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View Full Version : Edwards DESTROYING Cheney in post-debate polling


Volcana
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:32 AM
-----------------------
MSNBC - 637846 responses
-----------------------
68% Edwards
32% Cheney

Can I get a holy SHIT!

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CNN.com - 196271 votes
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78% Edwards
18% Cheney
04% Even


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FoxNews.com - 134,393 total votes
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52% Edwards
47% Cheney


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cbsnews.com
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79.44% Edwards
18.88% Cheney
01.68% Even

Wigglytuff
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:44 AM
dont forget CBS news:

Who won the vice presidential debate?

Dick Cheney:
18.88%
John Edwards:
79.44%
Neither man. It was a draw:
1.68%

Volcana
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:47 AM
dont forget CBS news:

Who won the vice presidential debate?

Dick Cheney:
18.88%
John Edwards:
79.44%
Neither man. It was a draw:
1.68%Thanks for the tip. As for SlazengerUser, you could put those quotes in your sig, so everyone can see them. With date and author. I've found that quite effective in shutting up people with more mouth than brains.

Jeleno Benesovo
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:55 AM
Seems that the republican ship is sinking :nerner:
The more debates the best for democrats... :yeah:

BTW I heard that Michael Moore wants to broadcast from coast to coast "Fahrenheit 9/11" the day before the elections... that could be the last nail in the republican coffin :devil:

Wigglytuff
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:26 AM
Seems that the republican ship is sinking :nerner:
The more debates the best for democrats... :yeah:

BTW I heard that Michael Moore wants to broadcast from coast to coast "Fahrenheit 9/11" the day before the elections... that could be the last nail in the republican coffin :devil:

as one of themost liberal persons on this board, i STRONGLY believe that would be a bad idea, for the simple fact that unlike "bowling for columbine" this movie sucks and presents nothing a semi informed viewer does not by now know already.

Jeleno Benesovo
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:33 AM
as one of themost liberal persons on this board, i STRONGLY believe that would be a bad idea, for the simple fact that unlike "bowling for columbine" this movie sucks and presents nothing a semi informed viewer does not by now know already.
sux in which sense? I've seen it and IMHO it's a good documentary (not as good as "bowling for columbine" though), and the ppl at Cannes thought the same, for some reason it won la "Palme d'Or" (which it's a "real" award unlike others....) ;)

I don't think it will be a bad idea, or will the documentary push the ppl to vote for Bush after they see it? ... I REALLY doubt it
:rolleyes:

Volcana
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:35 AM
SlazengerUser will try to bait you into a stupid arguement about this words. Ignore it. The quotes speak for themselves. Don't respond to any threads about it. Let the posting of YOUR words in HIS sig be a response.

ONthe debate, I'm AMAZED at the poll numbers. Every now and then, the American people show me they aren't as stupid as they act 99% of the time. Edwards had it on substance, but Satan's personal attacks were devastating.

Circe
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:48 AM
SlazengerUser will try to bait you into a stupid arguement about this words. Ignore it. The quotes speak for themselves. Don't respond to any threads about it. Let the posting of YOUR words in HIS sig be a response.

ONthe debate, I'm AMAZED at the poll numbers. Every now and then, the American people show me they aren't as stupid as they act 99% of the time. Edwards had it on substance, but Satan's personal attacks were devastating.
i hate to point it out, but slazengerusers second quote appears to be quoted out of context, unless of course youre saying indians SHOULD live in a hellhole.

also i think overbroadcasting of "Fahrenheit 911" is more likely to result in a negative reaction causing more people to vote for Herr Bush than otherwise.

Jeleno Benesovo
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:54 AM
also i think overbroadcasting of "Fahrenheit 911" is more likely to result in a negative reaction causing more people to vote for Herr Bush than otherwise.

