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Navratilove
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:42 AM
How come Bush is still leading the race when the rest of the whole world is against him or hoping Kerry will win?
Is it that there are too many uneducated ppl in the states or they are just as simple and narrow minded as George?
I really can't believe after so much pain this brad has caused the world, he's still as popular as he is in his home country. Is it just that Kerry is considered so incapable as president?

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:44 AM
What's in "our" best interest isn't necessarily in theirs.

(is this a troll?)

Navratilove
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:45 AM
What's in "our" best interest isn't necessarily in theirs.

(is this a troll?)

Well if there is such a confict in interest between us and them, I don't see a day will come when the Americans will be liked by others.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:48 AM
I would never base my votes on what other people want. I'll always base them on what best suits me at the given time. What best suits me might not best suit you. I couldn't care less. Not my problem.

Jarrett
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:55 AM
I would never base my votes on what other people want. I'll always base them on what best suits me at the given time. What best suits me might not best suit you. I couldn't care less. Not my problem.
ITA! :worship:

That said, I will be voting for Kerry. :cool:

Steff_forever
Oct 31st, 2004, 08:14 AM
again


WAR is PEACE

FREEDOM is SLAVERY

IGNORANCE is STRENGTH



George Orwell, 1984


the bright future has already begun ...

Pengwin
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:47 AM
again


WAR is PEACE

FREEDOM is SLAVERY

IGNORANCE is STRENGTH



George Orwell, 1984


the bright future has already begun ...


:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:


everyone should be forced to read that book and realise what's going on.l

my all time favourite book

tfannis
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:55 AM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:


everyone should be forced to read that book and realise what's going on.l

my all time favourite book
Indeed...marvelous book :worship: Should be obliged to every student :)

kabuki
Oct 31st, 2004, 12:54 PM
How come Bush is still leading the race when the rest of the whole world is against him or hoping Kerry will win?
Is it that there are too many uneducated ppl in the states or they are just as simple and narrow minded as George?
I really can't believe after so much pain this brad has caused the world, he's still as popular as he is in his home country. Is it just that Kerry is considered so incapable as president?

Most Americans do not care who the rest of the World wants as our president. Surely, other countries feel the smae way.

For Bush supporters, t's not about lack of education, simple or narrow-mindedness.

For most, it's about:

1. Terrorism- Many in America believe that GWB can keep us safer and is more hawkish.
2. Religion- Most practicing Christians will vote for GWB for moral issues. (Gay/Abortion,etc.)
3. Money - The wealthy and small business owners want to keep their tax cuts. Also, as much of a big spender GWB has been, most believe that JK will spend even more. How will JK pay for his programs? Will JK rescinding the tax cut to the wealthiest Americans and business owners slow the economy?

That said, JK has great momentum headed into Tues. and we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Oct 31st, 2004, 12:56 PM
Ignore the polls - they underpoll youth and minorities (who vote more for Democrats than Republicans).

In 2000, the final polls averaged Bush 49, Gore 45

Final results: Gore 48.5, Bush 48

Steff_forever
Oct 31st, 2004, 01:09 PM
Ignore the polls - they underpoll youth and minorities (who vote more for Democrats than Republicans).

In 2000, the final polls averaged Bush 49, Gore 45

Final results: Gore 48.5, Bush 48 thanks for keeping my hopes alive

CELEBRATE YOUTH !!!
(and plz go to the ballots).

Paldias
Oct 31st, 2004, 01:15 PM
To be short. The reason why Bush is still leading in the polls is because more than 50% of their population can't spit past their lip and have no idea what the fuck is going on.

Grachka
Oct 31st, 2004, 01:25 PM
Personally i wouldn't give a damn what the rest of the world thought about who i should choose as Scottish First Minister, and therefore I can't expect Americans to care either.

Has this happened in any other countries? e.g. when France went to the polls and promptly voted Le Pen into second place and into the run-off, certainly against the apparent wishes of the majority of the world? Did Austria listen to the protests from America and the rest when they went and elected Haider? Did the former Soviet countries give a damn what anyone else thought about their choices (often former Communist leaders)? The answer is no, because to the inhabitants of a country, nobody understands a country more than the people in it.

MisterQ
Oct 31st, 2004, 01:37 PM
Ignore the polls - they underpoll youth and minorities (who vote more for Democrats than Republicans).

In 2000, the final polls averaged Bush 49, Gore 45

Final results: Gore 48.5, Bush 48

I hope you are right. :yeah:

But I worry, because I sense that this generation of young people is more conservative than in the past.

Circe
Oct 31st, 2004, 01:45 PM
nothings up with americans, except that they vote in what they think is THEIR own self-interest. i'm fairly certain that voting for Bush is a terrible terrible mistake but it reflects america's increasing push towards christian conservativism. even if Kerry IS elected (which i don't think is going to happen) it will at best delay the move in this direction.

turt
Oct 31st, 2004, 02:14 PM
The americans should not be dictated the way they should vote by other countries people.

BUT

Obviously a lot of US citizens fail to realize it's in their own interest to kick Bush out of the White House. Not because the other countries don't want him anymore, but a lot of people (Americans or not) see the obvious reasons why he's a dangerous man. Strangely, it looks like people from outside USA are more informed about what's really going on there... I want to say "WAKE UP!" to all these fools!

Rocketta
Oct 31st, 2004, 03:00 PM
Personally i wouldn't give a damn what the rest of the world thought about who i should choose as Scottish First Minister, and therefore I can't expect Americans to care either.

Has this happened in any other countries? e.g. when France went to the polls and promptly voted Le Pen into second place and into the run-off, certainly against the apparent wishes of the majority of the world? Did Austria listen to the protests from America and the rest when they went and elected Haider? Did the former Soviet countries give a damn what anyone else thought about their choices (often former Communist leaders)? The answer is no, because to the inhabitants of a country, nobody understands a country more than the people in it.
Yeah I wonder if certain people on this board will actually hear you....some think they have all the answers for Americans and love to throw the word stupid around...like Americans give a flip that some young person somewhere else think they are stupid for voting what they believe....:rolleyes:

I understand the world doesn't like Bush.....but when is some in the world going to realize the only control they have is over their own country...so if you don't like the leadership of the USA work together and make your own country/countries the super power and show us how it's done...or move here become a citizen and vote how you like.

pcrtennis
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:04 PM
How come Bush is still leading the race when the rest of the whole world is against him or hoping Kerry will win?
Is it that there are too many uneducated ppl in the states or they are just as simple and narrow minded as George?
I really can't believe after so much pain this brad has caused the world, he's still as popular as he is in his home country. Is it just that Kerry is considered so incapable as president?


Because people in other parts of the world don't understand the real important issues facing the American people. This election is about Americans, not people from other countries around the world. What matters is the American opinion not other countries' opinions. You just don't understand American politics. I think it's funny that you actually think Americans care what people in France, Germany, Russia, Japan, Korea, Italy, Sweden or any other people think who should be the president of OUR country. :rolleyes:

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:06 PM
Because a select few, apparently the majority of us (American's) are stupid morons. That's why Bush is leading. Don't blame the Majority's choice for most of us, hell half of us cannot stand the douce bag. Some people are blind, and believe anything they hear.... also some people just think Bush = GOD!

Steff_forever
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:18 PM
Because a select few, apparently the majority of us (American's) are stupid morons. That's why Bush is leading. Don't blame the Majority's choice for most of us, hell half of us cannot stand the douce bag. Some people are blind, and believe anything they hear.... also some people just think Bush = GOD!
I just blame those who say to me that George Walker Bush's policy is making my life safer cause he fights the evil in the mid-east. His policy affects my life one day as it already has affected the victims and their acquaintences in Madrid ...

Many of those who vote for Bush give a damn shit what his policy does to people in other countries !

Sally Struthers
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:22 PM
I love it how people from other countries think they know what's best for us and think that they know what's going on in the country more than the people who live there. :rolleyes:

Navratilove
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:26 PM
I love it how people from other countries think they know what's best for us and think that they know what's going on in the country more than the people who live there. :rolleyes:

Why did you have to call me a troll for starting this thread? I had no bad intention at all. You're just a prime example of those narrowmindees I'm talkin about. Pure arrogance.

Navratilove
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:28 PM
So the majority of Americans don't give a fuck about making the lives of ppl in other countries difficult. As long as they can make sure their lives are safe even at the cost of others' lives, they are happy. Way to go, Yanks!

Tennis Fool
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:31 PM
1. It's hard to kick out the incumbant.

2. Dubya has more "personality" than Bush.

RVD
Oct 31st, 2004, 07:37 PM
How come Bush is still leading the race when the rest of the whole world is against him or hoping Kerry will win?
Is it that there are too many uneducated ppl in the states or they are just as simple and narrow minded as George?
I really can't believe after so much pain this brad has caused the world, he's still as popular as he is in his home country. Is it just that Kerry is considered so incapable as president?The reasons are complicated and many. But here's my take on the reasons...

I think because as a (so-called) Christian society, many Americans feel that they are chosen by God to spread their brand of freedom and religion, and they will kill you if they have to just to prove it. Just look at the reasons for the war in Iraq. So watch out. Your country might be next.

Listen, the fact that Bush says he was chosen by God to '...Bring freedom to Iraq,” tells you everything you need to know. You see, most in America have zero respect for views and beliefs that are different from theirs. We even do it to our own in this country!

Many feel that Bush was actually chosen by God.

There are some DUMB people in the country. Many with little to no formal education. And the government likes it that way. It's very easy to manipulate people when they're stupid, and don't know right from wrong.

Americans are very easy to scare.
In fact, I would venture that we are the easiest to scare into subservience than any other country or people. Up for debate of course.

As an aside...
Historically, this country was built on death, and destruction;lies and deceit. Many Americans still feel that might makes right, and Bush embraces those sentiments. Oh, and he loves his rich white supporters, and they love him. So they invest in messages that show him in a positive light. Even if they know he's a fool. And the right amount of money and advertising can get ANYONE elected President.

There are many other minor reasons as well, but these are my top 5 and are more than enough.

Steff_forever
Oct 31st, 2004, 08:11 PM
Please tell me why religion is now so dominant in the States. Why does it affect the policy and the voters towards Bush so much whereas many of you fear the deep religious islamic states. Isn't that a deep schizophrenia ?

Many Europeans just become aware that it is necessary to separate religion from policy. And we hope that moderate islamic states tend get more secular.
Why is the tendency so different beetween the Americans and Europeans in that point ?

