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Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 07:59 PM
It seems to me that a majority of Europeans don't understand how Bush can be supported for his intolerance to homosexual rights, abortion, etc. Will he actually represents the traditional view of America.

Although Puritans (Pilgrims) actually consisted of only a minority of the original settlers, their views became the underlying beliefs of Americans. There is, to be sure, a duplicity in American society, one that believes in religion as the glue to community (in 'God We Trust') and the other that religion must remain outside of politics. In fact, most of the Founding Fathers (Franklin, Jefferson, et al) were not very religious, and feared the uneducated populous, a reason that there is a separation of Church and State.

This duplicity remains inbredded in the society to this day. For the most part, families in the South and MidWest go to church every Sunday, and believe that the Christian God is the only reality.

It is *not* just religious fundamentalists that are anti-homosexuality and anti-abortion. Bush is not a relgious fundamentalist. Many people just feel that, based on how they were raised, they cannot reconcile these acts with their beliefs.

In the US, you will *not* see a woman's breast on a commercial for shampoo, or on the front of a fashion magazine. Victoria's Secret's fashion show was just banned from the airwaves do to viewer complaints.

We had problems with the naked "statues" on display in the Olympic Opening Ceremonies.

So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?

Joana
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:39 PM
Serbia and Montenegro here

1. Not at all. I don't remember the last time I have been to church.
2. Yes, unfortunately there is, and it seems to be growing at the moment.
3. Abortion is a reality here, we have an extremely high rate of abortions and it is completely legal. However, homosexuality is still a huge taboo and most people see it as something invented in the USA.

GoDominique
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:45 PM
(Germany)

1. Only on Christmas. :o So it was more or less a farce.
2. Not really as far as I know.
3. They are not hot topics day in day out, but they are definitely important issues. They aren't seen as "American" though.

Spunky83
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:55 PM
(Germany)

1. Only on Christmas. :o So it was more or less a farce.
2. Not really as far as I know.
3. They are not hot topics day in day out, but they are definitely important issues. They aren't seen as "American" though.

Yeah...what is it with American (third question)? I didnīt get it. Of course I get that America has a very deep connection to their roots and religion and I really do appreciate it, I also appreciate it that Americans are patriotic and love their country. Why not? You have archieved so many great things.

I also donīt care about that women in turkey have to cover their head because of religious beliefs or whatever. It is just that this election concerns the whole world. Thatīs why thereīs such an intense discussion about everything which Bush has to offer or not has to offer. Well...we see!!!

shap_half
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:03 PM
It doesn't matter if the underlying foundation of American values stemes from Buddhism. Those values should not in anyway affect the decisions being made in a political forum.

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:13 PM
1) last time I wanted to got to church and I did was Eastern 1983. Afterwards only forced by funerals ... (since then I decided that nature is my only 'God' and all I can see or feel). I am glad to be atheistic. But my intentions are only the best !
2) No. Just more or less believing in God and love.
3) homosexuality and abortion is nothing American. Do you think that's something like Aids we got from you ?????? I hope it'll never be something American when I see the development in the US to punish it by social separation. Women should decide by their own conscience til the 3rd month. Gays should live together wherever they want and even raise children if they want. Gay marriage is accepted in my family as something legal.

Is all this somehow anti-Christian to you ?

Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:23 PM
It doesn't matter if the underlying foundation of American values stemes from Buddhism. Those values should not in anyway affect the decisions being made in a political forum.
But they do. That's what the point of the thread is.

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:25 PM
3) = That's what I learned from the history of my own country ...

Paldias
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:34 PM
Maybe you don't understand though...BUSH IS AN IDIOT and I'm not clouded by these so called 'EUROPEAN' values...:rolleyes:

Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:38 PM
1) last time I wanted to got to church and I did was Eastern 1983. Afterwards only forced by funerals ... (since then I decided that nature is my only 'God' and all I can see or feel). I am glad to be atheistic. But my intentions are only the best !
2) No. Just more or less believing in God and love.
3) homosexuality and abortion is nothing American. Do you think that's something like Aids we got from you ?????? I hope it'll never be something American when I see the development in the US to punish it by social separation. Women should decide by their own conscience til the 3rd month. Gays should live together wherever they want and even raise children if they want. Gay marriage is accepted in my family as something legal.

Is all this somehow anti-Christian to you ?