I don't see any reason why this would happen.... "Inverse psychology" or sth?
:confused:

Wigglytuff
Oct 6th, 2004, 06:01 AM
SlazengerUser will try to bait you into a stupid arguement about this words. Ignore it. The quotes speak for themselves. Don't respond to any threads about it. Let the posting of YOUR words in HIS sig be a response.

ONthe debate, I'm AMAZED at the poll numbers. Every now and then, the American people show me they aren't as stupid as they act 99% of the time. Edwards had it on substance, but Satan's personal attacks were devastating.

thank you for the advise and i will take it to heart. :)

:)

sux in which sense? I've seen it and IMHO it's a good documentary (not as good as "bowling for columbine" though), and the ppl at Cannes thought the same, for some reason it won la "Palme d'Or" (which it's a "real" award unlike others....) ;)

I don't think it will be a bad idea, or will the documentary push the ppl to vote for Bush after they see it? ... I REALLY doubt it
:rolleyes:

why i think it sucks a late night rant:

1-it's really propaganda.
propaganda i mean:

1- The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
2- Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.

that is to say, it sproduced with the desired effect (hate bush) at the front sothat it over shadows the facts. which is really stupid because there are plentyof facts and good reasons to hate bush then to make fun of his golf habit. ok, he golfed forthe first nine months of his time in the office, what else.

2-thisgoes backto the end of the first point.
moore focuses too much on tidbits and leaves out very key facts like the 42$ million that the usa gave al qaeda in may of 2001. even though there was a warning that al qeada was planning an attack on us soil.

3-as adocumentary it sucks.
there is a less documenting and alot more hate bush voice over. an honest look at the word honest shows that really, the documentary sucks, in terms of art and video.

Jeleno Benesovo
Oct 6th, 2004, 06:29 AM
why i think it sucks a late night rant:

1-it's really propaganda.
propaganda i mean:
.

I see, you don't like the documentary basically by its political content... Well I Have seen this kind of reactions in many US citizens ("anti" and "pro" Bush) but not in foreigners who have seen the film... For most of us (foreigners) it's not just "propaganda" but really a good documentary. I guess that I have to be behind the eyes of some US citizen to understand you... But I won't even try to do it;)


and about the documentary suckin in terms of art let me tell you that most of the directors, artists, thinkers around the world doesn't thinks like you... Is very arguable your point about fahrenheit 9/11 being a bad movie... But I am not gonna argue about it because:

1. I don't care to argue about art when nobody has the truth on what is really art or not
2. For me it's a very good product in terms of art, and I know a bit about it.
3. I think the debate about the artistic quality of the documentary will rapidly turn into a politcal debate about its content... and I am not willing to do that since I am tired and makes no sense to me start that discussion.
4. I hope Michael Moore could broadcast it the day before the elections as I expect he wins the Oscar again... just to see how will be the reaction from the organizers towards his speech or if they would let him to say sth at all. :D
:wavey:
PS: I wanna add: I remember many ppl labeling "Bowling for Columbine" as propaganda "anti-right to use guns" (some sacred issue for many ppl). Many US citizens even called Moore an "unpatriotic bastard" (I remember pretty clearly some of those comments). Seems that Mr. Moore is better treated and understood outside his own country than in his country... But that is not new, the Bible says: "nobody is a prophet in his own land"

PS2: We are off track, so... adieu!

Philbo
Oct 6th, 2004, 06:33 AM
HOORAY!!! So happy to see this thread...

rand
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:21 AM
sux in which sense? I've seen it and IMHO it's a good documentary (not as good as "bowling for columbine" though), and the ppl at Cannes thought the same, for some reason it won la "Palme d'Or" (which it's a "real" award unlike others....) ;)

I don't think it will be a bad idea, or will the documentary push the ppl to vote for Bush after they see it? ... I REALLY doubt it
:rolleyes:
Moore's movies ARE NOT DOCUMENTARIES people...
(anyway that's the argument himself uses to justify the lies he puts in them....and yes I'm from the leftside...)

esquímaux
Oct 6th, 2004, 09:32 AM
Kerry :)

Volcana
Oct 6th, 2004, 12:27 PM
(anyway that's the argument himself uses to justify the lies he puts in them....and yes I'm from the leftside...)Moore's films are certainly not without opinion, however, it's been pretty well established that there aren't any lies in F911. There are a lot of things people didn't like, or felt he didn't present the other side of the arguement. But the things in the movie are all in and of themselves, literally true.