Steam
Oct 31st, 2004, 08:23 PM
Doesn't really matter what is "up", Bush will win. The Republicans just have better and more experienced cheaters than the Democrats.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:39 PM
Please tell me why religion is now so dominant in the States. Why does it affect the policy and the voters towards Bush so much whereas many of you fear the deep religious islamic states. Isn't that a deep schizophrenia ?

Many Europeans just become aware that it is necessary to separate religion from policy. And we hope that moderate islamic states tend get more secular.
Why is the tendency so different beetween the Americans and Europeans in that point ?
Because they (they being those who are highly religious and vote Bush for that reason, yet say things about the middle east that would make them appear hypocritical) think that their religion is "better" and "right", perhaps? :p

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:45 PM
about Bush being better for their interests, how is losing most of the jobs the democrats created good? :confused:

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:46 PM
Because 99.9% of my fellow American's are really braindead. They have no way of thinking for themselves and they bought this "Terror based Administration" hook, line, and sinker.

Volcana
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:49 PM
Please tell me why religion is now so dominant in the States.RELIGION isn't more dominant. Militant CHRISTIANITY is more dominant. And it isn't 'now'. That's been the dominant stae of the country for most of it's history. 1965-1990 (or so) was an aberrant period.

'Seperation of Church and State'? Originally an anti-Catholic movement. Protestantism was so the norm that no one even THOUGHT to seperate THAT from state. Why was the civil rights movement successful to the limited extent that it was. Because it was an appeal to CHRIATIAN principals.

Why does it affect the policy and the voters towards Bush so much whereas many of you fear the deep religious islamic states. Isn't that a deep schizophrenia ?Ever hear of the Crusades? For a lot of people, this is about good vs evil. I think those people are whack jobs, but I'm related to quite a few of them, so I have to be polite.

njguido11
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:54 PM
How come Bush is still leading the race when the rest of the whole world is against him or hoping Kerry will win?
Is it that there are too many uneducated ppl in the states or they are just as simple and narrow minded as George?
I really can't believe after so much pain this brad has caused the world, he's still as popular as he is in his home country. Is it just that Kerry is considered so incapable as president?

Educated people do support George Bush . These idiotic statements only enforce why im glad im a republican. Its also ironic that a good portion of the democrat voters probably have absolutely no clue about any issues.

flyingmachine
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:56 PM
So the majority of Americans don't give a fuck about making the lives of ppl in other countries difficult. As long as they can make sure their lives are safe even at the cost of others' lives, they are happy. Way to go, Yanks!
This is one of the reasons why so many people hate Americans. :o

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:57 PM
Educated people do support George Bush . These idiotic statements only enforce why im glad im a republican. Its also ironic that a good portion of the democrat voters probably have absolutely no clue about any issues.

Are you sure you are 'educated'? After all, I don't see a . right after the sentence, instead it's a space then . Republican should be capitalized. Also Its should be It's.

Democrat voters this time around, have more of a grasp on the issues than Republicans to blindly vote their party members only.

Then again, you've proved your ignorance in several other threads before this. Hope you are happy voting a killer and his murdering wife on Tuesday. :wavey:

kabuki
Oct 31st, 2004, 09:58 PM
This is one of the reasons why so many people hate Americans. :o

Well, alrighty then.

flyingmachine
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:06 PM
RELIGION isn't more dominant. Militant CHRISTIANITY is more dominant. And it isn't 'now'. That's been the dominant stae of the country for most of it's history. 1965-1990 (or so) was an aberrant period.

'Seperation of Church and State'? Originally an anti-Catholic movement. Protestantism was so the norm that no one even THOUGHT to seperate THAT from state. Why was the civil rights movement successful to the limited extent that it was. Because it was an appeal to CHRIATIAN principals.

Ever hear of the Crusades? For a lot of people, this is about good vs evil. I think those people are whack jobs, but I'm related to quite a few of them, so I have to be polite.
Volcana: It sounds like these "Militant Christians" have many parrallels with the Militant Muslims. :scared:

njguido11
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:18 PM
Are you sure you are 'educated'? After all, I don't see a . right after the sentence, instead it's a space then . Republican should be capitalized. Also Its should be It's.

Democrat voters this time around, have more of a grasp on the issues than Republicans to blindly vote their party members only.

Then again, you've proved your ignorance in several other threads before this. Hope you are happy voting a killer and his murdering wife on Tuesday. :wavey:

I will be sure to punctuate properly for you in future threads.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:27 PM
I will be sure to punctuate properly for you in future threads.
Honestly, I can't believe you replied to that garbage.

That said, in your response you made as assumption about democratic voters. Replying to idiocy with idiocy doesn't make you any better :p

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:30 PM
Volcana: It sounds like these "Militant Christians" have many parrallels with the Militant Muslims. :scared:

i studied this...you'd be surprised how similar Islamic fundamentalists are with Bush and his Christian fundamentalism :o

mboyle
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:42 PM
Kerry is an arrogant prick. Bush is a lovable leader. Bush is also kick-ass at defending our country at all costs, regardless of what the world thinks. I, for one, like that attitude, and most people (60% to be exact,) agree with me. What people don't like about Bush is his record with the economy. That is the only reason he might lose, but the chances of his losing seem slim at this point.

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:44 PM
Kerry is an arrogant prick. Bush is a lovable leader. Bush is also kick-ass at defending our country at all costs, regardless of what the world thinks. I, for one, like that attitude, and most people (60% to be exact,) agree with me. What people don't like about Bush is his record with the economy. That is the only reason he might lose, but the chances of his losing seem slim at this point.

:scared:

i can't actually warrant that with a response...you BELIEVE that shit?! :eek:

flyingmachine
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:49 PM
:scared:

i can't actually warrant that with a response...you BELIEVE that shit?! :eek:
SJW: I think mboyle should get out of America and see the world especially to the Arab/thrid world.

mboyle
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:50 PM
Are you sure you are 'educated'? After all, I don't see a . right after the sentence, instead it's a space then . Republican should be capitalized. Also Its should be It's.

Democrat voters this time around, have more of a grasp on the issues than Republicans to blindly vote their party members only.

Then again, you've proved your ignorance in several other threads before this. Hope you are happy voting a killer and his murdering wife on Tuesday. :wavey:
1. Please don't criticize other people's mistakes if you can't even get through one post without splitting an infinitive. Also, you meant to say, "Democrat voters, this time around,".

2. Why would you say liberals have a better grasp on the issues? There is absolutely no evidence to support that. Only your liberal bias and deceptions suggest that.

3. Everyone with an opinion contrary to yours seems to "show his ignorance in several other threads." Why can't you even try to listen or respect the other side? What makes you so darn convinced that you are 100% correct 100% of the times?

4. I could turn that around and say that Kerry and Ms. Heinz are murderers, because they support abortion. Also, I don't understand why you label Bush a murderer. He has neither killed anyone nor ordered any innocent person be killed.:confused: If you consider invading Iraq murder, I would say that is biased hyperbole, but, then again, I think you know that.

mboyle
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:51 PM
:scared:

i can't actually warrant that with a response...you BELIEVE that shit?! :eek:What is it I believe that surprises you? btw, one warrants something to/for something.

mboyle
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:53 PM
i studied this...you'd be surprised how similar Islamic fundamentalists are with Bush and his Christian fundamentalism :o
Come on now! They are not similar at all! Bush doesn't support terrorizing countries at random. Regardless of what you think of the war in Iraq, to compare it to Madrid or 9/11 is very insulting.

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:54 PM
SJW: I think mboyle should get out of America and see the world especially to the Arab/thrid world.

i think he should stop regurgitating propaganda and start to think for himself.

or actually read impartial articles. ones that give you facts about what is happening due to Bush's policies, not what they wish is happening :o

Tennis Fool
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:54 PM
Most Europeans would be considered liberals in the US.

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:54 PM
What is it I believe that surprises you?

your location in relation to your comments.

mboyle
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:55 PM
i think he should stop regurgitating propaganda and start to think for himself.

or actually read impartial articles. ones that give you facts about what is happening due to Bush's policies, not what they wish is happening :o
Because my thinking is different than yours, my information is biased?:confused: Why are so many liberals on this board so self-righteous?

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 10:59 PM
Come on now! They are not similar at all! Bush doesn't support terrorizing countries at random. Regardless of what you think of the war in Iraq, to compare it to Madrid or 9/11 is very insulting.

oh PLEASE, why don't you read what i said and if you don't understand, SAY you don't understand instead of making yourself look foolish :rolleyes:

Fundamentalism (100%)
In general, a description of those who return to what they believe to be the fundamental truths and practices of a religion. It can thus be applied to this attitude in all religions

Bush is a Christian fundamentalist
he is fighting Islamic fundamentalism...

Tennis Fool
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:00 PM
your location in relation to your comments.
Funny. The wealthy folks I know who live in Mass are Protestant and Republicans.

Hulet
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:00 PM
Kerry is an arrogant prick. Bush is a lovable leader. Bush is also kick-ass at defending our country at all costs, regardless of what the world thinks. I, for one, like that attitude, and most people (60% to be exact,) agree with me. What people don't like about Bush is his record with the economy. That is the only reason he might lose, but the chances of his losing seem slim at this point.
If we had a timemachine, flew back to the early 1930's Germany and asked an average German why he is compelled to vote for the National Socialists, his answers will be pretty much the same:
"The Bolsheviks are arrogant pricks. Hitler is a lovable leader. With all his pet dogs and cute mustache. Hitler is also kick-ass at defending our country at ALL COST, regardless of what the world thinks. Most pure-blooded Germans believe in the Fuhrer."

My point: Sometimes it's not such a bad idea to consider what the outside world thinks about your leader.

Steff_forever
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:00 PM
RELIGION isn't more dominant. Militant CHRISTIANITY is more dominant. And it isn't 'now'. That's been the dominant stae of the country for most of it's history. 1965-1990 (or so) was an aberrant period.

'Seperation of Church and State'? Originally an anti-Catholic movement. Protestantism was so the norm that no one even THOUGHT to seperate THAT from state. Why was the civil rights movement successful to the limited extent that it was. Because it was an appeal to CHRIATIAN principals.

Ever hear of the Crusades? For a lot of people, this is about good vs evil. I think those people are whack jobs, but I'm related to quite a few of them, so I have to be polite.
so it's like all time in history. Some leaders play with the fears of many ...
(may it be Bush, Bin Laden, Haider, E. Honnecker, Putin, and on and on)

nothing has changed ...

