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Infiniti2001
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:32 AM
Gay Rights Group: Probe Swaggart's Taxes

.c The Associated Press

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) - A gay rights group is asking the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the tax-exempt status of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries following the preacher's recent remark that he would ``kill'' any gay man who looked at him.

The Capital City Alliance suggested that Swaggart's remarks disqualify his businesses from continuing to enjoy no-tax privileges.

``Swaggart Businesses/Ministries should not continue to enjoy the benefits of 'tax-free living' when his organizations use millions of tax-free dollars to travel around and degrade taxpaying Americans,'' said Joe Traigle, the group's co-chairman.

In a broadcast this month, Swaggart was discussing his opposition to gay marriage when he said ``I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry.''

``And I'm going to be blunt and plain: If one ever looks at me like that, I'm going to kill him and tell God he died,'' Swaggart says, to laughter and applause from the congregation. He later apologized, saying the remark was meant to be humorous.

The gay rights group dismissed Swaggart's apology Tuesday. ``We all know that there are people out there that take these things very, very seriously,'' said Randal Beach, a lawyer for the organization.

Swaggart was a popular television evangelist during the 1980s until a 1987 sex scandal involving a prostitute that he met in a seedy New Orleans motel. Swaggart never confessed to anything more than an unspecified sin. A few years later, he was stopped by police while driving in California with a suspected prostitute in his car.

He did not immediately respond to an e-mail message seeking comment Tuesday.



09/28/04 19:47 EDT

How these people called themselves Christians is beyond me :rolleyes:

!!!--Duiz™--!!!
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:36 AM
:rolleyes:

They come to my city every six months....

Bacardi
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:36 AM
The same man that would regularly pick up whores on the streets. Sounds like he's doing a good job saving the world doesn't it? :rolleyes:

HYPOCRITE!!!!

BTW, might I add no gay man would ever even bother to look at Swaggart! He's ugly as sin, hell he even has to pay whores for sex. And gay men always have great taste, so Swaggart is off their list, I'm quite certain.

AjdeNate!
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:39 AM
But It's ok to fuck a hooker when you're married, .... nice. Gotta love the Religious Right. :rolleyes:

Mase
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:40 AM
He's such a self rightous dick.

Bacardi
Sep 29th, 2004, 06:15 AM
The scary part is, that stuff is still going on. For example if you live in the US or in some parts of the world look at the TBN network. They already proved that healer is a fake, and do you really need a ton of diamonds, expensive clothes, and a Benz to do God's work?
The last time I checked God loves the poor, and Wealth is a sin.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:34 PM
:wavey:

Don't base your perception of Christianity by what you see on TV and in the media. I too get disgusted by "the show" that is put on by many of the tele-evangelists. True faith in Christ is based on love for others.

This is not to say that I agree with the homosexual lifestyle. In fact, I'm very opposed to it. But, the message must be to gently explain in love why it's wrong - not to bash and make fun.

kabuki
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:42 PM
:wavey:

Don't base your perception of Christianity by what you see on TV and in the media. I too get disgusted by "the show" that is put on by many of the tele-evangelists. True faith in Christ is based on love for others.

This is not to say that I agree with the homosexual lifestyle. In fact, I'm very opposed to it. But, the message must be to gently explain in love why it's wrong - not to bash and make fun.

Why it's wrong for YOU.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Why it's wrong for YOU.
No, I believe in moral absolutes. It's either right or wrong - not right for someone and wrong for someone else... That's just what I believe...

kabuki
Sep 29th, 2004, 01:48 PM
No, I believe in moral absolutes. It's either right or wrong - not right for someone and wrong for someone else... That's just what I believe...

So, murder is always wrong?

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 02:03 PM
So, murder is always wrong?
Yes.

But two points on that.

(1). Murder, like all other sins, can be forgiven through honest, sincere repentence and accepting Christ as Savior.

(2). There is a difference between all killing and "murder". There are times in the Bible when God commissioned the children of Israel to go into foreign lands and wipe the people out. This was not murder - it was commissioned of God. If someone breaks into your house and you defend yourself against them, I'm not convinced that's murder. Anyway, God knows the intent of each heart.

Remember, King David was essentially guilty of murdering Bathsheba's husband, even though he didn't directly take his life. He set him up and had someone else do it. David was forgiven of that sin because of his repentence. But, even though he was forgiven, his sin caused many consequences for him throughout the rest of his life. He was not even allowed to build God's temple, because he had been such a man of war.

Even with forgiveness, there are still consequences to sin.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 02:04 PM
Christians can keep their message to themselves, non-Christians ARE NOT INTERESTED TO HEAR ABOUT THEIR MESSAGE. Thanks.I think that's a generalization. There are many non-Christians who are seaching and looking for meaning in life and are receptive to the message of Jesus. It sounds as if you are not at this point in your life, but please respect the fact that there are others who may be.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 02:22 PM
If Christianity is less and less popular, it has to be because non-Christians are not interested to the Christian message.

Besides, every people know about the Christian message. We don't need people to annoy us with the Christian message. We all know what their stands are, what their messages are.
Sorry, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I do believe that there are people who are interested in hearing the Christian message. Maybe the minority of non-Christians, I'll give you that - but still a significant number of people in the world who are interested in hearing.

