating what it says. Go pick it up and try reading it. I don't care if you're a bible thumper or what, there is no denying that it says basic everyday childish understanding like "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and also another one "Sword and famine shall not be in this land. By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed".

It's everyday basic understanding. If these people want to vote for Bush based on Christian beliefs, why can't I question them on what their own Bible says?
:worship: :worship:

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:02 AM
DeDe that site might be a little biased if you want to know more about the actual coming of the Anti-Christ read Revelation 13. It says "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not writtenin the book of life of hte Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" That's Revelation 13:8

Bush isn't liked by the world, not all of it. He's more like despised by it. I think the true Anti-Christ will have more supporters. But that's just my opinion on it.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:05 AM
This is sort of like saying "I wasn't using the peanut butter! I was just taking some out of the jar and putting it on my bread!"
:lol: Obviously you don't understand the difference between religion and the Bible. Religion is how you do something. Christianity is not a religion, it's a faith.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:08 AM
:lol: Obviously you don't understand the difference between religion and the Bible. Religion is how you do something. Christianity is not a religion, it's a faith.
Within context, what you are doing is no different than what those you criticize do ;)

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:09 AM
Ok this Sally Struthers poser is hilarious. Do you realise the person you are posing as doesn't even condone supporting George W Bush.

And I wasn't using Religion, I was simply quoting it, but with you two, you can't understand anything but basic everyday retoric.

Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical people who call themselves Christians bash gays? They support a war? And in turn, support anyone who doesn't believe the way they do?

My god, apparently this conversation with the two of you is about as deep as a shallow mud puddle. You couldn't understand anything if it came up and bit you on the ass.
Oh, so this is the Christian bashing thread! You should have told me, I would have dressed up.

Anyways, if you think that I need to bow to your oh so superior intellect and can't understand you, then perhaps you should stop wasting your time on little old me ;)

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:10 AM
Ok this Sally Struthers poser is hilarious. Do you realise the person you are posing as doesn't even condone supporting George W Bush.

And I wasn't using Religion, I was simply quoting it, but with you two, you can't understand anything but basic everyday retoric.

Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical people who call themselves Christians bash gays? They support a war? And in turn, support anyone who doesn't believe the way they do?

My god, apparently this conversation with the two of you is about as deep as a shallow mud puddle. You couldn't understand anything if it came up and bit you on the ass.

A name is a name..

Anyway I don't believe in or condone bashing of anyone. I'm quite socially liberal. Do what the hell you want as long as you don't bother me :lol:. Gay rights, abortion, racial equality ... I'm all for that :yeah:

You are right about this conversation though. You have gone so far off the deep end that nothing you say makes any sense to anyone who is sane! Let's see... you want to:

blow up the white house
assassinate bush
assassinate cheney
wish bad things on this country and the citizens who did not vote the way you wanted
use the bible and its verses to support your feelings that bush is the "pre" antichrist, while bashing conservatives for being over religious

You are filled with so much rage and anger that every ounce of rationality in you has been removed!

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:12 AM
Within context, what you are doing is no different than what those you criticize do ;)
I'm not advocating war and the murder of women and children as collateral damage, and I didn't vote for the one who does. I'm just pointing out what the Bible says what Christianity is supposed to stand for, peace, love, passivity and forgiveness. I haven't seen Bush perform any of those tenets.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:15 AM
Clearly you cannot understand what we're saying. In order to open someones eyes the best way to do that is to find out, and research what they put their faith in, then ask them why they believe that way. After that you bring up the discrepencies in what they believe and ask them to explain them. It's basic communication. However I don't understand you to want to get into that, nor do I expect some poser that thinks they are Sally Struthers to.

I studied religion in college for a semester. And it has always perplexed me, as it has a lot of other people, how Christians believe a faith that they most of the time cannot follow effectively.

I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist.... and I've had a lot of spare time to read up on stuff like religion, probably more time than you've read on any page of it.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:16 AM
Yes Bacardi, you are clearly more educated than me. I don't know why I bother to discuss things with somebody who is so clearly on a totally different level.

Good night ;)

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:20 AM
I don't know why I bother to discuss things with somebody who is so clearly on a totally different level.

Good night ;)

one more than one level :tape: :lol:

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:20 AM
use the bible and its verses to support your feelings that bush is the antichrist, while bashing conservatives for being over religious

You are filled with so much rage and anger that every ounce of rationality in you has been removed!


Actually if you bothered to take the time to READ you'd clearly see I wasn't comparing Bush to the Anti-Christ. Hell I wouldn't give him that much credit. He's the warm up to it, the one that comes bearing the sword so that people may live and die by the sword. He's not clever, nor well versed or liked enough to be the Anti-Christ.

Conservatives bring it upon themselves, they believe in peace and love, yet the man in office they are supporting has shown none of that. So I want to hear their new excuse for why the support him.

Wanna call me bitter, fine, what you'll find is the US is filled with at least 50% or just under that, of people JUST LIKE ME, who dislike the man JUST AS MUCH, even some dislike him a little more. Sorry to bust your Bush bubble, the world isn't perfect. He sure as hell will never unite this entire country. :wavey:

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:26 AM
Actually if you bothered to take the time to READ you'd clearly see I wasn't comparing Bush to the Anti-Christ. Hell I wouldn't give him that much credit. He's the warm up to it, the one that comes bearing the sword so that people may live and die by the sword. He's not clever, nor well versed or liked enough to be the Anti-Christ.

Conservatives bring it upon themselves, they believe in peace and love, yet the man in office they are supporting has shown none of that. So I want to hear their new excuse for why the support him.

Wanna call me bitter, fine, what you'll find is the US is filled with at least 50% or just under that, of people JUST LIKE ME, who dislike the man JUST AS MUCH, even some dislike him a little more. Sorry to bust your Bush bubble, the world isn't perfect. He sure as hell will never unite this entire country. :wavey:

I'm sorry you're right about the anitchrist bit. I'll correct it. You want to know what I support Bush? I will tell you. I support Bush because it's in my best interests financially. It may be a shallow, self-centered reason but it's the truth.

jelena4me
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:35 AM
Hitler was in Germans financial best interest too

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:43 AM
DeDe that site might be a little biased if you want to know more about the actual coming of the Anti-Christ read Revelation 13. It says "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not writtenin the book of life of hte Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" That's Revelation 13:8

Bush isn't liked by the world, not all of it. He's more like despised by it. I think the true Anti-Christ will have more supporters. But that's just my opinion on it.
for someone that criticizes Bush for being religious you seem to know the bible quite well.

I wonder if you ever read the bullshit you write and realize how stupid it sounds (or reads).

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:44 AM
But Sally can't you begin to see why the rest of the world hates him? Or have you only been tuned into the US Media. Please take a look at the pictures of children that have been murdered due to this war. This needless war. How did the war benefit any of us financially? It didn't. It's cost us, more in the terms of human life than in money. Something that people should value more than money to begin with, LIFE.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:44 AM
Hitler was in Germans financial best interest too
among all the ignorance showed in this thread, this post stands by itself.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:47 AM
for someone that criticizes Bush for being religious you seem to know the bible quite well.

I wonder if you ever read the bullshit you write and realize how stupid it sounds (or reads).