Lee-Waters' Boy
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:01 PM
i love it when mboyle shows up in these kinds of threads and makes you all look like the fools that you are :worship:

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:02 PM
Because my thinking is different than yours, my information is biased?:confused: Why are so many liberals on this board so self-righteous?

not because your thinking is different. it's because if you DID know the full story of what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, you wouldn't have said what you said.

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:04 PM
i love it when mboyle shows up in these kinds of threads and makes you all look like the fools that you are :worship:

make no mistake...i love it when people like mboyle express their issues on such things, it makes me feel good that i actually take the initiative and find out the truth before i form my opinion.

flyingmachine
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:05 PM
i think he should stop regurgitating propaganda and start to think for himself.

or actually read impartial articles. ones that give you facts about what is happening due to Bush's policies, not what they wish is happening :o
SJW: However we explain it to him including the mighty debater Volcana he will not listern to us. He thinks all these things we tell him about is faults. The only way he''s going to change all that is by experience it himself. The effect of America foreign policies on other people. The fact is these policies effect people way beyond America. Unless he experience it from the other end he's attitude will not change.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:07 PM
Kerry is an arrogant prick. Bush is a lovable leader. Bush is also kick-ass at defending our country at all costs, regardless of what the world thinks. I, for one, like that attitude, and most people (60% to be exact,) agree with me. What people don't like about Bush is his record with the economy. That is the only reason he might lose, but the chances of his losing seem slim at this point.
60%, to be exact? And where, pray tell, are you pulling that number from?

I'm not sure why you consider "arrogant prick" and "lovable leader" to be mutually exclusive traits. They are not. I would imagine that many a great leader was also an "arrogant prick". And although I don't consider Bush a great leader, you do, so I'll use him as an example. He's as much of an "arrogant prick" as Kerry seems to be.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:09 PM
SJW: I think mboyle should get out of America and see the world especially to the Arab/thrid world.

I've always been of that opinion. He's certainly not unintelligent. He's just somewhat narrow minded and sheltered. With time and experience, that can change. Or it can just get worse.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:12 PM
1. Please don't criticize other people's mistakes if you can't even get through one post without splitting an infinitive. Also, you meant to say, "Democrat voters, this time around,".

Hee hee! I was waiting for somebody to pick errors out of her post :p

2. Why would you say liberals have a better grasp on the issues? There is absolutely no evidence to support that. Only your liberal bias and deceptions suggest that.

Probably for the same reason that people say the same about republicans. Which is to say, to hear themselves type and get their point across without feeling the need to have any factual basis behind their points.

3. Everyone with an opinion contrary to yours seems to "show his ignorance in several other threads." Why can't you even try to listen or respect the other side? What makes you so darn convinced that you are 100% correct 100% of the times?

:yeah:

SJW
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:16 PM
SJW: However we explain it to him including the mighty debater Volcana he will not listern to us. He thinks all these things we tell him about is faults. The only way he''s going to change all that is by experience it himself. The effect of America foreign policies on other people. The fact is these policies effect people way beyond America. Unless he experience it from the other end he's attitude will not change.

oh believe me i know. and will he experience these things? probably not. don't wanna get into personal business or anything, but when you accept lies instead of fighting for the truth, then i have no sympathy. when you have no interest in thinking for yourself, then i have no sympathy.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:16 PM
Because my thinking is different than yours, my information is biased?:confused: Why are so many liberals on this board so self-righteous?

Why are so many republicans on this board self righteous? The only reason that the liberals on this board seem louder and more obnoxious is that they are more numerous. I have read boards that are primarily republican just to see the difference, and I can honestly tell you that those people are no better behaved.

I don't defend liberals who are closed minded (which is sort of ironic in itself, but whatever) anymore than I do republicans who are the same. The kind of people who are convinced that their way is right and simply can't understand that their way may be right for them but that it isn't right for everybody, and that just because somebody disagrees with them they aren't necessarily a horrible person.... frustrate me.

flyingmachine
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:18 PM
I've always been of that opinion. He's certainly not unintelligent. He's just somewhat narrow minded and sheltered. With time and experience, that can change. Or it can just get worse.
It will depends on him. What kind personality he is and what kind of experience he had.
Like you I think he is quite intelligent but lacks the varity of experience which many "white" Americans do lack of and which is needed to understand these complex things. These things are afterall very complex and does not have one answear to solve the problem or at times no solution could be found.

Crazy Canuck
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:19 PM
i love it when mboyle shows up in these kinds of threads and makes you all look like the fools that you are :worship:

While I think that it's nice that mboyle makes a point of voicing opinions that aren't necessarily popular around here, I fail to see where he's made anybody look foolish.

This? Is what I'm talking about. "You don't agree with me, thus you are dumb". It's the same line of thinking that Bacardi has been spitting out for months. You're no better than her.

Sally Struthers
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:31 PM
This? Is what I'm talking about. "You don't agree with me, thus you are dumb". It's the same line of thinking that Bacardi has been spitting out for months. You're no better than her.
:worship:

Sally predicts a board crash Tuesday night regardless of who wins :lol:

flyingmachine
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:33 PM
:worship:

Sally predicts a board crash Tuesday night regardless of who wins :lol:
:lol: This will happen for sure. :devil: ;)

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:51 PM
It might not be the worst thing in the world for Bush to win. Hell it might end the USA for good. Those of us that live in rural places will ultimately be safer than the larger cities. Because lets face it, if Bush gets it, it's open hunting season on the USA. To me a country that has too much power, like we in the US think we have... is like a form of self destruction. I also wouldn't be so shocked to see a terrorist attack on Election Day. Bush clearly has his guard down, he's got his hands full with this election. I just wish the terrorists would understand, not all of us like Bush and his policies. Next time if they want to go after someone, why not go straight for the White House.

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:53 PM
1. Please don't criticize other people's mistakes if you can't even get through one post without splitting an infinitive. Also, you meant to say, "Democrat voters, this time around,".

2. Why would you say liberals have a better grasp on the issues? There is absolutely no evidence to support that. Only your liberal bias and deceptions suggest that.

3. Everyone with an opinion contrary to yours seems to "show his ignorance in several other threads." Why can't you even try to listen or respect the other side? What makes you so darn convinced that you are 100% correct 100% of the times?

4. I could turn that around and say that Kerry and Ms. Heinz are murderers, because they support abortion. Also, I don't understand why you label Bush a murderer. He has neither killed anyone nor ordered any innocent person be killed.:confused: If you consider invading Iraq murder, I would say that is biased hyperbole, but, then again, I think you know that.


Hey hey hey, Kiddie Fuck, glad to see you are back. Listen Tike, since you seem to forget... You are under 18, your opinion means JACKSHIT. Understand that yet?

Bush hasn't killed anyone, what about our 1000+ troops and the innocent Iraqi's that have been murdered by his lude, decision. A decision based on the fact there were NO WEAPONS of Mass Destruction. Your presidential choice is a COWARD. If he had any real balls to him, instead of inventing this idea in his head that Saddam had WMD, he would have gone after a country that actually has them. George Bush, the Candidate with No Balls!

Sally Struthers
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:55 PM
It might not be the worst thing in the world for Bush to win. Hell it might end the USA for good. Those of us that live in rural places will ultimately be safer than the larger cities. Because lets face it, if Bush gets it, it's open hunting season on the USA. To me a country that has too much power, like we in the US think we have... is like a form of self destruction. I also wouldn't be so shocked to see a terrorist attack on Election Day. Bush clearly has his guard down, he's got his hands full with this election. I just wish the terrorists would understand, not all of us like Bush and his policies. Next time if they want to go after someone, why not go straight for the White House.

Bacardi, Sally doesn't dislike you but this is absolutely crazy. You're rationalizing terrorism.

For the record, Sally doesn't endorse either candidate :lol:

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:57 PM
60%, to be exact? And where, pray tell, are you pulling that number from?



Probably from FOX NEWS, isn't that after all where all hypocrites and right wing Bush supporters get all their information. From a channel owned by Clear Channel Communications, which is owned/run by the Bush family?

Bacardi
Oct 31st, 2004, 11:59 PM
Bacardi, Sally doesn't dislike you but this is absolutely crazy. You're rationalizing terrorism.

For the record, Sally doesn't endorse either candidate :lol:


Well the way I've started to see it is this, if the Majority of the USA wants to vote for Bush, and likes him. Then they're going to deserve whatever shit gets dumped on them. I didn't like 9/11, and I cried on that day.... But we didn't know much about Bush and his policies during the 2000 elections. This time we have all the facts, they are out on the table. And if those fools vote that moron in again. It's time to just either move out of the country (which is the best idea by far) or I'd get out of any large cities. Because I'd be willing to bet ANYTHING if he's elected again there's going to be a shitload of attacks starting with Election day.

jacobruiz
Nov 1st, 2004, 12:05 AM
oh believe me i know. and will he experience these things? probably not. don't wanna get into personal business or anything, but when you accept lies instead of fighting for the truth, then i have no sympathy. when you have no interest in thinking for yourself, then i have no sympathy.
There are unfortunately, many people in the U.S. like mboyle. Their closed- mindedness, their total lack of empathy with anyone of a different background or culture is repulsive to me. They confuse arrogance with patriotism and bullying with bravery. And, to add to it, the government encourages this type of thinking.

I lived in Europe for six years and found the people there much more informed about politics and world affairs than average Americans. This ignorance of the facts in the States is disturbing and the arrogance and downright meanness of the religious right and other right-wing groups in the U.S. is scary.

I'm dying to know who is going to be leading this country for the next four years - it is so incredibly important!!

SWVWlover
Nov 1st, 2004, 12:14 AM
to answer the original question:

Because Americans are smart and they want to protect our country by voting for someone who will not let terrorists walk all over us. At least Republicans think that.

Democrats, however, want USA to crumble. They are so anti-American, it isn't even funny. They want America to be attacked. I don't like thinking about America being attacked, and I know it won't happen. But stupid Democrats, like Bacardi, are just wanting us to be attacked. They can't wait, actually. I think CNN will be very happy if we get attacked.