Elvira
Sep 29th, 2004, 06:28 PM
Nash you are by far the most ignorant and naive poster I've ever seen. Get with the times sweetie. :wavey:

Andy T
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Yes.

But two points on that.

(1). Murder, like all other sins, can be forgiven through honest, sincere repentence and accepting Christ as Savior.

(2). There is a difference between all killing and "murder". There are times in the Bible when God commissioned the children of Israel to go into foreign lands and wipe the people out. This was not murder - it was commissioned of God. If someone breaks into your house and you defend yourself against them, I'm not convinced that's murder. Anyway, God knows the intent of each heart.

Remember, King David was essentially guilty of murdering Bathsheba's husband, even though he didn't directly take his life. He set him up and had someone else do it. David was forgiven of that sin because of his repentence. But, even though he was forgiven, his sin caused many consequences for him throughout the rest of his life. He was not even allowed to build God's temple, because he had been such a man of war.

Even with forgiveness, there are still consequences to sin.So what you're saying is this: if god commissions you to kill someone, it's ok - not just ok but good because i was god's will.

So if god commisisions people to sleep with someone of the same sex, that's ok, too - or rather good?

By this same logic, you can't argue that homosexuality is "wrong" in itself because anything is good if commissioned by God and everything not commissioned by god is wrong. The act itself is no longer important, just whether or not god commissions it. This is an amoral not a moral god because
the only basis of this morality is if he agrees with it or not.

ps: the bible does actually say "thou shalt not kill" - no mention there of any special circumstances.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:02 PM
:wavey:

Don't base your perception of Christianity by what you see on TV and in the media. I too get disgusted by "the show" that is put on by many of the tele-evangelists. True faith in Christ is based on love for others.

This is not to say that I agree with the homosexual lifestyle. In fact, I'm very opposed to it. But, the message must be to gently explain in love why it's wrong - not to bash and make fun.
The "homosexual lifestyle"... I always get a kick out of that one.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:04 PM
Sorry, but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I do believe that there are people who are interested in hearing the Christian message. Maybe the minority of non-Christians, I'll give you that - but still a significant number of people in the world who are interested in hearing.
He's probably right here. I'm not interested in the "Christian message", as I have already heard it 600 times, but I'm sure there are non Christians who are. Why the rest of us have to suffer because of that, I don't know ;)

Crazy Canuck
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:06 PM
Nash you are by far the most ignorant and naive poster I've ever seen. Get with the times sweetie. :wavey:
I don't particularly like nash; I find him very irritating and "holier than thou". I don't consider him ignorant and naive though, even if he does spit out nonsense like "the homosexual lifestyle". At least his opinion is based on belief, even if it's not a belief that I buy into. It's also not a very popular one around these boards (uh, for good reason), so at least he sticks to his guns in light of that... even if it is irritating ;)

Pureracket
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:18 PM
:wavey:

Don't base your perception of Christianity by what you see on TV and in the media. I too get disgusted by "the show" that is put on by many of the tele-evangelists. True faith in Christ is based on love for others.

This is not to say that I agree with the homosexual lifestyle. In fact, I'm very opposed to it. But, the message must be to gently explain in love why it's wrong - not to bash and make fun.Why do some people think that homosexuals give a hot, smoky, damn whether or not they agree with our lifestyle at all? Is it so hard to keep your condescendingly judgemental thoughts to yourselves? You know what I get digusted by? I get disgusted by "the show" that you religious zealots put on in the name of a God who is supposed to represent love and compassion. Wherever my spirit goes when I die, I hope it ends up in a different place than your type. I wouldn't want anyone there "opposed" to my very existence.

Knizzle
Sep 29th, 2004, 07:44 PM
Why do some people think that homosexuals give a hot, smoky, damn whether or not they agree with our lifestyle at all? Is it so hard to keep your condescendingly judgemental thoughts to yourselves? You know what I get digusted by? I get disgusted by "the show" that you religious zealots put on in the name of a God who is supposed to represent love and compassion. Wherever my spirit goes when I die, I hope it ends up in a different place than your type. I wouldn't want anyone there "opposed" to my very existence.
You act as if Nash is out on the street with the idiots holding up "God hates fags" signs or something. You can't respect his opinion without name calling and making sweeping generalizations??

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:20 PM
ps: the bible does actually say "thou shalt not kill" - no mention there of any special circumstances.
Actually, I believe if you look at the literal translation, you'll see that it means "You shall not murder"...

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:20 PM
I don't particularly like nash; I find him very irritating and "holier than thou". I don't consider him ignorant and naive though, even if he does spit out nonsense like "the homosexual lifestyle". At least his opinion is based on belief, even if it's not a belief that I buy into. It's also not a very popular one around these boards (uh, for good reason), so at least he sticks to his guns in light of that... even if it is irritating ;)
Uhhh, thanks, I think... ;)

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:22 PM
Nash you are by far the most ignorant and naive poster I've ever seen. Get with the times sweetie. :wavey:
Thanks! That's the best compliment that I've received all day!

:D

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Why do some people think that homosexuals give a hot, smoky, damn whether or not they agree with our lifestyle at all?
I'm perfectly aware that you don't care.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:50 PM
Uhhh, thanks, I think... ;)
No problem. There was a compliment burried in there somewhere!

