Top 25 vs Top 25 W-L in 2004

These are the CURRENT top 25 (as of 18/10/04) Updated through Zurich Quarter-finals

Lindsay Davenport: 27-7 (79%)

Wins: Mauresmo (2), Myskina (2), Dementieva (2), S.Williams (1), V.Williams (3), Zvonareva (4), Petrova (2), Sugiyama (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (2), Bovina (1), Schiavone (1), Molik (2), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (1), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (1), Dementieva (1), Henin-Hardenne (2), Sharapova (1), Schnyder (1)


Amelie Mauresmo: 26-9 (74%)

Wins: Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (3), Henin-Hardenne (1), Capriati (1), Zvonareva (2), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Schiavone (3), Molik (2), Farina Elia (4), Dechy (1), Likhovtseva (1), Maleeva (2)
Losses: Davenport (2), Dementieva (2), Henin-Hardenne (2), S.Williams (1), Schiavone (1), Molik (1)


Anastasia Myskina: 20-11 (65%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (2), Sharapova (3), Capriati (2), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (2), Schiavone (1), Molik (1), Dechy (1), Likhovtseva (3), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Davenport (2), Mauresmo (1), Henin-Hardenne (2), Capriati (1), Clijsters (1), Molik (2), Likhovtseva (2)


Svetlana Kuznetsova: 23-16 (59%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Dementieva (2), Henin-Hardenne (1), Sharapova (1), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (2), Petrova (2), Sugiyama (2), Schnyder (1), Bovina (2), Schiavone (2), Molik (3), Farina Elia (1), Likhovtseva (1), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Mauresmo (3), Myskina (2), Dementieva (2), Henin-Hardenne (3), S.Williams (2), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (1), Sprem (1), Dechy (1)


Elena Dementieva: 17-12 (59%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (2), Kuznetsova (2), Capriati (1), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (1), Petrova (1), Sugiyama (1), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Bovina (4), Likhovtseva (1)
Losses: Davenport (2), Myskina (2), Kuznetsova (2), Sharapova (1), S.Williams (2), Schnyder (1), Bovina (1), Molik (1)


Justine Henin-Hardenne: 13-3 (81%)

Wins: Davenport (2), Mauresmo (2), Myskina (2), Kuznetsova (3), Clijsters (1), Zvonareva (1), Dechy (1), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Mauresmo (1), Kuznetsova (1), Petrova (1)


Maria Sharapova: 8-10 (44%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Dementieva (1), S.Williams (1), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (1), Sugiyama (1), Schnyder (1), Molik (1)
Losses: Myskina (3), Kuznetsova (1), Capriati (1), S.Williams (1), Zvonareva (2), Suarez (1), Farina Elia (1),


Jennifer Capriati: 12-8 (60%)

Wins: Myskina (1), Sharapova (1), S.Williams (3), Petrova (1), Sugiyama (1), Suarez (1), Bovina (1), Schiavone (1), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (1)
Losses: Mauresmo (2), Myskina (2), Dementieva (1), S.Williams (1), Dechy (1), Likhovtseva (1)


Serena Williams: 14-6 (70%)

Wins: Mauresmo (1), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (2), Sharapova (1), Capriati (1), Zvonareva (2), Petrova (1), Schnyder (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Likhovtseva (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Sharapova (1), Capriati (3), Petrova (1)



Kim Clijsters: 7-2 (78%)

Wins: Myskina (1), Schnyder (1), Farina Elia (3), Maleeva (2)
Losses: Henin-Hardenne (1), Bovina (1)


Venus Williams: 13-9 (59%)

Wins: Kuznetsova (1), Zvonareva (2), Suarez (1), Sprem (2), Schiavone (2), Molik (1), Likhovtseva (1), Zuluaga (2), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Davenport (3), Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (1), Dementieva (1), Sharapova (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1)


Vera Zvonareva: 11-21 (34%)