Bacardi
Nov 1st, 2004, 12:21 AM
:lol: Hey, vote for Bush. Who says I'm voting for Kerry. After all Bush says he can keep us safe. With Bush there are no more terrorist attacks. In fact, Bush can protect all the great USA just with his smirk. He's showed Iraq just what he's made of, he showed Bin Laden (oops, scratch that) just what he can do.... Lets give him 4 more years to show Iran and North Korea what he can do. Remember, Bush is God, he can protect us all. :bowdown:

jacobruiz
Nov 1st, 2004, 12:36 AM
to answer the original question:

Because Americans are smart and they want to protect our country by voting for someone who will not let terrorists walk all over us. At least Republicans think that.

Democrats, however, want USA to crumble. They are so anti-American, it isn't even funny. They want America to be attacked. I don't like thinking about America being attacked, and I know it won't happen. But stupid Democrats, like Bacardi, are just wanting us to be attacked. They can't wait, actually. I think CNN will be very happy if we get attacked.
:rolleyes:

Steam
Nov 1st, 2004, 12:39 AM
Bush is a lovable leader.
Uh

Uh

Uh

Uh

Yeah, that is even close to the truth. Personally, I can't think of a worse leader in my lifetime. And lovable? No.

RVD
Nov 1st, 2004, 12:59 AM
GOD I LOVE THIS!! :cool:
Religion and politics...! Nasty stuff that.

Okay look people...
Bush is like forest Bump opening a (Pandora's) box of candy.
'He never knew what he was going to get 'til he dropped a bomb in someone's back yard.'

Conservatives would have you believe that he knew what he was doing and that it was moral. But the fact is, HE DIDN'T know, nor care. So long as those who got him 'selected' were happy and made richer. Even today, his own people stated that he had NO war plan, nor exit plan for Iraq.
He didn't secure sensitive military installations (nor cultural for that matter---remember the raiding of the museum?). He didn't even think it possible that what his father warned him could happen, would happen. AND THIS in a book written by his (biological) father. The CIA warned him. His national the previous National Security advisor warned him. The United Nations briefed and warned him of the instability of war in that region. And now he wants 4 more years?
And if all that weren't enough, the guy he supposedly set out to kill (Osama Bin Laden) makes a movie and thumbs his nose at America. Yes, this is the very same man who said ..."He's no longer relevant. Look, I just don't worry about him anymore."

Yeah, okay. Those who vote for this a**-wipe deserve what they get if he wins.

BUT, the ones we should really call to task AND vote out of office (after this 4-year catastrophe is over with) are our Senate & House representatives.

What a bunch of spineless morons! How could they possible think that a former druggie/alcoholic could lead this country? It's amazing! It's checks and balances that ultimately failed the American people. Because our representatives handed this imbecile the golden key to wage war. So though I feel that Bush is a brainless boob that should be 86'd, I feel more betrayed to a far greater degree by the Senate (Kerry & Edwards included).

They did NOT listen to folks like Barbara Lee (and there was only one other guy, whose name I can't remember at the moment), who said point blank, that giving one man sole authority is bad policy. And were they ever right!

Bush gives two shits about no one. For Christ sakes, just look at my signature! And isn't it funny how not one conservative/Republican has yet commented on the blatant arrogance of that statement? Yet Dems are called dumb and stupid?
If Kerry had made that statement, I wonder what Republicans would be saying today?

One final question for all the Bush supporters out there...

If you so love this man and what he stands for (enough to vote for him), WHY DON'T YOU JOIN HIS MILITARY! I hear they have a ton of body bags left to fill. :devil:

RVD
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:10 AM
As a result of George Bush's actions America is much better off in the issue of Bin Laden. He might not be dead but before when he could plan big attacks killing thousands of people, now he can only sit in a hole somwehere making home videos.
He has lost over 3/4's of his men because of Bush and has gone from the attacker to the retreater, he is the one hiding from America, not the other way around. America, and Bush took the initiative and although they didn't find him they greatly diminished Bin Laden's forces and as a result he is basically unable to stand any threat to America.JEEEESUS CHRIIIST!!!! Do you even know what terrorist cells are, and how they operate?!!!!! Do you honestly believe that Bin Laden is weaker?!!! Incidentally, he looked damn healthy on that video to me. Not like he was living in a cave at all!

I'll say this just once, and you can go look for it yourself. YOU CANNOT WIN A WAR AGAINST TERRORISM! IT IS TOO PERVASIVE!

And if Bush has done anything, it's mobilized, motivated, and strengthened them. In fact, Bush has given ALL terrorists single-minded purpose.
Like someone said earlier, I'm seriously considering taking my family out of the metropolitan area until after the election.

Rocketta
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:11 AM
how original this thread turns into why people should or shouldn't vote for Bush....:rolleyes:

People are individuals and do not think the same they will do what "they" think is right not what I think or you think....

If you think people are going to do what they think is best for you instead of what is best for themselves you're wrong.

Can we just say there are stupid people in America and there are stupid people, <insert your own country> and move on.....you want to have a say in American politics move here....if you don't want to do that then make your own country so fierce that what Americans want, do, don't want, don't do will have little affect on you but I'll tell you what will never happen and that's Americans making their decisions based on what "you" want..

Crazy Canuck
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:30 AM
Hey hey hey, Kiddie Fuck, glad to see you are back. Listen Tike, since you seem to forget... You are under 18, your opinion means JACKSHIT. Understand that yet?


I disagree with this. If he raises a point it shouldn't be ignored simply because he's not voting age yet. Especially when you consider the number of people of voting age who have voted roughly as many times as he has.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:34 AM
Probably from FOX NEWS, isn't that after all where all hypocrites and right wing Bush supporters get all their information. From a channel owned by Clear Channel Communications, which is owned/run by the Bush family?

I don't get Fox News!

Crazy Canuck
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:36 AM
to answer the original question:

Because Americans are smart and they want to protect our country by voting for someone who will not let terrorists walk all over us. At least Republicans think that.

Democrats, however, want USA to crumble. They are so anti-American, it isn't even funny. They want America to be attacked. I don't like thinking about America being attacked, and I know it won't happen. But stupid Democrats, like Bacardi, are just wanting us to be attacked. They can't wait, actually. I think CNN will be very happy if we get attacked.

Uh? I don't even know what to say to this.

Crazy Canuck
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:36 AM
:rolleyes:
That's about all I could come up with too :o

ptkten
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:50 AM
I want to make a couple of points here, because it seems like everyone has extreme views and can't be rational in this thread.

First, I agree with the people who say it is much more difficult to understand why people in a particular country vote the way they do if they don't live there. There are many nuances that go along with why you vote for a particular candidate. I don't pretend to know everything about the candidates in other countries. While I can make an educated guess as to who I would support, I won't try and say that my opinion holds more weight than someone who actually lives there.

Second, Republicans are not all evil, stupid people. While I don't agree with their policies, name calling and petty arguments are not helpful in looking at the issues. I do find their close relationship with Christianity dangerous, but I don't feel that it's in any way similar to the Muslim fundamentalism that's occurring. The majority of Republicans and Christian Americans are very tolerant of other people's beliefs.

Third, the anti-American sentiment that occurs on this board makes me laugh. You may disagree with some of the people in America's politics but that doesn't make us all evil people. I didn't go around bashing France, Netherlands, Austria, and Germany when people elected into office far right or far left candidates.

People on this board tend to over-simplify things to this partisan rhetoric that never gets things solved nor leads to any real discussion. I don't like George W. Bush's policies, but I don't think he's a mass murderer along the likes of Hitler and Hussein as some people want you to believe.

That all being said, I think that the momentum is toward Kerry at the moment, and that if I had to bet today, I think Kerry will win but if people vote for Bush it's because they think he'll keep them safe and not waver in his beliefs.

harloo
Nov 1st, 2004, 06:27 AM
to answer the original question:

Because Americans are smart and they want to protect our country by voting for someone who will not let terrorists walk all over us. At least Republicans think that.

Democrats, however, want USA to crumble. They are so anti-American, it isn't even funny. They want America to be attacked. I don't like thinking about America being attacked, and I know it won't happen. But stupid Democrats, like Bacardi, are just wanting us to be attacked. They can't wait, actually. I think CNN will be very happy if we get attacked.
This is the mindset that Bush is encouraging which undermines his campaign our democracy. I have heard numerous times Bush implying that if Kerry were to win we would be unsafe which is far from the truth.

Regardless of who is in office their is always a possibility of an attack after the failure of our past leaders(democrat and republican) to take terrorism seriously.

So why do some Americans vote for Bush?

Well, you asked the question so I will give you the an honest answer. Politicians hire spinsters to get their message out and build an image for their candidate. Most Americans are too busy to read and understand some of the policies that are being implemented so they get most of their sound bites through talk tv, or radio which is very powerful. It's almost like you have cults formed on each side of the debate with no middle ground when it comes to politicians.

Some people will defend everything Bush regardless if he has done as bad job as long as he cuts their taxes, and talk like a cowboy about terrorism. It doesn't even matter if he cannot express himself properly, just as long as he seems like a guy you can eat barbecue with.

Some people will defend everything Kerry because well , he is a democrat. He has a message even though he talks in circles. I really am not fond of Kerry, and I wish their was an alternative but he is the official candidate who can unseat Bush.

Other countries wishing Kerry would win will not have any affect on the election. For the most part, Americans don't like to be told what to do at the polls and that is our right and freedom. I say Kerry is the best option because if he gets in and messes up he can be voted out. With Bush their will be four more years of mistakes that future generations will have to pay for.




For the most part, Bush operates on fear. He has said many tim

tfannis
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:05 AM
I understand why most Americans say we (non-Americans) can't possible know what's good for them, since we're not living in America....

BUT..

Did it ever occur to you that America invades other countries, killing their inhabitants, bombing their cities? America is a super power, with WMD...and it really matters to the WHOLE WORLD who will lead that country. If Bush says he wants to invade country X, nobody can stop him...and that's just a very scary thought :tape: Whatever America desides...many foreign countries will feel the consequences too (Madrid --> Spain --> ally US).

As for Osama Bin Laden being weaker now :lol:
There will always be terrorism, it can't be beaten. Expect more 9/11 to come...
Invading Iraq was a next step to more hatred towards western countries and to a new major attack of the muslim fundamentalists.

Halardfan
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:51 AM
America is the most powerful country in the world, and its choice, particularly this time around, will have a fundemental affect on my country, which is the USA's chief ally/sidekick.

I believe every day that Bush is in power makes the world less safe, and more divided, his brand of Christian fundementalism is the most stupid way to fight Islamic fundementalism...so its only natural that we non-Americans have strong opinions, and are enititled to put them forward.

