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Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:33 PM
Tiger Weds! Nanny Elin Bags Her Man

Golf superstar Tiger Woods is getting into the swing of married life. The former world No.1 has tied the knot with nanny Elin Nordegren. The pair married at a golf club, naturally, in the exclusive Barbados resort of Sandy Lane.Tiger is thought to have spent close on £1 million booking out the country club hotel for nine nights to ensure privacy.

The grounds were patrolled by guards and coastguards scoured the beach.

Elin wore a white flowing gown and Tiger a biege suit with brown shoes, as around 100 guests drank chilled champagne and ate caviar.

Family and friends mingled with guests said to include Venus and Serena Williams, Oprah Winfrey, Britney Spears and Bill Gates.

The couple met in Britain at the Open three years ago, when Elin was working as a nanny to golfer Jesper Parnevik's children.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/041006/140/f40sd.html

I found this on another board:
It's nice to hear that the sisters were Tiger's guests at his wedding. Tiger once made a very sincere comment about his meeting Venus Williams. Said that he was impressed with her statuesque beauty, and that he would "never forget her."

Sweet. :)

Helen Lawson
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:35 PM
I was invited, too, but when I saw Britney Spears on the guest list, I just sent a gift instead.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:42 PM
I was invited, too, but when I saw Britney Spears on the guest list, I just sent a gift instead.
:lol:

pav
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:54 PM
zzzzz@ wedding double zzzzz @ guests

LUXXXAS
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:02 PM
Hmmmm now we all know why Serena withdrew from Filderstadt:) I hope she fully recovered from her knee injury when she was dancing :lol:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:05 PM
zzzzz@ wedding double zzzzz @ guests

:p

V&S and Oprah! :cool:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:06 PM
Hmmmm now we all know why Serena withdrew from Filderstadt:) I hope she fully recovered from her knee injury when she was dancing :lol:

;)

venusfan
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:12 PM
The heck with the wedding.. something just turns me off about Tiger and his swedish blond trophy.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:12 PM
I was invited, too, but when I saw Britney Spears on the guest list, I just sent a gift instead.
:lol: :tape: :lol: :tape: :lol:

I notice that they said Britney Spears, but not her new "husband"

That would also explain why Serena dropped out of Fielderstadt and Venus didn't bother entering in her place. I am suprised that either would be at Tiger's wedding; I thought Earl Woods couldn't stand Richard Williams, considering some of the things he said about Richard in the past.

Beat
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Britney Spears and Bill Gates.

run for the hills! :scared:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:17 PM
I am suprised that either would be at Tiger's wedding; I thought Earl Woods couldn't stand Richard Williams, considering some of the things he said about Richard in the past.

It was Tiger's wedding, not Earl's.

And from what I've heard and Tiger
has said, he's quite fond of V&S.

Also, just because the father's may not like
one another doesn't mean the kids have to get
all caught up in their mess.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:18 PM
The heck with the wedding.. something just turns me off about Tiger and his swedish blond trophy.

Why would you expect anything less form a man who looks black, is part black, is ashamed to be considered black and is suessful? Believe me, someone in his position wouldn't have married a black nanny.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:19 PM
Why would you expect anything less form a man who looks black, is part black, is ashamed to be considered black and is suessful? Believe me, someone in his position wouldn't have married a black nanny.

And here we go again! :rolleyes:

Heaven forbid that people be allowed
to marry whom they wish and love
because of someone else's issues.

Wish them all the best! :cool:

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:20 PM
It was Tiger's wedding, not Earl's.

And from what I've heard and Tiger
has said, he's quite fond of V&S.

Also, just because the father's may not like
one another doesn't mean the kids have to get
all caught up in their mess.

I am aware of that, but it is common knowldege that Earl runs or attempts to run Tiger's life, so I wouldn't have been surprised if he tried to tell him who to invite to his own wedding.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:22 PM
And here we go again! :rolleyes:

Heaven forbid that people be allowed
to marry whom they wish and love
because of someone else's issues.

Wish them all the best! :cool:

Sorry if you don't like what I have to say. I am not politically correct and did not and do not like the fact that he is ashamed to be part black.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:23 PM
I am aware of that, but it is common knowldege that Earl runs or attempts to run Tiger's life, so I wouldn't have been surprised if he tried to tell him who to invite to his own wedding.

Well, Tiger is now a grown man in his late 20's
and can make his own decision's and tell papa
to please butt out! :cool:

Besides, he may not like Richard but,
does he have anything against the girls?
Why would he?

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Sorry if you don't like what I have to say. I am not politically correct and did not and do not like the fact that he is ashamed to be part black.

And you know this how?

It's one thing to be black and quite another to be bi-racial
and constantly being ridiculed because people can't handle
the fact that you aren't one thing and don't allow yourself
to be labeled as such!

Have you ever had to deal with not being enough this or
that as a kid and hearing about it in some way, shape,
or form almost every day?

If you have, then please get back to me!

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Well, Tiger is now a grown man in his late 20's
and can make his own decision's and tell papa
to please butt out! :cool:

Besides, he may not like Richard but,
does he have anything against the girls?
Why would he?

It' about time he did that.

He was supposed to marry some medical studen that looks exactly like his new wife, but his parents sabotoged that relationship and I don't know why; he was playing better golf when he was with her.

Actually, Earl really likes Venus and Serena and said despile their father, they have been very sucessful in tennis and get this; he also said that he needs to let them live their lives and stop interfering in their careers.:rolleyes:

Helen Lawson
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Did that nanny score big time or what?

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:31 PM
Did that nanny score big time or what?

Jackpot of love & money! :lol:

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:33 PM
And you know this how?

It's one thing to be black and quite another to be bi-racial
and constantly being ridiculed because people can't handle
the fact that you aren't one thing and don't allow yourself
to be labeled as such!

Have you ever had to deal with not being enough this or
that as a kid and hearing about it in some way, shape,
or form almost every day?

If you have, then please get back to me!



Didn't he say he wanted to be considered Cablinasian? WTF is that? I would have had more respect for him if he said, look, I am not just black, but I am part Asian and part white too. Notice that Derek Jeter, who is also bi-racial, doesn't get caught up in this because he said from the start who he was and if people didn't like it, that was their problem, but he isn't ashamed of who he is.

Actually, I have had to deal with being black and doing great in school and being ridiculed for doing so by blacks AND whites.

tennnisfannn
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:39 PM
That caublasian remark was a joke and tiger intended it so. After it was blown all out of proportion, he vowed never to joke wiht the media again. Has absolutely nothing with how he feels about his self image.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Didn't he say he wanted to be considered Cablinasian? WTF is that? I would have had more respect for him if he said, look, I am not just black, but I am part Asian and part white too. Notice that Derek Jeter, who is also bi-racial, doesn't get caught up in this because he said from the start who he was and if people didn't like it, that was their problem, but he isn't ashamed of who he is.

Actually, I have had to deal with being black and doing great in school and being ridiculed for doing so by blacks AND whites.

And again, people really don't listen and just
latch on to one thing!

In his Oprah interview he said, "when he was young he called himself
Cablasian because he was part of all three." As a child, try to imagine not being part of any one particular group and people always asking and wondering just exactly what you are and having to explain again and again.

Derek Jeter doesn't get caught up in it because he is ultra sensitive and very distinct about how he wants the public to percieve him and doesn't allow for anything to be said or get out that could possibly be misconstrued when it comes to things of that nature.

Tiger simply told Oprah the truth about himself
and people only heard one thing and ran with it.

And with your own situation I would think you try
more to understand what his situation may have been like.

You are put into a box by society because society must have order
but, for those in this situation some don't want to allow that to happen and not chose one over the other and somehow being percieved as turning your back on one side when that isn't your intention.

I personally won't and don't allow myself to be defined
by arcaic sterotypes and preconcieved notions that only
serve to what makes others more comfortable and secure.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:46 PM
That caublasian remark was a joke and tiger intended it so. After it was blown all out of proportion, he vowed never to joke wiht the media again. Has absolutely nothing with how he feels about his self image.

Thank You!

Dave B
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:51 PM
And again, people really don't listen and just
latch on to one thing!

In his Oprah interview he said, "when he was young he called himself
Cablasian because he was part of all three." As a child, try to imagine not being part of any one particular group and people always asking and wondering just exactly what you are and having to explain again and again.

Derek Jeter doesn't get caught up in it because he is ultra sensitive and very distinct about how he wants the public to percieve him and doesn't allow for anything to be said or get out that could possibly be misconstrued when it comes to things of that nature.

Tiger simply told Oprah the truth about himself
and people only heard one thing and ran with it.

And with your own situation I would think you try
more to understand what his situation may have been like.

You are put into a box by society because society must have order
but, for those in this situation some don't want to allow that to happen and not chose one over the other and somehow being percieved as turning your back on one side when that isn't your intention.

I personally won't and don't allow myself to be defined
by arcaic sterotypes and preconcieved notions that only
serve to what makes others more comfortable and secure.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Pureracket
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:52 PM
Kabuke,
Are you of Asian descent(sp?)

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:53 PM
And again, people really don't listen and just
latch on to one thing!

In his Oprah interview he said, "when he was young he called himself
Cablasian because he was part of all three." As a child, try to imagine not being part of any one particular group and people always asking and wondering just exactly what you are and having to explain again and again.

Derek Jeter doesn't get caught up in it because he is ultra sensitive and very distinct about how he wants the public to percieve him and doesn't allow for anything to be said or get out that could possibly be misconstrued when it comes to things of that nature.

Tiger simply told Oprah the truth about himself
and people only heard one thing and ran with it.

And with your own situation I would think you try
more to understand what his situation may have been like.

You are put into a box by society because society must have order
but, for those in this situation some don't want to allow that to happen and not chose one over the other and somehow being percieved as turning your back on one side when that isn't your intention.

I personally won't and don't allow myself to be defined
by arcaic sterotypes and preconcieved notions that only
serve to what makes others more comfortable and secure.


If that is the case, then I blame his parents because they should have explained to him when he was younger who he is and that some people were going to have a problem with it, but that was their problem. That's what my parents told me.

I guess I'd be more sympathetic to his situation if he was proud of being part black, but I don't think he is.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:55 PM
Kabuke,
Are you of Asian descent(sp?)

Yes.
1/2 Chinese 1/2 Black

Pureracket
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:58 PM
It seems that I remember your saying that at a time. My best friend is 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 Black. What lizchris may be saying is that anybody else who shares the heritage other than the Black one may seem to advance that one instead of the Black one. I know that I've had discussions like this with my best friend.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:59 PM
If that is the case, then I blame his parents because they should have explained to him when he was younger who he is and that some people were going to have a problem with it, but that was their problem. That's what my parents told me.

I guess I'd be more sympathetic to his situation if he was proud of being part black, but I don't think he is.

I'm sure his parents did sit and talk to him.

Don't you think his parents told him the same.
People are gonna have issues with it but, that's
their problem and so long as you know who you are
to heck with what they think.

He's all three and just because he doesn't somehow
express or define his "blackness" in the manner you'd
like doesn't mean he isn't proud.

Everyone has their opinions and he doesn't have the time
to sit down and try to prove something to someone who obviously
isn't having it.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:01 PM
It seems that I remember your saying that at a time. My best friend is 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 Black. What lizchris may be saying is that anybody else who shares the heritage other than the Black one may seem to advance that one instead of the Black one. I know that I've had discussions like this with my best friend.

Ofcourse.

It is an issue because of the social
and ethnic notions of what is, isn't,
and should and shouldn't be.

I'm not understanding how it can be helped.
You are what you are and it's other's perception
as to what may or may not be an aide to one's advancement
in a specific field.

Pureracket
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:02 PM
Ofcourse.

It is an issue because of the social
and ethnic notions of what is, isn't,
and should and shouldn't be.oooook:confused: ...lol

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:04 PM
oooook:confused: ...lol

Perception? :lol:

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:05 PM
It seems that I remember your saying that at a time. My best friend is 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 Black. What lizchris may be saying is that anybody else who shares the heritage other than the Black one may seem to advance that one instead of the Black one. I know that I've had discussions like this with my best friend.

That's exactly what I am saying.

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:07 PM
Why would you expect anything less form a man who looks black, is part black, is ashamed to be considered black and is suessful? Believe me, someone in his position wouldn't have married a black nanny.

Thats so ignorant :rolleyes:
Just bc he married a white girl doesnt mean he isnt proud of his race! I date white guys all the time but i'm still proud of my race! You are so full of shit!

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:08 PM
That's exactly what I am saying.

Operative word being "seem".

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:10 PM
It seems that I remember your saying that at a time. My best friend is 1/2 Chinese and 1/2 Black. What lizchris may be saying is that anybody else who shares the heritage other than the Black one may seem to advance that one instead of the Black one. I know that I've had discussions like this with my best friend.

I dont think thats the case with Tiger. The other part of his race is Asian, but he never acts Asian or does anything to identify himself with that. In fact people think of him as black more than anything. I dont know any examples of people of mixed race doing that, in fact most of the time they are equally prous of both races.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:22 PM
I dont think thats the case with Tiger. The other part of his race is Asian, but he never acts Asian or does anything to identify himself with that. In fact people think of him as black more than anything. I dont know any examples of people of mixed race doing that, in fact most of the time they are equally prous of both races.

And their enlies the integral problem which is
the need to have labels and cubby holes to
place each person in their perspective place.


What makes one black/white/asian?

Is it in physical features, behavior,
language, cultural values, ect...?

Is it simply one thing?
Is it a mixture of things?

We have such a need to make sure we know what
everyone is, more so than finding out who they are
as people.

Society has taught us to define people by certain traits and characteristics
but, not to see and understand that we're more alike than different, simply just different ways of seeing the same thing IMO.

Forinstance, I've always heard black friends and acquantances talking of
other black people as acting white because of how they talked(proper english).

This puzzled me because how does speaking a certain way define who someone is? Yes, english isn't the original language of their ancestor's but it is the languaged most were brought up in and language because it originated from caucasian people doesn't mean that it is somehow owned by them and speaking it somehow makes you less black.

It's all just so complex and the best anyone can do
is try to have a little understanding and try to see
things from a variety of angles.

JMO.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:53 PM
Tiger is full of it and he will be just like all the others who turn their back on the race till the shit hit the fan ala OJ and Ms. (Michael) Jackson (if you nasty :lol: ) ...Liz is right, he dont give a shit about the black side of his background...He would never marry a black nanny...:rolleyes:

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 02:55 PM
No offense to anyone but It seem that when it comes to blacks marrying outside of the race we tend to get the "bad end of the deal" (for lack of a better word)...:mad:

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:18 PM
Thats so ignorant :rolleyes:
Just bc he married a white girl doesnt mean he isnt proud of his race! I date white guys all the time but i'm still proud of my race! You are so full of shit!
If I am so full of shit , then why on April 15, 1997, when he was asked by the then-President of the US Bill Clinton to accompany him to NY to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball (remember, if you do, he has just won the Masters), he told Bill Clinton and Rachel Robinson (Jackie's widow) that he had "other things to do" and couldn't attend and then then took a swipe at both by saying why could they not have invited him before then. The press, former black ballplayers who played with Robinson and many in the black community took him to task for doing what he did, espcially to Jackie's family. He was so embarrased that he had to apologize to Rachel Robinson and her family (a year later, no less). So before you tell me I an full of shit, know who the fuck you are stepping to and then step the hell off and get the fuck on.:fiery:

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Tiger is full of it and he will be just like all the others who turn their back on the race till the shit hit the fan ala OJ and Ms. (Michael) Jackson (if you nasty :lol: ) ...Liz is right, he dont give a shit about the black side of his background...He would never marry a black nanny...:rolleyes:

Thank you!:kiss:

BTW, the shit did hit the fan in a sense when that white golfer told him to bring fried chiken and collard greens to the next Maters diner when he won the first time. I think he knew then that in that guy's eyes he was nothing more than a n*****.

rjd1111
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Did that nanny score big time or what?



Tiger didn't do to badly either. She has an identical twin

Sally Struthers
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:41 PM
I'm a bit sad I wasn't invited to the wedding. Maybe my invitation got lost in the mail. Oh well their loss. Plus I was tied up with Balderdash filming.

Tiger can do what he wants. He grew up in a predominatly white suburb and plays a sport that is mostly made up of white male college graduates. It's only natural that his likes and dislikes were shaped by his surroundings and the people he knows.

If I am so full of shit , then why on April 15, 1997, when he was asked by the then-President of the US Bill Clinton to accompany him to NY to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball (remember, if you do, he has just won the Masters), he told Bill Clinton and Rachel Robinson (Jackie's widow) that he had "other things to do" and couldn't attend and then then took a swipe at both by saying why could they not have invited him before then. The press, former black ballplayers who played with Robinson and many in the black community took him to task for doing what he did, espcially to Jackie's family. He was so embarrased that he had to apologize to Rachel Robinson and her family (a year later, no less). So before you tell me I an full of shit, know who the fuck you are stepping to and then step the hell off and get the fuck on.

This has less to do with Tiger rejecting his black heritage than him not caring one way or another about what Jackie Robinson did. The media just thinks he should be more involved with social issues. Tiger's socially apathetic. I don't care either. It's his time. He can do what he wants. If he doesn't want to go to some ceremony fine by me. He's stubborn and doesn't like to be told what to do so if you're looking for him to act out of social obligation to his race you're barking up the wrong tree.

Sally on the other hand is very magnanimous and donates her time and money to tons of charitable causes even if it does not benefit her finacially. :o

samn
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:49 PM
I dont think thats the case with Tiger. The other part of his race is Asian, but he never acts Asian


And how, pray tell, does one "act Asian"? (Especially since Asia stretches from Turkey in the west all the way to Japan in the East, and covers an entire spectrum of ethnicities and cultures.)

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:57 PM
If I am so full of shit , then why on April 15, 1997, when he was asked by the then-President of the US Bill Clinton to accompany him to NY to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball (remember, if you do, he has just won the Masters), he told Bill Clinton and Rachel Robinson (Jackie's widow) that he had "other things to do" and couldn't attend and then then took a swipe at both by saying why could they not have invited him before then. The press, former black ballplayers who played with Robinson and many in the black community took him to task for doing what he did, espcially to Jackie's family. He was so embarrased that he had to apologize to Rachel Robinson and her family (a year later, no less). So before you tell me I an full of shit, know who the fuck you are stepping to and then step the hell off and get the fuck on.:fiery:

So what if he doesnt attend one event? Hes not obliged to attend every black event in America just because he happens to be part black. You have no argument, and might i add you dont sound very controlled or rational either.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:57 PM
No offense to anyone but It seem that when it comes to blacks marrying outside of the race we tend to get the "bad end of the deal" (for lack of a better word)...:mad:

Speaking from experience Cam?

Tell me 'bout it.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:58 PM
I'm a bit sad I wasn't invited to the wedding. Maybe my invitation got lost in the mail. Oh well their loss. Plus I was tied up with Balderdash filming.

Tiger can do what he wants. He grew up in a predominatly white suburb and plays a sport that is mostly made up of white male college graduates. It's only natural that his likes and dislikes were shaped by his surroundings and the people he knows.