I don't have a right to study something? I've also read the Satanic Bible as well, but I'm not an atheist. It's basic knowledge you should read as much as you can, unless you are blinded, and understand as much about the world as humanly possible. The ignorant after all, are led by the masses. :o

Fingon, I was just calling Bush and his Supporters out on their own book!

Did you know that the Anti-Christ for example is going to be well versed in the bible, in fact he'll be able to quote you quotes off the top of his head. He's a thing of Satan. The Bible ain't just for Christians! :wavey:

LucasArg
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:47 AM
for someone that criticizes Bush for being religious you seem to know the bible quite well.

I wonder if you ever read the bullshit you write and realize how stupid it sounds (or reads).What is wrong with you Fingon?
What are you up to?
I know you are inteligent enough and I know you don't support Bush either, even knowing Reagan is one of your favorites:o

But the religion thing in Bush is OVERreacted pleaseeee, I really find very ODD to be a christian and a murderer at the same time.

How can he even pronounce the word GOD:o :o :o

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:48 AM
But Sally can't you begin to see why the rest of the world hates him? Or have you only been tuned into the US Media. Please take a look at the pictures of children that have been murdered due to this war. This needless war. How did the war benefit any of us financially? It didn't. It's cost us, more in the terms of human life than in money. Something that people should value more than money to begin with, LIFE.
let me ask you a question, seeing that you are so concerned by iraqi children (I am as well, but I am not an hypocrite).

You obviously hate Bush but you like Clinton, right? you criticize Bush for attacking Iraq but it was alright for Clinton (and the Europeans that didn't want their oil contrats revised) to bomb Yugoslavia, I guess Serbian kids are not that important, or a cruise missile is more humanitarian if you like the president that order to launch it?

FYI, the bombing of Serbia was NOT approved by the UN.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:49 AM
Other than studying it, I was also raised up in the bullshit for the first 15 years of my life too. I have never seen such hypocracy than what I saw in the Christian faith. It's not changed since 10 years ago, same old shit! Some people don't get a chance to open their eyes, some of us, dare to be different and question the system. Ever wonder how the USA came into existance to begin with? If people like the Bush supporters were still in charge, we'd be under the rule of the Queen of England right now! Change, it is so scary for most people.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:51 AM
What is wrong with you Fingon? What are you up to? I know you are inteligent enough and I know you don't support Bush either, even knowing Reagan is one of your favorites:o
what's wrong with me? I am sick of hypocrissy, and it has nothing to do with who I support or not. Have you been reading all the bullshit that Bacardi has been spreading all over the place?

Don't they realize that with their irrational rants make their arguments look silly and weaken them? Really, I can't think of a better supporter of Bush than Bacardi and co. when you attack without using your brains that's what you get, it sounds like a hysterical woman.

And FYI, I am atheist.

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:51 AM
But Sally can't you begin to see why the rest of the world hates him? Or have you only been tuned into the US Media. Please take a look at the pictures of children that have been murdered due to this war. This needless war. How did the war benefit any of us financially? It didn't. It's cost us, more in the terms of human life than in money. Something that people should value more than money to begin with, LIFE.

Of course I can tell why some people don't like him. I wasn't for the war but now that we're there we have to make the best of it. I wish I could feel bad for the children who died there and you may think that I'm a horrible person for saying this but a little kid dying isn't going to affect me personally so I don't really think about it and grieve all day and store up my anger towards the administration over it. I get on with my business. It's unfortunate but it happens.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:52 AM
let me ask you a question, seeing that you are so concerned by iraqi children (I am as well, but I am not an hypocrite).

You obviously hate Bush but you like Clinton, right? you criticize Bush for attacking Iraq but it was alright for Clinton (and the Europeans that didn't want their oil contrats revised) to bomb Yugoslavia, I guess Serbian kids are not that important, or a cruise missile is more humanitarian if you like the president that order to launch it?

FYI, the bombing of Serbia was NOT approved by the UN.

Where did you ever see me support Clinton? You clearly have me mistaken with another poster.

In Yugoslavia in 1998 or 99 I think it was, anyway I do know Clinton was in power and the bombs we used there are the same we're using today in Iraq. They are basically left over waste, less harmful but still powerful from the old Nuke weapons. They've despensed tons of nuclear waste with a half life of 4.5 billion years everywhere we've bombed, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afganistan.

I don't condone any individual who thinks they have the power to go in and tell any other nation what they are doing is wrong. What good does fighting violence with more violence cause?

So trust me, you must have had me mistaken. I disliked Clinton just as much as I do Bush. I however wasn't old enough to vote or try to make a difference when Clinton was in power.

LucasArg
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:52 AM
Hitler was in Germans financial best interest too
The cheapest human resources in history:sad:

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:53 AM
Of course I can tell why some people don't like him. I wasn't for the war but now that we're there we have to make the best of it. I wish I could feel bad for the children who died there and you may think that I'm a horrible person for saying this but a little kid dying isn't going to affect me personally so I don't really think about it and grieve all day and store up my anger towards the administration over it. I get on with my business. It's unfortunate but it happens.

Yes but when it's your and my very own tax dollars that are buying the bombs, and we do have the choice to elect who we do into office. To a point some of the blood is on each of our hands. That saddens me to think, due to my tax dollars and voters choice, people are dying tragic deaths every hour.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:56 AM
Other than studying it, I was also raised up in the bullshit for the first 15 years of my life too. I have never seen such hypocracy than what I saw in the Christian faith. It's not changed since 10 years ago, same old shit! Some people don't get a chance to open their eyes, some of us, dare to be different and question the system. Ever wonder how the USA came into existance to begin with? If people like the Bush supporters were still in charge, we'd be under the rule of the Queen of England right now! Change, it is so scary for most people.
I am an atheist, and I hate religion, it's not simply that I don't believe in it.

And that's why I don't like Bush, but my problem with Kerry is that I don't really know where he stands about terrorism, as simple as that.

My point is not supporting Bush or being against him, it's doing it in a rational way, not with continous rants asking for him to be assassinated, or terrorists to strike the US, I don't care who you support or not, what hurts my intelligence are the irrational rants, and as an atheist, the comments about the antichrist sound totally ridiculous to me, and if somebody has to sink to that level to criticize Bush, it tells me that they don't have a rational way to do that, and believe me, Bush can certainly be criticized without resorting to irrational rants.

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:58 AM
I understand you are an atheist, so that babbling about the Anti-Christ sounds absurd to you. But tell me it hasn't just puzzled you a little that they claim they are Christians and that morals and values pushed them to vote for Bush, yet he's broken the most basic of the foundations of their religion. Don't you ever, even slightly, want to question them about that?

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 06:58 AM
Where did you ever see me support Clinton? You clearly have me mistaken with another poster.

In Yugoslavia in 1998 or 99 I think it was, anyway I do know Clinton was in power and the bombs we used there are the same we're using today in Iraq. They are basically left over waste, less harmful but still powerful from the old Nuke weapons. They've despensed tons of nuclear waste with a half life of 4.5 billion years everywhere we've bombed, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afganistan.

I don't condone any individual who thinks they have the power to go in and tell any other nation what they are doing is wrong. What good does fighting violence with more violence cause?