Youalso have to seperate 'Roger and Me', and 'Bowling for Columbine' which he DID describe as documentaries, from 'Fahrenheit 9/11' which he called 'an opinion piece'.

rand
Oct 6th, 2004, 12:40 PM
Moore's films are certainly not without opinion, however, it's been pretty well established that there aren't any lies in F911. There are a lot of things people didn't like, or felt he didn't present the other side of the arguement. But the things in the movie are all in and of themselves, literally true.

Youalso have to seperate 'Roger and Me', and 'Bowling for Columbine' which he DID describe as documentaries, from 'Fahrenheit 9/11' which he called 'an opinion piece'.
wan't there the "not lies but clearly misinformation" thingie about the number of congressmen having family in iraq?
for the record I'm not pro-bush, on the contrary, but I really feel moore is doing more damage than good....

Volcana
Oct 6th, 2004, 01:02 PM
wan't there the "not lies but clearly misinformation" thingie about the number of congressmen having family in iraq?
for the record I'm not pro-bush, on the contrary, but I really feel moore is doing more damage than good....If I recall, the issue turned on the fact that several congressmen had family in the service, they just weren't in Iraq. However, is that 'mis-information'? Take Kerry saying Bush served 'honorably' inthe national Guard in Vietanm. It's not true. Bush used his family connection to get jumped over other people to get into a unit he knew WOULDN'T go to Vietnam. That's 'running like a craven coward', not 'serving honorably'. But since there are National Guard units deployed in Iraq now, Kerry can't say that, politically.

Is that 'mis-information'? Or simply, failure to address that influence a conclusion?

rand
Oct 6th, 2004, 01:08 PM
If I recall, the issue turned on the fact that several congressmen had family in the service, they just weren't in Iraq. However, is that 'mis-information'? Take Kerry saying Bush served 'honorably' inthe national Guard in Vietanm. It's not true. Bush used his family connection to get jumped over other people to get into a unit he knew WOULDN'T go to Vietnam. That's 'running like a craven coward', not 'serving honorably'. But since there are National Guard units deployed in Iraq now, Kerry can't say that, politically.

Is that 'mis-information'? Or simply, failure to address that influence a conclusion?
if I recall well moore's argument was based on saying "we couldn't find any" is not lying because it doesn't state "there aren't any"....now that is what I would call at least demagogy....

Helas
Oct 6th, 2004, 01:48 PM
Bush should of dropped Cheney for Giuliani.

JonBcn
Oct 6th, 2004, 02:20 PM
You have to love those Foxnews figures :lol:

Wigglytuff
Oct 6th, 2004, 03:35 PM
i hate to point it out, but slazengerusers second quote appears to be quoted out of context, unless of course youre saying indians SHOULD live in a hellhole.

also i think overbroadcasting of "Fahrenheit 911" is more likely to result in a negative reaction causing more people to vote for Herr Bush than otherwise.

it is quoted out of context, less because i want but more because, if you havent noticed there is a charater limit.

but of course saying "indians" live in a "hellhole" shows a certain lack of whats the word... respect for indian culture, life and life standards. in addition to showing lack of tack, as well as self gratifing stupidity (really why ignore the human rights abuses that have always taken place in nations where international workers work for american factory. and not tell me its not true i have seem some of these abuses myself in countries like honduras.

Wigglytuff
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:03 PM
NO you dont see what i am trying to say.

its not thats politcal thats problematic. its thats simplistic, stupid and LACKS NEW INFORMATION, and i have already said that there is plenty of information out there.

propaganda, anti bush propaganda, propaganda is still propaganda.