This has less to do with Tiger rejecting his black heritage than him not caring one way or another about what Jackie Robinson did. The media just thinks he should be more involved with social issues. Tiger's socially apathetic. I don't care either. It's his time. He can do what he wants. If he doesn't want to go to some ceremony fine by me. He's stubborn and doesn't like to be told what to do so if you're looking for him to act out of social obligation to his race you're barking up the wrong tree.

Sally on the other hand is very magnanimous and donates her time and money to tons of charitable causes even if it does not benefit her finacially. :o

That has nothing to do with it. Bill Clinton was the President; he had a lot mor things to do than Tiger did and he showed up. Him doing so would have been the right thing to do, considering this was going to happen once. He didn't even have to stay for the game.

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 03:59 PM
And how, pray tell, does one "act Asian"? (Especially since Asia stretches from Turkey in the west all the way to Japan in the East, and covers an entire spectrum of ethnicities and cultures.)

I was just responding to the point where someone said he wa advancing his 'Asianess' more than his 'blackness'. I'm just saying he isnt advancing any Asianness because he doesnt go out of his way to act stereotypically asian.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:01 PM
So what if he doesnt attend one event? Hes not obliged to attend every black event in America just because he happens to be part black. You have no argument, and might i add you dont sound very controlled or rational either.
Apparently you don't know how to read because I didn't say he was.

As fas as being rational and controlled, if I was dealing with someone who was I could be. You can't be rational with someone who isn't. And yes, I am talking aobut you.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:01 PM
Speaking from experience Cam?

Tell me 'bout it.
Nope...just observations...:o

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:03 PM
And their enlies the integral problem which is
the need to have labels and cubby holes to
place each person in their perspective place.


What makes one black/white/asian?

Is it in physical features, behavior,
language, cultural values, ect...?

Is it simply one thing?
Is it a mixture of things?

We have such a need to make sure we know what
everyone is, more so than finding out who they are
as people.

Society has taught us to define people by certain traits and characteristics
but, not to see and understand that we're more alike than different, simply just different ways of seeing the same thing IMO.

Forinstance, I've always heard black friends and acquantances talking of
other black people as acting white because of how they talked(proper english).

This puzzled me because how does speaking a certain way define who someone is? Yes, english isn't the original language of their ancestor's but it is the languaged most were brought up in and language because it originated from caucasian people doesn't mean that it is somehow owned by them and speaking it somehow makes you less black.

It's all just so complex and the best anyone can do
is try to have a little understanding and try to see
things from a variety of angles.

JMO.

I agree with you and thats why I dont like anyone criticising Tiger or anyone else for not being black enough. That seems to go on a lot.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:04 PM
If I am so full of shit , then why on April 15, 1997, when he was asked by the then-President of the US Bill Clinton to accompany him to NY to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball (remember, if you do, he has just won the Masters), he told Bill Clinton and Rachel Robinson (Jackie's widow) that he had "other things to do" and couldn't attend and then then took a swipe at both by saying why could they not have invited him before then. The press, former black ballplayers who played with Robinson and many in the black community took him to task for doing what he did, espcially to Jackie's family. He was so embarrased that he had to apologize to Rachel Robinson and her family (a year later, no less). So before you tell me I an full of shit, know who the fuck you are stepping to and then step the hell off and get the fuck on.:fiery:

Surprise, surprise,
another instance where people
don't listen to the whole story.

If you'll recall Tiger had made prior
committments before hand and felt
an obligation not to break it.

Was it a mistake to keep his prior committment,
only Tiger can answer that but, who are you to be
critical of decisions he makes. he obviously did what he
felt was right at that moment and later apologized.

Yet, you precieve to know what he feels
and judge him if not entirely, partially on that
on incedent.

It easy to make snap judgements about people you don't know
and situations you obviously didn't take the time to find out, especially already coming in judging them with your preconcieved notions of him and what he does and doesn not feel based on your notion of what "blackness" is.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Nope...just observations...:o

Oh. :cool:

Sally Struthers
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:06 PM
That has nothing to do with it. Bill Clinton was the President; he had a lot mor things to do than Tiger did and he showed up. Him doing so would have been the right thing to do, considering this was going to happen once. He didn't even have to stay for the game.

Why does Tiger have to show up if he does not want to? Because you expect him to because it was the right thing to do? Well I got news for you. When you're Tiger Woods and have Tiger Woods money you can do whatever the heck you like without caring about what other people think of you.

Like I said before, Tiger does not care because he's like a lot of other young people of his generation. He could give two shits about something that he wasn't there for and someone he never met.

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:06 PM
Apparently you don't know how to read because I didn't say he was.

As fas as being rational and controlled, if I was dealing with someone who was I could be. You can't be rational with someone who isn't. And yes, I am talking aobut you.

You claimed that Tiger was ashamed to be black. When I disagreed you attempted to prove your point by bringing up the fact that he didnt attend that event. So therefore you were trying to say that just bc he is black he should be attending those events.

mjones
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:07 PM
What you hear from tiger these days is really his handlers speaking. From the beginning tiger has been running from the part of himself that is black. Even during his early days in the spotlight you could hear the disdain in his voice for all things black. I remember him playing in Thailand, telling the crowds of how proud he was to be Thai and coming back to the States where someone called him black and him going ballistic. There is a lot of self hate in tiger.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:11 PM
You claimed that Tiger was ashamed to be black. When I disagreed you attempted to prove your point by bringing up the fact that he didnt attend that event. So therefore you were trying to say that just bc he is black he should be attending those events.
Its not about this one event...If he had shown even one iota of interest in the black community then it would not matter...It's a pattern for him...:rolleyes: Also, tell that to the blacks who paved the way so that he can have the things that he does...Or was it just the white and asian sides of him that had dogs chewing on them and water hoses knocking them over? :scratch:

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:13 PM
You claimed that Tiger was ashamed to be black. When I disagreed you attempted to prove your point by bringing up the fact that he didnt attend that event. So therefore you were trying to say that just bc he is black he should be attending those events.

What I was trying to say is that it would have been nice for him to show up. Even it is was just for a photo op, I don't think many people would have been offended. But he chose to be arrogant about, regardless of the prior plans he had, by acting insulted when Bill Clinton and Rachel Robinson didn't invite him earlier. It also showed how stupid he was because this was an event thrown by MLB, not the President or Mrs. Robinson and Clinton went out of is way to invite him on his own.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Its not about this one event...If he had shown even one iota of interest in the black community then it would not matter...It's a pattern for him...:rolleyes: Also, tell that to the blacks who paved the way so that he can have the things that he does...Or was it just the white and asian sides of him that had dogs chewing on them and water hoses knocking them over? :scratch:

Great point!

Too bad it is a point lost on some people.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:15 PM
What you hear from tiger these days is really his handlers speaking. From the beginning tiger has been running from the part of himself that is black. Even during his early days in the spotlight you could hear the disdain in his voice for all things black. I remember him playing in Thailand, telling the crowds of how proud he was to be Thai and coming back to the States where someone called him black and him going ballistic. There is a lot of self hate in tiger.

Can you elaborate on the context of both situations
and not just snipets surrounding whatever it was thats
was said, and not simply having the audasity to tell someone
they hate themselves based on those snipets.

This is another thing,
why is it so important for people to continually
trying to tear others down because they don't live up
to their notions of how one should act and or express.

Far be it from Tiger or anyone else for that matter
to consult a "panel of judges" before proceeding
to speak as to notify the public of what he feels internally
and constantly feel the need to justify to people who aren't
open and have already formed their opinions.

I can't speak for Tiger personally for the fact that I don't know him
however, I will not and would never venture to assume some hates themselves or what not based on what I see in a medium that often
distorts the truth and facts to fit their own agenda.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Its not about this one event...If he had shown even one iota of interest in the black community then it would not matter...It's a pattern for him...:rolleyes: Also, tell that to the blacks who paved the way so that he can have the things that he does...Or was it just the white and asian sides of him that had dogs chewing on them and water hoses knocking them over? :scratch:

What qualifies as "interest"
in the black community?

That would provide a better viewpoint.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:18 PM
Surprise, surprise,
another instance where people
don't listen to the whole story.

If you'll recall Tiger had made prior
committments before hand and felt
an obligation not to break it.

Was it a mistake to keep his prior committment,
only Tiger can answer that but, who are you to be
critical of decisions he makes. he obviously did what he
felt was right at that moment and later apologized.

Yet, you precieve to know what he feels
and judge him if not entirely, partially on that
on incedent.

It easy to make snap judgements about people you don't know
and situations you obviously didn't take the time to find out, especially already coming in judging them with your preconcieved notions of him and what he does and doesn not feel based on your notion of what "blackness" is.

I was aware of the "prior commitment" and that commitment could have been changed because that "prior commitment" was some sort of a vacation. That's why I didn't bring it up.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:19 PM
Too bad it is a point lost on some people.

Interesting in that the point of seeing it from the other
side has seemed to be utterly foreign and lost on you.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:20 PM
I was aware of the "prior commitment" and that commitment could have been changed because that "prior commitment" was some sort of a vacation. That's why I didn't bring it up.

And you know it was a vacation for a fact?

You also know the circumstances surrounding it and
what was happening in his life prior to that obligation
be committed to and then having the other offer coming
up afterwards?

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:23 PM
Why does Tiger have to show up if he does not want to? Because you expect him to because it was the right thing to do? Well I got news for you. When you're Tiger Woods and have Tiger Woods money you can do whatever the heck you like without caring about what other people think of you.

Like I said before, Tiger does not care because he's like a lot of other young people of his generation. He could give two shits about something that he wasn't there for and someone he never met.

That's the problem with his generation; they are stupid when it comes to history.

I was four when Jackie Robinson died and I never met him, but I still can empthaize with what he went through. Elston Howard, the first black man to play for the Yankees, was a neighbor of mine and I was 12 when he died, but I still knew who he was and what he went through. Maybe I am just smarter than Tiger or have parents who are smarter and make me aware of the history of blacks in Amierca.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:25 PM
And you know it was a vacation for a fact?

You also know the circumstances surrounding it and
what was happening in his life prior to that obligation
be committed to and then having the other offer coming
up afterwards?

A sports writer found out he was taking a vacation and lambasted him for using it as a excuse for not going to the event.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:28 PM
Interesting in that the point of seeing it from the other
side has seemed to be utterly foreign and lost on you.

I am very well aware of what he went through growing up because I went to school with a few racially mixed children and know what struggles some of them went through, but apparently the difference between them and Tiger is that they seemd to like themselves and didn't have a problwm with being part anything.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:29 PM
A sports writer found out he was taking a vacation and lambasted him for using it as a excuse for not going to the event.

Can you provide the article?
Also, where did this person get their info.
& who and how reliable are they?

OUT!
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:31 PM
Maybe the US is not as open a society as they would make us believe. All this fuss b/c a biracial man is marrying a white woman. Wow.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:31 PM
I am very well aware of what he went through growing up because I went to school with a few racially mixed children and know what struggles some of them went through, but apparently the difference between them and Tiger is that they seemd to like themselves and didn't have a problwm with being part anything.

Could it be because he doesn't want to get
caught up in all these issues that people have who
want to use him to further the agenda?

Also, you don't know Tiger or his life on the
same level you've known these other children.

Also, their you go again with your assumtions based on
what you like and dislike in what it means to be who they are.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:32 PM
Can you provide the article?
Also, where did this person get their info.
& who and how reliable are they?
I'll try to find it

The person wrote for a golf magazine, so I think he is pretty reliable.





Mystery Ryder

To improve on an otherwise meager Cup record, Tiger Woods must warm to the event itself, a task he's beginning to embrace

http://content-golf.live.advance.net/images/spacer.gifhttp://content-golf.live.advance.net/images/gw20040910/woods1.jpg In Woods' three previous Ryder Cups, moments of celebration have been rare.
Photo: Stephen Szurlej

http://content-golf.live.advance.net/images/spacer.gifJohn Hawkins
Golf World

At some point during the third round of last month's WGC-NEC Invitational, Jim Furyk turned to his playing partner that afternoon and suggested U.S. Ryder Cup captain Hal Sutton would do well to pair them together in a four-ball match at Oakland Hills. Before his sassy headcover could utter a word, Tiger Woods quipped, "You might not say that if you knew my record," to which Furyk replied, "I don't care what your record is. I'd still like to partner up."


It's worth noting that Furyk was specific about a four-ball alliance - only a sadist would want to hunt down Woods' errant drives of late, much less play them, in the alternate-shot format. But even when he was presiding high and mighty over golf's universe, hitting fairways and holing every putt he had to make, Woods never approached that same level of dominance in the Ryder Cup.

His 5-8-2 mark is the only real blemish in a career full of astonishing statistics. A member of the last three U.S. teams, Woods has lost five consecutive matches on the first day of competition. Not until 2002 did he win back-to-back matches of any kind; those victories occurred with Davis Love III. Prior to the Love connection, Woods played 10 rounds of four-ball and foursomes with seven different partners. He won just twice.

This is hardly what anyone expected from a kid who entered golf's conscience as a match-play magician, a guy who captured three straight U.S. Amateurs with a greater flair for the dramatic than Bette Davis on a bad hair day. "He gets everybody's best shot," says Mark O'Meara, the first of those eight Yanks to team with Woods. "I can remember playing some of my best rounds with Jack Nicklaus when I was younger. He's also had some matches where he shot seven or eight under on his own ball and didn't win. I can't recall a single match where he played poorly."

That hasn't stopped skeptics from questioning Woods' commitment to the Ryder Cup, a relationship that has endured several rough periods and gotten little help from the myopic musings of America's mainstream media. There was ill will before Woods ever struck a shot in the competition - the PGA of America wouldn't allow Tiger's father, Earl, to fly on the team charter to Spain in 1997. Despite Woods being the only player on that U.S. squad without a significant other in attendance, his attempts to justify his dad's inclusion were summarily denied. In a metaphorical sense, this amounted to a triple bogey on the opening hole.


http://content-golf.live.advance.net/images/gw20040910/woods2.jpg
Paired with eight players overall, including Azinger in '02, Woods has won just three.
Photo: Stephen Szurlej On this and all other matters involving the biennial matches against Europe, Woods declined an interview request with Golf World, saying, "I don't want to talk about the Ryder Cup." He said it neither maliciously nor mischievously, as if he long ago realized speaking candidly on such a volatile topic does nobody any good. Tiger's silence forces us to examine the game's most visible player and golf's most intense week through the eyes of others. What emerges is a portrait of bright and dark colors, an incomplete canvas that leaves perspective in the eye of the beholder.

"All I can tell you is, the negative press he's gotten from the Ryder Cup is very unfounded," says Curtis Strange, the 2002 U.S. captain. "Nobody is a better team player, he's not a rah-rah guy. He was the very first one to sign the memorabilia every morning at 6 a.m. We're talking about something like 200 items - he'd get it out of the way and get on with business, and I can tell you, there were a couple of players, who shall remain nameless, I had to pester right up to the end of the day."

As was the case in his first three Ryder Cups, Woods will be the youngest player on the U.S. team at Oakland Hills. This has created an unusual dichotomy - the world's most talented and accomplished golfer dropped into an atmosphere where seniority rules, where protocol dictates older players communicate directly with the captain and assume overt leadership responsibilities. By all accounts, Woods has done an excellent job of maintaining a low profile while still dealing with the burden of being himself.

"He's good at taking a role when it's his turn to take it," Love says. "And he's very good at not overstepping his boundaries."

Although Woods obviously knows his teammates better now than in his '97 debut, he didn't exactly hand out boxes of chocolate when he arrived at Valderrama. Some couldn't help but consider him standoffish, but as Love points out, "He was basically a rookie on a national team." Adds Furyk: "Tiger's first Ryder Cup was my first Ryder Cup. He was 21 years old and [O'Meara] was his only close friend. He didn't know [captain] Tom Kite very well. He hadn't been around very long."

"There were guys who could have been a little more motivated over there, but I can't say enough about how Tiger prepared himself."— Curtis Strange
2002 U.S. CaptainHaving turned pro 13 months earlier amidst a Beatlemania-like buzz, Woods won the Masters by 12 strokes the following April. At that point, hope had become larger than hype, but Tiger was leery and defensive by the end of his first full season. He already had alienated some of his PGA Tour brethren that May with comments about winning in Dallas with his "C" game, then caused additional friction by refusing to sign other players' charity donations.

Throw in the dirty-joke fallout from a GQ profile, and the snub of an invitation to attend Jackie Robinson Night at Shea Stadium, and the early diagnosis was that Woods swallowed too much fame. "He had a reputation for separating himself from the tour, sort of the way [Greg] Norman did," Furyk adds. "It can be unfair. He's like myself in that he's a bit of a loner."

It's also hard to imagine a more adverse setting in which to begin your Ryder Cup experience than at Valderrama. Each morning featured a torrential downpour, delaying matches that would take almost six hours to play. Although his players, to a man, still defend Kite's performance as captain, Valderrama is where questions regarding the U.S. team's effort and preparation started to surface.

Only a handful of team members accompanied Kite on a scouting trip to Valderrama earlier that summer, Woods among them. But when the team arrived in Spain that September, they discovered a quirky, position-friendly layout on which local knowledge could not be obtained in a couple of practice rounds. The U.S. trailed by five points after two days, an insurmountable margin despite a noble Sunday charge.

You wouldn't have known it two years later in Boston. Woods was beaten twice Friday before splitting his Saturday matches alongside Steve Pate. Having lost with Tom Lehman and David Duval, two players of much higher profile, Tiger's partnership with Pate came about after some typically abstract thinking by skipper Ben Crenshaw. "To pair Tiger with anybody drove me nuts," Crenshaw recalled in May 2001. "It was funny when someone mentioned Steve Pate. I can't remember whether Steve came to me or somebody else, but Tiger knew his brother [John Pate, a high-level California amateur]. They had played some golf together, and it worked.

"From Saturday afternoon on," Crenshaw has said more than once, "everything just kind of fell into place."

If there was a point when Woods finally came to terms with the Ryder Cup, it would be that same evening. Facing a four-point deficit and in serious danger of losing to Europe for a third consecutive time, the U.S. squad gathered for two hours of intense reflection and unprecedented soul searching. Many in the team room that night recall seeing a Tiger they never had seen before: communicatively accessible, unusually spiritual, perhaps even a bit vulnerable.


http://content-golf.live.advance.net/images/gw20040910/woods3.jpg
[b]During the U.S. victory in 1999, Woods let down his guard more with teammates.
Photo: Stephen Szurlej Woods spent those two hours sitting atop a piano with a can of "whoop-ass" - a novelty item Ben and Julie Crenshaw had bought for him that summer. "The whole thing started in Spain," Julie would later say. "They were going around the room Saturday night [at Valderrama] and Tiger said, 'See that can over there? That's a can of Whoop Ass. Let's go out and whoop some ass tomorrow!' He said it as a joke - I think Amy Mickelson [Phil's wife] told us about it. So we were in Telluride [Colorado] on vacation, and in a storefront window was this can of Whoop Ass. I said to Ben, 'We've got to get this for Tiger!' I wrapped it in the worst brown paper you can imagine, and he probably wondered what on earth we were giving him.

"Tiger opened it and had everybody sign it. He said it was the best present anybody had ever gotten him."

