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AjdeNate!
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:17 AM
Why is it that whenever:

Henin loses it's because she's 'small' in stature?
Venus loses it's because she was injured?
Monica loses it's because she's fat?
Serena loses it's because Venus withdraws?
Martina loses it's because she never beats the 'big babes'?


I thought that when you lose a match, that means the player that beat you was at least marginally better than you on that particular moment in time? Why do some people never think that perhaps a netcord at break point, or a double fault on match point, or an ace or service winner on game point may have just made the difference. Why is it always categorized in some people's minds that if a certain playter loses that it's unequivocably and undeniably because she's '_______'. Tennis is not about adjectives, folks. Wake up and actually pay attention to the subject that you think you are so informed about.

Miranda
Mar 15th, 2002, 07:38 AM
good post :)

thefreedesigner
Mar 15th, 2002, 08:05 AM
All people will try to give reasoning why their fave lost.

That's different from giving excuses, which few on this board do.

The funny thing about losing is that the players often are more philosophical about it than their fans are!

venusrocks
Mar 15th, 2002, 08:10 AM
;) GOOD ONE :) lol

irma
Mar 15th, 2002, 08:13 AM
Because fans can`t accept that their fav lost so they make excuses:)

Adrian
Mar 15th, 2002, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by venusrocks
;) GOOD ONE :) lol

You are one of the very people Seles is talking about, or have you forgetten your disgusting post in the deleted Thread?. I certainly haven't

A4
Mar 15th, 2002, 08:17 AM
Good post, freedesigner. There is a difference between looking for reasons for a loss/win and making excuses IMHO. Otherwise we should all accept everything as a fait accompli and not have questioning minds.

Gallofa
Mar 15th, 2002, 11:19 AM
When Conchita loses is because her dog ate her homework!

or something like that ;)

PamShriverRockz
Mar 15th, 2002, 11:27 AM
lol bea ;)
Interesting thread. I think we're all guilty of making up excuses rather than accepting they were beaten by the better player, I know I am! ;) :)

I hear Pam blames her doubles loss last year on the over-excitement of her fans distracting her confidence... ;)

Gallofa
Mar 15th, 2002, 12:58 PM
Funny you said that... I heard the same about Virginia Wade ;)

the_ancyent_marinere
Mar 15th, 2002, 01:11 PM
So true Seles, and I also believe that a defeat is a defeat even if its by default. Some people cannot consider that a certain player loses when she is injured.

To try and avoid injuries is a major part of the game. So, I dont consider withdrawals, walkovers etcetera as anything else than losing the match, or the opponent winning it.

cynicole
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by the_ancyent_marinere
To try and avoid injuries is a major part of the game. So, I dont consider withdrawals, walkovers etcetera as anything else than losing the match, or the opponent winning it.

I think that way too. The WTA doesn't though...when it comes to their win streak records. :(


The "journalists" do it too (come up with those "reasons")...which annoys me even more. Sometimes you get the feeling they didn't see the match.

Like when they almost always say that a Big Babe "overpowered" her opponent and that's why she won. When you watch some of those matches you could see the smaller player countering and holding their own and often dictating play and it's small little things that determined the outcome.

Sooooo annoying. :fiery:

Pureracket
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:27 PM
Venus only loses because she is injured. We won't mention the infamous bead incident in the Aussie semi' against LD or the bad line call "YOU KNOW IT WAS OUT, SHE KNEW IT WAS OUT, EVERYBODY KNEW IT WAS OUT!!!!!" incident at Wimbledon against Jana or the 6-1,6-1 debacle against Hingis last year at the Aussie Open semi last year and the . . . .yada, yada, yada. . . .

Vanity
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:37 PM
Unfortunately some people are too fanatical over their favorites that they have to make up excuses when they lose, even if the players themselves don't! I just don't see why people can't just enjoy the tennis. Let the players make the excuses instead.

Light-skinned Girl
Mar 15th, 2002, 02:58 PM
I couldn't agree more! A loss *is* a loss. Whenever Anna (my favorite player) loses regardless of the player I never make excuses and neither should fans of other players.

Bright Red
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Seles
Why is it that whenever:

Henin loses it's because she's 'small' in stature?
Venus loses it's because she was injured?
Monica loses it's because she's fat?
Serena loses it's because Venus withdraws?
Martina loses it's because she never beats the 'big babes'?