IF one has absolutely NO idea about anything having to do with 9/11 the arguement could be made that its a worthwhile film. however, if one is an informed adult, its little more a tear jerker.

ummm the movie is notgoingto win anoscar, its not being entered into contention.

again, there is a BIG different between bowling for columbine, bowling went to great lengths to provide much new informaton that informed adults might not know.

lets not get simplitic and say that because he produced this bad movie he is all the things people have said about him in the past.

when you start thinking in those simplistic terms you end up like this fool:

Moore's movies ARE NOT DOCUMENTARIES people...
(anyway that's the argument himself uses to justify the lies he puts in them....and yes I'm from the leftside...)

seriously, most of moore documentaries are good documentaries, if no the would not have his oscar.

however, speaking forall americans issilly. this movie was NOT of the calibur and quality that we except. that goes without saying.

this particular movie sucked, i am not questioning his history. so why go there?

I see, you don't like the documentary basically by its political content... Well I Have seen this kind of reactions in many US citizens ("anti" and "pro" Bush) but not in foreigners who have seen the film... For most of us (foreigners) it's not just "propaganda" but really a good documentary. I guess that I have to be behind the eyes of some US citizen to understand you... But I won't even try to do it;)


and about the documentary suckin in terms of art let me tell you that most of the directors, artists, thinkers around the world doesn't thinks like you... Is very arguable your point about fahrenheit 9/11 being a bad movie... But I am not gonna argue about it because:

1. I don't care to argue about art when nobody has the truth on what is really art or not
2. For me it's a very good product in terms of art, and I know a bit about it.
3. I think the debate about the artistic quality of the documentary will rapidly turn into a politcal debate about its content... and I am not willing to do that since I am tired and makes no sense to me start that discussion.
4. I hope Michael Moore could broadcast it the day before the elections as I expect he wins the Oscar again... just to see how will be the reaction from the organizers towards his speech or if they would let him to say sth at all. :D
:wavey:
PS: I wanna add: I remember many ppl labeling "Bowling for Columbine" as propaganda "anti-right to use guns" (some sacred issue for many ppl). Many US citizens even called Moore an "unpatriotic bastard" (I remember pretty clearly some of those comments). Seems that Mr. Moore is better treated and understood outside his own country than in his country... But that is not new, the Bible says: "nobody is a prophet in his own land"

PS2: We are off track, so... adieu!

lakeway11
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:14 PM
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesF/bonesmen.jpg

Nobody
Oct 6th, 2004, 04:38 PM
I don't like Kerry :ras:

Bacardi
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:05 PM
Kerry/Edwards :worship:

PhoenixStorm
Oct 6th, 2004, 05:25 PM
Anyone with any sense in their head knows that Edwards won that debate.


I espcially liked when he pointed out that cheny voted against a martin luther king jr. holiday and cheny voted against a mandate that south africa free nelson mandela. Yeah what a moral guy cheny is, right?



Cheny spouted the party line over and over and the swing voters see right throught it. The people of america know Iraq is going badly and still the republican party refuses to address it. Fine, let them live in la la land while everyone else deals with reality.

Cheny even lied about never meeting Edwards before that night. :tape:

I also loved how cheny had no answers to the halliburton charges. The only thing cheny could do is say, " but you missed senate votes!" Yeah well he's running for the vice presidency you idiot of course he missed votes.

Just look how the spin masters are trying to call it a Tie or a Cheney win... Whatever he didnt win squat. The republican zombies will vote for dead head bush and his crony cheney no matter what. This election is not about republicans or democrats its about the undecided voters and the undecided voters know that edwards won that debate and came off as much more credible, trustworthy, and competent not a stubborn old goat like cheney.