Whether anyone listens is up to them. But remember that even America needs friends.

I also think it would be better for America if Kerry wins, its a win-win thing.

jelena4me
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:17 AM
Terrorism my arse, Bush and the US cause all the terrorism with their foreign policies.
Its easy for Bush to say hes a great fighter of terrorism when all the Arabs hate him .

Do the guys in the US actually wonder WHY 9/11 happened? its not for some minor reason I can assure you. In the UK we dont know too much about Kerry, but in a head to head with the ridiculous fundamentalist Bush its no contest.

And the issue is important to the rest of the world because the US portrays themselves as a champion of democracy(!) and bully boys there way over everyone else. Other countries dont do this, so its not quite as important to us who their president is.

For god sake vote for Kerry.

SJW
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:32 AM
I understand why most Americans say we (non-Americans) can't possible know what's good for them, since we're not living in America....

BUT..

Did it ever occur to you that America invades other countries, killing their inhabitants, bombing their cities? America is a super power, with WMD...and it really matters to the WHOLE WORLD who will lead that country. If Bush says he wants to invade country X, nobody can stop him...and that's just a very scary thought :tape: Whatever America desides...many foreign countries will feel the consequences too (Madrid --> Spain --> ally US).

As for Osama Bin Laden being weaker now :lol:
There will always be terrorism, it can't be beaten. Expect more 9/11 to come...
Invading Iraq was a next step to more hatred towards western countries and to a new major attack of the muslim fundamentalists.

brilliant post :worship:

JUST because some people aren't American citizens, doesn't mean this election won't affect us :rolleyes: in fact, it DOES, because whether Bush decides to attack anymore countries determines how many of OUR armed forces die for him :rolleyes: hell yea we may not be American, but why are we fighting his battles for him? :confused: i think it was something like 80% of British people (don't quote me on that) are AGAINST the wars! imagine that, in a country as conservative as England, most people dislike a Republican's policy :scratch: and you know why? our government doesn't completely control our media and free speech is much more common here than in the US :o we have documentaries that show us the dark side of Bush's "liberation" of Iraq and Afghanistan, how most people are much WORSE off because they don't have a strong government to be scared of...there's anarchy in most places (hence why our soldiers are being killed), and as for making it safe for the women there, WHATEVER! the women are being raped and the children being beaten by the soldiers...

so hmm...apparently this election isn't any of our business but those with a conscience and a heart probably think much differently :cool:

jelena4me
Nov 1st, 2004, 09:54 AM
Ayla Y, you cant bring down any world leader because his actions are "unjust". Where does that sort of authority come from, and who decides what is "unjust"?

So if Bin Laden was an elected leader and he thought that Bush was acting "unjustly" , its okay for him to come in and take Bush out?

I dont think youd like that any more than many Iraqi people do.

SJW
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:38 PM
You are not fighting his battle for him. As an ally of the USA, Britain and alot of other countries fight WITH the USA, I don't think some people get that.
Your country is just as much part of the war as the USA & Bush, you have agreed and put in the stand that Saddam's actions were unjust and that he had to be brought down.

er no. our governments are allies, the majority of people didn't want to be a part of the war.

jacobruiz
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:50 PM
how original this thread turns into why people should or shouldn't vote for Bush....:rolleyes:

People are individuals and do not think the same they will do what "they" think is right not what I think or you think....

If you think people are going to do what they think is best for you instead of what is best for themselves you're wrong.

Can we just say there are stupid people in America and there are stupid people, <insert your own country> and move on.....you want to have a say in American politics move here....if you don't want to do that then make your own country so fierce that what Americans want, do, don't want, don't do will have little affect on you but I'll tell you what will never happen and that's Americans making their decisions based on what "you" want..Rocketta, I know you are a well-informed and intelligent poster and I can't understand why you seem to take offense to non-Americans voicing their opinions on who they would like to win the Presidential election.

The President of the United States is the MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD!!! His actions and policies affect the whole world, not just the U.S.
When his decisions cause such intense hatred in the Muslim community, for example, the resulting increase in Muslim fanatics turning to terrorism affects the safety of the rest of the world as well as the U.S.

When Bush first became President, one of the first things he did was to stop the funding of humanitarian groups in South and central America who
gave birth control information to poor women there. He also withdrew from the Kyoto Treaty, which is an international anti-pollution treaty (pollution controls hurt big international corporations), and refused to sign a nuclear weapon non-poliferation treaty with Russia and other countries.

These are only a few examples but I'm sure you can understand why the rest of the world has a stake in this election!

alfajeffster
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:51 PM
i studied this...you'd be surprised how similar Islamic fundamentalists are with Bush and his Christian fundamentalism :o
And how many oak trees are there in palestine?

!<blocparty>!
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:51 PM
Sadam was thought to have weapons of mass destruction ... he violated the UN's orders when he ignored their order for his to disarm ..... he was a ruthless leader and had to be brought down, there is noway anyone can say otherwise. The way he treated his people was terrible, and he was though to be a threat to the world.
Just because they didn't find any of these weapons does not mean the war was unjustified.

Fair enough, Saddam was cruel and treated his people badly. But what I cannot understand is why do America give two shits about the people of Iraq? They spent billions bombing it to free the people of this dictator? Oh yeah, Saddam was a "threat" with no found W of MD. It had nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11, and they have never attacked the US.

Right, OK, America wanted to help Iraq and the poor people there, what about Africa? The millions of starving people in ethiopia/the Sahel? Why not help them?

kabuki
Nov 1st, 2004, 01:55 PM
Because my thinking is different than yours, my information is biased?:confused: Why are so many liberals on this board so self-righteous?

Liberals certainly haven't cornered that market, my conservative friend.

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:01 PM
Sadam was thought to have weapons of mass destruction ... he violated the UN's orders when he ignored their order for his to disarm ..... he was a ruthless leader and had to be brought down, there is noway anyone can say otherwise. The way he treated his people was terrible, and he was though to be a threat to the world.
Just because they didn't find any of these weapons does not mean the war was unjustified. Many Bush-voters don't accept our dissence and connect the fight against terrorists with the war against undemocratic countries. That's indoctrination.
The war was unjusified and there are many reasons why.
1. no WMD found
2. no links between radical religious terrorist groups and secular totalitarian state
3. killing people with nerve gas took place more than 10 years ago: so why the attac in March 2003 ?
4. Hussein a terrorist ? A dictator, yes. But weakend the years before the war.
5. Hussein out of control ? Yes, out of control on George's nose !
6. rebuilding democracy in the Mid East: with a crusade-like war ? really perfect start !
7. The way to make the ME safer ? Ask the Israelis and Palestinians if they feel safer now after Bush and Sharon took over from Clinton and Netanjahu/Rabin.
8. unifying the Americans or the Americans with their allies ? The opposite took place. Most US allied administrations lead people who disagree with the war-policy of their leaders. A feeling of estrangement answered with separation from the US policy - no necessary cooperation to fight against many and small radical groups.
And I guess many Americans feel like they have walked away from each other since George Walker polarized the opinions.
9. Terrorist weakened since occupation of the Iraq ? How many peolpe you think back the actions of the terrorists now and before the war in the ME ?
10. Afghanistan a prototype for Iraq and Iran ? Stability in Afghanistan & Pakistan only where troops are based. Hot spots in huge areas of instability.

No Ayla. Y.
This world won't work better together in 4 more years of Bush.

Fingon
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:03 PM
Are you sure you are 'educated'? After all, I don't see a . right after the sentence, instead it's a space then . Republican should be capitalized. Also Its should be It's.

Democrat voters this time around, have more of a grasp on the issues than Republicans to blindly vote their party members only.

Then again, you've proved your ignorance in several other threads before this. Hope you are happy voting a killer and his murdering wife on Tuesday. I am not american so I don't vote,
But if I was and I had doubts, seeing that people like this is against Bush would make me Bush has something good after all.

kabuki
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:03 PM
Fair enough, Saddam was cruel and treated his people badly. But what I cannot understand is why do America give two shits about the people of Iraq? They spent billions bombing it to free the people of this dictator? Oh yeah, Saddam was a "threat" with no found W of MD. It had nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11, and they have never attacked the US.

Right, OK, America wanted to help Iraq and the poor people there, what about Africa? The millions of starving people in ethiopia/the Sahel? Why not help them?

I think even the most conservative poster has to realize that historically, US foreign policy has been inconsistent, to put it nicely.

gentenaire
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:12 PM
Sadam was thought to have weapons of mass destruction ... he violated the UN's orders when he ignored their order for his to disarm ..... he was a ruthless leader and had to be brought down, there is noway anyone can say otherwise. The way he treated his people was terrible, and he was though to be a threat to the world.
Just because they didn't find any of these weapons does not mean the war was unjustified.

Hey, if you want to form an opinion on Iraqi politics and Saddam's failure as a leader, then you should have moved to Iraq and voted there. After all, if you don't live in the country, you're not allowed to voice your opinion about its politics. At least, that's what some people in this thread have said.

SJW
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:13 PM
Hey, if you want to form an opinion on Iraqi politics and Saddam's failure as a leader, then you should have moved to Iraq and voted there. After all, if you don't live in the country, you're not allowed to voice your opinion about its politics. At least, that's what some people in this thread have said.

my god i swear i've been thinking the same thing :worship:

brilliant, post again :p

Cariaoke
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:23 PM
Firstly, I, as a proud American despite the leadership, take serious offense to the general American public being referred to as "stupid".

Reading through the thread, it amazes me how so few of you are willing to separate the government from the people living under it yet you'd be the first to cry "foul" if your "utopian" government decided to do something stupid and people came down on you, as an individual, for it.

The anti-Americanism is quite disheartening but I'm quite used to it. You're the same ones asking about American "rationality" but you can't be rational enough to separate the people from the establishment. Now who's stupid?

Back to the issue at hand, I think the thing with Republicans is that they're stubborn. They have to hold onto the lie that weapons were there or that Saddam was so evil that he needed to be brought down, yada, yada, yada. Whatever SHRED they can hold onto to justify their vote. It's rather sad because if this was Clinton... If he had lied like Bush did, killed over 1000 of our troops, wounded nearly 10,000, killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and let's not forget the coalition of the weak and easily influenced casualties, he'd be up for impeachment. But yanno, it's Bush so he gets the benefit of the doubt. This is why they drive their cars with the "W" on it because they're EMBARRASSED to actually have his entire name on their cars. It's inconspicuous that way.