¤CharlDa¤
Sep 29th, 2004, 08:54 PM
Dr Martian Bagel :worship: Indeed, we don't f'cking care :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Pureracket
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:15 PM
You act as if Nash is out on the street with the idiots holding up "God hates fags" signs or something. You can't respect his opinion without name calling and making sweeping generalizations??. . .and how do you know that Nash isn't? I think your interpretation for "name calling" may be what others might call a compliment.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:19 PM
. . .and how do you know that Nash isn't? I think your interpretation for "name calling" may be what others might call a compliment.
Now if I were out on the street with the idiots, I couldn't be inside typing on the computer, could I? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Pureracket
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:22 PM
Now if I were out on the street with the idiots, I couldn't be inside typing on the computer, could I? :lol: :lol: :lol:You may be the proof that idiots can indeed type. :)

gentenaire
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:22 PM
That's just what I believe...
Exactly, what YOU believe! So those morals aren't universal but morals YOU believe in.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:25 PM
You may be the proof that idiots can indeed type. :)
You could be right! :lol:

Knizzle
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:26 PM
. . .and how do you know that Nash isn't? I think your interpretation for "name calling" may be what others might call a compliment.
If he was filled with enough hate to be out on the streets doing that I doubt he'd be in here saying the message should be told with love and compassion. He'd probably be saying more vile and vicious things to you over the PC.

I can't imagine who would call that a compliment.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:27 PM
Exactly, what YOU believe! So those morals aren't universal but morals YOU believe in.
You know, Tine, I'm not sure how to answer you anymore - other than to say I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. We will find out someday who was right...

Pureracket
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:33 PM
If he was filled with enough hate to be out on the streets doing that I doubt he'd be in here saying the message should be told with love and compassion. He'd probably be saying more vile and vicious things to you over the PC.

I can't imagine who would call that a compliment.I'm seriously hoping you see the comedy of the first paragraph that you wrote. You're saying that hateful people never act rational? You're saying that everybody who hates you is vicious and vile to you?

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean that it's not true.

gentenaire
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:37 PM
We will find out someday who was right...
I don't believe that. When you're dead, your mind can no longer register anything, can no longer come to the realisation that there's no heaven, for example, because it has stopped functioning.

nash
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:41 PM
I don't believe that. When you're dead, your mind can no longer register anything, can no longer come to the realisation that there's no heaven, for example, because it has stopped functioning.
OK - let me rephrase. If you're right - it won't matter to either of us. If I'm right, you're in big, big trouble...

Stamp Paid
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:48 PM
I'm seriously hoping you see the comedy of the first paragraph that you wrote. You're saying that hateful people never act rational? You're saying that everybody who hates you is vicious and vile to you?

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean that it's not true.
You dont make sense. Wouldnt it be easier for him to come online and degrade/denigrate you, than go out in the streets and hold up "God Hates Fags" signs?! If he doesn't do it here, then why would he do it publicly?

Come on, Nash doesn't agree with your lifestyle, and he has that right. Just like some of you people say in GM towards black WS fans "whining" about racism regarding Venus and Serena, "No one is going to accept your opinions/agree with you if you're so forceful/abrasive." Stop being Thought Nazis.
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif

griffin
Sep 29th, 2004, 09:51 PM
I'm with Crazy Canuck on this one (I think): I disagree - quite strongly - with nash's religious beliefs, and in fact my patience with Xtian proselytizing is at a particularly low ebb these days. But I wouldn't lump him in with the Jimmy Swaggarts and Fred Phelps' of the world.

Knizzle
Sep 29th, 2004, 10:22 PM
I'm seriously hoping you see the comedy of the first paragraph that you wrote. You're saying that hateful people never act rational? You're saying that everybody who hates you is vicious and vile to you?

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean that it's not true.
C'mon, since when do hateful people on THIS board act rational?? We are WS fans so we know what hateful people on this board do.

Pureracket
Sep 29th, 2004, 10:33 PM
You dont make sense. Wouldnt it be easier for him to come online and degrade/denigrate you, than go out in the streets and hold up "God Hates Fags" signs?! If he doesn't do it here, then why would he do it publicly?

Come on, Nash doesn't agree with your lifestyle, and he has that right. Just like some of you people say in GM towards black WS fans "whining" about racism regarding Venus and Serena, "No one is going to accept your opinions/agree with you if you're so forceful/abrasive." Stop being Thought Nazis.
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/wavey.gifThere goes that "lifestyle" word again. . .LOL;)

kabuki
Sep 30th, 2004, 02:37 AM
Yes.

But two points on that.

(1). Murder, like all other sins, can be forgiven through honest, sincere repentence and accepting Christ as Savior.

(2). There is a difference between all killing and "murder". There are times in the Bible when God commissioned the children of Israel to go into foreign lands and wipe the people out. This was not murder - it was commissioned of God. If someone breaks into your house and you defend yourself against them, I'm not convinced that's murder. Anyway, God knows the intent of each heart.

Remember, King David was essentially guilty of murdering Bathsheba's husband, even though he didn't directly take his life. He set him up and had someone else do it. David was forgiven of that sin because of his repentence. But, even though he was forgiven, his sin caused many consequences for him throughout the rest of his life. He was not even allowed to build God's temple, because he had been such a man of war.