Things had not been so wonderful six weeks earlier, when Crenshaw implicated four of his players as being greedy and financially consumed at a news conference prior to the PGA Championship. Although Crenshaw didn't name names, you didn't need access to the team diary to know Woods and O'Meara were among those campaigning for reallocation of millions of dollars in Ryder Cup revenue. Crenshaw's public acknowledgement of the disagreement drove a stake through the team's delicate psyche, leading to one of the most fractious internal squabbles in the event's history.

If the Yanks hadn't won 8½ of 12 points in the Sunday singles to complete their miracle comeback, who knows how the teary-eyed events of Saturday evening might have played out? "To me, Tiger always seems guarded," Sutton would later admit. "He wasn't guarded on that piano. It was like, 'OK, I'm going to let you all know me for a minute.' People saw some things in him that they'd never seen before."

That isn't to say the Woods of 2004 is an unlocked door. Strange gave Tiger immense freedom in 2002, setting very few rules and allowing the eight-time major champion to prepare for the matches as if he were tuning up for a British Open. Thus, Woods began his practice rounds at The Belfry before 7 a.m., annoying the British press, which only needs a few grains of sand to turn a molehill into a mountain. "He had full permission from me to go early, as long as he played with someone," Strange says. "And he did with [Mark] Calcavecchia."

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:32 PM
Maybe the US is not as open a society as they would make us believe. All this fuss b/c a biracial man is marrying a white woman. Wow.

Absolutely!

People here mostly just don't like to talk about
it as though that'll somehow make it go away.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:34 PM
That's the problem with his generation; they are stupid when it comes to history.

I was four when Jackie Robinson died and I never met him, but I still can empthaize with what he went through. Elston Howard, the first black man to play for the Yankees, was a neighbor of mine and I was 12 when he died, but I still knew who he was and what he went through. Maybe I am just smarter than Tiger or have parents who are smarter and make me aware of the history of blacks in Amierca.

Lambasting a whole generation because wehave a different
way of looking at things and trying not to carry over all the
prejudicesw and what not of the past while trying not to forget it,
all the while having people tell us we don't care.. :confused:

Mrs. Peel
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:41 PM
Hmmmm now we all know why Serena withdrew from Filderstadt:) I hope she fully recovered from her knee injury when she was dancing :lol:

:lol: Priorities, priorities....I think they made the right decision :o Ride that A-list status to the hilt...With their stardom and popularity, they shouldn't pass up an invitation like this...even though Tiger is :zzz: What was to be really gained at Filderstadt? Big money nor a #1 ranking is on the line..so...

lol@ marrying the nanny..someone was trying to call her a model...ahm...when & where? AS if Tiger would LET her have a career :lol: They should have said 'Tiger marries Tree Ornament' :rolleyes:

Best wishes and blessings to the happy couple :p

ptkten
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:42 PM
Great points Kabuke and Experimentee :)

Tiger should be allowed to marry whoever he wants. He obviously has no problem with his race if he invited people such as Michael Jordan, Oprah Winfrey, and the Williams sisters to his wedding.

Also, a lot of this discussion is really bothering me. As a white male, I have no problem with interracial marriages, but if I did, I would be considered racist. Now why is it ok for African-Americans to say that other African-Americans shouldn't marry whites :confused:

Mrs. Peel
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:43 PM
Maybe the US is not as open a society as they would make us believe. All this fuss b/c a biracial man is marrying a white woman. Wow.
BING! BING BING!!!!! We have a winner! Give this man a prize! :kiss: :kiss: ;)

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 04:49 PM
Lambasting a whole generation because wehave a different
way of looking at things and trying not to carry over all the
prejudicesw and what not of the past while trying not to forget it,
all the while having people tell us we don't care.. :confused:

Don't give me that bullshit; my genreation had a differnt way of looking at thins as we were the frst gerneation to go to desegregated schools, but something happened to most of us; we grew up and saw what the real world was like.

Experimentee
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:10 PM
Also, a lot of this discussion is really bothering me. As a white male, I have no problem with interracial marriages, but if I did, I would be considered racist. Now why is it ok for African-Americans to say that other African-Americans shouldn't marry whites :confused:

No ones saying its ok, except the people who are saying those things in the first place.

harloo
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:12 PM
I was invited, too, but when I saw Britney Spears on the guest list, I just sent a gift instead.
Oh Helen, you always have to be the center of attention. Don't hate on Brit!!:lol: :p

DA FOREHAND
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:14 PM
The heck with the wedding.. something just turns me off about Tiger and his swedish blond trophy.


Are Venus and Serena's white boys trophies?

calabar
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:17 PM
This is both sad AND funny. The title of this thread is "V&S at Tiger's Wedding". Of the 80 posts or so, barely a handful mention Venus or Serena. I don't mind race related threads but why not call the thread what it really is?

Just wondering.

jenny161185
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:26 PM
wonder if Britney went?

Martian Willow
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:34 PM
An awful lot of hatred over a man of mixed race marrying outside his, er, race.

Winston's Human
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:36 PM
If I am so full of shit , then why on April 15, 1997, when he was asked by the then-President of the US Bill Clinton to accompany him to NY to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in baseball (remember, if you do, he has just won the Masters), he told Bill Clinton and Rachel Robinson (Jackie's widow) that he had "other things to do" and couldn't attend and then then took a swipe at both by saying why could they not have invited him before then. The press, former black ballplayers who played with Robinson and many in the black community took him to task for doing what he did, espcially to Jackie's family. He was so embarrased that he had to apologize to Rachel Robinson and her family (a year later, no less). So before you tell me I an full of shit, know who the fuck you are stepping to and then step the hell off and get the fuck on.:fiery:

Maybe, Tiger did not want to be used as another Clinton Photo-Op.

G_Slammed
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:39 PM
The "Chosen One"?

In 1996, Tiger's father, Earl, told Sports Illustrated that his son would be bigger than Gandhi or Buddha and that he "...is the Chosen One. He'll have the power to impact nations."

Earlier that year Earl Woods told the crowd at an awards dinner honoring Tiger, "The world will be a better place to live in by virtue of his existence… I know that I was personally selected by God himself to nurture this young man and bring him to the point where he can make his contribution to humanity. This is my treasure. Please except it and use it wisely."

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:41 PM
Maybe, Tiger did not want to be used as another Clinton Photo-Op.

He didn't have to take pictures with Clinton; he could have taken photos with Rachel Robinson, her daughter Sharon Sims and her son Jason.

dreamgoddess099
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:46 PM
You guys have some funny conversations going on in here.:lol: But Tiger can't date outside his race because he's apart of damn near every one there is.

Bitter Blue Bong
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:47 PM
Kabuke, you have made some excellent points throughout this thread. It seems like some African-Americans (and those who are mixed) always have to prove their authenticity, which is ridiculous.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:47 PM
Don't give me that bullshit; my genreation had a differnt way of looking at thins as we were the frst gerneation to go to desegregated schools, but something happened to most of us; we grew up and saw what the real world was like.

Oh, so the way to get through to
the next generation is to critisize and
berate them because they are living and have
grown up in a different time from your's and their in
don't realize or appreciate as much of what they have today.

People of our generation are beginning to learn and
have a lot more to learn but being negative and shitty
to them and taking that type of attitude gets absolutely nothing
accomplished!

harloo
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Tiger is Coblasian and he is serious about his identity. It's a known fact that Tiger does not consider himself black and claims that would be denying a part of his Asian side. He is indeed the racially confused, and interracial relationships are known to produce this problem for alot children of mixed heritage.

It's nothing new, and we will just have to forgive him and take him back when he get's in trouble. :tape: :lol:

harloo
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:48 PM
The "Chosen One"?

In 1996, Tiger's father, Earl, told Sports Illustrated that his son would be bigger than Gandhi or Buddha and that he "...is the Chosen One. He'll have the power to impact nations."

Earlier that year Earl Woods told the crowd at an awards dinner honoring Tiger, "The world will be a better place to live in by virtue of his existence… I know that I was personally selected by God himself to nurture this young man and bring him to the point where he can make his contribution to humanity. This is my treasure. Please except it and use it wisely."
And he had the nerve to call Richard crazy.:rolleyes:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 05:50 PM
Kabuke, you have made some excellent points throughout this thread. It seems like some African-Americans (and those who are mixed) always have to prove their authenticity, which is ridiculous.

Thanks.

Yes, that's what I'm saying.
Their's already so much of a struggle and has been in this country
that it's sad when people of your race or similar see fit to berate others
and try and hold them to some sort of measure of "blackness".

What purpose does it serve?

Further more, it's hard to have any type of discussion,
real discussion when people attack which automatically turns
one on the defensive.

G-Ha
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Tiger is Coblasian and he is serious about his identity. It's a known fact that Tiger does not consider himself black and claims that would be denying a part of his Asian side. He is indeed the racially confused,...
Considering that Tiger is of mixed ethnicity and wishes to acknowledge that, how exactly is that being "racially confused"? I would think confusion sets in by NOT acknowledging all of one's heritage.

And for all the people who lambast Tiger for allegedly denying or at least not embracing his black heritage, are you equally appalled when Halle Berry repeatedly tells everyone that she is "black" even though she is half white (and clearly looks bi-racial), was raised by her white mother, and had/has absolutely no connection with her black father? Is that equally troubling? Didn't think so...

Infiniti2001
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:13 PM
Considering that Tiger is of mixed ethnicity and wishes to acknowledge that, how exactly is that being "racially confused"? I would think confusion sets in by NOT acknowledging all of one's heritage.

And for all the people who lambast Tiger for allegedly denying or at least not embracing his black heritage, are you equally appalled when Halle Berry repeatedly tells everyone that she is "black" even though she is half white (and clearly looks bi-racial), was raised by her white mother, and had/has absolutely no connection with her black father? Is that equally troubling? Didn't think so...

Well in Halle's defense her mom told her she was black from the time she was a little girl. She knew all the hell she would go through, so she prepared her child at an early stage. Can't fault her for that :p

G-Ha
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:19 PM
Well in Halle's defense her mom told her she was black from the time she was a little girl. She knew all the hell she would go through, so she prepared her child at an early stage. Can't fault her for that :p
Regardless of who said what to her at a particular age, where is the outrage that she's denying part of her heritage? At least Tiger acknowledges what he is...I've never heard him describe himself as just Asian. Halle mentions her mother being white in passing as if that fact has absolutely nothing to do with her and her heritage.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:19 PM
Considering that Tiger is of mixed ethnicity and wishes to acknowledge that, how exactly is that being "racially confused"? I would think confusion sets in by NOT acknowledging all of one's heritage.

And for all the people who lambast Tiger for allegedly denying or at least not embracing his black heritage, are you equally appalled when Halle Berry repeatedly tells everyone that she is "black" even though she is half white (and clearly looks bi-racial), was raised by her white mother, and had/has absolutely no connection with her black father? Is that equally troubling? Didn't think so...
To begin with, racism determined race since the first slave set foot in North America...If you had a drop of black blood in you then you are black...thats what they told us...:tape: I guess you're only half white when you are rich and famous...:tape:

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:20 PM
Regardless of who said what to her at a particular age, where is the outrage that she's denying part of her heritage? At least Tiger acknowledges what he is...I've never heard him describe himself as just Asian. Halle mentions her mother being white in passing as if that fact has absolutely nothing to do with her and her heritage.
But if Halle was a chick off the block...she would be encouraged to deny her "other half" :tape:

G-Ha
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:23 PM
I guess you're only half white when you are rich and famous...:tape:
Well, apparently not, as Halle is just "black". :p

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:26 PM
Well, apparently not, as Halle is just "black". :p
If Halle was hiding anything she would not parade her mother on TV as much as she does...She was on Intimate Portraite and at the Oscars with Halle...:p

Bitter Blue Bong
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:30 PM
He is indeed the racially confused

Racially confused because he doesn't acknowledge one part of his background over the other? Yikes.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:31 PM
Racially confused because he doesn't acknowledge one part of his background over the other? Yikes.
Dont you have some weed to smoke or something?

Rocketta
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:32 PM
since when does being black mean you are 100% African???

How does saying your black mean you are not part white, chinese, or anything else? :confused:

There are lots of different races that call themselves black so if Halle calls herself 'black' how exactly is that denying anything. Anyone with any scant knowledge of history knows that in the States...."black" encompases more than just African. :rolleyes:

G-Ha
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:35 PM
If Halle was hiding anything she would not parade her mother on TV as much as she does...She was on Intimate Portraite and at the Oscars with Halle...:p
I never said she was trying to hide anything. And yes, she parades her white mother around with her everywhere, which makes her comments of "just being black" even more comical. Why not just acknowledge exactly what you are?

My point is that Tiger is consistently attacked for basically acknowledging all aspects of his heritage, while Halle completely denies hers and there's absolutely no problem with that (and I don't care who she parades around town...if she basically says she's only black, that's denying her white mother/heritage).

Bitter Blue Bong
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Camron, try saying something intelligent.

G-Ha
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:45 PM
How does saying your black mean you are not part white, chinese, or anything else? :confused:
[I cut out the unnecessary :rolleyes: and that which just preceded it in your post and just left the portion which I believe was at least in part relevant towards my posts]

Halle has been asked to describe what she considers herself, ethnically, and her response has been black. Not bi-racial, not mixed, not part black/white...when you don't claim part of what you are, that's a denial. I'm not sure where your confusion lies.

And how does Tiger acknowlegding he's of mixed origin mean that he's ashamed to be "black"? :confused:

Tennis Fool
Oct 7th, 2004, 06:54 PM
:lol: They should have said 'Tiger marries Tree Ornament' :rolleyes:


Don't all golfers (except maybe Vijay Singh?) And don't go too past tennis players (Pete Sampras anybody?) Anyway, you know this is wife #1.

Rocketta
Oct 7th, 2004, 07:15 PM
[I cut out the unnecessary :rolleyes: and that which just preceded it in your post and just left the portion which I believe was at least in part relevant towards my posts]

Halle has been asked to describe what she considers herself, ethnically, and her response has been black. Not bi-racial, not mixed, not part black/white...when you don't claim part of what you are, that's a denial. I'm not sure where your confusion lies.

And how does Tiger acknowlegding he's of mixed origin mean that he's ashamed to be "black"? :confused:
hmm, you left out the other part cause you didn't have an answer. Once again since when in the states is being black not mean you are mix of things....since when does it mean you are 100% African...Isn't that what you are saying Halle is implying by saying she is black? I'm saying by saying you are black implies no such thing....in America most black people are a mix of many things namely white....

Where did I say he was ashamed of being black? :confused:

He had many racial issues when he was younger that's a fact no matter how much people want to sweep that under the rug...it's true. Has he grown up? Probably I don't know I don't follow him. I do know that without fame and money he would be just another black guy on the irt no matter what his mother looked like. ;) My very good friend is half filipino but she's my complexion...do you think when she's getting followed in a store by a shop owner they stop to look closely at her features or look at the roots of her hair? NO they see her dark skin and that's good enough for them. So when people say Tiger can be/say whatever he wants you're right he can but don't fool yourself that there's other mixed people out there that get the same luxuary. :rolleyes:

volta
Oct 7th, 2004, 07:17 PM
no pictures? DAM IT

G-Ha
Oct 7th, 2004, 07:57 PM
hmm, you left out the other part cause you didn't have an answer.No, I left out the other portion of your post because most of it was condescending (the "scant of knowledge" bit) and unnecessary.

Once again since when in the states is being black not mean you are mix of things....since when does it mean you are 100% African...Isn't that what you are saying Halle is implying by saying she is black? I'm saying by saying you are black implies no such thing....in America most black people are a mix of many things namely white....The difference is that unlike most "black" people in the U.S., Halle does not just have some distant white ancestry: her biological mother, the only parent she knew, is white. She was posed a specific question about her ethnicity given her dual heritage, and answered that she's black. She wasn't asked about the hue of her skin, she was asked what she considers herself, ethnically. I'm still at a loss for how you don't see this as a denial of her white heritage when she answers "black".

What if the tables were turned? And she answered that she's white? Many "white" people in the U.S. also have some distant Indian or African ancestry. So by your "logic", saying she's white wouldn't preclude her being black as well. That makes absolutely no sense.

Where did I say he was ashamed of being black? :confused:.You didn't. Sorry, I didn't intend to pose that question to you specifically. It was meant generally to those in this thread who have taken Tiger to task over acknowledging his entire heritage.

He had many racial issues when he was younger that's a fact no matter how much people want to sweep that under the rug...it's true. Has he grown up? Probably I don't know I don't follow him. I do know that without fame and money he would be just another black guy on the irt no matter what his mother looked like. ;) My very good friend is half filipino but she's my complexion...do you think when she's getting followed in a store by a shop owner they stop to look closely at her features or look at the roots of her hair? NO they see her dark skin and that's good enough for them. So when people say Tiger can be/say whatever he wants you're right he can but don't fool yourself that there's other mixed people out there that get the same luxuary. :rolleyes:He may very well have some real racial issues...I don't know as I don't follow him or his career. But he received a lot of flack just for the Cablinasian term alone, whereas Halle comes out only claiming one part of her heritage and no one bats an eyelash. I'm just calling it out as what it is: a double-standard...nothing more, nothing less.

SJW
Oct 7th, 2004, 08:06 PM
not a fan of Tiger at all....so i cant say i'm excited

Infiniti2001
Oct 7th, 2004, 08:11 PM
Halle mentions her mother being white in passing as if that fact has absolutely nothing to do with her and her heritage.

I respectfully disagree. Halle talks about her mom with so much love when she is on talk shows etc and usually mom is right beside her (I still remember the look on her face when Halle won that Oscar) . Many times she's talked about being bi-racial, but the reality is "people" see a black woman regardless.

angele87
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Also, a lot of this discussion is really bothering me. As a white male, I have no problem with interracial marriages, but if I did, I would be considered racist. Now why is it ok for African-Americans to say that other African-Americans shouldn't marry whites :confused:

Great post :worship:

I'd like to give out a huge :haha: to whoever is complaining about Tiger not going to the Jackie Robinson thing and then saying he didn't even have to go to the game, just take some pictures. As if people wouldn't have bashed him for that :lol: I can just about imagine the talk of Tiger not really caring and only trying to make himself look to care when he really doesn't :rolleyes: And for everything that has been said in here, give me a damn break. How often did Tiger mention the mixed race name he had ( AS A CHILD!) for himself? All of once I believe. As for not being proud to be black or anything else, consider the situation Tiger Woods is in for a second. He is hugely popular and the second he gets involved with any sort of agenda/social issue, he's going to get attacked from all sides. Being of mixed heritage, somebody would have something to say if he only supported African American causes, Caucasian causes or Asian causes. I'm sure Tiger doesn't have the time to speak out on a whole range of issues so he prefers to be quiet which I think is the right decision. I respect him for the work that he does, especially with children, and children of all races.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:18 PM
Great post :worship:

I'd like to give out a huge :haha: to whoever is complaining about Tiger not going to the Jackie Robinson thing and then saying he didn't even have to go to the game, just take some pictures. As if people wouldn't have bashed him for that :lol: I can just about imagine the talk of Tiger not really caring and only trying to make himself look to care when he really doesn't :rolleyes: And for everything that has been said in here, give me a damn break. How often did Tiger mention the mixed race name he had ( AS A CHILD!) for himself? All of once I believe. As for not being proud to be black or anything else, consider the situation Tiger Woods is in for a second. He is hugely popular and the second he gets involved with any sort of agenda/social issue, he's going to get attacked from all sides. Being of mixed heritage, somebody would have something to say if he only supported African American causes, Caucasian causes or Asian causes. I'm sure Tiger doesn't have the time to speak out on a whole range of issues so he prefers to be quiet which I think is the right decision. I respect him for the work that he does, especially with children, and children of all races.
I dont give a flying fuck who tiger or anyone else for that matter marries. I do care that he thumbs his nose at the legacy that blacks before us left us. Like Rocky said, if he was not THE TIGER WOODS, he would be just another brother on the IRT and it would be "lets follow his black ass"... Do you think shop keepers would look at him and say, "ok, he's CABLASIAN (whatever) so he should shop in peace" ? Hell no. Marry who you want, but you cant tell me that if all you date are the whitest of white women, you dont have serious issues...Do what you want Tiger, but sooner or later you all come running back...ask OJ and Michael. I am so sick of white members on this board pretending to know how we feel or how we should react...It's not the same if you said it...it will never be and it's not because of us...Your ancestors set the rules a long time ago...we have had to deal with it so cry me a fucking river and deal with it...:mad:

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:21 PM
Hmmmm now we all know why Serena withdrew from Filderstadt:) I hope she fully recovered from her knee injury when she was dancing :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't blame her. Why play a tennis tourney, when you can go to Tiger Wood's wedding. :p

decemberlove
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:22 PM
i have a theory about tiger woods...

he had hootie & the blowfish play at his wedding just so he wouldn't be the whitest black dude.

oh, and i think he's gay. this wedding is all a cover-up.