Bacardi
Oct 6th, 2004, 06:52 PM
Edwards done a good job of the debate, because he answered the questions and proved just as Kerry did, to have more knowledge and be in touch with the American people more. Cheney, wouldn't know an American citizen from a Japanese citizen, because he looks out and only sees dollar signs. Edwards knows the condition this country is in, as well as all of us that are living it it know, Cheney hasn't been out enough to see what struggles are happening. A man that switches the topic from jobs/economy to his 'no child left behind' action, an action that's not got enough money to carry on. Sure that might work out in the future, but it's not helping people get jobs now. Cuz let's face it, how many 8 year olds do you know that are applying for jobs?

I think it's funny, especially now. Bushies, thought they were so far ahead in the polls, they forgot that most people really start getting involved in politics the final month before the election. I think they'll find a lot of people they never expected to come out of the woodworking, of being true, hard working, struggling Americans that will push Kerry and Edwards into office.

I personally think Kerry would make an excellent Commander and Cheif, he's quick thinking and not afraid to change his stance on something when he sees the situation has changed. Also, I don't see why we couldn't have 2 terms for Kerry, and then 2 terms for Edwards. I think if that happens will find the future is very bright for those of us growing older and our families that are growing up.

I Love Sharapova
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:16 PM
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesF/bonesmen.jpg
Precisely,Lakeway. While everyone else rejoices over this,you and I will sit and watch the world continue to go to hell in a handbasket. :sad:

Bacardi
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:20 PM
Then, explain to me lakeway and I Love Sharapova what we should do?

Leave Bush in office?
Everyone refuse to vote?
Vote for Kerry?
Impeach the entire government (damn I'd like to)?
Total anarchy? (As an avid punk music lover, Anarchy is cool)

I just want to know what your solution other than not voting and trying to ignore the problem to make it go away is?

I Love Sharapova
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:31 PM
Then, explain to me lakeway and I Love Sharapova what we should do?

Leave Bush in office?
Everyone refuse to vote?
Vote for Kerry?
Impeach the entire government (damn I'd like to)?
Total anarchy? (As an avid punk music lover, Anarchy is cool)

I just want to know what your solution other than not voting and trying to ignore the problem to make it go away is?
You know what,I am tempted to say that people should have to lay in the beds they have made for themselves. After all, we,at least collectively, are responsible for the garbage our government is today.
However,to appease your thirst for knowledge,I will tell you what should be done.

1. Get rid of corporate controlled politicians. Put people in there who are ACTUALLY FOR THE PEOPLE.

2. Demolish the two major political parties. They suck up all of the PAC money to keep third party politicians out of the race.The Republicans and Democrats are destroying this country.

3. Quit talking about this New World Order bullshit. A united world would just leave the doors wide open for a one world dictator. Sovereignty is the way it should be,not this conglomeration of nations garbage many politicians speak of today.

I can give you more thins that should be done if you so desire.

Bacardi
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:36 PM
You know what,I am tempted to say that people should have to lay in the beds they have made for themselves. After all, we,at least collectively, are responsible for the garbage our government is today.
However,to appease your thirst for knowledge,I will tell you what should be done.

1. Get rid of corporate controlled politicians. Put people in there who are ACTUALLY FOR THE PEOPLE.

2. Demolish the two major political parties. They suck up all of the PAC money to keep third party politicians out of the race.The Republicans and Democrats are destroying this country.

3. Quit talking about this New World Order bullshit. A united world would just leave the doors wide open for a one world dictator. Sovereignty is the way it should be,not this conglomeration of nations garbage many politicians speak of today.

I can give you more thins that should be done if you so desire.


I actually agree with what you are saying. However, realistically I don't see anytime in the near or distant future that there will be a true politician or individual that is for the people. Let's face it, every person that rises in politics does so due to some corporation or some political party giving them money to do so. So I don't know how any of this could be accomplished?

How could we get a real person, and keep them from being corrupted by money, power, greed, corporations, politics in office? I don't see any logical way to do it.