Thanks for your thoughts :wavey:

Homosexuality and gay marriage are not anti-Christian to me (although I really don't consider myself a Christian anymore, for other reasons). However, a lot of devout (and I mean non-fundamentalist) Christians were raised to believe these things were wrong (or they weren't discussed, therefore somehow wrong). There are, of course, devout Christians who have no problems with these issues, including those who happen to be gay Christians, themselves.

I would say my generation (I'm 31), was the first really not having to attend church faithfully after childhood. I don't know about your parents, but every generation from the 1700s to about 1970 went to church faithfully every Sunday.

Of course, when there was really a time of community, it revolved around church. I would say that if you are from the Midwest and South, and not raised in a big city, your community is based around going to church.

Politicians may do it now just to get votes, but be assured that the Clintons, Bushes and Kerrys all were raised in a church.

tfannis
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:42 PM
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
No at all...I never went to church, I never had religion courses at school. The only religious thing ever done to me was my parents getting me baptised to please my grandparents :rolleyes:
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
I don't think so. Sometimes there are Yehova (sp?) witnesses on my doorstep, but they don't stay long ;)
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
Abortion hasn't been a topic for many years. It's legalized and it'll stay that way :)
Euthanasia still is a topic, but is legalized to (complex procedure though).
Gay marriages are legalized, and not that much of a topic anymore. Adoption by gay couples is still a problem though :rolleyes:

Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:43 PM
Maybe you don't understand though...BUSH IS AN IDIOT and I'm not clouded by these so called 'EUROPEAN' values...:rolleyes:
That may be but when he says his idol is "Jesus Christ, because he is my personal savior", he has a bloc of votes locked up that Kerry does not.

Kerry is also pro-choice, pro-"gay" and that turns a lot of people off (well, since it's in the Democratic platform, that also turns a lot of people off).

Also, if people who are voting for Kerry or are undecided, knew that Kerry's grandfather was a Jew who converted, they'd probably swing the other way.

SJW
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:49 PM
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
(UK)
1. i've went to church when i was wrong but my parents gave me the choice on whether i wanted to continue going
2. religious fundamentalism? not particularly where i live. my hometown is more than cool.
3. abortion is accepted here. gay marriage isn't as massive a "taboo" as in the USA, where i live is relatively "western european" about it...people aren't all for it, but are more liberal in their thinking than most places in the US and rest of UK

Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:50 PM
There was a very interesting "reality" special on PBS last spring called "Colonial House." It took a group of 21st century people and put them in the woods with three cabins as if it were 1690s.

They *had* to go to church. If they didn't, well- it was just unheard of. You have to be a witch or a heathen (Indian) not to go to church.

On the show, the town minister was boring, and put everyone to sleep. Some folks decided to rebel, and swim naked in the river :p They were punished, though.

Soon the mayor (who in real life was a fundamentalist minister who was a nice guy, tolerated the one lone gay man, but still said it wasn't right) had to make a law forcing everyone to go to church, or they'd end up with a scarlett letter on their clothes. That still didn't work, and he just gave up.

Spunky83
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:56 PM
Maybe you don't understand though...BUSH IS AN IDIOT and I'm not clouded by these so called 'EUROPEAN' values...:rolleyes:

How many red dotties have you already received for this comment? :lol: Oh man, this election is really rippin us apart people!!!

Goooo Kerry ;)

gourownway
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:04 PM
Also, if people who are voting for Kerry or are undecided, knew that Kerry's grandfather was a Jew who converted, they'd probably swing the other way.
His brother has converted back to being Jewish, and it's well known. It hasn't seemed to hurt Kerry. I'm catholic, I don't give a rats ass if Kerry was a Jew, I'd still vote for him. I'm 30, I was raised to go to church every Sunday by parents who's immigrant parents from Poland and Italy raised them to go every Sunday.

Maybe Bush is getting the push from the Protestant, groups and possible the Vatican I Catholics, however, I think Kerry is going to pull the Vatican II Catholics. It makes me ill to know that there is really NO seperation of church and state.

Time to become and Expat if Bush wins.

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:47 PM
1. i've went to church when i was wrong
But then you saw the error of your ways? :kiss:

Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:54 PM
I think he meant "young".