DA FOREHAND
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:23 PM
Regardless of who said what to her at a particular age, where is the outrage that she's denying part of her heritage? At least Tiger acknowledges what he is...I've never heard him describe himself as just Asian. Halle mentions her mother being white in passing as if that fact has absolutely nothing to do with her and her heritage.

There's no outrage because at the end of the day if Halle wasn't famous, nobody would question her heritage..Same goes for Tiger. Both would be called the N-word(and I'm sure both have had that experience) just as quickly as any other blk.

A house-nigga may not have worked the fields, but he was no less a nigga, and a slave.

DA FOREHAND
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:26 PM
I dont give a flying fuck who tiger or anyone else for that matter marries. I do care that he thumbs his nose at the legacy that blacks before us left us. Like Rocky said, if he was not THE TIGER WOODS, he would be just another brother on the IRT and it would be "lets follow his black ass"... Do you think shop keepers would look at him and say, "ok, he's CABLASIAN (whatever) so he should shop in peace" ? Hell no. Marry who you want, but you cant tell me that if all you date are the whitest of white women, you dont have serious issues...Do what you want Tiger, but sooner or later you all come running back...ask OJ and Michael. I am so sick of white members on this board pretending to know how we feel or how we should react...It's not the same if you said it...it will never be and it's not because of us...Your ancestors set the rules a long time ago...we have had to deal with it so cry me a fucking river and deal with it...:mad:


I like the way you tied justin "I don't know that black bitch, I'm going to the grammys" timberlake.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:29 PM
i have a theory about tiger woods...

he had hootie & the blowfish play at his wedding just so he wouldn't be the whitest black dude.

oh, and i think he's gay. this wedding is all a cover-up.
A lot of people say that about black men who dates only white women...:scratch:

RVD
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:31 PM
I was invited, too, but when I saw Britney Spears on the guest list, I just sent a gift instead.LOVE your posts Helen! they always crack me up! :lol:

Okay, so here we go again... :rolleyes:

Look people, in America 'race' is issue #1. No matter where you go, what you do, what you achieve, it smacks you right in the face because that's what those in power have designed for it to do. Get it?! No?

Okay, consider Venus and Serena's legendary status in tennis (since this is a tennis board). Are they celebrated as 'tennis' players when they win? No! They are celebrated as “The First Black ...this...”, or “The first Black ...that...” And this is through the media, which isn't black-owned. Again, I suggest people not familiar with this great country take the time to LEARN.

Okay, now that that point is made, the topic of Tiger Woods—

I fully understand the bad feelings surrounding him. I used to follow him for years, until I saw the real figure/image. And the fiasco surrounding, his denial of what he is, and his hands-off approach to women playing in the mens circuit. To me, this was the final straw concerning Tiger. He could have used his popularity to spread understanding and equality throughout both associations, but didn't. Can you say classless?

And here's the skinny on Tiger and Halle.
Unfortunately or fortunately, if you have 1/32 black blood here in the States, by American law you are Black. So Halle is CORRECT! Even her mother knows this and has taught her this. Blacks didn't write this stuff folks. they don't set the rules. Those wonderful framers of the Constitution, and those thereafter, did.

Personally, I don't care for Tiger Woods, and neither do I care about his marriage. He could marry an Martha Stewart and I wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Simply because I expect it from him.

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 09:59 PM
What you hear from tiger these days is really his handlers speaking. From the beginning tiger has been running from the part of himself that is black. Even during his early days in the spotlight you could hear the disdain in his voice for all things black. I remember him playing in Thailand, telling the crowds of how proud he was to be Thai and coming back to the States where someone called him black and him going ballistic. There is a lot of self hate in tiger.
I have to agree with this statement. This is what black people see and hear when it comes to Tiger. That's why he is accused of not being black enough. It's, however, not so much as him not being black enough, it's his disdaine for his blackness. I saw his biography on TV, and he was picked on, criticized, ridiculed, treated unfairly, physically abused and was a victim of prejudicial hate because of his blackness when he was a child and I think this made him hate that part of him. That's a demon only Tiger can exorcise.

Rocketta
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:00 PM
G-Ha, whose talking about distance relatives? Also, give your definition of black and what it means in America? Is it a complexion with some African blood? a Kid born of two mixed parents but comes out looking like me is he black or is mixed, mind his genetics are no different than a kid of a "black" and "white" parent. Are people going to carry cards around with them saying, "Don't follow me I'm only half-black?".. Halle calls herself black because no matter how light she is or who her mother is unless she can pass she will get the same treatment as the next black person. Unlike Tiger, Halle wasn't negative about one aspect of her being. She may call herself a black woman but she doesn't shun white people...or being mixed to her it is just a part of being a "black woman" You can try to act like white people in this country has had the intermixing in their ancestry as the black population but that would be a complete fallacy....The master impregnanted so many black women during slave times it's not even funny and that fun didn't end with slavery either....many maids were raped as fun by their employers with no reprecussions....so spare the :bs: about whites having just as much mixing in their heritage. It is only a recent phenomena where mixed race children have the option to even think about what they are who they want to be..Doesn't matter unless they are rich or can pass society will treat them just the same. Quite Frankly, if it wasn't for all those "black" people standing up for the right to be "black", Tiger's trifling ass couldn't chase all the blonde blue-eyed snatch that he does without hanging from a tree. Those people who fought for the right to be "black" in this country included many many many mixed children....to say calling yourself "black" is wrong if your mixed is a slap in the face to all those mixed people who had to fight for the right just to be "black" but that's just my opinion.

angele87
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:01 PM
I dont give a flying fuck who tiger or anyone else for that matter marries. I do care that he thumbs his nose at the legacy that blacks before us left us. Like Rocky said, if he was not THE TIGER WOODS, he would be just another brother on the IRT and it would be "lets follow his black ass"... Do you think shop keepers would look at him and say, "ok, he's CABLASIAN (whatever) so he should shop in peace" ? Hell no. Marry who you want, but you cant tell me that if all you date are the whitest of white women, you dont have serious issues...

If I said the exact same thing but turned it around ( if you're white and only date Afircan Americans) would you be telling me I'm racist? I can almost bet on it because I, and many other people, have been called racist for much less than that ( such as I think Serena's attitude is arrogant :rolleyes: ). But would that comment be racist? I personally think it would be. Anyways it's not as if Tiger Woods has dated 3439842938490 white women. He's had two serious girlfriends and they both happen to be white, big deal! As for him being 'just another black dude' yeah, he would be looked upon as that if he weren't famous but so what? That doesn't change the fact that he's from a mixed background.

Do what you want Tiger, but sooner or later you all come running back...ask OJ and Michael. I am so sick of white members on this board pretending to know how we feel or how we should react...It's not the same if you said it...it will never be and it's not because of us...Your ancestors set the rules a long time ago...we have had to deal with it so cry me a fucking river and deal with it...:mad:

I hope you're not talking about my ancestors because you have no idea who I am or what my ancestors have been through. I'll have you know that my ancestors were peaceful french people who came to North American simply looking for a place to live and land to farm on. And what happened? The british came and burned all their belongings, shipped them off to all sorts of places making sure to split up families. Do you have any idea how many of my ancestors died because of their culture? Imagine if right this day somebody came into your house, stole the things they wanted and burned the rest, and put you and your neighbor on one boat while your wife/husband is on another and your two kids are on yet another... only there were 3 kids before, one of them drowned when he fell off the boat. How would you feel? Maybe it's not slavery but don't talk about my ancestors as if they all lived a glorious lifestyle and never dealt with hardship. And as for me, yeah the British treated my ancestors horribly but I would never, EVER bring that into an arguement I was having with a british person. I don't even hold a grudge because why should I? Nobody today is responsible for what their great great grand father did 100 years ago. What's done is done. I'm just glad I live in country where being or a certain race or culture isn't such a big deal :shrug:

DA FOREHAND
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:05 PM
I never said she was trying to hide anything. And yes, she parades her white mother around with her everywhere, which makes her comments of "just being black" even more comical. Why not just acknowledge exactly what you are?

My point is that Tiger is consistently attacked for basically acknowledging all aspects of his heritage, while Halle completely denies hers and there's absolutely no problem with that (and I don't care who she parades around town...if she basically says she's only black, that's denying her white mother/heritage).
If she were denying her white mother would she be "parading" her all over town?

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Can you provide the article?
Also, where did this person get their info.
& who and how reliable are they?
OMG Kabuke...Tiger is not above suspicion or ridicule. We are not all idiots or racists accusing all bi-racial people of not embracing their black heritage. Tiger's actions speak louder than words and his words have not been minced when it comes to his black heritage. If you're going to say you're tri-racial or whatever he calls himself, then be proud and supportive of all three, not just two. :rolleyes:

Dawn Marie
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:06 PM
"Tiger is Coblasian and he is serious about his identity. It's a known fact that Tiger does not consider himself black and claims that would be denying a part of his Asian side. He is indeed the racially confused, and interracial relationships are known to produce this problem for alot children of mixed heritage."

Harloo I disagree with him being confused just because he does not consider himself all black.

I am bi-racial and I refuse to fall under some so called organized racial box.

We don't have to check one box to identify ourselves. I think it silly to have a white mother yet call oneself 100% black just because the "white man" can't deal with people being of mixed race yet not 100% white!! It is like if your skin is a bit darker than white you MUST lable yourself black!! or if your skin is White you must lable yourself a white person.

Why not just be mixed/bi-racial or better yet multi-cultral? I don't think it is I or Tiger who is CONFUSED, as we are not born confused, it is those fools who refuse to think outside that stupid little box.

P.S. I do find it foolish to only date your own race or only date outside of your race only!! That is what I think is stupid. Why limit yourself? Which I feel Tiger does. he likes the Euro look imho.

I just disagree about bi-racial people being "CONFUSED", and if a bi-racial person claims they are "black" or that they are "white" then they are lying to themselves and have self hate. If a white gal said I am not white I would think she was stupid. If a black man said I am not black I would think he was silly. If a bi-racial person states I am black and not white I find it stupid. If they state I am white and not black I will find them to ludicrus. Imho being black means that they aint no way your mamma can be a white women. It also means that aint no way you can be white if your daddy is a black man. You will be denying one.

I identify with the african american culture a helluva alot more than I do the white part of me, but I personally can't state that I am 100% black or a black women when my mom is clearly a white women. Although If I had to choose I would pick black because I identify with that part of my culture more then my white heritage.

I guess my feeling is why choose a side when one is clearly bi-racial? I think it just best to say one is both.

I mean if Halle wishes to say she is black because she feels black then I can't relate to that. Just like if a bi-racial states I am white. You can feel anyway you wish but your freaking gene background will never tell a lie.

if black gal said I am white cause she feels white I would bitch smack her. If a white women said I am black I would bitch smack her back to Pluto. I feel the same with bi-racial folks choosing sides. I just don't agree.

angele87
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:08 PM
If she were denying her white mother would she be "parading" her all over town?
Well you can't have it both ways... if Halle doesn't deny her white heritage because she parades her mother all around town then Tiger isn't denyting his heritage because he talks very lovingly about his father.

darrinbaker00
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:10 PM
If she were denying her white mother would she be "parading" her all over town?
Not only that, but it was her mom who told her that since the world would identify her as black, she may as well identify herself as black. If only her mom could have talked her out of "Catwoman"..... ;)

the cat
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:11 PM
All the best to Tiger and Elin. :)

That was a thoughtful and thought provoking race post by Dawn Marie. :)

ghosts
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:14 PM
Venus and Serena Williams, Oprah Winfrey, Britney Spears and Bill Gates

nice crowd :p

decemberlove
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:14 PM
G-Ha, whose talking about distance relatives? Also, give your definition of black and what it means in America? Is it a complexion with some African blood? a Kid born of two mixed parents but comes out looking like me is he black or is mixed, mind his genetics are no different than a kid of a "black" and "white" parent. Are people going to carry cards around with them saying, "Don't follow me I'm only half-black?".. Halle calls herself black because no matter how light she is or who her mother is unless she can pass she will get the same treatment as the next black person. Unlike Tiger, Halle wasn't negative about one aspect of her being. She may call herself a black woman but she doesn't shun white people...or being mixed to her it is just a part of being a "black woman" You can try to act like white people in this country has had the intermixing in their ancestry as the black population but that would be a complete fallacy....The master impregnanted so many black women during slave times it's not even funny and that fun didn't end with slavery either....many maids were raped as fun by their employers with no reprecussions....so spare the :bs: about whites having just as much mixing in their heritage. It is only a recent phenomena where mixed race children have the option to even think about what they are who they want to be..Doesn't matter unless they are rich or can pass society will treat them just the same. Quite Frankly, if it wasn't for all those "black" people standing up for the right to be "black", Tiger's trifling ass couldn't chase all the blonde blue-eyed snatch that he does without hanging from a tree. Those people who fought for the right to be "black" in this country included many many many mixed children....to say calling yourself "black" is wrong if your mixed is a slap in the face to all those mixed people who had to fight for the right just to be "black" but that's just my opinion.
rockie is right.

in this country, if you look black, you ARE black. people don't care about your ancestry, no matter how many times you tell them you are mixed. even people with VERY light skin and black features are often referred to as black. this applies to whites mixed with asians and latinos [even thou we are not really a "race"] and indians. if your looks fit the stereotype of that race, then that's what you are. its almost an implication that the white in a mixed person is tainted, so they are automatically labelled the other "minority" race. i don't consider this racism, however, like some may. i DO think it says a lot about the rich, white roots of this country... the tendency to label someone and put them in a box shows how deeply embedded our racial issues are.

darrinbaker00
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:15 PM
All the best to Tiger and Elin. :)

That was a thoughtful and thought provoking race post by Dawn Marie. :)
Yes, congratulations, Sir Eldrick. Now would you PLEASE reconcile with Butch Harmon? ;)

Dawn Marie
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:19 PM
by the by I know that society will treat Halle and us like her, like the next black person. if the next black person was light that is. Get real here, lighter folks get better treatment then our darker skinned counter-parts, although imho this is changing for the better. I am well aware of how we will get the same treatment overall, like black folks,but I REFUSE to fit into their stereotype box and check black because of the White Man's ignorance. It is time bi-racial folks step on up and make their own TRUE box and at the same time not have to deny a part of them to suit those that are ignorant. The Halle's of the world are buying into the stereotyping system. And yes a part of me feels good that she prefers to be labled black over white, but damnit it is not the truth. She knows this when she turns her head looking at her momma. I agree with Mariah Carey's approach, just be yourself. and fuck those who don't get it and are confused that we are able to choose "many" boxes and not just one.

Are there any pics of Venus and Serena Williams at this wedding?:)

the cat
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:21 PM
This has developed into a very interesting thread with alot of intelligent posts. I guess the bottom line is race is hard to figure out and sometimes it's hard to understand the complexities of race.

DA FOREHAND
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:23 PM
Well you can't have it both ways... if Halle doesn't deny her white heritage because she parades her mother all around town then Tiger isn't denyting his heritage because he talks very lovingly about his father.
I really don't care what she or any other mixed race person calls themselves. I am a bit tired of blacks trying to claim people who don't wish to be claimed. Mariah, Tiger...etc etc

Martian Willow
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:24 PM
http://www.emotipad.com/emoticons/Thud.gif I agree with Dawn Marie.

Rocketta
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:26 PM
by the by I know that society will treat Halle and us like her, like the next black person. if the next black person was light that is. Get real here, lighter folks get better treatment then our darker skinned counter-parts, although imho this is changing for the better. I am well aware of how we will get the same treatment overall, like black folks,but I REFUSE to fit into their stereotype box and check black because of the White Man's ignorance. It is time bi-racial folks step on up and make their own TRUE box and at the same time not have to deny a part of them to suit those that are ignorant. The Halle's of the world are buying into the stereotyping system. And yes a part of me feels good that she prefers to be labled black over white, but damnit it is not the truth. She knows this when she turns her head looking at her momma. I agree with Mariah Carey's approach, just be yourself. and fuck those who don't get it and are confused that we are able to choose "many" boxes and not just one.

Are there any pics of Venus and Serena Williams at this wedding?:)
Dawn, I have to disagree not particularly with this post but your other one...because the term "black" stopped meaning exclusively a 100% anything 9 months after the arrival of the African on American soil...;) The term "black" included mixed heritage children as well. I understand you want to define yourself as something else but to say that Halle using that term means she considers herself 100% of one thing I don't agree not with our history and the use of that term.

OUT!
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:28 PM
"Tiger is Coblasian and he is serious about his identity. It's a known fact that Tiger does not consider himself black and claims that would be denying a part of his Asian side. He is indeed the racially confused, and interracial relationships are known to produce this problem for alot children of mixed heritage." [naugthy, lol]

Harloo I disagree with him being confused just because he does not consider himself all black.

I am bi-racial and I refuse to fall under some so called organized racial box.

We don't have to check one box to identify ourselves. I think it silly to have a white mother yet call oneself 100% black just because the "white man" can't deal with people being of mixed race yet not 100% white!! It is like if your skin is a bit darker than white you MUST lable yourself black!! or if your skin is White you must lable yourself a white person.

Why not just be mixed/bi-racial or better yet multi-cultral? I don't think it is I or Tiger who is CONFUSED, as we are not born confused, it is those fools who refuse to think outside that stupid little box.

P.S. I do find it foolish to only date your own race or only date outside of your race only!! That is what I think is stupid. Why limit yourself? Which I feel Tiger does. he likes the Euro look imho.