I don't agree with everything Kerry says. But I'd much rather have someone in office that's going to help the people that help the corporations. Yes Kerry is rich, but the thing is I honestly feel he'd be more for Americans and Bush is more for Business. That's simply why I'm voting for him over Bush. I also think for a hell of a long time the USA needs some health care policy in place, because I'm seeing a lot of kids locally that are getting sick and suffering because their parents cannot afford to go see the rich doctors that Bush keeps giving money back to. That's why I'm voting for Kerry, he's the lesser of the 2 evils.

I Love Sharapova
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:43 PM
You know,Bacardi,I don't think were as different as I once thought we were. ;) However, I must address this lesser of two evils argument that I continuously hear from people. Why do the American people allow it to get so bad to where they have to say things like this? Why not act instead of taking everything in stride? I have personally heard people say," Well, they are both shit but I am going to vote for the lesser of the two evils." Really?
To be honest,in the issues that really matter, I do not see a shread of difference between the two candidates. To me, it is evil vs.evil. :devil: Why not vote for someone who is not,at least not obviously for, the status quo of government? Why not take a chance on someone different? To me a lesser evil is still evil. What do you get when you fight fire with fire? A whole bunch of ashes. :lol:

Bacardi
Oct 6th, 2004, 07:55 PM
Because I will be honest with you, politics and even thou we are said to live in a "Democracy and Free Nation" isn't in our hands at all. Let's face it, these politicians we have to choose from, are hand picked long before we ever have a hand in it. So we can not vote, vote for Bush, or vote for Kerry. Because if we voted for Nader (who's views I actually agree with more) it just ends up being a vote for W. I cannot stand W, when I look at that man I am frightened by what another 4 years might do to this country. I think Kerry would be "less destructive", so I'll vote for him. It might not be the right thing to do, but it's the only thing I know to do. Because by God if any of us actually did get a nice uprising against the government going, we'd be shipped off to some exiled place to never be heard from again.

Yes but you have to agree, it might be evil vs. evil. But Kerry will at least give a lil more money, healthcare, and jobs to the citizens. While Bush will continue to outsource, ignore healthcare, and make the rich richer. See what I'm saying just to a point?

I'd actually like to go into politics, even here locally for my county. However, because I don't have the right name, or enough money in my family I'm not going to ever be considered. Unless by some weird way I found away to convince the local power people I can be just as evil and corrupt as they are.... that's about the only way to get in. If you want to see a fucked up local government Sharapova... you should seriously see where I live. I'll just throw a few examples out for you right now, and I can show you the proof to back it up.

The sheriff, who's served 3 terms now in that position, who got it when the old fart that never done anything before died. Took prisoners out of the jail for a day to let them vote for both he and his commonweath's attorney. Crooked, hell yes? He also takes pay outs from local drug dealers, and is involved in every other corrupt thing going on in this county.

The Commonweath's attorney. Did the same as the election as the Sheriff did. And isn't it a known fact, prisoners shouldn't be given a right to vote? Also she's been caught a few times smuggling drugs into and across the county line. She was caught in Scott county with a briefcase full of oxycontin and coke. Yet, nothing's done about it. Because as long as they convince the older people they are doing their jobs, they'll be elected until death.

The head nominee for the fall elections for Circuit Court Clerk, was placed in prison, abet a nice country club style one for 2 years for embezzlement from a coal mining establishment. He also was a supervisor for the mines, who didn't do his job, he took payouts from the company to sign faulty inspection forms. He allowed 2 workers to carry cigarrette lighters into the mines, and when they did there was an explosion that killed 5. And yet this is who the Republicans who are in control here, have elected as "their choice".