Martian Willow
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:59 PM
1) No.
2) No.
3) No.

propi
Nov 2nd, 2004, 05:31 AM
1) Yes I used to, be fact that I went to a religious school was a great influence ;), however I stopped when I was 14, simply by talking to my parents about the opinion I had then about the church, I continued taking Religion courses but not going to church except in special occasions.
2) Foundamentalism... if you consider Opus Dei and other extremely traditional beliefs as so yes, there's.
3)Abortion and Gay marriage... both soon to the free, the legal measures about it are being debated in Parliament right now with laws about to approve both facts.
BTW I'm in Spain :wavey:

fifiricci
Nov 2nd, 2004, 08:49 AM
I agree that parts of the American psyche still retain an alarming amount of Puritanism! C'mon you guys, evolve evolve!! ;)

The Crow
Nov 2nd, 2004, 08:57 AM
So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
1. Yes, till I was 12.
2. No
3. Not really. Although it's not like everyone's comfortable with them...

And I actually agree with fifiricci :eek: :p Imo getting away from religious conservatism is an evolution.

tall_one
Nov 2nd, 2004, 10:08 AM
1) last time I wanted to got to church and I did was Eastern 1983. Afterwards only forced by funerals ... (since then I decided that nature is my only 'God' and all I can see or feel). I am glad to be atheistic. But my intentions are only the best !
2) No. Just more or less believing in God and love.
3) homosexuality and abortion is nothing American. Do you think that's something like Aids we got from you ?????? I hope it'll never be something American when I see the development in the US to punish it by social separation. Women should decide by their own conscience til the 3rd month. Gays should live together wherever they want and even raise children if they want. Gay marriage is accepted in my family as something legal.

Is all this somehow anti-Christian to you ?
to most of the people in my home state of Iowa it is anti-Christain to believe that gay marriage and abortion should be legal. There are some chruches here that will kick members out if they are found to be donating money to either cause, much less if they are gay or have had an abortion.

OUT!
Nov 2nd, 2004, 10:24 AM
So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
Yes and I really enjoyed it.

2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
Well there are charasmatic Christians who knock door - to - door to preah the gospel. But people are so secular around where I live they don't pay much attention,

3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
I think homosexuality is to a certain extent, esp. with tabloid press and stoires of gay couples raising children and starting families via surrgoate mothers, for example. But do the tabloids necessarily reflect "society"? http://wtaworld.com/ubb/confused.gif That said, my parents are Christians but do not believe homsexuality is something that comes from "choice." I'm not that informed about abortion but my impression is no, but of course there are pro-life campaginers here but probably on the fringe of politics. The pro-choice argument is generally accepted :)

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 2nd, 2004, 10:32 AM
I realise that there's a history to it, but it really is odd and a bit funny how puritanical the US is for a country that prides itself so much on freedom. That said, it's a big, populous, and very diverse place so it's hard to generalise ... and it's the diversity that I really like about it.

SJW
Nov 2nd, 2004, 11:29 AM
But then you saw the error of your ways? :kiss:

:p

SJW
Nov 2nd, 2004, 11:30 AM
I think he meant "young".

she sure did mean young, and she doesn't know what she was thinking at the time of posting ;)

Caz
Nov 2nd, 2004, 01:15 PM
1. As a child, yes, though nowadays I have to admit that I rarely go to church
inbetween Christmas and Easter. There is a copy of the Bible sitting on the
bookshelf though.

2. No.

3. They are not exactly hot topics discussed on a daily basis, but they are
contentious debatable issues, however, I think the country as a whole
(whether pro or anti) would agree that any policies on these issues should be
voted on in parliament and not just created at the whim of the Prime Minister
due to his private religious beliefs.

saki
Nov 2nd, 2004, 05:24 PM
I understand that the U.S. has a different religious tradition, but the bit which I can't understand is why religion and politics are so intertwined. In Europe, even very fundamentalist Evangelical Christians who have puritan beliefs every bit as strong as exist in the U.S., don't mix politics and religion. It would never occur to the vast majority of European voters to question or think about a candidate's religious beliefs and, even people who are against abortion or gay marriage, don't consider these beliefs the sorts of beliefs to base their votes on. It seems particularly odd to me given that the U.S. political system is so far to the right of European politics because Republicanism/conservatism is usually against legislating on private moral issues and so I would have thought that homosexuality/abortion would be things that would be left up to the individual. In short, it seems at odds with my perception of the U.S. as a capitalist, individualist society that so many Americans seem to believe that things like abortion should be legislated against. I think of the U.S. as a land that encourages freedom and choice and not one that wants to deprive gays of civil rights or women of control over their bodies.