So trust me, you must have had me mistaken. I disliked Clinton just as much as I do Bush. I however wasn't old enough to vote or try to make a difference when Clinton was in power.
I apologize then, I generalized, because most Bush haters seem to love Clinton, and most people that criticize the war in Iraq because it was illegal supported the bombing of Serbia WITHOUT UN approval (interesting that France and Germany not only approved it, but participated).

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:00 AM
I understand you are an atheist, so that babbling about the Anti-Christ sounds absurd to you. But tell me it hasn't just puzzled you a little that they claim they are Christians and that morals and values pushed them to vote for Bush, yet he's broken the most basic of the foundations of their religion. Don't you ever, even slightly, want to question them about that?
I learned long ago that it's pointless to try to rationalize with religious fanatics (or with fanatics in general). Religions are full of contradictions, not only Christians and logic is not their strong point. It's faith remember?

Bacardi
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:01 AM
The scariest thing about Bush to me is the fact he want's to bring back, redevelopment of Nuclear weapons. It's bad enough since we bombed Iraq and the Serbs that their cancer and deformation rate has increased nearly 600%! Our weapons of murder are bad enough without bringing back Nukes. I mean why does anyone on earth need them? If not for destruction of the entire planet? I'll never understand this business of how a man can preach peace, and yet all he does is kill kill kill.

Not only that, where's he going to do the testing for these new bombs? Because if it's underground, in the water, air, or wherever there is going to be dust waste off them that will in turn harm everyone.

It's not just other people he's killing, why not look at the rate of people who came back from serving in Iraq in 91 and see the birthdefects their children have. :scared:

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:01 AM
Yes but when it's your and my very own tax dollars that are buying the bombs, and we do have the choice to elect who we do into office. To a point some of the blood is on each of our hands. That saddens me to think, due to my tax dollars and voters choice, people are dying tragic deaths every hour.

Wherever you live on this planet you can be sure that some of your tax dollars are going towards something you don't like and probably towards killing someone too.

LucasArg
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:02 AM
And FYI, I am atheist.
I donīt believe that is posible,I think every human being believes in "something"

But what I meant about religion is that Bush (and a lot of protestants and catholics in USA) has a bible in one hand, and a gun in the other.:mad:

Crazy Canuck
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:06 AM
I donīt believe that is posible,I think every human being believes in "something"


I don't understand how you can disbelieve atheism, when a number of people will tell you themselves that they do indeed believe in "nothing" spiritual. I'm not sure why you think you know more about what they believe than they do :confused:

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:07 AM
I donīt believe that is posible,I think every human being believes in "something"

But what I meant about religion is that Bush (and a lot of protestants and catholics in USA) has a bible in one hand, and a gun in the other.:mad:
now you are telling me what I should believe?

I don't believe in god, end of story, no buts, there isn't anything I am so sure in my life, I believe in human beings (although some times I lose my faith), love, understanding, intelligence, not in any kind of god, I could go hours on that but it's not the topic.

And yes, they have the bible in one hand and a gun in the other, don't they all?

read history, even heard of the 30 years war? or the hugonotes in France, or the witch hunts in England? aren't the muslim terrorists deeply religious?

with the possible exception of some oriental religions such as budhism, all religions are the same, they preach pace and love but their followers kill and start wars in the name of god (or however you call it). Really, it should not surprise you.

going to bed now, unfortunately I have to work tomorrow (or today)

LucasArg
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:12 AM
I don't understand how you can disbelieve atheism, when a number of people will tell you themselves that they do indeed believe in "nothing" spiritual. I'm not sure why you think you know more about what they believe than they do :confused:
I just said an opinion, I am not telling anyone what to do and I am not saying I know more about others.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:17 AM
The scariest thing about Bush to me is the fact he want's to bring back, redevelopment of Nuclear weapons. It's bad enough since we bombed Iraq and the Serbs that their cancer and deformation rate has increased nearly 600%! Our weapons of murder are bad enough without bringing back Nukes. I mean why does anyone on earth need them? If not for destruction of the entire planet? I'll never understand this business of how a man can preach peace, and yet all he does is kill kill kill.

Not only that, where's he going to do the testing for these new bombs? Because if it's underground, in the water, air, or wherever there is going to be dust waste off them that will in turn harm everyone.

It's not just other people he's killing, why not look at the rate of people who came back from serving in Iraq in 91 and see the birthdefects their children have. :scared:
before going to bed, Bush is not bringing back nuclear weapons, they never went anywhere, the US still have thousands of nuclear warheads in missiles based on land or submarines and aircrafts.

The B2 used to bomb Iraq can easily carry nuclear bombs instead of conventional ones, and you can bet your ass there are several in the sky carrying them.

What Bush wants to do is to experiment with low yield nuclear weapons designed to penetrate (like the bunker buster) and detonate deep inside hardenned targets.

The nuclear weapons discussions is a whole different thing, you can check fas.org for more info, but certainly it wasn't Bush who started with them, in fact it was a democratic president (Rooselvelt) who started the Manhattan project and it was another democratic president (Truman) who ordered to drop nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was a democratic president (Kennedy) who was in the verge of starting and all out nuclear war with the Soviet Union.

The weapons you refer to used in Serbia are loaded with depleted uranium, not because it's radioactive but because it's heavy and hard and penetrate armours better, and yes, it's wrong and it should be reminded to those who praise France for opposing the war in Iraq when they participated in the bombing of Serbia, for the exact same reasons and with the same exact mandate from the UN (zero).

LucasArg
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:18 AM
And yes, they have the bible in one hand and a gun in the other, don't they all?

read history, even heard of the 30 years war? or the hugonotes in France, or the witch hunts in England? aren't the muslim terrorists deeply religious?

with the possible exception of some oriental religions such as budhism, all religions are the same, they preach pace and love but their followers kill and start wars in the name of god (or however you call it). Really, it should not surprise you.

going to bed now, unfortunately I have to work tomorrow (or today)

So then is it supposed to fine? I donīt think so.

It is not surprising me, it pisses me off, because a monkey killer also tells gay people he wants to ban gay marriages, etc in the name of GOD!:fiery:

Sally Struthers
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:24 AM
Really it could be argued that nuclear weapons and the arms race kept the peace during the cold war from the threat of mutually assured destruction. Now I don't like all the bombs for the simple fact that if there's more of them there's more that can get into the hands of the wrong people that may use them against me and my country. And unfortunately they won't be detered by MAD like the Soviets were. I do think that we should go on with weapons research though as it has applications in other areas of life.

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 07:35 AM
I am an atheist, and I hate religion, it's not simply that I don't believe in it.

And that's why I don't like Bush, but my problem with Kerry is that I don't really know where he stands about terrorism, as simple as that.

