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View Full Version : Was peak Venus as good as the girls now?


henree
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:26 PM
Alot of people are dissapointed in Venus and her results as of late. But would the 2001 & 2002 Venus have faired any better against Sharapova, Bovina & Kuznetsova in 2004. Venus has always had bad technique on her forehand and Serve. I just think the problem is the level of the game has risen. And Venus has plateued. Venus is at her best coming forward. I personally think if she hangs around at the baseline with these hard hitting chicks she will continue to loose around the quarters of the major tournaments. Venus's game is not built around long baseline rallies. She needs to introduce netplay into her game. Something new, anything new wont hurt...

MLF
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:30 PM
She was better at her peak than the girls playing at the top now, who are also very good. Venus will be back if she wants it.

Sugiyama=#1
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:31 PM
Better. Venus when she was #1 is better than Lindsay at her peak.
Just this comparison can show you how good Venus is.

cheo23
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:38 PM
Alot of people are dissapointed in Venus and her results as of late. But would the 2001 & 2002 Venus have faired any better against Sharapova, Bovina & Kuznetsova in 2004. Venus has always had bad technique on her forehand and Serve. I just think the problem is the level of the game has risen. And Venus has plateued. Venus is at her best coming forward. I personally think if she hangs around at the baseline with these hard hitting chicks she will continue to loose around the quarters of the major tournaments. Venus's game is not built around long baseline rallies. She needs to introduce netplay into her game. Something new, anything new wont hurt...
SHE NEEDS a NEW COACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !
& Also She always says she Wants to come to NET but rarely Does..so its like WHATEVER VENUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

Experimentee
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:43 PM
Venus was better at her peak than all these players at their peak. Without a doubt.
She was always beating Davenport at her peak, and look how well Davenport is doing now. And its not like Davenport has magically improved her game at 28, the level now is definitely lower than it was in 2000.

selesbooz
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:44 PM
Yes she was better then the girls now, too bad she didn't play more.

cheo23
Oct 22nd, 2004, 04:54 PM
Venus was better at her peak than all these players at their peak. Without a doubt.
She was always beating Davenport at her peak, and look how well Davenport is doing now. And its not like Davenport has magically improved her game at 28, the level now is definitely lower than it was in 2000.
WHATEVER! THE LEVEL is HIGHER NOW! THE RUSSIANS Kept Winnin GRAND SLAMS...Lindsay has IMPROVED HER FITNESS & Movement!!!!!!!!!! & don't Forget She DEFEATED VENUS 3-0 THIS YEAR! Venus hasn't Done anything different from 2000..so NO at her Peak She couldn't Compete with these Girls!!!!!!!!!!!

FrauleinSteffi
Oct 22nd, 2004, 05:41 PM
I think the level of play has risen overall this year:)...Venus & serena are still great but not any better though & not improving has you left behind eventually I mean theyre still top ten players but not threats at Slams very much and so far away from #1 too...Davenport Has always been awesome her injuries hurt her in 02 & 03 but this year shes played as well as ever..the Russian girls have caught up with the Williams sisters

MLF
Oct 22nd, 2004, 05:44 PM
Davenport Has always been awesome her injuries hurt her in 02 & 03 but this year shes played as well as ever..the Russian girls have caught up with the Williams sisters
I'm not sure how you can come up with this sentence. Just as Davenport finally seems to be injury free both Venus & Serena have been held back over the past 12 months by injuries. No doubt the others have improved as you say, but the Williams sisters haven't had a clear run health wise to be in top contention.

FrauleinSteffi
Oct 22nd, 2004, 05:52 PM
All the other players Kim & Justine & Jen among others have been injured & out for considerable periods of time like Venus & Serena...They were given special rankings for 6 months...they simply dont take tennis seriously that much & its not their top priority I see them at movie premieres & fasion shows & this & that etc...point being their outside activites hurt them ...the other players except for Anna have never embraced celebrity too much Well maybe Maria but shes Wom Wimby & 3 other tourneys this year & has beaten both sisters in straight sets...The Russian girls work hard & train hard & they are extremely tough & keep improving...Venus & serena havent improved for whatever reason thats why even with special rankings & seedings for months..they are barely in the top 10... Davenport is married & still she focused enough & works & trains hard & thats why shes #1 again at age 28 Enough said

*kaz*
Oct 22nd, 2004, 05:54 PM
She probably was just as good, maybe better. It seemed like it at the time anyways. Quite hard to think back and remember tennis 3 years ago.

fammmmedspin
Oct 22nd, 2004, 06:01 PM
Maria is getting better as is everyone in the top 10 whose surname ends in "a" so we don't know where her peak is.Venus's peak was when people couldn't play her at all - we don't know what that would look like if the balls had come back as they do today. Once they come back consistency, imagination and skill matter more thanthey did in 2000.