I just disagree about bi-racial people being "CONFUSED", and if a bi-racial person claims they are "black" or that they are "white" then they are lying to themselves and have self hate. If a white gal said I am not white I would think she was stupid. If a black man said I am not black I would think he was silly. If a bi-racial person states I am black and not white I find it stupid. If they state I am white and not black I will find them to ludicrus. Imho being black means that they aint no way your mamma can be a white women. It also means that aint no way you can be white if your daddy is a black man. You will be denying one.

I identify with the african american culture a helluva alot more than I do the white part of me, but I personally can't state that I am 100% black or a black women when my mom is clearly a white women. Although If I had to choose I would pick black because I identify with that part of my culture more then my white heritage.

I guess my feeling is why choose a side when one is clearly bi-racial? I think it just best to say one is both.

I mean if Halle wishes to say she is black because she feels black then I can't relate to that. Just like if a bi-racial states I am white. You can feel anyway you wish but your freaking gene background will never tell a lie.

if black gal said I am white cause she feels white I would bitch smack her. If a white women said I am black I would bitch smack her back to Pluto. I feel the same with bi-racial folks choosing sides. I just don't agree.What a wonderful post! :worship: :worship: :worship:

the cat
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:28 PM
You're right darinn. It's time Tiger brought Butch Harmon back as his coach. i think that would help Tiger's technique and and his confidence.

Pureracket
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:31 PM
I really don't care what she or any other mixed race person calls themselves. I am a bit tired of blacks trying to claim people who don't wish to be claimed. Mariah, Tiger...etc etcI don't know if Blacks are actually claiming the likes of Mariah and Tiger. I think it might have to deal with the fact that any Black person who looks like Mariah and Tiger who isn't a famous singer or athlete is definitely Black. . .lol.

We know Black people who look like Mariah and who look like Tiger. Because they are not super famous and rich, though, their "Blackness" is already established.:D

Stamp Paid
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:34 PM
I wanna know, how far down the line is the Caucasian in Tiger's Cablinasian? If he considers the white that is far down in his ancestry over the black that he has lived with all his life, he has a problem.

Dawn Marie
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:35 PM
Why does a mixed person have to claim anything or ONLY one thing? I am tired of people not understanding that a bi-racial person should be truthful and not fall into society rules and their ignorant treatment of people. Just because the man will treat me less than a white person does not mean that I should deny my own mother's background, WHICH since she birthed me is MY background. As well as I should not deny my father's background if the roles were reversed.

I do feel that Tiger likes only Euro looking women, which pisses me off. Mariah is not like Tiger imho.

Martian Willow
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:38 PM
Should a person define themselves by what they feel they are, or what other people think they are?

Rocketta
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:38 PM
I wanna know, how far down the line is the Caucasian in Tiger's Cablinasian? If he considers the white that is far down in his ancestry over the black that he has lived with all his life, he has a problem.
Good question? :confused:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:41 PM
OMG Kabuke...Tiger is not above suspicion or ridicule. We are not all idiots or racists accusing all bi-racial people of not embracing their black heritage. Tiger's actions speak louder than words and his words have not been minced when it comes to his black heritage. If you're going to say you're tri-racial or whatever he calls himself, then be proud and supportive of all three, not just two. :rolleyes:

Pull it back and bring it down, please! :yawn:

Did I say he was above suspicion?
Did I imply "we" (whom ever "we" are)
idiots or racists?
If I did then by all means, go right ahead!

As I said from the beginning,
it's just my opinion and if your perception is
that I'm attacking you or whom ever, that wasn't my intention
and I apologize for your perception of what it is that I've said.

I know Tiger about as well as many if not all on this board do,
which isn't saying much. I therefore choose to give the man
who is nothing more than human like the rest of us the
benefit of the doubt.

You say actions speak louder than words
and base that on something which can not possibly
begin to encapsulate all of who he is which is something
here or their that you see in the media and how and in
what form they choose to pass it along to the public.

Until you've walked a mile in his shoes which is not only
living as a multi-cultural person(and all that entails) and
then having to deal with it in front of the public where some simply assume it's their right to somehow force him to defend and explain who and what he is, then please get back to me.

Why is it that he has to justify who he is to you
or anyone else for that matter living up to some standard
set by those who don't know him to try and defend what he
is, who he is, and how he chooses to live his life.

Instead of having a discussion and trying to talk,
people immediately insult, tear down, and make nasty comments
which automatically negate any real opportunity of a productive and meanigful discussion that everyone hears and that doesn't get lost in
all the negative rhedoric.

Like I said, it's just my opinion and if you want to talk, talk.
However, don't come with immediate insults and then expect
to have anything meaniful occur when you've immediately put
someone on the defensive and they no longer hear, truly hear
what you're saying.

Amorc
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:46 PM
Hmmm.....quite interesting what some you think about Tiger, 99% of the time you are complaining about being treated different because you are black and the other 1% of the time you attack people like Tiger because he is part black. If he was white you wouldnt have a problem with him or what he does or doesnt do, but because he is part black you treat him like he's some kind of leper. Whats the word I'm trying to think of ..................ahhh yes: Hypocritical.

Ps. Anyone else think that Cam'ron and Lizchris may be the same person? Surely there cant be two people THAT dumb in this world.

Stamp Paid
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:48 PM
OK, so who here actually believes that Tiger has absolutely NO problem with the Negroid part of his ancestry, and would give a black woman an equal opportunity to date him?http://wtaworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:48 PM
All I have to say is that tiger woods would not have married a black nanny just like OJ simpson would never have married a black waitress. Some of these black men never cease to amaze. I just don't know why when these black men acquire all of this money they feel that black women are not good enough for them.....so, so, so sad.

And you'll never get anywhere with that type of attitude.

Is it a valid concern for many, ofcourse.
However, when you come at a man of any color
like that making him feel attacked or ridiculed his instinctive
response is to go on the defensive and attack and he won't
listen to anything you have to say.

When you come at a man and simply generalize him into a group based on you predjudices in having dealt or been wittness to a similar circumstance
you make snap judgements and don't even consider the circumstances.

As sad or however misguided you claim him
to be, you should also take a look at yourself.

What I want to understand is why people feel the need
to impede, attack, and try to tear each other down.

What purpose does it serve and in the end
what do you hope to accomplish versus what
is actually accomplished?

Dawn Marie
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:49 PM
"Dawn, I have to disagree not particularly with this post but your other one...because the term "black" stopped meaning exclusively a 100% anything 9 months after the arrival of the African on American soil...;) The term "black" included mixed heritage children as well. I understand you want to define yourself as something else but to say that Halle using that term means she considers herself 100% of one thing I don't agree not with our history and the use of that term."


I understand what you are saying and I agree about society wanting all of us to feel that just cause a person is mixed that it means that they are black. I just disagree with this way of thinking and am not afraid to sway from the norm. My mother imho taught me the truth and alot better than those idiots did who decided to put me in a box. My mom taught me to think outside of it. I do empthize with Halle's way of thinking and feeling, yet I feel my mother has taught me the truth. The white man has never done that, not as far as I can see in my history.

I just feel that a person who clearly has a white or a black parent should not lable themself one or the other. Hell imho we need to drop the lables anyway,but America is so far behind when it comes to race that it is laughable.:)

You know being Bi-racial, it is worrying sometimes that people will feel that I am denying a black or a white side of me. They want me to pick one. Hell at times I feel like I HAVE to choose. Then I realize many folks are still "confused".

Stamp Paid
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:51 PM
And you'll never get anywhere with that type of attitude.

Is it a valid concern for many, ofcourse.
However, when you come at a man of any color
like that making him feel attacked or ridiculed his instinctive
response is to go on the defensive and attack and he won't
listen to anything you have to say.

When you come at a man and simply generalize him into a group based on you predjudices in having dealt or been wittness to a similar circumstance
you make snap judgements and don't even consider the circumstances.

As sad or however misguided you claim him
to be, you should also take a look at yourself.

What I want to understand is why people feel the need
to impede, attack, and try to tear each other down.

What purpose does it serve and in the end
what do you hope to accomplish versus what
is actually accomplished?
Kabuke, my friend, being critical of Tiger's actions and questioning how he feels about his racial identity is not tearing the man down.

AkademiQ
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:52 PM
Are there any pictures of Venus and Serena at Tiger's wedding?

smarties
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:53 PM
My god!!! you guys are making such a big deal about nothing :rolleyes:

A MAN married A WOMAN. That's it, doesn't matter if she's white or yellow with pink polka dots all over and 3 tits... bottom line, they love each other and it's there BUSINESS!!!

BTW, I personally think that categorizing people is typically american cause up here, in the great white north, I can tell you from personnal experience that people are not as inclined to make you fit in a little box.

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:54 PM
Hmmm.....quite interesting what some you think about Tiger, 99% of the time you are complaining about being treated different because you are black and the other 1% of the time you attack people like Tiger because he is part black. If he was white you wouldnt have a problem with him or what he does or doesnt do, but because he is part black you treat him like he's some kind of leper. Whats the word I'm trying to think of ..................ahhh yes: Hypocritical.

Ps. Anyone else think that Cam'ron and Lizchris may be the same person?

I remeber Paula Abdul saying when she was younger,
she was to lite for the black kids, and to dark for the
white kids, never really finding a place to fit in.

You don't know where you fit and a lot of people
don't understand how you're feeling.

It's easier to say things and give instant remedies
to things when people haven't had to deal and don't
seem to understand it's far more complex and not so
balck and white, cut and dry.

BTW,
NO WAY!

Cam = lizchris! :o

Rocketta
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:56 PM
OK, so who here actually believes that Tiger has absolutely NO problem with the Negroid part of his ancestry, and would give a black woman an equal opportunity to date him?http://wtaworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
:spit:

Hell I don't even think Tiger would date anyone who wasn't a natural blonde..:lol:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Kabuke, my friend, being critical of Tiger's actions and questioning how he feels about his racial identity is not tearing the man down.

And I don't think it is but,
as my words have been percieved by some in
how I had intended, I am percieving it that way.

When a person is torn down based on limited
knowledge of them, that's how I consider it and
what I consider is being done.

Martian Willow
Oct 7th, 2004, 10:57 PM
OK, so who here actually believes that Tiger has absolutely NO problem with the Negroid part of his ancestry, and would give a black woman an equal opportunity to date him?http://wtaworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

Don't know about the first bit, but personally I don't think I've ever made a conscious decision about what 'kinds' of people I find attractive. :)

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:01 PM
OK, so who here actually believes that Tiger has absolutely NO problem with the Negroid part of his ancestry, and would give a black woman an equal opportunity to date him?http://wtaworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

And that is somehow supposed to define
his "blackness"? Surely you jest?

If he dated a black girl and married a white girl
those who are anger or what have you would still
say the same.

Why is their the need to be all up
in someone else's personally business when
you don't know them from Adam or what their
live has been like and yet still presume to say that
they hate themselves or part of themselves or are
out of touch wheather it true or false.

I'm not saying internal struggles don't go on for many
but, why is their the need to be so critical?

Why does it pain people so?

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:08 PM
I dont give a flying fuck who tiger or anyone else for that matter marries. I do care that he thumbs his nose at the legacy that blacks before us left us. Like Rocky said, if he was not THE TIGER WOODS, he would be just another brother on the IRT and it would be "lets follow his black ass"... Do you think shop keepers would look at him and say, "ok, he's CABLASIAN (whatever) so he should shop in peace" ? Hell no. Marry who you want, but you cant tell me that if all you date are the whitest of white women, you dont have serious issues...Do what you want Tiger, but sooner or later you all come running back...ask OJ and Michael. I am so sick of white members on this board pretending to know how we feel or how we should react...It's not the same if you said it...it will never be and it's not because of us...Your ancestors set the rules a long time ago...we have had to deal with it so cry me a fucking river and deal with it...:mad:
:worship: :worship: :worship:
Tell it like it T I --IS brother!!!!

Stamp Paid
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:10 PM
And that is somehow supposed to define
his "blackness"? Surely you jest?

If he dated a black girl and married a white girl
those who are anger or what have you would still
say the same.

Why is their the need to be all up
in someone else's personally business when
you don't know them from Adam or what their
live has been like and yet still presume to say that
they hate themselves or part of themselves or are
out of touch wheather it true or false.

I'm not saying internal struggles don't go on for many
but, why is their the need to be so critical?

Why does it pain people so?
This term "blackness", I dont know what that means.

However, Tiger had no problem identifying/celebrating his Thai heritage, I assume that he has no problem labelling himself anything. Since he is half Thai and half Black, shouldn't he celebrate the heritage of both his African American side AND his Thai side, instead of just his Thai side?

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Your ancestors set the rules a long time ago...we have had to deal with it so cry me a fucking river and deal with it...:mad:

So your saying the rules can't be changed and
future generations should simply be content to
deal with this over and over and over again?

Get pssiy all you want Cam but, the fact is that
some are not content to just let it be and simply
allow it to festor w/o trying to make things better.

The only crying I see is coming from the people who can't
or not willing to except that times have changed and are
in the process everyday.

In learning history, yes, you learn from the past and appreciate
all they've done and when through, while also learning from the
mistakes and trying not to repeat them.

As you know, me being an optimist at heart won't allow me to simply
accept it without atleast trying to change it or make it better in some
way shape or form no matter how iniscule.

That's just me.

As we've done on many occassions, we
can just agree to disagree but, atleast we've
tried to get our points accross if nothing more
and talk about it and not just sweep it under the rug
and hope it magically disappears. :wavey:

tennischick
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:21 PM
outside of his breath-taking skills as a golfer, i get the impression that Tiger is rather dull, introverted, and shallow. he almost doesn't ave a personality. i can't imagine any intelligent Black woman finding him even remotely interesting. i also don't find him at all attractive. the nanny is perfectly entitled to have him i say. the better question is how long she will stick around and how much of his money will he have to part with if she leaves.

also, i had no idea that he and Serena and Venus were friends. i remember a Venus interview several years ago when she claimed to have no idea who he was! does anyone else remember this?

has Tiger ever been on Oprah? are these "friendships" or invitees for show? :confused:

Paneru
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:21 PM
This term "blackness", I dont know what that means.

However, Tiger had no problem identifying/celebrating his Thai heritage, I assume that he has no problem labelling himself anything. Since he is half Thai and half Black, shouldn't he celebrate the heritage of both his African American side AND his Thai side, instead of just his Thai side?

Ofcourse!

However, does he need to make a public declaration of
it for it to somehow be valid in the eyes of people who
think like you do?

I can't begin to imagine the tremendous burden that he has felt and been put under to somehow justify who and what he is. Also being defined by the isolated incidents you see in a media controlled environment?

harloo
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:23 PM
outside of his breath-taking skills as a golfer, i get the impression that Tiger is rather dull, introverted, and shallow. he almost doesn't ave a personality. i can't imagine any intelligent Black woman finding him even remotely interesting. i also don't find him at all attractive. the nanny is perfectly entitled to have him i say. the better question is how long she will stick around and how much of his money will he have to part with if she leaves.

also, i had no idea that he and Serena and Venus were friends. i remember a Venus interview several years ago when she claimed to have no idea who he was! does anyone else remember this?

has Tiger ever been on Oprah? are these "friendships" or invitees for show? :confused:
:lol:

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:25 PM
G-Ha, whose talking about distance relatives? Also, give your definition of black and what it means in America? Is it a complexion with some African blood? a Kid born of two mixed parents but comes out looking like me is he black or is mixed, mind his genetics are no different than a kid of a "black" and "white" parent. Are people going to carry cards around with them saying, "Don't follow me I'm only half-black?".. Halle calls herself black because no matter how light she is or who her mother is unless she can pass she will get the same treatment as the next black person. Unlike Tiger, Halle wasn't negative about one aspect of her being. She may call herself a black woman but she doesn't shun white people...or being mixed to her it is just a part of being a "black woman" You can try to act like white people in this country has had the intermixing in their ancestry as the black population but that would be a complete fallacy....The master impregnanted so many black women during slave times it's not even funny and that fun didn't end with slavery either....many maids were raped as fun by their employers with no reprecussions....so spare the :bs: about whites having just as much mixing in their heritage. It is only a recent phenomena where mixed race children have the option to even think about what they are who they want to be..Doesn't matter unless they are rich or can pass society will treat them just the same. Quite Frankly, if it wasn't for all those "black" people standing up for the right to be "black", Tiger's trifling ass couldn't chase all the blonde blue-eyed snatch that he does without hanging from a tree. Those people who fought for the right to be "black" in this country included many many many mixed children....to say calling yourself "black" is wrong if your mixed is a slap in the face to all those mixed people who had to fight for the right just to be "black" but that's just my opinion.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
High five...sister girl!!

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:28 PM
And as for me, yeah the British treated my ancestors horribly but I would never, EVER bring that into an arguement I was having with a british person. I don't even hold a grudge because why should I?
Ya just did and looks like ya do. :tape:

Stamp Paid
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:33 PM
Ofcourse!

However, does he need to make a public declaration of
it for it to somehow be valid in the eyes of people who
think like you do?

I can't begin to imagine the tremendous burden that he has felt and been put under to somehow justify who and what he is. Also being defined by the isolated incidents you see in a media controlled environment? Tiger is a golfer, he has never had to justify who he is. He has had to justify what he has called himself, and some of his actions, but Tiger has NEVER been criticized for simply being 1/2 Thai/ 1/2 black. The criticism came for him when he chose not to identify with his black side as equally as his Thai side.

He made the public declaration of his pride in his Thai side, so its not as if Tiger has not chosen which part of himself he prefers, and black people are just hounding him unfairly.

harloo
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:34 PM
Harloo I disagree with him being confused just because he does not consider himself all black.

I am bi-racial and I refuse to fall under some so called organized racial box.


Dawn I read your post, and I still think Tiger is racially confused. I did make an error because I meant to say that Tiger uses denying the Asian side of him as a scapegoat for refusing to acknowledge his black side.

I don't feel anyone needs to be put in a box at all, but when you start to disrespect one side of your ethnicity that you despise then that's self hate. And I'm afraid Tiger is not the first one, and will not be the last one.

Now am I saying that is the case with ALL bi-racial children? No, I am simply saying that some are racially confused about where they belong.
It was not a direct attack on you or anyone here for that matter, but it's just been my experience with certain bi-racial friends.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:35 PM
Considering that Tiger is of mixed ethnicity and wishes to acknowledge that, how exactly is that being "racially confused"? I would think confusion sets in by NOT acknowledging all of one's heritage.

And for all the people who lambast Tiger for allegedly denying or at least not embracing his black heritage, are you equally appalled when Halle Berry repeatedly tells everyone that she is "black" even though she is half white (and clearly looks bi-racial), was raised by her white mother, and had/has absolutely no connection with her black father? Is that equally troubling? Didn't think so...

I have a LOT of problems with Halle Berry and they have nothing to do with her heritage, because she has acknowledged that her late father was black (he died last year or in 2002). I have a problem with the roles she has picked in her career and the fact that she never reconciled with her father before he died. Maybe if she did, she wouldn't have the problems she is having with men.

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:41 PM
Oh, so the way to get through to
the next generation is to critisize and
berate them because they are living and have
grown up in a different time from your's and their in
don't realize or appreciate as much of what they have today.

People of our generation are beginning to learn and
have a lot more to learn but being negative and shitty
to them and taking that type of attitude gets absolutely nothing
accomplished!