This is a man who can't even explain what tribal sovereignty means. "it's tribal and it's sovereign."

Sorry, but, I kinda want my president to be smarter than I am. Maybe that's asking too much...

We already have voter fraud in Florida, Nevada and Ohio. Pollers telling black voters that their registrations are invalid. People in Nevada throwing out democrats' registration forms.

Then on top of it, the nerve to question Kerry's service in Vietnam when Bush didn't even SERVE... is just... amazing.

Yet, people are still proud to be Republican. I don't get it...

I early voted on Thursday for Kerry. I hope he wins tomorrow. But I'm sure you hardcore bashers will find something else to hate about the big bad wolf. Have fun, kiddies.

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:42 PM
Firstly, I, as a proud American despite the leadership, take serious offense to the general American public being referred to as "stupid".

Reading through the thread, it amazes me how so few of you are willing to separate the government from the people living under it yet you'd be the first to cry "foul" if your "utopian" government decided to do something stupid and people came down on you, as an individual, for it.

The anti-Americanism is quite disheartening but I'm quite used to it. You're the same ones asking about American "rationality" but you can't be rational enough to separate the people from the establishment. Now who's stupid? You are right. If I would be an American - and there are many good reasons to be - I would feel offended by many of the upper posts, too.
A land who enables most of the best scientists on the world to do a better job can be proud of its intelligence.
But what I am really afraid of is the tendency of some people to bring it all down to their own (religious) safety in a country that is so multi-cultural and has so many ways of living. No more distinction, just following the one who shouts loudest.

I just feel like I'm a terrorist as I can't follow Bush's argumentation cause he said everyone who isn't with his policy ('with us') is with the terrorists. Thank you, sir.

cheesestix
Nov 1st, 2004, 02:46 PM
Terrorism my arse, Bush and the US cause all the terrorism with their foreign policies.
Its easy for Bush to say hes a great fighter of terrorism when all the Arabs hate him .

Do the guys in the US actually wonder WHY 9/11 happened? its not for some minor reason I can assure you. In the UK we dont know too much about Kerry, but in a head to head with the ridiculous fundamentalist Bush its no contest.

And the issue is important to the rest of the world because the US portrays themselves as a champion of democracy(!) and bully boys there way over everyone else. Other countries dont do this, so its not quite as important to us who their president is.

For god sake vote for Kerry.

Sorry, but you are CLUELESS!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen up, ALL OF THIS HAPPENED ON BILL CLINTON'S WATCH:

* 1993 WTC Bombing (their intent was the same as 9/11...to bring down the WTC)
* Bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia
* USS Cole Bombing
* Bombing of 2 US Embassies in Africa

Did I leave anything out?

ALL of this happened on Clinton's watch, so it's ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS to blame everything on Bush! As you can see, Islamic terrorists were striking America REPEATEDLY on Clinton's watch. (Yet he never really did much about it.)

Tell me what Bush did in his first 8 months as president that brought about 9/11? :rolleyes:

That had been in planning FOR YEARS, while Clinton was in office! So tell me which of Clinton's policies brought this on?

And why don't you explain to me which of his policies brought other terrorist attacks (that actually happened on his watch, e.g. 1993 WTC bombing) against the US?

And while you're at it, why were 70 Americans taken hostage by Iranian militants for over 400 days WHILE JIMMY CARTER WAS PRESIDENT?

You act like terrorism only began when Bush became president. :rolleyes:

Get your head out of your arse!

You're clueless.

Cariaoke
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:07 PM
You are right. If I would be an American - and there are many good reasons to be - I would feel offended by many of the upper posts, too.
A land who enables most of the best scientists on the world to do a better job can be proud of its intelligence.
But what I am really afraid of is the tendency of some people to bring it all down to their own (religious) safety in a country that is so multi-cultural and has so many ways of living. No more distinction, just following the one who shouts loudest.

I just feel like I'm a terrorist as I can't follow Bush's argumentation cause he said everyone who isn't with his policy ('with us') is with the terrorists. Thank you, sir.
I agree with you totally. I'm sad to admit that all Bush had to do was bring God's name into the war and there's at least 20 million people out of the 300+ million that would follow him without thinking.

This is why religion is very scary to me. People can rely on it too much to the point where they can't think for themselves. On talk radio they were talking about how religious "leaders" actually stand up at the pulpit and say if you vote against Bush, you're basically going to hell. We all know people in positions of influence can cause all sorts of harm but this is a very dangerous situation.

I'm not with invading a country because you don't like it's leader. I wish some Americans could empathize and see if we were invaded in such a way, we probably wouldn't think that was so cool. But everybody's too caught up in their pseudo patriotism to even see the truth. "Stomp those non-Christian bastards into submission. Kill 'em all!" It makes me sad. *sigh*

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:15 PM
Tell me what Bush did in his first 8 months as president that brought about 9/11? :rolleyes:
That had been in planning FOR YEARS, while Clinton was in office! So tell me which of Clinton's policies brought this on?

And why don't you explain to me which of his policies brought other terrorist attacks (that actually happened on his watch, e.g. 1993 WTC bombing) against the US?

.....
Get your head out of your arse!

....

Even if I'm not the goal of your comment, here is my ass:

Bin Laden planned a big attac in the US since the mid eighties (as he gave to understand in this last tape recording). But don't you think he just had to find people with the right motivation to attac the US on it's own playground ? And where do you think this motivation emerges from ? Don't you think that Bin Laden needs a man like George Walker Bush to find these fanatics again and again ?
I think as long as polarization continues the more the islamic world feels like a tennisball of this administration and not like a player.

cheesestix
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:23 PM
Even if I'm not the goal of your comment, here is my ass:

Bin Laden planned a big attac in the US since the mid eighties (as he gave to understand in this last tape recording). But don't you think he just had to find people with the right motivation to attac the US on it's own playground ? And where do you think this motivation emerges from ? Don't you think that Bin Laden needs a man like George Walker Bush to find these fanatics again and again ?
I think as long as polarization continues the more the islamic world feels like a tennisball of this administration and not like a player.

What are you trying to say? :confused:

My point is that a lot of stuff happened on Clinton's watch. 9/11 was planned on Clinton's watch.

These people will try to attack NO MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT. So to blame it on Bush is ludicrous.

!<blocparty>!
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:24 PM
Tell me what Bush did in his first 8 months as president that brought about 9/11? :rolleyes:



Shall we see about that one:

1)George W was on vacation 42% of the time :)

2)He didn’t hold one meeting to discuss the threat of terrorism.

3)He cut terrorism funding to the FBI.

4)He ignored the security briefing given to him on Aug 6th 2001 saying that Bin Laden was planning to attack the US by hi-jacking planes? Or was the title to vague? - "Bin Laden Determined to attack the US"

SJW
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:28 PM
4)He ignored the security briefing given to him on Aug 6th 2001 saying that Bin Laden was planning to attack the US by hi-jacking planes? Or was the title to vague? - "Bin Laden Determined to attack the US"

:haha::haha::haha:

this is Bush we're talking about.

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:31 PM
I agree with you totally. I'm sad to admit that all Bush had to do was bring God's name into the war and there's at least 20 million people out of the 300+ million that would follow him without thinking.

This is why religion is very scary to me. People can rely on it too much to the point where they can't think for themselves. On talk radio they were talking about how religious "leaders" actually stand up at the pulpit and say if you vote against Bush, you're basically going to hell. We all know people in positions of influence can cause all sorts of harm but this is a very dangerous situation.

I'm not with invading a country because you don't like it's leader. I wish some Americans could empathize and see if we were invaded in such a way, we probably wouldn't think that was so cool. But everybody's too caught up in their pseudo patriotism to even see the truth. "Stomp those non-Christian bastards into submission. Kill 'em all!" It makes me sad. *sigh*
So why did Kerry jump on the bandwaggon? Is there such a huge anti-sentimental feeling against those who argumentate rationally without using the word 'God'?
Sometimes it's really scary. Like our German neonazis who always find people who back their ideology that all what is extraneous is evil. And many accept their language.
I still hope that there are some conservatives (even if none of their votes go to Kerry) in the States who not only think in religious and militant categories.

cheesestix
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:41 PM
Shall we see about that one:

1)George W was on vacation 42% of the time :)

2)He didn’t hold one meeting to discuss the threat of terrorism.

3)He cut terrorism funding to the FBI.

4)He ignored the security briefing given to him on Aug 6th 2001 saying that Bin Laden was planning to attack the US by hi-jacking planes? Or was the title to vague? - "Bin Laden Determined to attack the US"

First of all, what did Clinton ever do about OBL? :rolleyes: He had 8 years and did nothing....even after 1993 WTC.

Secondly, explain to me how Bush's "foreign policy" brought about 9/11? That was really the crux of the discussion. You just weren't paying attention?

gentenaire
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:53 PM
These people will try to attack NO MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT. So to blame it on Bush is ludicrous.

I agree that 9/11 would have happened, no matter who was president. I also feel that it would have happened, no matter who was president the previous 8 years. It's indeed silly to blame it on Bush, it's equally sillly to blame it on Clinton.

OTOH, what happened after 9/11, that is something we can attack Bush on. Bush turned this into a holy war and I find that extremely frightening. And because Bush decided to involve religion, Bin Laden's found a lot more support for his cause. It's now become a Jihad, they believe America is out to destroy Islam and they want to fight to prevent it.

The whole point is that Bin Laden is not the leader of a country. You can't hurt him by bombing a random country. When innocent Americans die, it affects Bush, when innocent or even not so innocent Iraqis or Afghans die, it has absolutely zero effect on Bin Laden! A war involves two sides, Bush is calling this a war without knowing who the other side is.

!<blocparty>!
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:54 PM
First of all, what did Clinton ever do about OBL? :rolleyes: He had 8 years and did nothing....even after 1993 WTC.

Secondly, explain to me how Bush's "foreign policy" brought about 9/11? That was really the crux of the discussion. You just weren't paying attention?

Im not explaining jack shit to you. I answered your "question". And to be honest - No, I wasn't paying attention to your shitty posts :)

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:57 PM
What are you trying to say? :confused:

My point is that a lot of stuff happened on Clinton's watch. 9/11 was planned on Clinton's watch.