Even with forgiveness, there are still consequences to sin.

That does not sound like a moral absolute to me.....

Elvira
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:10 AM
Christianity is like communism.. a good idea in theory, but never works out because people become too manipulative, hypocritical and break too many of their own rules.

I thought Christians were supposed to support love, not hate. Yet they are always bringing down gay people. It is none of their business who they are attracted to. They are entitled to their opinion, sure, but you won't see too many people going around admitting their hate of say, blacks, hispanics or asians like christians do with their hate of homosexuals. They would be booted off and condemned by all. It is so hypocritical, and I find the way Nash talks to be very offensive and condescending. I won't be reading any more of his posts.

CJ07
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:21 AM
Gay Rights Group: Probe Swaggart's Taxes

.c The Associated Press

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) - A gay rights group is asking the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the tax-exempt status of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries following the preacher's recent remark that he would ``kill'' any gay man who looked at him.

The Capital City Alliance suggested that Swaggart's remarks disqualify his businesses from continuing to enjoy no-tax privileges.

``Swaggart Businesses/Ministries should not continue to enjoy the benefits of 'tax-free living' when his organizations use millions of tax-free dollars to travel around and degrade taxpaying Americans,'' said Joe Traigle, the group's co-chairman.

In a broadcast this month, Swaggart was discussing his opposition to gay marriage when he said ``I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry.''

``And I'm going to be blunt and plain: If one ever looks at me like that, I'm going to kill him and tell God he died,'' Swaggart says, to laughter and applause from the congregation. He later apologized, saying the remark was meant to be humorous.

The gay rights group dismissed Swaggart's apology Tuesday. ``We all know that there are people out there that take these things very, very seriously,'' said Randal Beach, a lawyer for the organization.

Swaggart was a popular television evangelist during the 1980s until a 1987 sex scandal involving a prostitute that he met in a seedy New Orleans motel. Swaggart never confessed to anything more than an unspecified sin. A few years later, he was stopped by police while driving in California with a suspected prostitute in his car.

He did not immediately respond to an e-mail message seeking comment Tuesday.



09/28/04 19:47 EDT

How these people called themselves Christians is beyond me :rolleyes:
Obviously dude is wrong, but getting into his taxes is a bit much.

Geez man why do you have to make us look so bad!? :mad:

CJ07
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:22 AM
Christianity is like communism.. a good idea in theory, but never works out because people become too manipulative, hypocritical and break too many of their own rules.

I thought Christians were supposed to support love, not hate. Yet they are always bringing down gay people. It is none of their business who they are attracted to. They are entitled to their opinion, sure, but you won't see too many people going around admitting their hate of say, blacks, hispanics or asians like christians do with their hate of homosexuals. They would be booted off and condemned by all. It is so hypocritical, and I find the way Nash talks to be very offensive and condescending. I won't be reading any more of his posts.
:rolleyes:

The acts of few do not represent the acts of all. That's all I'm saying

gentenaire
Sep 30th, 2004, 05:53 AM
OK - let me rephrase. If you're right - it won't matter to either of us. If I'm right, you're in big, big trouble...

You mean your god isn't as good and forgiving as you claim him to be? He's really a bully in the end, is he?

Besides, believing in god because it's the safest option is not a good reason to believe. Than you might as well start believing in everything people come up with, just to be on the safe side.

Ekkekko
Sep 30th, 2004, 06:01 AM
The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything or so it seems. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window ;)

kabuki
Sep 30th, 2004, 02:32 PM
OK - let me rephrase. If you're right - it won't matter to either of us. If I'm right, you're in big, big trouble...

I believe that if there is a God, he/she/they won't care that we questioned on Earth. Mindless thralls are no more worthy of Heaven than critical thinkers.

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:19 PM
I believe that if there is a God, he/she/they won't care that we questioned on Earth. Mindless thralls are no more worthy of Heaven than critical thinkers.
kabuki -

First of all, let me say that you have every right to believe what you believe. I don't want to start an argument with you. But I would like to ask you a question:

Where do your beliefs come from and what are they based on?

I can tell you that my beliefs come from the Bible, which I believe to be God's inspired word. Do you entirely disregard the Bible? Do you believe that Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, Paul, etc... ever existed?

The teachings of the Bible (both Old Testament and New Testament) are totally contradictory to what you have said your beliefs are.

God does indeed care. He created you and wants to have a relationship with you.

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 03:25 PM
He does have the right, however I don't see why would people care about other people personal choice whic don't concern them? People's moral concern... themselves only.

If Nash thinks the "gay lifestyle" is wrong, then I'm assuming he lives the "heterosexual lifestyle". Good for him. But if other people live the "gay lifestyle", how exactly does it concern him (or any other Christians?).

Live and let live. I can't stand religions who try to "convert" or constantly try to tell other people what kind of moral is better.
Dr. B. -

Re-read my original post. I said that Swaggert's comments were wrong and that Christians should witness in love, not hate. I don't hate you at all. Not sure why you think that.

kabuki
Sep 30th, 2004, 04:02 PM
kabuki -

First of all, let me say that you have every right to believe what you believe. I don't want to start an argument with you. But I would like to ask you a question:

Where do your beliefs come from and what are they based on?