It also doesn't get anything accomplished by telling people they are irrational because they hold an opinion that you don't agree with. If I don't agree with someone, I don't waste my time saying those things; I just give my opinion on the subject at hand.

decemberlove
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:41 PM
But it does matter when it comes to most black men with money they never married their own. As a matter of fact even (some, majority) of the black men without money does not married their own black women. Sad indeed.
so should blacks only marry blacks? and whites only marry whites? and asians only marry asians? and what should we do with all the racially mixed latinos? should they only marry those with the same skin color?

some, majority? the fuck is that supposed to mean?

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:48 PM
Great post :worship:

I'd like to give out a huge :haha: to whoever is complaining about Tiger not going to the Jackie Robinson thing and then saying he didn't even have to go to the game, just take some pictures. As if people wouldn't have bashed him for that :lol: I can just about imagine the talk of Tiger not really caring and only trying to make himself look to care when he really doesn't :rolleyes: And for everything that has been said in here, give me a damn break. How often did Tiger mention the mixed race name he had ( AS A CHILD!) for himself? All of once I believe. As for not being proud to be black or anything else, consider the situation Tiger Woods is in for a second. He is hugely popular and the second he gets involved with any sort of agenda/social issue, he's going to get attacked from all sides. Being of mixed heritage, somebody would have something to say if he only supported African American causes, Caucasian causes or Asian causes. I'm sure Tiger doesn't have the time to speak out on a whole range of issues so he prefers to be quiet which I think is the right decision. I respect him for the work that he does, especially with children, and children of all races.

That "thing" you speak of was a special anniversary and belive me, Jackie Robinson's family wasn't laughing when he didn't show up and the flimsy reason he gave.:rolleyes:

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:51 PM
Pull it back and bring it down, please! :yawn:
No babe, I think it's you who needs to pull it down a notch.
Did I say he was above suspicion?
Did I imply "we" (whom ever "we" are)
idiots or racists?
If I did then by all means, go right ahead!

As I said from the beginning,
it's just my opinion and if your perception is
that I'm attacking you or whom ever, that wasn't my intention
and I apologize for your perception of what it is that I've said.

I know Tiger about as well as many if not all on this board do,
which isn't saying much. I therefore choose to give the man
who is nothing more than human like the rest of us the
benefit of the doubt.
No, but you defend him like you're his mama. Give him the benefit of the doubt of what? That he really cares about his black heritage and he doesn't have disdain for it or shun it? :lol: Give me a freaking break. "We" are those who are in agreement on this issue. Nothing to do with, God forbid, being black, white, bi-racial or tri-racial.

You say actions speak louder than words
and base that on something which can not possibly
begin to encapsulate all of who he is which is something
here or their that you see in the media and how and in
what form they choose to pass it along to the public.
No, by his own actions or shall I say inactions and his own words that I hear coming out of his own mouth.

Until you've walked a mile in his shoes which is not only
living as a multi-cultural person(and all that entails) and
then having to deal with it in front of the public where some simply assume it's their right to somehow force him to defend and explain who and what he is, then please get back to me.
:rolleyes: I'm sure bi-racial people have it much harder than people who consider themselves black in the US. :lol: You must be out of your mind. What makes him so much more special than Venus and Serena or any other famous black person who have to defend and explain themselves everyday? Because he's bi-racial he should be exempt?? :lol:

Why is it that he has to justify who he is to you
or anyone else for that matter living up to some standard
set by those who don't know him to try and defend what he
is, who he is, and how he chooses to live his life.
He doesn't have to justify who he is, he has to justify his actions, inactions and words regarding his black heritage. He's the one who got defensive about being black from the beginning.

Instead of having a discussion and trying to talk,
people immediately insult, tear down, and make nasty comments
which automatically negate any real opportunity of a productive and meanigful discussion that everyone hears and that doesn't get lost in
all the negative rhedoric.
In what post of mine did I insult, tear down or make nasty comments about Tiger Woods?

Like I said, it's just my opinion and if you want to talk, talk.
However, don't come with immediate insults and then expect
to have anything meaniful occur when you've immediately put
someone on the defensive and they no longer hear, truly hear
what you're saying.

First of all, I don't believe I made any insulting remarks about Tiger. Secondly, I feel the same about all that you've been saying. Same old bs, different day.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:52 PM
Ps. Anyone else think that Cam'ron and Lizchris may be the same person? Surely there cant be two people THAT dumb in this world.
:rolleyes: Please quote what you thaugh was dumb of everything I said in this thread?

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:55 PM
Kabuke, my friend, being critical of Tiger's actions and questioning how he feels about his racial identity is not tearing the man down.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

DeDe4925
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:56 PM
OK, so who here actually believes that Tiger has absolutely NO problem with the Negroid part of his ancestry, and would give a black woman an equal opportunity to date him?http://wtaworld.com/ubb/smile.gif
Right??!! COME ON...let's see those hands. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:56 PM
outside of his breath-taking skills as a golfer, i get the impression that Tiger is rather dull, introverted, and shallow. he almost doesn't ave a personality. i can't imagine any intelligent Black woman finding him even remotely interesting. i also don't find him at all attractive. the nanny is perfectly entitled to have him i say. the better question is how long she will stick around and how much of his money will he have to part with if she leaves.

also, i had no idea that he and Serena and Venus were friends. i remember a Venus interview several years ago when she claimed to have no idea who he was! does anyone else remember this?

has Tiger ever been on Oprah? are these "friendships" or invitees for show? :confused:
:haha: :haha: I hear ya chick...:haha: I dont believe that any of these people are friends with him...Window dressing I think...:haha:

decemberlove
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:58 PM
Come on you know exactly what I am talking about...Maybe you don't so I will take that back.
no, i dont.

so maybe you should explain.

are you saying its okay for some blacks to marry outside their race, but not a lot of them? should we draw the line on how many can marry outside of their race?

lizchris
Oct 7th, 2004, 11:58 PM
G-Ha, whose talking about distance relatives? Also, give your definition of black and what it means in America? Is it a complexion with some African blood? a Kid born of two mixed parents but comes out looking like me is he black or is mixed, mind his genetics are no different than a kid of a "black" and "white" parent. Are people going to carry cards around with them saying, "Don't follow me I'm only half-black?".. Halle calls herself black because no matter how light she is or who her mother is unless she can pass she will get the same treatment as the next black person. Unlike Tiger, Halle wasn't negative about one aspect of her being. She may call herself a black woman but she doesn't shun white people...or being mixed to her it is just a part of being a "black woman" You can try to act like white people in this country has had the intermixing in their ancestry as the black population but that would be a complete fallacy....The master impregnanted so many black women during slave times it's not even funny and that fun didn't end with slavery either....many maids were raped as fun by their employers with no reprecussions....so spare the :bs: about whites having just as much mixing in their heritage. It is only a recent phenomena where mixed race children have the option to even think about what they are who they want to be..Doesn't matter unless they are rich or can pass society will treat them just the same. Quite Frankly, if it wasn't for all those "black" people standing up for the right to be "black", Tiger's trifling ass couldn't chase all the blonde blue-eyed snatch that he does without hanging from a tree. Those people who fought for the right to be "black" in this country included many many many mixed children....to say calling yourself "black" is wrong if your mixed is a slap in the face to all those mixed people who had to fight for the right just to be "black" but that's just my opinion.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:02 AM
Tiger is a golfer, he has never had to justify who he is. He has had to justify what he has called himself, and some of his actions, but Tiger has NEVER been criticized for simply being 1/2 Thai/ 1/2 black. The criticism came for him when he chose not to identify with his black side as equally as his Thai side.

He made the public declaration of his pride in his Thai side, so its not as if Tiger has not chosen which part of himself he prefers, and black people are just hounding him unfairly.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
That's all I've been trying to say.

Stamp Paid
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:03 AM
DeDe, we are seeing everything eye-to-eye tonight! http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:05 AM
DeDe, we are seeing everything eye-to-eye tonight! http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif
As usual. ;) :hug:

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:07 AM
:rolleyes: Please quote what you thaugh was dumb of everything I said in this thread?

He can't.

Notice he/she/it made the comment and just ran away. Cam, I would not worry about him/her/it.

DUNEMAN
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:22 AM
:wavey: Maybe, if we examine, what physical attributes may motivate an attraction to a particular group of people, then we may better understand, why a child of mixed parentage would choose to either perpetuate their racial mixture by choosing exclusively to date or marry those that compliment the attraction, or rebel totally against any further mixing. Simply put, Tiger is attracted to the Euro-Type and probably would like to see as many of the attributes of his attraction reproduced in his children, what does that say about his self-esteem?, And then there is that very unstable element called "Love" that could cause many of the posters here to marry a five legged cyclops if cupids arrow penetrates your breast. This issue can be argued into infinity, it is however genetically a done deal because any mixture will produce every possible combination except one :wavey:

angele87
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Ya just did and looks like ya do. :tape:

Huh :scratch: What have I ever said that would indicate that I have something against the British? :scratch: I don't think I even mentioned anything ever on here about the British before today and that was to erm, say I didn't have anything against them... *is utterly confused* And if Cam'ron Gilles, the person I was talking to, is British, American flag and all, I had no idea. Not that it would make any difference of course but I wasn't saying that to bring it into the arguement, I was merely saying that people shouldn't talk about my ancestors before they know the whole story. You make no sense anyway, if you're going to bother replying to one of my posts at least explain yourself :shrug:

angele87
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:44 AM
That "thing" you speak of was a special anniversary and belive me, Jackie Robinson's family wasn't laughing when he didn't show up and the flimsy reason he gave.:rolleyes:
Are you honestly trying to tell me that if Tiger Woods had showed up for the Jackie Robinson anniversary just to pose for pictures with the President and Robinson's family and then fled asap, you'd have been happy with that? Please. You obviously have something against Tiger Woods and you'd find fault with anything that he does. You'd have said that his going to the anniversary was just for show and that he didn't really care. And don't even bother telling me that omg, now I can read your mind because that is SO predictable. All I'm saying is that based on your attitude towards Tiger, that's the kind of reaction I think you would have had. And don't tell me either that all this hostility towards Tiger is because he didn't go to the Jackie Robinson anniversary :rolleyes:

RVD
Oct 8th, 2004, 12:49 AM
So many great posts...so little space to respond. :lol:

outside of his breath-taking skills as a golfer, i get the impression that Tiger is rather dull, introverted, and shallow. he almost doesn't ave a personality. i can't imagine any intelligent Black woman finding him even remotely interesting. i also don't find him at all attractive. the nanny is perfectly entitled to have him i say. the better question is how long she will stick around and how much of his money will he have to part with if she leaves.

also, i had no idea that he and Serena and Venus were friends. i remember a Venus interview several years ago when she claimed to have no idea who he was! does anyone else remember this?

has Tiger ever been on Oprah? are these "friendships" or invitees for show? :confused:Couldn't agree with this post more. I give them a minimum of 24 months. Then she'll have his child and money, and be laughing all the way to the bank.

Anyway, I'm loving the honesty and flow of this thread. And for the record, my mother is Cherokee Indian, Ethiopian, and West African. My father is West African, Japanese, and German. So I guess that makes me ... ?

Yep, Black (in the US). :lol:
(And probably the most interracially mixed person here). ;)

But as far as what I have my kids mark on these ridiculous school forms...
I just have them do what I do, and put down 'Other:' and write in 'Human'.

Fact is, no matter what people may say, there is only ONE race, and that's the 'human' race. The only ones who have a problem with this are those who attempt to distance themselves from everyone else in order to feel superior. Wonder who they are? ;)

Anyway...a great read folks. :yeah: I'm outtie.

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 01:04 AM
Are you honestly trying to tell me that if Tiger Woods had showed up for the Jackie Robinson anniversary just to pose for pictures with the President and Robinson's family and then fled asap, you'd have been happy with that? Please. You obviously have something against Tiger Woods and you'd find fault with anything that he does. You'd have said that his going to the anniversary was just for show and that he didn't really care. And don't even bother telling me that omg, now I can read your mind because that is SO predictable. All I'm saying is that based on your attitude towards Tiger, that's the kind of reaction I think you would have had. And don't tell me either that all this hostility towards Tiger is because he didn't go to the Jackie Robinson anniversary :rolleyes:

Frankly, I would not have cared if he left because I was more concerned about the Robinson family than anyone else and that includes the President, who probably had other plans too, but he at least showed up.:rolleyes:

I think I stated my problem with Tiger and don't have to repeat what I said.

SelesFan70
Oct 8th, 2004, 01:15 AM
All I know is that Venus and Serena claim to be Jehova's Witnesses and they LOVE to date and marry interracially, so that's why I'm never surprised when I see Venus or Serena with the blue-eyed devil. :lol: :rolleyes: ;)

CC
Oct 8th, 2004, 01:22 AM
I thought there might be some pics. Too bad.

mykarma
Oct 8th, 2004, 01:27 AM
:lol: :tape: :lol: :tape: :lol:

I notice that they said Britney Spears, but not her new "husband"

That would also explain why Serena dropped out of Fielderstadt and Venus didn't bother entering in her place. I am suprised that either would be at Tiger's wedding; I thought Earl Woods couldn't stand Richard Williams, considering some of the things he said about Richard in the past.Hey Liz, it was Tiger's wedding not Earl's.

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 01:46 AM
Hey Liz, it was Tiger's wedding not Earl's.

That's true, but he has an iron fist on his son's life moreso than Richard has on Venus' and Serena's.

tennnisfannn
Oct 8th, 2004, 01:58 AM
Come on let's be honest do you actually really, really believe that woods would married a black nanny...let's be for real and talk about the bear facts I will say it again wood would not married a black nanny...just plain and simple.So a rich successful black man can only marry down. Did Boris Becker marry up or down when he married a black woman? Oprah is living with a man way below her economic means but is isn't an issue coz they are both black.
Prince Albert IV and Henry VIII both married outside of royalty, losing the crown in the process, i think.
People do marry either up, down or across, regardless of colour but why do people have to make an issue of it when it is black versus white esp. if the down bit happens to be white.
poor tiger, it must be tough to be him, everyone has an opinion on how he ought to live.

Dawn Marie
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Harloo, I know that you were not attacking me personally.:):) I just felt the need to elaborate my feelings and opinions on the discussion.

dreamgoddess099
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:54 AM
Hey I hear Serena was a bridesmaid. Here's a pic of her being measured for her dress.

:devil:

Bitter Blue Bong
Oct 8th, 2004, 06:32 AM
A MAN married A WOMAN. That's it, doesn't matter if she's white or yellow with pink polka dots all over and 3 tits... bottom line, they love each other and it's there BUSINESS!!!

That pretty much sums it up.

DA FOREHAND
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:09 PM
"So a rich successful black man can only marry down"

Are you implying that tiger marrying that blonde nanny was not marrying down?

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:13 PM
If he was not Tiger Woods, that chick would not give him the time of day...I am sure that she is counting the days till she has enough "equity" in the relationship and then she can bail and never have to work again...:tape:

SJW
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:33 PM
G-Ha, whose talking about distance relatives? Also, give your definition of black and what it means in America? Is it a complexion with some African blood? a Kid born of two mixed parents but comes out looking like me is he black or is mixed, mind his genetics are no different than a kid of a "black" and "white" parent. Are people going to carry cards around with them saying, "Don't follow me I'm only half-black?".. Halle calls herself black because no matter how light she is or who her mother is unless she can pass she will get the same treatment as the next black person. Unlike Tiger, Halle wasn't negative about one aspect of her being. She may call herself a black woman but she doesn't shun white people...or being mixed to her it is just a part of being a "black woman" You can try to act like white people in this country has had the intermixing in their ancestry as the black population but that would be a complete fallacy....The master impregnanted so many black women during slave times it's not even funny and that fun didn't end with slavery either....many maids were raped as fun by their employers with no reprecussions....so spare the :bs: about whites having just as much mixing in their heritage. It is only a recent phenomena where mixed race children have the option to even think about what they are who they want to be..Doesn't matter unless they are rich or can pass society will treat them just the same. Quite Frankly, if it wasn't for all those "black" people standing up for the right to be "black", Tiger's trifling ass couldn't chase all the blonde blue-eyed snatch that he does without hanging from a tree. Those people who fought for the right to be "black" in this country included many many many mixed children....to say calling yourself "black" is wrong if your mixed is a slap in the face to all those mixed people who had to fight for the right just to be "black" but that's just my opinion.

damn. she made the rest of you guys look stupid.

go Rocke, it's ya birfday :dance:

nander
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Relax people, according to the definitions by which you live, their children will be 'black'.
I have never understood why people should define themselves by what racist whites decreed... i.e. if you have one 'drop of black blood' you are black. In any case it is all about DNA and we now know that there are very few clear distinctions to be made between animals and humans much less between different groups of peoples.

tennnisfannn
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:42 PM
"So a rich successful black man can only marry down"

Are you implying that tiger marrying that blonde nanny was not marrying down?Of course Tiger marrying a nanny is marrying 'down' but people are more than just the jobs they do. I wonder what people's response would be if he had married either Venus, Ai or Capriati. Race wise, Tiger has a part of each of those players' race in him. Career wise they are all successful and millionaires many times over. Would that be deemed an 'equal' marriage?
If James Blake married Dementieva, would that seem more acceptable, what if he married Anna K's white cleaning lady, would that be a reflection on who he is. Why choose to see Tiger as 'looking down' on his black heritage rather than a guy who isn't a snob and doesn't care about his partner's 'station' in life.
Generally men marry down anyway, women seem to marry up. Women do care what their husbands do, men care what their wives look like and beauty will win over careers for men.

Martian Willow
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:52 PM
All the points I made were so good nobody could answer them. I'm the clevererest person on the forum. :nerner:

SJW
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:54 PM
something to think about:

i have two friends who i thought were Asian (one looked Chinese, one looked Thai). i have only just found that they are both half white. does that immediately cross your mind when you look at them? no. they both have very Asian features. Tiger looks black and if he couldnt swing a club then that's what he would be to the rest of America. that's what he would be if he was on a bus back in the day. that's what he would be if his ass wanted to drink from a water fountain. the only time his ass wouldn't be black is if he was on the dance floor, then one of his other races can have him.

it's fine he wants to be recognized for other parts of his heritage. but the fact he doesn't really want to acknowledge the part that dominates his features is geigh to the max. white people wouldn't necessarily say "dude is Cablinasian!" if they saw him on the street, or in their stores, no ma.

if he doesn't wanna be black, that's cool. i dont like him cuz he's an arrogant prick and cuz he plays an old man's sport.

i dont have a problem with mix race marriages, my brother is about to be a victim of one (just kidding). i have a problem with money chasing tricks (of any colour) and pompous ****s (of any colour). the problem many black people have with Tiger is simple: he's there acting like his shit don't stink, but as soon as he gets his Cablinasian ass in trouble, black people are the one's he's gonna want to know. just wait.

it's just about acknowledging the fact he has got black blood. cuz it seems like that's the part he's running away from in all honesty. it's not about the fact he's a product of inter-racial marriage. so don't act like that's what it is :rolleyes: black people don't need him to act like he's black. there's a lot of people from other races doing just that :cool:

tennnisfannn
Oct 8th, 2004, 02:57 PM
All the points I made were so good nobody could answer them. I'm the clevererest person on the forum. :nerner:Probably got lost in translation.:devil:

DA FOREHAND
Oct 8th, 2004, 03:02 PM
Of course Tiger marrying a nanny is marrying 'down' but people are more than just the jobs they do. I wonder what people's response would be if he had married either Venus, Ai or Capriati. Race wise, Tiger has a part of each of those players' race in him. Career wise they are all successful and millionaires many times over. Would that be deemed an 'equal' marriage?
If James Blake married Dementieva, would that seem more acceptable, what if he married Anna K's white cleaning lady, would that be a reflection on who he is. Why choose to see Tiger as 'looking down' on his black heritage rather than a guy who isn't a snob and doesn't care about his partner's 'station' in life.
Generally men marry down anyway, women seem to marry up. Women do care what their husbands do, men care what their wives look like and beauty will win over careers for men.