These people will try to attack NO MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT. So to blame it on Bush is ludicrous. I wanted to say this: it's sometimes useful to use the right language and the right tactics to beware us from attacs. And GWB, Wolfowiz et al. are doing the opposite of what J. Carter (in the Cold War), William J. Clinton, Isaac Rabin ( :sad: ), Kofi Annan or even George Bush sen. did.
And in case of Mr. Bush jun. we maybe will feel the results of polarization in 10 or 20 years. But I think the attac of 9/11 was just triggered by a massive hatress of the radicals towards the arrogance and the ignorance of the Bush-administration.

cheesestix
Nov 1st, 2004, 03:57 PM
Im not explaining jack shit to you. I answered your "question". And to be honest - No, I wasn't paying attention to your shitty posts :)

Because you can't. :rolleyes:

Loser!

griffin
Nov 1st, 2004, 04:39 PM
First of all, what did Clinton ever do about OBL? :rolleyes: He had 8 years and did nothing....

That's actually not true. I think it was actually the USS Cole bombing that kicked it into high gear, but the Clinton administration was working on a comprehensive plan to deal with terrorism. They didn't have time to put all of it in place before his term ended, and his staffers made multiple overtures to the incoming Bush people to go over what they knew and what they were working on. The Bushies blew them off. They were more concerned with finding a reason to go after Hussein.

That's not to say Clinton's plan would have prevented 9/11 had it been in place, but to say they "did nothing" is a bald lie.

Anyway.

Non-Americans need to remember that Americans are no more fond of people telling us what we should do than Non-American's are of us telling them what to do. And vice versa.

cheesestix
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:37 PM
That's actually not true. I think it was actually the USS Cole bombing that kicked it into high gear, but the Clinton administration was working on a comprehensive plan to deal with terrorism. They didn't have time to put all of it in place before his term ended, and his staffers made multiple overtures to the incoming Bush people to go over what they knew and what they were working on. The Bushies blew them off. They were more concerned with finding a reason to go after Hussein.

That's not to say Clinton's plan would have prevented 9/11 had it been in place, but to say they "did nothing" is a bald lie.

Anyway.

Non-Americans need to remember that Americans are no more fond of people telling us what we should do than Non-American's are of us telling them what to do. And vice versa.

Okay, Clinton "didn't do enough". How's that? He could have had OBL on a silver platter from Sudan in 1996, but he didn't take the offer.

My point wasn't to bash Clinton, anyway. The whole point was to demonstrate to "jelena4me" that terrorism existed long before Bush was ever in office, and that it's not a result of "Bush's foreign policy".

And I do agree with your last sentence.

griffin
Nov 1st, 2004, 05:40 PM
Okay, Clinton "didn't do enough". How's that?

Better - esp. if you'll agree it applies to Bush as well (since we all had enough reason to know better by his inauguration, and again, the outgoing administration made repeated efforts to bring them up to speed)

Spunky83
Nov 1st, 2004, 06:44 PM
Vote for Bush if you like and if youīre old enough.

But if I could vote against someone who...

lies to every american citizen and to the whole world :mad:
uses the fear and sadness of the people after the brutal 9/11 attacks in his favour :sad:
doesnīt do anything to protect our nature
doesnīt respect the life of homosexuals in a country whose most important word is "freedom"
provoked the anger and disrespect of former alliance countries (do you know how much the world hates America right now? Are you guys aware of it? You probably think you donīt need other countries, but you do) :fiery:
thinks that Africa is a country? :rolleyes:
was an alcoholic and party freak until he was 40? 40! Until he was 40, he didnīt care about poltics at all, nor he didnīt care for anything :drink:
wants to let the people think heīs "one of them", though he is even wealthier than Kerry (but Bush doesnīt let the rich people pay much taxes...weird)
let his farther put him in a nice military position in order to avoid going to war (he didnīt even show up regulary)...wasnīt Kerry fighting for your country in that time?
has more holidays than work :zzz:
doesnīt accept abortions...always liked to have the child of my raper

...I would certainly vote against him. I am so pissed that I canīt do anything. You might think that this election doesnīt have anything to do with us, the rest of the world (esp. evil Europe), but it does. Everything which the US do has an affect on the rest of the world. I canīt tell you guys who you should give your vote for, but please, please...think about it for yourself and donīt just listen to Fox News or other weirdos (including Mr. Bush himself of course)! The US have taken the wrong turn and needs someone to fix it. The US are going down the drain and I canīt believe that so many people are too blind to see it. You should really think about it.

It might sound pretty funny to you, but this election day will also be one of the most important days in my life. It should be as important in your life!!!

So to all the undecided people: Please go vote!!! :bounce:...and give me the party of my life ;)

Steff_forever
Nov 1st, 2004, 07:12 PM
I couldn't have summarized it better, Spunky83 !

It's so amazing how a man who has such little intelligence, such a small vocabulary ('God', 'evil', 'war on terror' seems all he can say ..., sometimes 'oil business') and so many hidden links to the oil&military industry and the Saudi family can influence so many people by flat (religious) propaganda and fears.

Tennis Fool
Nov 1st, 2004, 07:36 PM
was an alcoholic and party freak until he was 40? 40! Until he was 40, he didnīt care about poltics at all, nor he didnīt care for anything Yes he did. Buying the Texas Rangers. :)

~MaRt~HiNgIs~F@N
Nov 1st, 2004, 07:41 PM
I hope Kerry will win!!!!

Xian
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:30 PM
I really hope the Americans learn about their mistake electing Bush

in case of a re-election I dont see good future prospects for America and its inhabitants, economy and culture

Spunky83
Nov 1st, 2004, 08:35 PM
Yes he did. Buying the Texas Rangers. :)

Oh yeah...and selling it afterwards for a lot of money...well, ok, didnīt do anything is maybe a little bit harsh;)

Rocketta
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:27 PM
Hey, if you want to form an opinion on Iraqi politics and Saddam's failure as a leader, then you should have moved to Iraq and voted there. After all, if you don't live in the country, you're not allowed to voice your opinion about its politics. At least, that's what some people in this thread have said.
That's :bs: you can have an opinion....that's not the problem....the problem comes in when you expect people to think like you or follow your opinion and calling someone dumb because they don't follow your opinion when in fact that's really what's dumb. If you are so passionate about Amrican politics and want it to change you know the options...but one of them isn't people doing what "you" want.

Rocketta
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:50 PM
Rocketta, I know you are a well-informed and intelligent poster and I can't understand why you seem to take offense to non-Americans voicing their opinions on who they would like to win the Presidential election.
I don't take offence to them voicing their opinion about the election...I take offence to them thinking they have the corner on intellect and knowing what's best for Americans. I take offence to the superiority complex some of them have all the while crying that the USA is all powerful and arrogant. I take offence to anyone thinking that people should vote one way and then when they don't think the people are dumb or stupid cause they didn't vote or do what they wanted.


The President of the United States is the MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD!!! His actions and policies affect the whole world, not just the U.S.
When his decisions cause such intense hatred in the Muslim community, for example, the resulting increase in Muslim fanatics turning to terrorism affects the safety of the rest of the world as well as the U.S.

When Bush first became President, one of the first things he did was to stop the funding of humanitarian groups in South and central America who
gave birth control information to poor women there. He also withdrew from the Kyoto Treaty, which is an international anti-pollution treaty (pollution controls hurt big international corporations), and refused to sign a nuclear weapon non-poliferation treaty with Russia and other countries.

These are only a few examples but I'm sure you can understand why the rest of the world has a stake in this election!
I know they have a stake in the election....and they still have no power over what people do or feel or think...They still have no control over what American people feel is in their best interest. Which is why I say work to change your country.....work to make them the super power so you can show the US how it is done perfectly where every decision made is for the betterment of everybody. :rolleyes:

Basically, it's easy being on the outside in....it's like running this board...have you read the complaints....there is always someone who is not going to be pleased with decisions...but really is there anything anyone other than the leaders can do? No so we are left with options....we can go along with it or leave and maybe make our own site as big and powerful as this one and run it like we see fit.

Hey I've never voted for Bush....but to think that people who do are dumb, stupid or warmongers is just ignorant and arrogant.

See this is not a why not to vote for Bush thread...this was a let's bash Americans who vote for bush thread....I'm not with that.

ptkten
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:54 PM
Rocketta, I couldn't agree with you more :worship:

bw2082
Nov 1st, 2004, 10:56 PM
I don't take offence to them voicing their opinion about the election...I take offence to them thinking they have the corner on intellect and knowing what's best for Americans. I take offence to the superiority complex some of them have all the while crying that the USA is all powerful and arrogant. I take offence to anyone thinking that people should vote one way and then when they don't think the people are dumb or stupid cause they didn't vote or do what they wanted.


I know they have a stake in the election....and they still have no power over what people do or feel or think...They still have no control over what American people feel is in their best interest. Which is why I say work to change your country.....work to make them the super power so you can show the US how it is done perfectly where every decision made is for the betterment of everybody. :rolleyes:

Basically, it's easy being on the outside in....it's like running this board...have you read the complaints....there is always someone who is not going to be pleased with decisions...but really is there anything anyone other than the leaders can do? No so we are left with options....we can go along with it or leave and maybe make our own site as big and powerful as this one and run it like we see fit.

Hey I've never voted for Bush....but to think that people who do are dumb, stupid or warmongers is just ignorant and arrogant.

See this is not a why not to vote for Bush thread...this was a let's bash Americans who vote for bush thread....I'm not with that.


:yeah: :)

LucasArg
Nov 2nd, 2004, 06:04 AM
I am not bashing all americans, I think that people who votes for Bush sucks :mad:

gentenaire
Nov 2nd, 2004, 06:04 AM
Which is why I say work to change your country.....work to make them the super power so you can show the US how it is done perfectly where every decision made is for the betterment of everybody. :rolleyes:

Basically, it's easy being on the outside in....it's like running this board...have you read the complaints....there is always someone who is not going to be pleased with decisions...but really is there anything anyone other than the leaders can do? No so we are left with options....we can go along with it or leave and maybe make our own site as big and powerful as this one and run it like we see fit.

Now this is BS! You're comparing the US to this board as if the world choose the US as its leader. It didn't! If it did, we'd have some say on the matter, we don't. Also, we're all here on this board out of our free will. We choose to be here. The admins of this site can do whatever they want, IMO, because it's their site! If we don't like it, we can just go away. If we don't like what the US is doing, we can't go away.

Also, do you really think Belgium can become a superpower? LOL :lol: Why does there have to be a superpower in the first place? I don't see what difference it makes whether you live in a superpower or not. Quality of life is what matters, I don't care about power.
Besides, the US worked so hard to become the world's only superpower (and in doing so created a few monsters like Bin Laden) , I doubt they'll be open to others becoming equally strong. I don't know about you, but I don't want another arms race.