My point is not supporting Bush or being against him, it's doing it in a rational way, not with continous rants asking for him to be assassinated, or terrorists to strike the US, I don't care who you support or not, what hurts my intelligence are the irrational rants, and as an atheist, the comments about the antichrist sound totally ridiculous to me, and if somebody has to sink to that level to criticize Bush, it tells me that they don't have a rational way to do that, and believe me, Bush can certainly be criticized without resorting to irrational rants.
As an atheist, do you think you have all the answers? You are no better than the religious right wing who force their views on everyone and criticize those who believe differently. You talk a good game about hypocrisy, but you are the epitome of it. Your rants about hating relgion are just as hysterical as the so-called rants of those of us who are Christians and believe that Bush may be the antichrist. People who truly practice the faith, don't force their beliefs on anyone or judge people who don't believe as they do. People who truly practice the faith merely convey the Word and if someone doesn't want to hear it, a true Christian will walk away. All kidding aside, I do not wish any harm to Bush or anyone else. Nor do I judge those who support him. I pity them, because obviously they don't see the truth. The truth being that this man is a liar, a sadist and a meglomaniac and he has cost this country money, jobs and lives and it's only going to get worse. Thank God, it's only four more years. I'm truly sad about the destruction he will further cause the world.

tfannis
Nov 5th, 2004, 08:33 AM
I donīt believe that is posible,I think every human being believes in "something"Sure that's possible...I don't believe in anything either.

I just said an opinion, I am not telling anyone what to do and I am not saying I know more about others.
Yet you state you think it's impossible that someone doesn't believe in anything. That sounds as if you think you do know more about others.

Funny how the moment I've post this (probably without anyone reading it ;) ), this thread turns into a religious quarrel again.


I feel horrible...I lost faith in mankind I must say...I can not understand, I really can not understand, how a sane person can vote for Bush. I try, but I can't.
Furthermore I really feel for the Kerry voters...in the papers today I saw these pics of Kerry supporters who looked really very sad and disappointed and I felt sorry, they deserve so much better.

The most intrigueing and frightening side of it all, to me, is how America seems to be ruled by religion. I always thought religion would disappear, because it's so out of date...science has moved past it. Yet, the so called free world will be lead another four years by a christian fundamentalist, chosen by the people. A leader who says he does what he does with the help of God. Someone who can not separate state and religion.
I've read arguments between democrats and republicans on this board about whether God is on his side and whether his acts are moral and whether he does what the bible says. Arguments in which both parties come up with verses and chapters of the bible, trying to weaken eachother's reasoning. I find that very sickening. It's as if many Americans can't look past Christianity.
I don't say a leader can't be religious, but I think it's very wrong his policy is linked to religion in any way. If the prime minister of my country would ever use the word God (as in God bless, or with the help of God) I'd loose all respect for his leadership. Yet in America many let their vote depend on how devouted the candidate is. Whatever horrible things he did, how much he's tearing the world apart, how incompetent this man is..as long he says gay marriage is wrong and abortion is murder, the man deserves their vote, because only morals count.
With Bush another four years in office, America has become a bastion of Christianity and the antipole of the islamitic fundamentalism in the Arabic world. I bet that if Bush says his war in Iraq is a crusade, many Americans applaude.

jelena4me
Nov 5th, 2004, 09:44 AM
Fingon, before you accuse me of ignorance, perhaps you could reflect a little more on Hitler's rise to power, and how a supposedly "sane" race could support such a madman.

Hitlers promises to the Germans to elevate them from financial poverty and relative low-status was a key factor in him achieving power. The point here is that voting for self-interest, whilst it may be understandable, can have dire consequences for those outside of the interest group.

I think that there is indeed a paralell between Hitlers approach and Bush's, and others have made this comment on other threads.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 03:52 PM
Fingon, before you accuse me of ignorance, perhaps you could reflect a little more on Hitler's rise to power, and how a supposedly "sane" race could support such a madman.

Hitlers promises to the Germans to elevate them from financial poverty and relative low-status was a key factor in him achieving power. The point here is that voting for self-interest, whilst it may be understandable, can have dire consequences for those outside of the interest group.

I think that there is indeed a paralell between Hitlers approach and Bush's, and others have made this comment on other threads.
absolutely

When Germany was defeated in WWI, it was impossed very tough conditions in the Versailles tratade. Among those conditions were to pay heavy compensation to the victors (GB and France) and France was allowed to occupy the Rhur area as a compensation for the destruction of coal mines in the north during the war.

Germans are, and have always been very nationalistics, and in fact, there are many reasons to believe the war was conducted in a very inept way. The German army was in fact stronger than the British and French ones combined, but their generals made a series of mistakes that costed them the war (of course they could have lost anyway, especially when the US got involved, but the stupidity of german generals didn't help).

Because the germans, since the times of Bismark had grown to believe they were unbeatable, many couldn't accept that the glorious german army was defeated. So there was a growing sentiment that the Germans did not start the war (in reality Austria-Hungray did) and that they actually won it, but the politicians betrayed the glorious german army and conceded defeat.

This sentiment was fed by the fact the economic situation in Germany was very bad. The Weimar republic was very weak and everyone preferred to blame all German woes on the Versailles tratade, the communists and, the jews.

Then Hitler came along, exploiting German frustration and hurt pride. Remember that a big part of Europe was leaning towards fascism, whose most recognized leader (but not the only one) was Mussolini in Italy. The western powers kind of liked fascism because it was pro-capital and kept order. Hitler's doctrine was an extreme form of fascism and he blamed the communist and especially the jews for all Germans problems. He promised to recover the German pride and he said it in a very convincing way. The germans that were basically desperate were open to that.

There was an american plan to help rebuild the german economy, and it worked at the beginning and for a while, the threat of Hitler was disminished, but then the crack of 1929 came along and the whole world was affected.

I did not mention that in the early 20s, the people living in the Rhur went on a strike, protesting for the French occupation, the goverment supported the strikers by printing money and that cause one of the worst inflations ever registered.

Under those conditions the nazis were infiltrating in every aspect of German life, many people joined them because they had a sensation of power, and because it's known that when nothing else works, you can blame someone else, Hitler did it very convincingly blaming the jews, the communists, the gipsies, etc. and for the frustrated germans it was a great way to channel their anger against those defenseless groups.

It was a lot more complex that simply economic reasons, the economic situation caused the germans to be desperate, but economic welfare wasn't what Hitler promised, he promised to take Germany back to were it belonged, the economic part was only a small part of it, the military, the german "superiority", cleaning Germany from jews, communists, homosexuals, gipsies and the likes was a big part of it.

Honestly, I can't see the paralelism with Bush and the US, yes, Bush went to war, yes, Hitler went to war, so have many leaders in different places and different times. Hitler wasn't even too religious like Bush is, he had a good relationship with the Church because it fit his interest, but the arian "superiority" was more based on ethnicity than religion (the german jews were prosecuted, but mostly because the jews were the common enemy around who Hitler built nazi Germany).

The history is of course a lot more complex and long, and I won't intend to write a book on German history (that I am sure the German poster know a lot better than me).

Bush can be evil if you want, but to compare him with Hitler is oversimplifying thing to an extreme, there are not more paralellism between Hitler and Bush than between Hitler and Kennedy, they have nothing in common and there is nothing that make Bush more like Hitler than other right-wing leaders.

I really don't give a shit for what other threads or poster said, I have read enough bullshit in this board and certainly, I don't use what's written here to make up my mind or learn. Most of it is written by people that are bitter, have no clue and/or are too young and haven't bothered to check their sources.

and I know there are a lot of stuff in the internet about this, my advice, check the url, not everything posted on the internet is right (in fact, 90% of it is wrong). And it's known that it's very common to compare any goverment that they don't like with Hitler, Hitler is synonimous of evil, but there are many kinds and degrees of evil.