I can tell you that my beliefs come from the Bible, which I believe to be God's inspired word. Do you entirely disregard the Bible? Do you believe that Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, Paul, etc... ever existed?

The teachings of the Bible (both Old Testament and New Testament) are totally contradictory to what you have said your beliefs are.

God does indeed care. He created you and wants to have a relationship with you.

I believe the Bible is a great book written by men and retranslated over and again. There are factual places and people in the Bible, but not everything contained within is fact. I myself ascribe to spirituality rather than any particular religion. I have no interest in telling others who is and who is not going to heaven. Christians saying Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus etc. are all going to Hell makes zero sense to me. Religion has also been used to start wars, and unify peoples to war. (Crusades, WWII, etc.)

I understand and accept the need for religion in retaining the cohesiveness of societies. Many people need a set of rules in order to know how to conduct themselves. I just also feel it is, for me, an outmoded and uneccessary construct.

I also believe that in the US, freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. It gets my hackles up when people try to enforce their morals and dogma on me, whether it is through laws, amendments, social pressure, or posts on a tennis website.

And if you want to argue the Bible, here are some other items to ponder along with the fact that we shouldn't be gay-

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They keep phoning the police claiming that the odor is noxious. Should I smite the guy next door after the cops leave?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her given that she's only 12-years-old?

3. And speaking of children, my teenage son is stubborn and rebellious. I know that I should have him stoned to death by all the men in the city (Deut. 21:18), but I live in a city of over a million, and that's just not going to be easy to organize. Couldn't I just get my buddies at work to pump a few rounds from a shotgun in him for target practice?

4. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

5. (For Americans only) Lev. 25:44 which states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? I have been unable to find any reference to Canada in the Bible. Why can't I own Canadians?

6. The guy down the street insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or can I round up a posse of neighbours and stone him to death first thing Monday morning?

7. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? This is a serious problem for me as my wife (husband) loves shellfish.

8. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

9. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they be put to death?

10. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

11. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)?

12. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

13. Jesus says Himself that if a Christian drinks a deadly poison, it won't hurt him at all. (Mark 16:18) I think that's absolutely amazing. Since you're a devout Christian, could you demonstrate that to me by swallowing this bottle of rat poison?

Knizzle
Sep 30th, 2004, 04:29 PM
I believe the Bible is a great book written by men and retranslated over and again. There are factual places and people in the Bible, but not everything contained within is fact. I myself ascribe to spirituality rather than any particular religion. I have no interest in telling others who is and who is not going to heaven. Christians saying Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus etc. are all going to Hell makes zero sense to me. Religion has also been used to start wars, and unify peoples to war. (Crusades, WWII, etc.)

I understand and accept the need for religion in retaining the cohesiveness of societies. Many people need a set of rules in order to know how to conduct themselves. I just also feel it is, for me, an outmoded and uneccessary construct.

I also believe that in the US, freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. It gets my hackles up when people try to enforce their morals and dogma on me, whether it is through laws, amendments, social pressure, or posts on a tennis website.

And if you want to argue the Bible, here are some other items to ponder along with the fact that we shouldn't be gay-

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They keep phoning the police claiming that the odor is noxious. Should I smite the guy next door after the cops leave?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her given that she's only 12-years-old?

3. And speaking of children, my teenage son is stubborn and rebellious. I know that I should have him stoned to death by all the men in the city (Deut. 21:18), but I live in a city of over a million, and that's just not going to be easy to organize. Couldn't I just get my buddies at work to pump a few rounds from a shotgun in him for target practice?

4. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

5. (For Americans only) Lev. 25:44 which states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? I have been unable to find any reference to Canada in the Bible. Why can't I own Canadians?

6. The guy down the street insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or can I round up a posse of neighbours and stone him to death first thing Monday morning?

7. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? This is a serious problem for me as my wife (husband) loves shellfish.

8. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

9. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they be put to death?

10. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

11. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev. 24:10-16)?

12. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

13. Jesus says Himself that if a Christian drinks a deadly poison, it won't hurt him at all. (Mark 16:18) I think that's absolutely amazing. Since you're a devout Christian, could you demonstrate that to me by swallowing this bottle of rat poison?
You should consult a local pentecostal church and speak to the pastor there about these things, then get back to us.

jacobruiz
Sep 30th, 2004, 04:39 PM
I think self-righteous fanatics of all religions are and have been the biggest cause of war, mass-murders and general misery in the world.

If there IS a god, which nobody on earth can be certain of, wouldn't he/she be PERFECT? He/she wouldn't hate their own creation, which would include blacks, whites, gays and well, everybody. If there is a god I believe this god would love anyone who was a good person and good to others of god's creation, regardless of their "religion" or lack of one.

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 05:43 PM
:cool: I think self-righteous fanatics of all religions are and have been the biggest cause of war, mass-murders and general misery in the world.