Which reminds me, I was recently thinking what would have happened had Bush been president during the Cuba crisis. *shudder*

As for the namecalling, the biggest ones in this thread are Americans! Several others have called Bacardi on it.

SJW
Nov 2nd, 2004, 11:35 AM
actually, it's the Americans who seem to be doing all the name calling :scratch: especially mboyle and cheesestix....they're ones coming into the threads cussing out people with sense Democrats

pigam
Nov 2nd, 2004, 11:54 AM
Now this is BS! You're comparing the US to this board as if the world choose the US as its leader. It didn't! If it did, we'd have some say on the matter, we don't. Also, we're all here on this board out of our free will. We choose to be here. The admins of this site can do whatever they want, IMO, because it's their site! If we don't like it, we can just go away. If we don't like what the US is doing, we can't go away.

Also, do you really think Belgium can become a superpower? LOL :lol: Why does there have to be a superpower in the first place? I don't see what difference it makes whether you live in a superpower or not. Quality of life is what matters, I don't care about power.
Besides, the US worked so hard to become the world's only superpower (and in doing so created a few monsters like Bin Laden) , I doubt they'll be open to others becoming equally strong. I don't know about you, but I don't want another arms race.

Which reminds me, I was recently thinking what would have happened had Bush been president during the Cuba crisis. *shudder*

As for the namecalling, the biggest ones in this thread are Americans! Several others have called Bacardi on it.

:yeah:

Did you see the documentary on "FOXnews" yesterday (Terzake)?

cheesestix
Nov 2nd, 2004, 12:22 PM
actually, it's the Americans who seem to be doing all the name calling :scratch: especially mboyle and cheesestix....they're ones coming into the threads cussing out people with sense Democrats

Show me where I called someone a name???? :rolleyes:

Since you're acusing me of it...

GO FUCK YOURSELF!

Until then, I hadn't called anyone names (and technically, I still didn't call you a name). Just look at the titles though...."Conservatives are assholes", etc :rolleyes:

Get lost, you partisan twit!

And what's with all of these foreigners telling Americans how to vote? You accuse Americans of poking their nose in everyone's business, but WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING??? :rolleyes:

cheesestix
Nov 2nd, 2004, 12:24 PM
I am not bashing all americans, I think that people who votes for Bush sucks :mad:

And what do YOU know about it? You don't live here?

Damn! Worry about your own fucking country!

cheesestix
Nov 2nd, 2004, 12:29 PM
I don't take offence to them voicing their opinion about the election...I take offence to them thinking they have the corner on intellect and knowing what's best for Americans. I take offence to the superiority complex some of them have all the while crying that the USA is all powerful and arrogant. I take offence to anyone thinking that people should vote one way and then when they don't think the people are dumb or stupid cause they didn't vote or do what they wanted.


I know they have a stake in the election....and they still have no power over what people do or feel or think...They still have no control over what American people feel is in their best interest. Which is why I say work to change your country.....work to make them the super power so you can show the US how it is done perfectly where every decision made is for the betterment of everybody. :rolleyes:

Basically, it's easy being on the outside in....it's like running this board...have you read the complaints....there is always someone who is not going to be pleased with decisions...but really is there anything anyone other than the leaders can do? No so we are left with options....we can go along with it or leave and maybe make our own site as big and powerful as this one and run it like we see fit.

Hey I've never voted for Bush....but to think that people who do are dumb, stupid or warmongers is just ignorant and arrogant.

See this is not a why not to vote for Bush thread...this was a let's bash Americans who vote for bush thread....I'm not with that.

Wow! I actually agree with you on something.

You have the right to vote for Kerry if it's in your best interest, just as I'm voting for Bush for the same reasons.

I'm just tired of all of these topics like "Bush supporters are assholes" and stuff.

And I'm sick of the arrogance of people from other countries coming on this board and telling Americans what's in their best interest/how to vote.

alfajeffster
Nov 2nd, 2004, 12:35 PM
girls, Girls, GIRLS! Get ahold of yourselves!

OUT!
Nov 2nd, 2004, 12:37 PM
And what do YOU know about it? You don't live here?That's a dumb argument - you don't live in Iraq but I'm sure you have an opinion about it. :o

Hagar
Nov 2nd, 2004, 01:09 PM
I have to say that where Kerry came across as rather stiff in the beginning, he gives the impression to feel more relaxed now. I hope he wins, he seems a lot smarter than George W. (who doesn't?)

SJW
Nov 2nd, 2004, 01:13 PM
Show me where I called someone a name???? :rolleyes:

right here:

Because you can't. :rolleyes:

Loser!

Since you're acusing me of it...

GO FUCK YOURSELF!

you're not doing much to disprove my argument that you're a foul mouthed person

Until then, I hadn't called anyone names (and technically, I still didn't call you a name). Just look at the titles though...."Conservatives are assholes", etc :rolleyes:

yes you DID call someone a name. where does it say "conservatives are assholes :confused:

Get lost, you partisan twit!

i'm from the UK. if you bothered to read my previous posts, you would know that free speech is highly encouraged and accepted here :kiss:

And what's with all of these foreigners telling Americans how to vote? You accuse Americans of poking their nose in everyone's business, but WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING??? :rolleyes:

telling you how to vote? where in this thread did i do that? exactly, i didn't. my argument was about Dubya and his policies, so...there :)

cheesestix
Nov 2nd, 2004, 01:44 PM
That's a dumb argument - you don't live in Iraq but I'm sure you have an opinion about it. :o

Yeah, but I'm not going to say that all people that vote for Allawi suck. :rolleyes:

Circe
Nov 2nd, 2004, 01:50 PM
i suppose it will take some time for the board to calm down once the results are announced, tempers are running very high :tape:
anyway, go VOTE. dont sit home trolling message boards for this one day.

cheesestix
Nov 2nd, 2004, 01:53 PM
right here:





you're not doing much to disprove my argument that you're a foul mouthed person



yes you DID call someone a name. where does it say "conservatives are assholes :confused:



i'm from the UK. if you bothered to read my previous posts, you would know that free speech is highly encouraged and accepted here :kiss:



telling you how to vote? where in this thread did i do that? exactly, i didn't. my argument was about Dubya and his policies, so...there :)

it said "Bush supporters are assholes" :rolleyes: same diff

and notice that I only use foul language in response to some liberal making a post such as "Bush supporters as assholes".

also, why don't you look at what the guy said to me first to deserve being called a "loser"??? :rolleyes:

"free speech is highly encouraged and accepted here"???? BULLSHIT!!!!!!! If you're a liberal, maybe. But conservatives/Republicans are constantly called "idiots", "stupid", "assholes", etc...and note that I only RESPOND in kind. it's always a liberal that starts a thread calling Republicans names. and notice that you singled ME out as an example of someone that uses profanity. how about mentioning the person that starts a thread called "Bush supporters are assholes"??? I guess you see nothing wrong with THAT?? :rolleyes: free speech, huh?

and where did I say that YOU specifically told me how to vote? there are plenty of foreigners here that think they have the right to tell Americans how to vote.

SJW
Nov 2nd, 2004, 02:00 PM
it said "Bush supporters are assholes" :rolleyes: same diff

and notice that I only use foul language in response to some liberal making a post such as "Bush supporters as assholes".

oh ok. but this thread? this thread was the one reserved for intelligent discussion

also, why don't you look at what the guy said to me first to deserve being called a "loser"??? :rolleyes:

you said you didn't call anyone a name and i said you did and quoted you :kiss:

"free speech is highly encouraged and accepted here"???? BULLSHIT!!!!!!! If you're a liberal, maybe. But conservatives/Republicans are constantly called "idiots", "stupid", "assholes", etc...and note that I only RESPOND in kind. it's always a liberal that starts a thread calling Republicans names.

er....here being the UK. did you read that much? :confused:

and where did I say that YOU specifically told me how to vote? there are plenty of foreigners here that think they have the right to tell Americans how to vote.

well you quoted me then went off on a rant to me so it was only normal to assume you were talking about me :tape::o

Nastyafan
Nov 2nd, 2004, 02:50 PM
The worst thing is that I doubt something in American policy will be changed whoever is the next president. Definitely it wasn't Bush who created the talibans (maybe his father), nor he armed Hussein. I think nor republicans, nor democrats want a secure world. Maybe they think America is as much safer as much more unstable is the rest of the world. Or it's much easier to rule and to exploit an unsafe world... Why didn't they do anything with Israel (who has WMD) and Palestina? Maybe because the Jewish money are in their banks, and there is no petrol?...
But reelecting Bush would show that not only their goverment but the majority of the nation is totaly estranged from the rest of the world. How ironicaly, he was the first president thrown with eggs and tomatos when he entered White house for the first time and after 4 years and everything he brought to the world he is more liked in his own country

fammmmedspin
Nov 2nd, 2004, 03:07 PM
US politics are perfectly understandable. Bush has many Reaganite qualities (vision, clarity, personality) in smaller doses. He also has Rumsfeld and co. The Democratic party is run by activists who are well to the left of the US public who elect unelectable candidates like Kerry. The problem with kerry is " not that he doesn't have ideas - he believes many things but he believes many things that are contradictory at the same time". That was a quote about Jimmy Carter who strikes me as pretty much identical in his views to Kerry and who similarly believed in the UN, France and Germany as good allies and restrained use of military power. Carter got a Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, a domestic recession and Khomeini for his trouble. Given that choice and a dubious war that now has to be won its no wonder America is divided.

As for world opinion. France is run by a corrupt president and was heavily involved in Saddam's bribery efforts after arming him for most of the eighties. France sees itself. and has done so since Chirac's mentor Degaulle took office, as the enemy of the US intent ion building a countervailing European Superpower - a design that British voters will destroy in 2006 if no one else vetoes the EU constituton first. Russia is run by a KGB officer who seems to have sent army nits to Iraq just before the US invasion to remove evidence of past assistance. Germany is still in purda after 1939. China is a totalitarian state which is arming to challenge the US. The UN has never been effective as a peace making body for obvious reasons. On the other side of the coin Kerry and Edwards are a far more protectionist ticket than Bush. Its not surprising the rest of the world doesn't agree with the US and still won't agree under Kerry. Indeed the irony of this election may be that voters voting about jobs going overseas may well swing it for Kerry in Ohio.