Finally, about why a "sane" race can support such a madman? read history and you will find out why, and you might need to go very far back, probably the the Richelieu times or further. And the germans aren't the only ones that have supported a "madman" (a too nice euphemism IMO), but to make it short, I dont' believe they really knew what they were getting into, and in fact I believe they didn't know it when they were deep in shit, and when they realized it, it was too late.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 04:32 PM
You are no better than the religious right wing who force their views on everyone and criticize those who believe differently.
[/quote]when you have something with substance to say, please do, the "you are not better" without support really doesn't mean much.


You talk a good game about hypocrisy, but you are the epitome of it. Your rants about hating relgion are just as hysterical as the so-called rants of those of us who are Christians and believe that Bush may be the antichrist.
you are even more stupid than I thought, the reason I said I hated religion is to make it clear I don't share Bush's views on religion.

And the theories about the antichrist have as much logic as the spider man story, a nice fairy tale and nothing else, if all you can oppose to that is "faith" then don't waste my time.

People who truly practice the faith, don't force their beliefs on anyone or judge people who don't believe as they do.
that has to be the biggest piece of crap I've ever heard, how many religious groups are constantly trying to force others to follow their way? how many crimes and war have been started by those people who "practice their faith" agaisnt those who don't think like them. That's the very argument of those criticizing Bush, the fear that he will try to imposse his religious values to the country.

Haven't you heard of the christian coalition against/for ...., they oppose everything from homosexuals, pornography, literature, free thinking, and they TRY to imposse their views. You should leave your little bubble and live in the real world.


People who truly practice the faith merely convey the Word and if someone doesn't want to hear it, a true Christian will walk away.
whatever


All kidding aside,
was all the previous stuff a joke? not a very good one

I do not wish any harm to Bush or anyone else. Nor do I judge those who support him. I pity them, because obviously they don't see the truth.
now you have all the answers, don't you? those who don't think like you deserve pity, how open-minded.

The truth being that this man is a liar, a sadist and a meglomaniac and he has cost this country money, jobs and lives and it's only going to get worse. Thank God, it's only four more years. I'm truly sad about the destruction he will further cause the world.
you are entitled to your own opinion, and I won't call you an idiot or a bigot for having that, I will if you base it in visceral feelings rather than reason.

Steff_forever
Nov 5th, 2004, 04:36 PM
Honestly, I can't see the paralelism with Bush and the US, yes, Bush went to war, yes, Hitler went to war, so have many leaders in different places and different times. Hitler wasn't even too religious like Bush is, he had a good relationship with the Church because it fit his interest, but the arian "superiority" was more based on ethnicity than religion (the german jews were prosecuted, but mostly because the jews were the common enemy around who Hitler built nazi Germany).

The history is of course a lot more complex and long, and I won't intend to write a book on German history (that I am sure the German poster know a lot better than me).

Bush can be evil if you want, but to compare him with Hitler is oversimplifying thing to an extreme, there are not more paralellism between Hitler and Bush than between Hitler and Kennedy, they have nothing in common and there is nothing that make Bush more like Hitler than other right-wing leaders.
...

Finally, about why a "sane" race can support such a madman? read history and you will find out why, and you might need to go very far back, probably the the Richelieu times or further. And the germans aren't the only ones that have supported a "madman" (a too nice euphemism IMO), but to make it short, I dont' believe they really knew what they were getting into, and in fact I believe they didn't know it when they were deep in shit, and when they realized it, it was too late. You're right, many posts in which there are comparisons bteween Hitler and Bush are far too emotional than rational.
But there is a common feeling in Europe, especially in Germany since the 1920ies (Weimarer Republik which many Germans hated cause they saw a betrayal of the nation in that first glimps of democracy) and the WWII (the result of overwhelming nationalism). This feeling is in your own words: let's listen to what a man that has power says - how he says it and what the intentions of his words are. In case of Mr. Bush my feeling is he always wants a foreign enemy to join his people. His words are often linked to strong believe and strength, to unification and with easily understandable one-way arguments. I call that indoctrination whatever his intentions are. There should be a certain sensitiveness towards those words. Especially when a man who rules the only remaining world power in the 21st century uses them.
I will again take care if he lies again, speaks of 'God' to justify his deeds or if he appeals to people's' fears. And why ? Cause I'm a GERMAN. In my homecountry minorities have been extingiushed cause they had other religions, other forms of life, divergent opinions.
I'm afraid if one man feels that his simple words can justify the reduction of civil rights and the solution of problems only with war.

Fingon
Nov 5th, 2004, 04:38 PM
So then is it supposed to fine? I donīt think so.

It is not surprising me, it pisses me off, because a monkey killer also tells gay people he wants to ban gay marriages, etc in the name of GOD!
did I say that? I only pointed out that what you are accusing Bush and his follower of doing is not exclusive to them and it's rathen inherent to all religions. I never said it's right, I only said it's the way it is.


And about gay marriages and god, the only world from god we have if the one given to us through the bible and other religious books, and the pope, clerics, preaches or however you want to call them, in other words, for human interpretation of what God wants, and many of those "words" were written over 2000 years ago by MEN, and those are the rules they are following now.

Of course they will twist them to fit their wishes, what do you expect? do you think it's not logical to invoke the name of god that is supposed to mean love and use it to ban gay marriage? well, if you expect logic in religious issues you will be very dissapointed, this is not the place but if you analyze what most religions say the blatant lack of logic and consistency is a common denominator, and it's well known that governments everywhere and in every time have used religion for their own purposes, and religious leaders have never even tried to be consistent in their views, and those who tried have been demonized and even burnt alive.

cheesestix
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:05 PM
I'm not a Christian, I'm a Buddhist.... and I've had a lot of spare time to read up on stuff like religion, probably more time than you've read on any page of it.

Oh yeah, you sound like a Buddhist! :rolleyes:

Hey, which part of the Buddhist religion (or religious text) talks about:

wishing terrorism on people?
wishing financial woe on people?
wishing for assassination or bodily harm on people?

:rolleyes:

I'm no Buddhist, but I'm sure you don't practice what Buddha preached.

cheesestix
Nov 5th, 2004, 05:06 PM
Maybe upon hearing Bush got assassinated, Cheney will have a fatal heart attack from the shock. :hehehe: One can only hope. :p

Damn, you are one sick, hateful, bitter, angry, spiteful bitch! :wavey:

DeDe4925
Nov 5th, 2004, 09:29 PM
You are no better than the religious right wing who force their views on everyone and criticize those who believe differently.
when you have something with substance to say, please do, the "you are not better" without support really doesn't mean much.

you are even more stupid than I thought, the reason I said I hated religion is to make it clear I don't share Bush's views on religion.

And the theories about the antichrist have as much logic as the spider man story, a nice fairy tale and nothing else, if all you can oppose to that is "faith" then don't waste my time.
that has to be the biggest piece of crap I've ever heard, how many religious groups are constantly trying to force others to follow their way? how many crimes and war have been started by those people who "practice their faith" agaisnt those who don't think like them. That's the very argument of those criticizing Bush, the fear that he will try to imposse his religious values to the country.