From what i've read in this thread those opposed to tiger and his choice of mate, are using the fact that he married a white woman (gasp) as further proof of his denying his blkness

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 8th, 2004, 03:03 PM
something to think about:

i have two friends who i thought were Asian (one looked Chinese, one looked Thai). i have only just found that they are both half white. does that immediately cross your mind when you look at them? no. they both have very Asian features. Tiger looks black and if he couldnt swing a club then that's what he would be to the rest of America. that's what he would be if he was on a bus back in the day. that's what he would be if his ass wanted to drink from a water fountain. the only time his ass wouldn't be black is if he was on the dance floor, then one of his other races can have him.

it's fine he wants to be recognized for other parts of his heritage. but the fact he doesn't really want to acknowledge the part that dominates his features is geigh to the max. white people wouldn't necessarily say "dude is Cablinasian!" if they saw him on the street, no ma.

if he doesn't wanna be black, that's cool. i dont like him cuz he's an arrogant prick and cuz he plays an old man's sport.

i dont have a problem with mix race marriages, my brother is about to be a victim of one (just kidding). i have a problem with money chasing tricks (of any colour) and pompous ****s (of any colour). the problem many black people have with Tiger is simple: he's there acting like his shit don't stink, but as soon as he gets his Cablinasian ass in trouble, black people are the one's he's gonna want to know. just wait.

it's just about acknowledging the fact he has got black blood. cuz it seems like that's the part he's running away from in all honesty. it's not about the fact he's a product of inter-racial marriage. so don't act like that's what it is :rolleyes: black people don't need him to act like he's black. there's a lot of people from other races doing just that :cool:
This is why I love you babe...Holla!!!!

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 03:32 PM
It also doesn't get anything accomplished by telling people they are irrational because they hold an opinion that you don't agree with. If I don't agree with someone, I don't waste my time saying those things; I just give my opinion on the subject at hand.

Who called you "irrational"?

Don't put words into my mouth
if you please.

I simply stated my opinion and told you
what I felt and that you get no where trying
to educate anyone on anything when you attack them.

It has been you and others who started it all by saying
these nasty things "wating your time" about someone
you don't know simply based on a issue you obviously have problems
with and then have the audasity to say this to me! Please! :rolleyes:

This conversation is quite obviously going no where.

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 03:48 PM
No babe, I think it's you who needs to pull it down a notch.

No, it's you.
This thread has been turned into something
from from it's intention when it was started because
certain people have to chime in with snide remarks and insinuations
about what he does and does not feel! Point blank!


No, but you defend him like you're his mama. Give him the benefit of the doubt of what? That he really cares about his black heritage and he doesn't have disdain for it or shun it? :lol: Give me a freaking break. "We" are those who are in agreement on this issue. Nothing to do with, God forbid, being black, white, bi-racial or tri-racial.

Benefit of the doubt that he isn't some kind of "villan"
(for lack of a better word) that you and others make
him out to be.


No, by his own actions or shall I say inactions and his own words that I hear coming out of his own mouth.

And who are you?

So, because a person doesn't go around constantly parading and professing public this and that in some vain attemtp to prove something to the likes of you something is some how wrong with him? Dear lord.


:rolleyes: I'm sure bi-racial people have it much harder than people who consider themselves black in the US. :lol: You must be out of your mind. What makes him so much more special than Venus and Serena or any other famous black person who have to defend and explain themselves everyday? Because he's bi-racial he should be exempt?? :lol:

Don't even!
It's one thing to have to defend your everday actions as the pertain to
whatever sports/professional public medium you are in but, quite another
to have to defend or try to defend who you are on a number of different racial fronts!

Did anyone say he should be exempt from scrutiny, No!

However, it's far different when you're being attacked
on one topic from a number of different groups.


He doesn't have to justify who he is, he has to justify his actions, inactions and words regarding his black heritage. He's the one who got defensive about being black from the beginning.

Who says he has to justify sanything to you
or anyone else for that matter?

He got defensive because he was put on
the offensive by people like you!


In what post of mine did I insult, tear down or make nasty comments about Tiger Woods?

When you have the audasity to put someone down saying they
dislike who they are or apart of who they are simply from the snipets
you read in the media, their is an issue to be taken.



First of all, I don't believe I made any insulting remarks about Tiger. Secondly, I feel the same about all that you've been saying. Same old bs, different day.

Atleast I've tried to make an effort to
try and see things from different viewpoints
which is more than I can say for some.

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Thanks to whom ever it was that
moved this thread as when I began it
it was just to tell people V&S were there.

Sorry if it caused any inconvience.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 8th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Thanks to whom ever it was that
moved this thread as when I began it
it was just to tell people V&S were there.

Sorry if it caused any inconvience.
I love it when we fight...I look forward to the makeup...:kiss:

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:01 PM
I love it when we fight...I look forward to the makeup...:kiss:

That's because you know I could
never stay angry with you! :devil:

:kiss:

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:03 PM
That's because you know I could
never stay angry with you! :devil:

:kiss:
Sure makes for a steamy makeup...:drool:

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Who called you "irrational"?

Don't put words into my mouth
if you please.

I simply stated my opinion and told you
what I felt and that you get no where trying
to educate anyone on anything when you attack them.

It has been you and others who started it all by saying
these nasty things "wating your time" about someone
you don't know simply based on a issue you obviously have problems
with and then have the audasity to say this to me! Please! :rolleyes:

This conversation is quite obviously going no where.

It wasn't you, I wasn't blaming you and I wasn't trying to start a fight with you in the first place. It was someone whose screen name starts with an E.

This all started not with me, but with venusfan who made a comment about Tiger's new wife adn I concurred with what she said. If people don't it, that's too bad because this is a message board and that what it is all about; debating and offering different opinions without getting too nasty.

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:42 PM
something to think about:

i have two friends who i thought were Asian (one looked Chinese, one looked Thai). i have only just found that they are both half white. does that immediately cross your mind when you look at them? no. they both have very Asian features. Tiger looks black and if he couldnt swing a club then that's what he would be to the rest of America. that's what he would be if he was on a bus back in the day. that's what he would be if his ass wanted to drink from a water fountain. the only time his ass wouldn't be black is if he was on the dance floor, then one of his other races can have him.

it's fine he wants to be recognized for other parts of his heritage. but the fact he doesn't really want to acknowledge the part that dominates his features is geigh to the max. white people wouldn't necessarily say "dude is Cablinasian!" if they saw him on the street, or in their stores, no ma.

if he doesn't wanna be black, that's cool. i dont like him cuz he's an arrogant prick and cuz he plays an old man's sport.

i dont have a problem with mix race marriages, my brother is about to be a victim of one (just kidding). i have a problem with money chasing tricks (of any colour) and pompous ****s (of any colour). the problem many black people have with Tiger is simple: he's there acting like his shit don't stink, but as soon as he gets his Cablinasian ass in trouble, black people are the one's he's gonna want to know. just wait.

it's just about acknowledging the fact he has got black blood. cuz it seems like that's the part he's running away from in all honesty. it's not about the fact he's a product of inter-racial marriage. so don't act like that's what it is :rolleyes: black people don't need him to act like he's black. there's a lot of people from other races doing just that :cool:

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

That is the point most of us (including myself) were trying to make. I never said anything nasty about his wife and hopefully, he will have a long and sucessful marriage.

BTW, he reminds me of Kobe Bryant.

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:46 PM
It wasn't you, I wasn't blaming you and I wasn't trying to start a fight with you in the first place. It was someone whose screen name starts with an E.


My bad. :)

I'm just tired of fighting
for the time being.

BTW,
Cam, clear your inbox.

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:49 PM
My bad. :)

I'm just tired of fighting
for the time being.

BTW,
Cam, clear your inbox.

No problem.

I am tired of fighting too, considering I sprained my ankle on Wednesday night (I was home yesterday and will leave work early today) and am concerned that Venus will not play Moscow like I hoped she would.

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:52 PM
No problem.

I am tired of fighting too, considering I sprained my ankle on Wednesday night (I was home yesterday and will leave work early today) and am concerned that Venus will not play Moscow like I hoped she would.

Sorry to hear about you ankle. :sad:

Why are you concerned Venus won't be in Moscow?
I think if she were pulling out we'd have heard by now with
maindraw competition starting on monday and the possibilty
she will be playing on monday as she won't have a bye.

SJW
Oct 8th, 2004, 04:55 PM
This is why I love you babe...Holla!!!!

where's my package? :kiss:

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Sorry to hear about you ankle. :sad:

Why are you concerned Venus won't be in Moscow?
I think if she were pulling out we'd have heard by now with
maindraw competition starting on monday and the possibilty
she will be playing on monday as she won't have a bye.
Thank you regarding the ankle.:)


I don't know; I just have that feeling she won't be there, but I hope I am wrong. Plus in the KC forum, someone said that someone was moved into the main draw and that can only mean someone withdrew.

Paneru
Oct 8th, 2004, 05:04 PM
I don't know; I just have that feeling she won't be there, but I hope I am wrong. Plus in the KC forum, someone said that someone was moved into the main draw and that can only mean someone withdrew.

Oh.
I'm guessing it's just Kim because
of the injury.

lizchris
Oct 8th, 2004, 05:15 PM
Oh.
I'm guessing it's just Kim because
of the injury.

You know what? You are right! I totally forgot that Kim entered Moscow and withdrew. Thanks for reminding me.

Cam'ron Giles
Oct 8th, 2004, 06:45 PM
where's my package? :kiss:
I swear I have it but I keep forgeting to take it with me to work and mail it...:o

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 06:58 PM
Prince Albert IV and Henry VIII both married outside of royalty, losing the crown in the process, i think.

:confused: Neither lost the crown.

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 07:27 PM
No, it's you.
This thread has been turned into something
from from it's intention when it was started because
certain people have to chime in with snide remarks and insinuations
about what he does and does not feel! Point blank!



Benefit of the doubt that he isn't some kind of "villan"
(for lack of a better word) that you and others make
him out to be.



And who are you?

So, because a person doesn't go around constantly parading and professing public this and that in some vain attemtp to prove something to the likes of you something is some how wrong with him? Dear lord.



Don't even!
It's one thing to have to defend your everday actions as the pertain to
whatever sports/professional public medium you are in but, quite another
to have to defend or try to defend who you are on a number of different racial fronts!

Did anyone say he should be exempt from scrutiny, No!

However, it's far different when you're being attacked
on one topic from a number of different groups.



Who says he has to justify sanything to you
or anyone else for that matter?

He got defensive because he was put on
the offensive by people like you!



When you have the audasity to put someone down saying they
dislike who they are or apart of who they are simply from the snipets
you read in the media, their is an issue to be taken.




Atleast I've tried to make an effort to
try and see things from different viewpoints
which is more than I can say for some.
Kabuke, you truly need some medication. You've lost it. As I said before, I've never said anything insulting about Tiger. I can have an opinion of him without having to defend it or justify it. He's a public figure, which makes him an object of fascination and/or ridicule. He's a role model, whether he likes it or wants to be or not. He has a moral obligation as a public figure, as do all public figures, to justify their actions, inactions, what they say and what they do. If he wants to live a private life, he needs to stop playing professional golf, spending so much money that it attracts the media and go into seclusion. No one said he was a villian or the enemy. I just think he needs to grow up and recognize. Otherwise, I'm a fan of his. I'm proud of his accomplishments as a black man in a sport that has very few of our kind. I'm proud of him as a black man whether he wants to acknowledge and celebrate that part of him or not. I celebrate it.

Who am I? I'm a fan, a human being, a sister who has a right to her own opinion about anybody. Tiger was never put on the offensive. He was asked about being the first black to wear that green jacket at Augusta and instead of celebrating that part of his heritage, he became defensive about it. Since that time, he's celebrated his Asian heritage. All we are saying is, be proud of who you are. No one is saying he has to be black to the exclusion of the other parts of him. Just don't purposely ignore and exclude the most prominent part of you, while celebrating the other two.

Kabuke, you are blinded by your own demons that you've had to deal with regarding your bi-raciality to the point of not being able to see what anyone else is saying with clarity. All you see and hear is that a bi-racial person is being unfairly attacked because that person isn't saying and doing what people want him to say and do. You fail to see that Tiger has celebrated and exalted the Asian and white part of him to the total exclusion of his black side. Most black people are offended by that. I personally feel that he does that because he hates that part of him, but that's just me. This is not because of snipets in the newspaper or whatever you said, but because of what he has said, done and/or not done. I don't know how much more plain I can make it to you.

Stamp Paid
Oct 8th, 2004, 07:53 PM
Kabuke, you truly need some medication. You've lost it. As I said before, I've never said anything insulting about Tiger. I can have an opinion of him without having to defend it or justify it. He's a public figure, which makes him an object of fascination and/or ridicule. He's a role model, whether he likes it or wants to be or not. He has a moral obligation as a public figure, as do all public figures, to justify their actions, inactions, what they say and what they do. If he wants to live a private life, he needs to stop playing professional golf, spending so much money that it attracts the media and go into seclusion. No one said he was a villian or the enemy. I just think he needs to grow up and recognize. Otherwise, I'm a fan of his. I'm proud of his accomplishments as a black man in a sport that has very few of our kind. I'm proud of him as a black man whether he wants to acknowledge and celebrate that part of him or not. I celebrate it.

Who am I? I'm a fan, a human being, a sister who has a right to her own opinion about anybody. Tiger was never put on the offensive. He was asked about being the first black to wear that green jacket at Augusta and instead of celebrating that part of his heritage, he became defensive about it. Since that time, he's celebrated his Asian heritage. All we are saying is, be proud of who you are. No one is saying he has to be black to the exclusion of the other parts of him. Just don't purposely ignore and exclude the most prominent part of you, while celebrating the other two.

Kabuke, you are blinded by your own demons that you've had to deal with regarding your bi-raciality to the point of not being able to see what anyone else is saying with clarity. All you see and hear is that a bi-racial person is being unfairly attacked because that person isn't saying and doing what people want him to say and do. You fail to see that Tiger has celebrated and exalted the Asian and white part of him to the total exclusion of his black side. Most black people are offended by that. I personally feel that he does that because he hates that part of him, but that's just me. This is not because of snipets in the newspaper or whatever you said, but because of what he has said, done and/or not done. I don't know how much more plain I can make it to you.
vBulletin Message You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DeDe4925 again.

Dammit http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/firey.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/firey.gif

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 08:04 PM
vBulletin Message You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DeDe4925 again.

Dammit http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/firey.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/firey.gif
:lol: That's okay, boo. This post is good enough. ;) :kiss:

SJW
Oct 8th, 2004, 08:10 PM
Kabuke, you truly need some medication. You've lost it. As I said before, I've never said anything insulting about Tiger. I can have an opinion of him without having to defend it or justify it. He's a public figure, which makes him an object of fascination and/or ridicule. He's a role model, whether he likes it or wants to be or not. He has a moral obligation as a public figure, as do all public figures, to justify their actions, inactions, what they say and what they do. If he wants to live a private life, he needs to stop playing professional golf, spending so much money that it attracts the media and go into seclusion. No one said he was a villian or the enemy. I just think he needs to grow up and recognize. Otherwise, I'm a fan of his. I'm proud of his accomplishments as a black man in a sport that has very few of our kind. I'm proud of him as a black man whether he wants to acknowledge and celebrate that part of him or not. I celebrate it.

Who am I? I'm a fan, a human being, a sister who has a right to her own opinion about anybody. Tiger was never put on the offensive. He was asked about being the first black to wear that green jacket at Augusta and instead of celebrating that part of his heritage, he became defensive about it. Since that time, he's celebrated his Asian heritage. All we are saying is, be proud of who you are. No one is saying he has to be black to the exclusion of the other parts of him. Just don't purposely ignore and exclude the most prominent part of you, while celebrating the other two.

Kabuke, you are blinded by your own demons that you've had to deal with regarding your bi-raciality to the point of not being able to see what anyone else is saying with clarity. All you see and hear is that a bi-racial person is being unfairly attacked because that person isn't saying and doing what people want him to say and do. You fail to see that Tiger has celebrated and exalted the Asian and white part of him to the total exclusion of his black side. Most black people are offended by that. I personally feel that he does that because he hates that part of him, but that's just me. This is not because of snipets in the newspaper or whatever you said, but because of what he has said, done and/or not done. I don't know how much more plain I can make it to you.

:worship:

Amorc
Oct 8th, 2004, 08:18 PM
Fairly interesting article (although quite old) for those that can be bothered to read so much.
Make of it what you will:


it was one of those peculiar, almost farcical moments that occasionally arise in the turgid melodrama of American racial politics. After Tiger Woods won the Masters Tournament, the media went into a veritable orgy of racial sentimentality. The 21-year-old golf phenom was touted as the Great Black Hope, the putter-wielding equivalent of Martin Luther King Jr. Pundits waxed poetic about the cosmic social significance of Woods' feat, and those treacly "I am Tiger Woods" ads seemed to gain complete control of the airwaves. Coinciding with the 50th anniversary celebrations of Jackie Robinson's breaking of baseball's color line -- an event of unimaginably greater significance -- Woods' coronation as the Black Prince of the Country Club gave America a chance to engage in its favorite ritual, the recitation of warm (if not Fuzzy) racial platitudes. While blacks celebrated the triumph of one of their own in a lily-white sport, whites wiped away tears and congratulated themselves on their remarkable progress. The choreographed racial minuet was proceeding as smoothly as a 30-second Nike spot.

And then Tiger Woods said he wasn't actually "black" at all -- he was "Cablinasian."

Woods made his remarks on "Oprah," when he was asked if it bothered him to be called an African-American. "It does," he said. "Growing up, I came up with this name: I'm a 'Cablinasian.'" As in Caucasian-black-Indian-Asian. Woods has a black father (or to be precise, if I am interpreting Woods' reported ancestry correctly, a half-black, one-quarter American Indian, one-quarter white father) and a Thai mother (or, with the same caveat, a half-Thai, half-Chinese mother). "I'm just who I am," Woods told Oprah Winfrey, "whoever you see in front of you."

But just "who I am" remained contested ground. According to Time magazine, Woods' coming out as a Cablinasian caused "a mini-racial firestorm ... Woods' remarks infuriated many African Americans who ... see him as a traitor ... Some blacks saw Woods' assertion of a multiracial identity as a sellout that could touch off an epidemic of 'passing.'" Light-skinned Colin Powell, responding to Woods' comments, "In America, which I love from the depths of my heart and soul, when you look like me, you're black."