Wins: Kuznetsova (1), Sharapova (2), Schnyder (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Schiavone (1), Dechy (3), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Davenport (4), Mauresmo (2), Myskina (2), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (1), Henin-Hardenne (1), Sharapova (1), S.Williams (2), V.Williams (2), Molik (1), Dechy (1), Likhovtseva (1), Zuluaga (1)


Nadia Petrova: 8-12 (40%)

Wins: Henin-Hardenne (1), S.Williams (1), Suarez (1), Molik (1), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (3),
Losses: Davenport (2), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (1), Capriati (1), S.Williams (1), Sugiyama (1), Suarez (1), Schiavone (1), Likhovtseva (2)


Ai Sugiyama: 5-14 (26%)

Wins: Petrova (1), Sprem (1), Likhovtseva (2), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (1), Sharapova (1), Capriati (1), Suarez (2), Sprem (1), Schiavone (1), Molik (1), Dechy (1), Zuluaga (1), Maleeva (1)


Patty Schnyder: 7-10 (41%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Dementieva (1), Suarez (2), Dechy (1), Zuluaga (1), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Mauresmo (1), Kuznetsova (1), Dementieva (1), Sharapova (1), S.Williams (1), Clijsters (1), Zvonareva (1), Bovina (1), Farina Elia (1), Maleeva (1)


Paola Suarez: 8-10 (44%)

Wins: Sharapova (1), Petrova (1), Sugiyama (2), Sprem (1), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (1), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (1), Dementieva (1), Capriati (1), V.Williams (1), Petrova (1), Schnyder (2), Zuluaga (1), Maleeva (1)


Karolina Sprem: 8-12 (40%)

Wins: Kuznetsova (1), V.Williams (1), Sugiyama (1), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (1), Zuluaga (1), Maleeva (2)
Losses: Davenport (2), Mauresmo (1), S.Williams (1), V.Williams (2), Zvonareva (1), Sugiyama (1), Suarez (1), Schiavone (1), Farina Elia (2)


Elena Bovina: 9-12 (43%)

Wins: Dementieva (1), Clijsters (1), V.Williams (1), Schnyder (1), Schiavone (3), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (1), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (4), Capriati (1), S.Williams (1), Zvonareva (1), Schiavone (1)


Francesca Schiavone: 12-16 (43%)

Wins: Mauresmo (1), Petrova (1), Sugiyama (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Molik (1), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (3), Likhovtseva (1), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (3), Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (2), Capriati (1), V.Williams (2), Zvonareva (1), Bovina (3), Molik (1), Likhovtseva (2)


Alicia Molik: 11-12 (48%)

Wins: Mauresmo (1), Myskina (2), Dementieva (1), Zvonareva (1), Petrova (1), Sugiyama (1), Schiavone (1), Farina Elia (3)
Losses: Davenport (2), Mauresmo (2), Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (3), Sharapova (1), V.Williams (1), Petrova (1), Schiavone (1)


Silvia Farina Elia: 5-18 (22%)

Wins: Sharapova (1), Schnyder (1), Sprem (2), Likhovtseva (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (4), Kuznetsova (1), Capriati (1), Clijsters (3), Petrova (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Schiavone (1), Molik (3)


Nathalie Dechy: 7-18 (28%)

Wins: Kuznetsova (1), Capriati (1), Zvonareva (1), Sugiyama (1), Zuluaga (2), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (1), Myskina (1), Henin-Hardenne (1), Capriati (1), Zvonareva (3), Petrova (3), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Schiavone (3)


Elena Likhovtseva: 9-14 (39%)

Wins: Myskina (2), Capriati (1), Zvonareva (1), Petrova (2), Schiavone (2), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Mauresmo (1), Myskina (3), Kuznetsova (1), Dementieva (1), S.Williams (1), V.Williams (1), Sugiyama (2), Schiavone (1), Farina Elia (1), Zuluaga (1), Maleeva (1)