Haven't you heard of the christian coalition against/for ...., they oppose everything from homosexuals, pornography, literature, free thinking, and they TRY to imposse their views. You should leave your little bubble and live in the real world.

whatever

was all the previous stuff a joke? not a very good one
now you have all the answers, don't you? those who don't think like you deserve pity, how open-minded.
you are entitled to your own opinion, and I won't call you an idiot or a bigot for having that, I will if you base it in visceral feelings rather than reason.

Fingon, regarding all the people who voted for Bush, I pity them, but I pity you more. You are void of spirituality, respect and compassion and most importantly respect. You call me stupid because I believe in something you don't. I was right, you do think you have all the answers and everything figured out.

I thought I made it clear as to what I meant when I accused you of being no better than the religious right wing. Just like you, they persecute others for not believing the way they do and don't want to listen to different ideas, because they have it all figured out, or at least they think they do. You don't believe in God, religion, or faith and that's fine for you, but you go a step further and persecute and critisize those who do. Just like you, they are closed minded and unbending. You hate religion and refute God, faith and spirituality so vehemently that you close your mind to the possibility. This may not be enough support for my argument in your mind, but I'm just telling you what I see. Take it or leave it, I could care less, but I'm just as free to express my opinions as you. Regardless of whether they agree with yours or not. You attack so viciously that people on this board are afraid to disagree with you for fear of your wrath. You are a very intelligent person, but you are certainly not the smartest person in the world and your intelligence doesn't give you carte blanche to call a person stupid or assume they are if they don't convey their thoughts as clearly as you do in this forum. Most of the posts here are knee jerk responses or reactions to other people's attacks. If you went about responding to people in a more respectful way, you'd probably gain a lot more respect here. And, please don't tell me that you don't care if anyone respects you here. If you didn't, you wouldn't post your opinions.

The reason you said you hated religion is to make it clear you don't share Bush's views on religion. You couldn't just say that you don't share Bush's views on religion? Seems to me you said hate, because either that's what you really feel or you wanted to inflame the religious.

Regarding the antichrist theory, if you think it's a fairy tale, what can I say? That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. My thoughts on it are based on faith. Therefore, I won't waste your time or mine.

Regarding my assertion that true Christians don't force their beliefs on anyone and you saying it was the biggest piece of crap, I was just telling you the teachings of Jesus. You see that I qualified my statement with the word "true" Christians. Most people, including myself don't follow the faith religiously like we are supposed to. I said that about true Christians to say that a lot of people voted for Bush, because he's supposed to be such a good Christian and my point was that he is the opposite of the faith. He espouses a lot of religious right wing rhetoric, but he doesn't practice the basic tenets of the faith, as a matter of fact, he does just the opposite. I oppose Bush, but I don't fear that he will try to impose religious values or Christian values, because in my opinion, he doesn't have any. My fear is that he has and will use religion and Christianity to gather followers who only hear the rhetoric, but fail to see the truth.

Haven't you heard of the christian coalition against/for ...., they oppose everything from homosexuals, pornography, literature, free thinking, and they TRY to imposse their views. You should leave your little bubble and live in the real world.

Yes, but again these people wouldn't know the meaning of Christianity if they tripped over it. Most of these people think that Jesus was a Caucasion and tell you that you are a blasphemer if you claim different. Again, I prefaced my statement about Christians with the word "true". Most of these people don't read the teachings of Jesus and if they do, they interpret his teachings to fit into their WASP little world, or they listen to the incorrect and politically right winged charged sermons of their intolerant ministers. Maybe you should open your mind about the true teachings and not judge all Christians or people of other faiths based on the actions of the most visible ignorant few.

The posts regarding the assissination of Bush were jokes that came out of anger and fear about the future. I assume that those of us who participated in the few posts felt the same, but it was all in fun to relieve the tension. Yes it was sick and not very funny to those who support Bush, but we had a moment, give us a break. Talk about intolerant, you're pretty intolerant yourself Fingon.

now you have all the answers, don't you? those who don't think like you deserve pity, how open-minded.

I don't think having pity for someone is being closed minded. I think it's charitable. Would I be closed minded for having pity on someone who is sick, injured, homeless, abused, or mislead? In the beginning immediately after the election, I was pretty judgmental of the people who voted for Bush, but that was out of anger and it wasn't right. Then I came to understand that some voted for him for different reasons, some financial and some religious. Based on my opinion of Bush, I have a right to feel sorry for those who voted for him for those very reasons. If financial, those who voted for him basically don't care about the middle class (the very backbone of the economy of this country), nor do they care about the innocent victims in Iraq. If religious, see above.

you are entitled to your own opinion, and I won't call you an idiot or a bigot for having that, I will if you base it in visceral feelings rather than reason.

I guess I should thank you for not insulting me any further than what you already have and allowing me to have an opinion. :) If my opinions on Bush were visceral, they would be valid, but I guess I ought to thank my lucky stars that they are based on observation. I can see what he's done and what he's doing to this country and the world. Whew...thank God I don't have to be called an idiot or bigot. ;)

Fingon
Nov 6th, 2004, 01:08 AM
Fingon, regarding all the people who voted for Bush, I pity them, but I pity you more. You are void of spirituality, respect and compassion and most importantly respect.
really, and how do you know that?, so only religious people can be spiritual and compasionate?, at least if I feel compassion for someone it's authentic compassion and not that I feel that way because my God wants me to.

You call me stupid because I believe in something you don't. I was right, you do think you have all the answers and everything figured out.
I wouldn't call you stupid for that, in fact I don't remember calling you stupid but I might have done, I call many people stupid.
I really don't care what you believe, but what bothers me is when the arguments are simplified and minimized by resorting to religious beliefs or visceral rants, especially when there are rational ways to do the same that would be far more effective.

I thought I made it clear as to what I meant when I accused you of being no better than the religious right wing. Just like you, they persecute others for not believing the way they do and don't want to listen to different ideas, because they have it all figured out, or at least they think they do.
don't you think that persecute is a little extreme? if by arguing your points you understand persecuting, fine, I thought Hitler persecuted the Jews, I thought the inquisition persecuted non-christians, I didn't know I was persecuting anyone :smash:

You don't believe in God, religion, or faith and that's fine for you, but you go a step further and persecute and critisize those who do.
hmmm, nope, I don't "persecute" anybody for their beliefs, I argue the use of those beliefs to make a conclusion. So you say that a wall is white when for me it's obviously green but you said so because your religion tells you it's white, so if I argue it's not white and that God's word is not enough for me to change my perception then I am persecuting you? interesting.

Just like you, they are closed minded and unbending. You hate religion and refute God, faith and spirituality so vehemently that you close your mind to the possibility.
there is no possibility for me, believe me, I have thought this through and what religions say does not make any sense to me. I accept you believe because you have faith but for me, I need a rational argument and IMO it's not possible, there are just too many holes (we could discuss this in another topic but there is no time or space for it here).

Believe me, nothing that you or anyone else can tell me will convince me that god exists, and I have read the numerous "rational" arguments that prove the existence of Gods and each and any one of them are failed. It's not me being stubborn but the same way you won't convince me that Earth is the centre of the Universe you won't convince me that God exists, especially when the so called God's word it's really some men's word that has been proven to be wrong numerous times (does the process against Galileo ring a bell).