If there IS a god, which nobody on earth can be certain of, wouldn't he/she be PERFECT? He/she wouldn't hate their own creation, which would include blacks, whites, gays and well, everybody. If there is a god I believe this god would love anyone who was a good person and good to others of god's creation, regardless of their "religion" or lack of one.
But that's just the point. God IS perfect and has perfect love. It is US who have turned away, not Him. God loves each and every one of us, and is not willing for any of us to perish. That's why He has provided a way for EVERYONE to be saved - and that way is Jesus Christ. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father, but through me" (emphasis added). Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven. The Bible is very, very clear on that. Why would a loving God send someone to Hell? Because that someone CHOOSES Hell. It's a simple choice - God or Not God.

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 05:48 PM
And if you want to argue the Bible
Again, I am not here to argue with you. Just to explain what I believe and why. You have told me WHAT you believe, but I still do not understand what is your SOURCE for that belief. Is there a basis for it?

kabuki
Sep 30th, 2004, 08:05 PM
Again, I am not here to argue with you. Just to explain what I believe and why. You have told me WHAT you believe, but I still do not understand what is your SOURCE for that belief. Is there a basis for it?

There is no source but my own thoughts and beliefs. (Along with some handy Biblical examples from a nifty webiste) My job is not to judge, or decide who's good or who's going to heaven. My job is simply to try to be a good person, no matter who it is I love. So, what do you think of my other Leviticus examples?

Elvira
Sep 30th, 2004, 08:47 PM
:cool:
But that's just the point. God IS perfect and has perfect love. It is US who have turned away, not Him. God loves each and every one of us, and is not willing for any of us to perish. That's why He has provided a way for EVERYONE to be saved - and that way is Jesus Christ. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father, but through me" (emphasis added). Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven. The Bible is very, very clear on that. Why would a loving God send someone to Hell? Because that someone CHOOSES Hell. It's a simple choice - God or Not God.

So in that case, anybody who believes in allah or buddah is going to hell. :rolleyes:

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:18 PM
There is no source but my own thoughts and beliefs. (Along with some handy Biblical examples from a nifty webiste) My job is not to judge, or decide who's good or who's going to heaven. My job is simply to try to be a good person, no matter who it is I love. So, what do you think of my other Leviticus examples?
OK - you have no source for your beliefs, except for your thoughts.

Question: If you were to become convinced (by your thoughts) that God exists and gave His only son Jesus on the cross for your sins, would you be willing to accept Him?

kabuki - I ask you to do me a favor. Get a copy of the book "More Than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. Give it a read and let me know what you think. I am interested to know if this changes your viewpoint at all.

Your friend,

-nash-

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:20 PM
So in that case, anybody who believes in allah or buddah is going to hell. :rolleyes:
John 14:6

Elvira, what are your beliefs? What is the source?

kabuki
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:29 PM
OK - you have no source for your beliefs, except for your thoughts.

Question: If you were to become convinced (by your thoughts) that God exists and gave His only son Jesus on the cross for your sins, would you be willing to accept Him?

kabuki - I ask you to do me a favor. Get a copy of the book "More Than a Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. Give it a read and let me know what you think. I am interested to know if this changes your viewpoint at all.

Your friend,

-nash-

I happen to have an open mind. I will read it and get back to you.

nash
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:34 PM
I happen to have an open mind. I will read it and get back to you.
Thank you, kabuki. You seem like a really nice person.

GBFH
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:47 PM
:cool:
But that's just the point. God IS perfect and has perfect love. It is US who have turned away, not Him. God loves each and every one of us, and is not willing for any of us to perish. That's why He has provided a way for EVERYONE to be saved - and that way is Jesus Christ. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father, but through me" (emphasis added). Jesus is the ONLY way to Heaven. The Bible is very, very clear on that. Why would a loving God send someone to Hell? Because that someone CHOOSES Hell. It's a simple choice - God or Not God.
well that sounds pleasant.

kabuki
Sep 30th, 2004, 09:53 PM
Thank you, kabuki. You seem like a really nice person.

So do you, but you are a poor judge of character. :lol: ;)

Elvira
Oct 1st, 2004, 05:43 AM
Somebody needs to tie Nash down and make him watch The Baby of Mâcon over and over again! :tape:

nash
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:00 AM
Somebody needs to tie Nash down and make him watch The Baby of Mâcon over and over again! :tape:
So how about it, Elvira? Do you have any spiritual beliefs?

Pureracket
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:04 AM
Nash,
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=135322


:)

nash
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:08 AM
Nash,
http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=135322


:)
Hi Pureracket - I don't understand... What does that have to do with Elvira's spiritual beliefs? :)

Crazy Canuck
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:18 AM
You dont make sense. Wouldnt it be easier for him to come online and degrade/denigrate you, than go out in the streets and hold up "God Hates Fags" signs?! If he doesn't do it here, then why would he do it publicly?

Come on, Nash doesn't agree with your lifestyle, and he has that right. Just like some of you people say in GM towards black WS fans "whining" about racism regarding Venus and Serena, "No one is going to accept your opinions/agree with you if you're so forceful/abrasive." Stop being Thought Nazis.
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif
Forgive me for going off track, but how on earth is one to distinguish between the "black' WS fans an the "non black" WS fans. Is there a fool proof method of doing this that simply isn't occuring to me at this time?