As is probably obvious from the above, I really dislike Bush, but I also have a really hard time understanding, not why Americans have the religious beliefs that they do, but why they want to bring religion into the political sphere.

Paneru
Nov 2nd, 2004, 05:50 PM
I understand that the U.S. has a different religious tradition, but the bit which I can't understand is why religion and politics are so intertwined. In Europe, even very fundamentalist Evangelical Christians who have puritan beliefs every bit as strong as exist in the U.S., don't mix politics and religion. It would never occur to the vast majority of European voters to question or think about a candidate's religious beliefs and, even people who are against abortion or gay marriage, don't consider these beliefs the sorts of beliefs to base their votes on. It seems particularly odd to me given that the U.S. political system is so far to the right of European politics because Republicanism/conservatism is usually against legislating on private moral issues and so I would have thought that homosexuality/abortion would be things that would be left up to the individual. In short, it seems at odds with my perception of the U.S. as a capitalist, individualist society that so many Americans seem to believe that things like abortion should be legislated against. I think of the U.S. as a land that encourages freedom and choice and not one that wants to deprive gays of civil rights or women of control over their bodies.

As is probably obvious from the above, I really dislike Bush, but I also have a really hard time understanding, not why Americans have the religious beliefs that they do, but why they want to bring religion into the political sphere.

It's because their are those that want to manipulate
using religion as a backdrop to foster their agenda.

The funny things is that the Puritans fleed Europe because
of religious persecution only to continue it in America.

We've seen throughout history what can happen when
politics and religion are intertwined and used to serve
particular peoples agenda and nothing more.

I know that many of out founding father opposed religion and
politics mixing having religion dictate rule of law.

They were wise enough to see all that has gone wrong with that and
had gone wrong and tried not to repeat it.

Their are many who allow politicians to play on their religious
beliefs and well as them in co-op with religious officials
to push their agenda's and manipulate rule of law.

I'm an American and was raised in the
church but I'm not closed-minded.

I've seen first hand the corruption, back-bitting, and hypocracy
with many religious officials who are the biggest devils in the world
and masters a manipulation (barking "fire & brimstone") to keep people
under their control.

I choose to think for myself.
I question, challenge, and try to find
my way through coming up with my own conclusions.

What's more, one's religious beliefs shouldn't be forced and or
politically imposed on anyone else as is the case with this Administration!

Tennis Fool
Nov 2nd, 2004, 06:04 PM
Saki: To follow up on Kabuke, as I mentioned communities were always centered around the church. Now, how do you get the community to vote for someone running for office? You get the people talking about the candidate in their church, and they (ta da!) become an influential voting bloc.

How do you think the Conservative Christian movement got going? On the grassroots level of course! In 1960, the Catholic communities voted in blocs for John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic president.

And as I said before, if your worldview is based on Christ, then often you *cannot* separate views such as abortion and homosexuality from the state.

saki
Nov 2nd, 2004, 06:16 PM
And as I said before, if your worldview is based on Christ, then often you *cannot* separate views such as abortion and homosexuality from the state.
See, I think you can and, furthermore, that it makes more sense to. Look at it this way: if you're Christian and you think X is a sin, you think that anyone committing the sin or wanting to commit the sin, is going to be punished by God; if you make the sin illegal, you don't necessarily mean that the people who would have committed the sin and still want to commit the sin are automatically going to heaven, they're still sinning in mind if not in action. I.e. the way that Christianity works, you have to actively want not to sin and you have to repent your sins in order to go to heaven, legally preventing you from sinning is not going to help. You can't change people's minds or convert them by making sins illegal. In any case, what you're talking about is not true of fundamentalist Christians worldwide, it's a peculiarly American problem. There are plenty of very strong believers in Europe and elsewhere who don't think that Christian principles should be enshrined in law, because they're a matter for private belief. What I find very strange about the U.S. is that there is a strong minority who thinks that their religious beliefs should be imposed on the whole country. It's much more reminiscient of some Islamic countries than of Christian European countries.