This may not be enough support for my argument in your mind, but I'm just telling you what I see. Take it or leave it, I could care less, but I'm just as free to express my opinions as you.
of course you can have your opinions, but if you post them in a public forum it's for them to be debated, or what do you expect? that we say yes, ok? then don't post them in a public forum.

Regardless of whether they agree with yours or not. You attack so viciously that people on this board are afraid to disagree with you for fear of your wrath.
wow, talking about being extremist, they fear my wrath, I didn't know I was so important, that must be the most amusing comment of the day.

You are a very intelligent person, but you are certainly not the smartest person in the world
certainly I am not

and your intelligence doesn't give you carte blanche to call a person stupid or assume they are if they don't convey their thoughts as clearly as you do in this forum.
fair enough, what about all those liberal posters that called Bush supporters idiot just because they support Bush? why don't you call them off as well?

Most of the posts here are knee jerk responses or reactions to other people's attacks.
really? well, when someone (not you) wishes Bush to be assassinated of the terrorists to strike in the US because they didn't like the result of the elections, and they call themselves liberals then I do have a problem with that, that's not a knee jerk response, that's an asshole's response.

And care to look at the multiple threads or posts started for serveral months attacking Bush's supporters, I don't think they were reactions but actions.

If you went about responding to people in a more respectful way, you'd probably gain a lot more respect here. And, please don't tell me that you don't care if anyone respects you here. If you didn't, you wouldn't post your opinions.
I really don't give a shit, if you don't believe me, too bad. I like discussing in a rational way, I am not looking for respect, I am certainly not worried for what people in a message board think about me.

The reason you said you hated religion is to make it clear you don't share Bush's views on religion. You couldn't just say that you don't share Bush's views on religion?
No, because many "liberals" claimed that all Bush's supporters are right-wing religious fanatics, homophobic, etc, and giving some background information I can demonstrate that not only I don't share Bush's views in religion, but I opposed them as strongly as you can get.

And you know what the problem is? I don't think Bush was a good president, I don't think he will be, I think he made many mistakes, but by taking the discussion to irrational areas, his opposition couldn't present a valid alternative.

Bush has a lot to be criticized for, instead of trying to put it in rational ways, they prefered to label all Bush's supporters as clerical, fanatics, homophobes, idiot, etc.

They focused on Kerry and Bush's war records as if being in Vietnam or not had anything to do with their ability to be a president.

Maybe, just maybe if you Bush haters tried to use the many rational reasons not to vote for Bush instead of saying he is the antichrist and his supporters are idiots then you would have gotten enough support to kick him out. the problem wasn't that Bush was good, the problem was that his opposition couldn't present a better alternative.


Seems to me you said hate, because either that's what you really feel or you wanted to inflame the religious.
I really feel that way, I think religion has done more bad than good to human kind and I think it's used to manage the minds of people to serve the interests of a few.

Regarding the antichrist theory, if you think it's a fairy tale, what can I say? That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. My thoughts on it are based on faith. Therefore, I won't waste your time or mine.
exactly

Regarding my assertion that true Christians don't force their beliefs on anyone and you saying it was the biggest piece of crap, I was just telling you the teachings of Jesus.
really? how do you know that? what you have seen is what the apolstoles said he said, and a translation in any case.

You see that I qualified my statement with the word "true" Christians. Most people, including myself don't follow the faith religiously like we are supposed to. I said that about true Christians to say that a lot of people voted for Bush, because he's supposed to be such a good Christian and my point was that he is the opposite of the faith.
I understand that, but really I have seldon seen that, mother Theresa maybe, and very few others, in general religion is use as a way to achieve other things, and religious groups are not tolerant and do try to imposse their views, Bush's way isn't an exception, it's the rule.

He espouses a lot of religious right wing rhetoric, but he doesn't practice the basic tenets of the faith, as a matter of fact, he does just the opposite. I oppose Bush, but I don't fear that he will try to impose religious values or Christian values, because in my opinion, he doesn't have any.
You have to ask that to Mr Bush.

My fear is that he has and will use religion and Christianity to gather followers who only hear the rhetoric, but fail to see the truth.
that's my fear too


Yes, but again these people wouldn't know the meaning of Christianity if they tripped over it. Most of these people think that Jesus was a Caucasion and tell you that you are a blasphemer if you claim different. Again, I prefaced my statement about Christians with the word "true". Most of these people don't read the teachings of Jesus and if they do, they interpret his teachings to fit into their WASP little world, or they listen to the incorrect and politically right winged charged sermons of their intolerant ministers.
exactly, same as catholics, muslims, jews, etc.

Maybe you should open your mind about the true teachings and not judge all Christians or people of other faiths based on the actions of the most visible ignorant few.
well, the problem is that IMO Jesus was, at best, just a man, I don't feel the need to follow his teaching unless they make sense to me.

I don't doubt there are many great Christians as there are great muslims, but I've seen religion misused too often to be able to trust any religious group.

The posts regarding the assissination of Bush were jokes that came out of anger and fear about the future.
I don't think it's a very good joke and others might think the same, I suggest you to be careful with those jokes, they do scan message boards and nevermind if you make those jokes in a less anonymous forum.

I assume that those of us who participated in the few posts felt the same, but it was all in fun to relieve the tension. Yes it was sick and not very funny to those who support Bush, but we had a moment, give us a break. Talk about intolerant, you're pretty intolerant yourself Fingon.
well, I am sorry, I might not be religious but I have my values, and those "jokes" were way beyond the line IMO. Call me intolerant if you want but for me there is a limit.


I don't think having pity for someone is being closed minded. I think it's charitable. Would I be closed minded for having pity on someone who is sick, injured, homeless, abused, or mislead? In the beginning immediately after the election, I was pretty judgmental of the people who voted for Bush, but that was out of anger and it wasn't right.
see my point? your examples confirm it, you are treating Bush supporters as you be treat someone who is sick, injured, homeless, abused or mislead, it's really not very flattering really.

Then I came to understand that some voted for him for different reasons, some financial and some religious. Based on my opinion of Bush, I have a right to feel sorry for those who voted for him for those very reasons. If financial, those who voted for him basically don't care about the middle class (the very backbone of the economy of this country), nor do they care about the innocent victims in Iraq. If religious, see above.
again you are over simplifying, there are more than two possible reasons and it's often a mix of serveral reasons. I didn't vote since I am not american but if I had been I would have probably voted Bush simply because I didn't know what Kerry wanted to do and his position regarding terrorism was too soft, and terrorism for me is a very big issue that dwarfs the rest at the moment, not that I think Bush is doing a great job against terrorism but I felt Kerry was going to be worse, call it choosing the less bad. Hardly fits your definition.


I guess I should thank you for not insulting me any further than what you already have and allowing me to have an opinion. :) If my opinions on Bush were visceral, they would be valid, but I guess I ought to thank my lucky stars that they are based on observation. I can see what he's done and what he's doing to this country and the world. Whew...thank God I don't have to be called an idiot or bigot. ;)
I do get carried away some times (well often) and I am aware that's not compatible with preaching rationality at the same time, but I am far from perfect, I apoligize for that and I'll (try) not to do it in the future.

On the other hand I am more than willing to discuss what's wrong with Bush, what's wrong with the US and the world and what can be done to make things better, but when I saw the word antichrist frankly I can't have much base for such a discussion.