I Love Sharapova
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:09 PM
Bacardi,I can certainly appreciate that. I come from a hick little county that is run similarly. How many millions of people are in this country,Bacardi? It's over 400,000,000 isn't it? Now,as far as politicians go,we are talking about a handfull of power grubbers. Hell,the people could overthrow the whole damn government within a week if they so chose to!! However,instead of uprising,they sit in their chairs and listen to the likes of Kerry and Bush and say," Yep,yep,right on," to every damn word these guys are saying knowing that it is wrong. I do not understand people complacency. I do not understand peoples unwillingness to make a stand.I do not understand why our choices should be limited to two knuckleheads. :confused:

Pureracket
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:11 PM
I love Sharapova,
Do you feel moved to vote? I would imagine that it's hard for you. It is for me sometimes, but I feel obligated because of my culture's historical battle in order to get voting rights.

Bacardi
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:12 PM
Eitherway somehow it's between those 2, nothing that can be done or said about it. Nobody around here would make a stand against anything, the whole damn nation is exactly like where I live, content to sit back and hide and let things go. Because they are too blind, or too scared to do something about things.

I Love Sharapova
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:14 PM
I love Sharapova,
Do you feel moved to vote? I would imagine that it's hard for you. It is for me sometimes, but I feel obligated because of my culture's historical battle in order to get voting rights.
I don't feel inspired to vote at all.Like you,Pure,I feel like it is an obligation.

I Love Sharapova
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:17 PM
Eitherway somehow it's between those 2, nothing that can be done or said about it. Nobody around here would make a stand against anything, the whole damn nation is exactly like where I live, content to sit back and hide and let things go. Because they are too blind, or too scared to do something about things.
Exactly,Bacardi. :yeah: Well,maybe if enough people such as myself begin to speak out it will encourage people to begin to take action.We will see.

lakeway11
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:44 PM
well the 'lesser-of-two-evils' is a practical strategy--but it's not likely I have the wisdom to foresee who is most evil. Buchanan had been one of the few who has at least integrity disagree or agree with him. He was the ONLY candidate (as much as he was one) who spoke out against the HARSH sanctions against Iraq--and I supported him on this on this board while no one gave a fricken hoot (since there were Clinton's sanctions)...and as Hans-Hermann Hoppe eloquently writes: democracy sucks--there are much problems with this scared cow...the ONE thing that should be demanded is EVERY politician abide their so-called oath to uphold the Constitution of they should be purged from practicing politics...where are the USSR-style purges when you need them?

lakeway11
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:48 PM
But Kerry will at least give a lil more money, healthcare, and jobs to the citizens.

that none of his business to do in a free society...who is he going to take from to give to? leave a bureaucrat to decide those things? only the free-market should decide...unless of course if Kerry would like to spread his galzillions around a little to help then that is fine but to extort from others is another issue

pcrtennis
Oct 6th, 2004, 08:49 PM
Cheney pounded Edwards, those polls are soo inaccurate.....Cheney was on top of his game and pushed Edwards around. :bounce:

*JR*
Oct 6th, 2004, 10:23 PM
as one of themost liberal persons on this board, i STRONGLY believe that would be a bad idea, for the simple fact that unlike "bowling for columbine" this movie sucks and presents nothing a semi informed viewer does not by now know already.IC, Z-gurl, that during my (voluntary, BTW) "vacation" you've become quite pragmatic. :yeah:

Re. these sort of polls, they're not real ones (which were pretty even) but call-ins, and thus completely irrelevant to the public's "verdict" on the debate.

Philbo
Oct 6th, 2004, 11:19 PM
Volcana - are you able to post updated results of those polls your originally posted, what the tally was after more time for people to vote?

Volcana
Oct 6th, 2004, 11:39 PM
Cheney pounded Edwards, those polls are soo inaccurate.....Cheney was on top of his game and pushed Edwards around. :bounce:The polls are not 'inaccurate'. Most people just disagreed with you. Most of them though Edwards pounded Cheney.
Volcana - are you able to post updated results of those polls your originally posted, what the tally was after more time for people to vote?I can try. Annoyingly, they remove them fairly quickly, which I don't care for.

switz
Oct 6th, 2004, 11:47 PM
i'm glad to see these figures.