I thought that when you lose a match, that means the player that beat you was at least marginally better than you on that particular moment in time? Why do some people never think that perhaps a netcord at break point, or a double fault on match point, or an ace or service winner on game point may have just made the difference. Why is it always categorized in some people's minds that if a certain playter loses that it's unequivocably and undeniably because she's '_______'. Tennis is not about adjectives, folks. Wake up and actually pay attention to the subject that you think you are so informed about.

Nice post. I can see why you'd post it, but I don't totally agree with it. It's only natural for people to try to figure out what goes against the expected.

Most of the 5 players you listed are somewhat representative of players for whom "excuses" are made when they lose (although I wouldn't use that terminology). That's because they are expected to win. They usually perform at high levels, some have high winning percentages (eg Venus). For those player who usually lose, why bother: the reason is probably already known.

You probably do the same thing with regard to other things in life. For example, if you had a bicycle that could consistently outrun the other bikes in the neighborhood, and on one day it failed you, you'd try to figure out why it failed, and would probably come up with a valid reason in your opinion. I doubt your reason would be because the other bikes in the neighborhood were marginally better than yours on that day.

Of course that's a somewhat cumbersome analogy because a bike is a machine, whereas tennis players are not but the essence is the same. That's why when the favorite at the AO fell to someone she'd consistently beat in the past, the media and sports commentators blamed the defeat in large part on injury--even though the player herself never said a word. At that same tournament, when the #78 ranked player lost, not a word was said. That was to be expected.

A similar thing occurs when a player who usually loses finally does win. People try to figure out why, perhaps in hope of having it continue.

Pureracket
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:29 PM
Bright Red,
Nice post.

Bright Red
Mar 15th, 2002, 03:37 PM
ty, clocker:)

Cybelle Darkholme
Mar 15th, 2002, 05:19 PM
I agree and disagree. I mean yes a loss is a loss but when a player gets injured during the match, like serena did in sydney and have to withdraw from the match, then guess what? she lost because she was injured, thats not an excuse its a fact. Of course no shame to the winner I mean its not her fault if her competition gets injured and a win is a win no matter what.

Fingon
Mar 15th, 2002, 05:44 PM
You are making a huge mistake here Seles, you are generalising.

There isn't an absolute truth, you have to analyze circumstances, facts, you can't say that every time a player losses is because in that particular moment the other player was better, that's obvious, the "excuses" as you call them often refer to the reasons why the player who was was better in that particular moment.

It's the same as the phrase "a win is a win", that really irritates me because it does not make any sense, you can put every match, every win and every loss under the same label, if that's the case, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Some "excuses", are just that, an intend by the player, or her fans to justify a loss, and some are lame.

But there are often reasons why a player losses, and I am not talking when Venus beats Martina, or Justine, or Lindsay, that's something to expect (and the other way around). It's normal if a top player beats another top player, someone has to win, someone has to lose.

But normally, the "excuses" refer to those cases when a player losses a match she isn't supposed to lose, when according to their tennis abilities, surface, momentum and other factors, that player was supposed to win.

for example, and no disrespect to Meghann, but I really don't believe Meghann has the ability to beat Venus, specially on a hardcourt, but she did beat Venus in Stamford, so, I would tend to think there must be an "excuse" for that, obviously, in that match Meghann was better than Venus, but that's not what you would expect (if you know a little about tennis), so, you think there must be a reason for Meghann being better (or Venus being worse) that day. It's called common sense, you surely can make a distinction between lame excuses and real reasons, you can label the entire world under stereotypes, ... this happens, it's because of this, things are not that simple and there are often a bunch of reasons for things happening.

And notice I am making an excuse of Venus losing to Meghann and I am not a Venus fan.

venusrocks
Mar 15th, 2002, 06:09 PM
...and LL is for Lucky Loser!!

geez that sounds saaadd! You lose in qualifying and then get to play the actual draw b/c the next player can't.
Then you are considered a LUCKY LOSER!!! can't they just call it a lucky qualifier?

Zl@tko
Mar 15th, 2002, 06:31 PM
Interesting thread, Seles :cool:

lrg bllt
Mar 15th, 2002, 09:49 PM
That is soooo very true...i totally agree with you Seles.....

Martian Martin
Mar 16th, 2002, 12:20 AM
Yeah very true Seles, I couldn't agree more with you.

Volcana
Mar 16th, 2002, 12:23 AM
LOO-zaaah ... :)