Crazy Canuck
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:19 AM
I'm with Crazy Canuck on this one (I think): I disagree - quite strongly - with nash's religious beliefs, and in fact my patience with Xtian proselytizing is at a particularly low ebb these days. But I wouldn't lump him in with the Jimmy Swaggarts and Fred Phelps' of the world.
That is more or less what I meant ;)

nash
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:24 AM
That is more or less what I meant ;)
Becca - you old softie, you! I sense a change in your tone lately. Something good must be happening in your life. Hope I'm right. Anything you care to share - this board could use some good news! :wavey:

CJ07
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:26 AM
I'm not sure what people have been saying in here, I'd read the posts, but they'd probably hurt my eyes, but all I'm saying is that some of ya'll really need to sit down and hush.

Only in the sense that some (not saying an1 in specific) are just waaay to cought up in their own fanatical thinking that they over think and over analyze everything.

If people want to get together to a church and worship, let them. Comparing this to communism? I mean its not that serious.

Also, I think people need to remember that individual behavior is individual behavior, regardless of associations that individual may have. Stop lumping all Christians together with what maybe 3% choose to do. They'd choose to do it with or without religion.

So in conclusion, just sit down shut up and smile :) :cool:

Crazy Canuck
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:27 AM
Becca - you old softie, you! I sense a change in your tone lately. Something good must be happening in your life. Hope I'm right. Anything you care to share - this board could use some good news! :wavey:
Nothing good has happened, although nothing bad has happened, which I suppose is good.

I'm just very... focussed these days. Not that I don't still waste a lot of time on here :cool:

nash
Oct 2nd, 2004, 02:32 AM
Not that I don't still waste a lot of time on here :cool:
Hey - there's something a lot of us have in common! :)

Elvira
Oct 2nd, 2004, 05:46 AM
I don't believe in anything, and I am all the better for it. :)

Actually, I do believe in karma and reincarnation, but no big man in the sky. :p

kabuki
Oct 2nd, 2004, 01:30 PM
I'm not sure what people have been saying in here, I'd read the posts, but they'd probably hurt my eyes, but all I'm saying is that some of ya'll really need to sit down and hush.

Only in the sense that some (not saying an1 in specific) are just waaay to cought up in their own fanatical thinking that they over think and over analyze everything.

If people want to get together to a church and worship, let them. Comparing this to communism? I mean its not that serious.

Also, I think people need to remember that individual behavior is individual behavior, regardless of associations that individual may have. Stop lumping all Christians together with what maybe 3% choose to do. They'd choose to do it with or without religion.

So in conclusion, just sit down shut up and smile :) :cool:

It's generally better to read the posts before putting in your two cents. Informed opinion is better than knee-jerk reaction.

nash
Oct 2nd, 2004, 04:47 PM
I don't believe in anything, and I am all the better for it. :)

Actually, I do believe in karma and reincarnation, but no big man in the sky. :p
Elvira -

May I ask why you don't believe in God?

Elvira
Oct 2nd, 2004, 04:50 PM
Elvira -

May I ask why you don't believe in God?

I thought about it a lot, and the more I thought I found the whole "God" thing to be completely implausible.

nash
Oct 2nd, 2004, 08:04 PM
I thought about it a lot, and the more I thought I found the whole "God" thing to be completely implausible.
So, if God were to reveal himself to you with indisputable evidence, would you then accept Him?

Elvira
Oct 4th, 2004, 05:03 AM
So, if God were to reveal himself to you with indisputable evidence, would you then accept Him?

I probably would! :eek: :eek:

nash
Oct 4th, 2004, 01:29 PM
I probably would! :eek: :eek:
OK then, Elvira. I would like to ask you to pray this prayer:

Dear God -

I don't know if you exist, but if you do, I pray that you will reveal yourself to me. If you really are there, God, I want to know you. If you reveal yourself to me then I will accept you into my life.


Check back with me in a few weeks and let me know how it goes...

Your friend,

-Nash-

P.S. I'd also recommend that you get a copy of "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. Let me know what you think...

"Sluggy"
Oct 4th, 2004, 02:03 PM
Nash - that doesnt work for a lot of people and when it doesnt work, you say its cause they dont have enought faith. Get real..

What a disgusting comment by such a disgusting person, meaning Swaggart!

"Sluggy"
Oct 4th, 2004, 02:09 PM
BTW, just to let you know the Jews for Jesus are in full swing in Paris. they are everywhere the last couple weeks, whereas before you never hear from them. Regards to Nash, who at the very least, seems to know the Hebrew Bible. Like Griffin, my patience for the religious right has also worn thin, but at least Nash seems to do his homeworK.

Elvira
Oct 4th, 2004, 02:28 PM
OK then, Elvira. I would like to ask you to pray this prayer:

Dear God -

I don't know if you exist, but if you do, I pray that you will reveal yourself to me. If you really are there, God, I want to know you. If you reveal yourself to me then I will accept you into my life.


Check back with me in a few weeks and let me know how it goes...

Your friend,

-Nash-

P.S. I'd also recommend that you get a copy of "More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell. Let me know what you think...


I would have to see God himself in order for this to work... :devil:

I don't really see this working though! :lol:

Elvira
Oct 4th, 2004, 02:32 PM
What a disgusting comment by such a disgusting person, meaning Swaggart!