F911 was terrible however. most people liked it because there sick of bush etc and they like making him look like an idiot (which he is of course). no surprise the french loved it. an example of moore's techniques were the interviews with the soldiers where they talked about the music they liked to listen to - he made out they were his interviews but he actually just took them from an australian's documentary specifically about music and editing them for his own purposes.

did anyone not find it unbelievably coincidental that the women who was really pro iraq etc originally had her son die during filming? IMO and others he clearly told her act her original sentiments for dramatic affect.

i mean it had purpose for sure - as there is enough propaganda on the other side and sometimes you need to fight fire with fire, but let's not pretend this was a great documentary because it really was not.

*JR*
Oct 6th, 2004, 11:50 PM
The polls are not 'inaccurate'. Most people just disagreed with you. Most of them though Edwards pounded Cheney.
I can try. Annoyingly, they remove them fairly quickly, which I don't care for.They're not scientific samples, they're organized efforts by one or both sides. I'm totally for Kerry-Edwards (and voted for Edwards in the primaries) but to treat these "call-in rallies" as polls is flatout ridiculous.

pcrtennis
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:01 AM
Cheney won the debate because he controlled the tempo of the debate and was in control the whole time, not to mention pounding Edwards on his rediculous attendance records in the senate!! Cheney outclassed and outsmarted Edwards.

pcrtennis
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:05 AM
Plus, I don't think any Non-Americans should even be posting here...this is about the US elections....

Volcana
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:07 AM
They're not scientific samples, they're organized efforts by one or both sides. I'm totally for Kerry-Edwards (and voted for Edwards in the primaries) but to treat these "call-in rallies" as polls is flatout ridiculous.They are the best sample of a broad span of people's opinions available. As of five minutes ago, MSNBC had hda over 2 million votes intheir post-debate snap-poll. Taking a scientific sample of 2 million people simply can't be done that fast. Zogby or somebody may produce a scientific sample in a couple of days.

Czechfan - FoxNews and CNN.com have taken down their snap-polls. AT least I couldn't find them again. Next time, I'll bookmark the pages. MSNBC still has their poll up, and CBSNews has replaced their post debate poll with an ostensibly 'scientific' survey of 'likely' voters

-----------------------
MSNBC -
637846 responses | 2209662 responses
-----------------------
68% Edwards -----| 59% Edwards
32% Cheney ------| 41% Cheney

-----------------------
cbsnews.com* (These are the results of two different polls by cbsnews.)
-----------------------
79.44% Edwards --| 41% Edwards
18.88% Cheney ---| 28% Cheney
01.68% Even -----| 31% Even

*JR*
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:14 AM
Zogby or somebody may produce a scientific sample in a couple of days.

Right. So lets use those. (Smaller scintific samples are done much faster, BTW). If you seriously think any real campaign goes by these mass phonathons as "polls" you're very misinformed.

switz
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:15 AM
JR i was told you ask for your account to be disabled.

switz
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:16 AM
or should i say rothes/JR

*JR*
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:16 AM
JR i was told you ask for your account to be disabled.I missed you Alex. :p

GBFH
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:19 AM
:lol:

*JR*
Oct 7th, 2004, 12:26 AM
or should i say rothes/JRI wouldn't mind that silly accusation (which you made in the Peppermint Player's forum) except that you also cited a racist comment by Linton (Rothes) there B4 that. There are many black posters here who I trust will vouch for me not being someone who would do that. So Alex, plz think first and then type, OK? :rolleyes:

Philbo
Oct 7th, 2004, 01:25 AM
Thanks Volcana...

PCR Tennis - Im Australian and I have as much right an anyone to pass comment on the american elections.

Australia was also lead to war by Bush and his LIES, with Howard his lapdog, so please understand that the outcome of the american election has implications for every person on this planet.