Fabiola Zuluaga: 4-12 (25%)

Wins: Zvonareva (1), Sugiyama (1), Suarez (1), Likhovtseva (1)
Losses: Kuznetsova (1), Henin-Hardenne (1), V.Williams (2), Zvonareva (1), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (1), Schiavone (1), Dechy (2), Likhovtseva (1)


Magdalena Maleeva: 4-12 (25%)

Wins: Sugiyama (1), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Likhovtseva (1)
Losses: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (2), Myskina (1), Clijsters (2), V.Williams (1), Sugiyama (1), Sprem (2), Dechy (1), Schnyder (1)



Stats from www.wtatour.com (http://www.wtatour.com/) player activity sheets. Includes fed cup, qualifying and main draw matches. Not including walkovers.

The Top 5 Are:

1. Justine Henin-Hardenne (81%)
2. Lindsay Davenport (79%)
3. Kim Clijsters (78%)
4. Amelie Mauresmo (74%)
5. Serena Williams (70%)

I'm just really proud of Alicia this year....she's had some great wins and some very very close losses.

Her 3 losses to Kuznetsova were in 3 sets and her loss to Myskina was also 3 sets.

I just hope she can keep this up!!!

Yeah Alicia has played awesome this year. It's easily her best year on tour, and she got into the top 20. First Aussie to be there in 20-odd years.

Interesting...thx!!!

For a top-10 player, Sharapova's record is not as good as i would have thought.....

For a top-10 player, Sharapova's record is not as good as i would have thought.....


ssssh....:secret:

:worship: Bandabou you are so smart!!!

...

:rolleyes:

ssssh....:secret:

:lol:

The Top 5 Are:

1. Justine Henin-Hardenne (81%)
2. Lindsay Davenport (79%)
3. Kim Clijsters (78%)
4. Amelie Mauresmo (74%)
5. Serena Williams (70%)
I wont consider Justine and Kim records here as acurate and reliable.
They hardly play tournaments.

I can beat a top 25 player just once and be at 100%.

Lets just count the number of times you won over the top 25 player thats where the real ranking goes.

Maria Sharapova:

Losses: Myskina (3)

:lol:

Lets just count the number of times you won over the top 25 player thats where the real ranking goes.
The only problem with that is that some players were injured for like 6 months of the year so only played against about 25 players only 10 times, compared to other players who've played against them 30 times in the year.......

The real rankings:


Lindsay Davenport: 27-7 (79%)

Wins: Mauresmo (2), Myskina (2), Dementieva (2), S.Williams (1), V.Williams (3), Zvonareva (4), Petrova (2), Sugiyama (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (2), Bovina (1), Schiavone (1), Molik (2), Farina Elia (1), Dechy (1), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (1), Dementieva (1), Henin-Hardenne (2), Sharapova (1), Schnyder (1)


Amelie Mauresmo: 26-9 (74%)

Wins: Myskina (1), Kuznetsova (3), Henin-Hardenne (1), Capriati (1), Zvonareva (2), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Sprem (1), Bovina (1), Schiavone (3), Molik (2), Farina Elia (4), Dechy (1), Likhovtseva (1), Maleeva (2)
Losses: Davenport (2), Dementieva (2), Henin-Hardenne (2), S.Williams (1), Schiavone (1), Molik (1)


Anastasia Myskina: 20-11 (65%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Kuznetsova (2), Dementieva (2), Sharapova (3), Capriati (2), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (2), Schiavone (1), Molik (1), Dechy (1), Likhovtseva (3), Maleeva (1)
Losses: Davenport (2), Mauresmo (1), Henin-Hardenne (2), Capriati (1), Clijsters (1), Molik (2), Likhovtseva (2)


Svetlana Kuznetsova: 23-16 (59%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Dementieva (2), Henin-Hardenne (1), Sharapova (1), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (2), Petrova (2), Sugiyama (2), Schnyder (1), Bovina (2), Schiavone (2), Molik (3), Farina Elia (1), Likhovtseva (1), Zuluaga (1)
Losses: Mauresmo (3), Myskina (2), Dementieva (2), Henin-Hardenne (3), S.Williams (2), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (1), Sprem (1), Dechy (1)


Elena Dementieva: 15-12 (56%)

Wins: Davenport (1), Mauresmo (2), Kuznetsova (2), Capriati (1), V.Williams (1), Zvonareva (1), Petrova (1), Schnyder (1), Suarez (1), Bovina (3), Likhovtseva (1)
Losses: Davenport (2), Myskina (2), Kuznetsova (2), Sharapova (1), S.Williams (2), Schnyder (1), Bovina (1), Molik (1)

The only problem with that is that some players were injured for like 6 months of the year so only played against about 25 players only 10 times, compared to other players who've played against them 30 times in the year.......
Injury is part of being an athlete and no one is exempted. Everyone was injured at her own time.

:worship: Bandabou you are so smart!!!

...

:rolleyes:


i know.....but what makes you see it just now?

It's also interesting that Maria has only faced top 25 players 17 times to Davenports 34...

If your rank the top 25 players against one another taking into account how many players each top 25 player beat and how many players each top 25 player lost against (in the top 25)- this is what you get.

1 Serena Williams: (73%) w-11 /l-4

2. Lindsay Davenport: (73%) w-16/l-6

2. Justine Henin-Hardenne: (*73%) w-8/ l-3

4. Amelie Mauresmo: (71%) w-15/l-6

5. Kim Clijsters: (67%) w-4, l-2

6. Anastasia Myskina: (63%) w-12/l-7

7. Jennifer Capriati: (63%) w-10 /l-6

7. Svetlana Kuznetsova: (*63%) w-15/ l-9

9. Venus Williams: (60%) w-9/ l-6

10. Elena Dementieva: (58%) w-11/ l-8

11. Francesca Schiavone: (50%) w-10, l-10

11. Maria Sharapova: (*50%) w-7/ l-7

13.Alicia Molik: (47%) w-7, l-8

13. Elena Bovina: (*47%) w-7, l-8

15. Paola Suarez: (44%) w-7, l-9

15. Karolina Sprem: (*44%) w-7, l-9

Nadia Petrova: (40%) w-6, l-9
Vera Zvonareva: (38%) w-8 /l-13
Elena Likhovtseva: (35%) w-6, l-11
Nathalie Dechy: (33%) w-6, l-12
Patty Schnyder: (33%) w-5, l-10
Fabiola Zuluaga: (31%) w-4, l-9
Magdalena Maleeva: (31%) w-4, l-9
Ai Sugiyama: (27%) w-4, l-11
Silvia Farina Elia: (27%) w-4, l-11
(* tied with the above)

Ranking them using this way shows a better reflection of how each player faired against the field as a whole because multiple losses to one single opponent only count once and don't distort the numbers as much. The same goes for multiple wins against one single player. In the original way of looking at the numbers if a player beats Sugiyama 10 times it looks like that player has 10 wins against a top 25 player, which is true- but distorts a players overall record against the field. My way of ranking has many flaws as well, but it's not skewed one way or other with regards to giving one player more weight than another...basically it's just another way of viewing the same data.

Either way you slice it, the top 5 remain unchanged (of course the order is different, but it's still the same top 5 as the original format).

If your rank the top 25 players against one another taking into account how many players each top 25 player beat and how many players each top 25 player lost against (in the top 25)- this is what you get.

1 Serena Williams: (73%) w-11 /l-4

2. Lindsay Davenport: (73%) w-16/l-6

2. Justine Henin-Hardenne: (*73%) w-8/ l-3

4. Amelie Mauresmo: (71%) w-15/l-6

5. Kim Clijsters: (67%) w-4, l-2

6. Anastasia Myskina: (63%) w-12/l-7

7. Jennifer Capriati: (63%) w-10 /l-6

7. Svetlana Kuznetsova: (*63%) w-15/ l-9

9. Venus Williams: (60%) w-9/ l-6

10. Elena Dementieva: (58%) w-11/ l-8

11. Francesca Schiavone: (50%) w-10, l-10

11. Maria Sharapova: (*50%) w-7/ l-7

13.Alicia Molik: (47%) w-7, l-8

13. Elena Bovina: (*47%) w-7, l-8

15. Paola Suarez: (44%) w-7, l-9

15. Karolina Sprem: (*44%) w-7, l-9

Nadia Petrova: (40%) w-6, l-9
Vera Zvonareva: (38%) w-8 /l-13
Elena Likhovtseva: (35%) w-6, l-11
Nathalie Dechy: (33%) w-6, l-12
Patty Schnyder: (33%) w-5, l-10
Fabiola Zuluaga: (31%) w-4, l-9
Magdalena Maleeva: (31%) w-4, l-9
Ai Sugiyama: (27%) w-4, l-11
Silvia Farina Elia: (27%) w-4, l-11
(* tied with the above)

Ranking them using this way shows a better reflection of how each player faired against the field as a whole because multiple losses to one single opponent only count once and don't distort the numbers as much. The same goes for multiple wins against one single player. In the original way of looking at the numbers if a player beats Sugiyama 10 times it looks like that player has 10 wins against a top 25 player, which is true- but distorts a players overall record against the field. My way of ranking has many flaws as well, but it's not skewed one way or other with regards to giving one player more weight than another...basically it's just another way of viewing the same data.

Either way you slice it, the top 5 remain unchanged (of course the order is different, but it's still the same top 5 as the original format).
Yes buts its completely illogical.

1.You can only beat who turns up to play you .If its the same player all the time why should you suffer in this ranking. Graf would score lowly because she kept on beating ASV in finals whilst someone playing Tier3s every week against different players would do well..

2.The person who you beat once can beat you next time (ask Lindsay in Moscow) so its still the same achievement to beat them more than once.

3. You would give the same credit for beating a player once as you gave the other player for beating you 5 times.

4. Like the original sysytem there is a problem with players who do not play much. If you play 3 matches a year against top 25 players and win you would get 100%. Not playing except when you are peaking to win makes it more likely your score will be higher and not playing means other people by definition cannot beat you.

5. A good test of a system is whether it produces a sensible or absurd result. Serena being ranked first or third is a very absurd result either way given her 2004 results. Her ranking is about right at present for what she has done.

Yes buts its completely illogical.

1.You can only beat who turns up to play you .If its the same player all the time why should you suffer in this ranking. Graf would score lowly because she kept on beating ASV in finals whilst someone playing Tier3s every week against different players would do well..

2.The person who you beat once can beat you next time (ask Lindsay in Moscow) so its still the same achievement to beat them more than once.

3. You would give the same credit for beating a player once as you gave the other player for beating you 5 times.

4. Like the original sysytem there is a problem with players who do not play much. If you play 3 matches a year against top 25 players and win you would get 100%. Not playing except when you are peaking to win makes it more likely your score will be higher and not playing means other people by definition cannot beat you.

5. A good test of a system is whether it produces a sensible or absurd result. Serena being ranked first or third is a very absurd result either way given her 2004 results. Her ranking is about right at present for what she has done.
:worship:

Yes buts its completely illogical.

1.You can only beat who turns up to play you .If its the same player all the time why should you suffer in this ranking. Graf would score lowly because she kept on beating ASV in finals whilst someone playing Tier3s every week against different players would do well..

2.The person who you beat once can beat you next time (ask Lindsay in Moscow) so its still the same achievement to beat them more than once.

3. You would give the same credit for beating a player once as you gave the other player for beating you 5 times.

4. Like the original sysytem there is a problem with players who do not play much. If you play 3 matches a year against top 25 players and win you would get 100%. Not playing except when you are peaking to win makes it more likely your score will be higher and not playing means other people by definition cannot beat you.

5. A good test of a system is whether it produces a sensible or absurd result. Serena being ranked first or third is a very absurd result either way given her 2004 results. Her ranking is about right at present for what she has done.

I think I've been misunderstood. There's nothing wrong with the orginal format- I actually enjoyed reading it and thought the list was informative and entertaining... (thank you thread starter- I love these kinds of threads). I was meerly using the info and presenting the information from a totally different standpoint- not a more accurate one or a better one, just a different one. I even went as far to acknowled that my way of viewing things was a flawed way- so there's no point in picking apart what I've done as if I was challenging the original format or even suggesting that the way I listed was any better. I simply pointed out that looking at the opponents records in the way that I've done gives another perspective on how you can view things.

"It's also interesting that Maria has only faced top 25 players 17 times to Davenports 34..."-brunof
- but to say that Maria played 25 players and Davenport played 34 (in the top 25) isn't accurate. Maria played 14 and LindZ played 22... They played 34 and 17 matches, but only 14 and 22 players- Two different things. The original format counts matches, my format counts players...

I actually thought the threadstarter would appreciate another look, but when I see him/her giving praise to someone who states my way of looking at things is completly illogical then obviously he/she didn't get the spirit of my post. I was trying to add to your thread, nothing more...

In regards to Serena she falls where she falls- whether it's first or third isn't really up for debate, it is what it is- period. As for her ranking accurately reflecting where she currently stands I actually think that whatever her ranking ends up being after the YEC will be a better reflection of where she is, than where she is currently ranked. Just for the simple fact she would have played from March- November, and the more tournaments counted toward her overall ranking produces a more accurate representation with regards to her ranking. If you notice after each tournament she plays her ranking tends to improve....

I actually thought the threadstarter would appreciate another look, but when I see him/her giving praise to someone who states my way of looking at things is completly illogical then obviously he/she didn't get the spirit of my post. I was trying to add to your thread, nothing more...


I wasn't trying to put down your stats at all...i was merely agreeing with fammmedspin's post...i thought that he/she made a lot of good statements (and he/she wasn't simply stating that there were flaws in your system, but in mine also and in the real ranks)...i was just agreeing and happy cause he/she showed a lot of common sense and appeared to appreciate how these rankings/systems really work...it was nice to come across someone who understands how things work ;).....plus i was trying to bump the thread up ;) lol

I do thank you for your point of view and your stats, and i can definitely see where u were coming from with them. Just because Davenport has defeated Zvonareva 4 times ofcourse we can't say she's beaten 4 top-25 players, they are two different things......and it may simply mean that her game matches up well against Vera's and they have drawn each other a few times this year. There is no perfect system - each one will have flaws. Yours does and mine does too, but they simply provide interesting ways of looking at stats and that's why i thank you for ur contribution...it was interesting to see how it changed the list.

5. A good test of a system is whether it produces a sensible or absurd result. Serena being ranked first or third is a very absurd result either way given her 2004 results. Her ranking is about right at present for what she has done.

why would it be absurd? You act like Serena hasn´t been beating top 25 players the whole year...

interesting

I think it's funny how both QUEENLINDSAY and Stefwit found systems that put their favs at the top of the list.

i will update this once the zurich qf's are complete...

i hope patty and alicia can improve their records with a win! ;)

Justine for player of the year, please.:mad:

Updated including Elena d. Ai and Maria d. Venus

Updated with Schnyder's win...

This week Schnyder went from 4-10 (29%) to 7-10 (41%)

Nice work Patty!!!

Updated including all Zurich QF's.

Schnyder from 4-10 to 7-10 this week!

Molik from 8-12 to 11-12 this week!

Great weeks for both of them!

ewww @ vera!