I agree, and what irks me the most is this guy goes around fucking hookers all the time... doesn't that break the Biblical rule of "no sex before marriage" or does that rule not apply to this guy? :rolleyes:

"Sluggy"
Oct 4th, 2004, 03:08 PM
I agree, and what irks me the most is this guy goes around fucking hookers all the time... doesn't that break the Biblical rule of "no sex before marriage" or does that rule not apply to this guy? :rolleyes:

Absolutely! Didnt jerry springer do the same thing? I read that he slept with a hooker while governor or something, and that he apologized so sweetly that nuns banned together and sent rocks to the judge saying he that casts no stone has no sin or something like that...point being everyone forgave him.

Nash - is it only gay lifestyles you object to? What about heterosexuals who drink too much, or smoke marijuana, or cuss and spit and jerk-off to porn? Do you object as vehemently to them? Anyway from what i understand its the bible belt that grows most of the 'liberal's marijuana' so its the religious christians, or at least their naughty neighbours, who are encouraging non-pious lifestyles, n'est-ce pas? Why the focus on gays when you got tons of non-biblical lifestyles when you got a ton of other sinners to pick from?

nash
Oct 4th, 2004, 04:34 PM
Nash - is it only gay lifestyles you object to? What about heterosexuals who drink too much, or smoke marijuana, or cuss and spit and jerk-off to porn? Do you object as vehemently to them? Anyway from what i understand its the bible belt that grows most of the 'liberal's marijuana' so its the religious christians, or at least their naughty neighbours, who are encouraging non-pious lifestyles, n'est-ce pas? Why the focus on gays when you got tons of non-biblical lifestyles when you got a ton of other sinners to pick from?
FrogBurger -

Not at all. I believe that homosexual practices are sin - no better or no worse than any other sin. Drug abuse, pornography, premarital sex, profanity, etc... are sinful as well. The good news is that all these sins can be forgiven by Jesus.

And, believe it or not, I don't single out homosexuals on this board. It's just that whenever I post a small statement, such as "I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle", the entire board explodes with hate, as if "How dare you not agree with me!". It then becomes a big deal. Perhaps this is because of the number of homosexuals on this board who have been made fun of, abused, and denegrated over their lifetimes. That's not my style. I try to witness in love.

In any case, if I haven't made this clear before, I am a sinner just like every one else. The only difference is that I have asked for forgiveness (which I don't deserve - it is a free gift of God to all who want it).

:wavey: Have a nice day!

-Nash-

griffin
Oct 4th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Out of curiousity - how often do you post in threads where sex in general (most of us aren't married), or drug use, or respond to some of the more profane posts around here with "I don't agree with your ___ lifestyle"?

Because while I will be the first to admit that I've probably missed the vast majority of your posts, I do have the impression that you've voiced a lot more disapproval for homosexuality than for those other sins you've named. I think you may be a lot more focused on homosexuality than you either realize or are willing to admit.

Martian Willow
Oct 4th, 2004, 05:11 PM
Isn't telling someone they shouldn't impose their morals on other people imposing ones morals on other people? Religious people aren't the only ones with morals, and they're not the only ones who try to impose their morals on other people. Also, it's in the nature of morals that people treat them as absolute (ie objective) truths. It's just that athiests pretend they don't when you ask them, because it saves them from having to deal with the corollary of objective ethix.

Martian Willow
Oct 4th, 2004, 05:35 PM
How so?

Sexuality between 2 consenting adults have nothing to do with morality anyway. People need to separate the 2.

I'm trying to decide if that's a moral position or just an opinion on morals, but it's making my head hurt.

nash
Oct 4th, 2004, 06:56 PM
Out of curiousity - how often do you post in threads where sex in general (most of us aren't married), or drug use, or respond to some of the more profane posts around here with "I don't agree with your ___ lifestyle"?

Because while I will be the first to admit that I've probably missed the vast majority of your posts, I do have the impression that you've voiced a lot more disapproval for homosexuality than for those other sins you've named. I think you may be a lot more focused on homosexuality than you either realize or are willing to admit.
Well, for starters, there are a lot more threads about homosexual sex around here than there are about almost any other subject. Usually, I post in threads related to Christianity or religion. When I say that I'm a Christian, the boom is lowered and someone starts attacking, usually on the basis that Christians are "intolerant" of homosexuals. When I reply, the entire "gang" gets started on me. Of course, it's terribly wrong for me to say homosexuality is a sin, but it's totally OK for Christians to be called stupid, ignorant, intolerant, naive, etc... ?

Secondly, I *have* also posted in political threads in support of GWB, and in a few tennis related threads - mostly in support of Steffi - my all time favorite. I started out on this board, reading posts related to Steffi. When I saw threads regarding Christianity, I decided to post in them as well.

Go back and do a search on the threads I have posted in (there aren't that many). Very rarely will you see me attacking someone and telling them directly that their lifestyle is wrong. I on the other hand have been called just about every name under the sun on this board for stating that I disagree. Most of the threads that I have posted in were started by someone attacking Christianity or slandering someone who professes to be a Christian (as in THIS thread).

Go back and read my original post in this thread, Griffin. It is a prime example of how my point gets overlooked by those who are ready to attack at any point.

Gallofa
Oct 8th, 2004, 10:23 PM
To the catholics on this thread: I think you might find Matthew 7:1-5 inspiring.