Part of it too is match ups. Maria can do to Venus what Serena does/did. If it was Saurez or Sugiyama or Molik there today a SF migt be there for Venus. If it was Nadia, Elena or Patty I just don'rt know who would win.

Calimero377
Oct 22nd, 2004, 06:40 PM
Alot of people are dissapointed in Venus and her results as of late. But would the 2001 & 2002 Venus have faired any better against Sharapova, Bovina & Kuznetsova in 2004. Venus has always had bad technique on her forehand and Serve. I just think the problem is the level of the game has risen. ...


I don't think so.
Today a player like Davenport is #1.
That speaks volumes!

And then consider 28/29-year-olds like Sugiyama and Suarez breaking into top-ten for the FIRST time EVER this year!
32-year-old Farina Elia is about #20 or so. Good old Amy Frazier - same age - top-30. So is Lisa Raymond (31 years).

You think they all are better now than 3, 5 or 8 years earlier when they were soundly beaten by the top players every day? Of course not. On the contrary ...

VeNuS#1LoVa
Oct 22nd, 2004, 06:41 PM
Alot of people are dissapointed in Venus and her results as of late. But would the 2001 & 2002 Venus have faired any better against Sharapova, Bovina & Kuznetsova in 2004. Venus has always had bad technique on her forehand and Serve. I just think the problem is the level of the game has risen. And Venus has plateued. Venus is at her best coming forward. I personally think if she hangs around at the baseline with these hard hitting chicks she will continue to loose around the quarters of the major tournaments. Venus's game is not built around long baseline rallies. She needs to introduce netplay into her game. Something new, anything new wont hurt...
Absolutely not, there is no way that Sharapova, Kuznetsova, Bovina, and Myskina could keep up with the old Venus. There is no way...

WF4EVER
Oct 22nd, 2004, 07:20 PM
Venus was tons better and more consistent. Between 2000 and 2002 the only player who had better results, especially at the Slams was Serena. In 2000 Venus was dominant, in 2001 she was consistent and productive, and in 2002 she was losing to Serena.

Which player of the current crop has been as consistent as she was, or as dominant, besides Serena? Davenport has been consistent this year but she's on her final leg and capitalizing on the absence of Kim and Justine, and the inconsistency of Venus and Serena.

FrauleinSteffi
Oct 22nd, 2004, 07:59 PM
Capriati won 2 Slams in 01 2 semis & 1 won Slam in 02 too:)

Knizzle
Oct 22nd, 2004, 08:35 PM
WHATEVER! THE LEVEL is HIGHER NOW! THE RUSSIANS Kept Winnin GRAND SLAMS...Lindsay has IMPROVED HER FITNESS & Movement!!!!!!!!!! & don't Forget She DEFEATED VENUS 3-0 THIS YEAR! Venus hasn't Done anything different from 2000..so NO at her Peak She couldn't Compete with these Girls!!!!!!!!!!!
Shut the fuck up you dumbass, you don't know shit. You should be banned for lack of tennis knowledge.

Volcana
Oct 22nd, 2004, 09:18 PM
Alot of people are dissapointed in Venus and her results as of late. But would the 2001 & 2002 Venus have faired any better against Sharapova, Bovina & Kuznetsova in 2004. Venus has always had bad technique on her forehand and Serve. I just think the problem is the level of the game has risen. And Venus has plateued.Henree, look at your history. The Venus of 2003 was beating all those players. The level of the game hasn't risen. Venus went to five out of six GS finals before suffered a very serious injury. I think she's got a lot of abdominal scar tissue, and she simply can't hit the same way. But I don't think the level of tour rose that much between Wimbledon of 2003 and OZ of 2004.

Not the Sharapova, Bovina and Kuznetsova haven't improved. But remember, it was Myskina who won a GS first. A player basically the same age as Venus. Venus' level is off a LOT. This isn't the same player who made the finals of 2002 French, 2002 Wimbledon, 2002 USOpen, 2003 Australian and 2003 Wimbledon. But the tour didn't change that much in six months.

Hitting really big requires fine control. Taking six months off costs you that. But I think on top of that, Venus' injury has taken something away from her. She very rarely takes massive rips running sideways, fully extended on the backhand side now. She blocks that shot with slice. Two things could cause that. Being slower, and/or not being able to crank your abs around to generate the power for that shot.

But the concept that the tour improved that much between Wimbledon 2003 and OZ 2004 is less than likely. Venus has been having problems with top twenty players all year.

There is also some chance that the death of her sister fucked up her mental focus, but I have no way of measuring that.

fammmmedspin
Oct 22nd, 2004, 10:52 PM
Myskina is a lot better this year than last. She was tougher in Moscow than she was at the olympics and was tougher getting to the winning position at the olympics than she was at the FO. Sveta and Maria obviously are improving. Dementieva is -even allowing for the serve. They are winning tough matches - 17-15 in the third set TB if necessary. They, like Kim and Justine, are fast and have weapons. Justine and Kim are the epitome of strong defence, consistency and will power. The top 25 is the strongest its been for ages and people like Maleeva, Sprem, Raymond, Petrova, Schnyder and Zvonereva are real threats to the top players - a role that fell to Testud and schnyder alone around 2000. The ball is getting hit harder. Schiavone at 5-5 is hitting serves at 115 mph. Sharapova's second serve is 10 mph faster than Serena's.

Contrast that to 2000 when the opposition was Graf's understudies, Hingis and Davenport. Add the surprise factor that no one then played like Venus and she played so rarely no one learnt. Basically now the ball comes back, many opponents are just as fast they know Venus's game and they too have weapons. Maria even plays a technically superior version of Venus's game. How many of the top 10 can venus beat in a rally?

Add the injury the losses, the GS block.

Then add the sister tragedy - the point of which is not that it gives you a block but that traumatic stress can wreak havoc with the stress control systems and its a top line stress control system you need to beat Sharapova on form.

Jaime Bahena
Oct 23rd, 2004, 05:31 PM
I think the level of play has risen overall this year:)...Venus & serena are still great but not any better though & not improving has you left behind eventually I mean theyre still top ten players but not threats at Slams very much and so far away from #1 too...Davenport Has always been awesome her injuries hurt her in 02 & 03 but this year shes played as well as ever..the Russian girls have caught up with the Williams sisters

That's the nature of life, and tennis as well. Change, change, change. Change occurs for the better as well. I believe Sharapova is better than the sisters, as will be future players when Maria turns twenty three years of age. New people come, and they are bigger, faster, stronger.

jean_genie
Oct 23rd, 2004, 08:08 PM
Henree, look at your history. The Venus of 2003 was beating all those players. The level of the game hasn't risen. Venus went to five out of six GS finals before suffered a very serious injury. I think she's got a lot of abdominal scar tissue, and she simply can't hit the same way. But I don't think the level of tour rose that much between Wimbledon of 2003 and OZ of 2004.

Not the Sharapova, Bovina and Kuznetsova haven't improved. But remember, it was Myskina who won a GS first. A player basically the same age as Venus. Venus' level is off a LOT. This isn't the same player who made the finals of 2002 French, 2002 Wimbledon, 2002 USOpen, 2003 Australian and 2003 Wimbledon. But the tour didn't change that much in six months.

Hitting really big requires fine control. Taking six months off costs you that. But I think on top of that, Venus' injury has taken something away from her. She very rarely takes massive rips running sideways, fully extended on the backhand side now. She blocks that shot with slice. Two things could cause that. Being slower, and/or not being able to crank your abs around to generate the power for that shot.

But the concept that the tour improved that much between Wimbledon 2003 and OZ 2004 is less than likely. Venus has been having problems with top twenty players all year.

There is also some chance that the death of her sister fucked up her mental focus, but I have no way of measuring that.

Well said. No one knows how deep that abdominal injury went and whenever you've sustained an injury, there is a "fear factor" in re-occurence. From the eye witness assessments of her strokes (I watched the Wimbledon 2003 match against Clijsters and then the 2004 Charleston final), her form looks different. I know that the Wimby match was where she re-aggravated the injury but she was still swinging freely when she could and it was most notable when she couldn't. I think the USOpen match against Davenport was one of the best she's played recently and only some errant points here and there decided that match, but she was aggressive, going for her shots and her serve and her forehand were much better than lately.

So, Venus is faced with competition that is steadily improving, trying to stay healthy and not re-injure herself, mentally dealing with a lot of personal issues and keeping herself focused on coordinating all of that into winning tennis matches. I think she'll get it together soon enough. The current players are all good and it bodes well for giving her a goal to work toward--getting wins over them, getting her ranking back up, winning tournaments. I have faith that she'll get there.