LucasArg
Nov 6th, 2004, 05:54 AM
Too many quotes to answer, but Fingon, what I want to say is that I hate when Bush and his fans say they ban the gay marriage because God made men for women, but they donīt remember when God says "You shall not kill"?

So those who voted for him because of moral values are blind or evil.

Using the name of God for your convenience in not right and that is why I DISLIKE all these people. Including George W Bush.

LucasArg
Nov 6th, 2004, 05:56 AM
I wish I could discuss in spanish, I am not an english expert when comes to writing.

Fingon
Nov 6th, 2004, 07:17 AM
Too many quotes to answer, but Fingon, what I want to say is that I hate when Bush and his fans say they ban the gay marriage because God made men for women, but they donīt remember when God says "You shall not kill"?

So those who voted for him because of moral values are blind or evil.

Using the name of God for your convenience in not right and that is why I DISLIKE all these people. Including George W Bush.
I agree with that

jelena4me
Nov 6th, 2004, 08:56 AM
Yeah , and I agree too. Bush is hardly a lightship for moral values.

Religious people, particularly mundamentalists, tend to be far too simplistic in their acceptance of the history of humans and the universe.

I dont believe religions know any more than the rest of us about the "truth".
The pope, supposedly Gods right hand man, used to insist the world was flat until forced to change his view, that shows you how much knowledge he has access to.

I recommend reading Bill Bryson's "A short history of nearly everything". This will convince you that the universe and the earth are far more fantastic places than you realise or than a simplistic religious viewpoint would have you believe.

From this, of course, there is no proof or otherwise of the existence of "God", but an understanding of science does make you very skeptical of the stories spun by the worlds major religions.

Melkale
Nov 6th, 2004, 09:30 AM
Bush is not the anti-christ. He is a bad leader and a powerful man, but you should try living with an African leader with absolutely no restrictions on what they can do. I have friends that have to do that, then Bush wouldn't be so bad.

Sam L
Nov 6th, 2004, 12:00 PM
Too many quotes to answer, but Fingon, what I want to say is that I hate when Bush and his fans say they ban the gay marriage because God made men for women, but they donīt remember when God says "You shall not kill"?

So those who voted for him because of moral values are blind or evil.

Using the name of God for your convenience in not right and that is why I DISLIKE all these people. Including George W Bush.
I agree, too. And what it comes down to is religion shouldn't have a place in a country's politics. I mean really.

Bacardi
Nov 6th, 2004, 06:07 PM
The thing is, Pat Robertson, that 700 Club Christian TV Show guy, he came out and pubically supported Bush. He basically made it sound like this, 'if you are a democrat or liberal, you're going to burn in hell'. Not only did he do that, but the major Hoo Doo, Voo Doo, Blah Blah shit of TBN Network (which is basically the second coming of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker's bullshit) also fully supported Bush, and stated if you voted Dem or Lib you were going to hell. The fact is, a lot of people, old especially who are Christian, and aren't really well enough to get themselves to a church on Sunday voted for Bush based on what those people, TV Religion Moneygrabbers (as I call them) had to say.

Bacardi
Nov 6th, 2004, 06:10 PM
And for the record, wanna read how POWERFUL and also what a HYPOCRITE TBN is. :lol:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/entertainment/television/10029041.htm?1c

Troubled SoCal religious network cancels live ``Praise-a-thons''


LOS ANGELES (AP) - The world's largest Christian broadcasting network, whose founder reportedly sought to cover up a homosexual affair with a former employee, has dropped plans for its live telethon next week and instead will show 40 hours of telethon reruns.

The twice-annual ``Praise-a-thons'' bring in more than $90 million each in pledges for Trinity Broadcasting Network. They have been a core source of fundraising for the Orange County-based network since its creation more than three decades ago.

Network officials said the decision was made earlier this month due to concerns about the health of network co-founder Paul Crouch, 70, and his wife Jan, 66, who are its most popular on-air personalities.

But they also acknowledge the decision would take the pressure off of guest pastors concerned about the controversy.

It was reported last month that Paul Crouch secretly paid a former employee $425,000 in 1998 to keep quiet about claims of a homosexual tryst. Crouch has denied the allegations.

``To take the live broadcasting off -- I can't imagine'' that, said R. Marie Griffith, a scholar at Princeton University who studies evangelical Christians and the media. ``It suggests a very strong sense of the chaos they are undergoing there.''

The cancellation also comes after newspaper articles detailed the Crouch's lavish lifestyle and the ministry's wealth, with its average annual surplus of $60 million.

Paul Crouch Jr., a network executive and son of its founding couple, said his mother had been slow to recover from recent gallbladder surgery and was not up to the weeklong telethon.

A ``best of'' format, with segments from past shows spliced together would allow for a faster-paced show, he said.

But he added, ``It seems that when TBN is persecuted, so goes the whole body of Christ,'' and that other ministries were concerned that ``they are going to be next on the hit list.''

Paul Crouch reached the 1998 settlement after the former worker threatened to sue over claims he had been unjustly fired from the network.

Crouch later won a closed-door ruling against the employee, Enoch Lonnie Ford, 41, after Ford tried to violate a provision of the settlement that barred him from discussing the alleged encounter.

JustineTime
Nov 6th, 2004, 07:52 PM
I don't know whether or not the allegations against Mr. Crouch hold water, but I stopped watchin TBN a lo-o-o-ng time ago, when he insisted upon giving airtime and credence to people like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland.

Here's the thing, unbelievers: there are many, many, many God-fearing unhypocritical Christians, most of whom you never hear about, who go about their lives walking the walk, and only talk the talk when required or requested to do so, much like our Master Himself.

Especially since the advent of televangelism, there have been many people who have publically crucified "the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame"(Heb. 6:6). They shall have their reward! But they are merely handy justifications for unbelievers to point and say "See, see, I knew it, all Christians are hypocrites!" and think smugly to themselves that that excuses them from seeking the TRUTH from its ultimate source, the Master Himself. :shrug:

As Jesus said: Matt 7:21-23: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

By their fruits they are known, but no unbeliever will be justified in their unbelief by the acts of false believers. It's a hollow argument, and were you truthful with yourselves, you would acknowledge it. :shrug:

JustineTime
Nov 6th, 2004, 08:55 PM
Well g-o-o-olly! Thar's a whole lotta bass ackwards bible-thumpin' rednecks in them thar counties! :lol:

http://www.hannity.com/img/usa_election_map.jpg

:secret: Don't you extreme lefties know you're in the minority in this country? :eek:

:haha:

:hug: :)

Tennis Fool
Nov 6th, 2004, 09:29 PM
This map represents counties, not population.

So, what's your point? :shrug:

JustineTime
Nov 6th, 2004, 09:51 PM
This map represents counties, not population.

So, what's your point? :shrug:
Well, ahem :hehehe:, being one of the aforementioned hillbillies, I lack the intellectual capacity to ascend to your level to explain it. :shrug: :confused:

LucasArg
Nov 7th, 2004, 08:29 AM
What s is up with south texas?

This map doesnīt say much anyway.

jelena4me
Nov 7th, 2004, 08:58 AM
Frightening.
We see some of that TV evangelism stuff on channel 783 or something, and its really scacey that anyone gives credence to that surreal pageant. The WWF stuff looks less stupid.