Adding fuel to the fire stirred up by Woods' comments are their political implications. Congress is considering adding a multiracial category to the 2000 census, and supporters of the controversial new category immediately seized upon Woods' statement as evidence that the old categories -- black, white, Asian and Pacific Islander, native American and "other" -- are inadequate. Civil rights groups like the NAACP, who are bitterly opposed to adding the multiracial category because they fear it will lead to a loss of black political and economic clout, are not likely to enjoy the spectacle of Woods becoming a poster child for multiracialism.

I'm not putting forward Tiger Woods as a role model, racial or otherwise. I don't know anything about him, except that he seems to respect both of his parents, is an athletic prodigy who is a masterful self-marketer, and is given to telling dumb black-men-have-big-dicks jokes in slick men's magazines. But whoever Woods may be, his refusal to be pigeonholed into a single racial category points the way out of the dualistic rigidity and emotional hysteria that has led America into a racial impasse. By choosing to embrace all of who he is -- an entity for which there is no name, except one that sounds like a tribe from the imaginary country of Narnia -- Woods, the goofy 21-year-old with the golden-brown skin and the beautiful swing, has become a messenger for a larger truth: Our race does not make us who we are.

In our hearts, we all know this. It is a truth written in American blood by Martin Luther King Jr. and enunciated by every great world religious tradition. But it is a truth that only whites have traditionally been allowed to enjoy. The bitter legacy of white racism in America denied blacks the freedom to define themselves independently of their color. Because whites saw blacks as being black before they saw them as being human beings, blacks were forced to embrace what should have been an irrelevancy, forced to erect a protective ideology upon the accident of their skin color.

That reaction was inevitable. Negritude, Afrocentrism, Black Pride and other manifestations of identity politics are all understandable ideologies, but they are -- or should be -- provisional. Like booster rockets, they should fall away once they have carried their passengers out of the heavy atmosphere in which white judgment debilitates.

To understand the shortcomings of Black Pride, one need only look at its mirror version, White Pride. Whites who are obsessed with their racial identity are either pathological Aryan Nation outsiders lurking around in the woods, or confused camp-followers of multiculturalism, seeking to find specious Caucasian "roots" just as they enviously imagine people of color have found theirs. In either case, their racialist ideology is an attempt to fill a void that cannot and should not be filled -- because that void is the space of human freedom. Exactly to the degree that race comes to constitute one's identity, one is unfree. White Pride followers are like 12-step zombies who, despairing of living with the anxiety that accompanies freedom, have handed their identities over to a Higher Caucasian Power. And their black counterparts trap themselves in a similar cul-de-sac.

Defenders of black racialism respond that one cannot compare black racial affirmation with its white counterpart, since one group is powerless and one is powerful. (The extreme version of this argument is that blacks cannot be racists.) But this response locks blacks in a permanently reactive stance, enshrining victimhood as their defining characteristic. In an act of world-class paternalism, Rep. Maxine Waters commented that advocates of a mixed-race category "want to be seen for all they are, but I don't think they're making the connection about how it could affect how they're represented, or who's being an advocate for them when they get mistreated." It apparently didn't occur to her that these not-so-tragic-mulattoes might have different opinions about the dangers of "mistreatment."

The case of Woods reveals the central stupidity of American racial politics: the discrepancy between the rigid way we talk about race and the fluid realities of who we increasingly are. Part of the changed reality is the rising number of mixed-race people like Woods, who demand and deserve their own census classification. But part of it is also found within Americans of all races.

Despite the persistence of bigotry, I believe that white Americans are far more racially enlightened than ever before. Yes, there are differences between the races -- differences of class, culture, upbringing, history. But the polite, orthodox approach to black-white relations, enshrined in "diversity training" exaggerates those differences and makes genuine communication all but impossible. Whites have grown enormously weary of the formal, repetitive, go-nowhere black-white two-step. They desperately want a signal from blacks that they, too, have had it with trying to communicate through six panes of multicultural glass.

So where does Tiger Woods fit into all this? First of all, it's important to point out that Woods did not repudiate blacks or blackness. He paid tribute to the black golfers who came before him, and he embraced his black father. What he repudiated was one of America's founding and most traumatic racial myths -- the one-drop rule, according to which anyone possessing even a trace of black blood was -- and to some degree, still is -- considered black.

I am not calling for blacks, or any other group, to recant their pride in who they are. Nor am I suggesting that those who identify as black, whatever their ancestry (most American blacks are of mixed race) should follow Woods' example. The worst thing that could happen would be if mixed-race people entered into the racial spoils system, competing for victim status with other minorities. The point is not that people should flee from who they are, but that, as far as possible, they should be allowed to create who they are. Everyone should be allowed to choose the word -- or, as in Woods' case, make up the word -- that describes them. And more profoundly, everyone should be allowed to create an identity based not on race, but on their attributes as a human being.

When my Japanese-American father was sent to a barren Colorado internment camp during World War II, anyone who was 1/8 Japanese was considered racially worthy of an all-expense-paid trip to the barbed wire. But things moved on. During my entire half-Japanese, half-white life, I can recall exactly one racist comment, from some cretinous stagehand who is probably now moving his lips over a Soldier of Fortune magazine in an amphetamine-filled trailer. As a Scottapanese, I just felt benignly "different" -- and I enjoyed that difference as a badge of honor that didn't cut me off from others. Blessed by having no defining racial identity, I was allowed to construct who I was out of actual experiences, rather than from blocky, artificial boxes like "race." Am I white? Am I Asian? Who cares?

It would be naive to assume that my experience is universal. As journalist Lise Funderburg documents in "Black, White, Other: Biracial Americans Talk About Race and Identity" (Morrow, 1994), many half-black people -- particularly if they aren't lucky enough to grow up in enlightened middle-class enclaves like Berkeley -- face a more problematic self-classification. In America's subtle, shifting racial landscape, blackness is still the great fixed point, essential, unalterable. Whites, Hispanics and Asians can -- in part depending on their class -- define themselves, make up their own identities independent of race. It's much harder for blacks to do that -- partly because whites won't let them, but also because, as many of Funderburg's subjects relate, other blacks won't let them. "And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,/When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,/Then how should I begin/To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?" T.S. Eliot's words eloquently capture the inner paralysis that attends external judgment.

And yet the mixed-race men and women Funderburg interviews are not, in the end, paralyzed. In awkward, uneven, but also triumphant ways, these pure products of America navigate the tricky river that runs through our land and our hearts. They -- we -- have learned to live and thrive within the difference, the racial divide, that so needlessly frightens America. Like them, America has a white parent and a black parent, and an Asian one and a Hispanic one too. It's time for Mother's Day.

Martian Willow
Oct 8th, 2004, 08:44 PM
Kabuke, you truly need some medication. You've lost it. As I said before, I've never said anything insulting about Tiger. I can have an opinion of him without having to defend it or justify it. He's a public figure, which makes him an object of fascination and/or ridicule. He's a role model, whether he likes it or wants to be or not. He has a moral obligation as a public figure, as do all public figures, to justify their actions, inactions, what they say and what they do. If he wants to live a private life, he needs to stop playing professional golf, spending so much money that it attracts the media and go into seclusion. No one said he was a villian or the enemy. I just think he needs to grow up and recognize. Otherwise, I'm a fan of his. I'm proud of his accomplishments as a black man in a sport that has very few of our kind. I'm proud of him as a black man whether he wants to acknowledge and celebrate that part of him or not. I celebrate it.

Who am I? I'm a fan, a human being, a sister who has a right to her own opinion about anybody. Tiger was never put on the offensive. He was asked about being the first black to wear that green jacket at Augusta and instead of celebrating that part of his heritage, he became defensive about it. Since that time, he's celebrated his Asian heritage. All we are saying is, be proud of who you are. No one is saying he has to be black to the exclusion of the other parts of him. Just don't purposely ignore and exclude the most prominent part of you, while celebrating the other two.

Kabuke, you are blinded by your own demons that you've had to deal with regarding your bi-raciality to the point of not being able to see what anyone else is saying with clarity. All you see and hear is that a bi-racial person is being unfairly attacked because that person isn't saying and doing what people want him to say and do. You fail to see that Tiger has celebrated and exalted the Asian and white part of him to the total exclusion of his black side. Most black people are offended by that. I personally feel that he does that because he hates that part of him, but that's just me. This is not because of snipets in the newspaper or whatever you said, but because of what he has said, done and/or not done. I don't know how much more plain I can make it to you.

Hhmmm.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=3036453&postcount=37

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=3036565&postcount=44

:)

SJW
Oct 8th, 2004, 08:49 PM
Hhmmm.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=3036453&postcount=37

http://www.wtaworld.com/showpost.php?p=3036565&postcount=44

:)

no offence, but

1) do you respond to the post or poster?
2) do you remember every post a person has made?
3) do you have nothing better to do than searching posts that conflict?

you're right, she's contradicted herself, but damn, not even i'm that bored :confused:

Martian Willow
Oct 8th, 2004, 08:56 PM
no offence, but

1) do you respond to the post or poster?
2) do you remember every post a person has made?
3) do you have nothing better to do than searching posts that conflict?

you're right, she's contradicted herself, but damn, not even i'm that bored :confused:

It took no more than five minutes to find the thread, which is not much longer than it would have taken me to respond any other way, I believe the point is valid, and, as it happens, I didn't know she'd actually posted in that thread. It was the discussion it contained that was relevant.

I'm not offended. I'm going out now. Toodles. :hatoff:

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 09:32 PM
no offence, but

1) do you respond to the post or poster?
2) do you remember every post a person has made?
3) do you have nothing better to do than searching posts that conflict?

you're right, she's contradicted herself, but damn, not even i'm that bored :confused:
SJW, to answer your question, Willow obviously has nothing better to do. It seems that his hard work has paid off :lol: and it looks on the surface as if I did contradict myself. However, I was speaking in a different context regarding Serena and her endorsement of Nike and McDonalds. The endorsement of products and the choices made by the public as a result thereof is wholly different from being one the best golfers to ever live, looking like a black man, having a black father, totally rejecting the race and the effect that has on little boys and girls of all races.

I don't think it's a public figure's duty to be socially responsible for the world, because in the end we have to make our own decisions regarding the use of products. However, I do think that as a public figure you have a moral obligation to be responsible for your own actions and how you represent yourself to the public, especially the children. :rolleyes:

Amorc
Oct 8th, 2004, 09:44 PM
no offence, but

1) do you respond to the post or poster?
2) do you remember every post a person has made?
3) do you have nothing better to do than searching posts that conflict?

you're right, she's contradicted herself, but damn, not even i'm that bored :confused:

It is quite amusing how quickly people can change their opinions though. Not just in this case, but most people will change their attitude or view of a situation depending solely on whether or not they like the person involved. In this case whatever the situation was, Serena or Venus would not be able to do anything wrong and Tiger would not be able to do anything right. Just like according to some Tiger marrying a white woman is all because he wants shun and distance himself from the black community as much as possible, but if Serena or Venus were to marry their boyfriends the same people would congratulate them for being broad-minded and sing their praises for not letting society dictate how they should live their lifes. The same in that Capriati situation with the line call, some view Capriati as cheat but if the roles had been reversed the same people would say that its not up to Serena to call the lines and that she did nothing wrong.

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 09:54 PM
It is quite amusing how quickly people can change their opinions though. Not just in this case, but most people will change their attitude or view of a situation depending solely on whether or not they like the person involved. In this case whatever the situation was, Serena or Venus would not be able to do anything wrong and Tiger would not be able to do anything right. Just like according to some Tiger marrying a white woman is all because he wants shun and distance himself from the black community as much as possible, but if Serena or Venus were to marry their boyfriends the same people would congratulate them for being broad-minded and sing their praises for not letting society dictate how they should live their lifes. The same in that Capriati situation with the line call, some view Capriati as cheat but if the roles had been reversed the same people would say that its not up to Serena to call the lines and that she did nothing wrong.
It's quite amusing how people only see what they want to and what they will say and do to denigrate someone who has a different opinion from them. You're a liar regarding Serena and Venus and Tiger. Serena and Venus have always embraced their race and ethnicity. Tiger has not. If anything, he's shunned it. If Serena and Venus had been the same as Tiger, I would say and feel the same thing about them as I do about Tiger and his actions. You also failed to see that I said I was a fan of Tiger Woods and I never said anything about him marrying that woman. My only beef with him was how he has shunned the part of him that people see most prominently. You are a troll and shit stirrer. You lie and distort to discredit posters who disagree with you. You are the same as Willow and that's not the kind of company I'd care to be associated with if I were you. Just go back to my posts in this thread and please post where I said anything different than what I'm saying now in response to your mischaracterization.

DeDe4925
Oct 8th, 2004, 10:07 PM
Should a person define themselves by what they feel they are, or what other people think they are?
:tape:
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=4283727#post4283727

Amorc
Oct 8th, 2004, 10:55 PM
It's quite amusing how people only see what they want to and what they will say and do to denigrate someone who has a different opinion from them. You're a liar regarding Serena and Venus and Tiger. Serena and Venus have always embraced their race and ethnicity. Tiger has not. If anything, he's shunned it. If Serena and Venus had been the same as Tiger, I would say and feel the same thing about them as I do about Tiger and his actions. You also failed to see that I said I was a fan of Tiger Woods and I never said anything about him marrying that woman. My only beef with him was how he has shunned the part of him that people see most prominently. You are a troll and shit stirrer. You lie and distort to discredit posters who disagree with you. You are the same as Willow and that's not the kind of company I'd care to be associated with if I were you. Just go back to my posts in this thread and please post where I said anything different than what I'm saying now in response to your mischaracterization.

Lol you are defensive aren't you. You do change your opinions based on the particular person involved in a situation, as do I and as do "most people",thats all Im saying . Eg I found Martina Hingis underarm serve at the French Open funny, I doubt I would of thought it was funny if Sampras had ever done it. Accept that in some situations your opinions of someones actions will change depending on who that person is. I dont see how that post mischaractorises you or discredits you. It was a post in which I was talking about people in general, not attacking you and I never said that u had said anything about Tigers marriage. I get the feeling you missed the point I was trying to get across.

kabuki
Oct 8th, 2004, 11:45 PM
As a person of mixed heritage, I find this thread very interesting. It's hard not to be offended when people take issue with whom it is that someone chooses to love and marry. If my parents had not been brave enough to marry in the sixties (when you had to be brave), my sisters and I would never had existed. If they had listened to other people, co-workers, friends, their own families, we would never have been. I wish people could just let love be. I wish Tiger and his bride the best of luck.

OUT!
Oct 8th, 2004, 11:48 PM
kabuki we think alike, my parents experience and personal worldview is identical.

Martian Willow
Oct 8th, 2004, 11:56 PM
:tape:
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?p=4283727#post4283727

Although it would appear that you have contradicted yourself again by doing what you accused me of doing, at least you will have discovered how little time it takes to find what you are looking for if you know how to look. Unfortunately, unless you can explain the contradiction between those two posts, your hard work has been somewhat less worthwhile than mine. :)

alias
Oct 9th, 2004, 12:52 AM
On the Oprah show today, Oprah said she did not attend Tigers wedding. I wonder if Venus and Serena were really there? or Britney?

Athena
Oct 9th, 2004, 09:07 AM
I dont think thats the case with Tiger. The other part of his race is Asian, but he never acts Asian or does anything to identify himself with that. In fact people think of him as black more than anything. I dont know any examples of people of mixed race doing that, in fact most of the time they are equally prous of both races.

He acts more like white more than anything.. :devil: dont you think so?

lizchris
Oct 9th, 2004, 12:40 PM
On the Oprah show today, Oprah said she did not attend Tigers wedding. I wonder if Venus and Serena were really there? or Britney?

I doubt Britney was there; I saw a recent picture of her and her himbo husband and it didn't look like she just attended a wedding.

DeDe4925
Oct 9th, 2004, 09:25 PM
Lol you are defensive aren't you. You do change your opinions based on the particular person involved in a situation, as do I and as do "most people",thats all Im saying . Eg I found Martina Hingis underarm serve at the French Open funny, I doubt I would of thought it was funny if Sampras had ever done it. Accept that in some situations your opinions of someones actions will change depending on who that person is. I dont see how that post mischaractorises you or discredits you. It was a post in which I was talking about people in general, not attacking you and I never said that u had said anything about Tigers marriage. I get the feeling you missed the point I was trying to get across.
Who isn't defensive on this message board? I don't change my opinions based on the particular person. I don't change my opinions. I qualify my opinions based on the situation.

DeDe4925
Oct 9th, 2004, 09:43 PM
Although it would appear that you have contradicted yourself again by doing what you accused me of doing, at least you will have discovered how little time it takes to find what you are looking for if you know how to look. Unfortunately, unless you can explain the contradiction between those two posts, your hard work has been somewhat less worthwhile than mine. :)
I think not. It obviously took you quite some time to find the post you claim contradicts my most recent post in this thread. That post was written in February. Quite a few months ago. Therefore, you had to search long and hard to find it. Whereas, the post you wrote the contradicts your post in this thread was written October 7, just a few days ago. Therefore, it wasn't that hard and didn't take me that long to find.

Fortunately, I don't have to explain it. For anyone who can read and comprehend, it's self-explanatory. I only did it to show what a hypocritical troll you are.

Martian Willow
Oct 9th, 2004, 09:58 PM
OK, see how long it takes you. Click on the Advanced Search link. Enter 'Car Key Boi' in the poster name box. Add a 3 to make 30 in the number of posts box. Click 'General Messages'. Click search. The thread you're looking for comes up on the first page. 30 seconds?

I remembered that thread because I started another one related to it. I didn't know you personally had posted in it.

I'm done for now. :yawn:

DeDe4925
Oct 9th, 2004, 10:05 PM
OK, see how long it takes you. Click on the Advanced Search link. Enter 'Car Key Boi' in the poster name box. Add a 3 to make 30 in the number of posts box. Click 'General Messages'. Click search. The thread you're looking for comes up on the first page. 30 seconds?

I remembered that thread because I started another one related to it. I didn't know you personally had posted in it.

I'm done for now. :yawn:
I agree, so whatever. :zzz:

OUT!
Oct 9th, 2004, 11:07 PM
He acts more like white more than anything.. :devil: dont you think so?No I disagree. What does "acting white" mean? :confused:

Paneru
Oct 10th, 2004, 01:36 AM
As a person of mixed heritage, I find this thread very interesting. It's hard not to be offended when people take issue with whom it is that someone chooses to love and marry. If my parents had not been brave enough to marry in the sixties (when you had to be brave), my sisters and I would never had existed. If they had listened to other people, co-workers, friends, their own families, we would never have been. I wish people could just let love be. I wish Tiger and his bride the best of luck.

Thanks! :wavey:

My parents dealt with the same.

They always told us you can't control
whom it is that you love, it just is.

I wish Tiger and his wife
all the best!

kabuki
Oct 12th, 2004, 02:14 AM
Thanks! :wavey:

My parents dealt with the same.

They always told us you can't control
whom it is that you love, it just is.

I wish Tiger and his wife
all the best!

:wavey: :cool: