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View Full Version : Martina, that was NOTHING !


GoDominiqu
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:15 AM
I'm really shocked about the shameful performance Martina delivered today. That has nothing to do with the fact that Daniela won, even if she had choked and lost the match I would write this.

I mean, was it her game-plan to play EVERY damn ball in the middle of the court, in comfortable height so that Daniela can put them away ? I don't think so. In fact it looked like she didn't have ANY game-plan. She did EVERYTHING wrong:

She showed no motivation.
She looked frustrated.
She didn't change anything during the match.
She seemed to be pessimistic from the beginning.

She did everything to make Daniela look good. Does she expect that she would beat Lindsay, Venus, Serena, Jennifer with a performance like that ? It looked like SHE was the newcomer, totally overwhelmed by the occasion.

To summarise: It was just dumb play. From now on I have even more doubts that Martina will win another big title.

rhz
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:17 AM
Daniela was just too good today!

GoDominiqu
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:20 AM
No, that's not true. Daniela had a lot of errors. She was beatable.
But not with such a bad performance. It seemd like it was Martina's aim to play exactly how Daniela likes it, and that's a shame for a former no. 1 who is often called the smartest player on tour.

nikita771
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:21 AM
To me - Martina didn't do anything differently than the other players did. She played well, but Daniela played better. Martina hit some interesting shots, but they just weren't enough to take out this young woman. Daniela won this match outright. Martina didn't hand it to her by giving her easy balls to put away.

Volcana
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:24 AM
nikita - Any ball within the sidelines that bounced higher than the top of the net was an 'easy ball to put away'. That was the problem.

smygelfh
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:24 AM
No, Daniela didn't play superbly. She played good, missed a lot but also played with good pressure. And she put away those shots you have to put away when playing against a good player. Of course, everyone but Hingis saw after one game that hitting short balls in the middle, for Hantuchova's backhand to kill off, was a bad idea.

Oizo
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:30 AM
Daniela played amazing good you goofy people, and you should respect that !!!!!:p :p :p :p
She gave Hingis a Tennis Lesson !!!!:p :p :p
Well done Daniela, you are a true champion!!!!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
And a smart one too ;)

treufreund
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:30 AM
Yeah that's why I said Martina will now know a little bit more of her game. I think when she is getting beaten pretty badly she doesn't always think so clearly about how to change the strategy and then when she changes it around she misses one and abandons the plan. She really did well coming to the net but I think she feels that it can only be an occasional sneak play but really she should be doing it on about a third of the points instead of 10%. She will have time to think about this player and how to handle her.

Martina lost five in a row to Lindsay and then started beating her and then lost three in a row to jenn, then had match points but still lost it but had at least showed me that she knew how to play her.

GoDominiqu
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:34 AM
You know, Martina is neither Gaglardi nor Raymond NOR Henin.

She is a former no. 1 with one hell of experience.

When there's a young who is trying to blast her away, you expect that Martina comes up with ideas to change the pace, attack etc.
You don't expect that she just goes on with her game and waits what will happen. But that's exactly what she did.

What disturbs me the most is that she didn't BELIEVE in victory one single time. She had 40-15 leads in service-games multiple times and lost it. That indicates no confidence. But WHY ? Daniela's results so far were not that intimidating.

Aci79
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:37 AM
It is true that Daniela had lots of errors, but she had lots of winners too..
She basically played aggressive through out! She did not hold back except the 2 games before she finally closed out the very last game to win the match.

Well.. it is nothing new with Martina lately.. she has been having trouble with her mental game.. not having the edge in that area kills her.
Hopefully she'll find her true self soon!

But.. tumbs up for Daniela! Good performance today!

GoDominiqu
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:37 AM
I forgot: It's one thing to change your tactics during a match when losing, but come on, Daniela's game wasn't unknown before the match ! Evberyone knew that she had a fabulous backhand.
Martina should have had a proper tactic from the beginning of the match to avoid that shot.

Kart
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:38 AM
I can't believe I'm defending Martina after she beat Monica :( but ...

She showed no motivation.

I don't think so.

She looked frustrated.

Wouldn't you ?

She didn't change anything during the match.

That's not fair - she started going to net a bit more and going for her shots but I agree she left it until like the last two games or something.

She seemed to be pessimistic from the beginning.

I don't know - she was smiling and set, but after Daniela started blasting all those winners and it was clear that Martina's game plan was not going to work, I think she did lose the plot a bit.


My conclusion : it was not Martina's best performance, but frankly Daniela played the match of her life so far so I think we can forgive Martina for being just a little shellshocked.

xan
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:40 AM
It was Martina's fault she lost. She just wasn't the same player who beat Monica the day before. I am a Daniela fan, but I expected to see her defeated today. Instead Martina blew it, and has lost some of the hard-won credibility she was building up.

GoDominique is right, she just kept hitting balls down the centre of the court, getting them back in play, hoping that Daniela would fall apart and make the errors.

Instead Daniela stayed in the rallies until she could blast an unreachable winner into one of the corners. By the time Martina changed her tactics and started hitting harder and coming in, she was two breaks down in the final set.

Daniela might have been beatable today. her serve wasn't working at all. She usually gets around six aces a match and a lot of service winners. What she proved is that she can win without her big serve working for her.

Martina fell back into her old ways today. Hopefully she knows it, and why she lost. I think she went into this match too desperate for a Tier 1 title, and froze.

bee
Mar 17th, 2002, 02:43 AM
Well.. these things happened...

That is why people watches tennis.. because unexpected things could happen on court.... Nobody would care if the same people win all the time..

Martina.. should get over this... ;) :p :angel: :kiss:

GoDominiqu
Mar 17th, 2002, 03:01 AM
I wouldn't say anything if this was the first loss of that kind, but it's not. Martina should have learned already that playing like a coward won't bring her titles.

TheBoiledEgg
Mar 17th, 2002, 03:08 AM
Martina was to timid, had no punch at all, and just seemed happy to let Daniela blast her away.

she just kept hitting balls up and down middle of court and hoped Daniela would start missing (which she did but it was too late then)

That might work against others but Daniela has got the lot.

joao
Mar 17th, 2002, 03:12 AM
WOOOHHHHOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!! I am SOOOOOOO HAPPY!!!!!!!!! That was a very fun and exciting match to watch!!!! HAntuchova did exactly what she was supposed to do against Hingis...... be agressive all the time and keep her focus!!!! The match was on her hands since the 1st point and she just won it! What an amazing stats! HAntuchova had 30 winners (specially from the backhand side) from a variety of shots!
you know what???? i think Hantuchova is like Hingis but with power .... which makes her very very dangerous! Watch out girls in the top10! One of you will have to say bye-bye and let HAntuchova in!!!! If she keeps that level, she'll definitely be in the top10 by the end of the year!!!!!

Well done Hantuchova! After taking Venus to a 3-setter at the AO, she now has 2 wins over a top10 this year!

She definitely gave a big tennis lesson to Hingis today!!!!!

Hingis was denied a 3rd title again this year! Her record still is one of the best out-there though (after Venus heheheheheh) ..... she's now 21-3, 2 titles, 2 lost finals, 1 lost SF... but already a loss to a non-top10 player!!!! But I have to say that Hantuchova was today in the mood to beat anyone!

Congrats Hantuchova....I'm gonna follow your career very closely now!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

xan
Mar 17th, 2002, 03:24 AM
The most impressive thing was that Daniela won so convincingly while NOT playing at her best. Her serve was off and she made a good number of errors, but was able to stay in the rallies with Martina and win them with her first-strike forehand and backhand winners.

Martina USED to be able to figure a new player out in the first few games, then develop a strategy to beat her. She didn't do it today.

harloo
Mar 17th, 2002, 03:33 AM
Xan you hit the nail right on the head. She was saying Please self destruct Daniela, but it didn't happen at all. How many times can you go down the middle, or to the body. It was like she was waiting for something to happen, being passive and not going for the winner. I was like What the hell is she doing?

moon
Mar 17th, 2002, 05:26 AM
Martina playing passive tennis + aggressive power player = Martina losing the match.

Dawn Marie
Mar 17th, 2002, 05:42 AM
Daniela played Hingis at her own game but with more pace. First of all with the way the wind was blowing Hingis's shot probably weren't strong enough for Daniela. She hit right thru the wind with pace right back at Hingis.

Also I think many are really underestimating Daniela's return game. She put alot of pressure on Hingis's serve. ALOT. And when you look at the rally's you can see that Daniela is a controlled power player. She didn't miss alot more so then make winners. No the truth to this match is simple.

Daniela used great ball control she moved Hingis all around the court just as Hingis does everyone else. Actually imho I think this is the first power player with excellent change of direction ball and control then I have ever seen. That was key.. cause if one can move Hingis around like Hingis does and can also use power it will be deadly. don't even get me started on her finesse.. she also hit a sweet drop shot that Hingis had no chance at what so ever. Hingis is a talented player. ..but this imho is one player that I think can really give her fits. She is more then just power.

Whoo her hands are deadly folks! I call em like I see em.. cause I love tennis. This is the first power player who imho has skillz of ball direction like Hingis. I mean imho she is the only player on tour who has hands like Hingis and power like Venus. DAYUM!

MARTI's FAN
Mar 17th, 2002, 05:54 AM
C'mon is just a lost, martina is playing very well so far this season, it just that daniela had nothing to lose, she just goes for her shots everytime, made a lot of errors, but winners too, it was a good day for her, and martina didn't play good, that's normal, she's a human being just like us, and she's not perfect, it wasn't her day.The important thing is that martina is playing well, is being consistant, she won against monica this past 3 times, she stays positive, and she understand that daniela deserves that, and that's it.C'mon martina's fans let support her always, she's a true champion, it wasn't her day that's all, and she knows that.We need to understant that martina is not like daniela.Daniela is starting in this carreer, and martina is such a legend in the marking so far, and she has a lot of years in front of her, the pressure this time was on her because she was the 2 seed and dani just took some risk on that match, maybe if martina did that in the match, maybe she had lost very badly, because is not her style of play.Well martina forget that, just look forward to the next tournament, i'll be there supporting you, my idol, it will be the best moment of my life, i love you, and you're still the best, simply the best.

good luck our QUEEN!!!!!!

daNieLa iS cUtE
Mar 17th, 2002, 12:58 PM
I posted this on another thread on Tuesday...

IMO, Daniela has all the tools necessary to be one of the top players in the near future.

She's 5'11" with a booming serve and hits very heavy shots of both wings. Power players can't blow her off the court. She knows how to work the ball around in rallies.

A major factor is that she actually LIKES to play at the net, as she has gone on record saying that she likes to serve and volley, but doesn't do it often because of the quality of the returns from the top players. However, this can be helped with self confidence, and her game is nowhere near being fully developed yet. Of course, I don't for one second believe she'll be an all out attacking player, but rather an all-court player who's adept at the net as well as from the back of the court. This will give her an edge over most of the girls, as almost all of them don't like to volley(or so it seems anyway).

Perhaps the most important asset is her ability to think on the court. She's a smart girl. Read the interview from the Schett match at IW, she was quick to acknowledge a difficulty in winning games at one end of the court, and even more impressive, she acted on it. Watching the doubles final at the Australian Open, she was exposing Sanchez-Vicario in the first set with poor positioning early on, but again, took initiative, and started covering her partner more often.

Also, she has bags of courage, and does not fear anyone. In fact, she seems to relish playing against the top players. She is fiesty, seems like she likes a scrap, and has incredible self belief that's seemingly unshakable.

IMHO, the most telling factors are her mental toughness and her understanding of the game and its dynamics.

All that said, she isn't the most mobile player out there, and sometimes looks a bit sluggish(am I being harsh?). But having had a major breakthrough against Henin, she'll be high on confidence, and perhaps this is the tourney that will see her emerge from her 'shell' and realise the potential.

Plus, she's still only 18. And she's gorgeous! ;) :drool: :kiss:

thefreedesigner
Mar 17th, 2002, 01:43 PM
Might as well join the party - even if I am late.

I must say that I was shocked that even at the half-way point of the first set, Martina hadn't yet figured that her initial tactic was not going to work. I don't blame Martina for starting out defensive, trying to push Daniela into the mistakes, maybe not trying to do too much.

But it was obvious that 1) Daniela moved much better than Martina's shots were giving her credit for 2) That Daniela had the execution of more shots than Martina was giving her credit for.

And yet she didn't really change this? Daniela did play well, BUT Martina allowed her to, allowed Daniela (through absolutely namby-pamby play) to feel her way into the match.... a chance which Dani took with alacrity.

Daniela didn't play the best that I've seen her at all just stepped it up with the killer shot when Martina got herself caught.

Dani played a great match, if not great tennis, but I honestly can't believe Martina's performance and attitude in the first set. It was totally weird, gotta say.

Doris Loeffel
Mar 18th, 2002, 09:18 AM
O.K. it might not have been Martinas day. But as much as I like to defend her I can't....

Have to agree in most points with GoDominique. After she lost her first service game there the air was gone...

Martinas body language wasn't the one of a determined player. And really her play just was like the many ones we've seen agaisnt the powerplayers last year. Martina just wasn't going for the shots. Sometimes she even looked afraid to me. She had a lot of oportunities to go for the lines as well but she just hit a bit left or a bit right from the middle waiting for the opponent to make the errors. Which obwiously didn't work.

Gee Martina you can play better than that!!

But I have also to admit that Daniela played grat. Taking every little chance she got. Concrats for a great win!!

And please Martina get your mind together!! You'll never beat a top playser going through the middle. They got smarter as well you know!!

Scorpion
Mar 18th, 2002, 10:46 AM
I've just watched the match on tape.. Martina was definitely playing like when she was in the slump last year... No game plan, no determination, absolutely playing extremely defensive and boring tennis!! :o

I was like watching Martina practicing with Daniela, hitting the balls right back to Daniela's hitting zone most of the time!!! She was like hanging in there, praying for Daniela to make some unforced errors but with no fighting spiritis to try to get back into the match!!! All she liked to do during the match was to put up a mocking face when Daniela missed some easy short balls, but also show up a helpless look :p when Daniela making all those incredible double-backhand down the line and angle passing shots!!! It's funny to watch her facial expressions for the whole match!!!

I'm very happy for Daniela's victory!! Her first title.... A Tier I title... A victory over former world no.1.... what a dream to come true for such a youngster!!! :hearts:

louisa2k2
Mar 18th, 2002, 11:39 AM
hey, i still cant watch tennis cos im still at uni. this doesnt sound good though. when i went to hingis.org and all i could read was post after post about how pathetic she played, i wasnt sure about coming here. It sounds like the martina of last year - at the end when she looked like she had no interest in being on the court whether she won or lost. n e way hopefully ill see for myself when she plays the nasdaq 100.

Chibuku14
Mar 18th, 2002, 12:59 PM
Okay, it is over. Hantushova defeated Hingis. But we should
remember that Hingis doesn't have that much power but she
has the game to beat anybody.
I am just thinking this girl(hantushova) should be a Henin type
of win over Venus Williams in Germany. The topic was Henin
tought Venus tennis lesson. But since then no one said something
like again. This could be the same of Hantushova. Let us wait
and see if she can repeat that next time they meet.

Hingis, Venus, Serena, Davenport, Jen and Seles are the best
on the WTA right now but some terrible thing can happen at
some time one of which we witnessed in the IW finals.
Not being Hingis' fan, I am not sure if this girl can beat Hingis if they hapen to meet again.

RAA
Mar 18th, 2002, 02:13 PM
Daniela clearly played the best match of her young career.
Hingis played like she did against Serena in Scottsdale - with NO fire and no aggression. Although Hingis is not one of my faves, I used to really love watching her because she was a FIGHTER! you could never count her out and she would always find ways to win matches. that is still true, but to a lesser extent. and in the biggest events, she doesn't exhibit that go-for-broke attitude that i love to see.
Anyway, congrats to Daniela. I'm looking forward to seeing more of her. And hingis is still having a good year with two titles.
Ruth in philly pa usa

lambosoa
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:04 PM
However unexpectable Hantuchova's win might seem, it's quite something normal to me for many reasons :
1) As a fan, Hantuchova has had the opportunity of studying Hingis's game for years and analyse Martina's weaknesses. That's not quite the case for Martina who played her in singles for the first time.
2) Martina hit in the middle of the court precisely in order not give angles to Hantuchova who likes playing from the corners (a bit like Myskina, for example).
3) Maybe, Hingis's hunger for this title was not as strong as Hantuchova's, but we cannot say she was not motivated.

So the point is Hantuchova IS A GREAT PLAYER, and she totally destabilized Hingis in that match. Then she won, naturally. No question of Martina playing bad tennis. Martina played just like she always used to and that was not enough for this final. Period.

(And please note that I am one of Martina Hingis's fans)

Daniel
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:08 PM
Daniela played a good match, but it was Martina's apathy the whole match that helped Daniela to win. I am not sure if Martina will win another big title again. She played with no motivation, and that is so so so so bad.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

vw43
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:13 PM
Daniela played a hell of a match and nothing was given to her by any means. She was calm, played aggressively and overpowered Hingis.

I will say that I was disappointed in Hingis' play and I am by no means a Hingis fan. I thought she gave up very quickly and resigned herself to losing. That is not the Hingis who was #1. I also thought Hingis would have had better results if she would have come to the net more...

Clearly Daniela's win but do agree Martina could have done more.


Nice Match Daniela...

thefreedesigner
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:16 PM
For me, this issue is fairly closed.

But lambosoa, I think it's being totally fair to say that Martina turned up to that match with nothing to offer.

I don't think anybody has said that Daniela didn't play a great match, and even if (big 'if' it would seem) that Martina had come into the match with something to offer, I'm not saying that Martina would have blown Dani away, or even have won the match.

Daniel
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:19 PM
That is the point. Martina since the beginning of the match had a loser attitude, which helped Daniela to win it. Daniela played a good match, but it was shame to watch Martina playing like that.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Fingon
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by GoDominique
You know, Martina is neither Gaglardi nor Raymond NOR Henin.

She is a former no. 1 with one hell of experience.

When there's a young who is trying to blast her away, you expect that Martina comes up with ideas to change the pace, attack etc.
You don't expect that she just goes on with her game and waits what will happen. But that's exactly what she did.

What disturbs me the most is that she didn't BELIEVE in victory one single time. She had 40-15 leads in service-games multiple times and lost it. That indicates no confidence. But WHY ? Daniela's results so far were not that intimidating.

I didn't see the match :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: , but that sounds a lot as the Martina of the last two years, and the reason while she fell to # 2 in my list of favourites :mad:

Daniel
Mar 18th, 2002, 03:21 PM
Definitely, she needs more confidence , she can't go into a final with a negative attitude.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)