Steff_forever
Nov 2nd, 2004, 06:47 PM
See, I think you can and, furthermore, that it makes more sense to. Look at it this way: if you're Christian and you think X is a sin, you think that anyone committing the sin or wanting to commit the sin, is going to be punished by God; if you make the sin illegal, you don't necessarily mean that the people who would have committed the sin and still want to commit the sin are automatically going to heaven, they're still sinning in mind if not in action. I.e. the way that Christianity works, you have to actively want not to sin and you have to repent your sins in order to go to heaven, legally preventing you from sinning is not going to help. You can't change people's minds or convert them by making sins illegal. In any case, what you're talking about is not true of fundamentalist Christians worldwide, it's a peculiarly American problem. There are plenty of very strong believers in Europe and elsewhere who don't think that Christian principles should be enshrined in law, because they're a matter for private belief. What I find very strange about the U.S. is that there is a strong minority who thinks that their religious beliefs should be imposed on the whole country. It's much more reminiscient of some Islamic countries than of Christian European countries.
Tennis Fool, I think what saki expressed is the kinda feeling many European Christians have. And there's nearly no splitting or polarization between believers nad non-believers. Each group seems to respect the arguments of the other without trying to make the other opinion illegal.

I hope that the diversity in the U.S. will continue ...

salima
Nov 2nd, 2004, 09:39 PM
Tenis fool, I am too tired to do anything else than answer your questions

1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
No, my family was non christians, i was thought to respect other peoples needs and believes, but to be sceptical to the Church because they are a big and influential force in the society, who traditionally are on the rich and strong's side
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
Probably, but their influence has diminished over the last years
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?
Abortion is legal, and the right for women to decide over their lifes is very importent here. Homoseksuality, who cares anymore?

This is much my view, and seen from my position. THe country is following USA, like a puppy in a leach. Personly I dislike USA.

*Karen*
Nov 2nd, 2004, 09:48 PM
In Scotland

1.Only been to church for christening and weddings.
2.People on the whole not very religious. A little bit of bigotry at football matches. Lots of people shouting Fenians, fuck the pope and the IRA and on the other side people shouting orange bastards. So there's a little bit of religious problems. I think it's been like that since the famine when alot of Irish catholics came to Scotland.
3.Obviously, we do have homophobics here like everywhere else, but being gay is generally accepted as normal. People have the right to abortions. I don't think anyone really knows when someone has an abortion. The pregnant women would probably just keep it quiet, so maybe people are against abortion.

korben
Nov 2nd, 2004, 10:32 PM
So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?

1. Yes, but I got over it by age of 5.
2. Muslims and jehovas mainly. I wonīt open door to them so doesnīt bother me. Have opened door once to both groups and even listened their jargon for good 15 minutes. Did not impress me that much.
3. Hot topics ? Arenīt those like things that have been approved like 50 years ago ? Well 30 when speaking of country Iīm living.

Welcome to 21st century - with Kerry
Live in 19th century - with Bush

Lady
Nov 2nd, 2004, 10:58 PM
Serbia and Montenegro here

1. Not at all. I don't remember the last time I have been to church.

3. Abortion is a reality here, we have an extremely high rate of abortions and it is completely legal. However, homosexuality is still a huge taboo and most people see it as something invented in the USA.

The same is in Latvia!
Abortion is Ok, but homosexuality considered not natural, and it's considered coming from US.

But the 2nd question: the answer is No.!

jelena4me
Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:46 AM
fundamentalists take the bible as literal truth. So, unfortunately, they are everywhere and george idiot bush is one of them.

BritneySpearsIsHot
Nov 3rd, 2004, 12:52 AM
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child? NO
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area? NO
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"? NO - Like alot of places, gays are considered not normal by some sectors, abortion is never really a topic, though IMO, you get pregnant you live with it (unless raped etc etc)

Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 06:04 AM
Tennis Fool, I think what saki expressed is the kinda feeling many European Christians have. And there's nearly no splitting or polarization between believers nad non-believers. Each group seems to respect the arguments of the other without trying to make the other opinion illegal.

I hope that the diversity in the U.S. will continue ...
Well...looks like Bush will be reelected. The third major issue of concern to people was "moral values" and those were the voters who sided with Bush. He took all of the South and most of the Mountain region states.

Spunky83
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:12 AM
I hope that the diversity in the U.S. will continue ...

If not, we will send troops to the US!!! :lol:

~ The Leopard ~
Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:33 AM
:lol:

gentenaire
Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:04 AM
1. yes! I was forced to go to church every Sunday, spent my entire life in catholic schools, eventually stopped going to church when I could choose for myself.
2. no, the first time I came into contact with fundamentalists was online, with Americans
3. see Lotte's response

for the record, my parents who gave us a catholic upbringing are pro gay marriage, and they were so even before my brother announced he was gay. They would never mix politics with religion. Like Saki, I'm surprised at the way religion works in the US.

pla
Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:19 AM
So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?

1. No, I am not even baptised. Religion wasn't very well percieved back then in my home country.
2. Probably some hidden, as everywhere in the World. The most visible is the Jehovas Witnesses.
3. Abortion is permited in my home country and in the country I live in - nothing so special to think about as a moral value for most of the people. The "homosexual topic", if you permit to say it like this, is a bit more controversial in the country I live in, given the fact that some of the next-door countries have permited gay marriage. In my home country things are more complicated - homosexual people are not percieved with calm and they still suffer some discrimination. But the topic is not very "hot".

I want to add something. I had the chance to look at some of the W. European societies during the last 6 years and I saw with my own eyes how things changed. In the beggining the majority of the W. Europeans thought that everything comming from the USA is right, democratic and justified. After Bush came to power, people started slowly to realise that the Americans are in fact very different - more different on a vast scale of very important for the Europeans subjects than intially one could think.

This election will only reinforce the feeling of deep differentiation between Europeans and Americans.

flyingmachine
Nov 3rd, 2004, 01:31 PM
I want to add something. I had the chance to look at some of the W. European societies during the last 6 years and I saw with my own eyes how things changed. In the beggining the majority of the W. Europeans thought that everything comming from the USA is right, democratic and justified. After Bush came to power, people started slowly to realise that the Americans are in fact very different - more different on a vast scale of very important for the Europeans subjects than intially one could think.

This election will only reinforce the feeling of deep differentiation between Europeans and Americans.
Thankx Pla. :worship:
I'm also feeling the same thing about that as well. Before Bush came to power most Brits thought every thing American are cool that many worship them and that's including the President. I remenbered people feeling very happed when Clinton visit Brimingham, UK. (I live a city near Brimingham.) It was almost like a visit of a rock star rather than a Statesman. Than the mood change. It was very different when Bush visit here at last year. There was a large protest in London. You have to remember Brits are not a nation of protesters. Despite Tony Blair follow every step Bush has taken without question. Ever since the Iraq War. Most people in Britain hate Bush. Most British people as well as the Europeans realised not all things American is good for everyone. I don't think this will help. However at least we realised the truth about Americans and American Politics. It's no as clear as white as some people thought to be.

Let's go back to the questions

So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?


1 My parents are not Christains and the same for me so No.
2 Like anywhere there are always will be religious fundamentalism but is very few in numbers and they are not very powerful. People in here are very secular and always put religious matters out of politics
3 Abortion is gerenally acceptable. Homosexually are very acceptable especailly at large cites such as Manchester and London but less so at parts of rual areas. However they are not the "hot topics" in here unlike America.

Tennis Fool
Nov 3rd, 2004, 03:58 PM
Thanks, everyone, for your interesting posts. I've learned a lot, myself. I didn't realize how different you view religion in your country. A lot of you never grew up in church, although this also may still be generational.

FlyingMachine: I went on the BBC America message board and people seemed pretty resigned. Maybe because Blair has been following in Bush's footsteps, that it seems less of a shock :shrug:

UDiTY
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:39 PM
Yeah, that's why Bush won....he is God's choice.

That is such bullshit, but he brainwashed people to believe him. His ads were all over christian radio...it's just sad:mad:

Martian Jeza
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:48 PM
So, question to those in European countries:
1. Were you raised to go to church as a child?
2. Is there any form of religious fundamentalism in your area?
3. Are homosexuality and abortion "hot topics" or seen as something that is very "American"?


1. Yes, I was. Went last time to church last February or March : Don't remember.
2. NO
3. Not At all.

At least, Europe doesn't make an abuse of religion as Bush and his regime do !

Martian Jeza
Nov 3rd, 2004, 05:48 PM
Yeah, that's why Bush won....he is God's choice.

That is such bullshit, but he brainwashed people to believe him. His ads were all over christian radio...it's just sad:mad:

What a retard, unbelievable :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

flyingmachine
Nov 3rd, 2004, 09:38 PM
FlyingMachine: I went on the BBC America message board and people seemed pretty resigned. Maybe because Blair has been following in Bush's footsteps, that it seems less of a shock :shrug:

I'm not surprise if Blair wants to be the next president. :o